Don't forget to check out the full article on our website for further conclusions and some hi-res images so you can judge for yourself: www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/planing-vs-sanding/ And if you're looking for a copy of my book, you can pick one up here: www.twwstore.com/product/hybrid-woodworking
Yes. The planed surface was actually much rougher, but that's probably due to the high angle of the plan and the extreme figuring. most times a nicely-planed surface will feel like glass.
Generally speaking the hand planed surface will of course absorb the finish more because you're leaving those pores open. Osmo LOVES open pores because the natural oils soak in way better. That's why the original flooring guys using Osmo Polyx generally only sand to 120. When I am doing something like a table top I only sand to 150 when using Osmo Polyx (sometimes water pop the grains although the Osmo Germany guys say you don't need to water pop). For a figured wood maybe 180, rarely 220 because, like you said, you're closing the pores by that point. Your smoothness comes from the natural waxes curing on the surface and your 320 sanding between coat 1 and coat 2 of the Polyx. And you want to apply 2 coats. Again, if anyone ever wants more tips and tricks for the Osmo lineup - please feel free to contact me - that's what I'm here for guys!
Great vid. Unfortunately, many newcomers to the woodworking world don't realize the value of good hand tools. It's great to have guys like you give them the heads up. I love my power tools more than the next guy, but I always go to the hand tools to massage the perfect fit or contour. Plus, many people don't realize that they don't need a $1,000 jointer if they're not doing production work. I used my #4 Stanley plane for many years, and still do, using the jointer only when I have a lot of board feet to clean up. Keep up the great work!
As a true beginner in finish wood working (former framer/builder) I could not agree more with the quality of surfaces achievable via hand plane and there are many a snob out there which turn many of us beginners off so thank you for acknowledging the hybrid approach and not brow beating us like the purists tend to do. Many people balk at the hand planing because of the cost factor associated with getting into it but I jumped in and went with the Lie Nielsen No 62 low angle jack plane kit as a christmas gift as it came with three blade types, and a good how to video. I still use my belt and oscillating sanders when needed or when using ply as the veneer cannot take a plane blade (too thin). The materials definitely come into play for the beginners also as many of us use veneered ply for larger surfaces as we are learning so we don't blow it (which we do anyways) and ruin a big piece of solid wood and cost ourselves a lot of money. Always things to consider but I appreciate you staying neutral and making this an argument/brow beat/superiority complex type video but instead sticking to results.
Great information Marc, This sample was just amazing... I don't think we were able to see the extent of the variation in the video as much as you have in your shop but from what I saw I would definitely go with the plane...
I think what you touched on towards the end of the video explains why a lot of us choose to use hand planes. I like them, among other things, because I simply don't have to sand most surfaces before finishing. And since they're an integral part of the milling process for me anyway, it's not extra work to keep them in good working order specifically for this.
As always love your videos. Thanks for posting. I tend to not see any difference between scraping and planning as long as the scraper is taking shavings and not making dust.
Hybrid woodworking makes the most sense to me. What do you want to do? What is the best (today) tool (for me) to use. As I grow my hand planing and chiseling skills sanding is becoming a smaller part of my journey. Thanks for showing the differences in the finishes.
The more you sand the more you clog the pores. The "clarity from a hand plane board comes from the fact that the fibers are severed cleanly. Wood isn’t hard enough to keep abrading with finer and finer grit. In other woods, raw wood doesn’t polish well. Now if you add oil or some substance that hardens then it can be polished up. But sanding wood to 800 isn’t going to do what you want it to do and it’s a ton of work.
Very useful video! Yes, the handplane leaves an excellent surface except when it catches a fiber, creates tear out and ruins the surface completely! Sandpaper leaves a nice surface and will never create tear out. Oh and the cost of a good handplane and a good sharpening system is substantial, while the cost of a good roll of sandpaper and an array of sanding blocks is manageable. I myself use both but prefere handsanding (when I have the time) because of the high level of control during the process.
Agreed! I wonder what the results would be if sanding to a higher grit. Also what would the results be if you tested on not so figured samples or lighter wood. I would think that would bring the results closer together. Sometimes sanding is just easier once your project is assembled even with the dust and time........Great video
That was a great demonstration. I think you'll find a cabinet scraper will give you an even better job than a hand scraper or even a low angle plane, especially on complex figured wood. But with hand scrapers, it really depends on the quality of the burr you place on the card.
it actually makes sense, when sanding your are pushing some of the removed material back into the wood, averaging the color basically. when planing your just remove an even ribbon smoothing the surface, so no "averaging" of the wood color/grain
How do you deal with planing wood that is really barky meaning the direction of the grain is going both ways very tightly together such as the case of guawngo a hard wood in Jamaica?
I️ have recently started scraping my boards after sanding and can tell a big difference. I️ hope add a plane or two soon. Thank you for the great information.
Fantastic experience. I'm looking at this more from a different perspective for renovating a table finish without having to retort to the usual heavy chemicals (stripper, oxalic acid, white spirit), and this is where investing in a high quality planer might just work cleanly ? Assuming it's solid wood (not veneer) and i am only planning to renovate the flat top surface (not the legs or curves) then would a planer only approach + stain + finish work ?
I have a horizontal redwood fence made from 1x4s that needs a new layer of stain. Would a planer be ideal to get me down to a new surface of wood again or would a sander be better suited for this job? I figure it would be a lot faster on a planer
100% better looking with the hand plane IMHO. And to my eye, the scraped finish had slightly more congrats than the sanded comparison boards. The ray-fleck and shatoiance was definitely shown better with the plane. Of course, the low angle is best for highly figured woods, there might be significant tear-out with a standard bench plane that would leave a more ragged surface. Also, the iron must be as sharp as possible to get the best results. Beautiful wood with any finish. I'd love to see a finish comparison on a similar plane vs sand-paper with a hand rubbed laquer vs a BLO French polish. The two best finishes in my opinion. Then with the depth of finish we could really see the best of both surface prep methods. Just a thought. Thanks for sharing. Also, a good highly figured maple 🍁 would show a great comparison, I'm sure. Maybe even a dark stain on half to see the effects on sanded vs planed? Oh my mind is racing...
so I'm thinking I should get better with my lathe tools. I've had a near finish surface with a few small ridges that I then sanded and muted the depth. Good video.
Hey Marc! Great video! Hard to beat a direct comparison for effect! You ask the other night about focus issues... at about 5:10, thru the end of the video, you were blurry... Not complaining, just thought you might want to know.
Excellent test and comparison. Also, a handplaned surface will hold up better in wet environments due to the wood being cleanly sheered, rather than abraded/torn (however with modern wood finishes I suppose it doesn't make much of a practical difference).
Is a planer finish, , hand or machine, like 120grit or can it be like 400 grit? have Juglans HIndsii, Nor Cal Black Walnut in the yard. So I bought a mill. First I cut down some trees in 2019. Now I'm milling it. And recently I began working it. I just sanded a 60"x16" by 1/2 thick" piece..... It was about 6 hours to sand 6 sqft from 400grit to 1200 grit. And 0000 steel wool seems to be like 1400grit 'cause I can see a difference and 1200 grit gloss is High. I need a planer that that smooth things out to 1200 grit. Or close to 1200. Am I Dreaming?
I'm days away from finishing my first ever project (mostly encouraged that I could actually do it by watching WW videos) and have been really wondering if I should learn to use a hand-planer. My only concern is that the table I'm finishing up is big. 44.5"x88" and the top is only 0.75" thick because that's all I could get for locally sourced wood and I'm worried about messing up the planning and losing too much material. But it's curly cherry and getting that extra contrast might look awesome so now I might need to get some of my scrap wood and start practicing.
I like using planes, but I'm also not very confident in planing very large surfaces. If it were my table, I'd just scrape it with a card scraper and finish off with a high grit sanding.
The Wood Whisperer with you on that! Rails and stiles come out great and other relatively small pieces. Buy the best plane you can afford and get practicing!
Thanks for the fast reply! Also, I picked up the WW Thread Taps to join the frame to the top and did some test pieces so I don't ruin the top. I was literally incapable of pulling any of the pieces apart/stripping any of the threads out so I'm glad I chose to go that route!
I would be interested in seeing the results of a scraper plane because I don't see those used often, but they seem more comfortable to use than a scraper.
I find that If you use a thinner scrapers you get smaller shavings and a finer finish and it is as good as a plane (especially on dificult wood). Thick scrapers leave a rougher surface especially on soft woods, and you can finish with a blunter scaper to burnish after wetting and you'll get a super result. Super experiment but it's imporatant to take into acount that scrapers come after planes in the finishing process and so does sandpaper.
Great video Marc. Agree that a planned finish is generally better imho. Would love to know your opinion on sanding to finer than 320 grit. I've heard that it can restrict the absorption of a finish. But there are respectable TH-camrs who go to 600 grit. Cheers, Gary
so many different grits we could go with though.. 80-100-120. that would open the pores. That is standard for wood floors. I wonder if the sanded sample you show here, is because the pores closed more with the higher grit?
I know this is a older video but I would like to know if using water based dyes would negate the efforts of planing. I love how dyes make the grain pop but wonder if it would create a mess with planned surface. I work mostly with QS white oak and Birdseye maple which are not fun to plane even with a low angle plane but would do it if it makes the wood glow like your samples did. Thanks
Marc, you inspired me to experiment myself. I planed a highly figured scrap of QS white oak with my Stanley 62 then followed with general finishes vintage cherry dye stain. Then I topped with SW precat laq. Results, in 98% of the board the dye did not raise the grain and retained that glass smooth feel. But in a couple small areas of interlocking grain there was a bit of fuzzy finish that the dye highlighted quite severely. Also to get the color I’m used to I would need 2 coats of dye or use toner in the finish. Any advice on how to deal with the areas of “fuzz”. Thanks again for great videos!
I completely agree that a planed surfaced of a razor sharp plane leaves a superior surface that is also faster to get. I only found this out once I tried out planning. I used to sand like all my power tool user friends. It's just better and easier once you know how to sharpen properly.
You forgot to mention something on the argument between sanding and planing. I agree with what you have said, but left out some of the things that are pretty important. First sanding does not have a lot of skill involved where as using a plane requires some skill and knowledge. Also sand paper is sand paper is sand paper just different grits, where as which of the 3.5 trillion types of planes do I use? (It's sarcasm guys.) And set up is completely different. Grab a piece of sand paper and go at it vs. sharpening your blade to the right angles, yet again more skill and knowledge involved, set up the blade in the plane, even more skill and knowledge involved. Like I said, you are completely right about the comparisons and agree with you, but the part where you talk about the quickness of planing and the ease of doing so I thought was a little misleading and you might have overlooked those aspects.
Well a few things. And I think it's all about perspective. If you think sandpaper is just grits, you haven't shopped for sandpaper recently. There are MANY varieties of materials and styles of sandpaper. Some with coatings, some without. Two different grit grading systems as well. Planes, on the other hand, are very simple. If you're goal is to smooth, there are only a few options. And while a hand plane does require more skill, I don't see that as relevant to this test. It's a question of results. If you want a particular result, you'll put in the work to achieve it. As for timing, I can have my plane honed up and ready to use in about 2 minutes. That is, IF it even needs to be honed. And once it's ready to go, I can knock out a board in mere seconds with just a few strokes. With sanding, you have to proceed through at least 3-4 grits before you're done. Then you have to do it all over again on the next board. When it comes to final surface prep and time, sanding doesn't even come close to being as fast as planing. It's no contest.
I wasn't disagreeing with you, if it came across that way I apologize. I would still say that while there are only a few options as far as planes go, that doesn't mean that I would know which one. Do I use a Stanley 52 or a number 4 Jack plane? There are so many options that someone coming into it new wouldn't know what they do. I know there are many applications for them but it's hard to tell which ones are for what. This is a topic that doesn't need to be addressed in this video as a whole, just as a note that it would take more skill and knowledge. I'm sure it's faster for you having experience with it, but for some one that is just learning on their own it's not so simple. I guess I should have said that I'm new to this and trying to learn, and that from what I've learned so far about planing, which is limited, is that it is a more complex thing than just sand paper. You are right though it is about perspective, someone who has been doing woodworking for some time vs. someone trying to learn from scratch with nothing other than videos from TH-cam.
Just so newcomers know. When people say "clarity" they mean a surface that looks like it has depth. Figured woods almost look 3 dimensional on the surface. There is an iridescence to a well planed board. It almost shimmers in the light. A really sharp plane can produce a surface that is almost glass-like in its reflectivity. That is to say you can see mildly clear reflections in it. They aren’t super high resolution reflections, to be fair. But wood prepared any other way isn’t reflective at all because it’s simply not that smooth of a surface. Wood isn’t hard enough to polish (sand) to a high level of smoothness like stone or metal is. With the latter two you can just keep grinding the surface with finer abrasives until the scratches are so small they don’t diffuse the light much and that’s what we call "smooth" which produces reflectivity. Wood will simply crush and continue to yield as you scratch (sand) it. The other issue is that as you abrade it finer and finer it clogs the pores. This prevents it from absorbing finishes as well. The sad thing is that figured woods are the ones that benefit from planing the most but they are the most difficult to plane. The more interesting the grain pattern the harder it is to cut cleanly. Some are literally impossible to plane well. Even with the sharpest high angle blades with the throat as closed as possible.
im a handplane user. and i love them infact i prefer for much use planes than sandpaper, but there are times where planes cant go easly as pronunced curves or shapes, or some finish than are really thick so you will have to sand yes or yes. but something that i notice is that glue cures better in sanded surfaces than in planed surfaces. so when i plane edges that i have to glue i give to the edges some passes in sandpaper. saluts
Not sure if it has already been asked, but I have heard rumors that you "must sand" before applying finish (even with a planed surface). Something about the glossy planed surface not absorbing the finish as well. Any truth to this statement, or is that an old woodworker's tale? Or are some species of wood just more of a challenge to plane, and so sanding becomes a better alternative?
Technically hand planing because it keeps the pores open. Stain is a penetrating product so it’s in the same category as oils. It wants to soak into the wood. So just refer to the video as it applies to stain as well. That being said if you’re staining wood it’s probably not great wood and maybe it doesn’t matter so much how you finish it.
In my personal testing... I've found that sanding must go to 400 grit or else you can definitely see a difference between 320 and 400. 320 will show visible micro swirls that will dull the appearance after applying finish. Of course... not all sandpapers are consistent with their "grit" numbering. So I would recommend 400 grit or higher for this test. However, I love your point on this... and you got me thinking that I need to give hand planing a chance ...especially with figured woods.
I will... I just need to get a decent plane for this. I don't have one. :) I believe the results would be much closer if you sand to 400+ grit. But, like you and Marc said... the time saved is the benefit! BUT, if you have rounded corners or edges... you'll need to sand. But you should take advantage of the hand plane for the large flat surfaces.
But sanding to a higher grit also decreases absorption of finish. I think sanding higher, at least on figured boards, would have the opposite effect and result is less contrast. That's the technique we use to make end grain appear lighter and to combat blotchiness. So on figured boards like this, I can only imagine the difference would be even more dramatic the higher the grit.
I need to run your test for myself, but in my experience the 320 grit figured board looks terrible and the 400 grit board looks amazing. I did not do a planed board however... which may look even more amazing than the 400. I am excited to find out for myself the next time I have some figured walnut ! Thanks Marc!
Get your blade as sharp as possible (16000). Use a high angle (60 degree). Close the throat as mulch as possible. Figured woods can be done. But not with a moderately sharp normal angle blade.
ooooohhh Live or Memorex??? Wow the planed and scraped sure do pop and have more ... definition for want of a better word. Thanks for the great video Marc!!
Great clip! I currently only use cheap wood to build my projects. I hope to step it up to better quality woods in the future, at that point, I’d consider buying some hand planes. Quick question. What was that air gun you were using? I’ve Never seen that before.
You could just get a cheap plane and try it out even on cheap wood. I found handplanes to be much nicer to work with than sanding but that may just be personal preference. As to cheap planes i would recommend a number 4 plane to start with. Those are easily available used or new. To my astonishment i found that even the dirt cheap silverline No4 works really well once it is sharpened and set up properly. Due to the bad machining of the silverlines they take a bit more effort for the initial setup than lets say an old stanley and it helps to flatten the extremely rough sole but after that they work just fine. Just don't even try the cheapo block planes because those are terrible and different from the bench planes i couldn't get them to work properly.
I am considering a planer but am concerned that the standard 12 or 13 inch you get for $300-$600 at the box stores will not be wide enough for most of my projects. I don't have space or money for a planer that is 20 inches are more. What would you suggest?
Don't forget to check out the full article on our website for further conclusions and some hi-res images so you can judge for yourself: www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/planing-vs-sanding/ And if you're looking for a copy of my book, you can pick one up here: www.twwstore.com/product/hybrid-woodworking
Was there any difference in how the different surfaces felt?
Yes. The planed surface was actually much rougher, but that's probably due to the high angle of the plan and the extreme figuring. most times a nicely-planed surface will feel like glass.
@@eduardvaniersel7535 1111111
I need to start building up my hand tool collection.... that was super informative
3 years later and still helpful! Thank you!
This is actually very helpful in helping me understand these methods and their attributes. Thanks a lot for this small but helpful video!
Preach it brother preach it!
haha James! Of course!
That's the most fair and objective look at this topic that I've ever seen. Thanks for the effort, Marc!
Generally speaking the hand planed surface will of course absorb the finish more because you're leaving those pores open. Osmo LOVES open pores because the natural oils soak in way better. That's why the original flooring guys using Osmo Polyx generally only sand to 120. When I am doing something like a table top I only sand to 150 when using Osmo Polyx (sometimes water pop the grains although the Osmo Germany guys say you don't need to water pop). For a figured wood maybe 180, rarely 220 because, like you said, you're closing the pores by that point. Your smoothness comes from the natural waxes curing on the surface and your 320 sanding between coat 1 and coat 2 of the Polyx. And you want to apply 2 coats. Again, if anyone ever wants more tips and tricks for the Osmo lineup - please feel free to contact me - that's what I'm here for guys!
Great vid. Unfortunately, many newcomers to the woodworking world don't realize the value of good hand tools. It's great to have guys like you give them the heads up. I love my power tools more than the next guy, but I always go to the hand tools to massage the perfect fit or contour.
Plus, many people don't realize that they don't need a $1,000 jointer if they're not doing production work. I used my #4 Stanley plane for many years, and still do, using the jointer only when I have a lot of board feet to clean up.
Keep up the great work!
Don't forget; sanding is a chore, planing is immensely satisfying :)
I love when you create these types of video And the planed one was my favorite. Thank you
As a true beginner in finish wood working (former framer/builder) I could not agree more with the quality of surfaces achievable via hand plane and there are many a snob out there which turn many of us beginners off so thank you for acknowledging the hybrid approach and not brow beating us like the purists tend to do. Many people balk at the hand planing because of the cost factor associated with getting into it but I jumped in and went with the Lie Nielsen No 62 low angle jack plane kit as a christmas gift as it came with three blade types, and a good how to video. I still use my belt and oscillating sanders when needed or when using ply as the veneer cannot take a plane blade (too thin). The materials definitely come into play for the beginners also as many of us use veneered ply for larger surfaces as we are learning so we don't blow it (which we do anyways) and ruin a big piece of solid wood and cost ourselves a lot of money. Always things to consider but I appreciate you staying neutral and making this an argument/brow beat/superiority complex type video but instead sticking to results.
Always interesting and informative videos! Thank you very much for sharing!
First video i clicked on after searching and its all i wanted see an hear. Thanks so much!
Thanks for doing this test. It's really impressive to see the difference.
From Quebec, Canada, Thanks for all your video. It's helpful
Answered EXACTLY the questions I had about sanding. Thank you!
Great test! Very informative.
Great information Marc, This sample was just amazing... I don't think we were able to see the extent of the variation in the video as much as you have in your shop but from what I saw I would definitely go with the plane...
Wow, gorgeous wood
I think what you touched on towards the end of the video explains why a lot of us choose to use hand planes. I like them, among other things, because I simply don't have to sand most surfaces before finishing. And since they're an integral part of the milling process for me anyway, it's not extra work to keep them in good working order specifically for this.
As always love your videos. Thanks for posting. I tend to not see any difference between scraping and planning as long as the scraper is taking shavings and not making dust.
Very good experiment!
First Honda, and now big plane is in your pocket. Good for you.
Hybrid woodworking makes the most sense to me. What do you want to do? What is the best (today) tool (for me) to use. As I grow my hand planing and chiseling skills sanding is becoming a smaller part of my journey. Thanks for showing the differences in the finishes.
Wow, that was eye opening. thanks for sharing. gonna have to invest in a good plane and start using it more
Good job Marc!
What about if you sand up to 800 grit?
The more you sand the more you clog the pores. The "clarity from a hand plane board comes from the fact that the fibers are severed cleanly. Wood isn’t hard enough to keep abrading with finer and finer grit. In other woods, raw wood doesn’t polish well. Now if you add oil or some substance that hardens then it can be polished up. But sanding wood to 800 isn’t going to do what you want it to do and it’s a ton of work.
Very useful video! Yes, the handplane leaves an excellent surface except when it catches a fiber, creates tear out and ruins the surface completely! Sandpaper leaves a nice surface and will never create tear out. Oh and the cost of a good handplane and a good sharpening system is substantial, while the cost of a good roll of sandpaper and an array of sanding blocks is manageable. I myself use both but prefere handsanding (when I have the time) because of the high level of control during the process.
Now you’re green screening powermatic on your t-shirt too?!!! Good video. Thank you
Agreed! I wonder what the results would be if sanding to a higher grit. Also what would the results be if you tested on not so figured samples or lighter wood. I would think that would bring the results closer together. Sometimes sanding is just easier once your project is assembled even with the dust and time........Great video
Good information. It was very interesting to see the differences. Thanks for sharing!
This was something I thought about the end result plane vs. sandpaper and I’m with you a good sharp blade like you said. Marc this was a awesome test.
thanks for the demo, really nice grain, severed is my favorite...
That was a great demonstration. I think you'll find a cabinet scraper will give you an even better job than a hand scraper or even a low angle plane, especially on complex figured wood. But with hand scrapers, it really depends on the quality of the burr you place on the card.
It is not true that a scraper is better than a planer or sanding. All three can offer a super smooth finish and it is preference of the craftsman.
it actually makes sense, when sanding your are pushing some of the removed material back into the wood, averaging the color basically. when planing your just remove an even ribbon smoothing the surface, so no "averaging" of the wood color/grain
It would be difficult to not like any of these. What fantastic pieces of wood :) The planed does look a bit better though to me ॐ
Very beautiful wood structure! What is it?
How do you deal with planing wood that is really barky meaning the direction of the grain is going both ways very tightly together such as the case of guawngo a hard wood in Jamaica?
Basically what you saw here. Best you can do is go with a high angle and a very sharp blade.
I️ have recently started scraping my boards after sanding and can tell a big difference. I️ hope add a plane or two soon. Thank you for the great information.
You have a scraper, but not a plane? I can't really put a finger on it but that feels so backwards.
Love the mark on your nose Marc. I get that after sanding as well :)
I get those lines from the scraper when the burr is uneven or dull. When it's sharp it doesn't do that.
Amazing difference - it is the Plane finish for me. Thank you for making this video - very informative.
Incredible comparison. Thanks. I don't like actually doing this kind of experiment so I like the fact that you did it for me. Thanks again.
Great video !!!! Hand plane, definitely !!!!
Fantastic experience. I'm looking at this more from a different perspective for renovating a table finish without having to retort to the usual heavy chemicals (stripper, oxalic acid, white spirit), and this is where investing in a high quality planer might just work cleanly ? Assuming it's solid wood (not veneer) and i am only planning to renovate the flat top surface (not the legs or curves) then would a planer only approach + stain + finish work ?
Excellent video! Thank you so much !!
Bravo Marco!
That wood is AMAZING! What kind of wood is it anyway? I don't think I heard you mention it...
Walnut from Goby Walnut.
Thanks for asking! I was wondering the same thing.
Thanks Mark. Informative video, would have never known.
Nice comparison. Nice to watch.
Greetings from Germany.Arne
I have a horizontal redwood fence made from 1x4s that needs a new layer of stain. Would a planer be ideal to get me down to a new surface of wood again or would a sander be better suited for this job? I figure it would be a lot faster on a planer
100% better looking with the hand plane IMHO. And to my eye, the scraped finish had slightly more congrats than the sanded comparison boards. The ray-fleck and shatoiance was definitely shown better with the plane. Of course, the low angle is best for highly figured woods, there might be significant tear-out with a standard bench plane that would leave a more ragged surface. Also, the iron must be as sharp as possible to get the best results. Beautiful wood with any finish. I'd love to see a finish comparison on a similar plane vs sand-paper with a hand rubbed laquer vs a BLO French polish. The two best finishes in my opinion. Then with the depth of finish we could really see the best of both surface prep methods. Just a thought.
Thanks for sharing. Also, a good highly figured maple 🍁 would show a great comparison, I'm sure. Maybe even a dark stain on half to see the effects on sanded vs planed? Oh my mind is racing...
Thanks for the insight Marc! 👍👊
i think it would have been interesting using one of those micro magnifying equipment to examine the surface better.
I am probably the only one that did not like the wood, but liked the test!
Nope ur not alone
Very informative, I think it’s time to get myself a good quality hand plane.
so I'm thinking I should get better with my lathe tools. I've had a near finish surface with a few small ridges that I then sanded and muted the depth. Good video.
Hey Marc! Great video! Hard to beat a direct comparison for effect! You ask the other night about focus issues... at about 5:10, thru the end of the video, you were blurry... Not complaining, just thought you might want to know.
Thanks. It's a necessary evil at this point. :)
that was good information. thanks for the video
Excellent test and comparison. Also, a handplaned surface will hold up better in wet environments due to the wood being cleanly sheered, rather than abraded/torn (however with modern wood finishes I suppose it doesn't make much of a practical difference).
Very useful. Thank you!
Is a planer finish, , hand or machine, like 120grit or can it be like 400 grit? have Juglans HIndsii, Nor Cal Black Walnut in the yard. So I bought a mill. First I cut down some trees in 2019. Now I'm milling it. And recently I began working it. I just sanded a 60"x16" by 1/2 thick" piece..... It was about 6 hours to sand 6 sqft from 400grit to 1200 grit. And 0000 steel wool seems to be like 1400grit 'cause I can see a difference and 1200 grit gloss is High. I need a planer that that smooth things out to 1200 grit. Or close to 1200. Am I Dreaming?
Thanks for this vidéo, good test, very helpfull
I'm days away from finishing my first ever project (mostly encouraged that I could actually do it by watching WW videos) and have been really wondering if I should learn to use a hand-planer. My only concern is that the table I'm finishing up is big. 44.5"x88" and the top is only 0.75" thick because that's all I could get for locally sourced wood and I'm worried about messing up the planning and losing too much material. But it's curly cherry and getting that extra contrast might look awesome so now I might need to get some of my scrap wood and start practicing.
I like using planes, but I'm also not very confident in planing very large surfaces. If it were my table, I'd just scrape it with a card scraper and finish off with a high grit sanding.
The Wood Whisperer with you on that! Rails and stiles come out great and other relatively small pieces. Buy the best plane you can afford and get practicing!
Thanks for the fast reply! Also, I picked up the WW Thread Taps to join the frame to the top and did some test pieces so I don't ruin the top. I was literally incapable of pulling any of the pieces apart/stripping any of the threads out so I'm glad I chose to go that route!
excellent thank you. What is the species of wood?
Great Video
I would be interested in seeing the results of a scraper plane because I don't see those used often, but they seem more comfortable to use than a scraper.
Great video, thank you!
Great idea for a comparison. You talked about the difference in look, but what about the difference in touch/feel after the finish has cured?
Nice scientific comparison. Thanks for taking the time to make it.
That was cool, Marc. Thanks!
I find that If you use a thinner scrapers you get smaller shavings and a finer finish and it is as good as a plane (especially on dificult wood). Thick scrapers leave a rougher surface especially on soft woods, and you can finish with a blunter scaper to burnish after wetting and you'll get a super result. Super experiment but it's imporatant to take into acount that scrapers come after planes in the finishing process and so does sandpaper.
Would it be okay to use a bench planer to run my unfinished hardwood floors through and then stain?
great video
Great video Marc. Agree that a planned finish is generally better imho. Would love to know your opinion on sanding to finer than 320 grit. I've heard that it can restrict the absorption of a finish. But there are respectable TH-camrs who go to 600 grit. Cheers, Gary
What happens when you put the boards through a power thickness planer? Do you get the same smooth finish as a hand plane?
Awesome, Marc! Thank you! This was a very cool and informative video.
so many different grits we could go with though.. 80-100-120. that would open the pores. That is standard for wood floors. I wonder if the sanded sample you show here, is because the pores closed more with the higher grit?
I know this is a older video but I would like to know if using water based dyes would negate the efforts of planing. I love how dyes make the grain pop but wonder if it would create a mess with planned surface. I work mostly with QS white oak and Birdseye maple which are not fun to plane even with a low angle plane but would do it if it makes the wood glow like your samples did. Thanks
Marc, you inspired me to experiment myself. I planed a highly figured scrap of QS white oak with my Stanley 62 then followed with general finishes vintage cherry dye stain. Then I topped with SW precat laq. Results, in 98% of the board the dye did not raise the grain and retained that glass smooth feel. But in a couple small areas of interlocking grain there was a bit of fuzzy finish that the dye highlighted quite severely. Also to get the color I’m used to I would need 2 coats of dye or use toner in the finish. Any advice on how to deal with the areas of “fuzz”. Thanks again for great videos!
Difficult woods typically need high angle blades not low angle. Like 60 degree high.
How about the Hitachi hydraulic planer that Ishitani uses? Would that be considered a power tool?
This was fantastic! Thank you!
I completely agree that a planed surfaced of a razor sharp plane leaves a superior surface that is also faster to get. I only found this out once I tried out planning. I used to sand like all my power tool user friends. It's just better and easier once you know how to sharpen properly.
You forgot to mention something on the argument between sanding and planing. I agree with what you have said, but left out some of the things that are pretty important. First sanding does not have a lot of skill involved where as using a plane requires some skill and knowledge. Also sand paper is sand paper is sand paper just different grits, where as which of the 3.5 trillion types of planes do I use? (It's sarcasm guys.) And set up is completely different. Grab a piece of sand paper and go at it vs. sharpening your blade to the right angles, yet again more skill and knowledge involved, set up the blade in the plane, even more skill and knowledge involved. Like I said, you are completely right about the comparisons and agree with you, but the part where you talk about the quickness of planing and the ease of doing so I thought was a little misleading and you might have overlooked those aspects.
Well a few things. And I think it's all about perspective. If you think sandpaper is just grits, you haven't shopped for sandpaper recently. There are MANY varieties of materials and styles of sandpaper. Some with coatings, some without. Two different grit grading systems as well. Planes, on the other hand, are very simple. If you're goal is to smooth, there are only a few options. And while a hand plane does require more skill, I don't see that as relevant to this test. It's a question of results. If you want a particular result, you'll put in the work to achieve it. As for timing, I can have my plane honed up and ready to use in about 2 minutes. That is, IF it even needs to be honed. And once it's ready to go, I can knock out a board in mere seconds with just a few strokes. With sanding, you have to proceed through at least 3-4 grits before you're done. Then you have to do it all over again on the next board. When it comes to final surface prep and time, sanding doesn't even come close to being as fast as planing. It's no contest.
I wasn't disagreeing with you, if it came across that way I apologize. I would still say that while there are only a few options as far as planes go, that doesn't mean that I would know which one. Do I use a Stanley 52 or a number 4 Jack plane? There are so many options that someone coming into it new wouldn't know what they do. I know there are many applications for them but it's hard to tell which ones are for what. This is a topic that doesn't need to be addressed in this video as a whole, just as a note that it would take more skill and knowledge. I'm sure it's faster for you having experience with it, but for some one that is just learning on their own it's not so simple.
I guess I should have said that I'm new to this and trying to learn, and that from what I've learned so far about planing, which is limited, is that it is a more complex thing than just sand paper. You are right though it is about perspective, someone who has been doing woodworking for some time vs. someone trying to learn from scratch with nothing other than videos from TH-cam.
Just so newcomers know. When people say "clarity" they mean a surface that looks like it has depth. Figured woods almost look 3 dimensional on the surface. There is an iridescence to a well planed board. It almost shimmers in the light. A really sharp plane can produce a surface that is almost glass-like in its reflectivity. That is to say you can see mildly clear reflections in it. They aren’t super high resolution reflections, to be fair. But wood prepared any other way isn’t reflective at all because it’s simply not that smooth of a surface.
Wood isn’t hard enough to polish (sand) to a high level of smoothness like stone or metal is. With the latter two you can just keep grinding the surface with finer abrasives until the scratches are so small they don’t diffuse the light much and that’s what we call "smooth" which produces reflectivity. Wood will simply crush and continue to yield as you scratch (sand) it. The other issue is that as you abrade it finer and finer it clogs the pores. This prevents it from absorbing finishes as well.
The sad thing is that figured woods are the ones that benefit from planing the most but they are the most difficult to plane. The more interesting the grain pattern the harder it is to cut cleanly. Some are literally impossible to plane well. Even with the sharpest high angle blades with the throat as closed as possible.
I've also found that hand planing works best - for what I do anyway.
BTW Mark, love your Hybrid Woodworking book!!
+Bill Diehl thanks so much!
im a handplane user. and i love them infact i prefer for much use planes than sandpaper, but there are times where planes cant go easly as pronunced curves or shapes, or some finish than are really thick so you will have to sand yes or yes. but something that i notice is that glue cures better in sanded surfaces than in planed surfaces. so when i plane edges that i have to glue i give to the edges some passes in sandpaper. saluts
Not sure if it has already been asked, but I have heard rumors that you "must sand" before applying finish (even with a planed surface). Something about the glossy planed surface not absorbing the finish as well. Any truth to this statement, or is that an old woodworker's tale? Or are some species of wood just more of a challenge to plane, and so sanding becomes a better alternative?
sir accidently acid have fall down on my bathroom wood shleves what should I do now ..its eating or giving bad shaping to wood ..how can I end it
great vid! what is that beautiful wood?
Would you ever make a video on honing a plane blade?
Great tips, I try to be a hybrid woodworker as well.
Which is the best way to smooth wood before and after staining?
Technically hand planing because it keeps the pores open. Stain is a penetrating product so it’s in the same category as oils. It wants to soak into the wood. So just refer to the video as it applies to stain as well. That being said if you’re staining wood it’s probably not great wood and maybe it doesn’t matter so much how you finish it.
Those are some really pretty boards. :)
In my personal testing... I've found that sanding must go to 400 grit or else you can definitely see a difference between 320 and 400. 320 will show visible micro swirls that will dull the appearance after applying finish. Of course... not all sandpapers are consistent with their "grit" numbering. So I would recommend 400 grit or higher for this test. However, I love your point on this... and you got me thinking that I need to give hand planing a chance ...especially with figured woods.
panofish you definitely should try it. Saves so much time over sanding to that high a level. Not to mention no noise or dust.
I will... I just need to get a decent plane for this. I don't have one. :) I believe the results would be much closer if you sand to 400+ grit. But, like you and Marc said... the time saved is the benefit! BUT, if you have rounded corners or edges... you'll need to sand. But you should take advantage of the hand plane for the large flat surfaces.
But sanding to a higher grit also decreases absorption of finish. I think sanding higher, at least on figured boards, would have the opposite effect and result is less contrast. That's the technique we use to make end grain appear lighter and to combat blotchiness. So on figured boards like this, I can only imagine the difference would be even more dramatic the higher the grit.
I need to run your test for myself, but in my experience the 320 grit figured board looks terrible and the 400 grit board looks amazing. I did not do a planed board however... which may look even more amazing than the 400. I am excited to find out for myself the next time I have some figured walnut ! Thanks Marc!
I still have the test boards. I can sand them up to 400 real quick and send you a picture.
Which lacquer did you use? If I could plane figured wood I would.
Get your blade as sharp as possible (16000). Use a high angle (60 degree). Close the throat as mulch as possible. Figured woods can be done. But not with a moderately sharp normal angle blade.
ooooohhh Live or Memorex??? Wow the planed and scraped sure do pop and have more ... definition for want of a better word. Thanks for the great video Marc!!
Muy bueno
Great video. What species is that?
That, my friend, is the finest Oregon black walnut.
Great clip! I currently only use cheap wood to build my projects. I hope to step it up to better quality woods in the future, at that point, I’d consider buying some hand planes.
Quick question. What was that air gun you were using? I’ve Never seen that before.
You could just get a cheap plane and try it out even on cheap wood. I found handplanes to be much nicer to work with than sanding but that may just be personal preference.
As to cheap planes i would recommend a number 4 plane to start with. Those are easily available used or new.
To my astonishment i found that even the dirt cheap silverline No4 works really well once it is sharpened and set up properly. Due to the bad machining of the silverlines they take a bit more effort for the initial setup than lets say an old stanley and it helps to flatten the extremely rough sole but after that they work just fine.
Just don't even try the cheapo block planes because those are terrible and different from the bench planes i couldn't get them to work properly.
I am considering a planer but am concerned that the standard 12 or 13 inch you get for $300-$600 at the box stores will not be wide enough for most of my projects. I don't have space or money for a planer that is 20 inches are more. What would you suggest?
A router sled would do the trick. It's more work than just sliding it into a planer but really well suited to larger slabs.
Why this was Plane O’l informative stuff right here !!! Right down to the nitty GRITty :-)
I tell you, Spags really "Bearded Dragon" that hand plane in this demo. Would you agree William Lutes?
Stanley Pearse AbosoLUTESly !
Yep he PEARSEd that one
oy vey!