Could Darwin, Australia Survive A HUGE Chinese Naval Carrier Strike? (WarGames 134) | DCS
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ส.ค. 2024
- We simulate a a Chinese naval Carrier Strike Group attack on Darwin, North Australia. China uses more than fifty J-15 fighter bombers from her Type 003 Fujian aircraft carrier, also YJ-18 supersonic and YJ-21 hypersonic missiles from their Type 052D and Type 055 Destroyers. Australia defend with the whole of their RAN and RAAF. Hobart and Anzacs ships, as well as FA-18F/G Super Hornets and new F-35A Lightning II's. Can Australia defend herself?
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0:00 Overview
0:43 Research
4:44 Roleplay & Geography
6:28 Scenario Details
14:28 Predictions
15:54 Battle
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#WarGames #GRWarGames #Type055 #Type003 #F35 #SuperHornet #YJ21 #HypersonicMissile #AIM120D #Australia #China #AircraftCarrier #Aviation #AviationGaming #FlightSimulators #Military - เกม
If anyone thinks that Australia's navy seems very underequipped... it is, our defence aquisition process is pretty bad. Keep in mind Hobarts are supposed to be 'air warfare' destroyers but only have 48 VLS cells, yet somehow it beat the Arleigh Burke (98 VLS cells, plus larger range, more CIWS, 1 extra helicoper) in the aquisition process. Oh, and the Hobarts ended up more expensive than Arleigh Burkes. Sounds legit
Australia tries to keep good relations with china even if the US doesn't like that.
And that's how government works. 😁
@@wastool ye，lots of meaningless and over priced weapons and spending
Because they are quad cells, so when correctly loaded they have 4 times as many missiles. The Hobart class are actually very decent, and the USN highly rates them in direct wargames as being on par with the Arleigh 2’s but not quite the 3’s.
@James McKenzie to some extent, yes. But only ESSMs can be quad packed, the problem is that ESSMs are (relatively) short range. When you compare an Arleigh Burke with a Hobart the extra SM2s and SM6s give it a huge advantage against saturation attacks because they can begin missile defense from much further ranges. The Hobart's aren't necessarily 'bad' ships, they have decent capability with ESSM but simply aren't worth the massive A$3 billion price tag each. Whereas the Arleigh Burke B2, which was a part of the original tender, likely would have been cheaper, and give greater capability.
Just read through comments. You guys want a re-run with:
- Aus having 200 x AGM-158C LRASM anti-ship missiles
- EDIT: Hobarts having 40 x SM-2 and 32 x ESSMs
- Hornets carrying AIM-120D
- Some other bits
Will do this when the proper North Australia terrain arrives in game.
2022 :Royal Australian Air Force 200 LRASM missiles ordered.
yes
Reversing the ridiculous nerf you guys have done to the YJ-21's would be a good idea also. Seriously you've made the most potent anti-ship weapon completely useless.
The f-18 is Boeing, f-35 is a Lockheed project
Dude you are sponsored by China like all youtubers. Where is your merch made? 🤣🤣
As an American, our country would be expected to pour whatever resources we have into defending Australia or there'd be a major upheaval in this country. Australia has stood by us,and by God we'll stand by them.
Cheers from South Oz , not many of the young generation would even know in either country ....sad .
Which is the only reason we would be a target really.. so..
To think China will attack to conquer, only for the resources is very far fetched.. unless we take americas lead and try starve them of resources and surround them with bases and nukes etc... oh shit.. that's exactly what is happening... if America was in China's shoes.. we would have been at war long ago.. if China put a base and nukes in south America for example.. it would be on.. thank God China is not so standover and reactionary eh...
Boy don’t you know your country are technically bankrupt! US$31.4 trillions. and escalating with speed. America are now surviving on borrow time. Janet Yellen with begging bowls in both her hands awaiting in line to beg China to buy it bond otherwise America can’t print new money! Please update yourself with news other then those media in your country!
Also there’s treaties in place. Like the exact reason australia (with the largest uranium supply on earth) doesn’t have the largest nuclear capability is because we signed a deal with America. In exchange for not making bombs America would treat an attack on Sydney as an attack on New York. That was the exact emphasis back in the 60s.
Our own fucking politicians won't even stand by us. They'll just hold the door open for Xi whilst wearing a maid dress.
As a resident of Darwin I can confirm during operation pitch black I saw them landing even 2 abreast on the same runway and their ability to get absurd amounts of aircraft on and off the ground in an incredibly short amount of time was impressive.
Just wait for this years big exercise, they're planning on getting 2com to storm the beaches of Darwin city with 1 brigade operating in and around the cbd, larrakeyah, raaf darwin and robo trying to fend them off, not sure on how the brig plans on doing this but theyve put forwards permits and plans to the local gov to do it in august for pred run
Also as a resident of Darwin, I was there too they went right over me when I went I got a video if you want it😂
As an Australian, I feel so valued and represented haha. Thanks Cap 😊
This is important to one's self esteem.
Oi oi oi
As a Kiwi I'm basking in the one and only time our military has something higher spec than another military lol
@@getahanddown you guys only have 2 Anzacs haha
@@getahanddown how so? an Australian ANZAC frigate has 32 ESSM (quadpacked), the NZ version has 20 Sea Ceptor which are more less the same sort of missile. Also the NZ versions are missing 'minor' things like phased array radars and anti-ship missiles. NZ runs its 'defence' force on a shoestring and it shows everywhere. Even your couple of Poseidon P8s are stripped of capabilities versus the Australian version.
I was in Darwin in 2006 during Operation Pitchblack which ran during the first week of August in that year. The exercise was great entertainment with aircraft, boats and military of all kinds in the area making many loud sounds and firing tracers up into the night.
My friends and I had built a fire on Larrakeyah beach one night and were having a picnic when an amphibious armoured vehicle could be heard approaching from the sea. We kept an eye out and the AAC with a contingent of soldiers armed to the teeth came out of the dark ocean and straight up the beach towards us.
We all stood up and cheered them on as they passed between us.
Very exciting.
After they had disappeared into the dark we sat back down and discovered they had kicked sand into our dinner.
I phoned the military contact number and asked ( humorously ) if they would compensate us for the meal and learned that a military reconnaissance aircraft had spotted our fire on the beach and reported it to the landing party as a datum for their landing point.
War is hell.
Coolest story ever... but the real question remains, did they compensate you? Buy you maccas or anything?
And this one time, at band camp
@@Smokeyr67 I'm sure nobody had any flutes.
Mate, that's as funny as all shit!🤣.
@@stuartgarfatth1448 Back in those days Darwin was a wild, wild place. Cheers!
Would love to see more Australian stuff as an Aussie Myself! Great video guys, you never disappoint, always interesting and very interesting to watch.
Likewise, but we are stuck in our little corner of the world that is just not practical/feasible for the Aus military to be conducting an attack or defense, especially in GR's air focus where the distances don't make sense for anyone to actually make an attack (which cuts both ways)
We have no realistic invaders for the mainland (I don't know of any country that is culturally and historically similar as Aus and NZ and in my mind there is no conceivable conflict where we would come down on opposite sides. We also have a strong history with our northern neighbours PNG and Indonesia through military and aid). The only players with global military force projection today are probably France, US and CN (give it a couple more years and they will have a flat top). One of which doesn't currently like us over a contract (though I struggle to imagine a world where France would attack us), one is signed up to defend us, and the other is our biggest trading partner and relies on us for coal, iron and food (which happen to be kinda important raw materials to run a military). There might be some Falklands type event where Indonesia decides that they want Christmas Island or something which I don't think we would go to war over given the risk of us getting a serious bloody nose over an island with little strategic or commercial value.
Offensively we have the two LHD which is more about troop transport and would otherwise require forward basing for RAAF (which kinda breaks the GR model as other allies would be involved) for a mission that is not defending ourselves or neighbours. F35 range is kinda crap when you look at the size of Australia and we don't really have anything in the strategic arsenal to contend outside of our corner of the world (outside of subs, potentially...).
@43 mins, Ozzi pilots would resort to throwing empty Darwin stubbies from open cockpits if they had to Cap, have no fear theres always ammo... it was actually really cool to hear you guys so happy about how the sim ran and be talking about it before it ended. comments been interesting to read also cheers
welcome to Empire USA @Cap, been this way since ww2, for lots of reasons some of which started with good intent. shame really....
Exactly there are more beer bottles per capita in the NT than anywhere else in the world and I expect some of the knives used in recent youth stabbings to come into play during this war also. Population armed to the teeth with juvy knives and bogan beer bottles.
As a valued viewer from Australia, I am very excited!
Our forces have done it a number of times with Legacy Hornets and F111s as well as the old ships against a full US Navy Carrier group in wargames. I mean even an old Oberon class sub even killed the carrier without detection. Fellow Aussie.
@@rodneypayne4827Classic Hornets. Seppos call them Legacy
About what?
@@markf3229 the video
No chance, the drop bears would get 'em all.
Yep, doubt they know to put Vegemite behind their ears to avoid them!
In WW2 they used drovers to move all the drop bears north into Queensland and formed what would later be called 'The Brisbane Line' which formed an impenetrable barrier against Japanese invasion. Later the government had to hide their existence because they were eating more than half the tourists. Remember folks - Look Up AND lIVE 🐨
Australia has submarines which have done particularly well against a US carrier fleet.
Indeed, our subs have done alright jobs so far
@Rodney 1984 depends who is in acquisition and who knows who and where , follow the money.
Turdbulls son was all over the French sub debacle, nice little pocket filler as is all WHO meetings, G7's G8's all money laundering activities
All 2 of them that we can crew and that actually work haha
Yes they've done well in stealth roles in war games in and around pacific Islands, but unless they were docked in Darwin they'd struggle to be here for the fight.
@@TankedMush I think the pen would be in WA ( Perth ) but the patrol vector would be North Australian waters logically but the subs currently are meant to interdict and intel gather not all out attack I think but with the new ones coming i think they will more dangerous to Chinas fleet which is why china kicked up a stink about it
Ex RAN MK 41 VLS Maintainer here. ESSM being quad packed you only moddled missiles in 24 of 48 VLS cells for your Hobat Analogue.
As a Darwin resident this is extremely exciting and I thank you Cap and all the team for all your hard work. I will however say that RAAF base Darwin can house a crap load more than 20 jets, in exercise pitch black last year there were 100 different jets stationed there at the time and at least some of the jets in this scenario would've been carrying JASM or LRASM. The ESSM is a quad packed missile, if there are 16 SM2's then there would be 128 ESSM's.
These points are all good. Also worth a mention is the point there are dozens of "bush" strips across the north and west. Most would take 24-48 hours to turn into a forward airbase.
Darwin would also have NASAMS3 coverage, which would definitely help the ships in the harbour.
i guess it dpends very much on how surprising the attack is. One would think Australia and others would notice a massive chinese fleet being underway. But he always has to roleplay and logic twist these scenarios a bit.
And he obviously always explains that.
Roger thanks for feedback.
The thing is if they're all stationed in Darwin then the facility will be subjected to the first strike as well, potentially resulting in even lower combat effectiveness.
Forgot to add the p-8 Poseidon which can also do surface warfare
thx
@@grimreapers and no RAN submarines.
@@alanbrooke144 too bad too, because the submarines would probably be the one thing close enough to attack a potentially hostile fleet... They'd be shadowing the fleet just waiting for an attack to launch. Torpedo's would be in the water while the ASM's were still being launched.
@@alanbrooke144 DCS can't run submarines well.
@@brianwright9514 would they though? China has asw capability. If we’re including subs they’d have their own along as well as asw helos.
The Australian Army also have a large base in Darwin, with around 20 Tiger Helicopters. From 2025, there will be 6 US B-52s based at Tindal. I believe around the same time the USMC deployment to Darwin will become year round.
It has. They're at Robertson Barracks all year round now.
This is a very good scenario for how things would play out last year and maybe this year. Getting that many ships at sea at once would be tricky given the availability cycle, but supposing that were possible then there are questions as to whether we’d have enough missiles for the VLS silos.
As it stands the ADF is a single engagement military. One battle like this and the war stocks are gone. Fortunately this has been recognised and we’re buying more, and will be building may more missiles under licence, but we’re not going to see these initiatives bear fruit for a few years yet. We should have started down this road no later than 2010. Hopefully we’ll catch up in time for when we really need them.
The other thing also @grimreapers is that the Hobart Class I believe currently while having a 48 cell MK41 can only equip 40 cells...there are 32 cells in the forward module, and 16 cells in the aft module. However the forward module is only for SM2 and ESSM, while the aft can only accomodate 8 harpoons....leaving 8 cells empty 🤯this is a problem the RAN created for themselves when they modified the Spanish Álvaro de Bazán class destroyer which it is based on. I believe there is the option in the future to utilise these for the LRASM or the Tomahawk. But yeah, for V2 of this fight, if we are talking 2023...only 40 cells
@@JC-uk7tf I’m not so sure about this. Harpoons can’t be VLS-launched. The Hobarts have the usual quad canister Harpoon launchers. There’s a plan to arm the Hobarts with Tomahawk, but I’d read that Harpoon will be replaced with NSM in RAN service. This would likely leave us with 8 x NSM, 8 x Tomahawk, 24 x SM2 and 32 X ESSM, provided the RAN buy sufficient stocks.
Realistically, I’m not sure why we’d load Tomahawks on the Hobarts. In a hot war with China I doubt they’re going to be close enough to anything worth hitting. An extra 32 x ESSM would make far more sense, given how this scenario played out.
Sounds like you boys know like me 😊😊
PGM stocks cut both ways, the number of YJ-18, YJ-21 and PL-15 seem in excess of what China would want to dedicate to this theatre in terms of percentage of overall stock (and possibly with the 21 and 15 more than they actually have).
Similarly it seems unbelievable that both sides have a full compliment of Vessels, missiles, aircraft.
Obvious potential issue of quality and training differences between PLAN and RAAF aircraft and pilots especially with a newly minted carrier.
The logistics of providing AWACS coverage for the Chinese seems to me beyond their capability imo. I don't think the Fujian can launch H6 or YU20 which would mean either an enormous tanker mission from the mainland (or spratleys) or AWACS down time with KJ-600 takeoff/landing for refueling (which would obviously reduce the 60max PL15 capacity)
In real life the F-35s would be refueled and rearmed right off the runway what we call Concurrent Servicing Operations or Hot Pits. The engines would never shut off and a quick turn around of 10-15 minutes and they are back in action.
You forgot the 12 X P8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft which are armed with Harpoon Anti-ship missiles.
thx
@@grimreapers also Australian Army has just taken delivery of seven eNASAMS systems (six missile eNASAMS Mark II Canister Launcher) armed with AIM-120C-7 missiles. Also Collins class submarines have Sub Harpoon missiles. The P8A is currently being certified for the AGM-158C LRASM (I believe it can carry 4 missiles), two more P8A will be delivered 2024/25 so total 14 aircraft.
@@gtpumps as far as i have read we are getting 1 battery this month and another later this year, they wont be operationally capable till 2026 and they say we are getting NASAMs 3, one ADF page says we have Mk.2 canisters and are training with them
If the ADF was aware and had birds on CAP then the RAN would have at least one if not two Collins subs shadowing the Chinese fleet.
Frankly that fleet would be halfway to the bottom about 10mins after the first salvo was launched.
I remember in 1992 being told our subs had taken pictures of the screws on a USN carrier during exercises with the yanks.
The idea the Chinese have ASW that could stop boats that have snuck deep into Chinese waters (60 Minutes interview alluded to such plays) and had taken photos of Chinese installations is a joke.
Now of course outside the SM-3s and ESSMs we would definitely have lost a few shops and assets.
But it would be a hands down massive loss for the Chinese.
Hell against a target 100km off their own coast they'd suffer similar losses with an opponent support 1980s tech.
Hence why they haven't tried it on
Yes they have the P-8. But the Chinese fleet has long range SAMs and and J-15s. Until this battle has played out. Those P-8s won't want to be near this force. After? The Fujian is in deep trouble.
Whoever it was that said Australia lost the battle, but may have won the war, is correct. The RAN is completely gone, but so is the PLN's ability to defend themselves. They are wide open to a strike from the RAAF.
that's not true at all, there are still hundreds of HHQ-9s and HQ-10s left in those Type 055s and 052Ds
Not even just the RAAF... The return route is not exactly great for CN, they haven't been making friends with their neighbours. I find it hard to believe (especially in light of the recent international support for UA) that one of the return passage countries wouldn't "chip in" Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Phillipines, Vietnam?, Japan, Regan, Nimitz... While also cratering their economy while it's teetering.
I can't imagine a realistic scenario where China would try this... even as a feint it takes far too many resources away (and even if they didn't get mission killed) from their primary goals (Taiwan, South China Sea, Strait of Malacca). The RAN (outside of subs) doesn't have the capability to seriously threaten China militarily in the areas that are relevant to China, all they need to do is prevent forward basing of RAAF in Port Moresby, Borneo or perhaps Manilla? to basically neuter the Operational/Tactical capability of Australian military, which they can do with other less disposable assets than their precious fleet of J15 and PL15 missiles (it seems probable that their entire national stockpile of PL15 was spent in this one mission).
TL;DR - Expend basically all of your offensive power to mission kill a military which posses no realistic threat to you, while making all of your neighbours think you're coming for them next and get yourself embargoed and/or entire bluewater navy destroyed by the world/US while your domestic situation is on the brink. Would make the Russian-Ukraine conflict look favourable.
For future reference, RAAF is "R double-A F", RAN is R A N. 🙂
We’ll also have 6 x B52’s based in Tindal by then as well
Not including the others already in the air :) there is a whole lot more you don't know.
@@DespaceMan oh I know.
I was working in darwin during the joint games last year
If they’ve managed to preposition the RAN there, then they’d sure have time to reposition the F35’s and friendly F22’s to the darwin airport rather than Tindal.
B52s. The cockroaches of aircraft
Yeah Australia does indeed have LRASMs for their F18s, aswell as JASSMs. Might also be cool to equip the Hornets with ASRAAMs, as the Australians use it extensively alongside the 9X. Another small note, I'm not sure on which ship, but Australia does operate SM 6.
They have recently confirmed purchase of LRASM not sure of numbers. These can also be put on P8-a and F35. They could also do Rapid Dragon if needed.
I recently read they tested 9x and AIM-120 as ground base NASAMS
@@thomasb5600 200
@@hades0572 not sure, a year or two ago there was talk of 200 purchase. But recently I read about a purchase of about 4 missile types across 3 company’s, I only remember a cash value talked about.
According to my research they haven't taken delivery of the LRASM yet. I also did not see any data on the SM-6 being operated by the Australians.
@@CombatIneffective The purchase of Standard Missile 6 Block I (SM-6) and Standard Missile 2 Block IIIC (SM-2 IIIC) missiles is currently included in Australia's procurement roadmap and will improve their ability to operate alongside U.S. and Allied naval forces against the full spectrum of naval threats. Also, the LARSMs (or part thereof) got delivered about 3 days ago.
Australia’s Collins Class submarines would present a serious danger to a Chinese fleet in our waters - being similarly equipped as a Virginia class with the same combat system.
You’ve only given our Hobart Destroyers a 32 VLS when in fact they have a 48 VLS - which doubles the amount of SM2s In magazine.
Also we now have LRASM capability not listed here.
That would be the biggest game changer here. The Chinese fleet would've been stalked for weeks leading up to this. I also think the p-8 poseidons would come into play a little after the initial attack and could go after the Chinese.
Yes I see a Collins Class parked up out in Darwin Harbour all the time.
4 subs available at any time plus the area they cover doubt it l. Plus add the fact China would be able to send 20 subs and more ships that were in this sim
No 😂
@mitchell taylor for this skirmish we managed to concentrate the RAN and RAAF. Why not two subs
Australia would’ve been a lot more potent if you included all their assets
It wouldn't be much more it could contribute to it. Not with what the government currently only have planed
Australia to not build more destroyers. And refuse to buy long range bombers and no aircraft carrier. Australia in a war like this will be over fast for Australia. And it will be Australian government and defence fault for taking to long to make decisions and not arming with enough eqwipment and right gear. Just want to hope uncle Sam save Australia once again or we are fucked.
Australia could be used as collateral damage too. If the US could save American lives by fighting on another front they will. Australia was warned by experts to arm up. If our government don't do it and makes idiotic decisions it will doom us
@@Nathan-ry3yu Way to vaguely generalise a series of complex topics, you moron💀
P.S: Australia actually has 2 aircraft carriers, and US bombers on permanently stationed in Darwin
With that logic, every single one of the simulations, he’s done, would’ve turned out completely different if every single country was giving access to all of their assets if you seriously think that American, Russian or Chinese carrier group would ever go ahead to head in a fight, you got another thing coming this only happens because the Americans Russians in Chinese never have all of their assets. If you need all of your assets to be a good Warfighter, you’re not really a good Warfighter.
Just another tidbit for you.
The previous government leased the Darwin port to China in a 99 year deal.
Would love to see some converted container ships in this scenario.
why bother? there are millions of chinese spies in every city here! they must be purged!!!
Container ships loaded with missiles? That would really ruin Australia's day.
I work at the port and China has literally no say out there and nothing it's unlikely they would be able to slip anything in.
Yep that's so PLA special forces have a place to work from to take out the airbase and planes before it all goes down
It was the NT government that granted the lease. The federal government can, at any time, and on short notice, compulsorily acquire the Port of Darwin, by force if necessary using the garrison located nearby at Robertson Barracks. The DOD did not object to the lease. So, it is not really that big a deal.
Sure, there might be some Chinese spies hanging out there, but there were Japanese spies in Hawaii prior to the attack on Pearl Harbour. There is not much you can do about that, other than to incarcerate everyone in Darwin who looks Chinese, and that would be an over-reaction because many of them were born here and are loyal to Australia, and many of them came here because they do not like the CCP.
Interestingly, a bitumen road was recently laid down out the Glyde Point, even though there is nothing out there except a beach adjacent to some deep water. Apparently, there is a plan to build a new harbour there to provide some privacy for USMC rotations visiting the top end.
When i was on B-2's deployed to Guam we had a mini deployment to Darwin was around 2007ish time frame.
No one would want to invade Darwin, if the sharks don't get 'em the crocs will 🐊
And the snakes
I’m sure New Zealand will send their one and only frigate and their microlites in to fight for Australia 🤣
Send us some more Whittakers
If Australia falls what happens to NZ.
New Zealand's navy is in a sorry state. It is literally 2 frigates, 2 OPVs and 5 support vessels. That's it. 9 ship navy. Many will say "oh it's a small country", but look at Denmark which is similar in population, and their fleet is 4 times the size of NZ. It's pretty sad as the Royal New Zealand Navy wasn't always like this, in the past it carried more than its weight, but when you elect a Labour government your defence stance becomes reliant on other countries. I hope they have a lot of faith in their friends. The future of NZ is NOT for New Zealanders to determine.
@@jamesg9468 every dollar spent on defence is a dollar not spent on roads or hospitals.
You need to balance these competing factors.
Yeah nar mate, got no chance. We have updated our Emus and crocodiles and the bogans are up to Mk3 upgrades as well.
Maintenance is $$$ for those units.
Bogans throwing empty stubbies, and smashing everyone with thongs😂
I understand their having serious developmental problems with the Emus.
I doubt they'll ever get off the ground.
And we've got Eshays on backorder...
@@SmithandWesson22A Welcome to Sunnyvale
In this scenario Fighters out of Townsville & Williamtown would have been mobilised and parked on station in the area with aerial refuelers … so they could have half or more of the RAAF Fighters on Station ready to respond.
there are no fighters based at Townsville, atleast not permanently, the growlers would probably be stationed at Townsville and most the Williamtown F-35s and Amberly F/A-18s would be stationed at Tindal or Darwin
Cap had pretty much all of the RAAF in this based on current inventory numbers.
I was in Darwin in 2006 during Operation Pitchblack which ran during the first week of August in that year. The exercise was great entertainment with aircraft, boats and military of all kinds in the area making many loud sounds and firing tracers up into the night.
Now for part 2, run the F-35 counter attack on the Chinese fleet.
One thing missing is the Aussie Submarines
Same would apply to Chinese subs - so it wouldn’t help that much overall in balance
At one point we had carriers and cruisers. Now we've got some figs and tin cans. :( This was never going to end well for the RAN.
RAAF (pronounced raff) have some truly excellent pilots. Especially when it comes to low-level insertion, which is a cultural hold-over from F-111s training to carry a gravity bomb to Jakarta.
In a war between Oz and China, the PLAAF and PLAN would do what they wanted pretty much, but the PLA would have a hard time of things.
China builds 20 thousand drones a day right now just for consumer and commercial sales, DJI alone builds half of that or 10k drones a day, and just a tiny fraction of DJI's sales is enough to carry the war for both NATO and Russia. Right now PLA have AFVs carrying 48 swarming drones each, AFVs carrying 24x 50km range anti-tank drones each, MLRS able to fire 16x large drones each, they're exporting robotic tanks that in turn carry dozens of smaller swarming drones, even infantry have backpacks that can launch 8x swarming drones. If PLA lands in Australia, the war you'll fight will be very different from the war you have in mind.
@@vlhc4642 your forgetting that the next major city from Darwin is a lot further than 50km, all you have to do is look at the plans during WW2 to give up Darwin should the Japanese mount a full invasion and fall back further south then bomb the invasion forces from remote airfields.
@@bamafan-in-OZ Or they could get to the next major city the same way they got from China to Darwin, which was not driving. Also I think you'll find WW2 analogies breaks down rapidly in the age of UCAVs with 36 hour endurance.
@@vlhc4642 you also forget that DJI will not allow their drones to be used for military use but I'm sure a lot of knock offs would be made. Australias biggest advantage is its size as it just needs to delay their progress until it's allies are mobilized as when you look at the amount of weapons and the size of our military we all know we couldn't really go it alone against China
@@bamafan-in-OZ DJI is literally 80% of all drones used in Ukraine, by both sides, and if you think a Chinese drone company won't build drones for PLA you really need to get out more. Fun fact, PLA don't use Mavics to drop grenades, PLA uses Mavics as the grenade because they have so many.
Also, if PLA is landing in Australia that means all your allies are either dead or abandoned you....
Australia largest mistake is not building more heavily armed destroyers. Not having an aircraft carrier and not having long range bombers like the b21. And they going to find they wont be able to defend without it
we don't have the personnel numbers to kit out an aircraft carrier. We definitely do need a better navy though. That said, a metric fuckload of missiles and a good air-force would largely be enough to defend ourselves. Australia is notoriously hard to even attack let alone invade
Australia has the same population as florida and is the size of the USA. Not feasible to operate such equipment.
@@iliketea9122 Australia had two serving aircraft carriers once before. They can transfer airforce personal to aircraft carrier along with some navy personal and some Army personal. And advertise more personal for the airforce. 26.7 million people in Australia they should be able to get enough staff for atleast 1 carrier. The old Melbourne was ment to be replaced. Australia navy and air force never had a problem filling position. The problem was Britain denied Australia from getting a replacement you can read up about that online. The fact Australia government never wanted to build one from scratch as Australia never had the budget to do that back in 90s. But they can today. The issue with Australia government is they continue to keep looking for the cheaper option on defence. But not necessary a program that actually can defend.
Australia increasing ADF from 60 thousand to 80 thousand. Why don't they go for 6 nuclear powerd submarines instead of 8 it's actually hard to get submariners than it is for surface fleet. And build one aircraft carrier with F35C and drones
They can get 24 F35C several other aircraft needed along with drones. Move personal around to fill the position and advertise position for the ones they took away. It's not rocket science mate. The ADF has done this before. The problem is the General is a fucking idiot. Pushing pens for the woke politicians we got. He's a yes man. Nothing in his defence review will work without these platforms. Like my grandfather stated who fought right through ww2. Said he's a half a teaspoon. Can't give a full serve
You say Australia is hard to attack let alone invade. Back before 2000 maybe mate. But not today. China has a blue water navy today they didn't back in 2000 and prior. And their missiles out range ours. So Chinese ships don't actually have to come that close. Keeping our aircraft still out of range of able to striking back. You're not up with the reality mate. You must be stuck in 2000 to think that
@@Bobtubeau that's a load of shit. Australia had two aircraft carriers once before with a smaller population exactly half what we have now. Australia was ment to replace the old Melbourne. It never did. The truth is the government don't want to pay. They too busy waisting it on faild projects and putting it in own pockets and they have supermarkets managers working out a defence capability. The Australian government has adopted the same people who was ment to fix the defence last time working to fix it this time. The problem is they are incompetent and have mo experience or never served in defence. They don't know what works. They haven't got a clue on what capability the Chinese have other than a few briefing from foregen governments. They have delivered a defence review with no platforms to make the type of missiles Australia has chosen for defence to actually make it work. The Chinese outnumber us. Out gun us and out range us on all aspects of weponry including options of delivery. The entire defence review is a screw up the Australian government has rejected 3 major platforms needed to defend Australia and bring a delivery platform to be able to strike back. Instead it's relying on 3 undergunned air warfare destroyers and 8 nuclear powerd submarines as a future capability but they can't find staff for as no fucker wants to be isolated in a sub for months. They had trouble finding staff for the 6 Collins class submarines that only has a crew of 59. Australia can find staff for a small aircraft carrier something the size of what France has in service. With roughly 24 F35C a few drones and few other aircraft. Australia don't need Nimitz size aircraft carrier but we need something. It can't defend without one. Australia aircraft don't have range without one.
Say F35A has a 2500 km range meaning it can travel 1250 km out 1250 km to get back. And LSRAM missile give an extra reach 1750km strike capability. But a bunch of Chinese warships 2500km out from Australia armed with missile that can hit targets 4000km away. This would mean Australia aircraft would be incapable of hitting back. It be useless without an aircraft carrier to bring the aircraft in strike range of enamy targets. So why did they dismiss it?
Long range bombers B21 radar stealth bomber has a range of 11000km that can be armed with a number of anti ship missile can act faster and evade any modern radar system. So why did they dismiss that too? And cheaper to maintain than Nuclear powerd submarines that's slower.
Relying upon 3 air warfare destroyers that was basically designed as a large frigate with 48 cell VLS once it' quad packed 64 ESSM for defensive armament it's left with only 32 cells for only 32 missiles of mixture of SM2 SM6 and tomahawks for offensive armament. And 3 ships facing against China 005 class that has 110 cell VLS. With greater number of unit's that what Australia would have.
So no long range bomber no aircraft carrier and not enough destroyers and minimum amout of submarines. Australia is incapable of defending. Just waisting money on weaponry with not the right tools to complete it. Sitting ducks it be like buying a car without it's Tyers and that's what Australia has done
@@Nathan-ry3yu I didn't say it wasn't possible, I said it isn't feasible. They are not necessary. Also, in your crazy rant I think you confused my comment with another.
As an Australian i can confirm we in fact do have Patriot missiles, ive seen the tests
We absolutely do not own or operate Patriot missile systems in the ADF
@@john-paulfarrell2562 So the Patriot missile test while the chinese spy was off the east coast was in my imagination then
@@john-paulfarrell2562 CJ may have seen a US Patriot unit demonstrating their kit in Talisman Sabre 2021(?) at SWBTA. Either that or CJ's full of shit, as most ex-servicemen and women are after a couple of fermented beverages :)
@@Smokeyr67 yeah I’d wager that’s what is was. Thats not to say we won’t get them in the future under our Integrated air and missile defence program, but we definitely don’t have them now.
@Rodney 1984 It's a case of balancing costs and needs - we just can't afford it without raising taxes, and our Politicians need to keep promising tax cuts to maintain their jobs :)
I am impressed you did something like my suggestion :) It was a great battle too and probably accurate. Except for deconfliction and underwater assets. Thanks Mate Oi
:)
China could land two divisions of marines in Darwin and....nothing. They're still 3400kms from Brisbane and 3800ksm from Perth! LOL
Not sure where they'd get the fuel to drive that far as Australians would burn EVERYTHING as they went.
They could walk but if they marched at 5km/h nonstop for 10 hours a day they'd only take 71 days to get to Perth...soooooooooooooo...not overly concerned ;)
They have to get there first. How do you suggest they do so without crossing the airspace of several countries not particularly allied to them? They could come by ship, but would be seen by OTHR (Jindalee), and the subs (not in this video) would have a field day.
@@Ironwulf2000 I agree. Australia doesn't have a huge population nor a huge army or navy but it's a bloody long way away from any country that has large enough armed forces with the capacity to transport troops here.
Even after getting here...then what? It's a huge landmass where a defender can destroy infrastructure forcing an attacker to carry everything both getting here and after they get here...and that's brutal, expensive and hard to defend proposition.
Love the GR videos though. Always great fun and interesting.
Simple. Via pre positioned containers in the darwin port they own. Easy way to get supplies in.
Not to mention the USMC rotation force based in Darwin, would definitely cause some trouble
@@patrickelliott-brennan8960 Yes, jungle, desert and distances that would make Afghanistan or Veitnam look like a kids birthday party to would-be occupuiers
“Scare them away with harsh language”?! Love it Cap!!
A "simple" wargame, shows that the balance of power in the Pacific is really thin. BTW I like them all, keep 'em coming!
As a south east Queenslander. The Brisbane line is being rebuilt. Well glad you "could be bothered"
@Grim Reapers - Another great video Cap! I can see you are always working around the things DCS is lacking the best you can to make it the best scenario possible.
Do the best we can with what we have.
the growler as used by the RAAF is fully Anti air capable but has no gun. the gun bay is where the jammers are located
Approx 2500 US Marines stationed in Darwin along with 6x USAF B-52's and 250 US Army troops training us on Patriot and HIMARS.
why would we be getting trained on patriots when we haven't even ordered them? is the US stationing some batteries in australia with australian troops operating them?
@@gibbo_303 Mark is having a bit of a dream, the USMC in the NT aren't permanently based here, they fly in for 6 months, do a bit of training, do a few local ladies and then fly home for pizza and medals. The "6 B-52's " is a joke (I assume), the USAF is purely a FIFO operation, they fly in , and the fuck off, usually after the crew has time for a few beers and a nap (8 hours bottle to throttle )
also you said ALL the RAN is there.....atleast 2 Collins class SSG's will be there and they are extremely quiet and could sink the Carrier and main escorts the moment hostilities start.
Aren’t the Collins renowned for being horrifically bad
@@Angus1995 thats actually a media beat up that started when there was project delays during the testing of the first sub, they have pretty much the same weapons systems,sonar etc as a Virginia class SSN and are extremely quiet. During RIMPAC a number of times they have gotten close enuff to a USN carrier to sink it without being detected
Sry, forgot to say, no subs modelled in game yet.
@@grimreapers we would need an add on like combined arms but for surface and subsurface warfare for proper naval battles, kind of like the user interface in cold waters
@@Angus1995 When the Collins first entered service, they weren't particularly good (but most completely new weapons systems do have teething problems), but after a relatively short period they actually became some of the best "Diesel" boats in the world, regularly getting "kill shots" on US carriers in wargames and getting away undetected.
Australia do have JASSM missiles according to RAAF. If you want a video, I can release the link to you.
I'm a Darwin local and I thoroughly enjoyed this. I've never seen a battle sim before which made it extra interesting. Perhaps irrelevant but I feel viewers should be aware that Darwin was heavily bombed during WW2 over more than 60 raids by the Japanese. It's part of our rich history and puts the city's strategic value into context.
Many years ago a war game was run involving a super oil tanker (strategic asset) transiting the Timor Sea with a window of opportunity for the attack from a northern neighbour of 72 hours and the task was to figure how many FA-18's would be required to provide a 4-ship CAP continuously for the 72 hours. Also considered was for every aircraft on station, there was 1 inbound, 1 outbound and 1 on the ground. So at any one time, the task required 16 aircraft in the pool to put 1 on station. We guessed at loiter time O/H the vessel of 2 hours, 1 hour to get there and 1 hour to get home. Compute the numbers yourself to arrive at the total number of aircraft to fully protect that national and critical asset.
Would DCS eventually get a global map? Would open up so many mission possibilities.
Neg, it would be too hard to model for a full fidelity combat sim.
@@grimreapers im pretty sure they have talked about it i think it could be something similar to microsoft flight sim but yeah
In theory, they could compile a global map database, but who knows how long that would take. Plus, modeling changes over time (to allow choice of war eras) would make it next to impossible. And even then, modeling anything more than a single theater in a particular game instance would exceed the computational power of even a high-end system.
Now, it they rewrote the code to allow distributed processing...
I feel like you could have something super basic - and download properly modelled regions.
there are rumors of this being considered but if they do it will be atleast 10 years before development for it even starts
To be fair. If this went down the 7th would make short work of what was left before they could go back and re-arm. Reapers should do a follow up of after a failed a attack on NZ, AU, etc what would it look like if the 7th caught them up at sea with what they have left.
Oooooooooooooh, excellent idea. I agree. It would be pointless coming all that way to try to wipe out the RAAF and RAN in Darwin. Then what? Sail back to China and get attacked all the way and then sunk...
I'm sure the SSN Key West plus a couple of Collins class subs would get involved. Plus we would have warned or requested assistance from the 7th who would be probably situated north of the Chinese fleet. Soon as the Chinese launched they would pile on.
@@fryaduck oh yeah dude for sure but I'm just saying like worst case scenario you got put in a position where you had no choice but to get in this exact fight. They never get to leave. Like essentially the next day China no longer has a Navy because they're out of missiles their severely reduced numbers of planes and they have to confront the seventh fleet as they try to sail away. That's assuming Korea the Philippines Japan New Zealand etc don't jump them immediately and that the United States isn't already operating in that area which they usually are. Like worst case scenario you get put in this terrible position the next day that whole fleets gone. Erased from existence, a distant memory.
No guarantees the US will involve
@@Nathan-ry3yu any American politician who decided to not help Australia in this situation would instantly become one of the most hated politicians in American history. I highly doubt that any of them would just suicide their careers like that.
ESSM's are quad packed, so = 192 missiles for the Hobarts, depending on the mission.
50km range. May knock out aircraft that gets in thoughs range or incoming missile. But will have to rely on fighter jets to deliver long range Anti ship missiles as both Anzac class and AWDs won't have enough. Without a aircraft carrier of some sort mid air refuelling would be needed making it risky. I just don't know why Australia don't go for long range bombers such as the B21. You can load up 20 anti ship missile on a B21. Evade any modern radar system so it will be impossible for China ships to detect them 200km away while it unloads and strikes enamy targets by surprise. China would most likely lose its entire fleet before our warship and aircraft even got there.
B21 can even chase China ships upto 13000km. So not only sink any ship they can throw at us but ones who try to flee too.
I thought they would had included a squadron of b21 in the defence review. The decision they made was really dumb. They will regret it.
Australia spending a total 368 billion on submarines. When they could get 100 stealth bombers that would do more damage and strike faster on any mission
@@Nathan-ry3yu Think the $368 billion includes development of the SNN AUKUS ready for the 2040s? Australia would like to acquire B-21s, yet, it need the US Congress to agree. Probably, will happen.
They’d never have that many
Most probable layout would be 32 ESSM 40 SM2 much like the Adelaide class frigates
an echidna is never winning a fight with a dingo. But we dont need to beat the dingo, just commit to being spikey enough to not be worth biting
The US Marine Rotational Force Darwin has been here for years... no mention of subs...
amazing vid!
but Australia has a huge early warning radar setup( over the horizon), so by the time the Chinese get into firing range it would be about 45-50 hours in prior warning(at top speed, unlikely due to fuel consumption but feasible) + human and signals intel+ satellites (Chinese could choose cloudy days), in that time at least 20- 40 or even more us aircraft could be flown to aus via arial tankers
The Chinese also have a million mainlanders already living here in australia so wouldn’t be hard for them to do a bit of sabotage or continue bribing our government
Yeaj we got good surveillance capabilities
I think you missed the start of the video where the Chinese tell the Australians they're coming for an exercise, so this warning system wasn't needed because they told the Aussies they'd be nearby
@@Soundmaster91 i wonder how much of a heads up the early warning radar would give seeing the massive aircraft launches
Yes, LRASM's have been purchased by the ADF, upto 200 currently
I think the US retaliation would be severe - no one messes with our Aussie allies! Great battle sim!
The US would be moving to intercept the Chinese quickly. Darwin houses US Marines currently.
@@CombatIneffectiveyep. We are always holding joint exercises with the US.
@@PhallacEye you sure are. You also let us forward deploy troops, aircraft, and ships out there as well. It is a great relationship.
While this simulation is just for fun, if you bring up US retaliation, you'd have to also bring up why Chinese would attack Australia in the first place: there's abosultely no value to just attack Darwin with one Navy fleet, despite the port is leased to Chinese...
@@citytianyu They never would. It'd be economic suicide. Australias Geography also makes it an extremely difficult task. It's so large that securing it, while maintaining homeland security, is near impossible.
As a long time Darwin resident, I gotta say this was a treat
Has it been mentioned that the Chinese have a multi year lease on the Port of Darwin? Would be a lot cheaper to just buy what they want and ship it from their port in Darwin.
Yes it has
Mate the chinese have a lease on half the country XD, all those sailors and airmen dying at sea off the coast of Darwin will be late on their rent payments to their Chinese landlords XD
Pretty easy to end a lease if the leaser goes to war with you.
A small detail you missed was that the US Carrier strike group in Japan would notice the Chinese fleet leaving port - which is what would give the Aussies time to respond, and the USN would be shitting bricks. Now the Carrier Reagan is in Japan and the Nimitz last I heard was in deployment near Guam, they would certainly re-route when the Reagan's strike group notices the Chinese carrier leaving their normal operations area. The boys at Subic bay would also be put on alert as well as Guam. During training they would be put on alert and launch tankers and start picket lines. Even Guam itself's long range bombers would be activated and be targeting the Chinese fleet.
Yeah, you cannot surprise someone with a carrier fleet, but this was meant to be all peaceful and just a "we are going to sail past Darwin" scenario.
@@nevyn_karres Even then, they rarely leave their local waters anytime they do it is with all eyes on them and USN not too far behind. China is a and has been a shallow water navy, when I was in the USN they would joke about the Russians trying to sneak their clunkers around us, while our fast attack subs ran torpedo drills on them. IIRC Guam also had sub pens too
This starts with the Chinese fleet disguising the attack as a military exercise (and informed Australia of this). Of course in this scenario it would not have just been the Australians who would have raised alert status/mobilised in the region
Don't forget Guam and the phillipines
And Hawaii RIMPAC
This was amazing and excellent to watch. Accurate or not, the work you all put into putting this together is incredible, and even though it's only a DCS simulation it got my heart pounding waiting on those F-35s. Awesome, thanks very much!
No, seriously, this was more entertaining than any of the 200 movies I've seen this year.
Hi Cap, I just realised that you have the Hobarts with a total of 48 missiles, but would they not be able to quad pack ESSM? Therefore they should realistically be able to carry 16 SM2 and 128 ESSM
Yes the numbers don’t add up. 48 VLS cells per ship, and ESSM are quad packed
Your right ESSM are quad packed in MK-41 VLS cells. Personally think the Hobarts would have 32 SM-2 missiles and 64 ESSM's.
My Aussie friend told me 32 ESSM and 16 SM-6, but he could be wrong. If so, that would change the battle hugely.
@@grimreapersyou have many Aussie friends.
You just don't know all of us
@@grimreapers If it's the same friend who told you we're putting F-35Bs on our LHDs then I don't think they like you very much ;-)
Australia is also getting nuclear attack submarines.I wonder if those could be modeled in game.
Subs are never modeled in game. But Australia won’t get those subs for years anyway
@@dexlab7539 Provided everything goes as planned. If real life has proven anything, since when has that ever worked out?
Not going to see them before the 2040’s
I would expect the China situation to be settled one way or another by then
We will never get those subs as they are already obsolete. Autonomous subs are already being built.
@@JDX- I doubt it. China is still playing the game of taking over Taiwan peacefully they are funding big time the opposition party and heavy brainwashing campaign in Taiwan and they did actually gain some popularity in Taiwan but still way behind in the polls for the coming election. But they only invest more and more cash every year so they are not giving up anytime soon on peaceful takeover even Xi himself said it in the annual meeting they plan a peaceful takeover. China also wants to have 4 aircraft carrier fleets but so far only sort of have 1 still getting put together so that's decades away and China only has some 20 old transport ships when they need a few hundred new ones so that has not even really started yet. When China shows off 100 brand new transport ships for armor then I will be worried but 20 old Yuch'in-class from the 1960s??? I don't think that's going to cut it.
Us marines are stationed full time in Darwin on a 6 month rotation called MRF Darwin
Thanks for giving this scenario a crack - very interesting & entertaining - onya, GR!
Australia's submarines are actually very stealthy under water. They would have been shadowing the Chinese exercises. The whole Chinese fleet would have been sunk quickly once they turned aggressive.
lmao
Lol China would be able to hear the Collins class from China
@@AudioJellyfish It runs on batteries under water. It's very quiet.
Dude we got 2 working subs Max and no where near enough ammo...heck I don't even think we have enough now
@mrmoneyhacks5480 meh, that was Years ago before updated tech...nowadays the Chinese will be able to tell
Yes, Australia has a fair amount of LRASM and we are not going to using the harpoon anymore. But not sure if we will have the replacement by 2024. We have over 200. It would have made a massive difference. Great video though champ. If the goal was to take out our navy China won because they did. But in terms of the fact Australia were not using their over 200 LRASM missiles it would have been totally different. We did smash their wing units which could have left room for the F35 to go in after with those missiles and take out their navy. Who knows.
Nah they've all gone to ukraine 😅😅😅
@shaunphillips6160 🤣 yep, my bad.
Australia does have LRASM's (and JASSM-ER's), or announced at least that they were getting them in 2020.
Also, while hypersonics are a thing, it'd be interesting to see if you could somehow mirror JORN coverage (or even satellite's). I can't imagine Australia or the US would be blind to a naval fleet movements and would divert considerable assets to keep abreast of it. My point being, is that I do find it likely that the F35's would be in position. Also, I believe as of now (June 23), we have all 72 F35's delivered. Australia operates the A variant which does have guns (a pittance 180 rounds though)
Hi. RAAF Tindall (yes its Tindall) is 15KM south of the town of Katherine. Oz navy also has some older diesel powered Subs. In exercises with US around Hawaii Oz subs performed well in the past
It was strange that the hornets didnt have AIM-120D. They need it more than the F-35 does. I think there would be an even spread of Cs and Ds between operational squadrons. IF the RAAF suspected any sort of northern attack you can bet they'd have their F-35s at Darwin along with the Hornets
The big omission is the Collins class subs. I know they aren't in game but they give the Americans trouble in exercises so would definitely be in play in a scenario like this
Yes, but so would the Chinese subs too
@@dexlab7539 Chinese subs are copies or direct purchases from Russian/Soviet types. Collins were literally designed to counter these types. Personally I believe Australia's subs would be the only thing keeping China away.
Beautiful mission!! This one was a thrill ride board to board, great flying as always Grim Reapers!!!
There are over 100 air strips close to Darwin that can allow for refuelling
Australia has 200 LRASMs on order, approved in 2020 but a quick search didn't find a delivery date. Also recently approved for the purchase of 200 Tomahawk Block V and 20 Block IV cruise missiles. Our fresh Defense Strategic Review has made the focus on buying long range missile to project power further from the shore. The news reports it as being able to strike targets 1000km away.
Glad you added this.
I tried to do the same with modified links to non-controversial main-line news sites for verification, and the YT bots seemed to have deleted my post.... so frustrating.
Yeh, pretty much anything with a link is being auto-deleted these days.
This simulation has really brought home to me how much Australia needs nuclear powered subs.
I was thinking just nukes. No nuke armed country has ever fought another nuke armed country. Right now Ukraine is questioning giving up all their Soviet nukes.
This "simulation" has really brought home to me just how great a game DCS is, and how poor a simulation it is with people with absolutely no knowledge of modern warfare programming a battle when they in fact have only one qualification - NFI with Bar
@@nevyn_karres no thanks, more nukes in the world isn't what we need. Also, even if Ukraine still had the nukes they wouldn't be able to use them since they didn't have the launch codes. Even if they still had them it wouldn't have changed a single thing
Australia needs nuke missiles
@@nevyn_karres old thinking that has just not played out in that way historically... Some examples.
- Sino-Russian (USSR, CN)
- Yom Kippoor (Israel, USSR)
- Afghanistan (USSR, USA)
- Korean War (CN, USA)
- Vietnam War (USA, USSR)
- India Pakistan (IN, Pakistan)
- India China (IN, CN)
Australian ESSM *utterly dominated* in this battle
found myself humming Sabaton lyric 'and then the flying hussars arrived' when F-35s finally showed.
Sorry, I missed the details.
The ESSMs are quad-packed in each VLS.
I believe LRASM is pending, & to be deployable from P8s too.
Hope to soon have NSMs deployable from ships & F18 Superbugs.
Wondering the game value in Growlers disrupting Red Force AWACS.
Also of have a flight of ‘R-doubleA-F’ F35s staged in Darwin.
Very interesting scenario, you guys did a great job!
You forgot the USAF 67th Fighter Squadron from Kadena Japan that is there part time. So thats a bunch of F-15s. that would help a bit.
Kadena is 2700 miles away from Darwin, I doubt they would make it there in 40 minutes or whatever the mission lasted.
@@grimreapers NO some times they are on detached service at Darwin they have there own part of the base. The USAF just built a fuel storage for there use at Darwin. they are not always there. But the USAF is increasing its presence there.
@@anthonyb5279 Well if you want to get really technical Darwin was also built to handle the B-52. But yes the very obvious presence of a chinese carrier so close to an ally would probably prompt them to undertake a 'redeployment exercise'. The ANZUS, FPDA, and other treaties would be in full effect.
@@Ironwulf2000 Cool! I didn't know about the B52 thing. I think a Bone squadron was out there last summer maybe I think??? We did a big combined service operation last summer so the different services could practice working as one. Australia can't hang on there own, there Navy is tooo small. They need help from allies that would definitely be there for them.
@19:50 "Let's have a look at the Chinese today viewers . . . They have a lot of Chinese guys"
Truly insightful
I love these indepth modern wargame scenarios. A compounding simulation from the results of the former to the later would be the apex of running at max potential of what this sim can do. Thanks.
What about anti-shipping from LRASMs via F35. And anti shipping from the surface ships (Harpoon and Tomahawk). Also subs.
The got approved for 200 or so in 2020 so by 2024 they should have them also they would be using them on the F18s too as well as the F35s so they would been able to use early and late into the fight. @Grim Reapers
One criticism for this scenario, is that it seems you didn’t give the RAN ships any Anti-Ship Missiles. Both the Hobart’s and ANZAC’s are equipped with Harpoon, and in future the RAN will be purchasing LRASM and Naval Strike missiles. These ASM’s should at least divert a bit of PLAN attention.
ANZAC frigate now have longer range NSM the harpoons have been retired
Exciting news about Australia's future navy plans.
The 3x existing Hobarts (48 cells each), 6x Hunter class (32 cells each), and up up to 11 light frigates (16 cells each), plus 6x "optionally crewed" vessels (32 cells each) to basically act as arsenal ships directed by Hobarts or Hunters. Given usual government cuts and cost blowouts we'll be lucky to get 8 of the light frigates and 3 of the "optionally crewed" vessels. All the same, thinking about this scenario re-run with these assets in play is exciting.
As someone who lives in Darwin, there is a Full time USMC presence here. There has been for the better part of a decade.
RAAF Tindal also houses US Airforce aircraft.
The actual count for both airbases here in Darwin for fighters, far exceeds 100, as yearly, we have operation Pitch Black, which involves around 10-15 different nations here for training and exercise. All day and night, for about 4 weeks, it is non stop fighter jet launches.
I live right next to the airport, and I mean literally a few kilometers from the Tarmac, and it is horrible 🤣
We also have emergency airbases scattered throughout that can be used.
Also, the Max compliment for tbe Shandong Carrier is 44 fighters, however, China only has a total of roughly 60 of these between it's 2 carriers.
The Hobarts have 48 VLS cells, and since ESSM can be quad-packed, so they should be able to carry more missiles than they were given in this video. I'd assume a typical loadout would be something closer to 32 SM-2 and 64 ESSM. They're going to be upgraded to carry SM-6 and Tomahawk in the future but that hasn't happened yet
Thanks, that will make a big difference in the follow-up.
No money in Australia to buy that many missles.
@@SmithandWesson22A Are you sure?
@shanerobinson4868 yes.
We can't and apparently womt supply serviceable missiles etc
Love these wargames and naval battles
Is it possible for you all to do a full wartime american CSG vs china or something? Every ship present except maybe the sub.
th-cam.com/video/InwHWqb5_NY/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/qw2vFgVitOo/w-d-xo.html
Us Aussies have not only the LRASM but will also the Norwegian Naval Strike Missile as of 2024, which us Aussies actually assisted in development of.
When i served in 3RAR 1996- 2000, we spent some time up in NT/ Northern Qld with what is now called NorForce.
We were told way back then, that Australia could hold a frontline in the North for around 72hrs (without having Conscription), before falling back for Guerilla type warfare. It wouldnt take a lot to overcome Australia; helped moreso by the Howard era disarming of 60% of the populatikn (i keep multiple firearms, and yes it is hard).
90% of required support would come from the USA, as this country has become too arse backwards to even have somthing similar to the National Guard et al
We Aussies don't currently have access to the LRASM's right now, however back in 2020 we ordered 200 units to be integrated into the superhornet fleet, estimated to be completed in 2026 (was a quick google search, may be incorrect).
They have arrived the other day
It's not the Are-Ay-Ay-eFF - its the effing raff mate or the are-doubleayeff.
"Go away you nasty bugger?" More likely, get a dog up ya!
Mate, we would use lots of C bombs 😂
@@SmithandWesson22A
I believe there are international treties banning the use of nthe C-bomb.
Funny that while he says "just in time" the last anzac puffs away
USMC in Darwin is full time
An interesting facile exercise. Some observations if I may:
1. Australia either does or would have the LRASM by 2024, the RAN has submarines that you can be certain would play a hand in this type of scenario, has land based over the horizon RADAR that removes any element of surprise; plus, as you noted, the DCS representation of certain systems is limited. Also, an operational commander who'd allow such a scenario to start as presented would be sacked before it started.
2. Regarding the "completely" reliant on USA comments by Sock around 51:19 - possibly may seem so at face value but you're "completely" wrong. It's undeniable that a mid-level military power/economy such as Australia will always benefit from a big chad friend like the USA; but, there's more to it:
a. There's an alliance between the USA & Australia (stemming from the "ANZUS Treaty" of 1951, when domino communism was all the rage), which Australia has unwaveringly honoured in Korea & in Vietnam & in Iraq & in Afghanistan.
b. USA has its own strategic interests across the West & SW Pacific that make alliance with Australia worth their while (otherwise they wouldn't do it); &, the cost to the USA tax payer if they had to do it all by themselves instead of having local region allies (albeit smaller powers with less capability/resilience) would be far heavier than it is.
c. Australia maintains its own military budget & capability emphasis, & its Defence policy plus doctrine does not rely upon outside reinforcement (of course will always be welcomed). Frankly, if the USA want to stop doing what it does then no worries. No one's making the USA do what it does other than itself.
d. Australia is a member of the local region alliance called "ASEAN" - that's actually the local region's first order strategic method for avoiding conflict in the first place, & from which there are numerous Defence agreements across the partners. Funnily enough, none of which state a dependency upon the USA. It's not always about you Uncle Sam...but we still love you (mostly).
Spot on my friend
It's always about us
200+ long-range anti-shipping missiles (LRASM) in Australia since 2020
Battle of the Coral Sea vibes
-destroyed naval assets vs destroyed carrier air wing
Let's see a massive battle where "Everyone"-- Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, Philippines, and Indonesia VS China!
yeah nah. we should see US throwing all its nuclear weapons to china. all evil communist chinamen should be purged ey.
The Chinese wouldn't see it coming any way
@@BaseSerpentMessmer Not if Cap has his way, lol.
@vinceelliott4362 true 😆
yeah let watch this motley coalition attempt to land an invasion force on mainland china against rings and rings of naval, air and SAM defenses
No RAN submarines? Given this would be the Aussie go to capability, the scenario is kind of defunct.
"PANG!! Another Chinese down!"
No, that was Wong. Pang is on the other carrier
Underrated joke right here.
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Doesn't China already have its PL-17s and PL-21s in service?
Possibly. There's mention of at least the PL21 entering service, but no images of the missile.
Edit: After some searching it's clear the PL17 has already entered service.