Interesting Question: Will BT and Hyjal be as perilious for under-performing guilds or are their pre nerf states not as punishing and challenging as the phase 2 raids?
Real underperforming guilds will kill everything but Archimonde in Hyjal and generally will down 4 bosses in BT. Hyjal (aside from Archimonde) is pretty easy and Najentus, Supremus, Akama, and Gorefiend are all relatively light on mechanics and pretty easy to do (although you will have people who can't wrap their heads around controlling ghosts on Gorefiend). Bloodboil is a big step up from those bosses, being a pretty heavy healing check, requiring good tank swaps and good coordination from a lot of the raid. If you can kill Archimonde and Bloodboil and you can get enough SR for Shahraz, then Illidari Council and Illidan are both big coordination and execution checks. So the guilds that are struggling on Morogrim or are 8/10 will generally end up 4/5 and 4/9.
@@danlorett2184 This is a good post, I appreciate the insight from someone more knowlegable. We did Nerfed SSC last night and our clearing cadence was literally way quicker. We made it to Karathress in 1 hour which is definitely a step up for our guild. Didnt even get to attempt Moro because of stupid server issues, but Considering Morogrim is a joke now because even if your pally tank gets graved, the adds die so quickly it doesnt matter. I think my major concern for T6 is we are a 6 hour per week raiding guild (3 hours a day, 2 days a week.) which meant in T5 we barely got to progress on fights we didnt have completely down. This is because we would spend 2/3 of our raiding block clearing to the progression part and barely get any good progression, if any at all. I'm hoping we can clear faster and have more meaningful progression on fights we need time to work on, but I guess only time will tell.
Sounds like they want everyone to be attuned to the next raids. But if I'm being honest, I welcome these changes as a 8/10 guild that hasn't been able to get to the last phases clean yet of kael or vashj. Less stress thinking about being left behind. Edit: also my guild is taking a 2 week vacation from raiding for the holidays...
We have a poor setup, most dds are not good equiped. So the nerv for Vash is appreciated. But the rest wasnt an issue. So why nerv that? We did struggle sometimes with Alar and sometimes with Morogrim or the Tidewalker... but that was due to our poor setup. Nevertheless, I think they reduce it, so all playeres struggeling have the chance to prepare themselfes for Phase 3. You need at least one time the 10/10, because of the attunement. But they are pushing the 10/10 so more people have a chance to get the T5 Parts... We'll see....
The majority of gilds that really wanted to kill the end bosses pre nerf have done so. the rest of the guilds just want to get it done nerfs or not doesn't mater to most of them. Few guilds will raise there fist's in anger at Blizz over this. imo
I'm happy with these nerfs. They're a small band-aid for a much bigger problem: Blizzard won't merge fucking servers so my server is just slowly dying on the vine and the roster boss is by FAR the hardest boss we've had to deal with. So we have a shitty comp and we're carrying a few players we normally would've kicked due to poor play that we basically can't currently kick because they're still better than just being down 3-5 people. With these nerfs we'll be able to actually kill everything consistently each week. Would've much rather just had Blizzard act like a fucking responsible company and merge their servers months ago after it became BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS there were far too many servers and not enough players to go around, but Blizzard would rather just collect transfer fees from half of the players and watch the other half quit once their server becomes a ghost town.
It's funny how YT spills randomly little channels like yours into my starting page 😂 I enjoyed your video from start to finish for your clean voice and on-point facts with no unnecessary extras, great work! 👍 But I'd like to comment my thoughts about the argument you make at 5:14 about the fun in MMOs beeing the act of working through the content: Yes YOU as a (I guess) progress or semi progress raider enjoy the "hard" content or should I say un-nerfed? This content is out for several weeks and you may have this dungeon on farm for some weeks. But there are very many raids that still struggle on getting their 9/10 or 10/10 pre-nerf. I was in a raid with 8/10 that disbanded a month ago and now I'm in a 6/10 "hobby guild" bc they looked for a rogue. And now we are constantly doing SSC 3/6 on 2 days bc these fuckheads are too stupid to understand those dumb ass mechanics (sry for the wording) for the simple reason of "I just want to play". I'm not saying that the nerfs will make us a 10/10 raid instantly, but I am very sad that they did not implement those changes weeks ago (like they announced). First of all this would allow >us< to get 5/6 consistently and not wipe for 2h to be in front of Leo. Secondly each progress guild only needs the thrill of having a challenge for max 4-6 IDs. The ones may only need 1 ID to clear, other may need a bit more. But every other than progress and semi-progress is just frustrated by having 8/10 for weeks and weeks and not getting further. No one likes to repeatedly wipe for 3h to get no single inch further than last week. Progress Guild don't do this, they run through the content each week and the only thing they would enjoy would be a "harder conten" and that is somehting the other 99% of the player don't want. And this is just a dead spiral of not getting more bosses down, having to recruit new member, getting no new member bc we are so far behind all other and other guild offer more and this leads to not having enough dmg to kill the bosses, now start at the beginning. Yes raiding is fun, yes raiding is more fun if you accomplish the content in a skilled group and having at least some level of challenge. But no, it is not fun if you have to grind your head agains a wall for weeks on end only to do the same shit again next week and ending your raid on leo bc your raid did not make enough dmg to kill him and you can't get more dmg bc you did not kill leo. It's like the old joke about not getting a job that requires experience in this job but you get no xp if you don't have the job.
Sure a couple weeks of just the minor end boss nerfs would have been better, with full nerfs coming as P3 releases. If you cant beat prenerf vashj/kt, youre probably not a sweaty guild who needs to compete for world first at the start of p3 anyway 😂 that being said, these nerfs are fine. Get in there, attune your alts, have fun trying to speedrun ssc or tk in under 30min. We wont have hard content again until sunwell anyway. 🤪
It's definitly too much. As was said in the context of healing TK it is going to be an absolut snorefest. I understand the 8/10 argument, but these changes overreaches. Why make PTR the main content? Because thats essencially what they are doing. I keep being surprised by bad decisions, thinking they learned from previous mistakes. Surely this is a communications issue, we need to know just a little so we can plan our lives and not be on hold constantly and they need to know the general wants and needs of their players.
They're basically doing this because they actually want people attuned and ready to go when P3 drops. They don't want a bunch of guilds spending an extra week or two killing Vashj/Kael for attunements AFTER P3 drops. Plus they push this nerf out before Christmas and then they're good to drop P3 late Jan/early Feb.
Thank you for such a quick and solid video on these nerfs :)
I am fine with the nerfs. So many guilds are still stuck at 8/10 and it sucks.
I don't mind the nerfs. Been doing it too long and would prefer to save as much time as possible.
My guild is pleasantly surprised. We're 10/10 but this'll make farming it less tedious.
can you link the wowwiki nerf list in the comments pls
Interesting Question: Will BT and Hyjal be as perilious for under-performing guilds or are their pre nerf states not as punishing and challenging as the phase 2 raids?
Real underperforming guilds will kill everything but Archimonde in Hyjal and generally will down 4 bosses in BT. Hyjal (aside from Archimonde) is pretty easy and Najentus, Supremus, Akama, and Gorefiend are all relatively light on mechanics and pretty easy to do (although you will have people who can't wrap their heads around controlling ghosts on Gorefiend). Bloodboil is a big step up from those bosses, being a pretty heavy healing check, requiring good tank swaps and good coordination from a lot of the raid. If you can kill Archimonde and Bloodboil and you can get enough SR for Shahraz, then Illidari Council and Illidan are both big coordination and execution checks.
So the guilds that are struggling on Morogrim or are 8/10 will generally end up 4/5 and 4/9.
@@danlorett2184 This is a good post, I appreciate the insight from someone more knowlegable. We did Nerfed SSC last night and our clearing cadence was literally way quicker. We made it to Karathress in 1 hour which is definitely a step up for our guild. Didnt even get to attempt Moro because of stupid server issues, but Considering Morogrim is a joke now because even if your pally tank gets graved, the adds die so quickly it doesnt matter. I think my major concern for T6 is we are a 6 hour per week raiding guild (3 hours a day, 2 days a week.) which meant in T5 we barely got to progress on fights we didnt have completely down. This is because we would spend 2/3 of our raiding block clearing to the progression part and barely get any good progression, if any at all. I'm hoping we can clear faster and have more meaningful progression on fights we need time to work on, but I guess only time will tell.
Sounds like they want everyone to be attuned to the next raids. But if I'm being honest, I welcome these changes as a 8/10 guild that hasn't been able to get to the last phases clean yet of kael or vashj. Less stress thinking about being left behind.
Edit: also my guild is taking a 2 week vacation from raiding for the holidays...
2 weeks?!
We have a poor setup, most dds are not good equiped. So the nerv for Vash is appreciated. But the rest wasnt an issue. So why nerv that? We did struggle sometimes with Alar and sometimes with Morogrim or the Tidewalker... but that was due to our poor setup.
Nevertheless, I think they reduce it, so all playeres struggeling have the chance to prepare themselfes for Phase 3. You need at least one time the 10/10, because of the attunement. But they are pushing the 10/10 so more people have a chance to get the T5 Parts...
We'll see....
The majority of gilds that really wanted to kill the end bosses pre nerf have done so. the rest of the guilds just want to get it done nerfs or not doesn't mater to most of them. Few guilds will raise there fist's in anger at Blizz over this. imo
I'm happy with these nerfs. They're a small band-aid for a much bigger problem: Blizzard won't merge fucking servers so my server is just slowly dying on the vine and the roster boss is by FAR the hardest boss we've had to deal with. So we have a shitty comp and we're carrying a few players we normally would've kicked due to poor play that we basically can't currently kick because they're still better than just being down 3-5 people. With these nerfs we'll be able to actually kill everything consistently each week.
Would've much rather just had Blizzard act like a fucking responsible company and merge their servers months ago after it became BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS there were far too many servers and not enough players to go around, but Blizzard would rather just collect transfer fees from half of the players and watch the other half quit once their server becomes a ghost town.
The dads of warcraft can rejoice with these changes.
SSC going to be easier than a freaking heroic dayum
It's funny how YT spills randomly little channels like yours into my starting page 😂
I enjoyed your video from start to finish for your clean voice and on-point facts with no unnecessary extras, great work! 👍
But I'd like to comment my thoughts about the argument you make at 5:14 about the fun in MMOs beeing the act of working through the content:
Yes YOU as a (I guess) progress or semi progress raider enjoy the "hard" content or should I say un-nerfed? This content is out for several weeks and you may have this dungeon on farm for some weeks. But there are very many raids that still struggle on getting their 9/10 or 10/10 pre-nerf. I was in a raid with 8/10 that disbanded a month ago and now I'm in a 6/10 "hobby guild" bc they looked for a rogue. And now we are constantly doing SSC 3/6 on 2 days bc these fuckheads are too stupid to understand those dumb ass mechanics (sry for the wording) for the simple reason of "I just want to play". I'm not saying that the nerfs will make us a 10/10 raid instantly, but I am very sad that they did not implement those changes weeks ago (like they announced). First of all this would allow >us< to get 5/6 consistently and not wipe for 2h to be in front of Leo. Secondly each progress guild only needs the thrill of having a challenge for max 4-6 IDs. The ones may only need 1 ID to clear, other may need a bit more. But every other than progress and semi-progress is just frustrated by having 8/10 for weeks and weeks and not getting further. No one likes to repeatedly wipe for 3h to get no single inch further than last week. Progress Guild don't do this, they run through the content each week and the only thing they would enjoy would be a "harder conten" and that is somehting the other 99% of the player don't want. And this is just a dead spiral of not getting more bosses down, having to recruit new member, getting no new member bc we are so far behind all other and other guild offer more and this leads to not having enough dmg to kill the bosses, now start at the beginning.
Yes raiding is fun, yes raiding is more fun if you accomplish the content in a skilled group and having at least some level of challenge. But no, it is not fun if you have to grind your head agains a wall for weeks on end only to do the same shit again next week and ending your raid on leo bc your raid did not make enough dmg to kill him and you can't get more dmg bc you did not kill leo. It's like the old joke about not getting a job that requires experience in this job but you get no xp if you don't have the job.
Sure a couple weeks of just the minor end boss nerfs would have been better, with full nerfs coming as P3 releases. If you cant beat prenerf vashj/kt, youre probably not a sweaty guild who needs to compete for world first at the start of p3 anyway 😂 that being said, these nerfs are fine. Get in there, attune your alts, have fun trying to speedrun ssc or tk in under 30min. We wont have hard content again until sunwell anyway. 🤪
the nerfs a kinda to huge but i understand alot of shit players can't clear he raids yet
good let all ppl play the game.let's not waste time on trashes
If vashj doesnt MC at all vashj will just be free loot lmfao
Full nerf, big oof
It's definitly too much.
As was said in the context of healing TK it is going to be an absolut snorefest.
I understand the 8/10 argument, but these changes overreaches.
Why make PTR the main content? Because thats essencially what they are doing. I keep being surprised by bad decisions, thinking they learned from previous mistakes.
Surely this is a communications issue, we need to know just a little so we can plan our lives and not be on hold constantly and they need to know the general wants and needs of their players.
They're basically doing this because they actually want people attuned and ready to go when P3 drops. They don't want a bunch of guilds spending an extra week or two killing Vashj/Kael for attunements AFTER P3 drops. Plus they push this nerf out before Christmas and then they're good to drop P3 late Jan/early Feb.
No gameplay