Just sold a Stihl Farm Boss because it had issues straight from the dealership. Returned it 3 times before using it and they wanted to charge me a shop charge so once it was sold I went with Echo CS590 Timberwolf. Starts good and cuts good, no complaints but tuning mine with a muffler mod soon and looking forward to seeing the difference
@@timberandtools I liked Stihl until the bad experience with the dealership. Stihl representatives talked with me and replied to all my emails trying to resolve the issue but when they supported the technician at dealership that wasn't capable of simply tuning my carb to get it to run correctly I gave up on Stihl. I returned it 3x's and 4th time they wanted to charge me to fix something they couldn't fix to begin with so after hearing about all the good comments about Echo i decided to go with them but so far I haven't had to deal with a warranty issue and it's been problem Free.
@@Pwnappler Iowa Performance Saws has it now, modded the muffler yesterday and taking out the plastic limiters today and tuning it so should get it back by Saturday or Monday at latest. Can't wait even though ups damaged my chain break handle during delivery but they're only $25 for a new one but hated it cause it's a brand new saw
I love my 590 but it’s just stock I just put two tanks through her today on a bunch of cottonwood about 32” round. I did buy a 24” Tsumura and slapped it with a skip tooth full chisel and she absolutely ate. I also have a MS462CM that I haven’t fired up yet.
Sweet that’s actually the set up he has in his timber wolf now Tsnumara 24”. Your really going to like the 462! I have other videos up of mine and tbh it’s my favorite saw.
@@timberandtools which one the 462 or the 590? i really want to do the muffler od on the 590 but i dont know how to tune a carb unless its like my nitro cars-thats the only thing holding me back from the muffler mod. my 462 i put on a sugihara 28" bar and the stihl pro full chisel full skip-so shes ready for the shelf, lol look pretty
@@ChrisNieves 462 is my favorite!! I don’t own a 590. This is my groundsmans chainsaw. Tuning the carb is something that is learned. A lot of good videos on YT. Best thing you can do is learn how the low and high jet affect the tuning. Then you’ll be able to tune by ear easier. Most of the time I get them close by ear. Then tune them in the cut.
Fun stuff guys. It's hard to do even tests... All things are never equal unless your gonna go through great pain to try to make them that equal. And they still won't be...
There great saws! I personally only run 2511 top handle echos. All others I use for production work are Stihl. However my ground guy bought this on my recommendation and we are both impressed with it!!
@@80srockerable stock chain gets thrown in garbage lol. I use Stihl 63ps chain or on some of them I have 1/4 conversion! I have a whole video about this. It’s callled echo 2511 why people think it’s worthless
@@timberandtools thank you! I will check your video out. I can't believe they sell this with such a crappy cutting chain. It doesn't have enough power for its aggressiveness.
I have a 620pw, but my dad got a great deal on a returned 590 through work. Anecdotally the power difference is miniscule after tuning with the 590 being more forgiving down low. Only negative is the oiler seemed lacking (imo) for the 20" bar on even highest setting, whether that's spec different from the 620p or just the machine idk....its more than adequate for the 16" pro bar he has on it now and absolutely rips.
This is true, the factory tune is awfully rich. I just open up the muffler a bit on most saws I mod the carb on and way I have found on some it make a huge difference (2511) for instance needs a muff mod or else you don’t get a lot of usable power from just modding carb. I’m sure a retune on the 590 wood have helped a lot by itself
I’ve owned a 362. Great saw, but it’s hardly better than the 590 at full bar capacity. I actually like the Echos better. A bit slower, but a less fussy saw in my experience.
OK, I read through the comments and now know 5/8" is better than 1/2" and you retuned the carb off camera. The only way I know how is by ear. I do the LOW first, then the HIGH and back to the LOW if needed. All on a hot engine. Does it get more complicated? Can you explain tuning in the cut? Thanks.
Main reason for this video was the modifications. I do tune by ear. I also tune a bit leaner than some because I always have a sharp chain etc. I think tuning is best done by the specific operator. Best way to explain how I tune is to fatten up the L so throttle response is crisp then adjust the H not to scream but to get it to get a decent rpm and tuning in the cut is variable based on operator really. If you not always sharp and you tune lean saw is not gonna last to long or if you over rev etc…
@@timberandtools Hey, thanks. I understand what you mean about in the cut. Under load you might realize that it can run a bit leaner, gain power and never blow up as long as you don't lift and overrev constantly. I'm sure the engine will wear faster than the factory (or ear) settings, but it's worth it. As always, a sharp chain is the safest chain you can use.
@@peterp.6249 definitely the safest!!! I have several saws I’ve run daily for years and they’re still run great. I use Stihl ultra which probably doesn’t matter much but 42.5 to 1 ratio helps with the lean tunes… my 440 I got used and had I about 4 years now. 3 of those years was being run daily. P and c still look new just had the muff of to check a few months back. So far so good lol 😂
The stihl 311 is a much better match up. I have both , both modded. The 590 cuts fantastic especially in hard woods, has the torque needed to muscle through without bogging down to much.. the 311 runs fantastic and the mods helped it throttle response drastically , really opened the saw up. But with everything being said I like the design of the 590 better especially with the price difference and weight
I’ve always wondered about the echo saws but my closest saw shop carries Stihl so that’s what I bought. I guess if they carried Echo I wouldn’t be wondering 😅. I take it you do all the service yourself? How does echo handle warranty work?
Yes I do all the work myself however in the last four years I have been running Echo products I haven’t needed to do any actual repairs and I’m not kidding. That pretty much goes the same for the steel products that I have bought as well I do really maintenance and take care of my things well so they usually last quite a while. I highly recommend the more professional series of Saw that echo makes to anyone. I run echo 2511 tophandle chainsaws all day every day and just keep putting gas and bar oil in them. This echo Timberwolf was my first experience with a bigger echo saw and I am a fan. We have since put a 24 inch bar on it and my worker really enjoys the saw I even grab it and run it from time to time.
That muffler mod will get you a ticket if you cut wood on State or Federal land where spark arrester screens are required. It's better to drill the hole next to the pipe under the deflector plate. Then the exhaust exits through the spark arrester screen, so it's legal.
I guess the title is misleading, I don’t give a good explanation on the tune! Sorry about that. These saws are quite easy to tune . I returned after muffler mod. That why it is in the title
interesting way to mod....Ive seen some other mufflers with a twin hole up front..so I guess so. I just did a little carb adj on mine, its a ANIMAL. $325....4 years ago. a little heavy, but it cuts crazy good.
@@timberandtools is it Really loud now? my neighbors already feel the Bass when I run that saw..LOL I did a light muffler Mod on my cs370, its not much louder, and it picked up nice. That saw is light and has seen alot of use/abuse...runs like a champ.
@@timberandtools do you have an a-proximate on of the size of the hole you put in the muffler? The 620p is a really nice saw as it is. I’ve got a 550xp M2 and a 572xp. I really like the 620. Reminds me of a Dolmar 6400. I may just get it ported too. We will see.
Ive cut wood for over 30 years heating at least two homes and a waterstove and seriously dont know why Id worry about the speed differences as there both fast enough to get the job done.
@@timberandtools I understand if it were my job I'd probably do same. You guys should do a vid on cutting trees that have stress on them and safest way to work them up. They can scare me sometimes. I got one now actually
Definitely, In our area we don’t have any issues with needing a spark arrestor on the saws matter-of-factly rarely ever have seen or heard of a wildfire in my area that wasn’t started by a campfire or a big burn that got out of control. I am aware in some areas how dangerous it could be to run without the arrester
I just took the air filter off my brand new CS590 for the first time. Same thing as yours no o ring and dust starting to make its way in. I will be putting one on now. Thanks!
How smart can the two cut on the same end be? Just a broken chain on a chainsaw, what are the consequences? An injury leads to an additional burden on the healthcare system...
Suprised you didn’t mention the fact we’re not wear chaps. 😂 btw myself or crew has not had an injury or broken a chain while doing this😌 we also have workman’s compensation and health insurance so don’t worry about a freeloading work injury affecting the healthcare system….
@@timberandtools Accident? The question is 'when?' and not 'if?' . And by publishing this video, you will realize that you indicate that this is correct, an example to follow... The part that can be seen is a joke, the part that will not be seen (the accident) is the responsibility of the paramedics. Obviously, I came across a superior intelligence that thinks it will collect some insurance in the case of a fatal accident - the insurance is collected by the relatives for the funeral. And I'm not worried that you're promoting dangerous things, but conditionally. I'm surprised that if you're employed with insurance, you don't know that you never point a chainsaw in motion at another person nearby - a chainsaw in motion is like a weapon with a safe taken. But you probably have an equally intelligent boss...
@@PopaAlexandru. I am the boss and as far as the chainsaw goes some people can’t handle it. You would have died 50 years ago there was safety regards for nothing and those men went to work and came home safe just the same as today, we’re not all cupcakes some of us are real men
@@timberandtools Real men can stop the chain with their chest! And what if there was an accident? It can't happen to me! However, it happens to some people...
Just sold a Stihl Farm Boss because it had issues straight from the dealership. Returned it 3 times before using it and they wanted to charge me a shop charge so once it was sold I went with Echo CS590 Timberwolf. Starts good and cuts good, no complaints but tuning mine with a muffler mod soon and looking forward to seeing the difference
Yeah big difference with the muff mod, wakes it up. Sorry to hear the bad experience with Stihl I really like there stuff as well
@@timberandtools
I liked Stihl until the bad experience with the dealership. Stihl representatives talked with me and replied to all my emails trying to resolve the issue but when they supported the technician at dealership that wasn't capable of simply tuning my carb to get it to run correctly I gave up on Stihl. I returned it 3x's and 4th time they wanted to charge me to fix something they couldn't fix to begin with so after hearing about all the good comments about Echo i decided to go with them but so far I haven't had to deal with a warranty issue and it's been problem Free.
@@dentondunn4346 that’s an awful experience!!! Echo has been great to me so far
You won’t regret doing the muffler mod and retuning , I was more than happy with the difference
@@Pwnappler
Iowa Performance Saws has it now, modded the muffler yesterday and taking out the plastic limiters today and tuning it so should get it back by Saturday or Monday at latest. Can't wait even though ups damaged my chain break handle during delivery but they're only $25 for a new one but hated it cause it's a brand new saw
This is the first time I’ve seen the muffler mod this way. The way I saw it totally bypasses the baffle.
@@voodoo7008 this was the “easy“ merging for basically anyone to be able to do
I love my 590 but it’s just stock I just put two tanks through her today on a bunch of cottonwood about 32” round. I did buy a 24” Tsumura and slapped it with a skip tooth full chisel and she absolutely ate.
I also have a MS462CM that I haven’t fired up yet.
Sweet that’s actually the set up he has in his timber wolf now Tsnumara 24”. Your really going to like the 462! I have other videos up of mine and tbh it’s my favorite saw.
@@timberandtools which one the 462 or the 590? i really want to do the muffler od on the 590 but i dont know how to tune a carb unless its like my nitro cars-thats the only thing holding me back from the muffler mod.
my 462 i put on a sugihara 28" bar and the stihl pro full chisel full skip-so shes ready for the shelf, lol look pretty
@@ChrisNieves 462 is my favorite!! I don’t own a 590. This is my groundsmans chainsaw. Tuning the carb is something that is learned. A lot of good videos on YT. Best thing you can do is learn how the low and high jet affect the tuning. Then you’ll be able to tune by ear easier. Most of the time I get them close by ear. Then tune them in the cut.
I love my cs590.also have the 310 and 352.great saws for the money
Yes true work horses!! Echo is hard to beat at the price point
Fun stuff guys. It's hard to do even tests... All things are never equal unless your gonna go through great pain to try to make them that equal. And they still won't be...
Absolutely!!
Echo has converted more Still & Husky owners than Jim Jones.
There great saws! I personally only run 2511 top handle echos. All others I use for production work are Stihl. However my ground guy bought this on my recommendation and we are both impressed with it!!
@@timberandtools I have a 2511T. I find it doesn't cut that clean or chain sometimes snags. Do you use stock chain?
@@80srockerable stock chain gets thrown in garbage lol. I use Stihl 63ps chain or on some of them I have 1/4 conversion! I have a whole video about this. It’s callled echo 2511 why people think it’s worthless
@@timberandtools thank you! I will check your video out. I can't believe they sell this with such a crappy cutting chain. It doesn't have enough power for its aggressiveness.
@@80srockerable yeah I think it hurts the saw for people who don’t know why it’s happening
I have a 620pw, but my dad got a great deal on a returned 590 through work. Anecdotally the power difference is miniscule after tuning with the 590 being more forgiving down low. Only negative is the oiler seemed lacking (imo) for the 20" bar on even highest setting, whether that's spec different from the 620p or just the machine idk....its more than adequate for the 16" pro bar he has on it now and absolutely rips.
Not sure if the oiler is different or not but they do say 620 can handle a 27” from echo
Just a carb retune on the 590 makes a noticeable difference. They’re rich from the factory. Mine would out cut my 261c from day 1 after it was tuned.
This is true, the factory tune is awfully rich. I just open up the muffler a bit on most saws I mod the carb on and way I have found on some it make a huge difference (2511) for instance needs a muff mod or else you don’t get a lot of usable power from just modding carb. I’m sure a retune on the 590 wood have helped a lot by itself
A stock broken in cs590 beats a 261 everyday in my experience, maybe not in small softwood, but for sure in 18"oak
We didn’t try it in big wood. I’m sure the cc will pull on the echo. This was hickory. Mainly just to show the difference of speed after mods
Surprise surprise a 59cc saw can out cut a 51cc saw. What a revelation.
@@eurokid83 that’s isn’t the point of the video. It’s to show the power upgrade from the mods. If I used a 362 Stihl it would not have been close
for real a professional saw vs a non professional because a 362 stihl is a professional saw@@timberandtools
I’ve owned a 362. Great saw, but it’s hardly better than the 590 at full bar capacity. I actually like the Echos better. A bit slower, but a less fussy saw in my experience.
Does that extra hole in the muffler blow a lot of oil out of it?
@@you-tube153 no my saws do not have any oil coming from them. If the fuel mixture was to rich I would say yes I could blow oil out of that hole.
OK, I read through the comments and now know 5/8" is better than 1/2" and you retuned the carb off camera. The only way I know how is by ear. I do the LOW first, then the HIGH and back to the LOW if needed. All on a hot engine. Does it get more complicated? Can you explain tuning in the cut? Thanks.
Main reason for this video was the modifications. I do tune by ear. I also tune a bit leaner than some because I always have a sharp chain etc. I think tuning is best done by the specific operator. Best way to explain how I tune is to fatten up the L so throttle response is crisp then adjust the H not to scream but to get it to get a decent rpm and tuning in the cut is variable based on operator really. If you not always sharp and you tune lean saw is not gonna last to long or if you over rev etc…
@@timberandtools Hey, thanks. I understand what you mean about in the cut. Under load you might realize that it can run a bit leaner, gain power and never blow up as long as you don't lift and overrev constantly. I'm sure the engine will wear faster than the factory (or ear) settings, but it's worth it. As always, a sharp chain is the safest chain you can use.
@@peterp.6249 definitely the safest!!! I have several saws I’ve run daily for years and they’re still run great. I use Stihl ultra which probably doesn’t matter much but 42.5 to 1 ratio helps with the lean tunes… my 440 I got used and had I about 4 years now. 3 of those years was being run daily. P and c still look new just had the muff of to check a few months back. So far so good lol 😂
The stihl 311 is a much better match up. I have both , both modded. The 590 cuts fantastic especially in hard woods, has the torque needed to muscle through without bogging down to much.. the 311 runs fantastic and the mods helped it throttle response drastically , really opened the saw up. But with everything being said I like the design of the 590 better especially with the price difference and weight
For sure a great saw!! Price is unbeatable
Nice video, thanks for posting, don't worry about the safety police, they can't help themselves.
They will always be there lol😂😎
What do you think about buying the Echo cs 8001, it is in good condition and costs $ 200
I have only experience with the cs 8000 good saw lots of torque kinda heavy but good saw overall and for 200$ I’d say buy it!
BUY IT!
Are the 261 m tronic saws any good
Yeah I have both versions of the 261. I prefer a carb, however the 261 m tronic has not given me a single issue and have had saw for years now
@@timberandtools cool thanks
@@jackmcminn2520 anytime, thanks for watching!!!!!
I’ve always wondered about the echo saws but my closest saw shop carries Stihl so that’s what I bought. I guess if they carried Echo I wouldn’t be wondering 😅. I take it you do all the service yourself? How does echo handle warranty work?
Yes I do all the work myself however in the last four years I have been running Echo products I haven’t needed to do any actual repairs and I’m not kidding. That pretty much goes the same for the steel products that I have bought as well I do really maintenance and take care of my things well so they usually last quite a while. I highly recommend the more professional series of Saw that echo makes to anyone. I run echo 2511 tophandle chainsaws all day every day and just keep putting gas and bar oil in them. This echo Timberwolf was my first experience with a bigger echo saw and I am a fan. We have since put a 24 inch bar on it and my worker really enjoys the saw I even grab it and run it from time to time.
@@timberandtools the 2511t looks like a really nice option i can’t lie
@@Johnnyreengo it definitely needs a muff mod and carb tune but after that look out for sure
Love the helmet and no chaps or saw pants whilst cutting towards each other. SafeTy fIrsT
Glad you enjoyed it 👌
In the other video, they are doing the same whilst eating a peanut butter sandwich.
That muffler mod will get you a ticket if you cut wood on State or Federal land where spark arrester screens are required.
It's better to drill the hole next to the pipe under the deflector plate. Then the exhaust exits through the spark arrester screen, so it's legal.
Absolutely!!!
That's what I did and it gained a ton of throttle response and I still have my original deflector and screen in it!!!I
@stevenblake6939 wakes me right up !
I thought you were tuning the carb? Why does it say that?
I guess the title is misleading, I don’t give a good explanation on the tune! Sorry about that. These saws are quite easy to tune . I returned after muffler mod. That why it is in the title
interesting way to mod....Ive seen some other mufflers with a twin hole up front..so I guess so.
I just did a little carb adj on mine, its a ANIMAL. $325....4 years ago. a little heavy, but it cuts crazy good.
I have a lot of saws so quick and easy works for me haha. It is a work horse saw for the money it can’t be beat!!
@@timberandtools is it Really loud now? my neighbors already feel the Bass when I run that saw..LOL
I did a light muffler Mod on my cs370, its not much louder, and it picked up nice. That saw is light and has seen alot of use/abuse...runs like a champ.
@@harryharry3193 not really, loud is a straight shot muffler or a bark box by west coast saws haha
I have a 620p I am going to mod when it gets broken in.
Your going to be happy for sure, it really wakes them up!!!! 620 is a cool saw. It really runs well for its size
@@timberandtools do you have an a-proximate on of the size of the hole you put in the muffler? The 620p is a really nice saw as it is. I’ve got a 550xp M2 and a 572xp. I really like the 620. Reminds me of a Dolmar 6400. I may just get it ported too. We will see.
@@backyardfirewood9852 yeah the hole is 1/2” but I think it needs to be 5/8” tbh. Those other saws are great too! I also love dolmar
@@backyardfirewood9852 really want to buy a 550 to compare against my 261!!
@@timberandtools if you ever ran a 5105 you know what the Mark 2 is like. I want to get a 501p to compare to the 550.
Ive cut wood for over 30 years heating at least two homes and a waterstove and seriously dont know why Id worry about the speed differences as there both fast enough to get the job done.
Cutting wood for a living , it’s just nice to get a little extra umpf out of the saw. Not needed but makes it more enjoyable to run
@@timberandtools I understand if it were my job I'd probably do same. You guys should do a vid on cutting trees that have stress on them and safest way to work them up. They can scare me sometimes. I got one now actually
@@Owl4909 for sure! Do you mean like a leaning tree?
@@timberandtools ones that have pressure on them when they fall in the woods . it can be narley
@@Owl4909 yes definitely dangerous stuff to work in that environment. Compression and tension wood !!
My car 400 muffler had a catalytic converter in it. The whole inside was honeycomb.
Really? Maybe California emissions??
The 590 with a muff mid and tune seems comparable to a 362
I would say it is comparable but most likely a hair less. Based on running both of them. I do think the 362 has a touch more
Defeated the spark arrestor somewhat.
Definitely, In our area we don’t have any issues with needing a spark arrestor on the saws matter-of-factly rarely ever have seen or heard of a wildfire in my area that wasn’t started by a campfire or a big burn that got out of control. I am aware in some areas how dangerous it could be to run without the arrester
There is spose to be an oring on the filter
Makes sense that was like whattttt
@@timberandtools not all of them are that way i have an old 330t thats alot better design
I just took the air filter off my brand new CS590 for the first time. Same thing as yours no o ring and dust starting to make its way in. I will be putting one on now. Thanks!
@@marshymarsh20 not a problem man
@@marshymarsh20 glad you caught it! It’s crazy they had it like this!!
The coil is what really holds her back throw a 620p coil on it
I will tell my worker, it’s his saw!
@@timberandtools its a limited h jet carb too semi fixed they are reliable but not for performance
How smart can the two cut on the same end be? Just a broken chain on a chainsaw, what are the consequences?
An injury leads to an additional burden on the healthcare system...
Suprised you didn’t mention the fact we’re not wear chaps. 😂 btw myself or crew has not had an injury or broken a chain while doing this😌 we also have workman’s compensation and health insurance so don’t worry about a freeloading work injury affecting the healthcare system….
@@timberandtools Accident? The question is 'when?' and not 'if?' .
And by publishing this video, you will realize that you indicate that this is correct, an example to follow...
The part that can be seen is a joke, the part that will not be seen (the accident) is the responsibility of the paramedics.
Obviously, I came across a superior intelligence that thinks it will collect some insurance in the case of a fatal accident - the insurance is collected by the relatives for the funeral.
And I'm not worried that you're promoting dangerous things, but conditionally.
I'm surprised that if you're employed with insurance, you don't know that you never point a chainsaw in motion at another person nearby - a chainsaw in motion is like a weapon with a safe taken. But you probably have an equally intelligent boss...
@@PopaAlexandru. I am the boss and as far as the chainsaw goes some people can’t handle it. You would have died 50 years ago there was safety regards for nothing and those men went to work and came home safe just the same as today, we’re not all cupcakes some of us are real men
@@timberandtools Real men can stop the chain with their chest!
And what if there was an accident? It can't happen to me! However, it happens to some people...
@@PopaAlexandru. accidents happen to people with all safety equipment and being careful EVERYDAY
Some people shouldn’t be allowed to own tools.
That’s an interesting comment Barry, what makes you say such a thing?
@@timberandtools I’m a dick.
@@eurokid83 right on
You did nothing. Congratulations
Improving the power proven by comparing cut times…. This Made it a lot better than it was 💪🏻