A Harrowing Sitcom Subversion | "Escape from L.A." Explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 เม.ย. 2020
- SPOILER WARNING FOR SEASONS 1-6 OF BOJACK HORSEMAN
Escape from L.A. is one of BoJack Horseman's best and most challenging episodes. For my 2nd individual episode analysis I breakdown how this episodes takes the tropes and ideas found in sitcoms and applies them to reality, flipping everything on its head. It's a really brilliantly written and structured dive into BoJack's mindset, and stunted mentality.
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It's still funnily stupid how Bojack fantasized about having a perfect life with this woman he probably just met a few times and thirty years later he thought she would be waiting for him with open arms, not having changed one bit and without having made a life of her own.
I guess Bojack is so self centered he thought Charlotte would be on stand-by , like everyone else is a supporting character on his show.
It showed that he is stuck in his past, referring to horsin around as an excuse for expectations
There are people like that in real life. Go completely mad if you don't uproot your life and leave with them
I don’t think that shows his self centred ness but I think it shows how much he wished to have a different life
He expected her to be the same because bojack was the same. He was a stunted 20 year old and never grew up. That’s why he never grows. He is incapable.
It just shows how few real connections Bojack truly had.
It always gives me chills when Charlotte says "I'll fucking kill you". Olivia Wild's performance makes you believe Charlotte would kill him.
You know, maybe a ninja steel magic shall teach him a lesson.
Me too. Her delivery of that line is excellent.
@@notaburneraccount Well you won't see that on Monday Night Raw or Friday Night SmackDown.
I also loved OliviaWilde's voice acting in Charlotte's final appearance in the series, you feel for her as a mother who is deeply concerned about Penny and how she may have been affected long-term emotionally by what Bojack did.
It's so believable as well. This isn't just protective anger at some creepy stranger. This is a feeling of genuine betrayal, the shame of letting in and trusting a person who then took advantage of someone you were responsible for.
i remember watching this for the first time and thinking 'nah, they wouldn't make him do that would they, they have to keep him likeable.' and then they did it and that was when i realized that this show is truly something else.
Same!
yeah it's like one of the best shows ever
I’m new to the show. After this, I think I need to brace myself with Season 3....
@@aweirdoandaphone4135 good luck indeed. wish I could experience it for the first time again
It’s kind of funny how hard they make it so he isn’t completely hatable from this though. They make the girl seventeen and trying to get him too do it as to not make him look like as terrible as if she was younger and he tried to make her do it first
"He metaphorically leaves the door open, by literally leaving the door open."
Edwin Mizen “The darkness is a metaphor for darkness”
XD
Another dumbest decision Netflix characters ever made. And I thought leaving Todd home alone was the dumbest...
Hmm yes the flier is made of floor
I want quote this as much as I humanly can, I love this
I think what disturbed me the most about Bojack going to prom with Penny was that the balloons with glowsticks thing was something he did with Charlotte back in the day. He clearly had a crush on her, hell he came to new mexico after her. And her daughter looks like a younger version of her so...you know?
Definitely, the entire thing sort of represents BoJack’s stunted development. He’s really trying to recapture the past
I didn’t notice that part. I recently watched this episode and I was already disgusted. Then noticing this detail just makes me wanna throw up
Oh shit that's wayyyyy too dark for me to take in, but I have to, for education's sake
He quite literally told penny she looked just like her mother, she was always a replacement for his love of charlotte and that’s the saddest thing :(
It's episodes like this that always made me think "this is exactly why this show has animal people in it."
Because if this scene where to play out with a real human 50 year old man and 17 year old girl, it would be far too uncomfortable to watch.
yup he's old enough to be her uncle
But we’re not gonna mention Princess Caroline and the 12 year old?
Jayce McQueen No, because I think the Princess Carolyn/Vincent Adultman scenario was too absurd and cartoonish to really be comparable. The idea of someone dating 3 kids in a trenchcoat that they’ve honestly mistaken for an adult isn’t the kind of scenario that would genuinely play out in real life. No real csa situation has ever resulted from something like that. The difference with the Bojack/Penny scenario is that “middle-aged adult being sexually inappropriate with a teenager” is something that happens all the time in real life. It’s a real concern.
@@ssai90 Didnt need a paragraph response, a simple no was fine. A horse taking advantage of a girl is just as realistic as a woman dating 3 kids stacked ontop of each other if you wanna go by that logic. I’m not saying bojack isn’t guilty I’m just saying no ones talking about Princess Caroline lmao
Jayce McQueen was it even a 12 year old? We never know maybe he was an adult man and we were seeing it through BoJack eyes. Vincent did have 2 freckles on one cheek and the kid had 3 so 🤷♀️. Also the two are not comparable Josie Poulter phrased it perfectly
even all the way back in season 2, this episode is STILL one of bojack’s most disgusting lows. (i mean that in a good way, just to clarify.) its one of the first real times that the audience is forced to consider whether bojack is a character they can root for anymore. one of the three or four episodes of the whole show that actually makes me genuinely nauseous. one of the series’ best for sure.
Haha you're gonna really like the first few sentences of this video 😉
Agreed even watching this great video and remembering how F - up the whole situation was made me feel nauseous
Yes, and I still I could understand why he would do such a bad thing. I could (to a point) relate to it, because it felt real. If wasn't too over the top, it just felt like real life.
@@Johnny2Cellos they really sound like a quote from RBW when he said it's the first time the audience sees Bojack as a character they maybe dont like
TimeN SpaceTraveler in your opinion what’s the other episodes
Another detail I love is how Bojack tells Penny “no” both times. The first time he is clearly against the idea and straight up says “no” and warns her that it isn’t what she wants. But the second time, when he believes that Penny is the closest thing to a life with Charlotte that he was denied moments ago, all he says to her is “go to bed Penny.” Doesn’t say no. And he leaves the door open. She does go to bed... HIS bed...
oh shit.
Yeah, the fact that he just gave up and basically said "yes" is unacceptable.
@@evieh6900 he didn’t even give in. He was entertaining the idea because her mom wouldn’t take him. He settled
He didn't say "yes", but it's even worse that he didn't actively say "no". He left the door open so Penny would try one more time, waiting for her to make the next move. Even when they're in bed together, she's the one taking of his clothes. By not saying "no", he's making Penny go after him.
Maybe in Bojack's mind, he felt like that would give him deniability. To make himself feel better, he can tell himself that sleeping with Penny was something that happened *to* him, not something that he actively participated in.
This comment makes the original ordeal all the more grotesque
I hate when people only blame penny for what happened. Yes, she was the one who was pushing it, but it was BoJack who was going to use Penny as a rebound when Charlotte rejected him
Also, it's on the ADULT to make the right decisions, regardless of how hard the teenager pushes it.
Exactly! The thing is, yes, Penny shouldn't have pushed, but we have to remember she is a naive child, albeit an older one. It was Bojacks responsibility as the adult in this situation to shut things down, and possibly talk to Charlotte and prompt her to have a talk with Penny. Penny didn't know what she wanted here, and Bojack took advantage of that despite it being Penny who pushed it. The fact that he just gave up after saying no twice never fails to make me hate him in this episode. We know from scenes later in the show that Penny was left traumatized by this, and Bojack was almost completely in the wrong.
People tend to forget 17 is very young, you are still a kid at that age. What if she got pregnant? That would have destroyed her life, specially with someone who's age could be your own grandfather.
I think that Penny is part to blame but overall Bojack is definitely the most at fault
Facts plus she was still a kid in the end who thought she was really ready but I think she wasn’t
The idea of bojack, a 50+ year old man taking a 17 year old girl to prom made me extremely uncomfortable throughout this episode. I was surprised it was never mentioned how weird it was that they went along with it
That is why it is so smart to make the characters animals. It makes those seriously awkward or scary situations less dramatic
@@briankim0412
What about in Fritz the Cat, Duckman, Regular Show and Wolf Children?
I was a bit uncomfortable, but took it as an uncle taking his niece to prom, which is still weird, but more comforting than thinking of them the other way. But once the mood started to change, oh god I was so uncomfortable.
I saw it as a satire of these headlines that you seem to get every spring of someone asking a famous person to prom and getting a yes.
It’s a cartoon show, how fragile is your mentality to be “uncomfortable “ about it? For gods sakes it’s a horse taking a deer to the prom.
This episode had me go from "Aw, BoJack is really good with kids; I bet he'd make a great Dad" to "Aw, Penny's got a crush on him - that's kinda cute" to "Oh god no."
I never thought penny "having a crush" on him was cute tbh
aurora I had a crush on my teacher when I was a kid. Nice man. Hope he's doing well. But he was NOT like bojack and would've never taken advantage of Teenage Me.
@@auroramacula I think it depends on how mature you are when you watch it. I was fresh out of highschool when I saw that episode, and I was swept away in the fantasy of it. And I remember feeling conflicted at the end. Looking back as an adukt, I can recognize how monumentally fucked up it was, but I knew what she felt in that moment.
@@alejandrorivas4585 yea but I'm 17 and I watched it when I was still 16. I was and still am a teenager and I never found it attractive or cute. I think that's just me though!
It's cute but it's weird because Bojack is always shown to be ugly and unattractive. He's not a dilf or a hot professor; he's an ugly, hairy man with eyebags and a rough voice. Older men can be attractive to young people but Bojack doesn't seem like one of those, which is why I don't understand Penny in all of this. Like, okay, she's a kid but she's a kid with bad taste. Haha.
The most memorable quote of this episode is Bojack telling Penny she "looks just like (her) mother". It shows how attempting to sleep with Penny was Bojack trying to make some semblance of a happy ending by any means necessary
Think what's both ironic as it is fucked up too is if Charlotte hadn't intervened I think given the heat of the moment Bojack would have gotten Penny pregnant. And then there would have been a good chance the two of them would have gotten hitched as his parents did.
And eventually, he would become just like his father because he most likely would have grown to resent Penny since all she ever was to him was a stand-in for Charlotte whom he only infantized that he loved based on his idea of what life would be like with her. Bojack is definitely one of those people that like and desperately craves the idea of being in love with someone, but the reality when and if it happens for him always leaves him yearning for more.
That and I personally would argue that Wanda WAS Bojack's Charlotte. Because had he not pushed her away with his bitterness and loathing they could have had a pretty good life together I think.
Bojack’s dad said the same thing to both Beatrice and Henrietta. That’s what shook me to my core when i rewatched that scene.
@@rosyrascalz bojacks dad said that beatrice and henrietta reminded him of HIS mother
@@ASymbolicSymbol omg that adds a whole new level of fucked up. The continuity of Bojack is incredible and makes you notice new things even as you rewatch the show.
@@ASymbolicSymbol Lol Charlotte would not have let Bojack, a middle aged man, marry her teenage daughter due to a pregnancy. Also how can Wanda be “Bojack’s Charlotte”? Charlotte is Bojack’s Charlotte
This episode was such a gut punch, it’s incredible
I know it’s so stressful I literally have only watched it once.
It's because there trying to show that's how life is it's a real gut punch
I was hoping for more episodes with charrlote and penny.
But they left this unexplained.
Ty
Yeah it’s a slow burn and you knew it was coming from the jump but not prepared for it 😬
I already thought it was weird that he took Penny to prom, but it's when he said she looked like her mom that I knew shit was gonna get bad
I don’t really think it was that weird that he took Penny to prom, I think he was legitimately trying to help her out. Besides the plan was just to make her crush jealous. It wasn’t until Penny started developing a crush that I thought the episode got weird. Even then though, Bojack said no. Then the boat scene happened and I couldn’t do it anymore. I actually had to skip the rest of the episode.
@@micah4305 I think you're right that it wasn't Bojacks first intention to sleep with Penny when he arrived. I also think that this was something that developed in the two months he spend with them.
But I think that he clearly had intentions when he talked Penny into going with him. If you rewatch the episode you see how uncomfortable Charlotte is whit this idea and clearly sees it as a red flag.
It was A LOT more wholesome in Inside Job. That's because Brett is literally the purist bean.
@@micah4305 Brett is completely unable to do anything problematic
I love how the chord that plays when Charlotte catches him is repeated every time New Mexico is brought up, it’s a cool way of showing the panic/guilt that he feels every time Penny is mentioned
I actually take that music sting and play it in my videos whenever I mention New Mexico or Penny but 🤫 don’t tell anyone
Funny how this escape from LA is what doomed his future
No this was a warning. And it was after SL Bojack's fate was sealed.
Coolkat butterfly affect
@@falconeshield im sorry but what the hell is SL?
A Journey Towards Happiness Sarah Lynn
He screwed up badly in New Mexico. One of the top fked up things he did.
I love that you pointed out the significance of the glowstick balloons and how they reflect BoJack's stunted emotional growth. On rewatch, I'd noticed that, before we hear from Charlotte that they'd done the same thing 20 years ago, BoJack pretends to have the idea on a whim. The glowstick balloons are both a hollow effort to impress some teenagers and a desperate attempt to recapture BoJack's carefree youth and glory days, accompanied by someone he might see as a "younger" version of Charlotte. There's a real sadness to it, as well as the looming sense of danger. After seeing the rest of the series, we can also relate BoJack's actions to Mr Peanutbutter's stunted emotional state, where he keeps switching out his romantic partners for someone younger after they inevitably outgrow him. Sure, they go about it in different ways, but both characters have been warped by the sitcom mindset. Great video, please make more of these!
The glowstick balloons are also an extremely apt allusion to BoJack's pattern of desperately pursuing fleeting pleasures at a moment's notice without a thought or care. A few minutes of pretty floating lights, at the cost of scattering toxic trash somewhere downwind, potentially choking or polluting wildlife (who in this universe could well be people too). A few minutes of living out his fantasy of being with Charlotte, at the cost of scattering all sorts of damage into a young girl's entire future, potentially causing untold suffering to her and her family. After his initial rejections, BoJack seems to satisfy his cognitive dissonance by settling into a simplified view of the situation: Penny ceases to register as a vulnerable teenager and his old friend's daughter, allowing him to act as he would with any young fan hoping to score with him. It's very tough to see resembling an adult, aware of responsibilities and priorities, rejecting Penny, only to then regress and give in the next second.
It's very telling that it's one of the glowstick balloons, a reminder of BoJack's deep-seated self-centeredness and thoughtlessness, and a callback to how these qualities are still so evident in him, that shifts Charlotte's mistrust into full gear.
Excellent analysis.
Great comparison between BoJack and Mr. Peanut Butter! I never noticed that similarity!
My favorite callback to this episode was when Hollyhock met "Pete Repeat," who now goes by Peter. When we first meet Peter and Maddie, they both act like stereotypical teenage characters that you would find in a disney movie or a sitcom. Cringy, dumb, one note and honestly, not all that interesting. The narrative presents them not as genuine people, but as archetypes, which makes it easier for the viewer to not think twice about them.
After all of the things that Bojack had done, *somehow* the narrative found a way to make the viewer forget about how he gave a minor *alcohol poisoning.* This was accomplished due to the fact that his other actions overshadowed the alcohol poisoning; we're more creeped out about him taking a girl to prom, hitting on a married woman, and nearly sleeping with a minor.
Then we meet Peter much later and see that he's grown up, and the narrative presents him as a person. Not a silly archetype, or a cringey kid, but as a grown person who had thoughts and feelings that were deeply effected by Bojack's actions, and he will never, ever realize that he literally put a kid (probably several kids) through therapy.
It's a fantastic example of how brilliant the writing is, at least from a narrative standpoint. So many things build on each other, and they know how to make us focus on certain details while glancing over others.
Anytime the events of this episode were brought up, I thought back to that moment. I understood we were expected to assume Maddie survived and I felt like not bringing that up was the show's way of emphasizing how little concern BoJack had for Maddie's well-being once he made sure he'd be able to avoid consequences. When we saw Peter again and he started explaining his alcohol-related trauma, I recognized him when he mentioned a man living with a girl and her father, obviously referring to BoJack, Penny, and Kyle. I was excited to see him again and happy to hear the show finally say that Maddie made it, but it also filled me with a sense of dread because the moment I had waited so long for was playing a part in the downfall of BoJack's new beginning. Another thing I find weird is how we never saw or heard about Trip again after this episode to the point where I forgot his name until finished the series and started watching clips and analysis videos again. Whenever we saw Penny, I'd ask "How's your brother doing?" But that question was never answered. He suffered from Chuck Cunningham Syndrome, another sitcom trope, ironically/fittingly enough.
I just want to say that as a teen I experienced something similar to what Penny experienced and I thought this episode was going to trigger me but it didn't. It's a real testament to the writing when a show can talk about heavy and dark subject matter with the intention of taking it seriously instead of just pure shock value. Bojack Horseman was a genuine show that did just that and I'm always thankful for its existence.
this is an aside, but i'm really sorry that happened to you as a kid. you did not deserve it.
Sorry about what happened to you but yes I agree, they handled serious topics very well
I'm sorry about what happened to you, and yeah, you're right about how this show tackles dark subjects.
Right seeing how it caught up with him and the effects it had on penny years later especially with seeing him again and making it clear how awful it was for a grown adult to take advantage of a young kid. In a way it was cathartic to see BoJack get punished for his actions even if it was years later, it still happened and caused trauma even if he was “over it”. I’m so sorry that that happened to you and I’m glad this episode wasn’t a trigger and hopefully one that was cathartic for u too. Thank you for sharing 💖this show is more than a cartoon and can tackle real life issues much love to u
Indeed. I felt kinda called out by Penny. When I was a teen, I was full of that "don't worry, I'm technically legal" stuff, and when she said "you talk to me like I'm just a person instead of a dumb kid" early in the episode I was like uh-ohhhh.
Like I suspect Bojack thought, or told himself, at first, that he was treating her like anybody else just to be respectful, to not talk down at her, etc. But then, through his insinuating into their life, and by leveraging all of his charm and charisma on her family, he ended up putting himself in a situation where he could take advantage of her. Pretty basic groomer shit, intentional or otherwise, it still happened.
I'd always told myself, that I initiated everything, much like Penny seems to think in this episode. But now I have to wonder, how many people "just treated me like a person" with explicit intent? How many had no intent at all but just took the opportunity after I was pushy enough? Y'know? Like, I would be like that creepy guy online who mostly talks about video games and anime but every so often I'd be like "hey let me send you nudes" etc, until folks either blocked me or gave in. Except, of course, unlike that creepy guy stereotype, I was 15/16.
Like you, I was pretty worried about how the writers were gonna handle it once I could see where it was going, which was basically as soon as the driving lesson scene, because everyone is written SO FUCKING WELL. But, like you, I was pleasantly surprised.
Not just in this episode, but also the ways they kept going back to it later, that really impressed me. Penny not being able to throw away the prom photo even though it's bad memories... whoof.
And, of course, naturally I still feel conflicted about my life stuff. Not least because of the idea that it was 110% all my idea. But because I.. don't hate all the memories? Not everybody actually sucked? Some in fact were overall pretty considerate people, even though I can see with hindsight that any relationship like that was a mistake and the cracks in the ground which eventually turned into chasms were in fact there from the start.
But, it's hard for me to hate most of them still. There's like, two or three, whom I really do feel resentful and bitter over, just like I hate my abusive mother. But the rest? I dunno. It's easy to look back and go "why on earth would you let me talk you into that???" in my head, but I still can't really regard them as more than a really bad mistake.
Which is weird, because, I'd never tell anybody else to consider those angles about their own trauma/sexual abuse experiences. But when evaluating my own memories, those feelings come up again and again. Probably because, again, for so long I felt as if it were entirely my decision.
But also probably largely because my home life sucked way harder and I could feel that so much more clearly at the time. So, in the moment, those people made me feel seen and I felt like I had nice times, they were like... the only respite from that shitty home life. Restaurant meals and presents and cinema viewings.
So I guess I just feel mostly weirdly bittersweet about a lot of them. Like Penny with her photograph, kinda. Even though I can recognise those as methods of ingratiating/grooming looking back, there's still nagging feelings about whether they were consciously deciding (except for the 3 I do hate, they were definitely consciously doing it) or just irresponsibly going with the flow. Which, of course, is still terrible. Yet I can't bring myself to just be like "fuck you [steve mcfakename]" about them.
I often randomly go about my day and wonder how Penny is gonna do when she's in her mid-20s, or her 30s, how she's gonna develop, which kind of people she'll have relationships with. Some of the scenarios which Sarah Lynn tormented BoJack with on their super sleuth blackout montage... IDK, some of them could well be in the cards for Penny depending on how well things go for her. I know I'm certainly not over any of my stuff, over a decade on. And I _did_ find myself dating similar kinds of people in adulthood before, after a number of those adult relationships all blew up in similar ways in a short timespan, I decided dating wasn't a good idea for where my brain was at. And I've been doing a looot of introspection over COVID.
Hopefully this is okay to say, I don't wanna like, hijack your thread? But what you said resonated a lot with me, unfortunate as it may be that it did in the first place. I haven't been journalling as much throughout COVID for whatever reason, so I guess the introspection and this episode and your own comment about your own experiences.. just got all the pieces to line up in my brain?
Also hopefully I kept things vague and general enough to not, itself, be triggery.
This is when the show goes from a good show to a holy crap this show is mind blowingly amazing show, specifically when he is driving in the desert and sees the horse running and closes his eyes, that moment is when the show changes.
The show was like 'Wow, that was pretty good' to 'OH MY STARS, THE SHOW IS SO GOOD!!!!! AMAZING! HEARTBREAKING!!! JUST PLAIN AWESOME!
That’s what makes this show such a gem. The first half of the first season was kind of meh, and I only stuck with it because I was watching Netflix while waiting for someone (for a couple hours). It doesn’t really get going until season 2. It’s one of those shows where you recommend it to someone and say “okay, so it’s awesome but you have to watch it for several hours before there’s any real payoff”.
@@froggyplatypus the first half of the first season tries humor in the style of simpsons or family guy, then they magically find their own voice and it’s amazing after that.
the peaks of Bojack honestly top EVERY show I watched, it's a completely different beast than any of the other shows that get constantly mentioned like Breaking Bad, the Simpsons, whatever
nothing has really came close to making me feel the same emotions and delivering a story that touches on so many real topics while still being fun to watch like it and I can't believe it doesn't get more attention and praise
That’s the episode “that went well”
I think the balloons being green is a homage to the green light symbol in the great gatsby. Just like in gatsby it represents the life bojack (& gatsby) want to go back to but can’t have
Read a book sometime - Isabelle
i feel like there's a lot of great gatsby references in the show
Natalie Sharp yeah I see a ton of gatsby and catcher in the rye references/similarites
@@alexverdana2435 In many respects "Bojack Horseman" feels like "The Great Gatsby" but for 21st Century television.
Or as Mad Men put it “It’s a place we ache to go again.”
"Kyle and the kids" was actually a bop
It always bothered me that the alcohol poisoning was swept under the rug. A kid almost died, and he suffered little to no consequences, except Hollyhock starting to distance herself from Bojack later. Penny's situation was complicated and revolting, but Maddie was also a victim of a selfish manchild who only had his own future in mind when he dumped her at the hospital.
It was good they brought up how shitty and fucked up it was when pete “repeat” and hollyhock had that conversation
He's rich and famous... Realistic imo
She's Sarah Lyn but she survived and called the paramedics on time
This was the episode where I went from "I'm enjoying Bojack a lot" to "This is one of my favorite shows ever" ... which is amusing because it's a super hard episode to watch, and on every rewatch of this season, I always dread it, even though I also think it's amazingly well crafted. Thanks for the detailed break-down!
Every time I rewatch this season I secretly pray it'll turn out differently even as I watch things play out as they always have and always will. It's truly painful.
I saw Raphael Bob-Waksberg be interviewed back in December and he talked about how they actually made a whole ending where he tries to sleep with Charlotte and penny walks in on them. The idea for him and penny came from someone on the team and was dismissed really quickly at first, but when they saw the ending they made it didn’t hit hard enough and made the penny ending. It’s interesting to me that this huge moment in the show could have been so different.
Wow. Change of plan.
I like to believe in an alternate universe he ended up with Charlotte. Of course, she was too good for him.. but she would have helped him grow.
@@Optimystik I don't think so. Bojack put Charlotte on a pedestal. Was he really in love with her?
@@falconeshield No.
Mucho texto
When BoJack offered to take Penny to the prom, I saw that as him forcing his way into the family. There's a few interesting things to note about it:
• Penny accepts almost immediately. Had she already thought of coming onto BoJack by that point then?
• Charlotte seems skeptical which shows she knows it is wrong. However she also seems to know nothing about Penny's friends or her crush, whereas BoJack does. This again shows how BoJack forced his way in and Penny trusts BoJack more than Charlotte
• Kyle wanted to drive Penny to the prom and seems upset when he realises BoJack is taking her. BoJack has replaced Kyle as Penny's father figure and he's basically given Kyle the boot of all the activities he might've done, such as helping Penny with her driving or taking her to prom
Thats my thoughts on the scene, and I wish you'd have talked about it more. There's probably even more ways to interpret the characters and their thoughts by that point, I'd love to hear everyone else's opinion
The whole situation seemed unrealistic to me. If i was a parent, i would not let strangers around my kids alone. I don't get why Charlotte and Kyle trusted him right away and even let him take their daughter to prom. Even though Charlotte knew who Bojack was she hadn't seen him in like 20 years so how well did she even know him to begin with? I guess what i'm saying is there were so many red flags right away and the parents either didn't see them or ignored them. Sure Bojack was the adult and he should have done the right thing, but he was the predator in this situation and it was the parent's job to protect Penny from people like Bojack.
@@zephyr3693 Well that's the thing, Charlotte obviously considered BoJack an old friend and not a stranger or someone she kinda may have sorta known 20 years earlier. She let him stay over for an extended time, practically integrate into the family, and take Penny to the prom. Nothing in the episode makes sense if Charlotte doesn't have solid (if misplaced) trust and fondness for BoJack up until the situation forces her to drop that.
People don't have bad apple radars, as much as we would like to think we do. That's why the majority of abuse happens with people you know. Life thrusts all these relationships and connections on us from day one, and various forces from sheer instinct to social pressure and religious doctrines coax us to obedience, conformity, and trust as if they are owed by default, not something to be earned. Questioning and doubt are made to be hurtful and wrong, not necessary tools of intelligent thought, as if someone's feelings are more important than our ability to protect ourselves. Abuse thrives in such atmospheres. From a Nordic viewpoint, US social culture seems especially prone to expecting openness and trust very quickly and totally.
Coming back to Charlotte, BoJack came to her specifically because she represented the "good old days", a rewind to a nostalgic, better past, a clean slate. Being with her, BoJack could play pretend like L.A. didn't actually happen, like he didn't turn out to be an awful person who did awful things and blamed everything but himself. That's the name of the episode, even, L.A. standing for not just the location but the entire section of BoJack's life he's spent there.
All this wouldn't be possible if Charlotte was up to date with who BoJack became after they parted ways. They were close then, but haven't had much contact at all in twenty years, so BoJack's image retains the qualities Charlotte's naîve and superficial and not-very-self-aware young adult mind put to memory. She focused on her own life elsewhere, and doesn't seem like the type to stay up to day with celebrity gossip. When BoJack turns up on her door, is it really a wonder that she's off guard and almost acts like it was the same young horseguy from 20 years ago stepping out of a time machine?
I'm not saying she did the right thing, just that I understand why she did what she did.
And he’s only close to Penny because he has power over her (naive, sad about her friend, desperate for male approval/interest). Creepier the more you think about it...
@@peccantis I guess that makes sense i just thought it was weird they just opened the door wide open for this dude that Charlotte hadn't seen in 20 years and who Kyle didn't know at all. I don't criticize them too much though it's just another sad reminder of how careful and suspicious parents have to be now days, you can't trust anyone around your kids, not strangers and sometimes not even friends
@@zephyr3693 the episode felt very "michael jackson" when i first watched it if you get what i mean, the surface level of wholesomeness to bojacks relationship with the family it seems very innocent if you dont think about it but theres an inherent creepiness to the whole thing once you turn your brain back on
I think one of the best things about Penny's story is how affected she was later in life. It's so often that it's brushed to the side because nothing happened, because she was almost of age, because she propositioned him first. And instead of just leaving it as two people who made bad decisions like many shows would, she was traumatized. Charlotte suggested to her in a later season on not coming out about what Bojack had done because of her panic attacks. She was very much a victim to Bojack's want to be with Charlotte, his selfishness and the power complex he held over so many other characters. And that was the best part of this show in my opinion when they decided to make her a victim. Not a participant.
She wasn't a participant, she was the aggressor. It makes sense she might regret her actions later, but having panic attacks seems like a weird thing. Do they trigger whenever she tries to pin someone down and take their clothes off?
@@JD-wu5pf Children can't be the aggressor to an adult, I can't imagine what kind of mental gymnastics you have to use to think that. Bojack was the one responsible for what happened, he took advantage of a child that he (purposefully or not) groomed. And it makes sense penny would have ptsd from almost being raped
@@whatdoyoucallanalligatorin9174 She was 17, she wasn't a child. She wasn't raped. She initiated sex and then regretted it later.
@@JD-wu5pf how thw fuck is she an agressor? get help
@@JD-wu5pf My man why do you have to be so close minded like that? It's not about having sex, it's about an old man taking advantage of you
God that final part of the episode made me feel sick
It's amazing how close the writers kept the show's protagonist to completely irredeemable but manage to keep him from completely cross the line while still wanting (and often getting) someone to finally call him out on his shit.
@@ScorpionViper1001 it really is. the writing of bojack horseman is downright amazing, my goodness
- "Bojack"
- "Yes Dear"
- "Supper's ready"
The exact same dialogue that happens in Downer Ending when Bojack is chopping wood outside in Maine is happening again when Charlotte calls him in from his boat in New Mexico.
For me this is the most harrowing moment of this episode, it shows how much Bojack is caught up in his dream world, and they might have even used the same bit from back in Season 1
Ups, i got caught up in the moment. Sorry guys. Bojack does not say "Yes dear" Still its a great callback to Downer Ending in my opinion
That's why he haven't seen her for 30 years until the second season.
“Yes deer”
This is kinda off-topic, but I really like paying attention to the music. I like how whenever they bring up the “incident” on the boat, it plays that little guitar thing.
I grab that music sting and play it whenever I bring it up in my BoJack videos too haha, love that stuff
I just noticed the way Bojack tells Penny "I didn't... like the person i was in LA".
He delivers the line in the *exact* same way Sarah Lynn does when she tells him "I don't... like anything about me" back at the motel, the night she died :(
It’s not just the fact that Bojack took Penny to prom, it’s the fact that Bojack hadn’t talked to Charlotte in 30 years and didn’t even know she had a family. So the first thing he did was move in with the family, take the underage daughter to prom, give her alcohol, abandon her friend in the hospital, threaten her other friend to not tell a soul that they were there, and then tried to sleep with her after her mother rejected him, because again, she has a family. I’m shocked that I watched this whole episode once and it never occurred to me how horrible Bojack was that early in the series
Bruh this video started with Will Arnett’s Reese’s commercial
Your profile picture is giving me anxiety
Lmao I also got the Reese's commercial
I don’t know if I’m gonna be able to watch those again lol
Stuff that loser's mouth with Reese's Pieces dumbass!
Like another comment stated, Bojack assumed Charlotte's life would be put on hold for him, even though they didn't know each other for that long. But what's even more self-centered is when he goes back to Penny to make amends on his bender, he expects her to be this broken person because of what he did, when she's just trying to live her life and move past it because she knows she was young and dumb.
He somehow had the right and wrong idea at the same time. The right idea was wanting to apologize for his gross actions, but it was the wrong idea that he'd think she'd be completely ruined. He has a hard time with accepting that people move on no matter if he was involved or not.
@@choco_L8 He also went about it the wrong way. Sure, he wasn't correct that she was completely DESTROYED by what he did, but she WAS still traumatized and apparently had panic attacks for some time after her experience. Him popping back into her life for the selfish goal of wanting to make HIMSELF feel better was just so irresponsible... Story of his life, right?
The worst part was that we saw the episode almost go in a completely different and more "healthy" route. Penny's dad is seen almost taking her to prom, but Bojack asks her first which prompts Kyle to walk away in sadness. I thought it was a stupid detail, but once you know how to episode goes, you realize that the entire situation could've gone much better had Bojack thought of someone besides himself and allowed them to live their lives without his intrusion.
Wait, wait, wait, wait. THAT"S the intro for that episode??? Have I literally *never* noticed that that episode was missing it's intro? Here I thought that was just a silly transition sequence??
. . . I always interpreted that glow-stick balloon as going one of two ways. It could have been this romantic, flashback element for Charlotte to remember good times with BoJack, or . . . the other way.
Something interesting I thought of is that Hollyhock only knew what Pete told her. Which means she only knew about Madison's alcohol poisoning. Imagine what she would have done if she knew about Penny. She might have cut ties with Bojack even sooner.
8:20 absolutely off topic, I loved the detailed of Wanda's torso just spinning while the head stays. These respective animal features give the show these lighthearted moments.
Could you do a video that covers how much time has passed during the series. Like during the old sugarman place, 8 months passed, so it would be really cool if you could do that.
I've been thinking about doing a complete timeline video, I've put a lot of work into compiling the events chronologically. It's a huge project though, but it's being considered!
Omg please that needs to happen
That would be awesome! I certainly lost track lol
Johnny 2 Cellos dude that would be sick
I never even thought abt the fact the episode purposely replicates a sitcom
I would want the next analysis to be on either time's arrow or the old sugarman place. Both of them have a ton going on and are both very good episodes
Two of my all-time favorite episodes from the show. I recently rewatched Time's Arrow and broke down sobbing at the end.
I would like one about free churro and good while it lasted
The dynamic between Bojack and Charlotte reminds me greatly (no pun intended) of Jay Gatsby and Daisy Buchanan from The Great Gatsby. Gatsby only dated Daisy for a month, yet he let the that one month dictate the next five years of his life. He was obsessed with becoming wealthy by all means necessary in order to impress Daisy. When he finally is in contact with her again (after FIVE YEARS) he’s disappointed to find out that she’s married with a daughter. Gatsby is obviously disappointed that Daisy moved on. However, he has trouble letting go of the past, as their are moments where he tried to force Daisy to say that she still loves him, and never loved her husband. The same goes for Bojack. He knew a woman for a few months, was obsessed with the idea of her, only to be disappointed that she moved on.
Another comparison I make with Bojack and The Great Gatsby is the green light. All throughout the novel, there is mentions of a green light. The green light represents the American dream- how everyone wants to chase it. In Bojack, he released green balloons. This can represent his dream of having a normal life. And both in The Great Gatsby and Bojack Horseman, our main characters never truly reach the green light. In fact, trying to chase the green light only results in trouble. For Gatsby, it resulted in the deaths of himself and the Wilsons. Charlotte stumbles upon Bojack and Penny after she follows the green light.
Awesome analysis with the green light! I also saw a huge connection with The Great Gatsby, but I never realized how much the green light was shown in this as well.
Only started watching bojack horseman last year and now I’ve seen all of it I still think this is the worst thing bojack ever did, Sarah Lynn and Gina are probably tied for second. Until this episode I thought he was actually a good person deep down but this episode proved otherwise. It was a very brave decision on the writer’s part to make this decision to solidify to the audience that Bojack is actually a toxic prick and his depression isn’t an excuse for that but ultimately it was the right one.
Yeah his actions here are 100% intentional. Gina and Sarah Lynne were more violent but there was some loss of control that gives Bojack a bit of an out. But with Penny, he wasn't high out of his mind. He wasn't in crisis trying to cover his ass. He chose to cling to his fantasy about being with Charlotte after she rejected him, and he used her 17yo daughter as a surrogate.
Sorry for replying to a 2 year old comment, but I’d still say Sarah was the worst thing he’d done by a longshot with this most likely placing second. 17 minutes of actively letting someone die beats out impulsivity any day.
@@thechosenone5644 Honestly, I'd say they're equally bad. He hurt 2 different children because of his selfishness. 1 of them lived to regret it, the other didn't.
In the final season, when I realized I was rooting for Bojack to be happy (with no repercussions) at the end and hated the reporters for trying to expose him...I was so disappointed in myself. As a very vocal supporter of #metoo in real life, even the thought that I could support a fictional predator just because I've gotten to know him for a few seasons of television was just...heartbreaking and eye-opening. I guess we make excuses for people we love and try to protect them as a reflex, even when some of their "mistakes" are irredeemable. How disturbing.
catdog it’s really hard. I think that’s was art can do make us learn about ourselves and help us grow.
But Bojack surely wasn't the sexual predator he was portrayed as. He made many mistakes and did disgusting things, but he wasn't a sexual predator.
@@johgu92 I mean wasn't he? At the end of the day, he was very willing to have sex with an underage girl if he wasn't interrupted by the mother.
@@edabakb That doesn't make him a sexual predator, while I certainly don't think that it was ok, it still was her idea to have sex, he shouldn't have given in but still it isn't like he did much to get her into bed.
@@johgu92 true, but he DOES have a weird relationship with young girls doesn't he? It's not exactly grooming, but he even had sex with SL whom he watched growing up from the age of like 10 or something. SL was an adult when it happened, yes, but it's still icky. I understand maybe the word "predator" doesn't quite apply here, I don't know how else to explain what I mean. English isn't my 1st language, I'm sorry 🙈
This might be a coincidence, but has anyone else noticed how in the first episode of this series, the episode of horsin around that was implied to be one of Bojack’s most rewatched episodes is the one about a prom, and how in this episode, one of Bojack’s most rewatched episodes of his sitcom life is put into a real life setting and has vastly different outcomes.
I’ve always thought that Charlotte symbolizes that first love we’ve all had. The first person we’ve truly felt something for, whether it be as a kid with a schoolyard crush or in high school admiring the popular person or just someone you never had the courage to ask out. So over time you compartmentalize them and turn them into a static object, a what if frozen in time that you think about every now and then. And then one day you encounter them or see them on social media, as an actual person in a relationship or even married with kids, and realize that they’re not that idea anymore, and perhaps they never were. You weren’t in love with someone, you were in love with your idealized version of that person.
This episode is kind of weird to me because there is a lot of thoughts and feelings that I have towards it. I first watched BoJack Horseman for it to subvert my expectations and this episode did that, in a rather dark way. It caught me so off guard that it put me on my toes for the rest of the entire series. It also went a little in depth into a character that I am awfully curious about for some reason, I am not exactly sure why I am myself really, that character being Charlotte. Charlotte really fascinates me because I feel like she’s a lot more optimistic and laid back version of me. I never really related to much characters in other shows before, but I think Charlotte is the first person that I actually related to, that or it might be a crush, idk. I really aspire to be more like Charlotte because I think she is a good role model for me.
Then there is Penny, and her story fascinated me because of how sad it is, and how sadder that it is because BoJack is involved. Penny reminds me of someone that I would see down the hallway of my highschool or that one person in my math class or something. She’s average, but because she is average, the fact that she is put into an abnormal situation like the one she is put in the show, makes it more uncomfortable. I’m not a stranger when it comes to feeling confused with my feelings towards people or trying to understand my emotions, and what happened to Penny is exactly what I fear in myself with these emotions. I first watched BoJack when I was 17, the same age as Penny at the time, and like her I was really confused with myself, and the environment she was in was something extremely familiar to me. The ordinary suburban family and the ordinary everyday run in the mill high school is a life that I’ve become accustomed to. When I first saw what happened to Penny I was shocked that something like that would happened. It was kind of made me think about what other people’s lives contained outside of myself, and also the possibility that if I were to expose myself like that to someone else, would the same thing or something similar happen to me? I remember reflecting back on this episode being rather scared and frightened on how powerless someone of my age group is compared to the powers of the outside world, it made me look inside my own vulnerabilities as a teenager myself and through that I wanted to become stronger so I wouldn’t have that happen to me. I mean I know that realistically I wouldn’t be at the same disadvantage as her, I am a 18 Year Old, White Male, who is like 6,0 tall, people would probably be pretty scared of me, but something always tells me through her experience that I need to be stronger so that nothing like that could happen to me, or anybody else.
I guess I label this episode as my favorite because a lot of the things in the episode really struck out to me, and I learnt a lot. It’s not the most artistically defined, well written, or tragic out of the whole series, but there is something really intimate produced here that hit me hard.
Wow I totally connect to this
Charlotte is awesome! One of the best people in the show for sure. I think is great to have role models that come from works of fiction :) they have something we can aspire to be and learn from that real life people don't.
Doctor Speedweed Yeah, I feel like there are many things about me that are already akin to her but still, I am still striving to be someone like her.
Post Video Comment: Another thing that I realized that the episode taught me is about myself. Through Charlotte’s words about it isn’t about where you are but who you are, I realized, holy shit I hate myself because I make myself hate myself, not that because my environment makes me. Her words was a gateway that made me look inwards into myself, and I can never be thankful enough for that to happen. I guess that might be the reason why I like Charlotte so much, because she (not really her but the show itself) made me look inwards into me.
@@yellow_jacket3260 you seem like a very smart and sensible young person! This coming from an ex youth worker btw. Keep it up with the introspection (and maybe some therapy? That is the one thing that has helped me the most!) and you'll achieve any goal. Stay strong!
I had chills when I finished watching this episode the first time. I couldn’t believe that they did that with their lead and then I began to respect the creators even more because they weren’t trying to make us like Bojack. They were showing us how we make excuses for ourselves and let ourselves off the hook. The show forced us to identify with this truly unlikable person in many very uncomfortable ways. It’s a masterpiece and is the only show that I would say definitively that NO ONE should ever binge it.
i binged it and i think my life is ruined
@@Eli-mn5cq same
I love that the creators really drilled in that point about your actions following you considering they literally brought up these events in almost every subsequent episode. It shook me so hard after watching so many "slapstick" comedies that just forget about character growth.
I love how the events of this episode don't come up again in the series until the final season. It's representative of the way bojack lived his life up to that point and it also makes it appropriately jarring when we cut back to Charlotte and Penny's life in Good Damage. Bojack can just move on and forget what to him was a stupid mistake while Penny and Charlotte had to live with the fact that Bojack tried to become intimate with a highschooler. It's a great contrast between how the perpetrator can go about life unbothered until everything comes back to bite them after their victim has struggled in silence for years.
I think the most haunting line was “Go to bed, Penny”. It seems like he’s instructing her to go to back to her bedroom but he wasn’t, he was telling Penny to go to his bed. Horrible.
I interpreted Wandas Rose Color Glass line to be more about how we, the audience, were seeing Bojack up untill that point.
She saids this in the episode right before Escape from LA. This is because the writers know whats coming.
Like Bojack, we also were blinded by sitcom tropes that kept us from seeing the reality of his character. Up until Penny we saw Bojack as tragically flawed but still the funny freind who saids the thing we're to scared to say ourselves. We all rooted for him and shrugged off his bad behavior like other sitcom characters. In season 1 & 2 Bojack dose a lot of things that were red flags of being a dangerous person. Instead noticing this we either laughed it off, didn't take it seriously or even saw it in a sympathetic light.
Just few examples of what would be flags in real life.
1. When he ruined Todds Rock Opera and gets Todd to think it was his fault. This waa showing us that Bojack is a Gas Lighter who is a master manipulator. Like how he would manipulate penny, her mom and her freinds he left behind at the hospital.
2. He perfers dating women in their 20s inspite being in his 50s (expert for wanda who had the mind set of a 20 something year old). Showing us that he attracted girls that are eaiser to manipulate or young enough to be his daughter.
3. His on again off again relationship with PC. That was showing us how he treats women in general
4. His relationship with Herb and abandoning Todd in prison. Both showed us he has a history of betraying those closest to him. (Which he would do to Charlotte)
5. His narcissism, bitter negative attitude towards life and mean behavior towards others. Always a major red flag of a toxic freind in general.
6. Forcing a kiss on Diane then attempting to break-up her relationship with PB. (Which he latter dose to Charlotte) Showing us that he dosen't respect boundaries and isn't capable of having a healthy freindship with a woman that dosen't end in sex. (Which we see happen with penny)
7. Sleeping with Sarah Lynn, who he knew since she was 5 and pretty much helped raised. That was borderline incest and definitely grooming behavior
All the signs of trouble in the firsr 2 seasons were there but we couldn't make the full connection until he is caught with Penny. When that happens the Audience is force to see how bad Bojack really is. That is when the rose color glasses we were wearing start to come off allowing us to begin to see the reality of whats this character is really about.
This is the first time I've seen this interpretation on Wanda's line and I completely love and agree with it.
I still remember when Bojack told her to go to bed I was so relieved thinking that hopefully this horse man wouldn’t do something so stupid and disgusting until of course as cello says it was a false sense of security.
Honestly i think “lets find out” is a really underrated episode, the dialogue at the end where mr pb conronts bojack about kissing Diane and bojack saying how he doesnt know how to be happy really hit me hard and made me realize how deep this show is. Also the last scene when bojack lets all the money burn up never fails to make me laugh.
Probably my favorite episode of season 2. Escape From LA is too much. I always skip it upon rewatching.
I too was very creeped out by Bojack suggesting that he go to the dance with Penny. Even one of the kids on the dance floor says something along the lines of ‘he’s old why is he at a dance with teenagers’
Once the episode ended i thought to myself ‘he can’t just get away with that’. While other shows might fail to capture the gravity of such actions, this show does a great job. All Bojack’s actions and patterns of behavior really affect everything.
If Bojack called Charlotte and confessed to giving the kids alcohol and waited with them at the hospital, he would have still been in big trouble but... it probably wouldn’t have set off the chain of events the occurred later in his life. All this happens because Bojack is lost in his pain and doesn’t ever face his shadows.
Looking back on it, the Maddy situation chillingly reminds me of Sarah Lynn's death in some ways.
Both Maddy and Sarah Lynn were given alcohol and the heroin respectively BY Bojack. He wasn't being responsible, and while Sarah Lynn was an adult, he could have put his foot down and got rid of the heroin. With Maddy, he could have taken the flask away from her at any time, but he didn't.
The hospital is what gets to me though. He tells Pete to lie about Maddy and the alcohol, and lie about where he and Penny were that night. His plan was pretty much perfect, as Pete was too scared to confess the truth about what happened to the authorities. He lied about all of it. Just like he lied about where he was on the night of Sarah Lynn's overdose. Only this time, Sarah Lynn and Bojack were alone. He couldn't just drive Sarah Lynn to the hospital and drop her off as soon as he noticed a problem, he would most likely have been grilled by hospital staff and be punished for it. He did what he did back in New Mexico, covering his tracks and lying his way out of the problem. He didn't know where Sarah Lynn got the heroin, he wasn't with her when she took it, and he wasn't there when she started overdosing. The same lies he used while dropping Maddy off at the hospital. Luckily, Maddy was given help in time. Sarah Lynn wasn't so lucky.
Such a cruel irony is that at the end Bojack goes back to LA, which in a way is the sitcom standard of going back to normal in the end; he got the sitcom ending by ruining his own sitcom life
The glow stick balloons were my favorite metaphor in Escape from LA. Like you said they represent Bojack's stunted mental growth/need to relive his glory days, but they also represent the general effect that Bojack has on the lives of the people around him.
When Bojack first grabs the balloons from the prom we can see they were varying shades of blue, purple, and white (matching the outfit colors of Penny, Pete, and Maddy). But by the time they're released into the sky by the water tower they're a toxic neon green color from the glow-sticks inserted in them. They're very pretty, but are also an unnatural and disquieting contrast from the rest of the scenery.
That dazzling yet nuclear-hazard green is Bojack's presence in the lives of the people that love him. It can be magical at times, but eventually the glow-stick balloons will end up being terrible for the environment: just like Bojack is terrible to and for his friends.
The inserting of glow-sticks into the already blown up balloons can also represent how Bojack quite literally inserted himself into the Carson family. I think that after the mistaken kiss, upon seeing that fateful glow-stick balloon in her back yard, Charlotte realized just how messed up Bojack was. She probably would have kicked Bojack out of their lives pretty soon after, even if he hadn't taken advantage of Penny.
I know I'm super late, but Bojack taking Penny to prom was foreshadowed in the Christmas Special when there's a joke in the Horsin' Around episode that he could chaperone Olivia to her Prom to make up for going to work for some of Christmas! In the episode Bojack is watching with Todd sometime between Season 1 and Season 2. So it was kind of fresh in his mind when he's at Charlotte's house.
3:37 "The Bojack" is the most epic dance move I've ever seen, those kids don't know what they're missing!
Although its not an episode I think it would be really cool to analyze Bojack and Diane's relationship through out the series. Their meeting starts the series and them talking to each other for the last time is when the show ends so it feels like it would be worth analyzing how the relationship and the people in it changed over the course of the series, and what that means for the overall message of the show.
I remember this episode is what originally made me quit watching Bojack when it was first releasing on Netflix. This episode actually made me wanna throw up, I felt sick. I remember just thinking “there is no way in hell I can ever root for this character ever again after this” and so I quit. Eventually, I did come back and finished the show and while, yeah I found it hard to ever root for Bojack again, I found that “rooting” for him wasn’t really the point.
Now of course this episode is one of my favorites in the whole show lmao, it’s so hard to make an episode that gives your audience such a real visceral reaction like I had and I recognize it for how masterful it really is now.
When I first watched the series, this really caught me off guard, I didn't think it would go that way. Then I started to think that maybe eleventh episodes were going to be the darkest.
Wait till you watch "The Showstopper."
@@chadkennedy7855 Forgot to add that happened three years ago and I finished the series
@@shockingheaven Hey, I watched that season 5 episode multiple times, I saw what happened!
0:58 The subtitles even say “90’s sitcom theme music playing”
I looked at the title questioning what even needed to be explained about the episode. So happy I clicked on this vid because I see the episode in a whole new light now. Never realized how they turned the episode into a sitcom
5:25 While I do agree with Charlotte's observation that YOU are the tar pit, LA genuinely was a tar pit for Diane. I think there was a lot about Hollywood culture that undermined her search for self-fulfillment. Chicago and Texas were healthier for her (and not just because of Guy).
No they weren't. Diane got sick in Chicago. The knly thing sifferent about Texas is she stayed medicated after Chicago.
Diane is the "problem", in her life, not L.A- or Chauvenism- or Vapid Society.
I LOVE these 'Explained' videos. I love this show so much, and these analyses make me love it even more. Breaking down the elements of why it all works and what everything means makes the show all the more special to me.
TIME'S ARROW, TIME'S ARROW!!!
Yeah, wanting to go to a high school prom with a bunch of teenagers is EXTREMELY weird. Like, I was literally in high school 5 years ago, and even I would think it would be WAY too weird for me to even consider.
I cringed so much after watching this episode that I had to take a break from watching the rest of the show for a while.
I liked the intro sequence for this episode because it felt like Bojack was just a guest star in someone else's TV show, really nails in the point that he views all relationships he has like a sitcom.
the writers made this episode feel like if bojack was a guest star on an episode of different tv show
One thing sort of glossed over is why Bojack took her to prom in the way he did. You saw it as creepy, which definitely makes sense in the real world. It's...weird. It's strange. But in sitcoms? In older sitcoms that BOJACK would have watched tens of times or more? It was a normal occurrence for a parental figure to take their kid out to prom and enjoy the night. A lot of the time that figure even became the life of the part, which you see Bojack try to do when he starts taking over the floor until everyone boos him out. He wanted to be that guy, the life of the party and live out the sitcom in his mind by being the reason Penny had a wonderful night. But, the difference here is that he's doing it to live out the sitcom. So when it doesn't work, it's disappointing. He doesn't really have Penny in his mind much, it's all about him getting what he wants out of the night and she only enjoys it up until that point because of the facade Bojack puts up. She's obviously uneasy with what does happen, but still had a good time and wants to go at it with Bojack.
But where it solidifies in my mind that there was no need to be disturbed by him taking Penny out, is that he flat out declines her. He didn't have any intention to get together with her, he JUST wanted to live out the sitcom and give her a great prom night like what happens so often in those. But of course, after going to sit down with Charlotte and things go wrong, that's when shit goes downhill.
Lost, depressed, hurting, wanting to find any relief to the constant agonizing mental anguish, he half-heartedly denies Penny and as you know, leaves the door open for her. Maybe in his head, her coming to him like that justifies it. Maybe he took the few moments to justify it in his head. That he could apologize if caught and Charlotte would let it slide. Or that he could just get away with fucking her daughter. It shows really well just how different this world is from a sitcom. He can't just be that perfect parental figure that does things out of the goodness of his heart and the love of his family. He has to...Bojack things up.
Honestly, he got off SO fucking lucky, Charlotte went EASY on him. He deserved much worse being said or done to him. He's a real piece of shit right there in that episode, that season. He's just so relatable in so many ways. It doesn't make what he did okay, but it was understandable in a few.
He could rationalize that it was perfectly legal considering what she said. He can rationalize a lot of things.
I'm just glad at how much he changed through the show. I love Bojack. lol
I was so relieved when he rejected Penny at first but when I saw Charlotte walking towards the boat and the music tensing up I actually yelled don't do it. On pure shock factor this exceeded sarah lynns death or any other scene in the series for me because it happened before Bojack did truly bad stuff and you really don't see a lot of media showing stuff like that with minors especially not when the main character is involved.
Downer Ending-Procrastination.
Escape From L.A.-Nostalgia (in a bad way).
That's Too Much, Man!-Addiction, probably.
Time's Arrow-Dementia.
The Showstopper-Paranoia.
The View From Halfway Down-suicidal tendencies.
Another episode which whilst slightly less deep than your suggestions is stupid piece of shit as I always found it to be extremely powerful especially the final scene where Bojak lies to hollyhock to reassure her
Jacob Clements stupid piece of shit deals with depression
You should give "that's too much, man" more credit. It more deals with the tragedy/child of a child star
*death of a child star
@@mysouptoocold1656
Princess Carolyn- became a parent.
Mr. Peanutbutter- He wrote his autobiography himself.
Todd Chavez-has established relationships with parents.
Diane Nguyen- found her happiness with a person who already has children.
coincidence or design?
I can’t express how much this show fucks me up on an emotional level but that’s why I love it so much. It just feels real. The topics that are discussed in it aren’t sugarcoated but real problems and issues portrayed in a real and touching way
Rewatching this episode made me really uncomfortable with how Bojack tells Penny "I didn't like the person I was back in LA", and her sympathy for him. Separated from anything that happens afterward, it feels like a sweet moment of vulnerability, but looking forward we know that this probably was a contributor to why Penny developed a crush on him that he endorsed by the end of the episode. Whether he initially did it intentionally or not, adults using their emotions to get their way and/or form inappropriate bonds with younger people is a HUGE red flag for grooming behavior.
The "Hollywoo" sign is the underlying theme of the show: What if there was no universal reset after the sitcom's episode ends? What might be a one-off joke to roll credits on actually has lasting effects. And it clarifies the Hollywood mentality that no one admits that the sign needs to be fixed: They move on with this new, worse reality instead of stopping to fix it. "GOOD MORNING HOLLYWOO!"
even the intro "Kyle and the kids" shows how bojack is not able to respect women or acknowledge that Charlotte is an entire person who has lived a life. The title sequence is about KYLE. he came to see Penny but even in the intro he is separating her from this life because bojack can't handle it.
I was uncomfortable watching this episode...
Because it felt so real
Nonetheless, I really liked it
Omg I literally made sure to prepare myself lunch and get all comfortable before I started watching this!! I already love these in depth Bojack episode analyzation videos so much, they mean a lot to me, I always learn several new interesting things that make me see the episode in a whole new light. Hope you see this comment Johnny ❤️
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
@@Johnny2Cellos Be sure to break down "The Showstopper" soon.
Someone pointed out how Bojack doesn’t tell Penny “no” the second time. He tells her to “go to bed”. And she does, she goes to HIS bed.
one little detail i noticed is when Charlotte is yelling at him, Bojack's ears flick downward. Very nice detail.
Watching the timelapse with Bojack sitting on his boat, with the show's theme playing, was the moment I fell in love with the show and it became one of my favorites for all time.
this episode makes you question everything. morality vs legality, subversion vs diversion. it's so chilling that you can look at this episode and really think about who did what wrong in every situation. this whole situation is not just bojack or penny or charlotte's fault. it's all of them, with different varying supporting factors. you really think the show won't make a character do that and then they do it. that's when you know this show is really, really dedicated to their message. it's amazing.
This is easily my second favorite episode of the whole series. Can't wait to see you dive into this one
That too was my favorite season 2 episode as well as season 5 episode "The Showstopper." How much darker episode get?
3:30 "Bojack was basically continuing to test the limits of his new sitcom life". That's a great piece of insight that totally changed how I understand this season - thanks so much!
I think there's symbology behind playing BoJack's theme at the end of this episode. It's like the show is saying that _this_ is BoJack Horseman, someone who does terrible things and regrets it later.
When Bojack offered to take Penny to her prom, my mind went to two explanations:
1. satire of the sitcom celebrity-takes-main-character to prom episodes
2. they cast 30 somethings as teenagers on TV
I miss the show so much
Everything is worse now
This show will be in my heart forever.
This is THE channel to be on if you wanna see how deep Bojack Horseman is. Thank you for the time and effort you put into each video you make, and I love your videos with a passion. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
Thank you so much!! Have a new episode breakdown coming this week :)
@@Johnny2Cellos Can't wait!!
Thank you for continuing to make these videos about Bojack. With the series being over, I miss it more and more, but I also don't feel like giving it another rewatch until I get through some other shows I'm binging. But watching someone as articulate and informative as you, breaking down the tropes and analyzing the deeper meanings of the episodes, allows me to see and understand the show in a different way. These videos are much appreciated as you give a show I love so much, and episodes I've rewatched countless times, a breath of fresh air with your insightful commentary!
Thank you so much!
Honestly this episode was the most shocking episode of television (streaming?) I’ve ever watched throughout my life. I was about 2 years older than Penny when I watched it and that gut punch at the end destroyed me. This character I was supposed to relate to and sympathize with did this heinous act I never thought was possible. I continued watching the show constantly with this scene in the back of my mind, hell when Sarah Lynn passed originally I still didn’t consider it the worst thing he’d done since they were both extremely drugged at the time, wasn’t till the 17 minutes was revealed that it surpassed this in terms of the worst thing he’d done. Watching this show really showed how even people that are likeable can be monsters and how easily you yourself can become one. I’ll never forget the lessons it taught me.
Back in the 90s I was in a very famous tv show ooooohhhhh
I learn so much from this show. I see myself and my actions through Bojack, Mr. Peanutbutter, PC, and Diane, and because it's so real i can actually apply what I learn and be aware. I am thankful for the creators of Bojack, and for this channel, for helping me grow as a person.
I think wandas line 'when you look at someone through rose tinted glasses, the red flags just look like flags' also applies to penny
At first she was skeptical and was saying things like 'did you come all the way down here just to see my mum' and 'why would you come here for a boat show when la is on the shore' but then when bojack offers to teach her how to drive she starts opening up to him. And its very likely that over the two months he was there penny would have talked to him a lot about her life and herself. So throughout that time she also started seeing bojack through rose coloured glasses which lead her to ignore the awful things bojack did or not see them as being as bad as thet really are, like leaving maddie at the hospital and saying she looks just like her mother and even taking her to prom in the first place
It also seemed like bojack wanted to be a solution for pennys different problems (like when she needs a driving lesson and when the boy she likes wont take her to prom) so he then expects her to be the solution to his problem by sleeping with him when charlotte wont
Its really good that this show exists because it actually serves as a good way to teach people different red flags in people
Objectively, nearly sleeping with Penny is only about the third worst thing Bojack has done. But it plays out like a scene from a horror movie and was the first time I was genuinely disgusted by Bojack, wondering if I could ever sympathize with him again. The whole situation of grooming a teenager to then violate her trust is ugly and realistic. Something about this episode affects me like no other has.
I think you should do this tiny episode called
Downer Ending
The only penultimate episode he has yet to cover. The ending of that episode was one of the first clips I saw that made me imagine Michelle Plumby from Gwendy & Ghost in BoJack's shoes.
Gwendy & Ghost is available on
Tapas and WEBTOON, though the former has it in higher quality and updates more frequently. Some updates are marked Mature, so you'll need to sign up for Tapas to read them. Use my code JAVO410D when you do to receive 200 Ink, which can be used to tip creators and unlock episodes of comics and novels.
Tapas link: t.co/HMLorq7K5G?amp=1
WEBTOON link: t.co/sCV19aCtuq?amp=1
On rewatch, this episode is way worse to consume like you KNOW what’s going to happen, and everything that happens perfectly leads to an uncomfortable gut punch
Its amazing how even when This Episode happened, Seasons passed and the New Mexico characters besides Penny and Charlotte were soo quickly forgotten that when Hollyhock met Pete it wasn't obvious that he was the same Repeat Pete from the Prom until he started talking about who made him start having panic attacks. You know that Bojack messed with Charlotte's family, but he also traumatized two kids in New Mexico and we all just forgot about it.