How to Stop Running Wide in Corners
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 มิ.ย. 2021
- Running wide in corners is killing us! Why has this been a problem for so many riders for so long. Perhaps your riding coach or instructor had it wrong?
Check out these two great videos about Counter Steering:
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#countersteering #trailbraking #canyonchasers
I am 61 and have ridden motorcycles since 14 years old. Since discovering and watching your channel, I started trail breaking and choosing my lines differently, amongst other skills I learned. I am living proof you can teach an old dog new tricks.
I live in the Hinterland of Northern New South Wales, Australia. This area is very popular for riding because of the winding mountain roads, but many tight bends have crosses and other memorials on the side of the road, where riders ran wide and killed themselves, and continue to do so. Most recently, a 21 year old man who collided with an oncoming truck after failing to take a tight bend on a down hill slope. I was unfortunate enough to witness the carnage several minutes after his accident. It brings home the reality of the dangers of riding motorcycles.
Because of your clear and highly effective way of teaching through this medium, I now have new skills which make me feel a lot safer and in control of my machines. I actually feel safer whilst riding.
I wish I could pull over riders who are clearly needing your guidance and make them watch your videos, but I can’t. I do however encourage every rider I know to watch your channel.
Thank you for your contribution to motorcycle safety. God knows how many lives you saved already.
Just like only go as fast as you can stop in that distance, it is great advice, but a large about of riders don't do it :(
@Colin Southern sadly I don't think it's a matter of age.. a friend of mine is 50 (I am 30) and every time I follow him closely (close to him but not inside his exhaust obviously) he begin to run wide in a lot of turns. As soon as I roll off the throttle and place a turn between us his riding become smoother and safer.. I think that most riding errors are due to arrogance and competitive riding. A lot of bikers will ride above their skill if you approach them and after you leave them behind. We must understand that on the streets we must left competitive riding at home.
As a similarly aged rider from the same state as the author of this thread and having ridden as long I agree to the sentiments within however I am reminded of Soichiro Honda’s observation that racing improves the breed. Any rider who has sessioned a race track on road or off will have grasped trail braking early on. As a life saving technique the benefits can’t be understated and this is CC’s third or fourth attempt at communicating the message and several other youtubers to boot. As a rider I rarely ride in a group where one or more riders don’t spear off road due to their inability to apply technique due to the panic under the circumstances and one is left with the realisation that more practical lessons are needed. Racing or Raceday training help to embed trailbraking particularly when riding at 8/10ths and could be the lifesaver a rider needs when push comes to shove. Given returning riders 45 years and over are the leading statistic within motorcycle rider groups and given they would normally have some disposable income to invest in rider training then I think it’s a no brainer.
@@colinsouthern NAILED IT!
@@colinsouthern No, racing improves the breed for two reasons: 1) If a vehicle can be made to survive race conditions (engine doesn't overheat, brakes don't fade, etc), then any of those parts/changes applied to the production model will.improve it. Look how cars used to overheat in stop and go traffic in the 60's and 70's, but rarely do anymore. 2) The same concept is true with drivers/riders as well. If a rider like Kenny Roberts can win on a racetrack, then it's likely those same techniques can be used on the streets to make the person better. And I just don't mean speed. Kenny already knew about trail braking, about watching for hazards, about accelerating at the right time -- in other words, skills that can be used on the track and street. Just like few woukd stay with him on the racetrack, I doubt few could stay with him down a canyon road either.
Racing is not an oasis. The skills earned in racing still can be used on the street as well. Hardware that works in racing will also work well on the street. Look at the Corvette, especially the z06 model, and the Camaro, especially the 1LE model. These are perfect examples of racing improving the car line. In fact, it has been said that disc brakes on vehicles, and many other innovations, were first used in racing. I hope this helps.
My MSF instructor was great. After class he stated "Ok, I am off the clock, you are no longer being taught MSF material" and then taught us what trail braking was and why it is superior, safer and actually natural to slow until you can see the exit of the curve you are in. After the test where he required us to apply "Slow, look, press and roll" he reminded us "ok, now never do that again".
10:57 🤯 you read my mind. How'd you do that.
@@colinsouthern I don't know where you see MSF ridercoaches riding with modular helmets with the face up and I definitely know you don't see MSF ridercoaches riding with students on public roads. If you see someone doing this then they are not teaching an MSF that is taught in San Diego. The MSF offers a course where instructors take people out on public streets but it is not offered in San Diego. I'm assuming you are referring to the San Diego area since you mentioned Convoy. The course that was taught there was not an MSF course nor was it a Total Control course or any other course that was provided by the CMSP which is the California Motorcycle Safety Program. That was a company that charged you a few hundred bucks to rent their motorcycles and they would give you a quick little class then take you out for some street rides and then you took the bike and rode it for a week. You like most people that are bad mouthing MSF ridercoaches and Total Control MTC instructors have no idea what it is like or what is required to be one. In order to be an instructor for any legitimate program it requires that you follow the curriculum. You are not there to teach how you think people should ride a motorcycle. You are their to teach them how the curriculum developer wants them to ride a motorcycle and any deviation from that prescribed curriculum will quickly get you decertified. Curriculum developers for these programs have invested thousand of hours of Beta testing and employ people with PHDs in adult centered learning to develop these courses. If you think trailbraking wasn't evaluated, Beta tested, and deemed too difficult of a motor skill for entry level riders to absorb then you know next to nothing about these programs. They have to be set up to teach to a wide range of people men and women from 15 years old to people 90+. After over a decade of teaching these programs I can tell you that they are by no means perfect. That being said there is nothing stopping you from developing your own curriculum and spending the time, effort, and money to have it recognized as legitimate by the motorcycling community. Or perhaps contacting a site administrator and seeing if you would be allowed to shadow an instructor and possibly find out what it takes to be one before you talk trash.
@@victorkazlman1501 Excellent points. Braking in a corner is an advanced skill that should be approached with caution by less experienced riders or those whose riding style isn't performance orientated.
@@michaelmessier5780 I totally agree with canyonchaser that trail braking is an important skill. The issue I have is people don't understand that techniques that are developed on the track aren't always 100% transferable to the streets. I trailbrake on the track but something that doesn't get mentioned by people that are proponents of the technique is all the variables on the street that you don't deal with on the street. There are literally hundreds of things that commonly happen on the streets that are highly unlikely to arise on the track. I've never been on a road that had corner workers signaling you that unexpected hazards are ahead. I've never been on a track and had to deal with an animal in my path of travel. The whole idea of being on a track is that it limits variables so you can concentrate on repeating techniques that improve your lap times and eliminate techniques that cost you time.
@@victorkazlman1501 the only thing that I do on the track that I don't do on the street is full grand prix body position. Everything else: eyes, trailbraking, moving weight to the inside of the bike, etc... Alllll of it is directly applicable to the street. In fact, I'd argue trailbraking is MORE important for street riders, as there are more hazards and more blind corners. Because radius = mph, I can easily sneak around obstacles by either adding more brake pressure or adding a little throttle and changing my line.
Without a doubt trail braking is the single most important technique I've ever picked up after getting my licence. I used to occasionally have those tighter than expected corners where I struggled to keep in my lane and scare the crap out of me. Trail braking has made my riding so much more enjoyable as I know I'm in the position to handle the unexpected and I essentially never run wide. A lifesaver.
There’s a good chance that watching the videos on trail braking from this channel has already saved my life. I just cannot thank you enough man!
I’m a new rider, and only a few months after getting my first bike, I feel in a total complete control of the vehicle. I literally stopped caring if I know the road or I’m riding it for the first time, whether a corner is wide or super-tight, uphill or downhill, exit visible or not - I have A LOT of safety margin at ALL times. If a deer jumps on the road mid-corner - I can emergency brake to a full stop while fully controlling my bike. It’s an extremely liberating feeling.
PS: Im not sure if anyone needs advice on how to adopt the technique from a beginner rider like myself, but here it comes...
Be conservative, like I was. I just saw a random guy from the internet giving me advice - there are plenty of those - and they contradict each other. I bought the premise though, that is, IT JUST CANNOT be right that every corner is a “leap of faith” - which is exactly how I felt. Now, whether trail braking solves it or not... well I’m not gonna take anyone’s word for it - I’m gonna find out myself. And I did, very cautiously, tiny little baby steps, very slow, very modest corners, then tighter, then quicker... As I kept doing it I learned that my bike is RIDICULOUSLY stable while continuing braking mid corner - there’s no hint of losing stability or anything like that. I also learned that there’s no “right” time when to stop braking as you’re turning. You stop braking simply when you’re comfortable - when you see the exit (MOST important), and your speed & lean is such that you know 100% you’re gonna make that corner - it will obviously be different for every rider.
Finally, the “basic version” of the technique is really foolproof, and requires very little finesse. I’m the living proof, since a newbie like myself has found it really easy to adopt. I’m sure the pro riders do it much better, more refined, but it doesn’t matter because the basics is enough to feel 100 times safer than I was before.
And it is NOW, only after convincing myself on MY OWN bike that the technique works, that the random guy from the internet has won my trust... And endless gratitude.
A week after getting my first big displacement bike, I was invited to a 500 kilometer ride on mountain roads.
As I only started riding scooters a year before, I knew I had a serious skills handicap. So I enrolled in Honda Big Bike Intermediate riding class where they taught Slow Look Press & Roll (SLPR). I also watch a lot of TH-cam videos and learned about Trail Braking, mainly on Canyonchasers.
During the ride, I quickly abandoned SLPR after running wide in a couple of corners. Switching to Trail Braking, I was able to keep pace with Group 3--veteran riders with at least 100,000 km riding experience.
During recognition night, many couldn't believe that it was my first mountain ride on a big bike. When I told them about trail braking, most of them never heard about it, and quite a few when on to lecture me about how wrong and dangerous it is.
One year later, I am riding with the fastest and most experienced riders in Group 1. I am happy to share that it has influenced many of my riding mates to adopt Trail Braking as well.
Good on you! I can't believe that road riders are taught such a dangerous technique! On track as mentioned then yes it's a way to go fast but in the road? No way! Just be careful that you don't overload the front tyre with braking as you start to make the turn. If I ever start to run wide gently roll throttle off while increasing lean angle and feather the rear brake. Using the rear helps to avoid too much weight transfer to front and over loading the front tyre. Safe riding! 👍
Spot on, Phill. Maybe you want to check my comment above and leave your thoughts, but we seem to share the same riding technique .
@@firestorm755 fast riders on track dont do it, they trail brake and accelerate on the apex of the corner, that technique is good for your first time on the track to learn your apex's and brake markers
@@firestorm755 SLPR is also not good for the track. If you check out Simon Crafar's Motovudu series, you'll see that (as a former Grand Prix 500 racer) he advocates entering turns on a closed throttle, and slowing all the way to the apex.
The advice to feather the brakes both on and off has helped my riding so much. It just feels right to be progressively letting off the brake as the counter steering adds lean. Accelerating through the whole corner only makes sense with a corner that begins tight and opens up, and is on flat or uphill ground. Now face that same corner in the opposite direction with it being downhill and tightening up, and accelerating through the whole corner will have you barrelling into a nightmare.
Exactly!!!
Took the MSF Advanced Riding Techniques class a couple of months ago. Now they said forget what you learned in BRC... you're gonna learn to Trail Brake! I'm glad I waited no more than a year between the courses.
MSF deserves a lot of credit for evolving!
@@wascallyrabbit7169 They are in a sense learning to use the brakes in curves during the "Stopping in a Curve" exercise. Specifically at the gradual stop and pretty much every time they stop to get back in line. I really don't think it would be a good idea to try teaching trail braking in the BRC, a beginner class with only 2-5 hour days. People who take the BRC could be someone who has never touched a motorcycle before to a 20 year rider who never took a course. With no fine motor skills, the first timers will be put at a much higher risk if they apply too much brake pressure. There are students who can barely make the curves in the circuit exercises in the first place, why add another thing for a first time rider to think about?
@@wascallyrabbit7169 Because the most common reason thst new riders drop bikes at beginner level training is inadvertent front brake application. Entry level riders tend to tense up when they get scared and no matter how slow you start out inevitably you will have scared riders. When riders have their hand on the front brake and tense up they usually over apply the front brake. I believe that trailbraking is a better technique for cornering but it's to complicated of a motor skill for a first day on a motorcycle rider to grasp. I assure you that most of the people in this comment section questioning the methodology of entry level training courses have never taught a new rider.
@@victorkazlman1501 I agree I recently taught my buddy how to ride his bike since his MSF course was a month out and he wanted to get comfortable so that he had a basic understanding and an advantage going into the class. Not having any experience teaching a new rider I decided to stick with the absolute basics so not to accidentally ingrain bad habits into him. Boy, not realizing how difficult it can be fore some people who have never used a manual transmission to grasp the concept and motor skill required to just utilize the clutch correctly. It’s in my muscle memory built into me. We riders can immediately get that friction zone and add the perfect throttle for smooth take off while blind folded with numb hands lol. But for my buddy he was having about 50% success rate with taking off or stalling. I realized that riding takes an extreme amount of fine motor skills with all parts of your body all at the same time. Tons of multitasking. So if that hasn’t become muscle memory then you have to THINK about everything at once. So having to think about throttle control, suspension, curve line, the apex, when to lean, how far to lean, entry speed, on top of trying to focus on trailbraking all at once is most certainly a disaster waiting to happen. Personally, I believe a new rider shouldn’t be taught how to corner twisties until they become completely confident in operating the bike as if it was second nature. They need time to get throttle control down, clutch and gear management, safe braking. Then go to some soft corners and get comfortable leaning bits at a time, then taking some twists slowly. THEN they should focus on more advanced skills like trail braking into tighter corners.
@@victorkazlman1501 Also I’m not a super experienced rider as I myself am learning to master trailbraking and trying to ingrain that into myself. I have a lot of people that depend on me so I am a very cautions and conservative rider. I haven’t even been on the mountain roads that are literally 10 minutes away from me yet because they don’t even have guard rails in a lot of parts so if I swing too wide just one time then that’s it for me. I want to enjoy the twists and that beautiful road but flying off a mountain just isn’t an option. So until I master my skills I’m not going up there
This might be the most important motorcycle video ever made
👍
The 22 dislikes are instructors, or insurance companies. .. Some instructors are ok riders, but yes, ones that don't teach trail braking are cultists for Insurance companies surely.
@@andrewmasonwerdna Really? Come on. Have you taught beginner motorcyclists? There are strict parameters put on the classes and how they can be taught. Here in CA, the classes are overseen by CHP. The classes have been designed to give essential skills to people who have never been on a bike. No one wants people to crash and it's naive to think that new riders, many of whom have never even operated a clutch of any kind and who are overwhelmed during their two-day intro class, can be taught technical riding in those limited hours. Should the intro class be longer and more complex? Maybe. But I think most governments are happy to have riders just get any training at all and a lot of students balk at the price and commitment already. You'd be amazed how many people are riding motorcycles without M licenses because they don't want to take the class or the exam.
@@artmotocafela7874 "off the clock" yes ive taught beginners in 30seconds, had also been taught in the 30second method, which was the entire 3 day course, so i had went in to the course literally watching videos for 4months, and using common sense. I pushed bike to limit almost instantly, as did most others. they are 125cc, nothing to be scared of, yet one person jumped a curb to 8ft down to flat and didn't blow the fork seals but went home, other person redlined first into the side of the metal container, injured.
The instructors that same day taught the "close it down and pump down the gears" so one day i did that on my bike, I drifted 150m my 2nd day, not realizing "dont do it in a corner" cause i was never taught, so yes, make the courses more expensive and more information.
Most teachers were great riders but they didn't understand the full spectrum of why, or how to explain themselves "on the clock." cause they want you to teach via curriculum, so maybe break the "rules" which are putting peoples lives at risk, in my opinion.
Definitely on my top 3 alongside with ghostrider's Uppsala run, and Maxwrist's winding road assault when he was stationed in Italy
Great to see CanyonChasers back!!
For one thing I learned in riding ( among other), no method can be taught as the absolute truth. Very often the physic of the situation is way too complex to fit a generic model. The only way to avoid going too fast in a single corner is to go in every corner a bit too slow...
I thought trail braking was some extravagant complicated technique but didn’t even realize I’ve been doing it since I’ve started riding. My rider course made me terrified to brake in a corner, but I’ve always had a small amount of break pressure through corners because it just felt right. And now I know why, damn!
Agree 100%. The "Twist of the Wrist" accelerate through corners technique is a nightmare, especially for downhill bends - and even more so if they are ones which tighten up as you go through them. For years I had been brainwashed into thinking it was just my "survival reactions" making these seem so bad, but the truth was exactly the opposite - that you can control the radius of the turn by light braking, and that this is (and feels) much safer.
I feel like you're mischaracterizing what they teach. They don't teach to accelerate through the corner. They teach to have throttle control in general and save your acceleration for the exit. They also teach trail braking in later levels of the school. They have a real emphasis on vision, which is why there are x's on the track. Out on the street, every corner is different and you need different techniques and skills to get through them safely. It seems a lot of people ride too fast for the road they're on. "If you want to go really fast, have a track day, don't do it on Angeles Crest Highway" should perhaps close out every class. It would be great if all schools taught trail braking in lower levels, but I guess they're worried that new riders, who often don't have a feather touch on their brakes, will use too much pressure. Motorcycling is incredibly technical and I think that isn't obvious when you first learn to ride.
@@artmotocafela7874 Well said. Exactly my opinion.
@@artmotocafela7874 I would just add, that again and again someone is comparing well performed trail braking with shit throttle opening. When apples to apples is shit braking with shit throttle opening. Sad is, that both techniques are subtle, and very close to each other.
@@artmotocafela7874 Thank you. At least one person here has a brain.
"Rolling on" the throttle doesn't mean "whiskey throttle" it.
If anyone actually bothers to read ATOTW, it plainly tells you to USE A LIGHT TOUCH, or you can either underload or overload the bike, and to apply the throttle CONSISTENTLY, EVENLY, and SMOOTHLY through the turn.
People are blaming the technique, when the problem is themselves.
@@khatdubell maintenance throttle through the corner with light braking at different pressure depending on the corner radius, gravel, road hazards
Trail braking was the eureka moment that made riding down really twisty mountains nearly as much fun as riding up the mountains. I never felt under control using slow press roll down steep twisty mountains. Whereas trail braking feels natural and confidence inspiring. I still have to plan well ahead so I’m not charging corners downhill.
I’m 57 and have been riding bikes since I was 13. I wish I had known about the techniques you are telling us about. It makes so much sense and makes me feel in better control of my bike. Thanks so much.
I’ve been riding 3 years, it was my bucket list 62 nd birthday present to myself. You, Motojitzu, mostly have taught me trail braking! Most valuable info! I practice it all the time and don’t run wide in corners anymore! Love riding my z650🤙🏻💕
Cindy
“Oh shit braking,” love it.
hahahha yeah, had to pause just to giggle about it!
Thank you for releasing this message. Having been a rider coach myself, I have seen a number of mantras like this that don't make sense; it's one of few reasons I am no longer an MSF instructor. Trail braking is taught to be an "advanced" skill (also referred to as a "track-only" skill), but I feel that it's one of the basic ones and an essential one at that. Again, thanks for bringing this important skill to light.
As a new rider years ago, I wrecked because I added lean angle to keep my radius while adding throttle like I was told. Then I hit a decreasing radius corner on the Snake in Malibu and found the gutter. Learning to 1) trail brake and 2) wait to roll on the throttle till I could see my exit were game changers. Works in almost any corner, even the ones where you need throttle to maintain speed in the corner -- just wait till you can see your exit.
Difference between maintainance throttle and acceleration. Also you can accelerate while trail braking! Still manipulating the suspension of the bike but not slowing down, so many people taught to not use the brakes when turning and its so rediculous. The brakes do so much more on a motorcycle than just slow the bike!
Nick Ienatch has some good videos on trail braking for safer spirited riding.
@@michaelgriffin1601 I don't think throttle will make things better while holding the brake. The point is to move a little weight on the front wheel and the only way to do that reliably is to slow down. The fork compression is only a visible side effect of moving the weight, it's not a goal in itself. If you also use throttle then you are probably keeping a constant speed (or accelerating). The result of the conflicting commands is that you loose some grip on both wheels and maybe you also get some compression of the fork, but not the good kind. I recommend you reevaluate that technique...
@@viocudinti I have to disagree. Unknown corner, opens up midway, you can accelerate while still trail braking. Radius = mph/kph. Trail braking while accelerating on a turn that opens up maintains geometry, keeps controlled input on the bike and keeps options open for the rider going through the corner. Not all corners are a smooth line.
Thanks for the advice, Shmoopy. I live in Devon UK and it didnt take long after passing my test to realise that the corner braking method i was taught didnt work on our windy roads.
Either you didn’t live through the 70s OR your experience was WAAAYYYYY different than mine. 🤣
The dude may know how to ride but he doesn't know shit about music in the 70s.
@@michaelmessier5780 It was a mixed bag. We got some great Metal, but also Disco - I can see where he's coming from.
I'm pretty sure he wasn't even born yet in the 70s.
I had a great time in the 70’s. The music I listened to was amazing, Hendrix, Doors, Mahogany Rush, Pink Fairies, Judas Priest, Lynyrd Skynyrd….the list goes on forever
Great video and similar to one I did on the subject of running wide. I've boiled it down to a simple instruction: Start braking before the corner and KEEP braking until you can see your exit and are happy with your speed. I really struggled with running wide and trailbraking was a literal lifesaver for me. Another part of the problem with instructors saying to "just lean more" is that we all have a mental lean angle barrier and when you hit it it's nearly impossible to push past it without some sort of panic that can upset the bike. It's much much safer to be on the brakes throughout the corner than to somehow trust that you're somehow going to get your entry speed right every single time.
Having an option beyond just "countersteer more" is a good thing!
Dude, the movies were absolutely amazing.
There were some good ones, but there was a whole lot of garbage.
@@Sw33tum there's always garbage in every era, but come on, the era that gave us Taxi Driver, Mad Max, The Godfather series, Enter the Dragon, and even On Any Sunday?
There was a lot that was much better... He obviously didn't live thru the era lol
@@MadScientist267 yeah, he must have been born in 1980 and already 10 years old. Or you can't do math and are overly nostalgic.
@@Sw33tum lol. Good one. 🙄
I was taught Slow, Look, Lean, Roll with the Roll part as maintenance throttle, just using the throttle to maintain the speed through the corner, rather than accelerating (which sounds dangerous). You then accelerate once you can see your exit. Trail braking was discussed as a technique to use if you needed it. I don’t find I often need to trail brake but then again I am fairly new to riding. I’m assuming it becomes more relevant as your experience increases and you start riding around a bit quicker.
Same here. I've taken a lot of classes and schools and I've never had anyone tell me to accelerate through a turn. It's maintain your speed and then accelerate at the exit. However, trail braking is really useful, especially on downhill curves, and I do wish they introduced it in lower level classes, but I know a lot of thought has gone into modern schools and they're doing it how they think is best. Here in CA, we don't have MSF anymore, but even with the new system, trail braking isn't introduced until the advanced class.
The question to ask, as suggested in this or another video, is how do you know you need it? By the time you realise you got it wrong do you have a time machine to get you back to the beginning of the corner?
I'm from Romania (Europe). Last year I went to a 3-day motorcycle course. After two days with the instructor at the track I gained more frustration than anything because I felt like my cornering was awful. It also didn't help that my so-called instructor wasn't telling me anything to correct my cornering approach.
After the 2nd day of the course, I got back home and I watch all of your videos on body positioning, counter steering and trail-breaking. Went back for the 3rd and final day at the track with the knowledge I gained after your videos. They made a world of a difference and even my instructor asked me what has happened from one day to the other, as I was riding much more correct and with more flow through the corners. I'm also more confident now when I ride street and feel more safe on my bike.
Thank you so much for the valuable and well-explained info!
I recently took an MSF-based class on cornering, and they really hammered on slow, look, press, and lean just as they did in the basic course. It was incredibly awkward for me to take many of the lines they wanted us to take using this method. I accept that the instructors are much better riders than I am, but in my experience trail braking is more practical for the streets. I give credit to this channel and Kevin at MC Rider for explaining the concept clearly enough to get me started.
Experience and practice can make up for bad technique.. but doesn't mean it's not bad technique 😉
It's the same with everything, I see it at work all the time.. people making the same overly complicated, nightmare to maintain software using techniques that "work" but are about 20 years past the best before date.. it runs, but not like it could..
Someone using better technique i would argue is better than someone who has been using an inferior technique but for longer. Those coaches will hit a point eventually where the slow, look, press, and roll will be dangerous through a certain type of turn but their experience will get them through it but you riding behind them at the same pace would have no safety issue at all. This will greatly reduce your chance of injury or death because you have better control over your machine and therefore are rolling the dice a lot less on whether or not your going to run wide into an oncoming vehicle or into a guard rail or off of a cliff.
Many of the MSF instructors can hardly ride them self. And are bad noob riders with out any high level training. Apparently they teaches people how to crash, not to ride good. I always brake in the corner, in 4 years of riding never crashed because of braking.
The funny thing is - being a complete nube, I was doing trail braking intuitively from day 1
That’s what I logged in here to say. I was doing it as a natural reaction but while thinking oh crap I wasn’t supposed to do that per what I had learned. This trail breaking he is talking about has to be practiced so that it can be done with more proficiency. That which I am speaking for myself.
I started in 1988 in the UK with no instruction. Trail braking is intuitive. So is a hook turn when you chop the throttle shut mid turn to tighten the line 👍🏻
Okay, I might have missed it. While I get the definition and concept of “trail braking”, i need to ask a noob question: What is going on with the clutch and throttle during the process?
Pretty much the same, then I learned that slow, look, press and roll is a correct way of going through corners. Well... not really, now back to learning how to trail brake.
@@heybruh3274 Clutch is out, throttle is closed, make sure you're in the right gear for the corner and speed you're driving.
Welp that's another video that's immediately going into the definitive Motorcycle Training Playlist.
Your videos have definitely helped me.
I appreciate the sharing of fantastic knowledge!
And for the Bottom of Barregarrow many think a "kipper for breakfast" and time spent with
the "wee ones" at the Fairy bridge way to go ...even ...META TARO BLURAY....if helps put you
in the "zone" (not a cult) !
I'm 80 years old and have been riding since I was 14. Being a cautious learner and several O %$#& moments early on I found what you have called trail braking. It probably saved my life more than once. Thank you for this video. It may let another rider make it to this age safely and still be riding.
Been practicing this for the last year or so since you convinced me the TB is the way to go. I then read a few books about motorcycle geometry, suspension setups and racing lines and every one of them concurs. I am not fast, but I'm on the brake (even 1%) until I want to stand the bike up again and can see the exit - feels better than even just maintenance throttle.
I didn't go to a "proper" motorcycle school. Instead I l went to the University of TH-cam like this fine channel as well as verifying the skills taught with the body and physics from actual riding. So it wasn't until very recently did I hear "Slow, look, press, and roll" for the first time. Applying that dated mantra to my riding now just seems absolutely insane, counter-intuitive, and anti-science.
Some of the TH-cam channels out there have really bad advice, especially in the comments. But this guy's is great.
Taught myself, too. We got a better education, believe me.
The days of people mocking youtube for providing information should be long past us. Its like saying a tv provides bad information. Sure you could watch a documentary out of your television about how the earth is flat, or you could watch the docuseries the universe and learn how things actually are and work. Plenty of bad advice on youtube but also so much great amazing advice free of charge and accessible to everyone! I have been carving up the rocky mountain twisties for the last 2 seasons getting more and more confident picking up the pace and can honestly not remember one time where i thought for a second i was going to go wide or fealt like i was not in control of where my bike was. You know why? Been trail braking since day one because of a few channels on youtube explaining why it is the only thing that makes sense when presented with the physics of how a motorcycles suspension and tires work. I have friends that im trying to teach this ans the cruiser dudes rarely are trail braking and have horrible form through the twisties and are always having butt pucker moments on the double yellow lines. Me? Going just as fast putting the tires on a rail right where i want them to be. Trail braking is the way! It also helps to ride within your skill level too and not push it on the street.
Though you can learn a ton of skills through resources like this, it's pretty important to have someone make sure you're practicing it correctly. I used to heavily rely solely on videos and forums for information, but as I took more and more courses I realized how much I how much I don't know. SLPR is important for beginners to teach the basic idea of cornering controls for someone who's never ridden before. It may be used for many corners as well depending on your preference. As we move on through the course we transition from SLPR to SSS (Search, Setup, Smooth). After taking the BRC1 or BRC2 I would strongly recommend everyone find someone that teaches ARC (Advanced Rider Course) as it teaches trail braking.
@@colinsouthern Rolling on the throttle throughout the corner every time is not what's being taught. In the scenario you have a good line and entry, you should be able to roll on the throttle exiting the corner... The beginner rider course you're also introduced to different ways to stop in a curve. Gradual stops: Using brakes in a curve to come to a stop. Quick Stops: Straightening to get the most braking. At no point has any coach I know said if you feel like you're going too fast in a corner continue rolling on the throttle. Abbreviations are used to help beginners remember the basics of something. (SLPR, SSS, T-CLOCS, SOHCAHTOA, PEMDAS, etc.) If you have it down congratulations, but that doesn't mean Timmy who never touched a motorcycle before does. You sound like you have a lot of experience, maybe you should consider being a ridercoach. :)
Saw.your video on this last year and have been undoing all the old school corner acceleration nonesence taught by so called ‘advanced’ instructors. Trail braking does work - fantastically so. You must be pleased to know you have saved many lives with your teachings on this, maybe you have saved mine. So grateful.
I have been riding motorcycles since 1966. I got my license in 1970, when I turned 16. So I never had a course as they weren't required back then. I had never hear of slow, look, press, roll until today. I would never have imagined that anyone would come up with such dangerous nonsense.
I don't have any trouble with corners. I don't go into them too fast and I don't accelerate until I can see what is up ahead. And I am not in a hurry to get anywhere. Just being on the bike is enough for me. I don't need to try to make it more exciting.
I LOVE the fact that you brought up calling the dog then scolding it.
I hate it when people do that.
Most times I mind my own business with bad owners, except that.
Glad you're back, and honestly somebody had to say it!!!
I felt like between my MSF course and my current abilities, I was mostly taught half truths just to get out on the road and start learning. It may be harder to learn how to correctly ride, but it is so vital and so important to safety that the old methods need to go.
Thanks to your instruction I’ve been consistently trail braking and delaying my apexes for the last 50,000kms of twisty mountain roads and am now consistently quicker, smoother and safer than guys who have been riding for longer on more powerful bikes. Thankyou, it has brought me a lot of joy in my life.
Probably still one of the most relevant motorcycle safety videos out there. This is probably my 20th time watching it.
You are absolutely right on this. I've been working on my trail braking the last couple of years but it's a difficult skill to master. Last time I ran wide was 2 years ago which I remember very well because I was upset at myself but I try to work on my trail braking whenever I can nowadays. And I do it very gently. Thanks for the reminder and science with this video
Ive been gradually introducing trail braking for the past few months, since i saw your video posted 2 years ago, tricky at first but works well
Trail braking is responible for most DNF in MotoGP and WSBK. I have tried it - not for me. Riding down the backside of East Canyon (Morgan County side) I cannot tell loose gravel from the road surface. The thought of any front brake while on loose gravel is spooky. I keep my wheels netural while turning. No braking, no dragging, no accelerating. What you teach makes sense for better riders. My kids perfer 70's music (i don't mean disco and jive) and jeans these days cause shoes to look like skis. Still a fan of 'bell bottoms'/Hash jeans. I could put my shoes on first. Ride on.
Have to mention…. I was taught trailbraking back in 2010 at a Laguna Seca race school coached by Ty Howard, and the late, great Michael Czysz. I was very slow at the school while adjusting to the new techniques, but it has been invaluable in the years since!
Thanks for the video. Making the pledge this season to work on trail breaking the most!
Ever since I started trail braking on the road I have never run in too hot to a corner or run wide. Been doing it for a couple of years now. Mainly through tight mountain roads.
I love these videos!!! They've kept me safe and improved my riding. Keep them coming!!
Thank you!!!
This video will probably save the life of someone who watched it. Not a trivial thing at all. Thank you.
Another life-saving tip for FREE.
We appreciate you!
Wow, nothing to say. Watching your videos has taught me a lot, your first video on trail breaking improved the way I ride in a way I cannot image before. Glad to see you back on TH-cam, contents like your are the ones who make internet a great place.
Thanks a lot for a new clip, Dave. ❤ I too was taught in the riding school to maintain steady throttle in corners to keep the best weight distribution between the wheels, but that technique is indeed not feasible for many real-world corners. I can honestly say that your videos on trailbraking and proper cornering posture were real eye-openers for me and made a world of difference in my riding (and in turn made it so much more enjoyable). I still return to them at least once a month to refresh my knowledge and the details.
@CanyonChasers, Dave, I have not been to a riding school (yet) but I have been riding for about 10 years now and have been watching your videos since about 3. And when practicing the techniques you teach/talk about here, I have to tell you, it makes so much sense... I can easily feel the massive difference in control I have over the bike compared to how I was riding before. I have had almost no 'oh shit' moments since following you despite upgrading to a slightly more powerful bike than before. Thanks a million man. A happy and a more grateful subscriber here.
Glad to see you back
Greetings from Brazil and thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. Congrats for you all. This channel is doing a great job and saving lives! Keep riding, Johnny Rider...👏👏🏍🏍🏍🏍
Love this channel. I’ve learn a ton and it has made me a safer rider. Can’t wait to see you at the track!
Friday!!
Thanks CC, top notch instruction that needs to be shouted from the rooftops! My Yamaha FJR1300 is 650 pounds and believe me, I wouldn’t dare enter a corner without Trail Braking…after a trip to the Smokey Mountains of North Carolina, on roads I’ve never been on before, Trail Braking (which I sometimes refer to as Anticipate the Unknown Braking) made that trip unforgettable…keep up the great work, helping to save lives.
I love that you put these videos out without a hint of trying to sell something. I know you do riding courses, and would love to pay you for one if I end up in your area.. but giving the problem description AND solution all without asking for a credit card is awesome. Thank you for your service to society, and keep doing what you're doing!
*Good stuff!* Your videos are in my head, and that's a good thing ! I use trail braking all the time especially in the Blue Ridge Mountains. My MSF basic was in January'21. (2019 Road King)
Once again awesome stuff - due to your earlier videos this was nice recap of simply driving smooth. And when you drive smooth you are in control and have the ability anticipate unforeseen situations! Can’t wait to watch your next video.
I'm really glad I found your channel here in YT. Watching your contents over and over, and applying it on my daily commute to work greatly improved my riding skills. Heck I even watch it while I'm prepping up for my weekend rides. I highly recommend your channel to all my friends who owns a motorcycle. Thank you for sharing these to us. Ride safe. Sending love and respect from Philippines.
makes sense. really good information and I accept the “run wide” challenge
Wow! Never thought I would be featured in Canyon Chasers video! Thanks, man!)
Yeah man! Your demonstration was so good it seemed to make more sense to use yours and hopefully send some viewers to your content at the same time.
Hi. I just finished my driving classes. I have to say I am unimpressed with the training curriculum (which is based on the requirements of my province's authorities in the matter) . Your video - which I had watched 2 months earlier - saved me from a crash during an instructor lead ride. And I have to thank you for it. It's certainly *not* the teachings I had received, nor the instructor's '20 years of riding experience' that helped me save my neck. Keep up the good work, it's not just great content, you save lives.
Wow!!!
Thank you for articulating this in a way that I cannot. This video is incredibly well thought out and put together.
This was my biggest question when I started riding 3 years ago. I finally get my answer 🙂
I always keep a finger or two on the front brake until I can see the exit of the curve. Way easier to control the bike while decelerating - great video
I'm going to practice again tomorrow 😊
Love your videos!
I ride a light weight but torquey Hypermotard. On this bike in tight twisty corners, trail breaking really pays off. The bike gives you so much confidence that you hit corners at much higher speeds than a heavy motorcycle and yet with a gentle front brake squeeze it slows, dives in and asks you to roll on the throttle again. Thank you for teaching us this, your a great coach and a good dog human. 🐕 😎✊
We have a hyper in the CanyonChasers stable. It's a brilliant bike!!
Fantastic video, as always. Love Mom trail braking with the Nissan :)
Best coach. I hear you when I ride, delayed apex, trail braking and my favorite “accelerating while adding lean angle is something I like to call “risky”.
Thank you sir.
I hear his "What do you do if you're coasting? Add more coast?" from one of his other videos 🤣
Glad to see you. Your videos and advice are the best, thanks for doing them they have helped me a lot. Maybe even saved my butt a couple of times.
I had indeed helped us A LOT!!! Thank you sooo much for the videos and awesome info!
Thanks Dave, your advice helps make me a better safer rider. NZ fan
Some good news - the state of California CHP level 1 safety course (the one you take to waive your license exam) is using the Total Control program from Lee Parks, and they no longer teach the oldschool slow, look, press & roll crap. I took the course probably 2 years ago, and the basic technique they taught was "SPAT : Speed, Position, Aim, Turn". Basically adjust your speed before everything else, adjust your body position, choose your line, then execute the turn - from that point on it's either no throttle at all, or "maintenance throttle only" until you exit the turn.
In the level 1 course they maintain that they don't want you using the brakes at all mid-turn, but they put specific emphasis on the fact that trail-braking is a better alternative to this, but too advanced to teach properly in the total beginner course.
Thats very good news!! MSF has also dropped the Slow, Look, Press and Roll thing too. It's super encouraging! But programs, like Oregon, teach Slow, Look, Roll, Press. Get on the gas before you even initiate the lean!! Yikes!!
I also get emails from riders in the UK and some programs over there are still really dedicated to the old-school way too.
Unfortunately they are still teaching braking while still on the throttle.
I'm about to take my first lesson this week. Really appreciate the tone of your videos; not condescending and easily explainable for us newbies to understand. Really appreciate your honest approach to what awaits us new riders.
Well done, sir!!
Absolutely love this channel. I don’t often have the patience to watch a 14 min video but I did for this. I started trail-braking a year or so ago based on another of your excellent videos on the topic but this was a brilliant refresher as to the “why” behind it. The level of confidence I have going into corners with this method compared to SLPR is hugely improved. Thank You!!
SLPR seems like an abbreviation of “slipper.” fitting, considering the effect it causes.
Great video. And I had already been thinking trail braking before you got there. 👍🏻
OMG! I’ve been waiting for someone to say this out loud!!
Fantastic video! Thanks for the insight and I look forward to your next videos!
Just learning to ride and this was immensely helpful. Please keep making content!
Great video like always great information the safe riders like me I learned trail braking from you about 3 years ago and I’ve been doing it all the time streets, twisties in the mountain or track I don’t even have to think about it it comes automatically as muscle memory and that technique has safe me more the ones from crashing, thanks 🙏🏼 for that keep up the good work 🤙✌️
Absolutely excellent content… I am a newbie and I take my time with everything… loving my riding so far… ride your own ride and evolve safely with time…
Always good videos - thanks!
Great to see you back! And with a bang! Excellent video
great video! I hope people could watch all your previous ones and practise trail braking until they'll master it
I love it i learn a lot and dont get me wrong my instructeur was great in learning me how to ride but just not all of it and yes i love the video i got beter looking and listening en learning hear thanks❤❤❤
This is the best explanation of trail braking and it’s importance I’ve seen on YT. Also something I was struggling with. Thanks for this video!
You're the guy that opened my eyes to trail braking. Been working on it over 2 maybe 3 riding seasons now. What it has done is give me stability, better feeling, more "in control", more connection to my bike.
My humble and sincere thanks for having the guts to put this out there.
My riding inner mantra is now, wait for the exit to open up, roll off the brake, roll on the throttle.
This video is too relevant as I just ran wide on a sharp turn in the mountains and unfortunately low sided when I touched the gravel :(. A broken thumb even though wearing full gear. Hope to be riding again soon. Thanks for the video!
Wish you a quick recovery!
Thank you for this. The errors in teaching you point out are effectively written into law with state=approved instructors forced to "teach manual". So it will truly take a mass awakening to right this old mistake. But it's still worth doing because it could save lives.
Thanks, Dave! You rock! Please keep the informative videos coming.
@canyonchasers All your videos have helped me immensely. I recently did my first track day, and it was really eye opening. I was always wondering about trail breaking on longer sweepers, I appreciate now knowing it's for tight technical stuff only.
My first thought was “what? Another trail brake demo?” I recommend watching the last couple of these demos as well as this latest one. He makes his case, and then, in this video, he demolishes the older technique. For me this is an amazing sequence of really useful videos!
I’ve been doing this in my car on road courses for years. Trail braking for the win!
Thanks for the help your videos are great!
Learned trail braking on the track and it's also the safest thing to do on the streets...
Very good movie and you’re right
PS the piece with you’re ”mother” is hilarious
I just found your channel yesterday, and I’ve already watched a few videos.. Really, really cool stuff 👍
Ha, I ride (motorcycles, not scooters) in dangerous Vietnam. Trail breaking in Vietnam's unpredictable mountains is a life saver.
This was awesome. I think it is very important for everyone who wants to be good on 2 wheels to drive a bicycle. I was very casual with my cycling but I learnt how to always keep it on balance, how to turn it, lean and what to do when one of the tyres slip out.
It has taught me how to handle these things while not being risky as the speed is lower.
I recommend everyone to do cycling to improve bike skill. IT HELPS.
Well said!
@@CanyonChasers Thanks dude, I was a bit unsure about this fact but your videos have reassured it.
I've enjoyed every video of yours. 👍
Did my MSF about 5 years ago and wasn’t taught slow, look, press and roll. We were told to maintain throttle (the term maintenance throttle still sticks in my head) through the corner and accelerate out of the corner. I do use trail braking now thanks to videos like this.
I just started riding this year and I'm so glad I found this channel. THANK YOU!!
Thanks! Very helpful advice!
At the beginning of this video I had the feeling that you were going to talk about trail braking. I've watched many video's of you, talking about trailbraking. But it is still nice to hear again why it is so important. I was just a beginner when saw your video's about trail braking. I'm glad i've found it. It makes me much more confident and comfortable while riding a bike