Bookish Pet Peeves I CANNOT STAND ❌ don't make these mistakes!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2024
- Bookish pet peeves - aka: things you HATE in stories. When you read these cliches and trends, you just want to throw the book across the room. That’s what today’s video is all about! I’m sharing my biggest bookish pet peeves and why I hate these cliches so much… PLUS some helpful advice for ways you can fix these mistakes in your own writing! So if you want to avoid ticking off your readers and making them never want to read your stuff again… TAKE NOTES.
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✨ T I M E S T A M P S ✨
00:00 let’s talk about pet peeves
01:21 flat characters
02:30 flawless protagonist
03:22 not like other girls
04:09 fake tension
04:57 miscommunication
06:09 infodumping
07:15 rebel without a cause
08:15 punching bag characters
09:06 pretentious prose
09:38 inconsistent personalities
10:56 character voice
12:09 too much description
12:29 toxic relationships
13:39 “said”
14:32 repeat information
15:27 rushed romance
15:39 perfectly structured sentences
16:06 killing characters for no reason
16:55 modern slang in historical fiction
17:35 love interest freakishly older than mc
18:26 convoluted plots
19:21 tell me your bookish pet peeves!
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With a deep growl, Brenda extended to her full 15-foot stature, unhinged her jaw and readied her tail-spikes for battle. "I think you'll find I'm not like other girls!"
Why do I actually want to read a novel with this exact character in it? 😭😂
@@bippityboppity_ Did you look Brenda directly in The Eye? That gives her direct access to your brain. She could be controlling your mind (unlike other girls).
LMAOOOO
this is when the im not like other girls trope is actually effing good 💀💀💀💀💀💀
@@damnit1176 Yaaas!
I think fake tension is only OK if it works like this:
~ Set up fake expected fate as cliffhanger
~ Switch POV for a bit
~ Reveal fakeout...
~ IMMEDIATELY HAVE A WORSE FATE HAPPEN
'They swerved away from the deer in the road - into an oncomming truck'.
like an "out of the frying pan into the fire" type situation.
Thank you for the laugh 😄😄😄 i like that!
Someone remind me...The hobbit made fun of this but what did they say? It was mentioning "ran away from the ______ just to get caught be wolves" or something
Like in Final Destination 👍
I like it when the fake tension takes the character to a different state of mind, like a nightmare that makes them regret something and takes them to some action to solve the problem when they wake up or when something stress them so much they act impulsively
My biggest pet peeve is romance for the sake of romance, when a plot that does not need a romance by any means forces two characters with little to no romantic chemistry together, just for the sake of there being a romance. I'm looking at you, Marvel.
😂😂😂
Can you give me an example of a forced couple in Marvel unoverse?
@@lisev415 I guess Hulk and Black Widow?
I mean this is exactly what ruined aot's ending imo !!
@@SMR817 absolutely disagree lol. I understand a lot of people don't like the ending, but it's actually okay in my opinion. It was not forced, from the very first episode we could see how much Mikasa loved Eren. And (SPOILER) Mikasa became the one to behead him. It shows another perspective that all the time she loved him, she really didn't know who he was. It was hinted somewhere I forgot, but when Mikasa was remembering the time they first came to Marley. She noticed that's when he made up his disicion for rumbling and they all just thought he's a little confused and scared.
From the beginning AOT was a sad love story, and it ended as one..But ofcourse people won't agree or believe that, which is fine. However I personally believe Isayama did excellent work. There was no other reasonable way to end it, and I also think there's a prequel where Attack titan might be rediscovered by a young boy who'll be able to see through Eren's memories. It was hinted in the manga, however that's just fan theory.
However I truly agree Mikasa's character should've been more developed and shown her personal conflicts. But she was just a stoic strong female character who'd do anything to save her love interest.
As a person with a disability (Autism) one of my biggest pet peeves is when disabled characters live their whole life for the sake of showing the disability, like if every second in our lives had something to do with the disability. I do teach a little about autism for people who want to know, I do fight for autism rights, but I have much more in life than autism: I like to draw, I like to create stories, I have internal conflicts that are not exclusively related to traits of autism or others' prejudice, I have goals and desires that can't be summed to "autism rights, autism acceptance and being resilient". I'd enjoy a lot to see more disabled characters with desires, fears, a misbelief and a goal not related to the disability.
Disclaimer: It doesn't mean informative/activism stories are wrong or overdone, but other kinds of stories with disabled characters are underdone. (I'm not sure if underdone is supposed to be the opposite of overdone. English is not my mother tongue. Google only tells me "underdone" is used for food so correct me if there's a better word)
I also have ASD and in a story, I'd like to learn through the story that 'X' character is autistic. Instead of the first or second line of the characters' description, it's stated that the person is autistic and is treated like a primary school show and tell item. Or is portrayed as one dimensional
I stand by this comment
Also on the spectrum here. Most of my ASD characters are engineers and artists, and ASD is just something that happens.
This is perfect, I also have autism and I completely agree.
I don't have autism and I completely agree
i love disgruntled Abbie!
"I'm not like other girls"
"YES YOU ARE!" 😡
cackling
I'm generally on board with a lot of these, but the ones that are either coming from the assumption that all fiction should be easy to parse ("no fancy words!" "no complicated plots!") or that try to discourage people from writing their beloved story because "it's been done" seem like terrible advice to me. Every story has been done, and done to death. What hasn't been done is a particular writer telling a particular story.
Which brings me to my biggest writing pet peeve: the so-called "invisible prose" style. I want to hear a writer's voice, more than anything else in a story. Writers (and editors) who deliberately file off their interesting edges and try to make one book sound like any other are stealing one of the greatest joys of fiction from their readers. When I read, say, Tanith Lee, I know that it's Tanith Lee. Frank Herbert sounds like nobody else. Invisible prose authors read like a product coming off an assembly line, packaged and sanitized for the reader's protection, carefully commoditized to efficiently while away the reader's time without leaving a mark. Just gone.
Anyway, a lot of people read their books in ebook format. That makes looking up an unfamiliar word easier than ever. But even without that, a dictionary isn't a difficult thing to use. If you don't know a word, look it up!
I agree. Plus, there's the fact that some people just have more extensive vocabularies and some 'pretentious' words are super common and normal to them, especially big readers. I love the uniqueness of each book I read having a distinct writer's voice and prose style that I can recognize in each of their works.
I agree with you AND with Abbie. My take is to be deliberate about it. And consistent. Know your reader and give them what they want. Make it clear from the get go what you are offering and deliver throughout. Flowery language people, ask if it’s clear and strong. Invisible language people, ask if it holds something unique to you.
@@ysm4446 This absolutely. The bit in the video about 'flowery prose' didn't feel right to me, because that's what I love. It holds the writer's passion for their writing imo, and it brings a setting to life (landscapes and places can be a treat to read when done right, another point of contention for me and the views expressed in this video.)
That being said, English is my second language. There are many, maaany words that are apparently fancy in English but are perfectly normal in my language. A good example would be 'susurrate', which is old English and not in use anymore. It expresses something more specific than 'whisper' and is also so much prettier! Imagine my distress when I had to find a sad "whispered (adverb or paraphrase)" parade while my brain screamed at me that 'susurrer' was really the Best and Only word for it.
Ugh, HARD AGREE with this! Very saddened by the ever increasing “Hemmingwayification” of prose.
@@prosmedeus Susurrate is literally my favorite word, lol. How did you know? Granted, the first time I read it I didn't know what it meant, but that didn't annoy me. I'm always excited to look it up and learn a new word that could possibly be the descriptor of something I needed but didn't have before.
As long as the unknown words don't pop up on every single page, I'm never bothered by them. And if you are writing a book that takes place in some variation of old England, or a period piece, or even medieval fantasy or something, often words like that are part of what creates the authenticity. Maybe they don't belong in YA fiction, but that's only one niche.
One of my biggest pet peeves anymore in stories are love triangles--especially when the "third" character of the triangle is obviously just there to . . . well, make a love triangle possible, lol. A lot of times you can totally tell which of the two characters the author wants/intends for the MC to choose and the other character is just there to shoehorn in a romantic conflict of interest that wasn't necessary or needed.
Some love triangles can work, making it a poly relationship can be an interesting twist.
A funny thing is it isn't a triangle, it's a love corner. It can never be a love triangle if one person has to choose between two girls or guys. That's a love corner. A triangle is X loves Y loves Z loves X. That is a triangle. But it never appear in hetero fiction because it can't be hetero.
What if the third wheel was important for the development of the character. And she never really likes him like that that’s known by the reader for a long time she just dates him because everyone tells her to and because he’s a good friend and she doesn’t wanna hurt him. Is that still a love triangle?
The funny thing is I just have a triangle of conflict, where the MC meets someone new and falls in love, while her best friend thinks she's replacing him-- even though he has no romantic interest in her, but rather a strong platonic love. He thinks that she has no room in her heart or her life for them both, but obviously she does-- who the heck would meet their SO and suddenly stop loving their best friend? And when I say "love" I mean the close-as-family type of love.
My biggest pet peeve is love triangles that bail out with an easy break. Such as Frozen. They set up SUCH a good love triangle with two supposedly good candidates for the female protagonist (it was obvious she'd pick the humble guy), but it copped out and made the other rich dude the bad dude in a terrible plot twist. That was one love triangle I liked until they ruined it.
Thank You So Much for mentioning the glorification of toxic relationships! This trope has escalated lately and I find it really disturbing. It is almost always set up to be the woman who suffers, who has no agency, and the man whose toxic style of masculinity is glorified. Women should NOT be lead to believe that this is romantic, healthy, or appropriate for them in their real lives.
Agreed. Toxic and angst type characters have definitely been more common lately.
saw a discussion about a toxic relationship done well in Buffy: The Vampire Slayer where in the later seasons, she goes through a lot and falls into this dark, depressive state, and starts a relationship that's way out of character for her because of it. The whole thing is toxic, but the author, the viewers, and even the characters themselves are aware of it, leading to her breaking up because, she tells him, "I'm using you, and it's killing me."
Which then leads to a terrible situation with the guy becoming violent, and her responding with, "Ask me again why I could never love you!"
And SPOILERS this sets him off on a quest that one assumes is to find a way to get revenge on her so, as he says, "she can get what she deserves."
BUT
NO.
{{{ALL THE SPOILERS BELOW}}}
"What she deserves" in his mind is A BETTER MAN. He goes on this quest to become that BETTER MAN. As he explains to her later when she asks why he would do something so insanely risky, "What doesn't a man do? For _her_ ? To be _hers._ To be the kind of man who would never...."
Then, after that, they DON'T get back together. They learn to love each other WITHOUT being in a toxic relationship.
And in the end, she is finally able to look him in the eyes and say, "I love you."
Now THAT's how people should handle toxic relationships.
Not necessarily. Many times there's this man who sacrifices everything for his love and it's done so badly that it doesn't come across as love but as someone who doesn't know his boundaries and needs a few slaps on the face.
I agree I hate it so much.
I also find it very annoying if the girl is a high-maintenance jealous drama queen and the guy just keeps dancing around her as if her hissy fits were the most adorable quirks ever.
"Said."
I came across someone - I forget who, but he was a published author - who's advice was "never use anything other than said in dialogue tags." His point was about how we fall into the thesaurus trap, where we try to use various synonyms to make dialogue tags seem more interesting, to the point that it stands out.
Me, my aim is to minimize the use of dialogue tags. Like, I try to make the character's voices distinct enough from each other that an astute reader can tell who's speaking without needing to be told just by how the character talks. And then instead of dialogue tags, I try to have a specific character perform an action to help indicate tone and mood of the dialogue just before they speak, or sometimes replace the dialogue tag with the action. I don't know if I can say I've mastered this, but when it works, it works.
Yes, I think I saw that, too! Basically you should use "said" or "asked" 80 to 90 percent of the time, because readers are so used to these dialogue tags that they become "invisible". Synonyms, as you said (lol), can stand out in an unpleasant way and distract from the actual dialogue.
So, don't be afraid of "said"!
I was given the same advise!
I just leave out dialogue tags altogether if I can help it. It forces me to pick words/phrases that are more colorful and convey what the character means.
"Honestly, I've had it."
He frowned. "What do you mean?"
"Get out."
"Are you serious?"
"Yes. Get out."
It's not great, but there's no need for dialogue tags in a lot of cases.
One of my biggest pet peeves is stream of consciousness. In highschool we had to break off into groups for a book report and everyone else got a normal book and our group got some book by William Faulker, I don't even remember the name. It was so awful with the stream of consciousness that I was frustrated the whole time I read it. I've never felt so annoyed by a writing style. Another one that annoyed me to no end (another school assignment) was the turn of the screw (I think that's the name) by Henry James. He must have added about 20 commas per sentence at times, that by the time you get to the end of the sentence, you forgot what the start of the sentence was. again, I don't remember anything that happened in the book, all I remember is how it made me feel. aggravated to no end.
I've watched some Jerry Jenkins videos here on youtube and he says to stick to "said". I think it can be good advice, but he is also an author from ages ago. I would imagine it really depends on your audience.
Middle aged guys reading war novels might prefer "said", while a YA new romance reader might react better to "squealed", "flirted", "stumbled", etc. I'm shooting for an immersive middle ground.
Sometimes even I just "said" something. And other times I say something while flapping my arms around so emphatically the loose floorboards beneath my feet start to squeak. 😅 It's all about immersion and pacing. Such a fun art. 💜
Many writing classes I have been in, and multiple seminars and presentations I have seen say not to fall into the thesaurus trap. I even heard an editor panel where they agreed that if they see anything but “said”, they round file the submission. They did agree to minimize said and use action tags instead. Their point - as I have heard it - is that alternatives to said are “telling” the emotion, and that people don’t really “bark,” “gasp,” or “wheeze” words. They say them, and the alternatives distract and bump readers out of the story. And that there are better ways to convey the emotion than a creative alternative to “said.” This is the first time I have heard advice in the opposite direction.
Tbh, the description one is something I actually like. Scenery is important imo and it needs to be explored especially when writing fantasy.
There are limits, though. Like, I have tried numerous times in my life to read the Lord of the Rings novels, and every time, I get bored one or two chapters in because it is just SO excessive. May Tolkein rest in peace, he was a brilliant man, but his writing style is not for everyone.
I agree. One difference I see though is like, between Lord of the Rings and Watership Down. In Lord of the Rings, the scenery description is incredibly important to what's going on in the story and doesn't go on too long, whereas Watership downs author spent 6 to 8 pages on description alone, which considering how small the print is is rather too much. I finished the book, but tended to skip the giant swaths of scenery description to get the story, and I feel like I missed an important part of the reading experience.
@@sparxmaiden841 ...What? If you take out the smoking, drinking, eating, and Gandalf's monologues, The Lord of the Rings is one book.
@@JavaBum not really.
The last thing you want is a case if blank world syndrome.
I have a point about the "flowery" prose. My personal method is to attribute it to a character who SPEAKS like that in character. If I've learned a fancy word or two in my own life that I want to use in my writing naturally, I find a character who might speak like that and might also communicate the message that the word is connected with. I try not to ever do it narratively out of character speech
I try to do the same for the most part, but I do tend to get quite poetic with the narrative as well, mostly because I'm trying to invoke a certain feeling in the reader, which can only be accomplished by certain combinations of words/phrases that may not be so common. That, and I often talk poetically in daily life, so it's difficult to "flip the switch" and write in a simpler fashion. But the dialogue of the characters is usually left alone for the sake of feeling more natural to their personality (unless I' m writing a character with mannerisms like me, in which case they will speak in a more formal/flowery way, which also sets them apart from the other characters.)
Agreed, and also, when it comes to historical fiction, they spoke differently back in the day than we do now. Flowery language was what was used on the daily. To an extent, of course, and even within that scope, there's a limit before it becomes excessive.
@@NeonAGC You can try not going on for too long with descriptions. Flowery prose is not actually that big a problem than people make them out to be. It's when they keep going on that it becomes annoying to read. There was a fantasy book I read years back that was quite flowery (I forgot the title) and I do stop to appreciate the sentences. The issue was when it kept going on. To me, I think it's because I already devoted a bunch of brain power unraveling the sentence (and appreciating it) that I just want to continue on after reading about this forest or that weapon. But if the flowery prose still wants to describe the forest, it makes me just annoyed.
@@N0noy1989 Understandable. On that count, I think I'm mostly good. I sort of sprinkle it in there-- a poetic sentence here and there, and it's mostly used to describe the characters' feelings, because human emotion is such a complicated thing to describe. Although, I do also tend to get a bit flowery when I describe the scenery-- but that usually only lasts at most three medium sentences before it gets to the point.
Making your narration unique to each character's perspective, even in third person, is definitely a baller move. So many books I've read don't shake things up enough. Here's an example. There's two different characters taking a walk in the woods. One loves being in nature, loves flowers, the sounds of birds etc. When following this character, its a perfect time to describe the woods in that way. But, the other character is a stalker, following Character One from a distance. If I see the author describing how pretty the woods are while following Character Two, its going to be very tonally inconsistent, because we don't need to know what the woods look like in that case.
I have a question, how do you know if the relationship of your two characters should become romantic, or if you are forcing unnecessary romance into a perfectly platonic friendship?
In my experience, if two characters want to get together, we as authors are powerless to stop them 😂
I would say that key components would be if the characters bring out the best in each other, support/prioritize one another, have a deep emotional understanding of each other's internal world (struggles/fears/hopes/goals), and if you see the characters yearning for each other due to those first three factors.
I've seen stories where characters were okay as friends and one of the characters showed yearning for the other but neither of them understood one another on a deep emotional level nor did they bring out the best in each other but some fans _love_ putting those characters together romantically while I cannot bring myself to do so because it felt so forced. The romance was open-ended in that story but, even if it wasn't, I wouldn't have put those two characters together even if the writer did pair them up. To me, it's not a satisfying romance without _all_ of the elements I mentioned and so I would rather such relationships stay platonic.
An example of an author determined romantic couple that I still don't accept is the Shadow and Bone pairing (from the books, I haven't watched the show) because it is so lacking in the components I mentioned.
Just shove in a love triangle into every story. That's the way to go lol
@@xfairfaeriex I completely agree with the Shadow and Bone example. I’m reading the second book and I’m like, “wouldn’t it be interesting if she fell in love with Nikolai?” I honestly like Mal at this point, just not as a love interest.
It's up to you, really. In real life, the only thing keeping relationships from being romantic is luck itself. Not luck as in positive luck, just randomness. People like people for lots of reasons, but in the end it just comes down to 'i have no idea, i just like them so much'. I personally suggest going for platonic relationships, those are done rarely.
The use of miscommunication as a substitute for plot 🤬 my #1. I feel like this is the plot of many a tv show:
Henry and Lisa have FINALLY decided to be together. They decide their first date is going to be at the pool bc they met from lifeguarding together over the summer. They’re going to meet there, not because it makes sense, no, but because it means that just as Lisa is walking into the pool, she’ll see Henry, hovering over another girl. Lisa thinks they look romantic, like they’re practically moving in slow motion. Lisa recognizes her - it’s the new girl in town who just moved here from Los Angeles.
Lisa stares in shock. She can’t conceive one single idea why her new boyfriend’s face might be so close to someone else’s face at the pool where they met... lifeguarding. At the place where they agreed to meet and where he was fully expecting to see her any minute now.
Just moments before, however, Los Angelina - whom Lisa thinks Henry having a passionate, public snog with - was drowning in the pool, and Henry sprang to action when the lifeguard was slow to respond. In reality, he had been giving her CPR and Lisa caught the moment just as he was looking at her, glad that she was ok. He looks over his left shoulder for no reason at all, and sees Lisa standing there. Gawking. She starts to turn away.
Lisa can’t believe it. Except for she does believe it, but she says “I can’t believe this” anyway. Henry was obviously making out with that girl who was new, cool, pretty and despite growing up in a part of the country with year round Beach weather, apparently doesn’t know how to swim.
Henry gets up to chase after her, “LISA! WAIT!” The lifeguard on duty gives a loud but monotone “no running.”
Henry catches up to her as she’s getting in her car. He catches the door before it closes. “Lisa...” he pants, he’s out of breath from running, so it’s gonna take a minute to get his sentence out. And the sentence he chooses is “if you would just let me explain, that isn’t what it looked like!”
Lisa says “no, Henry. You told me that you were serious about this, about US.. and obviously, you just can’t help yourself.”
“Lisa...” he gave all his breath to the drowning girl, so he’s struggling to breathe still. “You know it’s not like that” he says instead of SAYING I WAS GIVING HER CPR
Lisa says “I thought I knew that. I don’t know what to think anymore.” She closes her door, puts her car in reverse.
Henry shouts “Lisa! Wait! Just listen to me!” Doubly wasting our time because she can’t hear him, but even if she could, he’s somehow still not denying any of the absurd things she’s saying right now
Henry spends the next week trying to woo her and somehow no one has managed to tell her that he was performing CPR until one day she meets up with her sassy friend, Eclipse, and Eclipse says “I heard Henry, like, saved somebody’s life last week. Can’t believe such a hot hero can be such hot garbage. It was that chick from Los Angeles.”
“The girl from Los Angeles? That’s who I saw him making out with at the pool...” Aw, look, some of Lisa’s brain cells are connecting.
“Wait, do you think he was just giving her CPR?” Oh, Eclipse, we had HIGHER STANDARDS FOR YOU BUT YOU WERE NO HELP.
“Well I do now!!!” Lisa exclaims and calls Henry. “Why didn’t you tell me, Henry?” 🤬🤬🤬
lmao Los Angelina😭 ALSO AGREED IT'S ALWAYS THE " why didn't u tell me?! " it's SO annoying
This activated my fight or flight
This sums up that stupid trope so well xD
I didn't even finish it up and I already knew what was about 😭😵 I hate it so much 😅😂
Finish writing that story in that exact format. I would totally buy it! 😂😂😂
My biggest pet peeve is when a character gives a lecture to another character, which actually is the reader, on what the right opinions on a topic is. I can think myself, thank you.
Sounds like a problem with the character, not the author.
Ah yes, Steven King Syndrome: allow me to lecture you on this political/cutural soap box issue and break the 4th wall while I do it.
@@hambone9416 I haven't read much by him. But I much prefer authors whom present a situation and then let the reader decide what to think, like in ASOIAF.
@@tobiasyoder It depends on context, can someone argue against the opinion stated or are there circumstances contradicting it? If not, then it is the author telling us what to think.
Whenever a character tries that in my story, the opposition will be present. And I try my best to not strawman them.
I hate when writers go overboard with the creative dialogue tags... He interpolated, she proclaimed, he declared, and on and on...
It also annoys me when psychical features are mentioned way too much. I just finished a book where the heroine's green eyes were mentioned in legit every scene.
He/She/They Verbed makes me want to slap the text.
I agree with all of these things! One of my biggest pet peeves is characters that are written to be super smug/snarky/arrogant/bitchy without any other balancing personality traits and everyone they meet automatically likes them and thinks they are amazing. On what planet?! I see this most often in the strong female character trope dominating literature nowadays, and in her arrogant, bossy male love interest with reality-defying good looks and vast amounts of power. But honestly, if you met someone like that in real life, you would probably hate them - at least until you got to know them, to understand their abrasive personality is a form of armor. You could appreciate who they are underneath all of that, but the snarky and arrogant personality would not be your favorite part of who they are as a person. So why are people writing characters that glorify these terrible personality traits and acting like they are so great? It's important to balance out those negative traits with positive ones, not just "impossibly good looks". Maybe that guy is incredibly arrogant, but he could also be genuinely funny. Maybe that girl is super snarky, but she could also constantly be doing kind things for others. And obviously revealing their good traits can be part of the journey so you don't have to come out the gate with it, but please, you have to give me something to make me root for the main characters. Don't just act like this smug and snarky chick can swoop in with all her arrogant swagger and cocky dialogue and never change, and I'm supposed to just like her because she's the main character. Don't pretend like this super hot guy can be an arrogant asshole and a possessive, domineering jerk who never changes and I'm supposed to fall in love with him because the main character inexplicably is. No thanks! You've got to give me something worth liking, even if it's just a glimpse of something good. Yes, everyone is different and is attracted to different things, but I think most people would agree that they don't enjoy being talked down to, berated, or mocked and they don't enjoy being made to feel insignificant. I don't think your characters would feel any different. So, it's good practice for any writer to imagine what it would be like to actually meet their characters. What would your first impression be? Would you want to be their friend? How would getting to know them change your perception of them? And use that to write interactions and thoughts that feel genuine, to develop your characters in a way that adds authenticity to their arc and gives them depth.
Edit: I just want to add that I am personally super drawn to the smug, arrogant guys in books, movies, shows, and games. That is my go-to. I am automatically interested. The moment he appears on screen or page, I immediately sit up straighter. But that's the thing... If that's all there is to him, I lose interest fast because all he amounts to is, well, a jerk. But I also don't want him to lose all those negative traits either for the sake of making him more likeable, because they were what drew me to him in the first place. The promise of depth, of something more. So, I lose interest even faster when his personality pulls a 180. And this goes back to Abby's point about characters with inconsistent personalities. Don't change your character's personality, just reveal more of it as you go and find a balance. If you have nothing to reveal after that first impression, it's time to go back to your character profile and fill in more blanks.
I totally share your sentiments! I have a very soft spot for smug/arrogant/domineering/dark male characters who also happen to possess ridiculously good looks- I know, how original- yet I also yearn for substance, for a believable redemptive arc without the character losing all that drew me to him in the first place, if that makes sense.
i get you, spoiled/smug/arrogant/domineering characters of any gender are my fave cause i adore their contentment, charisma and confidence that they display before discovering their burdens and when it's not some melodramatic tragedy that they're hiding behind a facade, but more simpler things like irrational phobia's, restrictive actions/routines (boxed in), insecurities of thing people envy, little different facets that show through when you bond with them are the greatest portrayals imo.
Somehow authors keep them as too much of a jerk in which i don't have time for that toxicity or they break them to humble them, knocking them down a peg which is cathartic a bit if a reader has trauma from these personalities and needs the fictional revenge ig.
Alot of the time its rare to find the realistic humanity of this character type be they the MC or love interest as there's no in between in alot of popular media, as these are to be hated or pitied and not just human beings that are only going to show one side of themselves until they trust you or the situation call for it which is how IRL relationship dynamics work. haven't rewatched in it a long while but i feel the movie Legally Blonde had a good way to handle this character type (could totally be misremembering though.)
If you're looking for MC's who are snarky and arrogant but still really deep and have lots of character development, you should seriously go read Throne of Glass by SJM. Such a great series and I love all of the character growth and personality diversity.
I love the tip of imagining meeting your characters and asking yourself whether you’d want to be their friend. I think it’s a really interesting way of going about fleshing them out more, seeing as you can develop an opinion on this character and what they’re like, almost as if they’re real - which is how you want them to feel. I think I might try that at some point! :)
@@TheBritishDragong Thank you, if you ever give it a try, I hope it helps! :)
Funny. In another podcast by a literature professor (John Thair) , he said that the word "said" is not as bad as people think it is. Because the word itself is so bland, that it merges into the prose and doesn't stand out as much as other alternatives would.
Also, "sighed", "smiled", "gurgled", "growled", are all verbs which do not necessarily show a person speaking. A sigh is a distinctive sound. You cannot sigh, while at the same time, speaking. You either sigh before or after you speak.
Also it might be confusing, if the tag changes every few sentences, even if you leave out a few tags. He said, he smiled, he cackled, he smirked. Just mention his playful demeanor once and then just go with "he said" until anything changes. It keeps your prose clean and does not necessarily make it look worse or stop the flow of your reader. As Abbie said - your brain fills out the blanks by itself.
I hope I was able to get my point across. I am not a native speaker.
The miscommunication one is THE BANE OF MY EXISTENCE. It’s so incredibly frustrating. It being the entire plot drives me nuts
Same! When an entire plot is driven from a simple, two-sentence resolution that didn't happen, I get so mad.
I've seen so many authortubers do the 'toxic relationships bad' rant that its starting to become its own tired cliche, but kudos for mentioning that you CAN write about toxic relationships in a way that's good. I know its not everyone's cup of tea, but I love negative/tragic character arcs that serve as cautionary tales, as well as positive/empowering arcs about escaping abuse. In some less severe circumstances its also great to see characters working through their toxic dynamic and becoming healthier together. There's so many great ways to write about this subject so I appreciate the nuanced explanation here (as opposed to the usual "dont write bad relationships ever or else your book is bad and your writing is bad and you are bad")
I think it's important to write toxic relationships actually. It's just not good to frame them in a positive light. Some relationships in the real world aren't healthy at all, and a book about that might finally be what it takes for a real person to realize they've been mistreated by, or are mistreating, their significant other. It might lead to real life growth and change, or it could lead to an escape for the better. It might also provide conflict for the main character and make for an interesting piece of plot.
One aspect of the "strong female character" trope in modern writing that I loathe is using a woman's capacity for violence as shorthand for empowerment.
Punching a guy because he wolf-whistled isn't empowerment, it's psychopathic insecurity. When it's deployed in a way that it's clearly understood to be a character flaw that they are too quick to resort to violence, I don't mind that, but too often, it's simply that we're expected to say "you go, girl!"
I'm like, "Yeah, you go girl. You go all the way over there, because you've got a hair trigger and I don't like being punched."
Yeah, completely agree. The modern "strong woman" is basically a guy who suffers from toxic masculinity, only withy boobs.
I'd much rather read about a woman being strong in a non-toxicly-masculine way.
The lack of nuance in this discourse (other than toxic masculinity not being just about violence) is complete dissociation of toxic masculinity as empowering. In satire it often functions as both critical condemnation and power fantasy simultaneously, rarely does any medium fail to acknowledge how satisfying it would be to "absolutely rekk" anyone who pisses you off.
John Wick is an entire movie franchise about a man who commits mass murder over a stolen car and a dead dog.
I think we can handle a tiny landing strip of fictional noseblood over some catcalls.
I wholeheartedly agree about the fakeouts particularly as the end of chapters that are invalidated in the first few sentences of the following chapter. I guess, rather, THAT is my problem. That the cliffhanger means nothing. I’m not opposed to the cliffhangers themselves, and I think most people aren’t, but to make it so anticlimactic or entirely invalid is one of the biggest insults an author can make about a readers intelligence.
Dream sequences. Unless they are introduced as dream sequences, they are in the same category. No author should ever write something and then say that none of it happened or was real.
Neutered or ineffectual villains. I’m really tired of people writing stupid villains. It is my strong conviction that all villains must be menacing, meaning that they must be someone (or something) that the protagonist(s) has/have no choice but to take seriously.
Perhaps my biggest book pet peeve is when an author mentions two different things or characters and then refers to one as “the former” or “the latter”. I HATE this. Whenever I see it, I have to stop reading mid-sentence, take a metaphorical chill pill, consciously define which word is which, and backtrack sometimes multiple sentences in order to see who or what the author is talking about. I cannot follow this manner of speech. This is also a pet peeve of people speaking too, not just writing.
My number one pet peeve is absolutely toxic romance. I'm happily married and have been for some time. It's so rare now to find satisfying romance stories, they all seem to talk about love from the perspective of infatuation or chemicals and it really grinds my gears.
You are one of my favorites on TH-cam when giving advice to writers to improve their writing. Keep up the good work.
I know right! 😂
I have a lot of her videos downloaded on my phone.
She’s genuinely one of the only ones that doesn’t come off condescending as she’s giving advice
@@steph2006 Same!
I second that!
6:49 the Stranger Things show (in Netflix) is so good at not info-dumping and actually crafting the characters well... I actually admire how well they've connected all the small plots of the big, main plot/story of the show throughout the epic 4 seasons. They committed to their characters and villain, and I really like that hard work. The actors, effects, and whole team do an amazing job in bringing that into life, too!
"Don't glorify toxic relationships"
Every smut reader ever ✨ bombastic side eyes ✨
Came here to say this! Lol like please give me all the toxic relationships lol
Not me. I prefer smut that doesn’t glorify toxic relationships. 😂
@@ConfessionsSpiritualNeophyte did you ever think about getting help? Instead of glorifying something that ruins the life of millions of people?
@@chilling_koala No not in my fiction reading that is fake sure havent. Get off your high horse, like you are SOOOO perfect.
@@blossxma mmm yes. That is a very valid point.
Smut and toxicity don't go hand in hand.
For some, red flags don't count in fictional men and for some, they like to pretend they're bulls
When the characters conversations are so well structured they sound like they've had them already
I’m so happy, my rewriting of my current novel has none of the missteps you’ve described, yay! Thanks for helping me.
I think "said" becomes invisible. I get tripped up on convoluted tags and I use them sparingly. I love "said"!
My biggest Pet Peeve (more in TV Shows/Movies) is the whole "Transformation/Makeover" Trope. Geeky girl has a major crush on the Popular Boy. Popular Boy never knew she even existed even though she sits RIGHT NEXT to him in every class! Geek Girl gets a "Makeover." Now she looks like all the Popular Girls. High End Fashion, No Glasses, No Braces, Makeup, Perfect Posture/Pose. And NOW the Popular Guy *finally* sees her. Finds out that she was that Geeky Girl and *"Confesses",* "I don't care what you look like. I like you. And if that's who you are then, I want to get to know you." Like Dude you didn't even know who she is until she started looking like the Popular Girls! This really sounds fake and I hate it!
Thank GOODNESS you finally said "deep-seated insecurity" because I was really starting to sweat about the communication difficulties my characters have! 😅
"I said it in my head so no one heard it but me" Get said WAY to many times in dork diaries
When someone points a gun at someone else for NO reason.
Then that person shrugs it off like it's not an insanely bad crime.
Agree. People shrug off danger, trauma, etc way too easily. The average fictional character remains completely cool when threatened with death, when most real-life people don't.
Also, if a fictional character gets tortured, usually there's one scene where they have a nightmare and then a conversation, and then the trauma never affects them ever again. Yeah, that's not how it works in real life. If you don't want characters to be traumatized for the rest of the series, don't have them get tortured or don't otherwise traumatize them.
(1) I have never LOLed so much in an Abbie video in my entire life - “Rant-y Abbie” is definitely my favorite Abbie 😆 (2) A WLW vid over 15 minutes?? Yes, please!! (3) The best part of this vid…
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Abbie’s subtle acknowledgment of the American “The Office”. 🙌 _*so she is aware of non BBC productions after all_
I agree with everything except the “said” part. I think “said” is the BEST word choice for dialogue. Yes, you can use another ones from time to time (like whisper or exclaimed), but “said” is the best choice. It is actually better if you can avoid it. It’s more comfortable and natural when our minds skip the “said” because it’s obvious.
People tend to use other choices wrong.
I agree! Especially if you’re writing for YA. Said is usually the better choice (in my opinion). I started reading a book recently and I shelved it because the author seemed to be allergic to the word “said” and it really made the long dialogue passages extremely fatiguing.
I’m autistic. Miscommunication is the story of my life.
* Cormac McCarthy is in many people's opinion the greatest living author right now.... and he often uses big complex words and flowery prose while going against conventional plot structure... yet, his books are extremely entertaining and immersive; just goes to show you, writers should be very careful of how much of these "rules" and tips they apply to their style/story.
One great parallel I've found between Physics and creative writing (my two passions) is bending the rules as much as you can. The rules exist for a reason, but often the best genius comes from taking said rules to their absolute limits. It's a concept I love.
There is definitely a place for flowery prose. If done correctly, it adds a lot to the reading experience. As long as it doesn't feel like the author was sitting there with a thesaurus the whole time. Flowery but not pretentious unless it is the dialogue of a pretentious character.
I knew a person that loved reading books with flowery prose, because THAT'S what he likes. It shocked me because it's rare to see male readers here in my country and it's even more mind-blowing to find a book reader who reads that flowery stuff in English no problem. I tried reading it myself and could not endure, and i'm a writer. This man read my works and would even find vivid connections in there that i didn't even put intentionally 💀
I LOVED THIS 😂 I went into this video a little scared that my novel would have sone of these but I guess I’ve binge watched your videos enough to know not to! I ended up wholeheartedly agreeing with all of them!
I’d say my biggest pet peeves are opening a book to something like :
“Arwdavish was fighting the flamgedorion in the Gombedish tournament.”
(Mostly in fantasy)
My brain immediately goes woah what is happening.
And when the end makes the entire story useless and there is no climax. I hate bad endings so much 😭
Edit: I also hate side characters that just suddenly pop up in a sequel and the author decides to focus on them more than the MC and I don’t care about them at all. It gets on my nerves sooo much
I don't mind flowery language if it's used correctly and is appropriate for the story/character. It's a good way to expand your own vocab and helps to define a historic fiction despite being written in modern times. The Lady Sherlock Series by Sherry Thomas is a great example. I love her writing!
Biggest pet peeve is the miscommunication bit. Then they spend a good chunk of time being mad, stubborn, and stupid. It's so painful!
“I get very nerdy about analyzing stories” Me too, Abbie, because of you, lol
I agree with everything - save the 'flowery, pretentious prose.
I adore H.P. Lovecraft's beautiful, lengthy descriptions. When I was younger, I needed a dictionary to help me along here and there. However, he cooks up such a stunning atmosphere in most of his stories.
Maybe there's a time and a place for it. Perhaps that's what I should say. Some authors just carry it off to perfection, others do not.
But yes, characters who never question anything, never interrupt, never protest or state that something is seriously wrong - grrrr!!!!
Unfortunately, this situation turns up in way too many films these days and I find myself sending a lot of DVDs the way of the charity shop. Unless the character does/says what I would do or what 'anyone' would do in that situation - I simply can't understand why so many stand by while their friend simply steps straight off the edge of a metaphorical cliff. It doesn't make sense.
Hi Abbie, I have been watching your videos for over a year and it has really helped me with my confidence in my writing, I can't thank you enough. Keep up the amazing work!
This video was so insightful because it really made me sit up and re-evaluate my writing. There's going to be a whole lot of Choppin-N-Changing soon with my scripts. Once again -as always-you have amazed me with your logic and sense of detail. Valuable advice we need when editing one's own scripts. Thanks once again🙏 U Da Best!!!!
What I hate is when the character with glasses (usually in movies) is considered ugly but halfway through the story they throw them away and are suddenly beautiful. What's up with that? Glasses are their so you can see properly, not to make you look ugly for half your life.
9:38 I agree--but you can write different "sides" to the same character. Ex: A character in my story is very silly goofy lol, he doesn't really care that much but when push comes to shove he can be really serious. This works as long as the serious actions and silly actions make sense fit into one personality. Sorry if I worded that awfully😂
With every one of these that I watch I gain a compelling desire to completely rewrite my book from scratch again.
Yeah, that's another lesson: in most situations you're better off just finishing the book / leaving the book finished and then starting a new one.
@@lightworker2956 I'll try to take that advice. Thanks!
Regarding modern speech in historical settings: I honestly like it if it suits the tone of the story! Avatar the Last Airbender comes to mind-the world building is clearly based off of historical/traditional Asian cultures, but the characters have very modern speech and demeanors that *should* feel distracting in that setting, but actually end up suiting it! It also helps that, while their speech is more modern, it doesn’t feel dated, even after all these years. This is also something I don’t mind in fanfiction, because it holds on to the familiarity of the characters within the new setting of an au! I otherwise agree with a lot of this video, I just wanted to share my thoughts on that particular point, and ofc to each their own!
Best world-building I've ever seen was through the eyes of a kid being introduced to the "new" world as he learned he was a wizard.
I have a lot of pet peeves in books.
- I'm not like other girls // girl-on-girl hate
- abusive characters turned love interests
- too soft of a magic system which conveniently saves the day at the climax and not 250 pages ago
- too many words I can't pronounce (in fantasy)
- not delivering on all the set-up as a way to "subvert tropes"
- too many flashbacks or monologues especially in the middle of tension-filled scenes
- all the plot happening in Act 3
- convenient miscommunication to build tension (it's lazy writing)
- not having a direction in the story (being too cause->effect from one scene to the next)
- motivations that don't make sense or are too simple or collective
- characters who are too far up their own asses
There's just so many.
I agree sometimes I can't stand the abusive bully x Mc they physically and or mentally abuse and then it's romanticized its mostly with a male bully x female Mc but still! Makes you want to grab that book/movie/anima/whatever and burn it to the ground bc it can also if the person is younger can teache them that it's normal and or okay
I hate it so much. And honestly, sometimes in books I read, the author does an alright job communicating it's abuse and not okay, but it's the readers' response that ends up being disturbing. This whole obsession with enemies to lovers, maybe. And I keep thinking regarding the authors, despite if you condemn it, why do you keep showcasing abuse and romance together to your younger audience? Obviously they're going to take things at face value. They won't see the deeper theme, and it'll only ever be harmful.
@@y-m-x agreed!
Good list. Yeah, the "huge conflict that could have been resolved with a two-minute conversation" trope has gotten a bit old.
Abbie, you’re a gift to writers and I mean that wholeheartedly 🙏🏽🙏🏽 I’ve learned so much with you, which helped me polish my first Novel. I haven’t published it yet because I’ve felt something was missing. Your videos helped me find just that and I appreciate you beyond words could portray. Thank you ❤
The toxic relationship pet peev got me!🥺💔💔💔
Thank you so much for this video, I'm a new author and I could already see my story falling into these categories
I'm in conflict with the "said" suggestion. I'm kind of in agreement, but in all my creative writing classes I always got the notion pounded into my head to use only "said" or "ask" because anything else get's flowery or overdone. But when I write, personally, I get tired of the same tag. To fix, I chose to make sure I have great voice so you can track who is talking by voice and only add tags if the voices are kind of close or it's been long enough without tags, or physical movements or other indicators of conversation occur to add depth, conflict, or flavor.
I think "said" is fine, but sometimes, it, too, can get redundant. If I have three people in a scene all talking, suddenly the he said, she said, they said is strained. There may two men for example. So, then it becomes, "said Paul", "said Michael" or "I just came back from the store, and boy are my arms tired." Michael gave a wink, to which Paul stared blankly.
Yes, preach!!😂 Basically a protagonist done wrong will ruin a story very fast haha.
The only one I slightly disagree with you on is the “said.” Said is the best dialogue tag to use bc it is virtually invisible. Like you mention, using too many other ones can get very distracting. I always try to incorporate action as dialogue tags so you can tell who is speaking while also getting a clear image of the characters (and avoid an overabundance of said.)
For example:
John stared at me. “What’s going on?”
I agree, and I tend to do that as well. I've managed to find a pretty decent balance between "action dialogue tags" and normal dialogue tags, and a good balance between "said" (and "asked", which I put on the same level of invisibility as said.) and other more descriptive tags like muttered, insisted, demanded, queried, etc.
It's funny how thesaurus fueled melodrama is suddenly a no-no when it comes to dialogue tags, but literally nothing else in writing needs to be quite so "invisible", quite the opposite in fact.
@@futurestoryteller “Invisible” dialogue tags, for me, simply serve as a way of highlighting the actual dialogue. Using a plethora of dialogue tags can sometimes be more distracting than enlightening, or make the writing sound stilted. I want my readers to focus on what the characters are saying over how specifically they are saying it. So personally I prefer a more discreet approach.
@@aliciabeem9236 I'd argue that how a person says something can actually be *more* important than what they say.
@@futurestoryteller I agree that that can be the case, and in those cases I would use the proper tag. Action/body language are also a great subtle way to convey emotions. I just don’t think my characters need to “shout” “whisper” “groan” “hiss” every single time they talk haha
I hate when a character is hundreds/thousands years old and they get outsmarted by a 20 something year old. Major face palm.
Sometimes I don’t mind fake tension if it is done well, like in the Hardy Boy books
I've been writing my book on and off for a few years now and randomly came upon your channel through one of your immersive writing sessions
I will be watching every one of your videos your advice has been really eye opening and is making me look back at a few things
Thank you for you continued advice and to anyone out there good luck with your stories!
Hey Abbie! I found your channel about a month ago and I can’t stop watching you videos, they help me so much with inspiration and writing. I also recently finished reading 100 days of sunlight, it was so amazing! I personally struggle with something similar to temporary handicap and that book gave me hope. I can’t wait to start reading The best Christmas ever! ❤️ ya!
I absolutely hate it when a book I'm enjoying, mainly scary/horror books, suddenly turns into a WILD ROMANCE DRAMA LOVE TRIANGLE type story. 😭 As much as I love the Fear Street series some of the stories just get too lost in romance. Same kind of with Red Riding Hood, I started loving it because it was really thrilling but it turned into a dramatic love triangle book. And the ending really made me mad 🙃
Anyways love your videos! Very helpful ❤
Oh my goodness, I finished a book yesterday which had so many of these pet peeves. I have to admit, I continued more as a hate read than anything else. I knew when the main character stated outright in the first chapter, "I'm not like other girls" that I was going to be in for a wild ride.
Bonus points for a toxic love interest, insta-love, flat characters, fake tension, a flawless main character (well, other character act like she's flawless, even though her actions show her to be a rude, arrogant, brat), lack of communication (multiple conversations in which information is drip fed to the character, when there is no need for secrecy, or consequences for breaking it), vocabulary mistakes, grammatical errors, and typos.
"Said" is a great dialogue tag because it's "invisible", but too much can definitely feel flat. It's good to mix it up with other, more descriptive tags, especially in emotionally charged moments. That said, though, the BEST thing you can do is write in such a way that you don't *need* a tag with every piece of dialogue. Your character voices should be distinct enough, and the writing around the quotes clear enough, that you shouldn't *need* to clarify who "said" (or spluttered or shouted or cried or whatever) each piece of a conversation.
TY for the advice on the Toxic Realtionship part, I want to make a good character go through a negative character arch due to their toxic relationship , while contrasting healthy relationships in the process. TY so much for the clarity and to helping to me keep going.
Duley noted! I saved this video in my writing playlist. As always, thank you so much, Abbie!❤
EXCELLENT video!
I'm writing for a WWI novel, and I'm reading Housman, Doyle, and Jules Verne in order to acclimatize myself to the feel of that. But my issue is that I don't always know when I'm doing some of these.
That's why I think it's important to trust a great editor, or at the very least someone who knows the writing game well enough to be published.
Abby, I love your content and I'm looking forward to watching more of your videos. I wanted to make a comment about the convoluted plot you mentioned. I've noticed that this is more common in Japanese and Chinese dramas where the producers, directors, and writers take pride in creating complex plots that may be confusing for the audience at first. However, on the second and third watches, you discover more and more, and it eventually becomes clear that it's a masterpiece. While some of these works may not be successful in the traditional sense, they are certainly famous. One example of this in the anime world is Neon Genesis Evangelion, especially the movie. When my friends and I watched it for the first time, we didn't understand it at all. However, after reading critiques and reviews online, we gradually realized that it was a masterpiece in the anime film industry.
While some of this complexity may feel forced, I do believe that there are merits to this kind of phenomenon. Some works are designed to not have the "wow" effect on the first go-through but instead become more flavorful the more you revisit them. What are your thoughts on this?
I love your editing style. It makes me smile . Haha you communicate so much without using any more words. It's fascinating to watch!
I have to say the miscommunication one is the worst for me. Really gets on my nerves. Great video :)
I think I heard Brandon Sanderson say this, that it’s annoying when a whole plot is based on something that could have been solved with a ten minute conversation.
@@janetmartinson2280 Shoot! Sometimes not even 10 min!!
"Oh you WEREN'T trying to kill me? Well, why didn't you SAY so! We can be best friends now!"
Although, honestly, i've seen humans miscommunicate on so many levels, it's... it's tragically believable, if annoying, when it happens in books. :(
Love your take on toxic relationships! Thank you!
Love you videos Abbie!! Thank you for making such great writing content
I agree on everything you said in this video. I'm a fanfic author, not anywhere close to a "real" writer, but I do get all of those pet peeves and you've summarized them very well.
I would also like to add one of mine to the pile: FORCED TRAGIC ENDING.
All my life I've been fed this theory how "sorrow is the strongest emotion" - and therefore it has crucial value when woven into the story. Yeah, when it's used as a plot starter, or a plot twist. But turning it into the very core?? And especially if the story didn't even have the makings of a tragedy throughout! But hey, here's a tragic ending, it's so shocking, wow, I got you reader, cry your heart out.
No. I'm not gonna cry, because I'm not sad. I'm angry. I just wasted my time and energy.
These forced tragic endings convey only one message: no matter how much you try to make something good, it will and it can be ruined and there's nothing you can do about it. I get that these things really do happen in life, but hardly ANY of those tragic endings in stories are actually showing you how to properly deal with said tragedy and procure something meaningful. So what are we as readers left with? What was the point?
My strong belief and conviction is that the best stories actually teach us something useful and good, they uplift us and give inspiration. Tragic stories SHOULD teach us that even if something horrible happens, you can still go on and recover. But they usually don't.
And this is why I avoid stories with tragic endings. I just know I'll end up thinking "why did I torture my brain with this depressing sh*t".
Just popping in to say fanfic is real writing. I tried to write a spinoff of my friends characters, and it was WAY harder to get the voice and world correctly than it was to create and stick to my own stuff.
Some may not think fanfic is real writing, but it is.
I shall now skip off to adjust my tragic ending to have cause and recovery for a brighter outlook for the living character.
@@melixx 🥰
Abbie, Abbie, Abbie... You are aware there is such a thing as flat character arcs? Mary Poppins, Paddington Bear, Sherlock Holmes, James Bond, all of them are what is called flat characters, where the growth in the story isn't about them, but the characters around them. Some of the best stories ever have flat character arcs.
I prefer the term, "Static Character" and a huge percentage of readers/writers are terrified of them. Dynamic characters undergo a change over the course of their journey, while static characters are out to change the world. Personal opinion here, but I think the reason most writers dislike them, is because they simply can't write them.
About the first one. I am in the process of creating a psychological thriller with notes of dark fantasy and a dystopian undertone that doesn’t have a set ‘main character’. But the premise is that at the beginning is that they each have a set opinion and personality, are corrupted and brainwashed by the ‘good guys’, and gradually come to terms with how f’ed up they’ve become. They then begin to doubt everything, becoming rebellious until they snap back to reality. Obviously, each character goes through this in their own way.
First off, love your content. New writer, writing a book with my friend, and your videos have been a lot of help. Also, one of my pet peeves is when there is so much back story in a book. I don't mind if they need to reference something in the past, but when a good chunk of the book is past story it drives me nuts and I'll stop reading lol.
That age difference thing makes me angry like anything! Btw Abbie, you look different in this video. I hope you're doing great! ❤
I'm working on a zombie apocalypse book, and your advice are amazing!❤. They helped me and there helping me alot, I'm still thinking of ideas😅. And I know it's gonna take a while, so thank you so much Abbie❤!!.
I'm learning so much with each video of yours that I watch. Thank you for taking time to make these! ❤
As an editor for a magazine, the advice on replacing said is a big NO! We tend to reject stories out of hand when the author uses a thesaurus to replace said. The correct answer is use said, or write the dialogue in a way that doesn't require a tag.
Abbie… ARE YOU A MIND READER??!! We would get along so well (It would be so fun to watch a movie with you)😂
I thought about this and yes, I did have some characters killed off abruptly and a rushed romance in the book I finished last year. Will do better in the book I'm currently writing.
I'm so with you at 5. Just say "I think we're having a misunderstanding" and talk it out.
6: One of the most common problems. Just started an online novel where the first 6 online chapters were just exposition and a little bit of defining characters, most of whom disappeared right after. Writers, we know you want to tell us all about this wonderful world you've imagined. Just please, not all of it at the same time.
7: Reminds me of someone who asked me to read and give suggestions on what they were writing. It was partly a classic fantasy story with MC+party fighting monsters. One thing that stood out to me was that it was always the MC who identified what monster they were fighting, who suggested the tactics, who spotted the ambush and, of course, who saved the day. The party was there to, basically, stall the fight and to be saved. Granted, this person didn't do 6, the exposition thing. Definitely the flawless protagonist though, as the exposition ws done through the MC who knew Fing everything, had every solution, etc.
8: Or! Add a character who deliberately talks with complicated words if you want to add that to your story
I think I would add 'too many main characters'
Wheel of Time, I'm looking at you here
I was actually more interested in Matt's and Perrin's stories than that of the official MC, let alone the various female characters, many of whom annoyed me to a greater or lesser degree. Yet they all had to get their chapters, the plot was barely moving
This was a great video! Love to hear you ranting about pet peeves. You’re energy is awesome!
I recently edited a novel based on the concealment of a huge family secret; however, this secret was endlessly discussed in the kitchen of the small cottage where the teenage protagonist lived. Thus, she kept overhearing snippets of information and came to conclusions which were then denied by the adults. This happened time and time again until I wanted to scream at the adults 'why can't you have these conversations in a coffee shop?' I'm afraid it all became very unbelievable and tedious.
I think these covered almost all of my pet peeves. One I have is when people add mystical elements and then never really cover why or how they're there, or what reason they have for existing that actually matters to the plot. I read a lot of fantasy, and the info dumps are just the worst--but following that, it's the poor world-building that kills a book for me.
As for suggestions, if you like on-going serialized stuff, I have a book on tapas that just started. I could use some readers and critical feedback if anyone is interested. It's a Urban Fantasy BL (BoysLove) Drama called "Witching Hour." I publish under the same name as here. I've been writing off and on since about 1997 (started with terrible manga, lol), but I've never shared anything that was really ready for readers until now.
Abbie you are a star ✨
Your videos have been a huge help to me through and through. Love you ❤
I hate it when you get paper cut from a book. I also hate it when people cut off the top corner of the book's cover.
Hi Abbie! I'm from Portugal and I love your channel.
I know you made some videos about character backstory, but could you make a video about how to write a non-tragic backstory that is still interesting? And showing us story examples when the main character doesn't have a traumatic/tragic past, but their backstory still drives their desires, fears and misbeliefs (even if it's not a tragic past).
I hope that makes sense.
If you don't mind my advice, here's a character I made up just now to give you an example of what I'm talking about:
Character: Eric
Desire: to protect his people from their enemies and live in a world where they're safe.
Fear: By trusting people outside of his people, something bad will happen, and their world would be destroyed.
Misbelief: Don't trust anyone outside of your people.
Backstory: When Eric was a soldier, he was assigned a job to keep someone safe. There was another soldier who was different than him, but he advocated for him to stat on the force. Turns out, the new guy was a traitor from their enemies and was about to kill the person he was supposed to protect, but Eric was able to stop him. When the guy was prosecuted and killed for spying, this caused Eric to not trust anyone who wasn't one of them. He doesn't walk around sad that he put his trust in the new guy, but he actually has a no-nonsense attitude in anyone who is different to stay away from his people.
Did this help you?
@@jacindaellison3363 Thank you so much for your example. I loved that character only by reading that description.😊
But actually I was thinking more about a backstory that could seem ordinary for most people, but turn it into something that matters specifically to a character and drives their desire, fear and misbelief, even in a subtle way. Now, I can't remember of an example of this done well, but I'm sure there's story examples out there.
@Ana Conceição you're welcome! Well, my next attempt would be Joy from Inside Out.
Desire: to help Riley navigate through her new life in her new town and to make sure she's happy.
Fear: Riley will not be able to get through the move
Misbelief: The only way to handle the situation is for Riley to be happy about the move. Yeah, Disgust, Fear, and Anger have their important things, too. But, being happy is the better option.
Backstory: Joy was the first emotion to appear when Riley was born, and she pressed the emotion button and Riley laughed happily, which made Joy happy. But then Sadness appeared and pressed the button, emitting sadness. Seeing Riley unhappy made Joy upset, and throughout the backstory, she doesn't see this emotion as helpful, but as like something that's just there.
It is a fantasy but I do believe it relates to what we all feel sometimes, that sadness is something we tend to push away to the corner instead of dealing with it like we're supposed to.
@@jacindaellison3363 Yeah, that's what I was talking about, it's a good example. Thank you.
@@anaconceicao31 you're welcome!
This goes along with "said". I only really see it done in fanfiction but some writers will use a character's name a few times, and ALL the other times refer to them by any relevant description they can think of. "The elder brother", " the bespectacled woman" "the mermaid" etc. There's absolutely a time and place for that, like when referring to a character that is unknown to the POV character. Just not when referring to the main character that we've spent the last 50 pages (or entirety of the movie(s)/ TV show, in the case of fanfics) getting to know. People don't think about or refer to people they're familiar with that way so it's super distracting and comes across as an amateur trying to hard.
I want to thank you for these videos. I'm an aspiring writer, I get bored after a few days and start doing something else. I suppose I have a short attention span. Anyway, when I want to get in the "mood to write" I watch one of your videos. I immediately start thinking on what I could do to improve one of my stories.
To be fair, there are other youtubers I watch but you have a special flair that inspires me. Thanks again Abbie.
For science fiction novels, describing the location of an alien world can be an essential part of the story.
Thank you. I also HATE "said" too much. Yet, so many people seem to say, "stick with said."
I do like it when I read a book and I learn a new word.
Regarding the "perfect sentences," I started offering editing and beta reading for other authors because of how one day I came across a discussion about editors "fixing" character sentences too much.
I am so gratified that so many of your peeves match with my peeves and intruiged about the ones that do not match.
My number one peeve though is a book being too simple. If the language does not treat me as an adult I won't finish it.
I'm curious, could you expand on what you mean by "a book being too simple"?
@@fvf9043 I like a book with twists and turns that keeps me guessing. I also like reading multiple plots being worked with and will stick with a series if a thread gets dropped to see if it get resolved in a later book or side story. If it is too straightforward for me then I move on, unless I'm reading it with the intention of sharing/reading with children or will be illustrating for it. If it is something that otherwise seems interesting I might suggest it to family members that prefer less complex books than I do. For an example, I have an elderly aunt who was extremely disserviced by her school during a time special needs kids were basically not taught anything. She sometimes gets a little left behind when a family discussion gets moving fast. So, I am searching for books at her level or slightly above as she very much wants to improve her reading ability and help her get up to speed. She felt very out of place when going to live with my mother because she came out of a situation where she was being denied knowledge into a family of nerdy bookworms.
There are some series I remember reading when younger that I've suggested that I enjoyed (Babysitter's club, Nancy Drew, Hardyboys), but on later reading had noted was structured very differently from the mysteries I've been picking up lately. We stumbled on a book from the Magic Treehouse series on a recent trip, which she fell in love with. I wouldn't normally read it now, but for her... sure. I'll find more, read them, give them to her, and then there is a book she can tell us about and we can discuss. Then she won't feel as bad and some of the damage from her youth will hopefully get healed in the process. She was so sad when she had a hard time reading Farenheit 451, because she wanted to know what my daughter and I liked about it so much. I thought it was fairly simple, she didn't.
I was one of those kids reading books intended more for highschoolers and adults along with my father's old college books when I was still in the 4th and 5th grades, so that's likely been part of my own issue with finding books to match my preferences. I also prefer more complex sentence structure in my reading. If there are a mix of short sentences along with longer sentences then I do not bore as easily as if all of the sentences are short with tiny words.
@@Amehana Oh, I see! I can relate quite a bit. All the best to your aunt, thankyou for explaining, and have a lovely day :)
btw you probaby already know you are beautiful like a fashion model, perfect eyes great hair etc.
whoever does your makeup also did a great job (hair doesn't cut itself lol)
Hi Abbie! Thank you for this, I love it! The only point I disagree with is the "acting out of character" one. People rarely go in life being consistent at all times. We all have a friend or family member who snapped and went "out of character" at some point in life. Pressure, seasons, hormones, fear, awkward situations, danger, grief... they can affect us in many ways and make us do things or make decisions that we wouldn't have made based on our personality. I think reducing someone to an enneagram or an MTBI is missing a lot on the vastness of human behavior. I would agree that a character acting out of character for no reason is annoying though!
In the show Black Sails the character of Flint specifically takes action to kill fellow Pirate Charles Vane. He is preparing to attack when he learns that the nearby Governor has captured Vane and plans to execute him. He then rallies together the pirates he was going to attack him with and makes a declaration to join forces with Vane's men and _save his life._ This, for me, is one of the most brilliant scenes I've watched in anything.
At this point we have already been given explicit narrative justification for Flint to hate the British government above all enemies, and Vane is by default a comrade as a fellow pirate. His execution is meant as a message to them all, so Flint decides to waste no time responding in kind to that message. We understand all of the reasons Flint does a complete 180 in a single scene. That's what you're missing here, if the audience fully understands it's NOT out of character
Still holding out for a book to pull a swift one
"I'm not like other girls" she said, he threw up his hands in exasperation "why does every girl say that"
XD
I can see why for the other ones but if you're writing a fantasy novel in general you're going to see much older beings.
So I don't agree with the "has a character that's 100 years older than MC" bit. There's lots of good books that do this well that isn't the meme book known as "Twilight". And if that trope is done well than it's more like a fine wine than the cottage cheese you used as an example.
The best ones I can think of that are good representations of this are books like The Dark Angel, which is more romance based. But some of my favorites aren't romanced based like IT, or Breathless, or even Morpheus Road. Two of which are well done old as hell antagonists. But the one Breathless is more of an old alien species that's benevolent.
So yeah this can be a horrible trope. But there is also a lot of good ones.
I will also add there are ways to make a really old ass character relatable. By bridging that gap with the reader. And by doing so by introducing real world issues. Like loss, pain- be that physical or emotional, real life struggles with money or relationship (either romantic or interaction only), heck you can even add funny moments where maybe they don't understand certain things and the protag or a side character has a moment of interaction to help said old ass character.
There's so much that can be done and that's the beauty of it.
That's why I think this trope shouldn't be written off.
I agree that it can be a good trope. It's just unfortunate that very few authors are able to genuinely make you believe that a character is actually a 100+ years old.
Definitely can relate to almost all your pet peeves but my biggest pet peeve is flowery language and too much description.
It's always a fine line, and you have to exercise good judgement when it comes to determining exactly how much description to provide. Generally speaking, it's better to be somewhere between Alistair MacLean and the 'White Room Syndrome'.
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I say, Don't be afraid to use the word "said". It's weird when people never use it. Use "said" when they are talking in a normal voice. But break it up with other words to mix it up, especially to convey emotion (whisper, mutter, growl, hiss, mumble, shout, etc, etc)
In general, said is the preferred dialogue tag, because the dialogue itself should do enough to convey the emotion. Obviously I think (unlike some people) that it's okay to use other words sometimes, even necessary. But I do think it's a good guideline to follow when writing to try to stick to said. It actually drives me batty when I see overuse of descriptive dialogue tags. It generally means that either the dialogue was lacking, or the author didn't trust their dialogue enough.
#AskAbbie
Hey Abbie! I love your content and because of you have become a good writer. But I want to write a book where the character just tells his tragedies. You might now this idea as I have borrowed it from the book 'No Longer Human'
So there is character development but I don't know how to insert so many tradegies in the book. So can you make a video here you explain how to tell so many tradegies without making the reader bored?
I think she should start reviewing books. Those videos would be amazing 😅
I hope Abbie pins this comment.
Abbie, can you please?
(If you have notifications only when there's a question mark, this will help!)😅
Some of these are actually the reason I finally sat down and wrote a book of my own. I spoofed a few of them (the male love interest being centuries old, for example), and did my best to avoid all the rest. I got so tired of violations of these rules, and found myself going, "This sucks! I could write better than this!" I finally realized I needed to either stop saying that, or actually try to write something better. A funny thing: I wrote one of the characters with horrible grammar, poor word choices, etc., on purpose (unique voice), and the editor laboriously rewrote all of that character's dialog to "fix" it. The character was meant to leave people confused, so that the other characters and the reader both go "What?" at the same time. Took a lot of work to re-break all that back to how it was meant to be. Of course, breaking some of the rules you listed can be done well too - but that takes even more work.
This is so very helpful! Thank you for this video! :)
Hmmm....most of these are completely subjective. These tropes or "cliches," with the exception of a few, can be done well. Audiences may be tired of seeing them, but I would never tell authors to stop writing them or that they are making a mistake in trying to make them work. Not saying Abbie or anyone else is saying that, but I find more often than not people who complain about these tropes are either a) overlooking some of the nuances of said trope and its application in storytelling, or b) not consuming widely enough to grasp the full spectrum of these tropes. There are plenty of stories with said tropes that people still like because, and I cannot believe I have to say this, not everything is for you. Furthermore, not every story or character must be relatable for it to be "good." They only need to be compelling in some way. Also, there's this prevailing western idea in our culture that stories and characters must fit within certain conventions (hero's journey, three act structure, etc), and that anything outside of that is "bad." Again, not saying Abbie or anyone else is doing this, but maybe we should examine stories and meet them where they are rather than project our own idea of what makes a good plot, character, etc onto these stories, and then criticize them when they don't fit within our mold. You are completely entitled to discontinue a story and/or criticize when you don't like it, just make sure you know what you're criticizing and why.
And I know this is more of a rant/opinion video instead of Abbie's usual writing advice, and I only say this because it's a common trend across this platform where I see people not liking something, coming up with post talk justifications and treating their opinions as rules-talk about cliche, there's one right there.
Love you Abbie and love your videos! They've been very helpful in my writing journey.
Agree. I get that authors have typically read a ton, and they really don't want to be accused of writing derivative work, but in reality most tropes are tropes because audiences love them. Authors probably should have some part of their novel be novel, but also use some amount of cliches / tropes in their writing.
I love Abbie's videos, but THIS. Some things, like glorifying toxic relationships I would say we should call a mistake, because toxic relationships are objectively bad. But pretty much everything else comes down to personal taste. Like, sure, we can hate on the '400 years older than the mc love interest' idea, but thousands of people love it, and plenty have no strong opinion either way. And you just need to read the comments under this type of video. Everyone has different pet peeves. Nearly everyone seems to think that those pet peeves make a book bad, instead of realizing they're just not they're type.
You can't tailor your book to everyone in the world. Even if you don't use any of these tropes listed in the video, you're going to do at least five things that are someone else's pet peeves. I read a book review for a series by Leigh Bardugo, and the writer's biggest problem with the books was that the characters were too mature, lol. Like, if your characters aren't annoying because they're too immature, someone is annoyed that they are mature.