Thaddeus isn't one of the best traitors (I personally find Avitus to be the best written, and Tarkus the most sympathetic), but his story and it's tragic conclusion are still good. He shows that youth and idealism are twisted to the ends of Chaos just as easily as arrogance and cynicism.
@sgtmoscovitz Technically he turned to Nurgle - you could see it in the boss battle: he is far more durable than in his normal mode and his attacks much stronger, plus he releases miasma. He appeared to had gave in to his hopelessness during the final Tyranid battle and pledged himself to the daemon Ulkair. His ranting also give hints that he feels utterly hopeless and without choice of the course of events that was occuring throughout the mission. Despair + Inevitability = Nurgle.
The abridged version of why each of them fell: Martellus - Embittered after being abandoned after the battle with the Tyranids, which allowed Eliphas to locate and corrupt him. Thaddeus - Made a pact with Ulkair during the battle with the Tyranids, believing that he opened the warp rift for reinforcements to arrive. However, Jonah believes Ulkair duped him. Cyrus - Embittered by the Chapter's leadership cadre, and wanted to reform it by any means necessary. Tarkus - Believed he gave himself up to save the rest of the chapter from Chaos. Not exactly helped by the tainted Bolter he carries around. Jonah - Possessed by a daemon, and not in control of his actions. He still fights from within, though. Avitus - Cracked after learning he had been serving a heretic, and no longer has the means to justify all the killings he had done.
Aside from Thaddeus clearly not being invincible, there’s no evidence Ulkair lied. Jonah said that there was no demonic hand in the victory over the hive mind, referencing his actual psychic battle with it and the bio toxin. But Thaddeus said that Ulkair just let the Litany of Fury through the warp to get to typhon. Given how tyranids generate a shadow in the warp, which would make anything involving it difficult, it’s not implausible that the ship wouldn’t have gotten through except for tremendous power- like that of a greater daemon. And since Jonah, being a psyker, was so affected by and focused on the hive mind, it’s not inconceivable that he missed something.
For me Thaddeus's betrayal hurts the most. Everyone else CHOSE to betray the Blood Ravens, say what you want about Tarkus and Avitus but at least they got what they wanted in the end (especially Avitus.) Thaddeus is a good person at heart whose love for his brothers was betrayed in the cruelest way possible.
the first time I did the campaign, I just made choices in regards to redemption and corruption missions according to my gut. when I first came to when it was revealed who was the traitor, I shat myself in shock when my first traitor was Tarkus
a free revive with reinforce, Full immuntiy to Range or Melee damage, Full energy regain, Damage goes back to the attacker, or completely blinding the enemy. And you wonder why we choose Corruption? Corruption got some pretty Neat wargear of its own.
Weeeel, got a pure Sword (or claw, don't remember which) freaking strong, wuth huge boost and immunity to ranged attack. Soooooo... easier to get the powerful chaos wargear than the pure one. But the pure wargear are better x)
As much as I like powerful wargear, I am not in any hurry to acquire anything that wants me to: A: Murder all the people around me with no provocation or motive other than 'Blood!!!' B: Catch, carry and further spread the contagion of every disease known to man. (I'm not going to be the one responsible for the spread of Crotch-Rot.) C: Act like a Saturday morning cartoon villain betraying and manipulating everyone so that I can cackle like Skeletor, saying: 'It was all part of my plans!' D: Commit acts of [Insert perverse, depraved and morally bankrupt acts of indulgence that Slaanesh would slather over.] But, hey, who am I to judge. That is between you and the Gods.
I mean, it feets his betrayl. He thought Ulkair was more powerful than he actuamly is, probably because he is still young, it was probably his first encounter with chaos yet, he didn't know the full extend of chaos and how to resist it.
That makes sense.. I kept all my squads pure.. Also seeing as how Martellus was the one stranded for a year or so from the chapter, so he's the only one who I think has the background for becoming corrupt XD
But they do have a better correlation in the overarching story than most. Cyrus made it pretty clear that Karuva was out of bounds, and Tarkus' makes no sense since he was supposedly the most devout and steadfast of all of Aramus' squad leaders. Avitus' corruption does make the most sense of all, though.
I don't get why everyone always goes corruption, you lose Thule and as well as that you lose access to imho the best terminator armour in the game ( the blessed cage which you find on the judgement of carrion )
Turning traitor doesn't really suit Thaddeus. He seems too goody to turn and not in the way Tarkus is good. With Tarkus I can see him turning since he's on the older side for a space marine. With Thaddeus he seems too "righteous" to turn.
His excuse is there, but his decision also seems very brash and rushed, which could be due to the fact that he was the youngest space marine in the story and very naive.
@@wholesome_masochist4113,thanks for the advice. When i'l grown up (i am 15 old) and be able to play this, I will equip Avitus(canon traitor) with all chaos relics, if this wont change my chance to the best ending
@@wholesome_masochist4113Also, further point. If there are two squad members who are at an equal amount of corruption, yet greater than all others. The traitor then becomes whoever has the least amount of Willpower. At least that's what happed in several of my playthroughs. Oh, I think the traitor's identity also defaults to Martellus if you only have the force Commander become corrupted. Although doing that (at least at a high enough Corruption level), also causes davian to leave your command.
Actually it was Avitus who was the traitor. It does actually make sense as he was responsible for many executions and massacres of the 1st Kronus Guardsmen. I'm even incline to believe he was the one who executed the treacherous 5th company after the battle of Victory Bay. Such actions would begin a process of corruption that would lead to full blown betrayal.
I know he was the traitor but i stand by what i said. Martellus was left for over a year on typhon which will have giving Eliphas and Araghast plenty of time to talk to him and convert him. Jonah was the only surviving librarian on the Litany of Fury meaning he would be highly susceptible to the influence of chaos because he faced the entire warp himself. Your reason does make good sense in the story but i still believe these two make the mot sense.
***** i think, actually martellus and jonah makes least sense. martellus was the one, who came up with the idea of retrieving the logic system to identify, its just brainless for him to do, just to uncover himself to be the traitor. and jonah had a clear mind the whole time, as a strong liberian who fought the hive mind for weeks... it would've been quite pathetic not to notice his own possession by a demon. by the he was the one, who didn't stop warning everybody not to underestimate the perils of the warp. tarkus made no sense aswell, he nearly died by the hands of the black legion in the first mission, would've been a terrible plan. thaddeus could've made sense, but then, on the other hand, it kinda made his character progression in becoming a fullfedged space marine pointless, after all, he had quite deep conversations vanilla dow2. cyrus cared a little bit too much for his initiates on that one mission, he could've acted though... on the other hand, he was the one, who found the first recording, which revealed, there was a traitor to begin with. everything avitus did, was once asking, if there were any new infos on this matter and went into raging mode... so yeah, i think from the beginning relic wanted avitus to be the traitor, and thats why it makes the most sense
Is it correct that the traitor's equipped gear is lost? I forgot what the traitor in my playthrough (Tarkus) was carrying. Every single let's play I look up has Martellus as the traitor so I wasn't able to check. Would've been mine as well if I hadn't accidentally donated an expendable item that corrupted everyone
SgtR3ynolds It kind of helped that in DoW II they had more voice actors at their disposal. If I'm not mistaken, only the Dobson bros voiced the CSM in DoW I with the exception of named characters. Don't get me wrong, Paul and Michael both are amazing evil villain VAs. Some of the best, in fact.
gtgoskate *nods* Yeah, well when you have a game like Warhammer with high expectations and the most manliest of manly voices necessary for its characters, the pool of actors one can choose from is slim. Not to mention it's actually hard to do an Ork voice without ruining your throat.
gtgoskate There's more to it than that. If it were that simple more people would do it. You need to make sure that you have a certain growl and sort of rough-around-the-edges feel to the voice. That's how I do it anyway.
@@martinchromecka3220 Martellus' turn to Chaos makes absolutely no sense when you sit down and think about it. The only reason you even find the traitor (in ANY playthrough) is because Martellus helps you find a means to decode the traitor's transmissions. His entire personality is basically wiped away. Avitus is still screaming for blood and battle, Cyrus , Tarkus quotes the codex as he fights you... Martellus never even fights you personally, he just gets in a tank and talks like a genetic chaos marine. He's also the only one who turns full traitor without the influence of Kyras.
@@HalfTangible Ye there was no relationship to kyrus. He fought in the tank because he is techmarine. But why it make me sad when i keep my all memebers proud and i need kill him? Even he not fight it make me sad because i liked him. Tarkus betrayal was not sad for me. Even he did so much for chapter i did not liked him for his arrogant and conceit nature. So killing him was pleasure for me.
You know, if the Librarian says there wasn't a daemon around, there probably wasn't a goddamn daemon.
Tbh he was focused on a hive mind he might be ignorant who else played a part.
Thaddeus isn't one of the best traitors (I personally find Avitus to be the best written, and Tarkus the most sympathetic), but his story and it's tragic conclusion are still good. He shows that youth and idealism are twisted to the ends of Chaos just as easily as arrogance and cynicism.
I'm just happy they took the time to give them each plausible motivation. Instead of just "oh yeah, they were corrupted so they turned evil."
Totally agree also Avitus is the cannon version of it
@sgtmoscovitz
Technically he turned to Nurgle - you could see it in the boss battle: he is far more durable than in his normal mode and his attacks much stronger, plus he releases miasma. He appeared to had gave in to his hopelessness during the final Tyranid battle and pledged himself to the daemon Ulkair. His ranting also give hints that he feels utterly hopeless and without choice of the course of events that was occuring throughout the mission. Despair + Inevitability = Nurgle.
"It is pointless to argue with you!"
*blocks his former brothers on Facebook and Twitter*
LOL
**but Thaddeus still sends them DM's through Discord**
0:37 "Thaddeus still has access to our Discord server."
The abridged version of why each of them fell:
Martellus - Embittered after being abandoned after the battle with the Tyranids, which allowed Eliphas to locate and corrupt him.
Thaddeus - Made a pact with Ulkair during the battle with the Tyranids, believing that he opened the warp rift for reinforcements to arrive. However, Jonah believes Ulkair duped him.
Cyrus - Embittered by the Chapter's leadership cadre, and wanted to reform it by any means necessary.
Tarkus - Believed he gave himself up to save the rest of the chapter from Chaos. Not exactly helped by the tainted Bolter he carries around.
Jonah - Possessed by a daemon, and not in control of his actions. He still fights from within, though.
Avitus - Cracked after learning he had been serving a heretic, and no longer has the means to justify all the killings he had done.
I don't think for avitus it was about justifying the deaths he caused it was that he never needed one in the first place.
In reality, Thaddeus only turned to Chaos because Slaanesh promised him that he will gift him with a guido to out-hairesy FC Hair Gel.
Worth it.
🤣 worth it
Aside from Thaddeus clearly not being invincible, there’s no evidence Ulkair lied. Jonah said that there was no demonic hand in the victory over the hive mind, referencing his actual psychic battle with it and the bio toxin. But Thaddeus said that Ulkair just let the Litany of Fury through the warp to get to typhon. Given how tyranids generate a shadow in the warp, which would make anything involving it difficult, it’s not implausible that the ship wouldn’t have gotten through except for tremendous power- like that of a greater daemon. And since Jonah, being a psyker, was so affected by and focused on the hive mind, it’s not inconceivable that he missed something.
For me Thaddeus's betrayal hurts the most.
Everyone else CHOSE to betray the Blood Ravens, say what you want about Tarkus and Avitus but at least they got what they wanted in the end (especially Avitus.)
Thaddeus is a good person at heart whose love for his brothers was betrayed in the cruelest way possible.
Yes it's sad
Jonah didn’t have a choice either.
@@KrimzonFlygon1 yes a demon entered him when he was fighting the tyranids
@@holysaintknight343 And even that wasn't due to a blunder on his part or anything: Kyras sabotaged his Psychic Hood.
@@KrimzonFlygon1 yes he was totally messed up from start
the first time I did the campaign, I just made choices in regards to redemption and corruption missions according to my gut. when I first came to when it was revealed who was the traitor, I shat myself in shock when my first traitor was Tarkus
a free revive with reinforce, Full immuntiy to Range or Melee damage, Full energy regain, Damage goes back to the attacker, or completely blinding the enemy.
And you wonder why we choose Corruption?
Corruption got some pretty Neat wargear of its own.
Weeeel, got a pure Sword (or claw, don't remember which) freaking strong, wuth huge boost and immunity to ranged attack. Soooooo... easier to get the powerful chaos wargear than the pure one. But the pure wargear are better x)
Because you're weak
Comander! Tarkis won't stop mating with his bolter!
As much as I like powerful wargear, I am not in any hurry to acquire anything that wants me to:
A: Murder all the people around me with no provocation or motive other than 'Blood!!!'
B: Catch, carry and further spread the contagion of every disease known to man. (I'm not going to be the one responsible for the spread of Crotch-Rot.)
C: Act like a Saturday morning cartoon villain betraying and manipulating everyone so that I can cackle like Skeletor, saying: 'It was all part of my plans!'
D: Commit acts of [Insert perverse, depraved and morally bankrupt acts of indulgence that Slaanesh would slather over.]
But, hey, who am I to judge. That is between you and the Gods.
As far as I remember, Jonah is possesed by a deamon of Tzeentch, Tarkus goes to Nurgle, and the rest seem to go to Khorne judging by their abilites.
honestly, Thaddeus dying speech sucked balls compared to everyone elses speech. Especially Ativus's
Hes a fucking child in comparison
he was the youngest of them all, in fact, he likely was a young child in space marine age
"You betrayed us, Thaddeus!"
"No u"
If the DoW II book is considered cannon, then Thaddeus and the Commander are the youngest full Battlebrothers in the Chapter.
I mean, it feets his betrayl. He thought Ulkair was more powerful than he actuamly is, probably because he is still young, it was probably his first encounter with chaos yet, he didn't know the full extend of chaos and how to resist it.
That makes sense.. I kept all my squads pure.. Also seeing as how Martellus was the one stranded for a year or so from the chapter, so he's the only one who I think has the background for becoming corrupt XD
3:46 "I am become fury incarnate" Maybe temper tantrum incarnate.
But they do have a better correlation in the overarching story than most. Cyrus made it pretty clear that Karuva was out of bounds, and Tarkus' makes no sense since he was supposedly the most devout and steadfast of all of Aramus' squad leaders. Avitus' corruption does make the most sense of all, though.
Tarkus was just Arthas, corrupted by his own weapon.
Avitus is the canon traitor though
@RanwulfMaxwell Castlevania Lords of Shadow - 06 - The Ice Titan
Jonah- essence of badassery
Eltheran and Cyrus is badassery incarnate.
Avitus to the group:
"Now he is devastated, brothers."
@OmegaUltima Castlevania Lords of Shadow - 14 - Laura's Mercy
I don't get why everyone always goes corruption, you lose Thule and as well as that you lose access to imho the best terminator armour in the game ( the blessed cage which you find on the judgement of carrion )
But he was the one who helped decoding the traitor, so he didn't really made sense to me.
Turning traitor doesn't really suit Thaddeus. He seems too goody to turn and not in the way Tarkus is good. With Tarkus I can see him turning since he's on the older side for a space marine. With Thaddeus he seems too "righteous" to turn.
His excuse is there, but his decision also seems very brash and rushed, which could be due to the fact that he was the youngest space marine in the story and very naive.
the fate of all heretics...
Mirakil Fascinating...
Poor Young Thaddeus. You betrayed fool
Ulkair: “you are unstoppable!” *trollface
Nitpick - the miasma is from Tarkus, not Thaddeus.
Which is a bit of a shame unless you want Thaddeus to have got no powers from giving in to despair.
@Schneboll hmm well i suppose it would be an upgrade , although I don't know what the Chaos would be associated food wise.
Damn, Dick, your videos ARE awesome! I mean, I never liked this scene, UNTIL YOU ADDED that music! Tell, tell, what music is that?
@Guudni
Yes, if everyone in your squad is pure, then he ends up being the traitor.
@BigDickCheney What about the music in the last section with Thaddeus succumbing?
It sucks that a blood raven had to betray, but Thaddeus!? He is always in my assault oriented squad smiting the heretic and killing the alien!
NOOO
It's random, anyone besides Thule and Hair Gel can be turned
@Schneboll Idk I play Eldar the affairs of mankind . Although it is pretty ridiculous to do everything for a piece of beef jerky in a sarcophagus
Is it just random who becomes traitor? Or is it based on which squad is most corrupt?
Whoever is the most corrupted. If you keep everyone pure, martellus becomes the traitor.
@@wholesome_masochist4113,thanks for the advice. When i'l grown up (i am 15 old) and be able to play this, I will equip Avitus(canon traitor) with all chaos relics, if this wont change my chance to the best ending
@@wholesome_masochist4113Also, further point. If there are two squad members who are at an equal amount of corruption, yet greater than all others. The traitor then becomes whoever has the least amount of Willpower. At least that's what happed in several of my playthroughs. Oh, I think the traitor's identity also defaults to Martellus if you only have the force Commander become corrupted. Although doing that (at least at a high enough Corruption level), also causes davian to leave your command.
I reckon that Martellus' and Jonah's betrayals make the most sense
Actually it was Avitus who was the traitor. It does actually make sense as he was responsible for many executions and massacres of the 1st Kronus Guardsmen. I'm even incline to believe he was the one who executed the treacherous 5th company after the battle of Victory Bay. Such actions would begin a process of corruption that would lead to full blown betrayal.
I know he was the traitor but i stand by what i said.
Martellus was left for over a year on typhon which will have giving Eliphas and Araghast plenty of time to talk to him and convert him.
Jonah was the only surviving librarian on the Litany of Fury meaning he would be highly susceptible to the influence of chaos because he faced the entire warp himself.
Your reason does make good sense in the story but i still believe these two make the mot sense.
Yeah, by and by though, I'm glad Davian Thule was not the traitor... He would've been impossible to defeat.
Damn right
*****
i think, actually martellus and jonah makes least sense. martellus was the one, who came up with the idea of retrieving the logic system to identify, its just brainless for him to do, just to uncover himself to be the traitor. and jonah had a clear mind the whole time, as a strong liberian who fought the hive mind for weeks... it would've been quite pathetic not to notice his own possession by a demon. by the he was the one, who didn't stop warning everybody not to underestimate the perils of the warp.
tarkus made no sense aswell, he nearly died by the hands of the black legion in the first mission, would've been a terrible plan. thaddeus could've made sense, but then, on the other hand, it kinda made his character progression in becoming a fullfedged space marine pointless, after all, he had quite deep conversations vanilla dow2. cyrus cared a little bit too much for his initiates on that one mission, he could've acted though... on the other hand, he was the one, who found the first recording, which revealed, there was a traitor to begin with. everything avitus did, was once asking, if there were any new infos on this matter and went into raging mode... so yeah, i think from the beginning relic wanted avitus to be the traitor, and thats why it makes the most sense
@BigDickCheney Ah, same OST. Thanks man.
Is it correct that the traitor's equipped gear is lost? I forgot what the traitor in my playthrough (Tarkus) was carrying. Every single let's play I look up has Martellus as the traitor so I wasn't able to check. Would've been mine as well if I hadn't accidentally donated an expendable item that corrupted everyone
The traitor squads gear is added to your inventory, you don’t lose it forever.
Music ladz?
Nice Choice in music, using the Ice Titan Theme from Castlevania Lords of Shadows.
seems like everyones defecting
lol your squads are corrupted like hell
THX! :D
@LastRussianEmporer it's what the cool kids are doin these days
I hate the chaos voices in this. They sound like a legion of clowns. derp derp derp
I actually prefer how they sound in this compared to the first one, but they had better lines and dialogue in the first one than this.
In retribution they sound incredibly brutal
SgtR3ynolds It kind of helped that in DoW II they had more voice actors at their disposal. If I'm not mistaken, only the Dobson bros voiced the CSM in DoW I with the exception of named characters.
Don't get me wrong, Paul and Michael both are amazing evil villain VAs. Some of the best, in fact.
gtgoskate *nods* Yeah, well when you have a game like Warhammer with high expectations and the most manliest of manly voices necessary for its characters, the pool of actors one can choose from is slim.
Not to mention it's actually hard to do an Ork voice without ruining your throat.
gtgoskate There's more to it than that. If it were that simple more people would do it. You need to make sure that you have a certain growl and sort of rough-around-the-edges feel to the voice.
That's how I do it anyway.
the latter.
Nice avatar.
@SuaveNerd2000 True story
@503leafy Martellus' seemed the most pathetic, imho
I think not. Martellus was cool guy for me and my favourite space marine character before thadeus.
@@martinchromecka3220 Martellus' turn to Chaos makes absolutely no sense when you sit down and think about it. The only reason you even find the traitor (in ANY playthrough) is because Martellus helps you find a means to decode the traitor's transmissions.
His entire personality is basically wiped away. Avitus is still screaming for blood and battle, Cyrus , Tarkus quotes the codex as he fights you... Martellus never even fights you personally, he just gets in a tank and talks like a genetic chaos marine.
He's also the only one who turns full traitor without the influence of Kyras.
@@HalfTangible
Ye there was no relationship to kyrus. He fought in the tank because he is techmarine. But why it make me sad when i keep my all memebers proud and i need kill him? Even he not fight it make me sad because i liked him. Tarkus betrayal was not sad for me. Even he did so much for chapter i did not liked him for his arrogant and conceit nature. So killing him was pleasure for me.
Thaddeus's excuses don't seem as solid as the rest of his brothers.
@sgtmoscovitz Fucking right
2020
@barcod11 luls