ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- I should have been warned: Some viewers on our summer project were against a gun on the tank. But I did not listen. This video shows what happened and how I was punished.
In Switzerland, every adult man is in the army and has his weapon at home. Maybe this is the physiological reason for my choice. I am no psychologist; I am an engineer. So let's start with the story about How-to build a rail gun or a coil gun. Or how to not do it...
Links:
DC-DC converter: s.click.aliexpr...
Capacitor: s.click.aliexpr...
Thyristor: s.click.aliexpr...
Copper Wire: s.click.aliexpr...
USB Isolator: s.click.aliexpr...
Batteries from Hobbyking
Instructable where I found the diagram: www.instructab...
GreatScott's video: • Make your own Coilgun
Supporting Material and Blog Page: www.sensorsiot.org
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just make a gun that shoots capacitors! You've already figured out the hard part!
You are right. But it would not be "green" ;-)
I love this suggestion! 😄
😂🤣😂🤣
No no no, there is a point.
I'm pro-coilgun.
Don't shy away from high voltage. I've done a lot of projects with it, (been a while since I've put a video online though) Do some more work on the coilgun, please! :)
As other's have said, free-wheeling diode, better DC-DC converter protection, and discharge resistor on electronics. It can help to have a neater setup too. High voltage electronics is the most fun! Half of that is blowing up components! Best thing is... you know when something isn't working, and it alerts you to the fault instantly, no slow painful debugging!
I'd be more afraid of a metal projectile hitting me at high speed (after all, normal guns are deadly because they throw a metal projectile at a high speed) than of high voltage.
Pretty easy not getting shot. Just don't stand infront of the barrel (or behind it if you haven't established the coilgun's polarity) As easy as not getting hit by a train. Don't stand on the tracks. Sure, some people get hit, but the world is probibly in safer hands without them.
GRBtutorials: Only if they hit you ;-) In Africa they shot at me with a machine gun, fortunately they did not hit. But it was a lasting experience.
As I said, I would probably not give it to everyone. But it is the same with knives or cars. They are potential killers.
And what if you accidentally press the trigger? Or move the robot meanwhile pressing the trigger? And let's not forget that you could accidentally hit someone (or something) other than you.
Hi Andreas,
As an electronics engineer I'd like to suggest a few improvements.
1. Use an IGBT to switch the current through the coil. By using an IGBT you can precisely control the ON duration and optimize the firing power( As you said the current has to be switched off at the right moment)
Secondly, to drive the IGBT, Look for an Isolated IGBT driver and couple it with a single chip isolated power supply like the Murata MGJ1 or MGJ2 series.
This will make it extremely robust and give you better control over every variable. You can then control the current flow time in tens of microseconds and experiment to see what is best.
Finally, please do use a freewheeling diode. MUR460 or something would be alright.
Thank you for your advice. I am not yet sure I will continue with this project ;-) It is quite dangerous and costly.
One of the only channels that makes electronics fun without showing the presenter getting an electric shock each time. "400 Chinese Volts, if you know what I mean" - golden!
Thank you! But getting shocked is more successful ;-)
Maybe you could use a snubber network of some sort on that coil. That has to send a huge spike when it unloads.
You are right!
he should've mentioned ElectroBOOM too :P :P
I did not know that he built such a device.
Andreas Spiess I think he made a rail gun🤔🤔 and he blew up components too 😁😁... love your videos though learned a lot...😊
Vaibhav Hayaran he built a coil- and a railgun
@@vaibhavhayaran Electroboom blows up components when just blinking an LED.
Making lemonade from lemons! Nice job of explaining technical issues from an initial failure. We all learn from failures - that magic smoke!
You are right. If we make no mistakes, we cannot learn, because we already know it...
Hey, you defetitelly don't need 400 volts if planned coil current is only 200 amps - coil magnetic force is not voltage-dependent, only current makes sense, so same performace could be achivied with beafier wires and 16-25 volt capacitor bank
Did you try it?
I like the way you make the naration. It has triggered some smile.
Thank you!
I don’t see a sudden disconnection protection for the inductor as there will be a high voltage spike on sudden disconnection of the current. The high voltage spike will be felt across the thyristor
You are right. As we saw in my setup :-(
Ouch... Optical isolators are a must for any kind of power switching.
You are right!
I "built" (meaning bought a kit) a different design coil gun in high school. I think the caps were 330V/800uF in value; 2 in parallel. I don't remember the coil mH, but it was several dozen turns of 12awg enameled wire. The caps were charged from mains, full-bridge rectifier, & a 60W incandescent bulb to limit current. The difference in design... A 1/2" steel rod served as a core for the coil and guide for the projectile. The projectiles were made from aluminum doughnuts slid over the rod against the coil. This was sufficient to propel the rings about 30ft, but w/ much less force than your design. The school was too "chicken" to actually let me demonstrate the device at the science fair even with more than sufficient space. We also tried 1/2" copper tubing but the aluminum worked better.
We all have our "sins". My teacher helped me build an (illegal) FM transceiver. Because of him, I am still in electronics! And love RF.
excellent video. Thank you for sacrifice of all the parts.
This was not the plan ;-) Fortunately, I was able to repair the power supply in a later video.
I’m hoping you can repair the power supply!
I very much liked this video ... not only does it show what to do, but what not to do. For those moaning about a gun, I can only say that it is just a tool ... if anyone thinks that a toy tank will go around shooting people, then they seriously have issues that requires professional assistance.
I too hope I can repair it!
Just make what you like, do not care about what people say. Im pro gun and i think everyone having guns stops people who want to do bad things with it
ok, so the next Episode is a repair story of a discontinued Conrad Voltcraft power supply. I assume that your DMM confirms the built in meter's reading. The repair shoud not be a big deal, Standard componente as 2N3773 and opamps as 1458. You can replace the 2N3773 by a fixed resistor and change the load to measure if the opamps are still working (probably not). Or you first can replace the suspected 1458 and but this could lead to a short Video.
Be happy that your gun did just kill a few semconductors instead some eyes or something like that. Try a water gun. It is also fun but not so dangerous.
klassich D wise words, thank you for the information and taking the time to explain, as I too was having the very same thoughts. Andreas, pls show us the repair of the power supply.
klassisch D: Thank you for your information. I also hoped I will be able to repair the thing. With your info, it will even be easier.
Dean: Maybe I will do a short video about it if it is worthwhile.
Andreas Spiess Record your repair as people like me would love to see your approach. And how you repair it.
If you insted used 2 coils and 4 mosfet, you can make it without the 400V DCDC. Insted you can use number 2 coil to charge den cap.
There are a few possibilities. GreatScott went the way you describe. And I wanted to use high voltage. But I do not know which one is better or worse.
@@AndreasSpiess what I'm talking about is also hivoltage. You use the turnoff voltage to charge the caps. Then you have ałl the energy you like. It would be easy with a schematic, but u can't put that here
1st of all thanks you for teaching us few facts about the hardware we can and can not use
You can do everything. Maybe not all is advisable ;-)
I love the sound of the coil just after firing
:-)
Shouldn't capacitors have a predetermined braking point at the top so they don't explode and just let out the pressure there?
I do not know. But this one did not have one...
You should design and build these for the enemy. Or make some that shoot out backward striking the bad guy shooting it.
Maybe, maybe ... Oh yes of course ... See also: Portable Super Coilgun:
th-cam.com/video/rclLsQ9nyeg/w-d-xo.html&feature=youtu.be
th-cam.com/video/-mjDqp_oWZk/w-d-xo.html
Since a Joule is a Watt * second (J=Ws), and the capacitor was charged to E=1/2 CV^2 Joules E=0.85J and discharged in s=4ms, you expended over 0.85J of energy (0.85J) in 0.004s, which is W=0.85J/.004us = 212.5 Watts! Worse yet, the high voltage capacitor was just shorted through the SCR...even more watts! ...remember what the surge rating for the SCR was!
The SCR survived ;-) It supports quite some current.
Some people don't like guns. OK. That's fine by me, but when they try to tell me I shouldn't have one because they don't like them, that's when it becomes an issue. I rank that right up there with the vegans telling me I shouldn't eat meat, or people from one religion telling someone from another religion that their belief is wrong. No gun has ever hopped up and went on a killing spree on it's own. A gun is a tool. It's no different than a hammer, a screwdriver, a knife, or a car. In the wrong hands, all of those items can be used to kill. People are the problem.
This channel has definitely taken a turn towards the dark side.
Do you see a trend or just an outlier?
Hehe honestly... this video was entertaining for me mainly because he included the fails on the way to the end result.
Dark side is always the best side.
Come to the dark side, we have candy!
on my way .......
Why didn’t you use a diode across the coil to prevent the electromotive force from coming back and eating your stuff up for breakfast?
Good question 😉
by the start of the video I was afraid you had stuck a nail in your leg, nice to see there was only electronic damage :)
This is a toy. The energy is not big. The damage on electronics was much bigger
You can use capacitor housings as bullets, no need for a coil gun.
Exactly!
The capacitor on the board exploded because it was soldered in reverse polaritywhile being manufactured, not because of "Chinese 400v".
I do not think so. My module provides +/- 400 volts. And as I said, the "minus" cap exploded. This one has to have the minus at -400 volt...
Why didnt you use the relais or a contactor in the first place to switch the coil on or off. Also the coil does make a huge voltage spike when turned off. That probably killed the thyristors....
R.I.P. gone hardware....
Good question :-) Because I did not think about it and just did? But in this case, the coil should not create a big voltage spike because it is switched off at nearly zero current.
i use 0.1ohm precision shunts for measuring current.
thanks for not listening to the anti-gun posters. this made an interesting video.
You are right. I could have used sich a value, too. But then the connections are quite critical. And frankly, I did not expect such high currents
Can you see the sign? You should go on without a coil gun I guess :-) Great video... I learned a lot!
You are right!
Damn.. You forgot to time the rated voltge by its chinesium constant k..
what is the Operating voltage of résistor used as divider?if you use a good quality resistor you'll be able to exceed 350v/résistor a bad quality max 100v and worst case under 100v.
You are right. I did not think about it. Otherwise, I would have used 4 in series. Next time I know...
Hey, I am going to build a coil gun too.
I got the same dc boost converter by luck :)
I did not buy the same tyristor because it was unavaible in local store and it was too expensise so I got lower and cheaper model of it. It still works up to 600v and 600amps or something like that and thats enough for my calculations.
I got a old transformer with 1mm thick cable and made 2 coils from it. One is smaller and 0.8 ohms and the other is 1.3 ohms. I collect some 330v flash capacitors, and ordered more from aliexpress because it was cheaper.
Firs to ask, I newer use a tyristor before. I soldered its connections escept the gate. I don't want to blow it :) can you send me a photo of your tyristors connections so I can understand better. Glad to see this video before doing the experiment, thanks.
Pay attention with how you trigger the thyristor. Otherwise many things can be destroyed as you saw in my video. Finally I used a relay to supply the gate voltage which you find in the datasheet for your thyristor.
@@AndreasSpiess I was thinking to use a voltage divider to supply 1,5 volts but after seeing the destruction in this video I think I am going to use a 1,5v battery instead. Thank you for the reply :)
@@AndreasSpiess The thyristor in the link is too cheap how did you find that :D I payed 2.5 times more price for a lower model of it from a local store.
I think to use the dc boost converter with 3S lippo battery should I put a 1 ohm resistor with series too.
Can you please make a video explaining in detail how to make Great Scott's coil gun circuit
This is a topic of the past.
Nice video Andreas, One question: The voltage for the thrisistor to activate is constant? Ich danke dir sehr
Thyristors are triggered by a current, not a voltage. So the voltage is not so important as long as it is capable to source the needed current.
@@AndreasSpiess Vielen dank Andreas!
Why not a physical relais ? I do not get that. And a optocoupler to isolate the two sides.
If I remeber right I used a relais in the end
man! you could just save the damn board by isolating it with an optoisolator. though i'm not sure cuz i just learnt about optoisolators but you could give it a try!
As I mentioned I tried optocouplers. Normal ones did not work. But I ordered now opto-triacs, which should do the job...
Andreas Spiess oh seems i missed that.waiting to see how that opto-triac works cause i haven't even heard of them yet lol. thanks for your answer. subscribed ✌️
Welcome aboard the channel!
what an interesting rocket or satelite lunch system
Maybe a little weak ;-)
How did you change the input voltage of the zvs390v circuit from 10-32v to 8v-16v?
I did not do anything. Maybe I had an older version.
Excellent Job
Thank you!
@@AndreasSpiess welcome !
Next video: Repairing the Powersupply?
Maybe...
Wow, wait an explosion of energy
Thanks for sharing👍😀
True. This was the intention. Unfortunately, it happened also in the wrong place!
There's some interesting stuff in this.
I have a few thoughts on how to improve this sort of project.
First, Don't make it digital. The voltages and currents necessary to fire a magnetic projectile are such that the silicon control components will die. I actually think this is why the ESP board died.
If you're firing an inductive coil with a capacitor, you're making an EMP.
Even if all the energy of the EMP is consumed by the movement of the projectile, the proximity of the digital components ensures that they will eventually fail. If you're board is a somewhat sensitive control component, they will fail faster.
Second, IF you are going to insist on making it digital, use a vacuum tube. They're actually resistant to electromagnetic radiation and interference, and function similarly to a transistor. You can kinda jury rig one up using a burned out car light bulb, but guitar stores sometimes have vacuum tubes on hand. Although... guitar stores probably don't have the needed datasheet nor the necessary expertise to make optimal use of it.
Third, You can make a coilgun almost entirely out of analog components.
Instead of a digital switch, physically wind a secondary coil around the firing coil of the gun. That physically puts an inductive tap onto the coilgun. That physically hardwires a manual trip point into the barrel of the coilgun without the need for a digital sensor. Further, once you've hardwired it into position, using resistors you can adjust the virtual position of the tap if it's not perfectly on point in the center of the coil. I can explain this better if someone's interested....
Finally, if you're in the USA don't do this. We have a large lattitude with guns in the USA, but putting them on Radio controlled vehicles is the one thing that's illegal on a federal level. You will draw the attention of federal policing organizations if you do that.
Thank you for your proposals and warnings. You named a lot of reasons I most probably will not continue this project.
If you are noob, what is below noob like me? LoL Great video
:-))
I don't expect a new iPhone from you... but now that you said it I want to see you try to make a smartphone.
I already have a smartphone, no need to build one ;-)
awesome episode thank you so much
You are welcome!
RIP 2403 - LETS ALL DONATE SOME $$ FOR NEW PS UNIT
I appreciate your sacrifice to science
I still hope I can repair it for a few $. It is an old one and maybe not as complicated as the new stuff...
Hi Andreas.
I'm sorry you broke all those things in one day in your lab, but these are things that happen when you go into new fields of knowledge (Murphy's first law is always lurking!)
I hope you can fix your bench power supply.
See you in the next video
I also hope I can fix it. But it is not easy. The usual suspects (OpAmps) were not killed :-(
@@AndreasSpiess maybe the power transistor? I'm pretty sure you'll just have cheked... But in case you did'nt..
I am worried about your cat being the next casualty.
She did not visit me during this experiment. Maybe casts have a sense for "electric" dangers?
do a multistage coilgun now !
Currently, I have no such plans :-(
best video ever... i love such mistakes where i can learn a lot from it!
Thank you!
damn! I almost jumped out of my chair at 4:43. I was not prepared at all! :). Great video otherwise :)
Same with me!
Andreas Spiess the jump scares are what ruins Mehdi's (electroboom) videos for me.
Isnt the same coilgun than railgun... The two are electromagnétic canons, but arent the same
True.
It’s no small irony that a ‘pacifist’ is making an effort to push his beliefs onto another person. Also it’s surprising to me that more people don’t know that the Swiss are probably the highest percentage of civilian gun owners in Europe along with the Finns.
What did I do here? I was not aware that i pushed my beliefs anywhere. But I was a gun user and had one at home (not owner) as long as I was in military service.
Be cool
Great video as always! If you consider yourself a noob, I am more like a newborn, haha. Also, you can safely ignore the haters who freak out just because some gadget is called "gun". Thumbs up!
Thank you!
Forget the coil gun, the capacitor bomb was even more interesting
:-))
A coil and a rail gun are not the same! Its like saying a pump gun and a sniper rifle are the same...
Thanks for the clarification. I have no ideas about weapons.
Lol im studying to be an electronics engineer in switzerland and want to build a RC tank with a coil gun
Good luck with your project!
@@AndreasSpiess thanks :)
LMAO @ the 'Chinese 400V'... Unfortunately, it's dangerously accurate too!
This device was one of few which actually exceeded its specs. But in the end, did not survive. Many parts do not get up to the specified voltages or currents
Better check your TV, computer and anything that has a switching PSU. Most will have these "Chinese 400V" capacitors in them. And they are not a problem - unless you exceed the ratings, which is what happened in the video. The cap didn't blow because it was poor quality but because its voltage rating was exceeded (the power supply produced more than 400V).
You are right. But usually things have a rating and a max rating which is not the same. And the typical rating is printed on the parts. In this case, the typical and the max was pretty close. And the producer of the converter should have known that his device easily gets over this limit. But I do not blame anybody for a 5$ device!
There are two problems that caused the capacitor to explode.
1. In order to produce 400V from a switching converter, you need spikes of greater than 400V which are smoothed out, capacitor should have been 450V.
2. No load on the negative 400V rail, so it will continue to soar past 400V as long as there is a load on the positive 400V rail. Ohms law will give a suitable resistor value.
Both are noob mistakes from people who do not understand practical SMPS design, only one mistake is yours. Multi rail SMPS designs often only have one rail monitored by the feedback circuit, the other rails are a case of "hope for the best", PC ATX supplies monitor more than one rail.
In hindsight would have been better to ask the electronics community for advice, rather than throwing money at the problem. A quick post on eevblog forum may slow down the video making process, but others would see the flaws in your design before you build it.
@@AndreasSpiess please contact with me. shohag5050@gmail.com
Controversy aside, this video is a superb lessons learned. It ensures the following;
1) Never allow people to say no, it only encourages opposite. Just like when we were kids.
2) A scientist always learns by doing, not just theorizing.
3) There are always risks. RIP your power supply.
4) Transparency is critical to ensure progress is made.
Congratulations on a very SUCCESSFUL series of failures and corrections.
It's why this channel will continue to flourish.
And I still hope I can repair the power supply. Not easy for me...
@@AndreasSpiess A tragic digital outcome that may wind up being very costly. I wonder, would if an in-line fusible set of test leads prevented the damage.
I think there is a difference between rail gun and coil gun!
You might be right. I did not research. I just found these two names for similar devices
Coil guns uses coils and railgms uses rails(captain obvious). That is the difference... But they also depend on different physical laws and the railgun is much more difficult to get working...
I changed the title to be correct.Thanks!
Look at all that you learned. Maybe you should title this video, Diary of a wimpy engineer. You surely can fix the power supply. So you and your viewers learned so much respect for high voltages and high energy and doing more thorough researxh. Good for you. Now it is time to get started on the RAIL GUN!
One blows your power rails, the other doesn't :)
Buy a hundred optocouplers on alie and some flyback diodes. With battery powered HV it's optional, but ideally I'd try to split the ground between HV and Vdd. The other way is to carefully put diodes for flyback and voltage clamping. More resistive paths between the MCU and HV is also a good idea.
don't listen to the anti gunners, lol.
Ouch, you must not switch the thyristor/SCR gate directly from anything that cannot handle the high voltage! Once the device conducts, the high voltage will be present on the gate as well - and successfully blow up anything that is connected to it unless it is rated to handle it. Just look at how a thyristor is constructed and it will be obvious what has happened.
There are optotriacs/optothyristors available which have the gate galvanically isolated (basically have a built-in optocoupler). Alternatively, you can use an IGBT or a MOSFET, in either case the gate is insulated and you won't have this problem unless the device fails.
Always count on the device failing! 😎
If you do, it won't.
Well, yes, but if the optocoupler (whether standalone or one in the optothyristor/triac) blows, there isn't much you can do. MOSFET/IGBT is a bit more risky, there I would probably add the optocoupler as an "insurance" even if it strictly isn't required because when these devices fail, they like to fail short, with all pins shorted together. The resulting BANG will likely take out everything nearby.
Jan, can you recommend one? My optotriacs (MOC3063) have a zero crossing detector, which in this case, is probably not a good thing.
If I remember correctly, MOC3011 lacks the Zero crossing Detector.
Murphy's first law: if something can go wrong: it will do it!
V=R/I ?? Has Ohm's law been repealed? Is this an alternate universe?
Yes!
Asking to myself the same question
Despite the failures in this video it's been one of my favourites. Great determination to get it done and fix the design. Brilliant.
Thank you. I thought it is worthwhile to tell the story. I also had a lot of fun when it finally worked.
GreatScott: builds a coil gun
also
GreatScott: _Why am I hearing boss music ?_
I love your Electroboom moments 😁
:-)) Fortunately, I was not hit myself as he (seems) to be quite often.
A trivial number of destroyed components when compared to the damage done in a typical Electroboom project.
A rail gun is different, it conducts the current through the projectile using rails rather than in a coil around it.
Other viewers also pointed me to the difference. I changed the title.
Just liked the video due to the line "This is what electric dreams are made of"
:-)
Just make a gun that runs on the explosion of Chinese capacitors instead of gunpowder.
Right!
"Chinese 400V" ! I laugh at it so much, because is soooo true :-D
You need a free running diode! Inductive load!
And a few other small items ;-) Thank you!
@@AndreasSpiess Or one big hammer :-)
The coil is an inductor, when the current is interrupted, a high voltage pulse of opposite polarity is generated. Destructive pulse ;-)
And just to be safe, add a TVS diode to the ESP8266 pins connected to the coilgun.
A very useful little part you can use for galvanic isolation is the 'B0505' dc-dc converters and similar. You put in 5v and get 5v out but isolated. It's enough current to drive even some relays. All for a couple of dollars. You can find them and similar parts on AliExpress searching 'isolated dc dc converter'.
As a side idea, why not make a gun that shoots capacitors by blowing them up, you already had a working prototype at one point.
Sorry to hear about the power supply, maybe an opportunity for a repair video?
1. Just ordered a few of these B0505. Look like a good idea also for other applications. I am not sure how fast they would be. But I can try when they arrive.
2. Some other viewers also experimented with caps. It seems to be an explosive device if used the "right way"
3. I hope I can repair it. And I will show it if interesting.
Ohm's law has changed since the last time I used it.
Wonderfull !! Too bad of you power supply. High voltages... been there, done that. I did experiments with car coils (Auto Zündspule), not the regular ones, but a lab version of around 40cm's long and 20cm's in diameter.... also known as Ruhmkorff zündspule. Awesome... and also a little dangerous. The explosion of capacitors... tell me about it ;)
My voltages, fortunately, were much smaller than the one produced by these ignition coils. And I hope, I can repair the power supply. It is an old one and maybe not so complicated.
Man I thaught electoboom was most destructive
Maybe, maybe ... Oh yes of course ... See also: Portable Super Coilgun:
th-cam.com/video/rclLsQ9nyeg/w-d-xo.html&feature=youtu.be
th-cam.com/video/-mjDqp_oWZk/w-d-xo.html
Guns are fine. Ideology is the danger.
I was with my headphone, I shit on myself with the shot sound
Never watch my videos with headphones. Too dangerous ;-)
400 Chinese volt = 4000 German volt from WV = 200 real volt
Hallo Andreas, das mit dem Netzteil tut mir Leid. Ich glaube, es ist nicht schlimm kaputt. In meinem vorherigen Job habe ich das selbe Netzteil gehabt. Ich hatte es einem Kollegen gegeben und der hat genau den selben Fehler erzeugt (ca, 60V Ausgangsspannung). Er hat es aber auch wieder repariert. Es war irgend etwas einfaches. Ich kann mich aber leider nicht mehr an die Details erinnern. Bevor du es wegschmeißt, schau es Dir einfach einmal an.
Vielen Dank für die Info. Ich habe mir gedacht, dass ich zuerst reinschaue und hoffte, dass ich es reparieren kann. Diese alten Dinger sollten ja nicht so kompliziert sein... Werde ich gleich heute in Angriff nehmen.
Ich habe dem Kollegen auch e-mail geschrieben. Vielleicht kann er sich ja noch erinnern.
+svenpetersen1965: Super. Danke!
Hier ist der Schaltplan des Netzteils:
www.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/500000-524999/510075-sp-01-en-Power_Supply_PS_2403_Pro.pdf
Ich habe das gleiche Netzteil und habe es mit Hilfe dieses Schaltplans auch schon einmal repariert. Hoffentlich kannst du es auch reparieren!
Ich würde mal den Transistor der für das Ausregeln der Spannung zuständig ist verdächtigen (C-E Schluss), wenn es blöd läuft knallt der aber so durch das es die Ansteuerung auch noch mit nimmt ... Hoffen wir mal nicht ...
Glad your didn't get hurt! Hope your ears didn't start to bleed from the capacitor explosion. This gun is a real killing machine, you should consider something less lethal.
As mentioned, this was it probably for some time. But I wanted to try it out since quite some time.
You can always switch out to ball bearings inserted inside of plastic/rubber/foam bb's.
@@AndreasSpiess don't listen to the nay-sayers. Take appropriate safety precautions and continue on. If nothing else, these experiments are good learning experiences. I'm sure by now you know a lot more about this subject that you did a month ago. I find this sort of work fascinating.
that cap only stores about 80 joules of energy, a .22 cal bulley has about 120 joules. a tiny fraction of that 80 joules actually gets transferred to kinetic energy, the 400v on the cap is more dangerous than the "bullet"
I can see the NRA commercials in the future. Rail guns dont kill people. Capacitors do. Great we will have to wait 7 days to buy electronic parts now. Ive got a 50000 volt cap laying aroubd here some where. That could be fun.
“It was Chinese 400v if you know what I mean. I know exactly what you mean. Ugh I hate Chinese measurements. They make the hobby so much harder. You just have to know EVERYTHING is a lie. So you take the value you they give and drop of a zero at the end. Case In point is the 7000 mAh 18650 batteries , and 1000 lumen led flashlights. While top of the market US products might give 700”mAh and 100 Lm at 10 x the price.
The entire culture is based on getting one over on your customers. It’s no wonder when any given factory changes it’s name 2x a year. You don’t have to worry about reputation. You just dump your non functional components on eBay and disappear. I still get Chinese parts because they’re cheap. But you never know if what you’re getting is toxic or broken or fake or completely unusable. Many “Arduino” parts are just surplus parts of some crappy device with no support and no documentation an it just becomes trash. And forget sending it back. The retailers know you aren’t going to send it back.
Also, it blows my mind the prices some times. I bought s bag of small motors for $0.11. How is that possible. I’d i sell a hard drive for $100- eBay takes $15, PayPal takes $15 and the post office takes $20 even shopping less than an hour away. By then it’s not worth my time. and they make profit at $0.11 internationally. No less
You can use a feedback circuit using a tl431 ,some resistors, an optocoupler and mosfet to make the capacitor charging stops at 400V automatically.
what about making a repair video about repairing the power supply ? this could be the series pass transistor damaged
1. I used the ESP which should be ok because you also can change the max voltage.
2. Maybe I will do a repair video. Not decided yet.
Thanks so much for this video! It actually gave me some more ideas for safety considerations and saved me an exploded cap in the switching converter (I have the same model!). I'm using a 2200uF capacitor 400V and 30uH coil made of 12AWG wire. I optimized the coil design with COMSOL to ensure that by the time the bullet reaches the end of the coil, the magnetic field is already collapsed. The current peak will be almost 2kA inducing a 0.5T magnetic field for 0.5ms and 4ms until full discharge of the coil. One thing I am very afraid of is if the thyristor gets damaged and becomes shorted - in that case nothing restricts the backlash from the coil and the capacitor will get "recharged" with nearly all its energy almost instantly which would at worst result in a huge explosion. In order to prevent it, there's a diode in parallel to the coil which should offer additional level of protection. Regarding optoinsulation - it is another must! I am using an optotransistor for triggering the thyristor.
Good luck with your project! I am sure it will work with all the considerations you do.
@@AndreasSpiess thank you! After some more simulations i decided to use a 5 stage design with 470uF 400V capacitors. I also learned that encasing the coils inside steel pipe plugged with steel caps on both sides can increase the magnetic field 4 times! I can't wait to see if all the math will pay off once i build it!
Just one more question - I got a bit confused with the schematic. Is the thyristor placement correct or is it the wrong one? The way I understand it is that at 8:00, the coil will immediately conduct. Shouldn't the thyristor be placed before the coil (looking from left to right)? You said it was incorrect but I didn't get whether it's incorrect in the schematics you show or are the schematics already fixed.
I find that your coil is interesting, how many turns was the coil and what was the dimensions?
This was fun to watch although I feel the pain of the failure as I have experienced the same myself with several failed projects.
Humor sometimes is a form to relieve tension ;-) With the help of some viewers, I am confident that I can repair the Power Supply with a new Opamp. There is hope...
Hey Andreas, great video! Many youtubers get a lot of their subscribers by blowing things up, so I hope it works for you too! ;-)
When I was developing power supplies for active sonars, some of the tests were not completely successful and sometimes equipment would blow up and a few times the fire department showed up, but I can tell you that everything was okay because I made sure that I was always behind a wall when the tests were run, and of course the company I was working for was paying for the equipment that was being blown up! :-D
Anyway, stay safe and you should probably think about adding some protection circuitry to any high energy devices, especially if they come from China. A cover to keep the pieces from spraying out and a GDT rated for a safe voltage across the terminals would be a good start...
You as a professional in this matter, of course, would have done it differently and I should have known it better.
But because I forgot nearly everything about high voltage since my youth, I was again at the first step of learning: Unknown incompetence, I even did not know what I do not know.
Now I advanced one step: I know what I do not know. At least something...
It looks like there is a dead diode inside your power supply, electroboom also had the same problem and he made a video on how he fixed it th-cam.com/video/xSXvqrEwssk/w-d-xo.html
He had a short (0volt). Mine has 60 volts. So the error most probably is not the same. But I hope I will be able to repair it ;-)
The scematic will destroy capacator, cose opposite polarity charging
Chinesium 400V LOL Is that like the Chineium 30Amp Motor Controls ? They only Start Smoking at 20Amps and do not burst into flames until 30 Amps ? Seeeeeeee Made 30 Amps ?
Maybe. But price-performance is still very good for most of the parts I get...
Andreas Spiess Yes it is. For the Price We Quivel NOT. LOL
Interesting experiment. Learning about high voltages and the related safety precautions for self and your equipment is always a very useful lesson
You are so right!
You simply CAN'T SATISFY everyone, so just follow your own thought, those with different culture please stay away from what you don't like, why trying to change another person for yourself, how about I change you to please me? Stop that.
I love your projects. It gives me the results I'm looking for without messing my parts 😋
Thank you!
You are welcome!
Do not use any conductive material for the barrel, otherwise you've got transformer with shorted secondary winding. Or you can make slot under the coil, however this not recommended as well.
Thank you for your information!
Funny way of teaching electronics!!! But very effective.
Glad you think so!
Hello Andreas,
as usual quite interesting what you did build and thanks for sharing mishaps as well, even it is disappointing it is always a learning for everyone else as well. Having great respect for you work I anyway would like to mention that I think there were several things causing the death of parts :
1. Underestimating free running voltage of the buck converter combined with "cheap" (aka not existing) regulation circuits build in that thing
2. Using a triac/thyristor instead of a transistor because we talk about DC voltage a devcie needing a negative voltage to clear it's on state might be not the best choice
3. Missing to suppress back voltage of the inductor (coil ) which will have quite "some" voltage
In my previous job I worked a lot with switching power supplys and high voltages. Most common thing was always to have a solid TRANSISTOR and a free running diode in parallel ( usually integrated into the transistor case ), most times BU508A later S2000 models. However these are transistors and unfortunately quite worse if it comes to amplification they have very low amplifiction but excellent rubustness. So what I would suggest to mitigate at least some of the risks :
- Get rid of the relais, at least the "small" ones I saw in your video. Given the voltage and amperage you mentioned the contacts will just burn or even worse melt together giving unpredictable results after a short while.
- Use high voltage switching transistors ( low side switching - N channel MOSFET are more common and usually can withstand way higher amperage ), there are several around especially designed for switching mode that do include a parallel diode. It's important to have a valid resistor between gate and drain to change to "off" state in a very short time to avoid burning energy and heating up the device. Maybe Vishay's SIHG73N60E might be worth a look - 70A@600V should be sufficient :D The beauty of MOSFET is for sure the nearly "no energy" needed for driving them but this is as well the pain in circuit design. High side switching for high power applications is not really common and therefore suitable parts for your application might be hard to get.
- Use an isolating device to drive the "switches", most likely an opto coupler but a special impuls transformer would work as well but rises again the issue with back voltage spikes because of it's inductance and will bring some delay into the equation
EDIT: Surprisingly the pictures on the Aliexpress packe do not have the exploded capacitor ... :D What should I now think ?
If the back voltage on the coil will be dropped by a diode I don't know how this could effect the launch speed of the projectile, it will for sure cause some losses in "gun efficiency".
That way the driving circuit should be safe, at least as long as you have only the ground plane as a common level (the buck converter should isolate anyway). If you want to measure the output voltage of the buck converter I suggest again an opto coupler, that's basically the same any switching power supply does, it's having a analog feedback loop through an opto coupler.
This part I'm writing in german (kind of at least :D) : Ich ha no ä paar S2000 un BU508 ummeliege, wenn Du's mit dene probiere wotsch ka ich die au ä mol vorbei bringe - wär schneller als mit de Poschd vu Dütschland ind Schwiz für die knapp 40km ... :)
BTW: If I'm not mistaken a usual coil/rail gun consists of several acceleration stages, similar to the BlueFire roller coasters (EuropaPark) linear acceleration motor. But it would need quite intense tuning for timing to switch them on at the exact right moment, I guess it would anyway be possible with ESPs ...
BTW2 : In my previous job my boss once told me to unplug one thing as the cables where a bit hindering me measuring things properly on the PCB - well ... Any manufacturer did it that way but not Sony, they did build a ground plane from that ... so some capacitors lifting "the hat", some transistors being even more happy to die ... I was overwhelmed buy the kindness of my boss helping me to find the real error and to destroy the already broken thing even more ... That's life ... :) Magic smoke on capacitors is some times a nice mixture of a bit of P, a bit of C and some B, as well known as "Trafoöl" in the old days.
BTW3: One day I was playing around with a stepper motor driver however I killed a voltage regulator so it did no longer drop the voltage from 12V down to 3,3V but it was kind enough to deliver 12V instead. Because of the was the circuit was designed it did feed back that voltage to the 5V rail of the connected USB plug and back to my laptop - guess what ... It surprisingly survived. Man was I happy. I guess the docking station in the end saved my ass here.
So I hope you can get you power supply back to work in a short time, probably the display might be right and it does have in deed the ~58V and just beeing unable to regulate down because of a dead transistor acting as a linear regulator ... I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that it is that easy.
Thank you for your long comment. I never tried a Thyristor so I wanted to use one. and they are quite cheap compared to its capabilities. Not counting the damage, which I cannot blame the Thyristor for. And maybe I will find a way to replace the triggering relay by an optotriac or so. The relay was not in the main loop only at the trigger pin, so it should not be endangered. And the one of the primary side was protected by this 1-ohm resistor.
There are two versions of the same converter on AliExpress. Mine has a positive and a negative rail. The blown cap came from the negative rail.
Thank you for your offer (maybe we meet once if we live so close). I checked the datasheet of the BU508. But it says 8A peak collector current?
Concerning the rail gun. I corrected the title. I did not know the difference before...
At least I used a USB isolator to protect the PC. This would be a huge damage for me...
Concerning the power supply: I already got some help from my German friends (Datasheet and hits). So I hope I will be able to repair it. I also think it should be possible.
That's your record of killed parts in 1 project? Man, I don't even need high voltage to kill that many things in one afternoon. But you mentioned "years of study", which I don't have. Maybe that's the issue.
Nevertheless, I liked the video. It showed me that my plan to build a coil gun is far, far too hard and dangerous considering my knowledge on the topic.
This was one of my most dangerous and costly videos. You are right, it helps to know what you do. Or at least what to do that only parts are killed ;-)
The SCR gate current output while driving high di/dt circuits can kill a linear regulator by exceeding the output voltage of the power supply. Also if an SCR experiences negative gate current ( starved gate drive) during high di/dt operation this will destroy the SCR.