Enphase vs SolarEdge vs Tesla
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 มี.ค. 2021
- Alright, let’s talk solar inverters, I’ve done several videos over the years on micro-inverters, optimized inverters, and old school string inverters. Heck, I recently just did a video on the Tesla inverter, which spoiler alert, it’s a string inverter with no panel optimization like SolarEdge.
But these videos didn’t compare the products side by side, so I thought it would be a perfect time to do so, especially with the release of Tesla’s string inverter. But before I dive into comparing these three manufactures, I want to give a quick overview of how each of these differs.
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@EnphaseEnergy @SolarEdgeTechnologies
Great video, keep up the good work.
GREAT explanation - thank you!
In my area Tesla is less than half the price of anyone else. That is their main selling point. If they didn't refuse to work with my sole energy provider I would have had their system installed. I paid $48k for a 9.9K Enphase setup. Tesla's quote for my home was $28k for a 8.9K setup with a powerwall, and $19K without the powerwall. No comparison on price, I think with that price delta most consumers would choose Tesla if given the choice. Even if the difference cost them 20% in production from the lack of per module optimazation. My last home had SolarEdge and it was fine but production really tanked after year one. Could have been many factors like panel quality ect...
Great video but you efficiency calculation should be multiplication rather than average... .
I concur. Just to explain, if your optimizer is only letting a certain % of power through, the inverter can only work with the power that reaches it. So the overall efficiency loss is found by multiplying the efficiency of the optimizer by the efficiency of the inverter in the Solar Edge scenario.
That puts the peak efficiency at 98.7% and the CEC weighted efficiency at 97.8% ... this really shows the difference between efficiency of the options very close
Either way, your calculation is wrong. Maybe it doesn’t matter here but you’re mistaken and there are times where the number won’t be the same.
Hi… Question… would you consider pairing enphase micro inverters with bifacial panels? What about optimisers?
Thank you for the information. Regarding the overall efficiency of the Solar Edge system, should be the product of the two efficiencies: overall CEC = 99% * 98.8% = 97.8 %
Solar Edge has a bad reputation for quality control, my installer stopped using them due to so many complaints.
@@gize5321 That's because of installers included warranty, any form of repair will cost a few installers a few hours is money loss. solaredge's failure rate is 2%, so for every 50 customer, that is 1 failure. For installer, they probably have a few of these every year, which is annoying. As customer, you are betting that you are not that 1/50 customers who will run into this. If solar edge fails, I lost 1-2 months of loss power generation, so may be $200-$300, but then a system with solar edge is about $1000 less than enphase. I will take that bet, you see what I mean? Also, enphase clips and with all new 460W panels, the 380W inverter would clip your power generation. I am not saying solaredge is superior, but everything is all about money return, I don't need the best solar panel, and I don't need the best inverter, I want the one that returns me money asap.
I have solar edge. What battery would be best for a 40 panel system?
Suggestion: It's not average efficiency of the SolarEdge that's important but the combined efficiency, ie, the product of the two. SolarEdge Combined = 98.7% peak / CEC 97.8%
Just, no.
From the perspective of repairs, it's a helluva lot easier to replace one inverter near the ground, as opposed to going up on the roof and removing panels to get to the micro-inverter or optimizer. It's an easy DIY fix, vs a difficult fix requiring proper fall protection and depending on the height of the home, a lift to get up there.
The failure rate on string inverters is a lot higher from what I'm finding in my research.
@@runalong so it 's easier to fail and to fix more for string inverter?
Okay, but then there are the optimizers on the roof. There is no roof free solar maintenance.
From your "Perspective"...
My guy...let me tell you...Im a solar technician.
In my company we replace 3 to 4 solaredge inverters a week.
Yes its easier, but during the time it takes solaredge to ship out a replacement to the homeowner, and send out a technician to replace it, a microinverter system will have produced more power. Kind of like the turtle and the hare race.
Take it from someone who lifts panels every week to solve solar issues and a track record of solaredge inverter replacements...Enphase is 100x better.
If you go with Enphase and one inverter of say… 10 (just for example), your system will continue but only produce 90% of normal capacity until you get around to dealing with the problem. Going your route the ENTIRE system is dead until you replace that single MUCH more expensive inverter. Not to even mention the many other advantages of Enphase’s product.
Which 60 or 72 cell solar panel works best with Optimizers for charging a 24v battery bank
How do you explain the losses w/ Enphase when production clips *at panel level* ? It reduces efficiency considerably when a module hits anywhere over the inverter’s max output capacity. The probability of panel level clipping is considerably higher than the likelihood of whole system clipping over the life span of the system..
100% Agreed! I have 440W panels that I could never use to their fullest potential with Enphase but they work perfectly with my string inverter. Since I have east/west/south facing panels I never go over the inverter limit but I would hit microinverter limits every single day.
Silly question. Can a all in one inverter run panels that have optimisers on them. Would the mppt in the inverter conflict with the optimisers?
SolarEdge does use optimizers and their Energy Hub inverter is an all in one.
@@PacificSunTech Thanks for the reply much appreciated. Good to know. Do solar edge make a 10kw version of the all in one, so having a built in Mppt etc..
I've watched all of your videos and very informative and I appreciate the help with making a decision!! I've decided to go with the LG neon 2 370 watt panels and enphase IQ8÷ inverters and 12 panels and I only use 450 -550 kw a month and wondering if this should be fine for my needs?? I don't live near your area or I would have asked for a quote from your company..
Hope you didn't go LG. Great panels, but LG dropped out of the business and no longer make solar panels.
I recommend the REC 405's
Tesla has optimizers that can be used or it can use the old-fashioned setup. It depends on the client's setup. It is how they are reaching $.49/watt (cheapest around).
From what we gathered it appears Tesla is not using an optimizer that reports data or enhances the performance of the panel. The optimizer they’re using is specifically for Rapid Shutdown NEC 2017 690.12(B)(2), which goes to say that during an emergency and the power is shut off there can be no DC current flowing between panels and outside the array.
if your roof has shading issues Tesla as of now will still use SolarEdge with optimizers, if your roof doesn't have shading issues they will use their inverter with rapid shut down modules. If you don't have shading issues optimizers aren't that helpful but can help on some cloudy days, My guess is Tesla will do Software level optimization, like SMA did with the Sunnyboy Inverters. Software is much cheaper than hardware and it eliminates a failure point
The calculation of the efficiency of the SolarEdge is wrong, it should be like this (Inveff/100 x opteff/100)x100, as energy is lost in each device. Then some energy is lost in the optimizer and what's left goes to the inverter and some more energy is lost there.
That puts the peak efficiency at 98.7% and the CEC weighted efficiency at 97.8% ... this really shows the difference between efficiency of the options very close
Appears Tesla/Enphase micro-inverters best combo. Agree? Now about monitoring. Tesla App seems easiest to gauge power strength and direction. Can Enphase Enlighten be used to gauge effective of each panel?
How can you combine the two? They are different inverter systems...
A very informative video which is not explained explicitly by The solar companies. You really describe the information in its laymen terms for the consumer like myself. Thank👊🏽👊🏽👊🏽 . I just installed the Tesla Solar Panels with The SolarEdge inverter. How do we the consumer go about getting an Update warranty on the inverters?
Your advise would greatly appreciated.
Thanks 🙏🏾👊🏽🙏🏾
Glad we were able to help you out in understanding your solar inverter. Here’s the link for you to buy an extended warranty from SolarEdge: www.solaredge.com/us/warranty
I do know Tesla doesn’t typically setup the built in monitoring from SolarEdge, which provides module level information through the SolarEdge website. This is something you won’t be able setup without an installer sadly, you should see if Tesla did connect the inverter to the internet and if they could setup the monitoring.
@@PacificSunTech
Wow...I’m so glad you were the additional information on purchasing the extended warranty. Thank You.
2ndly, That’s totally interesting if I could get The Tesla installer to see if the system is monitored by SolarEdge granting me access too.
You’ve certainly put me at ease.👊🏽😉👊🏽
How about price difference? Isn't that worth mentioning?
Any reason to get a smart breaker system like span with an enphase battery solar system?
Enphase is developing their own solution, the have released their load controller which currently allows for control of power hungry circuits during grid outages.
1) Tesla is the only inverter that offers 98% efficiency AND 120/240VAC split phase.
2) Competing inverters will only have a 86-91% effiency.
3) Aslo, grid inverters consume 2% of the total power output of solar panels.
4) Also, the grid inverters adds complexity and more points of failure.
5) Most new panels already have bypass diodes that prevents one panel from dragging down the rest.
It is great that we have options and decide which brand of inverters are best for DIY projects.
I’m surprised I’m not seeing any mention that Enphase creates a/c energy as close as possible to the panel itself. Tesla famously won the argument with Edison over line losses when moving electricity around in ac vs dc. I doubt that these efficiency comparisons are including the line loss from your roof to your garage… as well as the dangers of dc.
Message to DIY'ers.
For solar --- DON"T.
For interconnection with your local utility --
ALL work has to be done according to code, with permits,
and done by recognized professionals and companies.
In some areas of the country, that may not be a problem.
In IL and Chicago area, it is a must.
Tesla has the cheapest cost per watt so that cost savings have to come from somewhere. Unless a consumer does a lot of research the inverter is probably the most confusing component. I read somewhere that the Tesla inverters are rebranded Delta inverters.
No, they’re not rebranded. Tesla has gone from SolarEdge to Delta to in-house. The inverter is based on the technology inside the Powerwall 2
I believe Pacific Sun Tech is correct. According to my Tesla sales rep. Tesla designed their own inverter and is indeed a string inverter without any optimization available.
@@FrugalTeslaGuy given that tesla is a software company at heart they will most likely follow SMA footsteps and do software level optimization, which SMA has proven can be just as good or better in some cases
@@scotthall1381 "Some cases" being the key words. I read that entire study and there are some faults in the approach. Yes in a non shaded or BARELY shaded (like that study) scenario string inverters will be comparable or as in that study shows maybe even marginally better. However the study fails to assess any real periods of heavy shading and even on the partial shading they just put short poles in front of the arrays during the time of the year when the sun was highest in the sky resulting in least amount of shade possible. I know they're trying to make a comeback but its obvious they know they will get significantly outperformed in a scenario with shade of any significance. There is then the module level troubleshooting factor they fail to be able to bring value in. Them trying to say that panel level shutdown could somehow be less safe than string level rapid shutdown is kind of comical.
In just less than a year, the new Tesla inverter has been overheating and will shutdown and restart at least 6+ times a day to cool off. It's intermittent and has cut my solar production more than half. There was also a week when I wasn't monitoring that it completely stopped working and I have to toggle the big lever switch to restart it back. The inverter smells like burnt too and you can hear the fan at full speed through out the day.
The worst part is, I have been waiting for Tesla to fix this problem for months now. Tier 1 support acknowledged the issue and she escalated it to Tier 2 support. Been months now and Tier 2 support hasn't contacted me not once. The Tier 1 support has also stopped responding. There's no other way to contact Tesla Solar support only through the app and once you have opened a case, you have to wait and wait and wait and I am still waiting for the repair until now.
I chose Tesla over some small Mom and Pops Solar because I thought they are big and support would have been better and easier. I was wrong.
Could you explain it.? A few months ago in September Biden started a solar ad on Bill giving home owners a good reason to finally make the move.
Good video
No prices? How about the cost from each for a 15kW solar array. Then add batteries to handle that, since Tesla only sells together.
We won’t be able to do a video on the pricing for Tesla since they show one and then change it. But we are working on a video comparing Enphase Ensemble to SolarEdge Energy Hub.
When you calculate the combined efficiency of the optimizer and inverter I believe you want to multiply the two efficiencies together, not add and divide by 2.
You are correct and we have noted this for future videos. Thanks!
OMG i have not yet seen the video, and its the first i see on this channel, but this comment tells me enough. This is not just an unfortunate error, this proves mathematical illiteracy. (cant even call it scientific illiteracy)
Based on your Enphase RMA numbers, you all didn't install a heck of a lot of M Series, or its a very gentle climate.
O solar edged tem acesso à internet ?
Only thing I have to say is sma sunnyboy inverter in the past just work forever. That's actually something that is pretty good to me. Enphase is strictly better on some things but require additional apps and internet connections etc. For monitoring. Dont get me wrong but from a cyber attack someone could mess with your system or shut it down.
Enphase doesn't need any internet connection if you don't want to
I almost always sell SolarEdge over Enphase because the SolarEdge warranty is is better once you extend the inverter to 25 years. The whole system can be covered for 25 years. You cant say that about Enphase. Sure the micros are 25 years but the IQ combiner box is only 5 years with no option to extend. And SolarEdge pays more labor longer than Enphase. So if you care about long term homeowner happiness SolarEdge has better warranties, better labor support and are often easier to service. Plus in Florida system sizes are big and often 2-3 inverters are needed so its rare that the whole system would be down.
The IQ combiner box is manufactured by Eaten and is basically a 125A sub panel. When’s the last time you replaced a sub panel that failed? If you’re that concerned about the IQ combiner box you can install a 125 Square D sub panel that has a 10-year warranty. You’ll still need to buy the Envoy-IQ and install separately in the garage which does have a 5-year warranty, but hey your sprinkler system probably has a 1-year warranty and so does your laptop and tv and everything else that’s simple electronic. And I don’t know what you’re talking about SolarEdge support is the worst in the industry, typical wait times with phone support is 1 hour or more. Opening a remote ticket isn’t much better either, I usually can speak to someone at Enphase in less than 10-15 minutes. Manufacture Labor warranties are a selling point companies use because they probably won’t be around long to service the system.
6:40 - not sure the energy efficiency calculation for chained SolarEdge is correct. Shouldn't you multiple the efficiencies together since this is a serial system? so instead of (Part 1 + Part 2)/2. I think it should be Part1 * Part2 as each part looses energy from the total before passing on to the next part. which would give SolarEdge more like a 98.7% peak / 97.7% CEC?
Tesla is supposnginly going to have you notified in the app if you have a panel down on a string. I am trying to get the spec sheets now for the inverter, it also is said that it will be 2 panels per string to minimize the issues that stringing all the panels together. Again trying to get spec sheet to verify that, but that's what I was told over the phone. So all this is hear say right now until I get paperwork. Just thought I would share with you the information I received.
If you’re able to get anything please send to us support@pacificsuntech.com
2 panels per string would likely require 5-10 MPPT's per inverter and not to mention 5-10 PAIRS of wires in homerun from array to inverter. Sounds like you were talking to a uneducated representative as that setup is highly unlikely. Good luck on your solar journey.
People just don’t understand Tesla. Their stated goal is to get as many homes as possible converted to renewable energy. They aren’t selling Lamborghini systems. They’re selling Toyota Corolla systems. They’re also steadily moving in that direction with their EV cars as well. Yes, they started out with the really fancy cars in order to get into the market, but Tesla doesn’t want to sell high end systems. They want to sell a whole lot of solidly built, easy operation, low end systems and get every home in America converted over as quickly as possible. It may not have all the whistles and dings that you’re so fond of, but if they can get 10 people to convert for every 1 that buys a Lamborghini then the world will be a better place.
If you look at the price of solar in Australia it’s crazy cheap; but if you look closer to why, you’ll see two major reasons. No regulatory oversight to ensure quality and safety and cheap unreliable equipment that lasts on average 3-5 years.
Few understand this. Tesla even published a whitepaper about their Powerwall+ where they argue exactly this. Cheaper and slightly worse production = ultimately better. What I really don't understand is why they aren't using LFP in the Powerwall.
Warranty definitely important, but key point (and different point) missed is failure rates. Tesla is going for simplicity, reliability, and low cost. Solar Edge has a poor track record for inverter failures, as well as optimizer (hard to replace). So double reliability issue there. Enphase has a better reliability track record, and less impact when a micro-inverter does fail (and they do also). 25 year warranty doesn't mean they last 25 years, just that you get a replacement for 'free'. But if you do have to replace, still difficult vs. a string inverter swap on the ground. Any system that doesn't have roof mount electronics is less things to break and easier service. Certainly panel level monitoring has great benefits, but it does come with increased cost and impact to system reliability.
There’s pros and cons to every scenario but we service a lot of older stinger inverters like ABB, PVI, Aurora, Fronius, Delta, and SMA. They aren’t more reliable, they are easier to service but many customers go months without realizing the inverter has been down.
@@PacificSunTech Present generation solar systems connected to the internet have this ability - even with string inverters. When properly configured, the internet connected inverter combined with the cloud notifies installer (and optionally customer) when the inverter is underproducing, detects a fault, or is down completely. Would be great to detail the failure rate you see with the various make/model inverter, and their years in service - both string, micros, and optimizers.
@@billjohnson3344 How would it be able to tell the difference between underproducing and being in a shady location? The problem with string inverters is their inherent lack of information that optimized and micro inverter systems have access to.
@@thursdaythought7201 There are a few ways this can be monitored with a string inverter. When properly setup, many systems have the ability to compare expected output vs. PVwatts online information, and can alert you to unexpected deviations. Enphase supports this method also. Additionally, most string inverters also have multiple MPPT channels, and if similar number and type of panels on each string (and same roof face) you can see differences in Volts / Amps / Watts based on shading or failure. Per string level, of course.
Agree that microinverters give you better info. But they also have their cons - being price, higher risk of failure of something due to roof top electronics, slightly less efficient for non-shaded installs, and more difficult to service.
@@billjohnson3344 From what I understand- micro inverters have a much lower risk of failure. Regular inverters have a higher failure rate. The only problem with micro inverters failures is that when it fails you need someone to get on your roof but the warranty should cover that.
Do you guys sell individual panels or just systems only?
Not at this time.
solaredge efficiency should be multiple inverter with optimizer. so total is 98.7% peak 97.8% CEC
It seems like you are skipping the advantages of high voltage (400V?) strings. Yes, with long strings you are limited to the "weakest" panel's output, but in many cases (at least well thought out cases) the shading of one panel is seldom an issue. For non rooftop systems I think you are better off going with long strings. Just make sure that your location does not have any shading issues.
You also can get good panels with shade dioxides
@@garyreed354 you can also get Tigo optimizers for shade affected strings.
But, Enphase has max AC output... Like highest is 290watts atm? SolarEdge and a string inverter don’t have this problem when sized properly
The maximum AC output seems low, but when you look at a panels NOCT rating you'll see its usually more than enough. You shouldn't be designing around STC ratings.
@@PacificSunTech I know, it still means it has an extra limitation even a string inverter doesn’t have. Point being: what makes Enphase better then solaredge? I’d say nothing; because the single inverter can be monitored by third party and warranty can be extended from 12 to 20/25y with SE.
In The Netherlands (not even that sunny or “best” place for solar) the output limits of Enphase do limit yearly output in kWh already.
If Tesla can work out how to manage battery pack, think they have worked some way of handling their panels and inverters.
Wishful thinking. I’m sure they’ll figure out how you can mine Dogecoin from your solar equipment too. 😂
@@PacificSunTech 😂
How much can you safely over panel with a solar edge system?
Depends on which model you have; the older generations and HD-Waves you can go up-to 150% DC to AC ratio. On the Energy Hubs you can do 200% DC to AC. Anything over 120%-130% is likely causing significant clipping depending on sit conditions.
@@PacificSunTech thanks for the info!
For the second time in my life I have the opportunity to get micro inverter and a delayed response on a relatively small quantity of them is allowing sampling for about a third of their normal price. I was impressed years ago by the end phase propaganda. I'm still not completely sure I understand why they only have a bundled box that has the monitoring system in it not just the distribution or whatever. It's my understanding presently without confidence that one of these microinverters can be connected to the grid directly even though the grid tends to want to have a second meter. It is also my understanding that simulating the grid is reasonably easy to do.
In other words the used price on those and phase microinverters seems to be competitive with an off-grid micro inverter. Especially if you're talking about a single panel! My project however is to use a single panel with a small amount of storage to pulse multi-second pulse alternative energy into appliances like high consumption appliances like not just freezers and refrigerators but if it is being used continuously every day other appliances. It is not necessary to synchronize the grid for these appliances. You just have to switch them on and off the grid going between the inverter and the grid but never simultaneously connecting them directly never allowing crosstalk never even bothering to synchronize. When it comes to the motor on a refrigeration compressor you might want to delay switching to the grid however many milliseconds but not long enough for it to slow down too much obviously you don't want a hard start on that refrigeration compressor. This is very simple to do. I've been talking it up some decades. It's comparable to the copper IndiuM gallium selenium outrageous success with very small areas on truck roofs. It's The Sweet spot because you can acquire customers like that cart launch very carte blanche. In other words like the setup conversion every house that has a kitchen sink PVC pipe to events on the roof has a solar panel popped next to it that doesn't even require sand be under the panel but just has a water bladder under the panel. The engineering standards for single-family homes allow the significant amount of weight in water to be put in the back of a panel which will print it from flying off the roof. I was told for example that when a tree root disturbs the sidewalk slab you can put aggregate down compress it and then concrete over it and the only thing is hearing the ramp to make it never get your bowl despite the change in altitude of the joining plank of concrete is gravity.
I'm also very concerned about your talking about the string inverter having some sort of resistive hot water heating smarts to it. That we have not criminalized resistive hot water heaters in for the botanically powered microwaves should not be piled on further buy a string inverter company and I hope that my understanding of what you're talking about is incorrect.
I know that neither of us are rational about the Tesla inverter cost engineering issue or this issue I raise LOL but sometimes instincts are very founded.
I can't understand how people who can hear the sound of an incandescent water heater are not horrified by it and how they prefer it to a heat pump? I understand that you might have to struggle to hear the high heat touching the water. That's the felony the internal temperature of the resistive heating element versus the target temperature at the faucet or shower head or even washing machine or dishwasher. That's what we can't afford. Now the liquid nitrogen company in Europe has admitted that when they are producing electricity from the liquid nitrogen they are doing so in four steps. That's insane! Rather obviously if perhaps incorrectly I also argue here at this comment that the grade of that potential energy is what makes it valuable and any system that cannot benefit from that extremely high yeah between the heat source that boils delivered good nitrogen liquids in a single swing is wasting much of the potential energy. I'm not saying it's the source of the low round trip efficiency but it certainly a suspect. What's more important is caring not about the round trip efficiency at all. What's most important is understanding that mental heat mantle heat is so cheap when acquired at the proper scale and shipping liquid nitrogen so insignificant when shipped at the proper scale then liquid nitrogen being so much less expensive Capital wise to use an electricity and most of the current consumption of electricity applications saves the planet quickly. We need to start building new icebergs replacement icebergs immediately. It's not about slowing down the loss of icebergs or delaying when they're all gone it's about restoring them as soon as possible freezing not melting however more slowly is not going to do it. You have to start freezing again. The project is about taking actions that immediately stop the melting entirely and start the freezing. Such a project has to affect the balance of heating versus cooling of the entire Earth. I understand that. That's not going to be fusion or any other such extravagance. It's going to be mechanical machines that make the windmills seem like toddler toys. You have to spind the air with mental heat into a liquid not merely slow it down. I'm for speeding up the wind and throwing it against the wall on its way to shipping it and atmospheric pressure across the oceans as a liquid. I am not for slowing it down. The chance that slowing down the weather systems on our planet will make the greenhouse effect even more destructive is real. The value of the electricity compared to that is a joke. Windmills can cause mass extinction not cancer but until we have simulated these systems better I stand by what is simple. Tap the heat that's in the core of the Earth and use that energy cheaply meaning inefficiently as the alternative to global warming gas release. Keep it simple or die that's the lesson for our species not across the coming decades but in the next year or two and hopefully in less than 2 years I will be able to speak as much as is necessary with plenty of people paying attention this is not that moment may come it is not here but I work towards it and believe in it and I'm sacrificing at least one loved one and certainly more than that despite not wishing to despite not having consented to. It's the rational thing to do but I don't approve of it. I have not had a chance to I'm just being blown by the wind the fear of Extinction that sort of thing. It's against my principles and my faith. Not all my principles of course but the exception to the rule for these people is irresistibly apparently being broken leaving me nearly paralyzed.
I love your vidéos, but on these key comparaisons you never include the storage battery into the équation, enabling up to off grid capability. Love both Enphase and SolarEdge but when a battery is added the performance gap between them should be dubbled, if not trippled, in favor of SolarEdge, due to the multiple DC/AC/DC/AC conversions required for Emphase compared to all AC generation + Storage for SolarEdge. Why not mentionning this ????
Comparing their battery system styles will have to be saved for another video. But it’s worth noting that while SolarEdge offers DC coupling, the backup capabilities are lackluster and the “partnership” with LG is a joke.
@@PacificSunTech
I look forward for that new vidéo. But I'll rather take TESLA Powerwall storage behind SolarEdge than theirs. Although not sure at this stage. Thanks for your Reply.
Tesla has a great battery for time of use, but you really need 2-3 of them if you want reasonable backup. We did a full series on AC batteries, DC batteries and AC vs DC batteries.
@@PacificSunTech
Fully agree. Thanks will recheck your previous videos on this.
Another thing that bothers me is to also use the heat generated underneath the pannels in my very hot south of France sea side summers (Hotter than Cali). Are you also looking at hybrid pannels like french made DualSun panels that combines photovoltaic pannels with a water+Glycol heat exchanger placed just under and connected to the hot water baloon of the home, but also if enough are installed, the swimming pool and why not an underground heat Storage system made of mud or water or else, coupled with a geothermic heat pump in the house, to get that summer harvested heat reused months later during the winter.
@@patrickfree5031 one of my favorite films was the red balloon but I really don't know if you're referring to envelope or some sort of seasonal energy storage system that is using a balloon? Glycol is not a phase change material it is the opposite of that it is an antifreeze. The store heat seasonally is not easy however ironically I believe the way that you pump heat into your home in the winter is by pumping heat out of the atmosphere in the summer and then using the potential energy of the atmospheric pressure liquid that is of course cyrogenically ultra cold by using again ironically the ample atmosphere heat on the coldest day to catalyze essentially the potential energy in the liquid air and spin the turbine that in turn spins a kind of turbine for refrigerant in other words it condenses it after it is evaporated by the winter heat. It is that high grade heat that comes from compressing the refrigerant in the winter into a liquid that heats your home. The energy again the energy is not electrical that you use to compress the refrigerant after the outdoor winter heat has boiled it but rather it is the torque on the shaft that is fun by using that same winter heat to boil the summer liquefied air.
Energy is energy heat pumping is heat pumping the problem that we have is the myopia of electricity. Electricity has externalities and they don't seem to be a deal breaker the copper that goes into the windings of a motor for example. But copper is a semi-precious metal that is capable like silver of being in insufficient quantity. It's like helium in other words but unlike helium we have never created a reserve. India has something of a copper reserve but ironically when it comes to heat the copper is coming from where the heat is so there is this deliberate effort to try to ignore the heat. In other words they pump frozen water down to get the copper from miles below the surface of the Earth. They should be pumping cyrogenic liquids down and using the expansion of those liquids namely nitrogen to liquefy additional nitrogen and export it as an alternative to methane since it is inert duh.
This was referred to as the liquid nitrogen economy before the fossil fuel industry was able to hack Wikipedia into renaming it. It seems like the Russian bots are continuing to make fun of the ability of the atmosphere when deprived of oxygen to kill. it's like saying handkerchiefs should not be sold because you can strangle somebody with them. Negatron is not a threat to us nitrogen is the way you can move energy. Nitrogen means you don't have to dig the energy out of the ground not even the copper!
What about Generac?
Generac is a cross between SolarEdge and Tesla... they offer sting optimizers rather than per panel optimizers. Generac’s PWRcell inverter thrives as a DC coupled battery backup system.
I think you did the Solar Edge efficiency math wrong. The optimizer and inverter are in series (power flows through the optimizer(s), then through the inverter) so therefor the losses are additive, not averaged. The net efficiency would be the multiplication of each efficiency (e.g. 99% x 99%), not the average
How about Sol-Ark?
We don’t work with that product but it’s a hybrid between the Tesla inverter and the SolarEdge StorEdge inverter.
@@PacificSunTech Maybe you should 🙂 It it s a "hybrid" inverter but its abilities place it far above Tesla and SolarEdge. Just own that you know nothing about it instead of trying to put it somewhere where it clearly doesn't belong.
If you have shading it's worth paying the extra money for micros or optimizers. I will say Tesla Powerwalls work best. Never a problem and more installs than I care to count. Had problems with LG Chem, SolarEdge and Enphase batteries out of the box. Tesla knows what they are doing. They also know what they are doing with their new line of inverters and the Powerwall +. If you use them in the proper applications. You can tell if there is a problem. The monitoring isn't perfect but isn't that difficult to understand. In most cases if there is a problem it's a micro and until the past few years an optimizer. SolarEdge has had some inverter problems recently but always honors their warranties. They will work it out. I have so many older models in the field that have done great for many years. I love SMA string inverters. They run forever. Tesla's will likely be the same. Tesla is making systems more affordable. So definitely use them where you can. If you care about ROI. The panel level rapid shutdown is solid state so you don't have the problems Generac is having. If you lived through the m150 and m190 generations of micros you know what a disaster they were. Only time will tell if the newer lines can handle the heat of roofs without failure. It's rare that somebody shows me their monitoring and there aren't a few dead micros. There is something to be said for a reliable string inverter that doesn't try and do too much. It's like trackers. They are cool but cost a lot more despite the added production. There are too many moving parts so you have increased failures. The way modern production estimation and design tools work you will get a very accurate production estimate. So many variables are taken into account. System turn on times aren't that much of a factor. Just selling points. Especially considering the higher wattage modules available. There is something to be said for a new version of low maintenance product that has stood the test of time IMO.
I'm waiting for panels to have this technology built-in. Not just per-panel, but per-cell, within each panel. Literally, built onto the individual cell as a tiny ship, since the voltage is so low at that level.
All setup to an optional inverter that accepts any input voltage and has the ability to output just the yielded amps, at the set output voltage. Maybe when the cells get up to being 30% efficient, and get down to $0.10 per watt, so it justifies the added, non-optional expense that should be "built-in". Also having the ability to individually replace an individual "CELL", within a "PANEL". Which would save most of these companies from going out of business, because they cram dozens of potential individual failures into one large package, which is an "all or nothing" nightmare that costs them a lot to replace, when one individual cell goes bad. Which is also unrepairable, to them as well.
Honey-comb panel cells... that's what we need.
See the Enphase web site for the Q series solar panel coupled with the microinverter all in one for a great price. (I'm just lurking at the technology, but this caught my eye!)
You state Solar edge inverter at 99.2% efficient and optimizer efficiency of 99.5% and the state 99.35% efficiency. The proper math would be to take the already. 8% loss and add the. 5% loss giving you 98.7% efficiency. It is not the average of the two but the combination of the 2.
You are correct, and we have noted this for future videos.
In addition to the mistake calculating the efficiency of the Solar Edge system, you also made a mistake regarding how a Solar Edge system fails. You are correct that losing the main inverter takes down the entire system. However you also indicated that a failed optimizer only takes out a single panel's production. That is incorrect. If a Solar Edge optimizer fails, it takes out its ENTIRE string until that optimizer can be replaced.
Yes, we did calculate the efficiency incorrectly. But as for the optimizer failure effecting the entire string it’s a rare incident and usually related to a greater issue.
It doesn't take out the whole string! The only way that happens is if it completely becomes incompacitated. Very rare.
Instead of adding and then taking a average, you should multiply then. Like 99% times 98%.
We were leaning towards Tesla, that is until we started learning about Tesla's business practices, which have been less than honorable. Recently, Tesla told customers who had SIGNED contracts that the price of their installations were going to be increased. Substantially. Customers who had already been waiting MONTHS for their solar installations now had the choice to either pay for the increase or cancel. That's just not right. If Tesla won't honor signed contracts, I can't trust them to honor their warranties either.
Enphase recently updated their pricing on their backup systems and they are much more affordable.
Dude, you calculated solaredge overall efficiency incorrectly. Multiplication not average!
Research radio interference before deciding on power optimizers. Do the research unless you don't care about radio interference for you and/or your neighbors. The FCC does not require manufacturers to install RF filters on new installations of power optimizers
I WOULD NOT TRUST THIS YOU-TUBE CHANNEL.
1) He admits up front that he's trying to sell you his solar services.
2) I got a Tesla quote for Solar in November 2020; it included SolarEdge optimizers as part of the architecture. This directly contradicts his statements on Tesla. Every local solar salesman told me the same story "Oh Tesla only installs string Inverters without micro-inverters or optimizers".
He sells Enphase and miraculously Enphase is always the best... You should always be wary of an installer that has a skin in the game themselves.
That hairdo looks like you stuck your finger into a solar-powered light socket.
I whole heartedly disagree with your assessment. With battery backup Enphase is the WORST option and also the most expensive and least efficient. "Old school" string inverters still very much make the most sense with DC coupled battery storage that is inverter agnostic and highly competitive in pricing. You can put Tigo optimizers on ANY string inverter to get the real and imaginary benefits of Enphase or Solar Edge setups. Anyone in 2022 that buys Enphase or a system without battery optimized for self consumption is wasting money. The only one benefitting from Enphase is installers and Enphase themselves.
Is there an inverter system that will give me the data regarding production and status... Unlike, the Solar Edge is in complete control of the inverters that you paid for. You need reliable internet for monitoring to work on a solar edge system. They utilize your LAN or a cell service to send data to Solar edge servers before you can access it. This info is not going to remain private. I don't want these solar edge inverter IOTs connecting outside my LAN. Soon , (if it's not already) solar edge will be required to present your data to government agencies. I was promised the data would be available directly on my LAN within my household. It is not - it goes out to solar edge then I can access it. Big Dog Solar and Smart Energy Today (the sales agent of Big Dog Solar) promised it would remain on my LAN. Lies as it does not. Someday the government will get the data before you can. Mark my words there will be a tax or worse outcome someday as a result of purchasing solar edge inverters.
Enphase and SolarEdge systems have installed toolkits that are used to connect directly to the systems for live data. Not the recommended method for monitoring but you could go about it that way if you had no form of internet.
Tesla doesnt use optimizers but it does use RSD under every 3-4 panels. Learn about RSD. Tesla outperforms solar edge
His Pricing is extremely still over priced. If you live in Texas and interested in Enphase battery backup you have to call Aztec Renewable Energy.
In Texas or if you're interested in battery backup I'd not get anything else but Sol-Ark.
As a Solar Advisor, I would never recommend SolarEdge Optimizers.
They lost a court case regarding their patents.
I like Enphase micro-inverters.
Talks too much, make it brief
It is worth noting, that although all lights and appliances in a typical house use AC power from the inverter, DC coupled batteries don't. If power exported to the grid is limited by the retailer, the battery can be charged by power that would otherwise not exist. For example, when my 13.25 kWh system is at full production only 5kWh can be exported. My 10 kWh inverter will then only be able to make up to 5 kWh available to my house and electric car. My DC coupled battery can charge from the 3 kWh in excess of the inverter's 10 kWh limit as the DC power from the panels can go straight to the batteries. The image at www.johnrogers.com.au/battery_charging_noon.jpg shows a 13.25 kWh system producing 12.39 kWh on December 22 (Sth Hemisphere) where 5 KW is going straight to the DC coupled battery, 2.43 KW being used by the house and electric car and the maximum is being exported to the grid. There is a strong case to delay charging the house battery until the middle of the day when the pv system is producing close to its maximum.