Sooooo grateful for this. Just naively played about with my chubby lock and am stuck with the very problem you demonstrate. I am soo lucky to have you here!
0:00 intro, 1:17 parts explained, 3:42 mounting options, 7:44 code change, 10:23 locked in forbidden zone, 13:34 totally messed up in forbidden zone. Mechanical Safe Combination Locks have a forbidden zone. In this zone you cannot choose the last number - otherwise the lock will bind. Why this is and how this relates the correct mounting for the bolt orientation is subject of this video.
Thanks Potti. That last one is really bad. If the lock is open, and you've tested it, only to find that you're in thus situation, how fo you 'escape' from it? Will the combination setting tool still work?
Forbidden zone of "Zero through Twenty" i0-20) is stated in the instructions for, La Gard Mechanical Group 1, Group 2 & Group 2M Locks. "When selecting a combination, choose a three number sequence from 0 - 99. Never select numbers 0 to 20 as the LAST NUMBER of the combination. This is the “Forbidden Zone” and can cause the lock to malfunction." Perhaps this is why the safe left behind and provided by landlord for new jeweler tenant does not open with the provided combination, the last number is (18).
That is a very good explanation-video for the forbidden zone. I aalways wondered, why 0-10 is not allowed, now I know. But why are some locks not allowing a distance between the three code-numbers that is below ten steps? If you could answer this in another video, that would be great!
Very nice demo of the "Forbidden Zone" -- RH = Right Hand (Not Right Horizontal), similarly LH = Left Hand (Not Left Horizontal) as the correct and accepted terms, but very well done -- got all the other terminology correct -- Excellent -- Good Job -- Now try a 4 wheel Vault Lock
@@Potti314 I do like the terms "Left Horizontal" and "Right Horizontal" -- they are much more descriptive & I will start using them -- seems more obvious to me
I've been wondering/hoping you would get into mechanical safe combo locks! Looks like you have! I'm in the process of learning manipulation, at first I was quite overwhelmed with all the aspects of the topic.. In fact I still am, lol. Hope to eventually learn as much as I can to be able to open my S&G that I mounted to a piece of plexiglass.. Anyway, great video.. would love to see more on the topic of safe locks.. Take care Potti!
Changing the spline key could actually be a solution if you want to set a last number which is in the forbidden zone. Basically, moving the forbidden zone out of way. Note that changing the spline key means you need to offset your combo with +25 or -25 or +-50 when opening the lock for the first time (or setting it up for change) - and THEN dial your combination without offset when setting your new combo up. This means your lock will internally be set to an offset position, but since the spline key is in a "incorrect" or "changed" position, the dial will read the combination correctly. So if your current combination is 20-30-40, and you want to set combination 85-12-02 , you change the spline key, lets say you choose one that is 180* off. Then you need to dial 70-80-90 as combination, then open the safe, and then dial 85-12-02 when changing the combo, and then close. Afterwards, your combination will be 85-12-02 and your forbidden zone is at 50-60.
But changing the spline key position will invalidate the lock documentation where the forbidden zone is described. If - after a while - you are going to change the code according to the manual (avoiding the described forbidden zone) you could get into trouble.
Fantastic Video & Explanation. Lovely LaGard By The Way. I Love How You Have Mounted The Combination Safe Lock...!!!! What Model Is It? If you can let me know that would be great. Keep up the great work Guys. Nick🧔🏽, TH-cam🔐: Lock Pick Nick & Nicholas Aarons.
I had to look back and forth through this video a bit to understand the reason for the forbidden zone - but I understood after two passes :o) It's the relative positions between the top main drive disc and the first driven disc down the stack - there must be a couple of pins between those two that connect them together at one point in the rotation.....and when in the forbidden zone, that interaction prevents the first driven disc from rotating as it needs to, to allow the fence up. Would Victor allow you to dismantle the code wheels to show us that do you think ?
You are very smart, dude. You saved me time trying to figure it out. Most idiots on these sites just want to make a Master Lock joke or believe whatever they see without trying it or understanding.
Very interesting! - thanks for showing. So if the lock was stuck on a closed position because of the bad combination you found (where you explained in the addendum), how do you recover from that? I guess you open it up and pull off the arm (with the nose / tooth) and pull back the locking bolt, but what do you have to do then then reset it to a good code? When inserting the change key & turning it, you're meant to do that with the arm (with nose / tooth) in place, but if it is in place then would it be stuck? Would you then have to take the wheels about and reassemble them in different positions? Another question, can you pick this lock? Cheers!
First of all there is no change for me to decode this lock. This is a whole other world than the usual combination locks. When you have chosen a bad code you better not have locked up the door, 'cause you have to open the cover and remove the arms from the mechanism and reposition the wheel so that you can set a new code. Thanks for stopping by my friend :-)
The Lock On The Front Of The Dial Is To Stop People From Messing Around With It & Too Prevent Damage To The Safe Lock Etc. You Can Use It When You Have Unlocked The Safe To Stop The Safe From Being Locked Up Again. Also It’s A Minor Added Safety Feature To Stop Burglars From Trying To Manipulate The Dial Even Tho It’s Only A Wafer Lock & Very Easy To Pick Or Jiggle Etc. I Hope This Helps? Nick🧔🏽, TH-cam🔐: Lock Pick Nick & Nicholas Aarons.
Hi, great Vid! One thing though, (And I have tried to find this out) How does an "Auto Dialer" know when it has found the first Number? To me, the correct position of the disc, could be just "Anywhere". How does it know when it is at the exact position needed, and then, to go on and find the other two disc's, positions? If you can find the time to help me with this, I would be very greatfull....Thanks,.....Geoff
I hate myself when I put the dial on the inside. Real hard to get in again. My S&G safe is quite antique. No key hole on the dial. The door is full of concrete. I came here hoping a lube of the plates would be included.
Lubing is one of those things that seems be be a big secret. I even found a vid of a guy who completely disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled an old lock and then just ended the video with "thanks for watching", lol.
Sooooo grateful for this. Just naively played about with my chubby lock and am stuck with the very problem you demonstrate. I am soo lucky to have you here!
0:00 intro, 1:17 parts explained, 3:42 mounting options, 7:44 code change, 10:23 locked in forbidden zone, 13:34 totally messed up in forbidden zone.
Mechanical Safe Combination Locks have a forbidden zone. In this zone you cannot choose the last number - otherwise the lock will bind. Why this is and how this relates the correct mounting for the bolt orientation is subject of this video.
Thanks Potti. That last one is really bad. If the lock is open, and you've tested it, only to find that you're in thus situation, how fo you 'escape' from it? Will the combination setting tool still work?
Forbidden zone of "Zero through Twenty" i0-20) is stated in the instructions for, La Gard Mechanical Group 1, Group 2 & Group 2M Locks.
"When selecting a combination, choose a three number sequence
from 0 - 99. Never select numbers 0 to 20 as
the LAST NUMBER of the combination. This is
the “Forbidden Zone” and can cause the lock
to malfunction."
Perhaps this is why the safe left behind and provided by landlord for new jeweler tenant does not open with the provided combination, the last number is (18).
Btw the forbidden zone would be good if you use the safe only for fire resistance and theft isn't a concern, can just turn dial to open
Haha, that's a funny application for a safe - but you are right.
That is a very good explanation-video for the forbidden zone. I aalways wondered, why 0-10 is not allowed, now I know. But why are some locks not allowing a distance between the three code-numbers that is below ten steps? If you could answer this in another video, that would be great!
I didn’t know about the “forbidden” zone, this was a interesting lesson.
Thanks for tuning in.
@@Potti314 you mean turning in
Very nice demo of the "Forbidden Zone" -- RH = Right Hand (Not Right Horizontal), similarly LH = Left Hand (Not Left Horizontal) as the correct and accepted terms, but very well done -- got all the other terminology correct -- Excellent -- Good Job -- Now try a 4 wheel Vault Lock
Oh, my bad. Thanks for the info and correction.
@@Potti314 I do like the terms "Left Horizontal" and "Right Horizontal" -- they are much more descriptive & I will start using them -- seems more obvious to me
I think Right hand & Right Horizontal means almost the same by different explanation isn't??😊😊
Nice video, It's always fun to play with combination locks!
To learn more about these safe locks is really interesting.
I've been wondering/hoping you would get into mechanical safe combo locks! Looks like you have! I'm in the process of learning manipulation, at first I was quite overwhelmed with all the aspects of the topic.. In fact I still am, lol. Hope to eventually learn as much as I can to be able to open my S&G that I mounted to a piece of plexiglass.. Anyway, great video.. would love to see more on the topic of safe locks.. Take care Potti!
Good luck with your lock and your research on decoding safe locks - thanks for stopping by.
Great video, Knowing the rule and why it's there makes you want to follow it!
Thanks - it required quite some doing until I understood how it works and I'm still surprised how complicated three wheels and two arms can be ;-)
Changing the spline key could actually be a solution if you want to set a last number which is in the forbidden zone. Basically, moving the forbidden zone out of way. Note that changing the spline key means you need to offset your combo with +25 or -25 or +-50 when opening the lock for the first time (or setting it up for change) - and THEN dial your combination without offset when setting your new combo up. This means your lock will internally be set to an offset position, but since the spline key is in a "incorrect" or "changed" position, the dial will read the combination correctly.
So if your current combination is 20-30-40, and you want to set combination 85-12-02 , you change the spline key, lets say you choose one that is 180* off. Then you need to dial 70-80-90 as combination, then open the safe, and then dial 85-12-02 when changing the combo, and then close. Afterwards, your combination will be 85-12-02 and your forbidden zone is at 50-60.
But changing the spline key position will invalidate the lock documentation where the forbidden zone is described. If - after a while - you are going to change the code according to the manual (avoiding the described forbidden zone) you could get into trouble.
@@Potti314 Correct.
Interesting, thanks for showing this.
Cheers mate - thanks for stopping by.
Brilliant :D I am happy that you explored it so much in detail :D
Thanks mate - glad you gave me the lock - the forbidden zone was long on my list already :-)
Fantastic Video & Explanation. Lovely LaGard By The Way. I Love How You Have Mounted The Combination Safe Lock...!!!! What Model Is It? If you can let me know that would be great. Keep up the great work Guys. Nick🧔🏽, TH-cam🔐: Lock Pick Nick & Nicholas Aarons.
Very interresting my friend
Thanks buddy.
I had to look back and forth through this video a bit to understand the reason for the forbidden zone - but I understood after two passes :o) It's the relative positions between the top main drive disc and the first driven disc down the stack - there must be a couple of pins between those two that connect them together at one point in the rotation.....and when in the forbidden zone, that interaction prevents the first driven disc from rotating as it needs to, to allow the fence up. Would Victor allow you to dismantle the code wheels to show us that do you think ?
Yes, you're right with your analysis - will make a follow up to show the part closer and how they interact - pretty interesting stuff.
You are very smart, dude. You saved me time trying to figure it out. Most idiots on these sites just want to make a Master Lock joke or believe whatever they see without trying it or understanding.
Very interesting thanks for the video 👍
Cheers - glad you liked it.
Very interesting! - thanks for showing. So if the lock was stuck on a closed position because of the bad combination you found (where you explained in the addendum), how do you recover from that? I guess you open it up and pull off the arm (with the nose / tooth) and pull back the locking bolt, but what do you have to do then then reset it to a good code? When inserting the change key & turning it, you're meant to do that with the arm (with nose / tooth) in place, but if it is in place then would it be stuck? Would you then have to take the wheels about and reassemble them in different positions? Another question, can you pick this lock? Cheers!
First of all there is no change for me to decode this lock. This is a whole other world than the usual combination locks. When you have chosen a bad code you better not have locked up the door, 'cause you have to open the cover and remove the arms from the mechanism and reposition the wheel so that you can set a new code.
Thanks for stopping by my friend :-)
What is your take on Sargent & Greenleaf, especially on the 8077 padlocks?
Thank you for your time this is very interesting.
Great video 👍🏻
Thank you.
What's the keyhole for? Never seen or opened a safe with a keyhole on the dial
The keyhole is for locking the dial.
Lockception I guess. Locking the lock lol
The Lock On The Front Of The Dial Is To Stop People From Messing Around With It & Too Prevent Damage To The Safe Lock Etc. You Can Use It When You Have Unlocked The Safe To Stop The Safe From Being Locked Up Again. Also It’s A Minor Added Safety Feature To Stop Burglars From Trying To Manipulate The Dial Even Tho It’s Only A Wafer Lock & Very Easy To Pick Or Jiggle Etc. I Hope This Helps? Nick🧔🏽, TH-cam🔐: Lock Pick Nick & Nicholas Aarons.
Hi, great Vid! One thing though, (And I have tried to find this out) How does an "Auto Dialer" know when it has found the first Number? To me, the correct position of the disc, could be just "Anywhere". How does it know when it is at the exact position needed, and then, to go on and find the other two disc's, positions? If you can find the time to help me with this, I would be very greatfull....Thanks,.....Geoff
Great Video! Thank you!
is forbidden zones happened at vd point only or all RH,VU,LH
Thanks for this Video!
Klasse Video! 🙂
Why yes this safe is secure. The door is constructed of three inches of solid apple wood!
Haha, high security wood ;-)
It only resists brute force attacks with a high-grade entry beaver for 28 seconds - very weak! 🦫
So if the lock has 3 digits its a 3 wheel and 4 digits its a 4 wheel lock?Thanks
Great video
What model lock is that?
I have the same problem, how to fix it?
I have been the same problem, how to
also whay at unlocking point is finally changed from 0 to other number like 40
I hate myself when I put the dial on the inside. Real hard to get in again. My S&G safe is quite antique. No key hole on the dial. The door is full of concrete. I came here hoping a lube of the plates would be included.
Lubing is one of those things that seems be be a big secret. I even found a vid of a guy who completely disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled an old lock and then just ended the video with "thanks for watching", lol.
Great video! Do you know the make and model of this specific lock?
Sorry, but I don't have it anymore.
I'm just a random guy but I can positively tell you the lock body is a La Gard 3390 (3-wheel, group 2M) and the dial/ring set is a 1730
My lady friend also has a tiny forbidden zone.
Try to avoid that zone or you're locked.
Please help me
:-)
Cheers :-)
@@Potti314
can you "pick" an "unknown combination" dial lock? i have tried and got nowhere, it is one of the most difficult to pick in my opinion.
Amazing Video Portti314 . Very Cool Video & Great Work. Keep up the great work. Nick🧔🏽, TH-cam🔐: Lock Pick Nick & Nicholas Aarons.
Thanks a lot for you nice comment :-)
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