2:55 is the Woodriver brand a very good plane? I know its a woodcraft house brand, but as far as fit and finnish. Smoothness of opration Sole plates flatness and accuracy of its design over all as a budget brand. Or would you recommend somthing like Bridge River over the number 4.5 ? Or an older Stanley Oh completed questions but it gets down to the point. What gets the job done verses pride in your tools. What can the beginner wood worker buy to do the job as a hobby vers a labor of love and pride as a full time craftsman doing his art? The difference between a functioning table or a work of art.
Hi Rob. A message should be ---don't be afraid of modifying tools to suit personal preferences. That heavy handled chisel - make a new handle. That out-of-square mortise chisel, get it re-ground square. Etc etc. No tool is sacred. If there is a sharp corner that annoys, grind it off. Enjoy the channel. Cheers!!
Modifying tools is fine, but it’s not the topic of discussion of this video. This video is meant to be a warning to take into consideration BEFORE buying any of these tools in the first place. If you buy the right tool the first time, you don’t have to modify it at all. He’s not talking to anyone watching this video who already has one, some or all of these tools. He’s talking about balance, not weight. Because the neck of that chisel is so long, any handle throws it’s balance off in a close grip for paring like he was holding it. 14:02 While it’s not in this video, he does compare the Narex mortise chisel to a preferred brand in a different video and he does say that it could be grinded square, but it’s so much meat to remove that most people would overheat their chisels and ruin the tempering. For that reason, and because they’re made of softer steel, he does not recommend the Narex mortise chisels at all.
Yes I understand where you are coming from. However, what is the option for those who already own those tools - throw them away or modify? The world is in trouble because of the throw away attitude that exists. Also surface grinding uses a coolant and the material is not overheated. @@surlycanadian
I think it depends on what level of work one wants to accomplish. If I want to do rough general work, I would keep it and make do. If I want to do truly fine hand tool woodworking, I throw/give my inadequate tools away, and get the appropriate tools. Otherwise, I view it as a waste of time and energy. We all learn lessons. Hard lessons and easy lessons. I’ve purchased thousands in tools that I wish I spent differently. I learned along the way, in part, by watching those like Rob.
@@johnspathonis1078 I said he’s not talking to people who already have the specific tools. This video is not for them. The topic isn’t “do you have these tools I hate?”. The topic is “if you’re thinking about buying these tools, don’t”. Since he’s not talking to people who already own these tools, modifying them is an irrelevant point to his actual target audience for this video; people who don’t have these specific tools. ‘Learn from my mistakes and don’t buy these” “I already have them” “Okay, you’re not the target audience for this topic then.” Go watch another video that is more relevant to your existing situation You have more options than just throwing them away or modifying them. You could sell them or give them away to a starting woodworker.
You do a great job explaining about the tools , I'm a 38 year veteran of building and repairing furniture, where we're you when I started buying tool's. Had to look up how to hand cut dovetails a year ago ,Thank you for your teaching , restoring a 1870's office desk. USA, Michigan
I like going to estate and yard sales to find old hand tools which I restore. You learn a lot about hand tools restoring them and usually the quality is unmatched. I have bought some rusty dull hulks that I've turned into gems.
I think you missed my point. These are tools that at one point I “thought” I needed, but in reality shouldn’t have purchased. The purpose of the video is to hopefully save someone else from making the same mistake.
Excellent presentation on what tools not to buy. I’m only 70 years old and started woodworking at age 4 so I don’t quite have as many years of experience as you, but I totally agree with everything you said.
It's nice to hear well considered opinions from people with a lot of experience. Learning from other people's mistakes is a lot cheaper than learning from your own. Thanks for the video.
Great video. Personal preference is everything. You talk about what I call the joy factor. It is subjective and sometimes you can’t even explain why, but a tool or a process makes you happy. For example, if I commissioned you to make a shaker table with a drawer but stipulated you must use those 9 mistake tools, that table would come out as well as if you used your preferred tools. What would be missing would be the joy factor. You would cut perfect dovetails with the gent saw. You would compensate for the chisel bevels. You would dig out the dedicated shooting plane and work through the ergonomics. To me, a good gent saw is a delight to use. I don’t use a mortise chisel (don’t own one) because there is no joy in doing that task - for me. I can’t make the unseen joint better and it brings me no happiness. On the other hand, I draft and draw by hand as opposed to CAD. Slower, yes. Better, yes. And the joy factor is through the roof!
I bought a dovetail saw with a round handle because I thought it would improve my woodworking. Every time I get it out I regret it and swap to a cheap Irwin pull saw with a D handle that produces very clean cuts. Its nice to have my experience vindicated with respect to the handle design. However the absence of a back on the pull saw really helps me see if I am holding the saw parallel to my line. I like the minimal set on the pull saw too. Not sure if I am going to spend any more money on dovetail saws unless I find a vintage one in a flea market.
@@ian7819 since You already have a dovetail saw with a round handle (gent's saw), try a "3 fingers grip" on it - grab the handle of the saw with only 3 fingers instead of 4 and put the index finger on the lateral flat part of the brass back (put the thumb wherever You find it comfortable) and try to practice. It's not as comfortable as a dedicated D handle, but it offers at least some reference and control (for me, at least). P.S. Even Paul Sellers uses gent's saw "wrong" by putting the index finger on top of the brass back.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking ...Cheaper and faster - I 100% agree; but since ian7819 already bought one, he can try to experiment with the grip, and eventually, find a less uncomfortable "position", or he can leave it and not bother about it. :)
I have become a big fan of Japanese pull saws. I find it easy to make a straight cut with the pulling motion. It offers more control than pushing I feel. Great tips in the video anyway. I also prefer a hefty planer, it gives a smoother movement.
@@NeilAbaloneHave you tried a dozuki for cutting dovetails? It changed my mind, although I love using my ryoba and pull out my kugihiki way more than I ever thought I would…
@@NeilAbalone I don't know about the handle of your dozuki, but all of my Japanese saws have oval cross section handles, and so I can use them rather reliably. If one's into vertical cuts only, one can still clamp the piece slanted by the necessary degree.
I'm a pull stroke fan, too, but I do agree with Rob about the problem of the thin blades on Japanese pull saws. I took a regular back saw (called a tenon saw here in the UK) and dismantled and turned the blade round so it now cuts on the pull. Bit of work, but well worth it.
Dear Rob, absolutely agree on the saw handle point. Any favorite saw with a true handle grip will improve the directional action and increase muscle memory. Those round handled saws are of better use in a jig. For Japanese saws it’s different, because of the pull action. Hardwoods indeed are less accurately cut with traditional Japanese saws. Oyakata makes a garden style saw with a slightly thicker blade. That saw is more suitable for hardwood. Although I must add there that to allocate saw blades for hardwoods is also helpful. Humbly think it also depends on the level of skill, muscle memory and whether the cut is with or against the grain of the wood. Learning to saw straight is imperative, for folks that push too much, the Japanese saw can be a learning experience, especially for finding the balance between applied action and letting the tool do the work. Great vid, am not a prolific user of planes, definitely will look into your shooting board plane jig vid. Cheerio
I have a Veritas low angle jack that I was at first trepidatious about, but I’m getting incredibly smooth cuts on everything from highly figured walnut to jatoba and even ipe (crazy I know, but I like the look on a small box). I have to agree though that it’s all about sharpness at the end of the day. Thanks for all you’ve taught me over the years, Coach Cosman. Cheers!
A lot of people like their low angle jacks. Some are on TH-cam and I believe are very skilled. Rob is entitled to his opinion and his comments are valid for him and others If I owned a low angle hack, I think I might grind the bevel a little under 25° and hone a microbevel a little less for an angle of attack of about 38°. I've tried that on my block plane and I really like it on end grain. Otherwise I don't see much difference, I might someday want a higher angle of attack than 45°. A low angle hack gives you flexibility. But if you sharpen well, I don't see much need to increase the angle. You can control the tear out other ways. Tight mouth, minimal blade extension past the chip breaker, planing technique.
You had me at 'if the blade is sharp being wider won't matter'. I'm a beginner woodworker, but I've used knives cooking and other jobs for decades and I've seen how the sharper the blade the safer and easier the work. Really like the way you explain stuff.
This video has helped me a heap. When i started out i bought a low-angle jack plane and some Japanese pull saws. Which is fine, but no one told me those tools were not gonna cut it on hard Maple. Seeing an experienced woodworker give his thoughts on the limits of these tools (tools which all the other popular youtubers praise). Its helped me recognize my early failures weren't 100% skill issue, but a little bit of using the wrong tools for the job.
Bravo Rob a whole video and not one tool needed to be plugged in or have a battery. I am a joiner and have always used a 4 1/2 and a 6 while working on a bench.
I’m a big fan of my LN #62. It’s basically my jack for sure. I agree with mostly everything else. And from my experience most planes, if tuned well, can smooth. When it comes to shooting I find the biggest issue I have is a dull blade. Can shoot anything almost as long as your blades are sharp and maintained. Thanks for the video Rob
I have my Grandfathers 62, given to me from my father. I like it a lot but I think more because it belonged to him. I would have never purchased one if my father hadn't given it to me.
I have a modern Stanley Sweetheart 62 and I find the trick with sharpening is to have the primary 25deg bevel hollow ground (or leave it as such) and then your secondary is also 25deg you only remove a small bit of material on both the leading and trailing edge of the primary effectively not much more than a more traditional 30deg secondary bevel. This ends up maintaing an effective cutting angle of 37deg (12+25). For a realy low angle plane you would be better of with a traditional bevel down mitre plane with a bed of 27-30 deg and the primary bevel at 25 deg.
All great points, & great stuff as always, Rob. I think the 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 sizes are just less accessible to people who don't want to spend $250+ new or hunt down a decent price on a good vintage tool. Prewar fixer-uppers in the 3 - 5 size range grow on trees for like $30, and there are lots of resources for learning to get them cleaned up and running. I totally agree, though, the half numbers are usually nicer to use overall.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking for me this was a new nr. 5 (60euro) from india.... it works well and came square... id love to know how nice a 350 euro 5,5 is but thats how much i was able to spend on my whole equipment. impossible to invest this in only one tool. also a japanese multi purpose saw works well for me as long as i stay relaxed... hard times ...maybe i can affpd a wr 5,5 if i sell all boxes i make instead of giving them away for chrismas...
The half sizes may not be as common as the usual sizes but they are not rare. I just checked and here in the UK on Ebay today there are 69 Stanley Bailey and Record no 4 1/2. Good condition ones seem to be £35-£40 (less than $50). I almost bought one and I really don't need another plane!
Thanks for the great video. I'm an old guy who's new at hand tool woodworking. I inherited a few tools when my father in law died, one of which was a Stanley #6. You're so right about the weight an stability you get from a plane of that size. Considering that I've learned most of the techniques I use from you, I'd probably have bought a 5-1/2 if I hadn't already had the 6 but I think the difference between them is inconsequential. I also got a couple of block planes in the acquisition, one being a 60-1/2 and that's the one I reach for pretty much every time. Funny, I didn't even realize how much more comfortable it is until you mentioned it. Finally, you're so right about the sharpness being the most important part as it pertains to the amount of work it takes to use it. A few videos back you quipped that there are guys who put off sharpening until it's to the point where they gotta get another guy to help push it and that cracked me up. But...I also took it to heart and when I notice I'm working up more of a sweat or when I want a really special finish on the wood a touch-up on the stones is definitely in order.
Just to add my 2 cents as a japanese wood worker for the dozuki saw. Unlike western saws many japanese saws are ground for either hardwoods and softwoods. Usualy for hardwood you need a higher tpi saw and teeth ground for hardwoods (slightly shallower angle on teeth). You can stil cut hardwood with a sotwood saw but you need to be gentle and careful, hardly applying any pressure at all. Additionally dozuki saws are very delicate and fine, they are meant to be used with little to no pressure when cutting ans you need to prioritize straightness. If you don't you may loose a tooth. After that they will leave an excellent and flat surface.
I love the dozuki for dovetailing. But having only used mediocre western saws before, it cost me 2 blades to learn how to use it properly. 😅 However, I converted the damaged blade to a pull-blade to use it up properly. =)
yeah i would definately trust japanese woodworking finesse over western. the attachment to life in general compared to overiding it and forcing a path is part of the culture, compared to our brute force sort of approach. book of five rings even has some exellent woodwork advice 😂 and that guy was a samurai..but he understood the nature of wood. id also trust our ignorance of japanese culture to be pretty solid, so were missing most of the education on the tools and practices.
WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE??? Someone who has been working with fine crafted wood for many years? Someone who specializes in hand tools? Someone who is a master craftsman and teacher? All of this is WORDS OF WISDOM by an experienced woodworker. I will take Rob's advise every time and ALWAYS learn from his experience. Thanks Rob and keep'em coming! !! !!!
I always enjoy your presentation even when, as in this one, I disagree with you on a few points ( I love me my Veritas low-angle jack! LOL!) Your presentations are always clear and well thought out and right about 95% of the time.
With regard to the gent's saw, the "correct" and effective grip is to move your hand forward, so that your thumb and index finger are pinching the blade. This way, you will feel the angle of the saw the same way as a dovetail saw.
Thanks for your video! It is also my opinion to get started with proper tools! It gives you a better understanding of process and avoids making mistakes.
Nice Planes brings back memories. I used to work in antiques and collectibles in Niagara Falls while being a carpenter at the same time and I used to collect antique tools. I even had a flexible Base plane that you can make the base convex or concave so you could plane rounded objects.
Great episode. I can't say I disagree with any of the opinions. I would just say I love my #3. It is the perfect size for use on small materials. I make a lot of small boxes including the Cosman wood hinge box. Using a 5 1/2 on narrow and short boards is just not fun or easy. The #3 is a dream. The mass is not an issue since you are using it as a smoother and just taking off whisper shavings. Oh and I love my Lie-Nielsen #51. It's $650 now which is crazy expensive. I bought mine ten years ago for I think just over $500 which is also a bit insane. But I love it. I have a shooting board that has a track with a runner on the right side that houses the plane perfectly. Both sit right below my bench on a shelf. Easy to pull out when I need to shoot.
I haven’t made any of these purchases in my time. I am a hybrid woodworker as I use what will do the job the quickest and sometime hand tools are just faster. But you taught me something today. I never thought of using a block of wood to guide a mortise chisel. I use them as they are just faster if I am only doing 1 or 2.
I disagree on the low-angle jack as it is a great beginner plane. The standard plane is a pain in the neck to adjust when you're just new to woodworking. Sure, it's easy to the side of the board, but face planning is a different story. I struggle with trying to adjust everything just right to avoid gouging the face, and was ready to just give up on planes altogether when a buddy of mine told me to try the Veritas low-angle jack. It changed my whole outlook on planes. I understand that as an experienced woodworker you don't have these issues, but many beginners do. In essence, your advising a novice to avoid a tool that may be far more suited to them because you don't have the issues they do. Furthermore, I have no clue why you dismiss the different angles. There is no way you can plane a difficult grain such as birdseye maple with a standard plane, but I've done it with a low-angle plane with the high pitch blade. It's a bit of effort, but at least it doesn't tear the wood.
They make great Japanese dovetail saws for western hardwoods, but they are priced similarly to your saw. The $45 ones work much better in softwood and require a more gentle hand imo.
But traditionally, japanese saws were made for local hardwoods in Japan which are mostly softwoods, and they take practice and skill to master properly.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking they make saws with teeth specifically designed for western white oak (or similar) but they are $200+ I’m not sure if they take significantly more practice than western saws. Western saws seem to take a decent amount of practice too, but you would know way more on that than me.
Made sense to me Rob. Some of the things you mentioned I probably would have grumbled a bit over but not really put much thought to why I was peeved. The marking gauge; I've recently bought a wheeled type similar to yours after years of shredding lines in timber with the old pin type. The pin gauge is actually a nice piece of timber and brass, but the darn thing bit me every time I used it. I came across it to day and it had a go at me. I dont want to bin it, so I think I may mount it on the shed wall. Sort of a historical artifact. I'll file those pins first!
This was a great video just like the others you have. I have personally experienced many of these tools to be useless in my shop. I always reach for my 5 1/2 more than any other planes and use my 4 like a scrub plane. Thanks you the tips about mortise chisels. One tool I would add to this bunch is a large > 14 inch plus rip tenon saw that are very popular but I find them clunky useless and not used very often. In my case never.
I love your honesty. Thanks again for a no nonsense opinion… that I agree with by the way. I don’t have a show but I’ve been making furniture for almost 50 years.
Hi Rob, bought a Jack plane mainly on price (Stanley Sweetheart) and enjoy using it. Added a 51/2 from Busy Bee and switch back and forth. However as you say, sharpness is key to good planing.
That hand plane mold for shooting boards is genius!! Want one! I built your shooting board 2 months ago (I didn’t know what I was missing!). Have been using it ALL THE TIME. Although my hand gets a sore spot in the palm. This is just what I need!
I'm in the UK. My biggest waste of money was a Surform plane, this thing is like a mega open file. The only thing I've ever used it for in 50 years is rounding off fence posts.I agree with you about the 41/2" plane, I use itall the time, its always on my bench, Ive just had to buy a new blade but (even purchased from Axminster Tools) that the steel is as good as the old one. Other problem on my large bench plane, is that the cast iron has aged so that the bottom has raised areas where-ever the casting is thicker. I could spend hours scrapping to blue on a plate glass, but haven't the patience, so I'm looking out for a firm with a surface grinder to true it all up. I hads an old 7 where the surface grinder had to take off 15 thou to get it flat and the same on the sides to get it back straight and flat. Ive never got on with those pull saws. My favourite was made by Sorby and that too was my grandfathers. Its nice having old tools that were my Grandfather's that are 150 years old, but their maintenance needs some effort. During the lock-downs I couldn't buy new throw-aways when they got blunt. A diamond three square file worked a treat, bu you cant reset them.
Protest against government overreach! They have forgotten who they work for! The shop where I got my hair cut went out of business as a result of the last stupid, useless shutdown. Notice none of the big stores shut down. Hair stays till that idiot trudeau is gone!
I have a Veritas low angle jack plane. It was pretty much useless as a shooting plane but works beautifully otherwise. I purchased a #6 from Cosman. It's a little large for shooting but works well for that. It doubles for use jointing medium length pieces for musical instruments I make. The first pricey saw I bought was a gent's saw. I never use it. I have Narex mortise chisels which do have sloped sides. I have learned to use them passably well.
As a crotchety old boat builder it's a bit of a surprise that I don't disagree with anything you say and completely agree with the 4 1/2, 5 1/2, and low angle block plane recommendations.
On starting to watch this I wanted to give you an argument BUT your findings are completely right though I would like to mention that the traditional adjustable mortice gauge is still fit for purpose and yes it is hard to see the marking pin but with practice all traditional gauges work fine. Just my thoughts.
Rob, you present some good arguments for your tool choices; while l learned to cut dovetails pins first with a dozuki, it was in relatively soft poplar and while l have been a planeophile and still love my collection l may devote a little more time to two 51/2s l have. Thanks for your input.
Excellent info and I agree with everything you pointed out. Like you I have tools that I don't use. If not a collector piece, they need to go because I just don't have the space and they will just corrode. Thanks!
Just modified the handle of a number 4 plane to suit my larger hand and now it's so much more comfortable and easy to use. I also made it suit my right handedness.
Great video as always! The practical advice is always welcomed because the quality of your work backs up your opinions! Thank you for sharing! Take care👍🏻
I love you work. The explanations you offer for the reasons of your dislikes of the tools are all very intelligent & useful. BTW you look fabulous for a 700 year old!
I haven't popped in for a while. I didn't recognise you with the long hair at first. Then I heard then sense you spoke and realised, "yeah, this is the guy I remember". 😄 Great recommendations.
I've been a woodworker since 1977. But that took me in a different direction. I don't do masterful hand work like you. Mine took me to Formica and cabinetry and house trim work. You demonstrated cutting a pin with a back saw. If I attempted that the piece would be wrecked!
i wonder if i agree with all of your points so wholeheartedly because i learned so much of what i know about hand tools from you. i guess i should be thanking you for shaping my woodworking preferences and opinions as well as teaching my how to do handtool woodworking the correct way. love the channel, love your saws (have 3 so far) and all of the other tools i have from your store. i have the whole set of ibc bench and mortise chisels and i cannot tell you how much better they are than any other i own.
I own a no 4 wood plane it’s the only one I have. I think it’s brilliant. Would very much like a bigger one. Dove tail saw you call it we call it a tennon saw another wonderful tool very precise. I like it. As the for the Japanese saw I’ve seen them about but don’t like the look of them. Anyway wonderful video some great information.
I have an No 62 LN low angle jack and find the performance is way better than a no 5 Stanley bevel down plane. I put it down to the way the cutting edge is better supported. There is much more steel behind where the force is applied. The bevel down blade is supported by the frog that is some mm above the sole and the cutting force acts to bend the blade. I put a bevel on the underside of the no62 and reduce the top bevel angle to get an even lower cutting angle without sacrificing edge strength. The mouth adjustment is easy and the slightly further forward position of the cutting edge, with the underside bevel, can be compensated for without pulling things apart. I use my no 62 all the time on Australian hardwood with good effect. The very hard cryogenic treated blade is a big advantage too.
Thanks man! That just helped me decide which planes I need to start with and purchase. Newbie/novice here. Retail store I visited yesterday had a #3 on sale for a decent price. Not the #4 1/2 or #5 1/2 though. I almost impulsively bought that #3. 🤣🤣🤣
As a regular hand plane user and collector of vintage planes I would agree with many of you par hand plane conclusions. Many years ago I decided to build up a fully restored set of Bedrocks. I patiently collected all the parts from eBay, applied genuine asphaltum ( 16:49 not paint) to the beds and then fitted all units with a cutter from Ron Hock. The result was a set of very useful planes are my users. Regarding the # 51/2 I found the Ron’s regular 41/2 or 51/2 cutter fit the # 41/2 but not the #5 ½ where it was a tad too wide. Ron very kindly took it back and milled a fraction off. The resulting # 51/2 is a very useful tool and one I use regularly along with #41/2. I like the additional heft. It also has a corrugated sole.
Urrggg I have a set of those Narex mortise chisels… oh dear. To be fair I haven’t used them and they were a gift. Thanks to you though, Rob, I have a Clifton 5 1/5 bench plane, which is wonderful and is used on every project
I reach for my #3 smoother more than any other smoothing plane! I also love Japanese style pull saws for lots of different tasks, but not ripping dovetails. I guess it goes to show that everybody does stuff slightly differently to suit their own preferences! (But even if I disagree with some specifics, having videos like this to make people think before they buy is fantastic!)
I'm almost in agreement. I love my LN62, and for all the planes I have, my actual go to is an old, but well tuned up Stanley 605 with a Hock blade. We could all sit and debate all our hand planes for hours/days/years, have a great time, consume enormous amounts of beer and never agree on a thing.
My first hand plane was a tool auction, bargain bin, Miller's Falls 4 1/2 with a corrugated sole. A 45 minute tune-up, and a Hock blade 20 years ago is all I've ever done to this plane. I also own My grandfather's 5 1/2 Stanley. They are all I ever use.
My main working planes are a Stanley number 5+1/2 with a Veritas PMV11 blade and a Lie Nilsen low angle jack - they definitely both stay sharp and work very well
I was going to remark about how much I like my low angle jack, but realized that really, it is a mixture of the mass and the low bevel angle. I occasionally have prepared microscope slides of different woods, trying to identify them, and the low angle jack works really well for the extremely thin, end shavings I want. I do use it for very light modifications when squaring the edge of a board, but I followed your advice about the 5.5 and 4.5 and like both.
I bought a #62 from an itinerant woodworker at a woodworkers show in Vancouver. He thought the #62 was the greatest plane ever made. You might know him--he was a lot younger than you--but his voice sounded exactly like yours. Do you have a brother or cousin also named Rob Cosman? Or maybe you just changed your opinion? That would be an interesting video.
Never been a fan however the company I represented pushed the low jack as the best “first plane”. I loved the 4 1/2 for a long time till I got to know David Charlesworth, 5 1/2 rules!
Hi Rob. I totally agree on your opinion about planes. Even 100 years ago marketing was a thing. If Stanley just would have had a couple of nice types of planes in the catalogue, capable of doing every single job, they would have sold only those and sales would have stalled rather soon. How did they fix their dropping sales figures? Indeed, by expanding the catalogue by dozens of different types. I have 2 planes, a four and a six. That's it. Never felt the need to buy another one.
I really appreciate these instructional videos. I agree with most of what you said. I have been doing wood working for only a few years as a hobby. So not a ton of hours in the craft. I have heard many recommendations that I can't wrap my head around the logic. You just explained it for me. Instinctively I disagreed with some tool suggestions and you just told me why they "felt" wrong. Thank you.
I like my No 4 as my hands are a lot smaller than yours. The 4½ feels a little less controllable but having watched this I'll dust it off, sharpen it up and give it another go.
I've heard your name on several other video's but this I think is the first time I've watched one. Personally, I do very little woodwork even though I do enjoy hand planing. (I trained as a precision machinist and was a motorcycle technician/instructor, etc) The only one of the tools you showed that I actually own is the last one, carbide blade round marking gauge. I actually don't like it and find a conventional rosewood pin type much easier to use, the larger size of beam is far more comfortable.
I have one of the two planes my grandfather used. I have a smoothing plane he made shortly after he emigrated to the US in 1902. The other is maybe a 3 size plane he acquired in the early 20s.
Low angle jack I will say is much easier to sharpen. Do not have the extra fuss of the chip breaker. I appreciate that. Though I'm not adjusting the knob all the time like you are. Although, not having the lateral adjuster is a problem. Find that the angle gets knocked out of wack occassionally with tough end grain. BUT, in the end, you get what you pay for. The 5 + 5 1/2 are typically more expensive that the No. 62. Nearly $80 more for a Lie-Nielsen. (Basically, I just sold myself on needing a 5 1/2 now.)
Thanks for the helpful information. Your right. But you don’t have to get the most expensive. Like me you can’t afford it but I can get my old planes and I can get those whisky shavings as good as your fancy Woodriver I paid for mine 15 to 20 dollars. 13 dollars for my old kutter king had to get blade leaver adjustment but it’s good now. Your good wood worker. You’re one of the top 5. God bless you.
Well Mr. Rob, I agree on 8 out of 9. I bought new Stanley 62& that #4with the adjuster that doesn't work the #4 is in shop under a lot of dust the 62 I gave to a nice young man who is getting into craft. My goto is W.R. 5 1/2 my disagreement comes in block plane. I was given a Stanley 102 i think it fits in your hand , apron pocket . Great video. Keep em coming.
yes a 102 probably does fit the hand well as its cap dose not sit very high. but a 102 is a "special" plane and I was referring to a "Standard" size block plane
Rob, Thank you for taking time to answer my comment. I really know very little about the small block planes the man gave me and he has passed on . I just know it feels good when I pick it up and use it not like some of the newer planes I have bought the past couple of years. What happened to "Stanley "? I'm sure we both know. Have a great weekend looks like winter heading ya'lls way.
I've noticed that there are a lot more poor quality tools on offer then there used to be, so you have to be careful when choosing. I agree with you about the feel of a tool, if it doesn't feel right in your hand it won't work right and you will stop using it.
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Check out the 10 Most Popular Cosman Tools at: th-cam.com/video/mvmgH_2NBZk/w-d-xo.html
2:55 is the Woodriver brand a very good plane? I know its a woodcraft house brand, but as far as fit and finnish. Smoothness of opration
Sole plates flatness and accuracy of its design over all as a budget brand. Or would you recommend somthing like Bridge River over the number 4.5 ? Or an older Stanley
Oh completed questions but it gets down to the point.
What gets the job done verses pride in your tools.
What can the beginner wood worker buy to do the job as a hobby vers a labor of love and pride as a full time craftsman doing his art?
The difference between a functioning table or a work of art.
I would be interested in your opinion of a new Clifton 5 1/2? Any chance of a review? I like that is is made in Briton as I am from the UK
Hi Rob. A message should be ---don't be afraid of modifying tools to suit personal preferences. That heavy handled chisel - make a new handle. That out-of-square mortise chisel, get it re-ground square. Etc etc. No tool is sacred. If there is a sharp corner that annoys, grind it off. Enjoy the channel. Cheers!!
Modifying tools is fine, but it’s not the topic of discussion of this video. This video is meant to be a warning to take into consideration BEFORE buying any of these tools in the first place. If you buy the right tool the first time, you don’t have to modify it at all. He’s not talking to anyone watching this video who already has one, some or all of these tools.
He’s talking about balance, not weight. Because the neck of that chisel is so long, any handle throws it’s balance off in a close grip for paring like he was holding it. 14:02
While it’s not in this video, he does compare the Narex mortise chisel to a preferred brand in a different video and he does say that it could be grinded square, but it’s so much meat to remove that most people would overheat their chisels and ruin the tempering. For that reason, and because they’re made of softer steel, he does not recommend the Narex mortise chisels at all.
Yes I understand where you are coming from. However, what is the option for those who already own those tools - throw them away or modify? The world is in trouble because of the throw away attitude that exists. Also surface grinding uses a coolant and the material is not overheated. @@surlycanadian
I think it depends on what level of work one wants to accomplish. If I want to do rough general work, I would keep it and make do. If I want to do truly fine hand tool woodworking, I throw/give my inadequate tools away, and get the appropriate tools. Otherwise, I view it as a waste of time and energy.
We all learn lessons. Hard lessons and easy lessons. I’ve purchased thousands in tools that I wish I spent differently. I learned along the way, in part, by watching those like Rob.
@@johnspathonis1078 I said he’s not talking to people who already have the specific tools. This video is not for them. The topic isn’t “do you have these tools I hate?”. The topic is “if you’re thinking about buying these tools, don’t”. Since he’s not talking to people who already own these tools, modifying them is an irrelevant point to his actual target audience for this video; people who don’t have these specific tools.
‘Learn from my mistakes and don’t buy these”
“I already have them”
“Okay, you’re not the target audience for this topic then.” Go watch another video that is more relevant to your existing situation
You have more options than just throwing them away or modifying them. You could sell them or give them away to a starting woodworker.
Ben detto a volte anche il nuovo ha bisogno di essere corretto o modificato
Because of lung problems I am currently replacing a lot of power tools with hand tools. This video is very helpful. Thank you!
I pray peace and calm enables for you better breathing, especially during your biggest challenges.
✝️☝🏾💜🙏🏿
You do a great job explaining about the tools , I'm a 38 year veteran of building and repairing furniture, where we're you when I started buying tool's. Had to look up how to hand cut dovetails
a year ago ,Thank you for your teaching , restoring a 1870's office desk. USA, Michigan
Kindergarten
I like going to estate and yard sales to find old hand tools which I restore. You learn a lot about hand tools restoring them and usually the quality is unmatched. I have bought some rusty dull hulks that I've turned into gems.
Buy whatever tools you feel you need for the job, mastering good quality traditional tools expand your skills.
I think you missed my point. These are tools that at one point I “thought” I needed, but in reality shouldn’t have purchased. The purpose of the video is to hopefully save someone else from making the same mistake.
Excellent presentation on what tools not to buy.
I’m only 70 years old and started woodworking at age 4 so I don’t quite have as many years of experience as you, but I totally agree with everything you said.
It's nice to hear well considered opinions from people with a lot of experience. Learning from other people's mistakes is a lot cheaper than learning from your own.
Thanks for the video.
I concur! 😊
Howeever, sometimes a lesson registers quicker if you made the mistake first then learn the correct way from a teacher.
Great video. Personal preference is everything. You talk about what I call the joy factor. It is subjective and sometimes you can’t even explain why, but a tool or a process makes you happy. For example, if I commissioned you to make a shaker table with a drawer but stipulated you must use those 9 mistake tools, that table would come out as well as if you used your preferred tools. What would be missing would be the joy factor. You would cut perfect dovetails with the gent saw. You would compensate for the chisel bevels. You would dig out the dedicated shooting plane and work through the ergonomics. To me, a good gent saw is a delight to use. I don’t use a mortise chisel (don’t own one) because there is no joy in doing that task - for me. I can’t make the unseen joint better and it brings me no happiness. On the other hand, I draft and draw by hand as opposed to CAD. Slower, yes. Better, yes. And the joy factor is through the roof!
I really never thought about the saw handle but now understand why it is important thank you for the explanation
I bought a dovetail saw with a round handle because I thought it would improve my woodworking. Every time I get it out I regret it and swap to a cheap Irwin pull saw with a D handle that produces very clean cuts. Its nice to have my experience vindicated with respect to the handle design. However the absence of a back on the pull saw really helps me see if I am holding the saw parallel to my line. I like the minimal set on the pull saw too. Not sure if I am going to spend any more money on dovetail saws unless I find a vintage one in a flea market.
@@ian7819 since You already have a dovetail saw with a round handle (gent's saw), try a "3 fingers grip" on it - grab the handle of the saw with only 3 fingers instead of 4 and put the index finger on the lateral flat part of the brass back (put the thumb wherever You find it comfortable) and try to practice. It's not as comfortable as a dedicated D handle, but it offers at least some reference and control (for me, at least).
P.S. Even Paul Sellers uses gent's saw "wrong" by putting the index finger on top of the brass back.
Gent’s saws are only manufactured as a cheaper alternative to creating a proper handle.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking ...Cheaper and faster - I 100% agree; but since ian7819 already bought one, he can try to experiment with the grip, and eventually, find a less uncomfortable "position", or he can leave it and not bother about it. :)
I have become a big fan of Japanese pull saws. I find it easy to make a straight cut with the pulling motion. It offers more control than pushing I feel. Great tips in the video anyway. I also prefer a hefty planer, it gives a smoother movement.
@@NeilAbaloneHave you tried a dozuki for cutting dovetails? It changed my mind, although I love using my ryoba and pull out my kugihiki way more than I ever thought I would…
@@NeilAbalone I don't know about the handle of your dozuki, but all of my Japanese saws have oval cross section handles, and so I can use them rather reliably. If one's into vertical cuts only, one can still clamp the piece slanted by the necessary degree.
I'm a pull stroke fan, too, but I do agree with Rob about the problem of the thin blades on Japanese pull saws. I took a regular back saw (called a tenon saw here in the UK) and dismantled and turned the blade round so it now cuts on the pull. Bit of work, but well worth it.
Dear Rob, absolutely agree on the saw handle point. Any favorite saw with a true handle grip will improve the directional action and increase muscle memory. Those round handled saws are of better use in a jig. For Japanese saws it’s different, because of the pull action. Hardwoods indeed are less accurately cut with traditional Japanese saws. Oyakata makes a garden style saw with a slightly thicker blade. That saw is more suitable for hardwood. Although I must add there that to allocate saw blades for hardwoods is also helpful. Humbly think it also depends on the level of skill, muscle memory and whether the cut is with or against the grain of the wood. Learning to saw straight is imperative, for folks that push too much, the Japanese saw can be a learning experience, especially for finding the balance between applied action and letting the tool do the work. Great vid, am not a prolific user of planes, definitely will look into your shooting board plane jig vid. Cheerio
He's only been woodworking for 700 years and thinks his opinion counts 😂
I know…he’s so cheeky….but I keep watching his channel.
It definitely does count lol I don’t see many people that are a better maker on the tubes
The nerve…
His opinion weirdly prefers the products he sells…
I have a Veritas low angle jack that I was at first trepidatious about, but I’m getting incredibly smooth cuts on everything from highly figured walnut to jatoba and even ipe (crazy I know, but I like the look on a small box). I have to agree though that it’s all about sharpness at the end of the day.
Thanks for all you’ve taught me over the years, Coach Cosman. Cheers!
A lot of people like their low angle jacks. Some are on TH-cam and I believe are very skilled.
Rob is entitled to his opinion and his comments are valid for him and others
If I owned a low angle hack, I think I might grind the bevel a little under 25° and hone a microbevel a little less for an angle of attack of about 38°. I've tried that on my block plane and I really like it on end grain. Otherwise I don't see much difference, I might someday want a higher angle of attack than 45°. A low angle hack gives you flexibility.
But if you sharpen well, I don't see much need to increase the angle. You can control the tear out other ways. Tight mouth, minimal blade extension past the chip breaker, planing technique.
@@jimweisgram9185 Awesome insights. I appreciate it, brother. Hope you’re enjoying yourself in your shop right now. 😊
You had me at 'if the blade is sharp being wider won't matter'. I'm a beginner woodworker, but I've used knives cooking and other jobs for decades and I've seen how the sharper the blade the safer and easier the work. Really like the way you explain stuff.
Exactly. Just like utility knives/box cutters.
This video has helped me a heap. When i started out i bought a low-angle jack plane and some Japanese pull saws. Which is fine, but no one told me those tools were not gonna cut it on hard Maple.
Seeing an experienced woodworker give his thoughts on the limits of these tools (tools which all the other popular youtubers praise). Its helped me recognize my early failures weren't 100% skill issue, but a little bit of using the wrong tools for the job.
Bravo Rob a whole video and not one tool needed to be plugged in or have a battery. I am a joiner and have always used a 4 1/2 and a 6 while working on a bench.
I’m a big fan of my LN #62. It’s basically my jack for sure. I agree with mostly everything else. And from my experience most planes, if tuned well, can smooth. When it comes to shooting I find the biggest issue I have is a dull blade. Can shoot anything almost as long as your blades are sharp and maintained. Thanks for the video Rob
I love my Veritas #62 used it much more than expected .
I have my Grandfathers 62, given to me from my father. I like it a lot but I think more because it belonged to him. I would have never purchased one if my father hadn't given it to me.
I have a modern Stanley Sweetheart 62 and I find the trick with sharpening is to have the primary 25deg bevel hollow ground (or leave it as such) and then your secondary is also 25deg you only remove a small bit of material on both the leading and trailing edge of the primary effectively not much more than a more traditional 30deg secondary bevel. This ends up maintaing an effective cutting angle of 37deg (12+25). For a realy low angle plane you would be better of with a traditional bevel down mitre plane with a bed of 27-30 deg and the primary bevel at 25 deg.
I started working with my hands and with tool 65 years ago. I've worked a huge variety of jobs. Your advice is always very good and sound. Thank you.
You started with your hands!
Thanks for the comment and for watching the video
All great points, & great stuff as always, Rob. I think the 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 sizes are just less accessible to people who don't want to spend $250+ new or hunt down a decent price on a good vintage tool. Prewar fixer-uppers in the 3 - 5 size range grow on trees for like $30, and there are lots of resources for learning to get them cleaned up and running. I totally agree, though, the half numbers are usually nicer to use overall.
I awlays recommend cry once and get the best tool you can afford
@@RobCosmanWoodworking for me this was a new nr. 5 (60euro) from india.... it works well and came square... id love to know how nice a 350 euro 5,5 is but thats how much i was able to spend on my whole equipment. impossible to invest this in only one tool. also a japanese multi purpose saw works well for me as long as i stay relaxed... hard times ...maybe i can affpd a wr 5,5 if i sell all boxes i make instead of giving them away for chrismas...
The half sizes may not be as common as the usual sizes but they are not rare. I just checked and here in the UK on Ebay today there are 69 Stanley Bailey and Record no 4 1/2. Good condition ones seem to be £35-£40 (less than $50). I almost bought one and I really don't need another plane!
Thanks again for your opinions ❤
In Germany, Dictum sells a low angle jack with a detachable shooting board grip called "hotdog" ❤
Thanks for the great video. I'm an old guy who's new at hand tool woodworking. I inherited a few tools when my father in law died, one of which was a Stanley #6. You're so right about the weight an stability you get from a plane of that size. Considering that I've learned most of the techniques I use from you, I'd probably have bought a 5-1/2 if I hadn't already had the 6 but I think the difference between them is inconsequential. I also got a couple of block planes in the acquisition, one being a 60-1/2 and that's the one I reach for pretty much every time. Funny, I didn't even realize how much more comfortable it is until you mentioned it. Finally, you're so right about the sharpness being the most important part as it pertains to the amount of work it takes to use it. A few videos back you quipped that there are guys who put off sharpening until it's to the point where they gotta get another guy to help push it and that cracked me up. But...I also took it to heart and when I notice I'm working up more of a sweat or when I want a really special finish on the wood a touch-up on the stones is definitely in order.
my favourite plane is a 6. It just feels right for me.
I enjoyed the tips and have been doing carpentry for 6 decades. Starting at ten years old with grandfather ❤
Always happy to get the opinions of a fellow Canadian. Keep up the good work!
Just to add my 2 cents as a japanese wood worker for the dozuki saw. Unlike western saws many japanese saws are ground for either hardwoods and softwoods. Usualy for hardwood you need a higher tpi saw and teeth ground for hardwoods (slightly shallower angle on teeth). You can stil cut hardwood with a sotwood saw but you need to be gentle and careful, hardly applying any pressure at all.
Additionally dozuki saws are very delicate and fine, they are meant to be used with little to no pressure when cutting ans you need to prioritize straightness. If you don't you may loose a tooth. After that they will leave an excellent and flat surface.
I love the dozuki for dovetailing. But having only used mediocre western saws before, it cost me 2 blades to learn how to use it properly. 😅
However, I converted the damaged blade to a pull-blade to use it up properly. =)
yeah, what's up with the "hundred years design?" japenese also did alot of woodworking way before the industrial revolution
yeah i would definately trust japanese woodworking finesse over western. the attachment to life in general compared to overiding it and forcing a path is part of the culture, compared to our brute force sort of approach.
book of five rings even has some exellent woodwork advice 😂 and that guy was a samurai..but he understood the nature of wood.
id also trust our ignorance of japanese culture to be pretty solid, so were missing most of the education on the tools and practices.
losing tooth or more is exactly what happens when using it as 'a European average Joe' - too much pressure/force and the damage done...
Thanks Rob. Three of the tools you discussed are on my to buy list. You just made it much easier to select the right ones.
No.3 plane being light keeps the weight considerably down in small tool box for site use !
WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE??? Someone who has been working with fine crafted wood for many years?
Someone who specializes in hand tools? Someone who is a master craftsman and teacher?
All of this is WORDS OF WISDOM by an experienced woodworker. I will take Rob's advise every time and ALWAYS learn from his experience. Thanks Rob and keep'em coming! !! !!!
Plus I have long hair so it makes me look smarter!!!!!!
I always enjoy your presentation even when, as in this one, I disagree with you on a few points ( I love me my Veritas low-angle jack! LOL!) Your presentations are always clear and well thought out and right about 95% of the time.
With regard to the gent's saw, the "correct" and effective grip is to move your hand forward, so that your thumb and index finger are pinching the blade. This way, you will feel the angle of the saw the same way as a dovetail saw.
Thanks for the tip.
Thanks for your video! It is also my opinion to get started with proper tools! It gives you a better understanding of process and avoids making mistakes.
Nice Planes brings back memories. I used to work in antiques and collectibles in Niagara Falls while being a carpenter at the same time and I used to collect antique tools. I even had a flexible Base plane that you can make the base convex or concave so you could plane rounded objects.
Great episode. I can't say I disagree with any of the opinions. I would just say I love my #3. It is the perfect size for use on small materials. I make a lot of small boxes including the Cosman wood hinge box. Using a 5 1/2 on narrow and short boards is just not fun or easy. The #3 is a dream. The mass is not an issue since you are using it as a smoother and just taking off whisper shavings.
Oh and I love my Lie-Nielsen #51. It's $650 now which is crazy expensive. I bought mine ten years ago for I think just over $500 which is also a bit insane. But I love it. I have a shooting board that has a track with a runner on the right side that houses the plane perfectly. Both sit right below my bench on a shelf. Easy to pull out when I need to shoot.
Sounds like you have a good working method. Stick with what got you to the dance
I haven’t made any of these purchases in my time. I am a hybrid woodworker as I use what will do the job the quickest and sometime hand tools are just faster. But you taught me something today. I never thought of using a block of wood to guide a mortise chisel. I use them as they are just faster if I am only doing 1 or 2.
I disagree on the low-angle jack as it is a great beginner plane. The standard plane is a pain in the neck to adjust when you're just new to woodworking. Sure, it's easy to the side of the board, but face planning is a different story. I struggle with trying to adjust everything just right to avoid gouging the face, and was ready to just give up on planes altogether when a buddy of mine told me to try the Veritas low-angle jack. It changed my whole outlook on planes.
I understand that as an experienced woodworker you don't have these issues, but many beginners do. In essence, your advising a novice to avoid a tool that may be far more suited to them because you don't have the issues they do. Furthermore, I have no clue why you dismiss the different angles. There is no way you can plane a difficult grain such as birdseye maple with a standard plane, but I've done it with a low-angle plane with the high pitch blade. It's a bit of effort, but at least it doesn't tear the wood.
They make great Japanese dovetail saws for western hardwoods, but they are priced similarly to your saw. The $45 ones work much better in softwood and require a more gentle hand imo.
But traditionally, japanese saws were made for local hardwoods in Japan which are mostly softwoods, and they take practice and skill to master properly.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking they make saws with teeth specifically designed for western white oak (or similar) but they are $200+
I’m not sure if they take significantly more practice than western saws. Western saws seem to take a decent amount of practice too, but you would know way more on that than me.
Made sense to me Rob. Some of the things you mentioned I probably would have grumbled a bit over but not really put much thought to why I was peeved. The marking gauge; I've recently bought a wheeled type similar to yours after years of shredding lines in timber with the old pin type. The pin gauge is actually a nice piece of timber and brass, but the darn thing bit me every time I used it. I came across it to day and it had a go at me. I dont want to bin it, so I think I may mount it on the shed wall. Sort of a historical artifact. I'll file those pins first!
Good choice
This was a great video just like the others you have. I have personally experienced many of these tools to be useless in my shop. I always reach for my 5 1/2 more than any other planes and use my 4 like a scrub plane. Thanks you the tips about mortise chisels. One tool I would add to this bunch is a large > 14 inch plus rip tenon saw that are very popular but I find them clunky useless and not used very often. In my case never.
I love your honesty. Thanks again for a no nonsense opinion… that I agree with by the way. I don’t have a show but I’ve been making furniture for almost 50 years.
Send us some pics of your stuff and we will post it to our customer gallery
@@RobCosmanWoodworking post here or another location?
Hi Rob, bought a Jack plane mainly on price (Stanley Sweetheart) and enjoy using it. Added a 51/2 from Busy Bee and switch back and forth. However as you say, sharpness is key to good planing.
That hand plane mold for shooting boards is genius!! Want one! I built your shooting board 2 months ago (I didn’t know what I was missing!). Have been using it ALL THE TIME. Although my hand gets a sore spot in the palm. This is just what I need!
We are going to add a rubberized soft cover for it soon
I'm in the UK. My biggest waste of money was a Surform plane, this thing is like a mega open file. The only thing I've ever used it for in 50 years is rounding off fence posts.I agree with you about the 41/2" plane, I use itall the time, its always on my bench, Ive just had to buy a new blade but (even purchased from Axminster Tools) that the steel is as good as the old one. Other problem on my large bench plane, is that the cast iron has aged so that the bottom has raised areas where-ever the casting is thicker. I could spend hours scrapping to blue on a plate glass, but haven't the patience, so I'm looking out for a firm with a surface grinder to true it all up. I hads an old 7 where the surface grinder had to take off 15 thou to get it flat and the same on the sides to get it back straight and flat.
Ive never got on with those pull saws. My favourite was made by Sorby and that too was my grandfathers.
Its nice having old tools that were my Grandfather's that are 150 years old, but their maintenance needs some effort.
During the lock-downs I couldn't buy new throw-aways when they got blunt. A diamond three square file worked a treat, bu you cant reset them.
Thanks. Im a traditional carpenter from Norway. Like your videos.
I like your other comments about saws and chisels and block planes. Although my Stanley block has a blade adjustment so it is easy to set.
Excellent video. Thanks. Just out of curiosity I was wondering why the longer hair.
Protest against government overreach! They have forgotten who they work for! The shop where I got my hair cut went out of business as a result of the last stupid, useless shutdown. Notice none of the big stores shut down. Hair stays till that idiot trudeau is gone!
Thanks for responding. Love your videos. Government overreach seems to be a growing international trend sad to say....@@RobCosmanWoodworking
I have a Veritas low angle jack plane. It was pretty much useless as a shooting plane but works beautifully otherwise. I purchased a #6 from Cosman. It's a little large for shooting but works well for that. It doubles for use jointing medium length pieces for musical instruments I make. The first pricey saw I bought was a gent's saw. I never use it. I have Narex mortise chisels which do have sloped sides. I have learned to use them passably well.
As a crotchety old boat builder it's a bit of a surprise that I don't disagree with anything you say and completely agree with the 4 1/2, 5 1/2, and low angle block plane recommendations.
you are a wise, crotchety, old boat builder!
Very stimulating discussion. Left me thinking.
then it was worth watching
tell you camera man to hold the camera steady when they are sipping their beer.
On starting to watch this I wanted to give you an argument BUT your findings are completely right though I would like to mention that the traditional adjustable mortice gauge is still fit for purpose and yes it is hard to see the marking pin but with practice all traditional gauges work fine. Just my thoughts.
Rob, you present some good arguments for your tool choices; while l learned to cut dovetails pins first with a dozuki, it was in relatively soft poplar and while l have been a planeophile and still love my collection l may devote a little more time to two 51/2s l have. Thanks for your input.
Excellent info and I agree with everything you pointed out. Like you I have tools that I don't use. If not a collector piece, they need to go because I just don't have the space and they will just corrode. Thanks!
Saw comments most interesting! Thanks for insight. More than just tension vs compression.
Yes it is and I didnt even touch on the tooth sharpening issues
Just modified the handle of a number 4 plane to suit my larger hand and now it's so much more comfortable and easy to use. I also made it suit my right handedness.
Great video as always! The practical advice is always welcomed because the quality of your work backs up your opinions! Thank you for sharing! Take care👍🏻
My pleasure!
I love you work. The explanations you offer for the reasons of your dislikes of the tools are all very intelligent & useful. BTW you look fabulous for a 700 year old!
I haven't popped in for a while. I didn't recognise you with the long hair at first. Then I heard then sense you spoke and realised, "yeah, this is the guy I remember". 😄 Great recommendations.
I've been a woodworker since 1977. But that took me in a different direction. I don't do masterful hand work like you. Mine took me to Formica and cabinetry and house trim work.
You demonstrated cutting a pin with a back saw. If I attempted that the piece would be wrecked!
i wonder if i agree with all of your points so wholeheartedly because i learned so much of what i know about hand tools from you. i guess i should be thanking you for shaping my woodworking preferences and opinions as well as teaching my how to do handtool woodworking the correct way. love the channel, love your saws (have 3 so far) and all of the other tools i have from your store. i have the whole set of ibc bench and mortise chisels and i cannot tell you how much better they are than any other i own.
Great to hear!
Sir I like the way you teach and I have subscribed to your channel.
I own a no 4 wood plane it’s the only one I have. I think it’s brilliant. Would very much like a bigger one. Dove tail saw you call it we call it a tennon saw another wonderful tool very precise. I like it. As the for the Japanese saw I’ve seen them about but don’t like the look of them. Anyway wonderful video some great information.
Opinions back by explanations of solid reasoning and experience are much more useful than mere stated conclusions. Thanks for a great video!
I have an No 62 LN low angle jack and find the performance is way better than a no 5 Stanley bevel down plane. I put it down to the way the cutting edge is better supported. There is much more steel behind where the force is applied. The bevel down blade is supported by the frog that is some mm above the sole and the cutting force acts to bend the blade. I put a bevel on the underside of the no62 and reduce the top bevel angle to get an even lower cutting angle without sacrificing edge strength. The mouth adjustment is easy and the slightly further forward position of the cutting edge, with the underside bevel, can be compensated for without pulling things apart. I use my no 62 all the time on Australian hardwood with good effect. The very hard cryogenic treated blade is a big advantage too.
Thanks man! That just helped me decide which planes I need to start with and purchase. Newbie/novice here. Retail store I visited yesterday had a #3 on sale for a decent price. Not the #4 1/2 or #5 1/2 though. I almost impulsively bought that #3. 🤣🤣🤣
I bought a board stretcher and it works great I can stretch a 1' board to 4 ' now I've got all this extra lumber.
As a regular hand plane user and collector of vintage planes I would agree with many of you par hand plane conclusions. Many years ago I decided to build up a fully restored set of Bedrocks. I patiently collected all the parts from eBay, applied genuine asphaltum ( 16:49 not paint) to the beds and then fitted all units with a cutter from Ron Hock. The result was a set of very useful planes are my users. Regarding the # 51/2 I found the Ron’s regular 41/2 or 51/2 cutter fit the # 41/2 but not the #5 ½ where it was a tad too wide. Ron very kindly took it back and milled a fraction off. The resulting # 51/2 is a very useful tool and one I use regularly along with #41/2. I like the additional heft. It also has a corrugated sole.
Great information Rob. Would be great to see a demonstration on how to sharpen the cutting wheel on the marking gauge. Hello from Australia.
Sharpen the cutter on your flat ceramic stone
We have that on video. Do a search on our channel for "Sharpening odd shaped blades"
Good day Rob, very informative video. Would you be blessed to show the recommended tools and brands of your alternative ones buy?
Just got my Woodriver 5-1/2! Looking forward to using it a whole lot!
Urrggg I have a set of those Narex mortise chisels… oh dear. To be fair I haven’t used them and they were a gift. Thanks to you though, Rob, I have a Clifton 5 1/5 bench plane, which is wonderful and is used on every project
Tip #8 was gold for me!! Thank you! 😃
I reach for my #3 smoother more than any other smoothing plane! I also love Japanese style pull saws for lots of different tasks, but not ripping dovetails. I guess it goes to show that everybody does stuff slightly differently to suit their own preferences! (But even if I disagree with some specifics, having videos like this to make people think before they buy is fantastic!)
I'm almost in agreement. I love my LN62, and for all the planes I have, my actual go to is an old, but well tuned up Stanley 605 with a Hock blade. We could all sit and debate all our hand planes for hours/days/years, have a great time, consume enormous amounts of beer and never agree on a thing.
Thanks for the saw tips, I get why the dovetail saw is the best :)
I’m buying a new dovetail saw, thanks very informative.
My first hand plane was a tool auction, bargain bin, Miller's Falls 4 1/2 with a corrugated sole. A 45 minute tune-up, and a Hock blade 20 years ago is all I've ever done to this plane. I also own My grandfather's 5 1/2 Stanley. They are all I ever use.
My main working planes are a Stanley number 5+1/2 with a Veritas PMV11 blade and a Lie Nilsen low angle jack - they definitely both stay sharp and work very well
I was going to remark about how much I like my low angle jack, but realized that really, it is a mixture of the mass and the low bevel angle. I occasionally have prepared microscope slides of different woods, trying to identify them, and the low angle jack works really well for the extremely thin, end shavings I want. I do use it for very light modifications when squaring the edge of a board, but I followed your advice about the 5.5 and 4.5 and like both.
I find that the 62 has very low mass compared to other jack planes, which is one of my complaints about it. I am glad it works well for you
I bought a #62 from an itinerant woodworker at a woodworkers show in Vancouver. He thought the #62 was the greatest plane ever made. You might know him--he was a lot younger than you--but his voice sounded exactly like yours. Do you have a brother or cousin also named Rob Cosman? Or maybe you just changed your opinion? That would be an interesting video.
Never been a fan however the company I represented pushed the low jack as the best “first plane”. I loved the 4 1/2 for a long time till I got to know David Charlesworth, 5 1/2 rules!
Thanks for the opinions, sir. Good stuff indeed.
Wonderful information I like words of wisdom from a pro, not wishy washy we’re they argue both sides and leave you still undecided
31 seconds in and I'm 100% with you on the Narex mortising chisel. I'll never get the night back from flattening one.
Been there when I tested them
Hi Rob. I totally agree on your opinion about planes. Even 100 years ago marketing was a thing. If Stanley just would have had a couple of nice types of planes in the catalogue, capable of doing every single job, they would have sold only those and sales would have stalled rather soon. How did they fix their dropping sales figures? Indeed, by expanding the catalogue by dozens of different types. I have 2 planes, a four and a six. That's it. Never felt the need to buy another one.
Всегда с большим вниманием слушаю мастера, много полезной информации. Спасибо, здоровья и благополучия.
Thanks
I really appreciate these instructional videos. I agree with most of what you said. I have been doing wood working for only a few years as a hobby. So not a ton of hours in the craft. I have heard many recommendations that I can't wrap my head around the logic. You just explained it for me. Instinctively I disagreed with some tool suggestions and you just told me why they "felt" wrong. Thank you.
Glad to help. Thanks for commenting
I love opinions. Especially those from experienced folks.
I wish I could say that about everyone !!!!
You are so right about the Japanese saws.
"the bevel is underneath"... well, I think I figured out why I've been having such a hard time using my plane. Thank you.
Yup, if you flip it around its not fun to use
A great set of suggestions born from what appears to be much experience. Thank you.
I like my No 4 as my hands are a lot smaller than yours. The 4½ feels a little less controllable but having watched this I'll dust it off, sharpen it up and give it another go.
A sharp 4-1/2 and you should be able to easily control it
Here you are being reasonable and everything… I couldn’t find anything to argue about 😂
Thanks for sharing your experience, it’s much appreciated
Great advice as usual. Question- is the hair a personal choice or is there a reason behind it???
I've heard your name on several other video's but this I think is the first time I've watched one.
Personally, I do very little woodwork even though I do enjoy hand planing. (I trained as a precision machinist and was a motorcycle technician/instructor, etc)
The only one of the tools you showed that I actually own is the last one, carbide blade round marking gauge.
I actually don't like it and find a conventional rosewood pin type much easier to use, the larger size of beam is far more comfortable.
Hence the reason “variety is the spice of life”!
I have one of the two planes my grandfather used. I have a smoothing plane he made shortly after he emigrated to the US in 1902. The other is maybe a 3 size plane he acquired in the early 20s.
Low angle jack I will say is much easier to sharpen. Do not have the extra fuss of the chip breaker. I appreciate that. Though I'm not adjusting the knob all the time like you are.
Although, not having the lateral adjuster is a problem. Find that the angle gets knocked out of wack occassionally with tough end grain.
BUT, in the end, you get what you pay for. The 5 + 5 1/2 are typically more expensive that the No. 62. Nearly $80 more for a Lie-Nielsen.
(Basically, I just sold myself on needing a 5 1/2 now.)
Sharpening a low angel and a standard angle is exactly the same, there is no difference just because of the bedding angle of the plane
@@RobCosmanWoodworking I just mean having to disassemble the blade from the chip breaker. Extra little step, gotta grab the allen wrench, etc
Thanks for the helpful information. Your right. But you don’t have to get the most expensive. Like me you can’t afford it but I can get my old planes and I can get those whisky shavings as good as your fancy Woodriver I paid for mine 15 to 20 dollars. 13 dollars for my old kutter king had to get blade leaver adjustment but it’s good now. Your good wood worker. You’re one of the top 5. God bless you.
Well Mr. Rob, I agree on 8 out of 9. I bought new Stanley 62& that #4with the adjuster that doesn't work the #4 is in shop under a lot of dust the 62 I gave to a nice young man who is getting into craft. My goto is W.R. 5 1/2 my disagreement comes in block plane. I was given a Stanley 102 i think it fits in your hand , apron pocket . Great video. Keep em coming.
yes a 102 probably does fit the hand well as its cap dose not sit very high. but a 102 is a "special" plane and I was referring to a "Standard" size block plane
Rob, Thank you for taking time to answer my comment. I really know very little about the small block planes the man gave me and he has passed on . I just know it feels good when I pick it up and use it not like some of the newer planes I have bought the past couple of years. What happened to "Stanley "? I'm sure we both know. Have a great weekend looks like winter heading ya'lls way.
In the USA, Auto workers are on strike. Are barbers on strike in Canada?
Mine was forced out of business by illegal heavy handed government mandates!
Liked your review (valued) but loved the front and center 2nd ID patch, Indianhead! I was a 2nd Infantry Division "Tomahawk" 2/23 in Korea.
I've noticed that there are a lot more poor quality tools on offer then there used to be, so you have to be careful when choosing. I agree with you about the feel of a tool, if it doesn't feel right in your hand it won't work right and you will stop using it.