Hoenn has this issue where it feels like every gym is designed around having a single actually threatening pokemon and everything else is filler at worst and half ok support meant to make it slightly easier for the actually strong pokemon to sweep at best. Oh and then that actually "strong" pokemon half the time isn't even threatening anyways The only exception I see is Emerald Tate and Liza where the entire team is relatively threatening, and if anything the actual "ace" pokemon feel like the filler to an extent, but still they're the rare actually good gym
Especially if you know what they have. 1st gym just requires the usual starter pick, 2nd is literally almost impossible to lose if you catch one pokemon located right in the cave you're encouraged to go to, and besides Watson and Tate & Liza? Knock Off, Protect/Dig, Ice Beam, and basically anything you own for Juan and you can sweep the gyms easily due to what you mentioned. Whether it's abusing truant or knocking off a white herb using Thick Fat, having one key strategy makes their "ace" not really threatening. I mean, Winona tries to DDance in front of enemies with a quad effective ice move; if the leaders did a more consistent team across all their pokemon (even with intentional set ups like weather setters) they'd be much more interesting fights
Gen 5 was also the first game in the franchise where being underleveled is almost impossible so they don't even have the saving grace of being potentially difficult due to level differences
I am generally a fan of the changes gen 5 made to the exp system, I think for me some gym leaders ended up being fairly tough (for pokemons standards) while others not so much
My understanding of Winona’s team in most of the games is that it heavily relies on type advantages. You could easily defeat Swablu/Swellow with a rock type, but her all of her remaining Pokemon have a counter for rock types. If Tropius is out, you would likely switch to a fire type, but then she could send out her Pelliper to counter the fire type. Winona’s strategy for her whole team is pretty much sending out a Pokemon that could counter your typing and force you to switch out. They likely gave Altaria earthquake to counter any electric types if Pelliper was defeated by one. yes i watched a lot of truegreen7
Possibly, it's an interesting idea anyway. But I'd air on the side of that being a coincidence since that's not really a trend we see consistently as you get later into the game. For example, glacia could use earthquake on glalie or walrein to counter her steel weakness but we don't see that.
@@RoryTheFiend here's what we have in the emerald legacy Roxanne: lileep anorith nosepass Brawly 2: meditite makuhita breloom (breloom only has tackle bulk up( Brawly 3: meditite breloom hariyama (breloom has a better set n so does hariyama) Brawly 4: meditite machoke breloom hariyama (meditite has psychic n calm mind) Also dark type coverage n darks physical meaning ghosts will struggle here Wattson 2: electrike chinchou magneton Wattson 3: chinchou plusle magneton manectric Wattson does have ground counters with chinchou, hp grass on plusle n manectric bite We will give chinchou aurora beam because we noticed grass sweeps this gym Flannery 3: vulpix slugma numel torkoal Flannery 4: vulpix magcargo camerupt torkoal (magcargo has both screens n flamethrower rock slide) Norman: spinda linoone girafarig slaking (girafarig carries shadow ball n psybeam n calm mind) We felt spinda n linoone were too iconic n vigoroth was redundant Would have given him swellow or dodrio over linoone but Winona exists Winona: swellow tropius skarmory pelipper n altaria The pelipper has ice beam surf supersonic aerial ace We gave skarmory drill peck We liked tropius and altaria (dragon is physical so altaria is even scarier with aerial ace dragonbreath n earthquake ALL PHYSICAL)
@@RoryTheFiend phoebe has a massive stat overhaul because ghost is always special in our legacy games We swapped banette n dusclops was given 80 special attack We gave shendinja 70 base special attack for shadow ball Added misdreavus n gengar to her team and sabeleye got a stat buff of 10 each The other things I can't reveal to you
@arrowblade_1238 Why would the Hoenn fossils have to be paired together, but not the Sinnoh fossils? If anything, the Hoenn fossils are one of the most distantly related pair of fossil mons in the series, while the Sinnoh fossils are the most closely related pair of fossil mons.
I feel like you should have kept Tate and Liza's Sunny Day strategy at least somewhat. It's meant to counter Surf spam and especially Swampert. I don't mind Solrock being changed to a physical attacker, but there was a reason for why they had it.
I'd say that light screen does the same job but better, especially with the calm minds and cosmic powers I don't think tate and liza are in short supply for tanking special attacks
disagree, surf is this teams biggest weakness by far and boosting strats are too slow to do anything about it effectively. light screen and grass coverage on xatu help but not really enough. sunny day and solarbeam solrock turns this team from being owned by swampert to potentially countering it pretty hard. even with the mediocre special attack it should be close to a one hit ko most of the time. its also quite thematic both to their pokemon and to gen 3 as a whole.
@@RoryTheFiend Half the Gym Leaders using Sunny Day kinda gets boring, so I can take it or leave it. I mostly just feel like the Ancient Power hacks is way too iconic to the fight, and that having 100% accuracy is doubly important in a Double Battle, so it's even still better than Rock Slide without that secondary effect proc.
14:22 alternatively you could’ve given him a Chinchou or Lanturn (evolves at 27 which isn’t as ergigous as Magneton). It could have Water Pulse, Soark, Confuse Ray, and ice beam
A note on Gym 7’s pre-edit focus on Sunny Day. You note correctly that Solrock has “Sun-themed” moves but I think the inclusion of Sunny Day on it and especially Xatu is to make Water in general, and Rain Dance in particular, way less effective, since their aces are both very weak to Surf. By this point most players will have either a Swampert or some other Water type which will typically be running Surf, which is not only distributed widely but has good base power and targets both opponents in double battles.
11:00 ~ Fun Fact: It's actually possible to find wild Pokemon below their evolution level. (An example from the top of my head: There are places in FireRed where you can fish Seadra below lvl 30)
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I believe the Power Plant also has underleveled 'Mons in it too.
Sorry but you have to keep arm thrust on Makuhita as in gen 3 it was its signature move maybe that's why they gave it both arm thrust and vital throw it just fits the character more asw
Thank you! I'm glad someone realises how time consuming these can be lol, theorycrafting the teams then scripting 10k words, recording commentary and editing where there's easily 10+ layers going on at once Doing all that in my free time, ideally I could do it within one month but that'd definitely burn me out So ATM chugging along with a video every month and a half seems fairly sustainable for me (might be good to sprinkle in some shorter video topic though)
You really cooked with this one. Great job. I hope you do Generation 4 next. That's when I truly understood how Pokémon works. As Platinum was my first DS game.
Personally something I would had done is giving Flannery Magcargo. Like is not particulary powerful at that point of the game, but with sunny day its also not a load,and it allows Flannery to keep 4 mons
Magcargo would be an interesting addition, I didn't consider it purely because it evolves at the very late level of 38, and while Game Freak is no stranger to giving gym leaders underlevelled evolved pokemon, I personally want to avoid adding to that list. But if it evolved at a reasonable level I could see myself giving her one.
@@RoryTheFiend illegal pokemon are world building! having earlier evolved pokemon/pokemon with illegal moves signals that the leaders or whoever else know more and have deeper expertise than you do, or have particularly talented pokemon, thus making the world larger and more complex than it would have been otherwise. movesets and evolution levels etc are abstractions of the players circumstances which should not be considered universal, as the world of pokemon is much more than whatever tiles we get to walk around on in the game in question.
@@RoryTheFiendI don’t see underlevelled pokemon as breaking the rules but rather world building. The only reason why levels exist are for gameplay reasons, they don’t exist within the pokemon world. Pokemon can evolve before or after their supposed level because it’s not a be all end all.
I'd also argue Magcargo isn't as weak as it should be, as I can't think of any strong water pokemon/moves you'd have access to at that point, you don't get Surf until after Gym 5. Obviously still 4x weak to Ground type, but worth pondering
Sinnoh needs this treatment the most I think, I mean good lord look at the electric gym. And the fire elite 4 flint. That’s what renegade platinum did right.
I mean you don't even need to look at renegade platinum. just regular platinum fixes them and he'd be improving the teams of those. it's more of an issue with diamond/pearl's dex. platinum's leaders are actually pretty competent
Yeah well the thing is, if I'm working within the confines of the diamond / Pearl dex then honestly I don't know how I could make Flints team more fire like, maybe a rotom--heat but that's it.
I was about to say "Why can't Manectric just get Ice Fang? Ice-type moves are special in this generation." Then I remembered that the elemental fang moves came out in Gen 4.
I feel like wigglytuff was probably the right decision but I think instead giving him a normal type from Johto like an Ursaring or Dunsparce could have been cool to tie that part of his background into the team.
I literally woke up today and thought "Girafarig for Norman would've worked!" Ties back to johto AND counters fighting types decently, power of hindsight after I upload these videos always gets me.
Thank you! I appreciate the kind words, always get nervous over what the general audience will end up thinking, but it's always been positive. Elite 4 video may be next, or may not be, considering whether I want to do a shorter simpler video to mix things up. But I'm excited to tackle the elite 4, it'll be challenging considering how few ice and ghost types there are, but thats part of the fun
25:21 really good team but I was expecting you to use Griafirag since it’s part psychic type and can help fill the confusion role that Spinda was trying to do
I was considering it, but girafarig even though its in the region feels a bit foreign to me in hoenn, also since norman just moved here, might be a bit much to give him a lot of tools found in other parts of the region.
Finally got to check up on this video! Gotta say, I love it. I was really curious on how you’d improve Norman’s gym in particular. Wigglytuff was the last Pokémon I had in mind, but it makes sense with what you’re trying to do! Great stuff as always! :)
Thank you Kake! Well Wigglytuff in hindsight I think is a slight left field pick but I do try and combine both obvious and obscure choices. Gives a good balance of familiarity and fresh feelingness to these fights I feel
Terrific content as always Rory. Thought you did well to make the gym leaders harder given many of them were reputed for being tough already. I wonder if given your use of Minun and Gorebyss you could potentially have a situation where leaders change their Pokémon based on which version you’re playing. For example Sapphire might see you battle Minun and Huntail whereas Ruby could see you battle Plusle and Gorebyss. Just an idea, lemme know what you think! Can’t wait for the next video! ❤
Thank you sploosh! I think in general the different Pokémon versions should incorporate more differences than they currently do, so having more gym leader team changes depending on the version, even minor would be appreciated An example of version differences I'd like to see would be routes and towns having different designs to them, which was seen in black and white 1/2 at least with I believe opelucid city
I think Aron makes more sense than Lileep for Roxanne. Also, the plural of Synthesis is Syntheses. And Brick Break is found in Mossdeep, not Sootopolis.
Yeah aron can work for Roxanne 100%! Nah brick break is found in sootopolis, maybe you're thinking of the Dynamic Punch tutor that is found in Mossdeep?
Another idea for Juan: Clamperl holding a Deep Sea Tooth. Holding a Deep Sea Tooth doubles Clamperl's special attack. Clamperl has a Special Attack of 74 while Huntail and Gorebyss have 94 and 114 respectively. So Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl hits much harder.
while true, its also a clamperl. its slow and wont live a single super effective hit, so as funny as it would be it wouldn't really fit tbh, especially for the 8th gym
Kinda agree with both here, I'm not above putting a memey pick on a team, but yeah in this case I'd side towards it being a bit too ineffective on a hard mode where people should know what they're doing.
Very nice video with some nice teams again, I rly liked the ninjask on Winonas team! Hoenn is my absolute favorite region, therefore he is my take on that topic without lvls. For Roxanne Aron Ability: Sturdy - Headbutt - Rock Tomb - Mud-Slap Anorith Ability: Battle Armor - Cut - Rock Tomb - Harden Nosepass Ability: Sturdy - Tackle - Harden - Rock Tomb - Block Lileep @ Oran Berry Ability: Suction Cups - Bullet Seed - Constrict - Acid - Ancient Power Brawly Machop Ability: Guts - Bulk Up - Karate Chop - Focus Energy - Substitute Meditite Ability: Pure Power - Bulk Up - Light Screen - Shadow Ball - Brick Break Makuhita @ Sitrus Berry Ability: Thick Fat - Fake Out - Bulk Up - Arm Thrust - Rock Tomb Breloom @ Black Belt Ability: Effect Spore - Bullet Seed - Headbutt - Mach Punch - Bulk Up For Watson its a double battle. I mean Minun and Plusle are THE figurehead of the newly added double battle mechanic, that they desrve more then a few unmarkable appearance without any good feature. So here we go: Minun Ability: Minus - Thunder Wave - Light Screen - Metronome - Shock Wave Plusle Ability: Plus - Thunder Wave - Shock Wave - Swift - Spark Lanturn Ability: Volt Absorb IVs: 0 Atk - Shock Wave - Surf - Confuse Ray - Ice Beam Manectric @ Sitrus Berry Ability: Static - Spark - Howl - Quick Attack - Body Slam Adding a bit of difficulty after the third badge. Numel Ability: Oblivious - Body Slam - Sunny Day - Overheat - Magnitude Camerupt Ability: Magma Armor - Earthquake - Flamethrower - Rock Slide - Sunny Day Magcargo Ability: Flame Body - Sunny Day - Rock Slide - Light Screen - Overheat Ninetales @ Sitrus Berry Ability: Flash Fire - Flamethrower - Will-O-Wisp - Sunny Day - Quick Attack Torkoal (F) @ White Herb Ability: White Smoke - Curse - Body Slam - Overheat - Attract For Norman its the same. kecleon is unique and cool (obv bad) but it should get more screentime aswell. Zangoose @ Silk Scarf Ability: Immunity - Facade - Swords Dance - Quick Attack - Rock Slide Spinda Ability: Own Tempo IVs: 0 Atk - Calm Mind - Psychic - Fire Punch - Ice Punch Kecleon Ability: Color Change IVs: 0 Atk - Fire Blast - Blizzard - Thunder - Thunder Wave Vigoroth @ Sitrus Berry Ability: Vital Spirit - Facade - Bulk Up - Shadow Ball - Slack Off Linoone @ Sitrus Berry Ability: Pickup - Belly Drum - Substitute - Extreme Speed - Shadow Ball Slaking @ Sitrus Berry Ability: Truant - Shadow Ball - Hyper Beam - Earthquake - Brick Break
I really wished you increased Winona’s Levels more since the amount of trainers you CAN fight could make you overleveled imo. I’d do LV 35, 1 LV below the Final Evo Starters
That's fair, tbh Gym 6 is fairly open ended when you do it, since you can go all the way through to lilycove, mt pyre etc etc So I found it hard to pin point an exact level she should be. But I do think in general her team showed a large amount of improvement considering how low levelled her non Altaria team members were in the base game.
love this, very good job fixing they team, although i would loved even more with it was in a gen 3 remake, like ORAS. We could use some mega evolution, have a more variety of pokemons, abilities and a better physical/special split, another thing that i would, pernonally, would swap vigoroth with linoone, give it a flame orb to swellow and remove pelipper from winona team because yes, it will die(especially in the remakes), and will also make only the last gym to have 5 pokemons keep in mind that this is only my choice, i don't dislike the choices here and i absolutely love your videos
Thank you, and solid suggestions. I mean I may possibly do a fixing ORAS video in the future. Though I'm yet to play the games (will be playing them soon) the amount of flexibility in movesets and held items in gen 6 over gen 3 would be great fun to theorycraft with. (Also I can tell everyone my fun fact that they ruined the trainers IVs in ORAS)
@@RoryTheFiend well let's be honest, we all know that this was the last decent game game freak would provide to us, i mean, look at the battle frontier, do you see it? Sure, they try to cook something with violet but run out of gas and ingredients, anyway, thanks to check up my comment. Love you work
@@irritatorgoner1087 Personally I think game freak did good on gen 5, and then it sort of got worse and worse, but I definitely think gen 3 is one of the best pokemon games out there. Also no problem sorry for the late response, I appreciate the kind words and hope I can keep making vids people find worth watching!
I like the idea of giving Wattson a Zigzagoon with Surf-Shock Wave-Headbutt-Charm to deal with Ground types, especially since he had to go to New Mauville at some point in his life and there's not a single floating device near Mauville. Charm is an egg move from Pikachu and there's an NPC at the beach south of Slateport that gives the information about Zigzagoon learning Surf, so it still makes sense thematically at that point in the game while giving tons of coverage and showing that movesets can be extremely varied, even on a Pokémon like Zigzagoon
I am biased afterall, in an upcoming video I'll probably have the Ninjask drawing wizz around the background intro, like how for this video I had linoone chilling in the corner. But yeah Ninjask is a fun pokemon, give it a turn or 2 and it could easily snowball
Thank you! I'm sure you'll have a handful of things you disagree with me on (tthough idm if u just agree with it all lol), but that's the beauty of this sort of content, I get to hear everyones thoughts and differences on what could work. Lileep is just great since it gets grass and posion attacks for the two starters that wreck rock, water and grass, a logical pick and a bonus that the secondary grass typing makes it take neutral from all 3 starter attacks. Honestly, in my mind, it just makes total sense
@@RoryTheFiend I agreed with most things, but for those who want to keep a pure-water theme on Jaun, I'd say Tentacruel instead of Masquerain. Counters grass still, Sludgebomb for more physical damage on the team (and more dmg than masq's Ice Beams), Haze for anti setup, good bulk and bst, and Toxic to whittle anyone down (especially confused or going into Kingrda). Personally, I like the e4 to have type exceptions, while the gym-leaders stay pure. But that's just me!
@@Kmn483 Tentacruel would be a solid choice, as long as it can counter grass types then that really helps to round out Juans team. I'm a sucker for adding in pokemon that aren't the gyms type but still work thematically, despite having some people very much annoyed at me choosing to do so lol.
Ive been hyped for this video all week man, great job! 😁 I think that the teams you remade are pretty much all good, though i do think that Vigoroth on Norman's team should be replaced by a Zangoose, a much stronger mon, as well as maybe replacing Wigglytuff with Exploud. and i wished Relicanth wouldve been used on either the Rock or Water gyms, as it hardly gets any representation in its native region, as far as i know. Other than that, a pretty great watch. Keep it up. 😁👍
Thank you I'm glad you enjoyed it! The reason why I didn't give Norman a zangoose is basically because, to me, his signature evolution line is the slakoth line so I wanted vigoroth and slaking on his team, but zangoose does fit for sure and is a great pokemon. For Relicanth, that's a good shout, I'd honestly consider myself a bigger relicanth fan than most but I suppose I just felt it didn't fit Juan's aesthetic and for roxanne it's be too strong. That being said, I'll definitely consider it for when I look into the hoenns elite 4, as It could potentially work for wallace or even Steven, and Glacia if you really stretch it.
If only Game Freak had more time to have more Pokémon Emerald content in the Generation 3 remakes. Imagine Juan and the Battle Frontier trainers with Mega Evolution?
I'm still yet to play ORAS (will be playing it soon) but yeah I'm sad things like the Battle Frontier isn't a thing in them. In general I wish the pokemon remakes focused on the 3rd version to remake, it makes sense in every way except you cant sell two versions of the game to make more money.
I felt that Wally should have been the first ever gym leader to have a double battle. Starting off with both Plusle and Minun to activate their abilities. The rest are the same.
It's an interesting idea for sure, a lot of other people feel the same. I wouldn't mind it, but if we made him a double battle I'd probably change the several trainers in the previous route that double battle with plusle and minun
Well, for Roxanne, why the Magnet Pull ability on Nosepass? You can’t get a Steel-type until after the gym. You didn’t even include that ability in the new team composition; it still shows Sturdy. For Flannery, why not give the Ninetales Hidden Power Grass? That would discourage Swampert sweeping the team. Magcargo could also work as a 4th team member. For Juan, replacing the Whiscash for Masquerain leaves a problem: There’s no way to hit Electric types such as Manetric and Electrode super-effectively, as the only Pokémon with Earthquake on the original team was removed. I’d say the bring back the Whiscash with Earthquake, or maybe bring a Physical attacking Water type with some kind of Ground type attack.
For Nosepass, would Sturdy have been any better? You can't get any one hit k.o. moves that early to my knowledge, and that's the only thing Sturdy stops until it gets reworked in Gen 5. As for showing it on the new team comp, that was probably an oversight in presentation.
I have been confused by Masquerain gaining Flying type in exchange for Surskit's Water type. _Rain_ is in the name. Looking at the original Japanese, there are 2 water themed word plays in the name. Water is Masquerain's thing. Bug/Flying is a type combo that is far too common for this travesty. *Make the **_rain_** Water!*
You mentioned doing a game with a lunatone at some point and I highly recommend it, I have a lunatone that’s on my champion team, he was actually one of my only Pokémon with coverage moves and not just moves that match the Pokémon types
Yeah I'll be playing through ORAS soon, and I'm 100% using Lunatone, a cool dual type and nice coverage moves I recall it can learn ice beam from tm and moonblast if I go to the move tutor. So I'm hoping it'll be an unexpected mvp of my future playthrough.
Please fix the 2peats in E4. I made a suggestion when you made a community post that Glacia's interaction texts point to her moving back to Hoeen to particularly hone her "icy skills/ icy moves" so she could be part a 2nd speciality that learn the ice type moves like ice punch, icy wind etc
I definitely want to avoid repeating pokemon where possible, so if glacia is primarily focused on icy skills and moves then for sure I can look into non ice pokemon that can learn ice moves. Normal / Water types probably are the best for that
@@RoryTheFiend i put mons like Grumpig with icy wind (thick fat also works thematically) and alakazam with 3 elemental punches on her squad when brainstorming, both mons are completely overlooked in the dex
I like what you did with the gym leaders. I do have a couple of suggestions Flannery Make either Camerupt or Torkoal male so that one of them can attract the player's female Pokémon. Norman Swap out Vigoroth for Girafarig. Norman is originally from Johto so this would be a cool example of gameplay and story integration. Girafarig's Psychic will catch many players by surprise who are hoping to sweep with Fighting types. Alternatively, Girafarig can Baton Pass a Calm Mind boost to Wigglytuff. Winona Have Winona lead with Skarmory and give him a Sitrus Berry. This will allow Skarmory to lay more spikes sooner which will start having a huge impact in the late game. Juan Have him lead with Crawdaunt and give him a Focus Band. If Crawdaunt can knock off the player's Pokemon held item early, it could be a major hurdle to the player. I was also thinking about swapping out Water Pulse for Hidden Power Ground. Hidden Power Ground would certainly help against any Electric types that the player will likely bring.
Solid suggestions, for flannery yeah I usually don't bother to specify if they're male or female, but I totally agree that they should have different genders For norman yeah I agree with that, girafarig is great for fighting and makes sense with his Johto origins With Winona I think that's a good idea as well, but I sometimes like to avoid leading with a top tier Pokémon as well informed players will just lead with their best counter matchup, so hoping this gives skarmory a slightly better opening to set up spikes later down the line With Juan, again another fair suggestion, leading into knock off is great to get the item loss benefit from the get go Thank you for your comment a lot of well thought out ideas that I think have good merit to them!
This is a really cool video. Although, maybe I could switch out Swellow with Girafarig as a reference to Norman being originally from Johto. Still helps out against the fighting types too, thanks to its dual psychic typing.
Girafarig is a really good suggestion, I'll be honest I woke up the day after I uploaded and "girafarig!" sprung to my mind as well haha. Always at least a little bit of hindsight after I upload these, but hey just giving the commentars a chance to shine with their suggestions
I think they did actually nerf winona from ruby and sapphire to emerald. Her ruby sapphire team was incredible with a lead swellow (a scary speedy threat who punishes status inflictions), a bulky pelliper who would confuse you and takes on those rock types and is neutral to ice as well, a bulky skarmory who is also neutral to ice hits ice types hard (you won’t have them), but it also hits rock hard making electric ideal for the first 3 members but then the game punishes electric with that boss altaria. They probably decided to swap swellow for a swablu and tropius to have something slower and less immediately scary to fight because I know ruby and sapphire winona was a huge spike in difficulty
Most of these I agree with, but I'm surprised you left Water Pulse on crawdaunt. It already has Crabhammer... Maybe Sludge Bomb for grasses or Body Slam if you want to keep neutral damage + status?
Well I basically wanted to keep juan with a significant amount of representation of his tm, sludge bomb came to mind to deal with grass types though, that'd be what I'd replace over water pulse
Only thing I'm not sure I'd like is changing Sunny Day on Xatu, yeah Tate and Liza's pokemon don't have the best moves to take advantage of that, but I think the big thing Sunny Day prevents especially in gen 3 is surf spam on the part of the player, which is an incredibly easy strat since in gen 3 surf doesn't hurt your allies, AND 3 out of 4 of their pokemon are weak to water, Sunny Day cuts the power of that strategy way down and can even make it unviable, I've often seen nuzlocke players going in with this as their strategy for Tate and Liza get thwarted by Xatu using Sunny Day early in the match before they can focus down Claydol
Tbh, I always thought Masquerain was water/bug when I was younger, because it evolved from Surskit. So Juan having one wouldn’t have raised an eyebrow for younger me.
Worth noting that Ghost is physical in Gen 3, so Meditite having HP-Ghost is actually pretty strong. I do however have to admit that you _might_ be overbuffing some of the Gym Leaders, particularly the early ones. While yes, those games aren't exactly the hardest, but you shouldn't go too far in the other direction. You have to consider what Pokemon and moves the player will have at that point and not just in a "how do I make sure the gym leader doesn't get completely walled by this" way. You don't want to make the bosses too challenging. I mean, Smith's Emerald Legacy had to give Roxanne's Anorith just Scratch and Harden, no Rock STAB, and that's _with_ buffing Pokemon movesets and availability, which you don't do in your videos. Holacalaca in the comments put it way better, so read their comment and keep that in mind for future videos.
If only the writers of the Pokémon Generation 3 anime back then give the Hoenn Regional Gym Leaders your version of their team. This is truly fantastic.
I think for roxanne you lower her team composition to two pokemon and have her be a version exclusive fight so... Ruby- Anorith and Nosepass Sapphire -Lileep and Nosepass Emerald - all 3
Tate and Liza's sol rock knowing sunny day and solar beam is to mess with swampert surf spammers. The new team just made it easier for swampert to rip and tear
I feel like removing Counter from Slaking is a mistake. It makes it far easier to strategize around it. Personally, I might take a cue from the RS Norman fight, and go with Facade/Yawn/Counter/Focus Punch. Punished if you attack, punished if you don't. Plus, the Dark coverage doesn't help much, imo, especially since he has it elsewhere on the team.
I mostly like the changes but i do have one criticism you are keeping/adding moves such as double team and Attract and not as bad but still a problem 55% status moves yes they make it harder but not in a good way as it makes the game way less fun and frustrating. when it comes to difficulty in a game if you want to do it right you need to keep in mind fun you want the difficulty to add to the experience and only thing the moves i mentioned early do is add Annoyance and frustration. Tldr moves such as evasion boosting moves,accuracy lowering moves and Attract dont make good difficulty that adds to the experience instead it hurts the experience.
It Makuhita getting Thunderpunch possibly a slight reference to Iron Hands? Since Iron Hands is a Hariyama looking Paradox mon that is part electric type, this almost sounds like that was chosen like that on purpose
More mons with grass typing or grass moves would help balance hoenne to keep mudkip from soloing everytime Fossils for Roxanne. Breloom for brawly. Solar beam for flannery etc.
I see your point, but Breloom on the 2nd gym could be very hard, especially if it has a Sableye counter move. I mean, even Misty's Starmie only had Bubblebeam or Water Pulse and it was already difficult if unprepared, but i believe a Bulk Up - Fighting move Breloom combo would be even more difficult... What do you think ? Edit : i forgot about Tailow, well, you can actually counter it hard, nevermind
Agreed, in general I've tried to add more grass types / grass type moves where possible (especially in my Fixing Hoenn's Rivals videos) With Breloom for Brawly, that'd be good if it wasn't for the fact you can't evolve Shroomish until level 23, while Game Freak is totally fine with giving Gym Leaders underlevelled fully evolved Pokemon, for me personally I'd like to avoid doing that. And with Solar beam for Flannery, the only fire pokemon that can learn Solar beam are ones not found in the region (Ponyta and Houndour) The limited pokemon and learnsets made this quite harder to counter the Mudkip line
@@AlexBelte3002Assuming that the base powers of every attacking move stays the same as in the base game, you can just give Breloom Rock Smash and Bullet Seed, as for the former it's only 20BP, while the latter it hits 2-5 times, with each hit only doing 10 BP Damage it. So you definitely could have Breloom as an ace for Brawly that's not too overwhelming.
Some other choices: Machop learns Rock Tomb Meditite learns Confusion (fighting type moves on this mon are awful, lol) Makuhita learns Feint Attack -- Minun learns Charm -- Much of Flannery's team learns Solar Beam -- Skarmory learns Curse -- Honestly, it feels like a shame not to give Winona back her Swellow, since she had one in Ruby/Sapphire and I consider its appearance in the anime fairly iconic. It's the first time I remember them using a shiny, anyways. Also, Ancient Power technically hits harder - like a lot harder - than Rock Slide since gen 3 halves the damage of all moves that hit both targets in a double battle. Not to say Rock Slide isn't good, it's just something to consider. Especially on Claydoll, whose mediocre defenses make the omni boost one of the biggest threats with this pokemon.
In hindsight yeah I can agree to Minun using charm and flannery's team does not learn solarbeam, not in gen 3 anyway, it's only entei ho-oh ponyta line and houndour line For winona with Swellow, yeah I mean I've got no problems with her using one, as you say it is iconic in the anime. For tate and liza, yeah the rock slide damage reduction is a shame but I feel it strikes a good balance with claydol showing off spread moves and xatu focus firing calm mind boosted attacks.
Never thought of this but it feels a bit weird that someone that just moved from the Johto region has no Johto Pokémon and is able to have a full set of Pokémon from a region you’re not even from. Wigglytuff does help with that at least.
I think, Zangoose is much more fiting mon in Norman's team, because his team concists of pure Normals. For the moves: Swords Dance, Facade, Brick Break and Shadow Ball for coverage
I loved the changes and I'm eagerly awaiting the changes in the elite 4, but I just didn't understand why leaving Flannery's 3 pokes with Sunny Day, they could have at least taken them out of Camerupt and put something more interesting, maybe an iron tail or something like that.
Thank you! Not sure it'll be my next video but I've been brainstorming some team ideas for the elite 4 For flannery teamn I think I just wanted to maximise the odds that the ai will set up the sun, as they can be unpredictable with what they choose, but swapping out sunny day for iron tail would be a good option i think
For the Solrock, i think the Sunny Day + Solarbeam combo is the only real gym leader threat against the Mudkip line. Would've suggested that on another pokemon that uses Special stat, though.
You're right in that it is great against swampert, so giving the xatu giga drain with it's far better special attacking stat is meant to compensate for that, while giving their whole team general improvements
While Numel & Slugma aren't gr8, I'd still keep either 1 cuz fun fact she's actually the last 4th gym leader to carry 4 Pokemon (up until Gen8), tho not as a lead since they could give player easy chances to set up in some way. Unlike the games, her anime Slugma had Yawn, so that could be helpful for her if it lives a hit. An exp fodder that can occasionally do things (like Roxanne's 2nd Geodude) at best & a liability at worst.
Great suggestions! Unfortunately in gen 3 weatherball and solarbeam was really limited in distribution and isn't really possible. For the remakes though? It'd be an awesome addition
I think slaking can use the truant turn to setup battle items, to avoid losing a turn and it fits well with the gym theme. If it were in other gens I'd give a slaking eject pack with giga impact. then use yawn and make the AI to switch after using a move with slaking
That'd be great if the AI knew how to work around Truant. Tbh I kinda hope they buff traunt, maybe make it so every turn they're not attacking they get heal a % of their max hp (since the pokemon is basically just lounging around for that turn)
Personally I would replace thunder punch on makuhita with rock throw or something of the sort. Fighting types for some reason always have the ability to use rock moves. And would provide the same coverage against birds and sableye, draw on his physical attack rather than special, AND provide coverage against what I believe is his ACTUAL main weakness (aside from sableye), bugs. Both Beautifly abs dustox quad resist fighting and pack super effective moves against him, plus have the stats of a fully evolved mon at these low levels. Either one of them can roll through brawly easier than guts Tailow.
@@shovanrahman1111 true, but rock tomb is usually a tm move (in fact it's Roxanne's tm move), so I wouldn't want to give a gym leader a tm move that's not their tm, and especially not ANOTHER gym leaders tm.
Basically this: was conflicted as rock tomb is obviously better but it is Roxanne's TM and she's the gym right before brawly. Would've felt a bit odd to me, but yeah I agree rock tomb would be a great move for makuhita
I'm editing my gym leaders, what do yall think of this for Roxanne? Geodude lvl 20, Sturdy, Holding Citrus berry with Rollout, Defense curl, Rock tomb and Rock throw Nosepass lvl 20 holding a hard stone with Sand force ability with Thunder wave, Harden, Rock tomb and Sandstorm Cranidos lvl 22 holding a rocky helmet Scary face, Headbutt, Take down and Rock tomb I took your idea of adding Lileep since she had it in the comics and all. Lileep lvl 23 holding hard stone, storm drain ability. with Acid, Ancient power, Ingrain and Rock tomb
*sees Swellow in Norman's team; emits a fanboy scream* Yes, I am a huge Swellow fan. It became a powerhouse in my ΩR team as well... But Wing Attack? Seriously? Aerial Ace is much more intimidating: a STAB, high-power, never miss move. With Guts, it even (for me) rivals Facade as a "if status'd" move. Focus Energy is interesting, and Steel Wing with its chance of +1 Defense would be my personal TM pick.
Do not like Norman’s team swallow is already a Pokémon from winnona and wigglytuff? Do you know exploud?? It would be a better option. Take swallow and put zangoose
you were kinda cooking with huge power double edge Azurill not gonna lie, give it a choice scarf and it could go crazy (it might do like half damage to one Pokemon before getting one shot)
shame choice scarf isn't a thing in gen 3, but yeah to be honest, I'm a fan of giving gym leaders weak pokemon but minmaxing them as much as possible so they can keep up with evolved pokemon. If you've seen my fixing kalos gym leaders video I did that for gym 3 and 4
This came up in my feed again and the comments about the first gym being weak to 2 of the stayers is interesting. The game scaffolds the challenge for the players so the first gym is all about players knowing how the gym works and what its relevance is to the game. Black and White were far better in terms of challenge for the first few gyms though.
I think you overlooked the utility of Sunny Day in the Psychic gym. Three of their four Pokémon are week to water, so this use of weather is actually one of the only times Emerald cucks Swampert.
I don't think it's needed considering we have light screen, calm mind, cosmic power that can apply a universal barrier against special attacks instead of weakening water attacks at the cost of being weaker to fire.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but why should Tate & Liza be the only gym that specializes in doubles? I think it’d be an interesting idea for Watson to be a double battle, have him start with plusle and minun and then a magneton and manectric. I think it’s a neat idea to consider for these hypotheticals haha
Yeah for being a new mechanic introduced in this Gen double battles are oddly underused, specially in the original ruby and sapphire. I mean to be fair the entirety of pokemon seems oddly against using double battles most of the time despite double battles being their main competitive format they want to use and double battles also being pretty good at hiding how terrible the AI is.
I've seen a few people comment that wattson should be a doubles guy, which to be honest, I can see it. My only hesitation is making it as early as gym 3. That being said, do you think any e4 should be a doubles battle? at the moment, just off the top of my head I'm leaning towards the idea of Drake with kingdra surf and earthquake on his flying/levitating mons, maybe potential for that to work.
My assumption would be they were hesitant to deviate from the standard single battle formula much, so just sprinkled it into 1 gym fight, some random trainers and the steven at the mossdeep space centre. As someone that's not too into doubles I never minded it, but I can definitely see how others would wish that they utilised it more for their first game to include them.
@@RoryTheFiend yeah I remember seeing a huge difference going from emerald to Ruby/sapphire and thinking “dang where are all the double battles??” lol. I think it’d be interesting to see in one of these Pokémon hacks, especially to make a decent use with plusle and minun considering every NPC doesn’t know how and just spams helping hand lol
All right here we are, Hoenn Gym Leaders ! That was, once again, a great video, with pretty good points. Here's how i would update this, considering it's a challenge mode : 1) Replacing Geodude with the other fossile Anorith, and making this gym a permanent sandstorm gym. Giving a big advantage to her rock team. 2) It's actually... perfect ! 👌 3) Making it a double battle ! I always find it weird that a region that represents the very beggining of the double battles only has... One gym battle with doubles. Considering his experience i believe Wattson should be a double battle expert, replacing IMO the Voltorb with Illumise or Volbeat : they are insect types so they resist ground type moves, and can learn double battle moves and Shock Wave. 4) Just to round her team up i would give her a Kecleon (reptile so he likes heat, and a guy in her gym uses one), with Flamethrower and maybe HP Grass..., and making this gym a permanent Sun gym, making it much harder if unprepared. 5) It's good 👍 replacing Wigglytuff with a mix attacker Linoone with a bellydrum - facade combo, and boltbeam coverage. Only Munja could block it but it's very unlikely, so IMO a much more dangerous option than Wigglytuff 6) Pretty great choices ! Not having Swellow did not affect her team quality, good job pal ! 7) Nothing to say, as much as i like Grumpig, it doesn't fit the "levy-tate" theme of this gym so... 8) I've one word to say : Munja ! The only counter is Crawdunt with Knock Off... But it's not easy to think around Munja like anyone would use it, i know. And btw : make it a permanent rain gym to up the difficulty. At this point you can sandstorm, sunny day, or hail it back so it's not *that much* of a threat if you're prepared properly.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! Wattson being a double battle is an interesting idea, I considered it, but decided against it purely because it's still fairly early in the game, and the player might not have 2 strong party members it can use for the battle. That being said, I'm wondering if I should make one of the Elite 4 a double battle when I get round to improving them. Kecleon for Flannery is cool! I can see it working and you're right, somebody does use one in her gym!! For tate and Liza, yeah I didn't want to mess with their whole levitate team with earthquake, replacing their team members would've made their strategy worse (I like Grumpig too) Lastly for Juan, Yeah Munja or shedinja in english, I honestly forgot to consider that, I'm glad every other gym leader has a lot of options for that pokemon but Juan is lacking a bit here. Making weather permanent in certain battles is a really cool idea, I'd be fine with that!
@@RoryTheFiend thank you for taking the time to reply ! I'm already excited to watch a "Fixing Hoenn Elite 4" video by you. And yes, a double battle on the Elite Four would be great, glad to (maybe) see it.
@@RoryTheFiend I mean, only the Champion has an even number of Pokemon on their team, so if anyone in the Elite Four challenge was going to be a Double Battle... Also better justifies Gym 7 only being 4 Pokemon a bit more. And for Wallace as Champion, at least that'd be a huge departure from the Water Gym being a singles battle.
Surprised no Milotic for Juan. That was one of the pokemon I always wished he had. A bulky water with Mirror Coat being legal through breeding would be a nice wall to place on the team.
Yeah basically I didn't want juan to use the same pokemon as the champions ace, though it can totally work since they have a mentor student relationship. just for me decided not to go that route
Honestly I'm working on an Emerald rom hack and alongside just making Pokemon better I also want to make the gym leaders are lot better (without being obnoxiously hard)... then again one of my ideas for Norman was a double battle with two Slakings so nevermind
Now that i am thinking of it, Juan should have given out Waterfall as his post defeat move gift because that is the point of thr game where you get it anyways and waterpulse is... embarrasing. But i guess GF did not want to break the TM gift convention this early
There's even fountains that sort of give the impression of water falls in his gym (also ice gym puzzle for a water type leader, interesting) If they were real they would've made a hydro pump tm
Idk if you throw Lileep at the player this early on tbh, it's got comparable bulk to Nosepass and there aren't many great options for dealing with it pre-Roxanne (especially with a level cap) Maybe Rhyhorn? Ik it's 4x weak to Grass/Water, but it's very threatening to basically anything else the player brings, tanks Fighting pretty well from combusken
I hear you, Lileep will definitely be a hurdle, the only thing against rhyhorn is that it functions very similarly to geodude, and in most cases will be outsped and one shot by either the mudkip line or the treecko line. Balancing a gym 1 rock leader is tricky
@@RoryTheFiend hear me out: I don't think a Pokemon being 4x weak to the starter in gym 1 is that big a deal. It's the player's introduction to type matchups and gym battles in general, trainers up until this point have been mainly using bug/normal/flying types and not much else, this SHOULD be the player's reward for being patient and picking the starter that has a generally rougher matchup against the initial couple trainers. Nosepass is already quite a shocker for the player if they've played gen 1 and were used to Brock, as it's a Rock type that handily walls the starter, for at least a little bit
I personally like the idea of giving the unevolved fossils representation in Rustboro Gym by having Hiker Marc and Youngster Tommy use them. (...Then change the gap in the wall above Tommy to being directly behind him instead, and have Youngster Josh facing upwards so you have a choice of a minimum of one Double Battle or three single battles required to face Roxanne. Feels kinda like a strategic choice for a Gym puzzle, fitting a honor student like Roxanne.) Roxanne could then have have Rhyhorn, Aron, Nosepass (and maybe use this as an excuse to replace Aggron on Steven Stone's team?). Or, something else she could use is a Corsola. She uses the Gen 1 fossils in her Rematch teams, so the typing combo would be right at home for her, and it's a Pokemon that doesn't get a lot of rep. ...Hmmm, Rhyhorn's HP is a bit too high for a non-ace if players spam physical moves (either due to being new or doing something like a mono-type run), and Corsola would still make a nice pairing to Aron being neutral to Grass, while walling Mudkip fairly well if level-capping. Torchic is already difficult choice for this gym anyway, so getting hit with Bubble wouldn't be the end of the world (without actually doing calcs, I estimate it's gotta be nearly even damage to Corsola using Rock Tomb on Torchic). On that note, also good for having a team that can all know Rock Tomb, since Lileep can't in Gen 3.
@@kemosonicfan123lbp I agree with that being fine if it's just a portion of the battle, which is why I kept Roxanne's geodude as her lead But hard mode to me anyway would signal the player doesn't need an introduction to type matchups, though for making sense in world I'm fine with her geodude sticking around on any difficulty
One thing that was always strange to me is how you go from Winona with five pokemons to Tate&Liza with four, but i guess it would be strange having five in a double or six becauseits only 7th gym know
I was wondering the same while making this video, I wouldn't have felt right reducing winona to 4 team members, and yeah giving tate and liza an odd number of pokemon doesn't make sense (and giving them 6 is a bit hardcore imo considering theyre already one of the tougher gyms)
oh nooooo lol thats because I originally gave camerupt a white herb, BUT when reviewing my edited video I was a little concerned that was a bit overkill having 3 white herb overheat evolved fire types SO just to be clear I was meant to say soft sand there, in fact I redid the commentary for camerupt but I guess I forgot to change the text in the script and read it without realising.
Hey Rory, can you make a video about fixing up the Kalos rivals and evil team’s team? Cause I’ve been working on rom hacking recently, and I think it’d be cool if I made a rom hack for x/y that adds ur gym leader and elite four changes into the game. But I feel the game would be funnier if I also had better evil team teams and rival teams
It's something I'm considering, the main issue with fixing rivals is in x and y theres a bunch more battles than in emerald (so my video would end up being really long and I bet people wouldn't want to watch all of it then)
Yup exactly this, I think the champions ace for a region should be a pokemon the player does not see on any other trainer. It gives a sense of unfamiliarity, and makes the champion stand out, they use pokemon nobody else does afterall. That being said, Juan and Wallace sharing a pokemon or 2 can make sense since they had a mentor and student relationship
I honestly had vibrava in mind, but bagon (or shelgon) would be cool additions considering it's lore. I wonder if it being on a flying type team would fill it with hope or jealousy
Hoenn has this issue where it feels like every gym is designed around having a single actually threatening pokemon and everything else is filler at worst and half ok support meant to make it slightly easier for the actually strong pokemon to sweep at best. Oh and then that actually "strong" pokemon half the time isn't even threatening anyways
The only exception I see is Emerald Tate and Liza where the entire team is relatively threatening, and if anything the actual "ace" pokemon feel like the filler to an extent, but still they're the rare actually good gym
It's kind of painful to see them with no coverage move like... Why doesn't anyone have at least one super effective move and use constant repeats??
Especially if you know what they have. 1st gym just requires the usual starter pick, 2nd is literally almost impossible to lose if you catch one pokemon located right in the cave you're encouraged to go to, and besides Watson and Tate & Liza? Knock Off, Protect/Dig, Ice Beam, and basically anything you own for Juan and you can sweep the gyms easily due to what you mentioned. Whether it's abusing truant or knocking off a white herb using Thick Fat, having one key strategy makes their "ace" not really threatening. I mean, Winona tries to DDance in front of enemies with a quad effective ice move; if the leaders did a more consistent team across all their pokemon (even with intentional set ups like weather setters) they'd be much more interesting fights
@@jayzell3687It's weird Emerald pushed Mawile to Victory Road but let you catch Sabeleye early
Each day we get closer to seeing Fixing Gen 5's gym leaders/elite 4. Them limiting the teams to 3-4 sucks so much
Gen 5 was also the first game in the franchise where being underleveled is almost impossible so they don't even have the saving grace of being potentially difficult due to level differences
My favourite generation as well, that is one of the few things that sucks to me about gen 5 is how limited they made the gym leaders and e4s teams.
I am generally a fan of the changes gen 5 made to the exp system, I think for me some gym leaders ended up being fairly tough (for pokemons standards) while others not so much
@@InsertFunnyThingHere also, Audino that prevents hours and hours of grinding whenever you catch a new Pokémon that happens to be underleveled
@@RoryTheFiendEw you like Gen 5? I think you should just use the BW2 PoxeDex even for base BW
My understanding of Winona’s team in most of the games is that it heavily relies on type advantages. You could easily defeat Swablu/Swellow with a rock type, but her all of her remaining Pokemon have a counter for rock types. If Tropius is out, you would likely switch to a fire type, but then she could send out her Pelliper to counter the fire type. Winona’s strategy for her whole team is pretty much sending out a Pokemon that could counter your typing and force you to switch out. They likely gave Altaria earthquake to counter any electric types if Pelliper was defeated by one.
yes i watched a lot of truegreen7
Possibly, it's an interesting idea anyway. But I'd air on the side of that being a coincidence since that's not really a trend we see consistently as you get later into the game. For example, glacia could use earthquake on glalie or walrein to counter her steel weakness but we don't see that.
And her altaria knows dragon dance to set up for the sweep way earlier then it should!
@@RoryTheFiend here's what we have in the emerald legacy
Roxanne: lileep anorith nosepass
Brawly 2: meditite makuhita breloom (breloom only has tackle bulk up(
Brawly 3: meditite breloom hariyama (breloom has a better set n so does hariyama)
Brawly 4: meditite machoke breloom hariyama (meditite has psychic n calm mind)
Also dark type coverage n darks physical meaning ghosts will struggle here
Wattson 2: electrike chinchou magneton
Wattson 3: chinchou plusle magneton manectric
Wattson does have ground counters with chinchou, hp grass on plusle n manectric bite
We will give chinchou aurora beam because we noticed grass sweeps this gym
Flannery 3: vulpix slugma numel torkoal
Flannery 4: vulpix magcargo camerupt torkoal (magcargo has both screens n flamethrower rock slide)
Norman: spinda linoone girafarig slaking (girafarig carries shadow ball n psybeam n calm mind)
We felt spinda n linoone were too iconic n vigoroth was redundant
Would have given him swellow or dodrio over linoone but Winona exists
Winona: swellow tropius skarmory pelipper n altaria
The pelipper has ice beam surf supersonic aerial ace
We gave skarmory drill peck
We liked tropius and altaria (dragon is physical so altaria is even scarier with aerial ace dragonbreath n earthquake ALL PHYSICAL)
@@RoryTheFiend phoebe has a massive stat overhaul because ghost is always special in our legacy games
We swapped banette n dusclops was given 80 special attack
We gave shendinja 70 base special attack for shadow ball
Added misdreavus n gengar to her team and sabeleye got a stat buff of 10 each
The other things I can't reveal to you
I feel that you cant have 1 of the hoenn fossils without having the other one.
Roark
Yeah, but he’s different. How can you compare him with Roxanne?
@@skibot9974 Roark has a Cranidos as a counterpart to his father's Bastiodon, to be fair.
And also, uour comparing the Sinnoh fossils to hoenn. I’m talking about the hoenn fossils, not Sinnoh, not kanto
@arrowblade_1238 Why would the Hoenn fossils have to be paired together, but not the Sinnoh fossils? If anything, the Hoenn fossils are one of the most distantly related pair of fossil mons in the series, while the Sinnoh fossils are the most closely related pair of fossil mons.
I feel like you should have kept Tate and Liza's Sunny Day strategy at least somewhat. It's meant to counter Surf spam and especially Swampert. I don't mind Solrock being changed to a physical attacker, but there was a reason for why they had it.
I'd say that light screen does the same job but better, especially with the calm minds and cosmic powers I don't think tate and liza are in short supply for tanking special attacks
disagree, surf is this teams biggest weakness by far and boosting strats are too slow to do anything about it effectively. light screen and grass coverage on xatu help but not really enough. sunny day and solarbeam solrock turns this team from being owned by swampert to potentially countering it pretty hard. even with the mediocre special attack it should be close to a one hit ko most of the time. its also quite thematic both to their pokemon and to gen 3 as a whole.
@@RoryTheFiend Half the Gym Leaders using Sunny Day kinda gets boring, so I can take it or leave it.
I mostly just feel like the Ancient Power hacks is way too iconic to the fight, and that having 100% accuracy is doubly important in a Double Battle, so it's even still better than Rock Slide without that secondary effect proc.
14:22 alternatively you could’ve given him a Chinchou or Lanturn (evolves at 27 which isn’t as ergigous as Magneton). It could have Water Pulse, Soark, Confuse Ray, and ice beam
I think Ice beam is a bit too strong, although it is a chinchou
If ur saying soak,
that move was introduced in gen 5.
Soark
@@jamtone4492 Spark
@@AznYunHou ah, ok. That makes sense.
A note on Gym 7’s pre-edit focus on Sunny Day. You note correctly that Solrock has “Sun-themed” moves but I think the inclusion of Sunny Day on it and especially Xatu is to make Water in general, and Rain Dance in particular, way less effective, since their aces are both very weak to Surf. By this point most players will have either a Swampert or some other Water type which will typically be running Surf, which is not only distributed widely but has good base power and targets both opponents in double battles.
That's what I'm saying taking solar beam and sunny day away just allows Swampert to curb stomp
11:00 ~ Fun Fact: It's actually possible to find wild Pokemon below their evolution level. (An example from the top of my head: There are places in FireRed where you can fish Seadra below lvl 30)
I believe the Power Plant also has underleveled 'Mons in it too.
The only underleveled mons I could find were Muk in Yellow only.
Sorry but you have to keep arm thrust on Makuhita as in gen 3 it was its signature move maybe that's why they gave it both arm thrust and vital throw it just fits the character more asw
To be honest never even realised Arm Thrust was their signature move, but yeah that's a valid reason to keep arm thrust then
No, it's not a valid reason
I continue to be impressed with how quickly you can put these videos together. Keep it up!
Thank you! I'm glad someone realises how time consuming these can be lol, theorycrafting the teams then scripting 10k words, recording commentary and editing where there's easily 10+ layers going on at once
Doing all that in my free time, ideally I could do it within one month but that'd definitely burn me out
So ATM chugging along with a video every month and a half seems fairly sustainable for me (might be good to sprinkle in some shorter video topic though)
44:23 Ah yes, Lanturn, my favorite water-ground type lol
Great video as always!
Noooooo I always let at least one slip through, one day tho I'll avoid making that mistake.
Thanks for the compliment tho lol
You really cooked with this one. Great job. I hope you do Generation 4 next. That's when I truly understood how Pokémon works. As Platinum was my first DS game.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Pearl was my first pokemon game so when I do gen 4 (platinum) I hope I can do it justice
Personally something I would had done is giving Flannery Magcargo. Like is not particulary powerful at that point of the game, but with sunny day its also not a load,and it allows Flannery to keep 4 mons
Magcargo would be an interesting addition, I didn't consider it purely because it evolves at the very late level of 38, and while Game Freak is no stranger to giving gym leaders underlevelled evolved pokemon, I personally want to avoid adding to that list.
But if it evolved at a reasonable level I could see myself giving her one.
@@RoryTheFiend illegal pokemon are world building! having earlier evolved pokemon/pokemon with illegal moves signals that the leaders or whoever else know more and have deeper expertise than you do, or have particularly talented pokemon, thus making the world larger and more complex than it would have been otherwise. movesets and evolution levels etc are abstractions of the players circumstances which should not be considered universal, as the world of pokemon is much more than whatever tiles we get to walk around on in the game in question.
@@RoryTheFiendI don’t see underlevelled pokemon as breaking the rules but rather world building. The only reason why levels exist are for gameplay reasons, they don’t exist within the pokemon world. Pokemon can evolve before or after their supposed level because it’s not a be all end all.
@@younghegelian1 Though, admittedly, Flannery is a newbie Gym Leader, so it could be argued that'd go against the lore excuse to do it.
I'd also argue Magcargo isn't as weak as it should be, as I can't think of any strong water pokemon/moves you'd have access to at that point, you don't get Surf until after Gym 5. Obviously still 4x weak to Ground type, but worth pondering
Removing Juan’s Whishcash is heartbreaking. Especially for a GenII Lanturn..
Taking away both of tate and liza's sunny days makes them severely vulnerable to just running double surf (esp with sharpedo as a support option)
Swampert smash!
Just the channel I needed! Keep up the great content
Thank you! More content on the way, I just wish I could make them quicker!
Bald Spinda caught me off guard 💀
Spinda pattern baldness is real :-(
Sinnoh needs this treatment the most I think, I mean good lord look at the electric gym. And the fire elite 4 flint. That’s what renegade platinum did right.
I mean you don't even need to look at renegade platinum. just regular platinum fixes them and he'd be improving the teams of those. it's more of an issue with diamond/pearl's dex. platinum's leaders are actually pretty competent
Yeah well the thing is, if I'm working within the confines of the diamond / Pearl dex then honestly I don't know how I could make Flints team more fire like, maybe a rotom--heat but that's it.
@@RoryTheFiend And Rotom Heat ain't even Fire type in Gen 4.
@@RoryTheFiendthat’s what makes it difficult lmao cuz game freak wasn’t diverse with the selection in the main dex
@@RoryTheFiendrotom isn't in the DP sinnoh dex
I was about to say "Why can't Manectric just get Ice Fang? Ice-type moves are special in this generation."
Then I remembered that the elemental fang moves came out in Gen 4.
Yeah pre gen 4 movesets were quite limited interestingly gen 4 manectric can learn flamethrower, still not sure why it can use that tbh
I feel like wigglytuff was probably the right decision but I think instead giving him a normal type from Johto like an Ursaring or Dunsparce could have been cool to tie that part of his background into the team.
I saw another comment suggest Girafarig to keep with the special based normal type.
I literally woke up today and thought "Girafarig for Norman would've worked!"
Ties back to johto AND counters fighting types decently, power of hindsight after I upload these videos always gets me.
Really love this video!! You’ve done a great job buddy can’t wait for the elite four fix when you’re ready to tackle them
Thank you! I appreciate the kind words, always get nervous over what the general audience will end up thinking, but it's always been positive.
Elite 4 video may be next, or may not be, considering whether I want to do a shorter simpler video to mix things up.
But I'm excited to tackle the elite 4, it'll be challenging considering how few ice and ghost types there are, but thats part of the fun
25:21 really good team but I was expecting you to use Griafirag since it’s part psychic type and can help fill the confusion role that Spinda was trying to do
I was considering it, but girafarig even though its in the region feels a bit foreign to me in hoenn, also since norman just moved here, might be a bit much to give him a lot of tools found in other parts of the region.
@@RoryTheFiend I mean, he did just move here for Johto... (accordign to RS and ORAS)
@@RoryTheFiend that’s exactly why you should have used it lol Norman moved from Johto the region that introduced Girafarig
@@nazeersadek6705 Yeah I woke up today and realised actually girafarig would totally work for norman
This might be one of the better fixing video so far
Thanks Nico I'm glad you think so!
Ehhh I dunno
Finally got to check up on this video!
Gotta say, I love it. I was really curious on how you’d improve Norman’s gym in particular. Wigglytuff was the last Pokémon I had in mind, but it makes sense with what you’re trying to do!
Great stuff as always! :)
Thank you Kake!
Well Wigglytuff in hindsight I think is a slight left field pick but I do try and combine both obvious and obscure choices.
Gives a good balance of familiarity and fresh feelingness to these fights I feel
Terrific content as always Rory.
Thought you did well to make the gym leaders harder given many of them were reputed for being tough already.
I wonder if given your use of Minun and Gorebyss you could potentially have a situation where leaders change their Pokémon based on which version you’re playing. For example Sapphire might see you battle Minun and Huntail whereas Ruby could see you battle Plusle and Gorebyss. Just an idea, lemme know what you think!
Can’t wait for the next video!
❤
I do remember he gave Wally a Huntail for the Fixing Rivals video.
Might have put Plusle on one of May's teams, but not sure on that one?
@@ShalakorThat’s a really good point I didn’t think about
Thank you sploosh! I think in general the different Pokémon versions should incorporate more differences than they currently do, so having more gym leader team changes depending on the version, even minor would be appreciated
An example of version differences I'd like to see would be routes and towns having different designs to them, which was seen in black and white 1/2 at least with I believe opelucid city
I think Aron makes more sense than Lileep for Roxanne. Also, the plural of Synthesis is Syntheses. And Brick Break is found in Mossdeep, not Sootopolis.
Yeah aron can work for Roxanne 100%!
Nah brick break is found in sootopolis, maybe you're thinking of the Dynamic Punch tutor that is found in Mossdeep?
@@RoryTheFiend Huh, I guess I'm misremembering Brick Break. Just checked Bulbapedia and you're right.
@@nesradub360it's found in sootopolis in ruby tho
The problem I have with Roxanne is that she's close to a cave where no Geodude can be found, not even with Rock Smash.
The whismurs drove all the geududes out with their painfully loud crying
I hear you. Honestly I’d just swap out the Geodude with Anorith for the same reason Lileep is on the team.
Brock had an Onix despite them not being found until Rock Tunnel, you realize Gym Leaders probably search around and breed their Pokemon right?
Another idea for Juan: Clamperl holding a Deep Sea Tooth. Holding a Deep Sea Tooth doubles Clamperl's special attack.
Clamperl has a Special Attack of 74 while Huntail and Gorebyss have 94 and 114 respectively.
So Deep Sea Tooth Clamperl hits much harder.
while true, its also a clamperl. its slow and wont live a single super effective hit, so as funny as it would be it wouldn't really fit tbh, especially for the 8th gym
Kinda agree with both here, I'm not above putting a memey pick on a team, but yeah in this case I'd side towards it being a bit too ineffective on a hard mode where people should know what they're doing.
Very nice video with some nice teams again, I rly liked the ninjask on Winonas team! Hoenn is my absolute favorite region, therefore he is my take on that topic without lvls.
For Roxanne
Aron
Ability: Sturdy
- Headbutt
- Rock Tomb
- Mud-Slap
Anorith
Ability: Battle Armor
- Cut
- Rock Tomb
- Harden
Nosepass
Ability: Sturdy
- Tackle
- Harden
- Rock Tomb
- Block
Lileep @ Oran Berry
Ability: Suction Cups
- Bullet Seed
- Constrict
- Acid
- Ancient Power
Brawly
Machop
Ability: Guts
- Bulk Up
- Karate Chop
- Focus Energy
- Substitute
Meditite
Ability: Pure Power
- Bulk Up
- Light Screen
- Shadow Ball
- Brick Break
Makuhita @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
- Fake Out
- Bulk Up
- Arm Thrust
- Rock Tomb
Breloom @ Black Belt
Ability: Effect Spore
- Bullet Seed
- Headbutt
- Mach Punch
- Bulk Up
For Watson its a double battle. I mean Minun and Plusle are THE figurehead of the newly added double battle mechanic, that they desrve more then a few unmarkable appearance without any good feature. So here we go:
Minun
Ability: Minus
- Thunder Wave
- Light Screen
- Metronome
- Shock Wave
Plusle
Ability: Plus
- Thunder Wave
- Shock Wave
- Swift
- Spark
Lanturn
Ability: Volt Absorb
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shock Wave
- Surf
- Confuse Ray
- Ice Beam
Manectric @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Static
- Spark
- Howl
- Quick Attack
- Body Slam
Adding a bit of difficulty after the third badge.
Numel
Ability: Oblivious
- Body Slam
- Sunny Day
- Overheat
- Magnitude
Camerupt
Ability: Magma Armor
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower
- Rock Slide
- Sunny Day
Magcargo
Ability: Flame Body
- Sunny Day
- Rock Slide
- Light Screen
- Overheat
Ninetales @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sunny Day
- Quick Attack
Torkoal (F) @ White Herb
Ability: White Smoke
- Curse
- Body Slam
- Overheat
- Attract
For Norman its the same. kecleon is unique and cool (obv bad) but it should get more screentime aswell.
Zangoose @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Immunity
- Facade
- Swords Dance
- Quick Attack
- Rock Slide
Spinda
Ability: Own Tempo
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
Kecleon
Ability: Color Change
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Blizzard
- Thunder
- Thunder Wave
Vigoroth @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Vital Spirit
- Facade
- Bulk Up
- Shadow Ball
- Slack Off
Linoone @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pickup
- Belly Drum
- Substitute
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Ball
Slaking @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Truant
- Shadow Ball
- Hyper Beam
- Earthquake
- Brick Break
And if anyone want ot read the rest of Hoenn, here ya go with Winona, which will use hidden power since she knows that old lady aswell.
Skarmory
Ability: Keen Eye
- Spikes
- Aerial Ace
- Steel Wing
- Hidden Power [Ground]
Pelipper
Ability: Keen Eye
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Shock Wave
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Flygon
Ability: Levitate
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Rock Slide
- Fly
Swellow
Ability: Guts
- Aerial Ace
- Return
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Quick Attack
Tropius @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Chlorophyll
- Aerial Ace
- Solar Beam
- Synthesis
- Sunny Day
Altaria @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
- Dragon Breath
Tate and Liza got a better teams for doubles and a gift Metagross from Steven.
Claydol
Ability: Levitate
- Earthquake
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Explosion
Gardevoir
Ability: Trace
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Icy Wind
- Light Screen
- Psychic
Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Sludge Bomb
Grumpig @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Icy Wind
- Calm Mind
- Rest
Solrock @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
- Rock Slide
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Sunny Day
Lunatone @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
IVs: 3 Atk / 30 SpA
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
Since I like Steven as a champ more then Wallace he returns as 8th gym leader with a strong water team
Wailord @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
- Rest
- Curse
Walrein @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Rest
Ludicolo
Ability: Swift Swim
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rain Dance
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Giga Drain
Relicanth
Ability: Swift Swim
- Earthquake
- Body Slam
- Ancient Power
- Hidden Power [Flying]
Whiscash
Ability: Oblivious
- Earthquake
- Water Pulse
- Future Sight
- Rain Dance
Kingdra @ Lum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Dragon Breath
- Hidden Power [Grass]
I really wished you increased Winona’s Levels more since the amount of trainers you CAN fight could make you overleveled imo. I’d do LV 35, 1 LV below the Final Evo Starters
That's fair, tbh Gym 6 is fairly open ended when you do it, since you can go all the way through to lilycove, mt pyre etc etc
So I found it hard to pin point an exact level she should be. But I do think in general her team showed a large amount of improvement considering how low levelled her non Altaria team members were in the base game.
The lad has spoken!
Loved the little edits in this one, they were really fun :D
Yoo thanks big dog, I'm glad you liked them :)
love this, very good job fixing they team, although i would loved even more with it was in a gen 3 remake, like ORAS. We could use some mega evolution, have a more variety of pokemons, abilities and a better physical/special split, another thing that i would, pernonally, would swap vigoroth with linoone, give it a flame orb to swellow and remove pelipper from winona team because yes, it will die(especially in the remakes), and will also make only the last gym to have 5 pokemons
keep in mind that this is only my choice, i don't dislike the choices here and i absolutely love your videos
Thank you, and solid suggestions. I mean I may possibly do a fixing ORAS video in the future.
Though I'm yet to play the games (will be playing them soon) the amount of flexibility in movesets and held items in gen 6 over gen 3 would be great fun to theorycraft with.
(Also I can tell everyone my fun fact that they ruined the trainers IVs in ORAS)
@@RoryTheFiend well let's be honest, we all know that this was the last decent game game freak would provide to us, i mean, look at the battle frontier, do you see it?
Sure, they try to cook something with violet but run out of gas and ingredients, anyway, thanks to check up my comment. Love you work
@@irritatorgoner1087 Personally I think game freak did good on gen 5, and then it sort of got worse and worse, but I definitely think gen 3 is one of the best pokemon games out there. Also no problem sorry for the late response, I appreciate the kind words and hope I can keep making vids people find worth watching!
Another 🔥 video, Rory. Can't wait to try this out in a rom hack 😉
Great video as always, Tate and Liza remind me of other twin Pokémon fans x
Appreciate that one Laz, and hmm wonder who those twins could be
I like the idea of giving Wattson a Zigzagoon with Surf-Shock Wave-Headbutt-Charm to deal with Ground types, especially since he had to go to New Mauville at some point in his life and there's not a single floating device near Mauville. Charm is an egg move from Pikachu and there's an NPC at the beach south of Slateport that gives the information about Zigzagoon learning Surf, so it still makes sense thematically at that point in the game while giving tons of coverage and showing that movesets can be extremely varied, even on a Pokémon like Zigzagoon
31:39 really love the addition of Ninjask here
I am biased afterall, in an upcoming video I'll probably have the Ninjask drawing wizz around the background intro, like how for this video I had linoone chilling in the corner.
But yeah Ninjask is a fun pokemon, give it a turn or 2 and it could easily snowball
The easiest buff to Winona is taking Ice Beam away as an option before her again XD
force people to play the game corner for 20 hours to get their ice beam tm before her
@@RoryTheFiend Lock the game corner too! 😈
Only one gym in and already loving your thought process with these changes. I was thinking of Lileep too!
Thank you! I'm sure you'll have a handful of things you disagree with me on (tthough idm if u just agree with it all lol), but that's the beauty of this sort of content, I get to hear everyones thoughts and differences on what could work.
Lileep is just great since it gets grass and posion attacks for the two starters that wreck rock, water and grass, a logical pick and a bonus that the secondary grass typing makes it take neutral from all 3 starter attacks. Honestly, in my mind, it just makes total sense
@@RoryTheFiend I agreed with most things, but for those who want to keep a pure-water theme on Jaun, I'd say Tentacruel instead of Masquerain.
Counters grass still, Sludgebomb for more physical damage on the team (and more dmg than masq's Ice Beams), Haze for anti setup, good bulk and bst, and Toxic to whittle anyone down (especially confused or going into Kingrda).
Personally, I like the e4 to have type exceptions, while the gym-leaders stay pure. But that's just me!
@@Kmn483 Tentacruel would be a solid choice, as long as it can counter grass types then that really helps to round out Juans team.
I'm a sucker for adding in pokemon that aren't the gyms type but still work thematically, despite having some people very much annoyed at me choosing to do so lol.
Ive been hyped for this video all week man, great job! 😁 I think that the teams you remade are pretty much all good, though i do think that Vigoroth on Norman's team should be replaced by a Zangoose, a much stronger mon, as well as maybe replacing Wigglytuff with Exploud. and i wished Relicanth wouldve been used on either the Rock or Water gyms, as it hardly gets any representation in its native region, as far as i know. Other than that, a pretty great watch. Keep it up. 😁👍
Thank you I'm glad you enjoyed it! The reason why I didn't give Norman a zangoose is basically because, to me, his signature evolution line is the slakoth line so I wanted vigoroth and slaking on his team, but zangoose does fit for sure and is a great pokemon.
For Relicanth, that's a good shout, I'd honestly consider myself a bigger relicanth fan than most but I suppose I just felt it didn't fit Juan's aesthetic and for roxanne it's be too strong.
That being said, I'll definitely consider it for when I look into the hoenns elite 4, as It could potentially work for wallace or even Steven, and Glacia if you really stretch it.
"First up is Spind-"
Bald. Bald. Bald. My eyes!!
Quite literally pattern baldness (thank Pokemon Database for using a sprite of Spinda with no spots)
If only Game Freak had more time to have more Pokémon Emerald content in the Generation 3 remakes. Imagine Juan and the Battle Frontier trainers with Mega Evolution?
I'm still yet to play ORAS (will be playing it soon) but yeah I'm sad things like the Battle Frontier isn't a thing in them.
In general I wish the pokemon remakes focused on the 3rd version to remake, it makes sense in every way except you cant sell two versions of the game to make more money.
I felt that Wally should have been the first ever gym leader to have a double battle. Starting off with both Plusle and Minun to activate their abilities. The rest are the same.
It's an interesting idea for sure, a lot of other people feel the same. I wouldn't mind it, but if we made him a double battle I'd probably change the several trainers in the previous route that double battle with plusle and minun
Well, for Roxanne, why the Magnet Pull ability on Nosepass? You can’t get a Steel-type until after the gym. You didn’t even include that ability in the new team composition; it still shows Sturdy.
For Flannery, why not give the Ninetales Hidden Power Grass? That would discourage Swampert sweeping the team. Magcargo could also work as a 4th team member.
For Juan, replacing the Whiscash for Masquerain leaves a problem: There’s no way to hit Electric types such as Manetric and Electrode super-effectively, as the only Pokémon with Earthquake on the original team was removed. I’d say the bring back the Whiscash with Earthquake, or maybe bring a Physical attacking Water type with some kind of Ground type attack.
For Nosepass, would Sturdy have been any better? You can't get any one hit k.o. moves that early to my knowledge, and that's the only thing Sturdy stops until it gets reworked in Gen 5.
As for showing it on the new team comp, that was probably an oversight in presentation.
These sound really cool choices
Glad you liked it!
@@RoryTheFiend Gen 3 I already feel plenty nostalgia for, so its nice seeing these creative new teams.
I have been confused by Masquerain gaining Flying type in exchange for Surskit's Water type. _Rain_ is in the name. Looking at the original Japanese, there are 2 water themed word plays in the name. Water is Masquerain's thing. Bug/Flying is a type combo that is far too common for this travesty.
*Make the **_rain_** Water!*
No thief.
Thief is PERMANENT in gen 3
You mentioned doing a game with a lunatone at some point and I highly recommend it, I have a lunatone that’s on my champion team, he was actually one of my only Pokémon with coverage moves and not just moves that match the Pokémon types
Yeah I'll be playing through ORAS soon, and I'm 100% using Lunatone, a cool dual type and nice coverage moves
I recall it can learn ice beam from tm and moonblast if I go to the move tutor. So I'm hoping it'll be an unexpected mvp of my future playthrough.
Please fix the 2peats in E4. I made a suggestion when you made a community post that Glacia's interaction texts point to her moving back to Hoeen to particularly hone her "icy skills/ icy moves" so she could be part a 2nd speciality that learn the ice type moves like ice punch, icy wind etc
I definitely want to avoid repeating pokemon where possible, so if glacia is primarily focused on icy skills and moves then for sure I can look into non ice pokemon that can learn ice moves.
Normal / Water types probably are the best for that
@@RoryTheFiend i put mons like Grumpig with icy wind (thick fat also works thematically) and alakazam with 3 elemental punches on her squad when brainstorming, both mons are completely overlooked in the dex
I like what you did with the gym leaders. I do have a couple of suggestions
Flannery
Make either Camerupt or Torkoal male so that one of them can attract the player's female Pokémon.
Norman
Swap out Vigoroth for Girafarig. Norman is originally from Johto so this would be a cool example of gameplay and story integration. Girafarig's Psychic will catch many players by surprise who are hoping to sweep with Fighting types. Alternatively, Girafarig can Baton Pass a Calm Mind boost to Wigglytuff.
Winona
Have Winona lead with Skarmory and give him a Sitrus Berry. This will allow Skarmory to lay more spikes sooner which will start having a huge impact in the late game.
Juan
Have him lead with Crawdaunt and give him a Focus Band. If Crawdaunt can knock off the player's Pokemon held item early, it could be a major hurdle to the player. I was also thinking about swapping out Water Pulse for Hidden Power Ground. Hidden Power Ground would certainly help against any Electric types that the player will likely bring.
Solid suggestions, for flannery yeah I usually don't bother to specify if they're male or female, but I totally agree that they should have different genders
For norman yeah I agree with that, girafarig is great for fighting and makes sense with his Johto origins
With Winona I think that's a good idea as well, but I sometimes like to avoid leading with a top tier Pokémon as well informed players will just lead with their best counter matchup, so hoping this gives skarmory a slightly better opening to set up spikes later down the line
With Juan, again another fair suggestion, leading into knock off is great to get the item loss benefit from the get go
Thank you for your comment a lot of well thought out ideas that I think have good merit to them!
This is a really cool video. Although, maybe I could switch out Swellow with Girafarig as a reference to Norman being originally from Johto. Still helps out against the fighting types too, thanks to its dual psychic typing.
Girafarig is a really good suggestion, I'll be honest I woke up the day after I uploaded and "girafarig!" sprung to my mind as well haha.
Always at least a little bit of hindsight after I upload these, but hey just giving the commentars a chance to shine with their suggestions
I think they did actually nerf winona from ruby and sapphire to emerald.
Her ruby sapphire team was incredible with a lead swellow (a scary speedy threat who punishes status inflictions), a bulky pelliper who would confuse you and takes on those rock types and is neutral to ice as well, a bulky skarmory who is also neutral to ice hits ice types hard (you won’t have them), but it also hits rock hard making electric ideal for the first 3 members but then the game punishes electric with that boss altaria. They probably decided to swap swellow for a swablu and tropius to have something slower and less immediately scary to fight because I know ruby and sapphire winona was a huge spike in difficulty
the nujabes reference is amazing
Most of these I agree with, but I'm surprised you left Water Pulse on crawdaunt. It already has Crabhammer... Maybe Sludge Bomb for grasses or Body Slam if you want to keep neutral damage + status?
Well I basically wanted to keep juan with a significant amount of representation of his tm, sludge bomb came to mind to deal with grass types though, that'd be what I'd replace over water pulse
Only thing I'm not sure I'd like is changing Sunny Day on Xatu, yeah Tate and Liza's pokemon don't have the best moves to take advantage of that, but I think the big thing Sunny Day prevents especially in gen 3 is surf spam on the part of the player, which is an incredibly easy strat since in gen 3 surf doesn't hurt your allies, AND 3 out of 4 of their pokemon are weak to water, Sunny Day cuts the power of that strategy way down and can even make it unviable, I've often seen nuzlocke players going in with this as their strategy for Tate and Liza get thwarted by Xatu using Sunny Day early in the match before they can focus down Claydol
Tbh, I always thought Masquerain was water/bug when I was younger, because it evolved from Surskit. So Juan having one wouldn’t have raised an eyebrow for younger me.
Worth noting that Ghost is physical in Gen 3, so Meditite having HP-Ghost is actually pretty strong.
I do however have to admit that you _might_ be overbuffing some of the Gym Leaders, particularly the early ones. While yes, those games aren't exactly the hardest, but you shouldn't go too far in the other direction. You have to consider what Pokemon and moves the player will have at that point and not just in a "how do I make sure the gym leader doesn't get completely walled by this" way. You don't want to make the bosses too challenging. I mean, Smith's Emerald Legacy had to give Roxanne's Anorith just Scratch and Harden, no Rock STAB, and that's _with_ buffing Pokemon movesets and availability, which you don't do in your videos.
Holacalaca in the comments put it way better, so read their comment and keep that in mind for future videos.
If only the writers of the Pokémon Generation 3 anime back then give the Hoenn Regional Gym Leaders your version of their team. This is truly fantastic.
I think for roxanne you lower her team composition to two pokemon and have her be a version exclusive fight so...
Ruby- Anorith and Nosepass
Sapphire -Lileep and Nosepass
Emerald - all 3
That's a good idea! pokemon changing boss fights depending on the two versions is always nice to see
Love these changes, I really want to play a version of emerald with this and the hoenn rival fixes.
Thank you! A version may become accessible some day, I already have gen 1/2/6 ROMs edited based on my videos in my discord server
Tate and Liza's sol rock knowing sunny day and solar beam is to mess with swampert surf spammers. The new team just made it easier for swampert to rip and tear
I feel like removing Counter from Slaking is a mistake. It makes it far easier to strategize around it.
Personally, I might take a cue from the RS Norman fight, and go with Facade/Yawn/Counter/Focus Punch. Punished if you attack, punished if you don't. Plus, the Dark coverage doesn't help much, imo, especially since he has it elsewhere on the team.
I mostly like the changes but i do have one criticism you are keeping/adding moves such as double team and Attract and not as bad but still a problem 55% status moves yes they make it harder but not in a good way as it makes the game way less fun and frustrating.
when it comes to difficulty in a game if you want to do it right you need to keep in mind fun you want the difficulty to add to the experience and only thing the moves i mentioned early do is add Annoyance and frustration.
Tldr moves such as evasion boosting moves,accuracy lowering moves and Attract dont make good difficulty that adds to the experience instead it hurts the experience.
It Makuhita getting Thunderpunch possibly a slight reference to Iron Hands? Since Iron Hands is a Hariyama looking Paradox mon that is part electric type, this almost sounds like that was chosen like that on purpose
More mons with grass typing or grass moves would help balance hoenne to keep mudkip from soloing everytime
Fossils for Roxanne. Breloom for brawly. Solar beam for flannery etc.
I see your point, but Breloom on the 2nd gym could be very hard, especially if it has a Sableye counter move. I mean, even Misty's Starmie only had Bubblebeam or Water Pulse and it was already difficult if unprepared, but i believe a Bulk Up - Fighting move Breloom combo would be even more difficult... What do you think ?
Edit : i forgot about Tailow, well, you can actually counter it hard, nevermind
Agreed, in general I've tried to add more grass types / grass type moves where possible (especially in my Fixing Hoenn's Rivals videos)
With Breloom for Brawly, that'd be good if it wasn't for the fact you can't evolve Shroomish until level 23, while Game Freak is totally fine with giving Gym Leaders underlevelled fully evolved Pokemon, for me personally I'd like to avoid doing that.
And with Solar beam for Flannery, the only fire pokemon that can learn Solar beam are ones not found in the region (Ponyta and Houndour)
The limited pokemon and learnsets made this quite harder to counter the Mudkip line
@@AlexBelte3002Assuming that the base powers of every attacking move stays the same as in the base game, you can just give Breloom Rock Smash and Bullet Seed, as for the former it's only 20BP, while the latter it hits 2-5 times, with each hit only doing 10 BP Damage it. So you definitely could have Breloom as an ace for Brawly that's not too overwhelming.
Rory's Rivals video did give a Breloom to Wally.
@@shovanrahman1111 i agree.
Norman my favorite gym leader ever he is the reason i even started watching pokemon
Norman is great! I love normal types and he has a cool design
Some other choices:
Machop learns Rock Tomb
Meditite learns Confusion (fighting type moves on this mon are awful, lol)
Makuhita learns Feint Attack
--
Minun learns Charm
--
Much of Flannery's team learns Solar Beam
--
Skarmory learns Curse
--
Honestly, it feels like a shame not to give Winona back her Swellow, since she had one in Ruby/Sapphire and I consider its appearance in the anime fairly iconic. It's the first time I remember them using a shiny, anyways.
Also, Ancient Power technically hits harder - like a lot harder - than Rock Slide since gen 3 halves the damage of all moves that hit both targets in a double battle. Not to say Rock Slide isn't good, it's just something to consider. Especially on Claydoll, whose mediocre defenses make the omni boost one of the biggest threats with this pokemon.
Ash’s Noctowl was shiny.
In hindsight yeah I can agree to Minun using charm
and flannery's team does not learn solarbeam, not in gen 3 anyway, it's only entei ho-oh ponyta line and houndour line
For winona with Swellow, yeah I mean I've got no problems with her using one, as you say it is iconic in the anime.
For tate and liza, yeah the rock slide damage reduction is a shame but I feel it strikes a good balance with claydol showing off spread moves and xatu focus firing calm mind boosted attacks.
@@RoryTheFiend Hot damn. Shows how much I use gen 3 sun. Good catch!
@@beaky8138 easy to mistake as solar beam starts becoming more common on fire types in gen 4 onward
Never thought of this but it feels a bit weird that someone that just moved from the Johto region has no Johto Pokémon and is able to have a full set of Pokémon from a region you’re not even from. Wigglytuff does help with that at least.
I think, Zangoose is much more fiting mon in Norman's team, because his team concists of pure Normals. For the moves: Swords Dance, Facade, Brick Break and Shadow Ball for coverage
I loved the changes and I'm eagerly awaiting the changes in the elite 4, but I just didn't understand why leaving Flannery's 3 pokes with Sunny Day, they could have at least taken them out of Camerupt and put something more interesting, maybe an iron tail or something like that.
Thank you! Not sure it'll be my next video but I've been brainstorming some team ideas for the elite 4
For flannery teamn I think I just wanted to maximise the odds that the ai will set up the sun, as they can be unpredictable with what they choose, but swapping out sunny day for iron tail would be a good option i think
For the Solrock, i think the Sunny Day + Solarbeam combo is the only real gym leader threat against the Mudkip line. Would've suggested that on another pokemon that uses Special stat, though.
You're right in that it is great against swampert, so giving the xatu giga drain with it's far better special attacking stat is meant to compensate for that, while giving their whole team general improvements
While Numel & Slugma aren't gr8, I'd still keep either 1 cuz fun fact she's actually the last 4th gym leader to carry 4 Pokemon (up until Gen8), tho not as a lead since they could give player easy chances to set up in some way. Unlike the games, her anime Slugma had Yawn, so that could be helpful for her if it lives a hit. An exp fodder that can occasionally do things (like Roxanne's 2nd Geodude) at best & a liability at worst.
I agree with your team for Flannery, but since all her Pokémon would have sunny day, I would give someone Solar beam and or weather ball
Great suggestions! Unfortunately in gen 3 weatherball and solarbeam was really limited in distribution and isn't really possible. For the remakes though? It'd be an awesome addition
It looks like lantern is trying to get away from the magnet XD
I think slaking can use the truant turn to setup battle items, to avoid losing a turn and it fits well with the gym theme.
If it were in other gens I'd give a slaking eject pack with giga impact. then use yawn and make the AI to switch after using a move with slaking
That'd be great if the AI knew how to work around Truant.
Tbh I kinda hope they buff traunt, maybe make it so every turn they're not attacking they get heal a % of their max hp (since the pokemon is basically just lounging around for that turn)
Personally I would replace thunder punch on makuhita with rock throw or something of the sort. Fighting types for some reason always have the ability to use rock moves. And would provide the same coverage against birds and sableye, draw on his physical attack rather than special, AND provide coverage against what I believe is his ACTUAL main weakness (aside from sableye), bugs. Both Beautifly abs dustox quad resist fighting and pack super effective moves against him, plus have the stats of a fully evolved mon at these low levels. Either one of them can roll through brawly easier than guts Tailow.
Rock Tomb would work better for it, due to Makuhita being slow.
@@shovanrahman1111 true, but rock tomb is usually a tm move (in fact it's Roxanne's tm move), so I wouldn't want to give a gym leader a tm move that's not their tm, and especially not ANOTHER gym leaders tm.
Basically this: was conflicted as rock tomb is obviously better but it is Roxanne's TM and she's the gym right before brawly.
Would've felt a bit odd to me, but yeah I agree rock tomb would be a great move for makuhita
Are you going to fix the Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire gym leaders as well since you did Pokemon Emerald's gym leaders
I'm editing my gym leaders, what do yall think of this for Roxanne?
Geodude lvl 20, Sturdy, Holding Citrus berry with Rollout, Defense curl, Rock tomb and Rock throw
Nosepass lvl 20 holding a hard stone with Sand force ability with Thunder wave, Harden, Rock tomb and Sandstorm
Cranidos lvl 22 holding a rocky helmet Scary face, Headbutt, Take down and Rock tomb
I took your idea of adding Lileep since she had it in the comics and all.
Lileep lvl 23 holding hard stone, storm drain ability. with Acid, Ancient power, Ingrain and Rock tomb
*sees Swellow in Norman's team; emits a fanboy scream* Yes, I am a huge Swellow fan. It became a powerhouse in my ΩR team as well... But Wing Attack? Seriously? Aerial Ace is much more intimidating: a STAB, high-power, never miss move. With Guts, it even (for me) rivals Facade as a "if status'd" move. Focus Energy is interesting, and Steel Wing with its chance of +1 Defense would be my personal TM pick.
Do not like Norman’s team swallow is already a Pokémon from winnona and wigglytuff? Do you know exploud?? It would be a better option. Take swallow and put zangoose
you were kinda cooking with huge power double edge Azurill not gonna lie, give it a choice scarf and it could go crazy (it might do like half damage to one Pokemon before getting one shot)
shame choice scarf isn't a thing in gen 3, but yeah to be honest, I'm a fan of giving gym leaders weak pokemon but minmaxing them as much as possible so they can keep up with evolved pokemon.
If you've seen my fixing kalos gym leaders video I did that for gym 3 and 4
@@RoryTheFiend I never actually knew choice scarf wasn’t in gen 3, always thought it was introduced at the same time as the other choice items
This came up in my feed again and the comments about the first gym being weak to 2 of the stayers is interesting. The game scaffolds the challenge for the players so the first gym is all about players knowing how the gym works and what its relevance is to the game. Black and White were far better in terms of challenge for the first few gyms though.
I think you overlooked the utility of Sunny Day in the Psychic gym. Three of their four Pokémon are week to water, so this use of weather is actually one of the only times Emerald cucks Swampert.
I don't think it's needed considering we have light screen, calm mind, cosmic power that can apply a universal barrier against special attacks instead of weakening water attacks at the cost of being weaker to fire.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but why should Tate & Liza be the only gym that specializes in doubles? I think it’d be an interesting idea for Watson to be a double battle, have him start with plusle and minun and then a magneton and manectric. I think it’s a neat idea to consider for these hypotheticals haha
Yeah for being a new mechanic introduced in this Gen double battles are oddly underused, specially in the original ruby and sapphire.
I mean to be fair the entirety of pokemon seems oddly against using double battles most of the time despite double battles being their main competitive format they want to use and double battles also being pretty good at hiding how terrible the AI is.
I've seen a few people comment that wattson should be a doubles guy, which to be honest, I can see it. My only hesitation is making it as early as gym 3. That being said, do you think any e4 should be a doubles battle? at the moment, just off the top of my head I'm leaning towards the idea of Drake with kingdra surf and earthquake on his flying/levitating mons, maybe potential for that to work.
My assumption would be they were hesitant to deviate from the standard single battle formula much, so just sprinkled it into 1 gym fight, some random trainers and the steven at the mossdeep space centre.
As someone that's not too into doubles I never minded it, but I can definitely see how others would wish that they utilised it more for their first game to include them.
@@RoryTheFiend yeah I remember seeing a huge difference going from emerald to Ruby/sapphire and thinking “dang where are all the double battles??” lol. I think it’d be interesting to see in one of these Pokémon hacks, especially to make a decent use with plusle and minun considering every NPC doesn’t know how and just spams helping hand lol
@@RoryTheFiend sounds like another video idea, “what if every gym leader/e4 member were double battles?” Like it were Colosseum 👀
All right here we are, Hoenn Gym Leaders ! That was, once again, a great video, with pretty good points. Here's how i would update this, considering it's a challenge mode :
1) Replacing Geodude with the other fossile Anorith, and making this gym a permanent sandstorm gym. Giving a big advantage to her rock team.
2) It's actually... perfect ! 👌
3) Making it a double battle ! I always find it weird that a region that represents the very beggining of the double battles only has... One gym battle with doubles. Considering his experience i believe Wattson should be a double battle expert, replacing IMO the Voltorb with Illumise or Volbeat : they are insect types so they resist ground type moves, and can learn double battle moves and Shock Wave.
4) Just to round her team up i would give her a Kecleon (reptile so he likes heat, and a guy in her gym uses one), with Flamethrower and maybe HP Grass..., and making this gym a permanent Sun gym, making it much harder if unprepared.
5) It's good 👍 replacing Wigglytuff with a mix attacker Linoone with a bellydrum - facade combo, and boltbeam coverage. Only Munja could block it but it's very unlikely, so IMO a much more dangerous option than Wigglytuff
6) Pretty great choices ! Not having Swellow did not affect her team quality, good job pal !
7) Nothing to say, as much as i like Grumpig, it doesn't fit the "levy-tate" theme of this gym so...
8) I've one word to say : Munja ! The only counter is Crawdunt with Knock Off... But it's not easy to think around Munja like anyone would use it, i know. And btw : make it a permanent rain gym to up the difficulty. At this point you can sandstorm, sunny day, or hail it back so it's not *that much* of a threat if you're prepared properly.
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Wattson being a double battle is an interesting idea, I considered it, but decided against it purely because it's still fairly early in the game, and the player might not have 2 strong party members it can use for the battle.
That being said, I'm wondering if I should make one of the Elite 4 a double battle when I get round to improving them.
Kecleon for Flannery is cool! I can see it working and you're right, somebody does use one in her gym!!
For tate and Liza, yeah I didn't want to mess with their whole levitate team with earthquake, replacing their team members would've made their strategy worse (I like Grumpig too)
Lastly for Juan, Yeah Munja or shedinja in english, I honestly forgot to consider that, I'm glad every other gym leader has a lot of options for that pokemon but Juan is lacking a bit here.
Making weather permanent in certain battles is a really cool idea, I'd be fine with that!
@@RoryTheFiend thank you for taking the time to reply ! I'm already excited to watch a "Fixing Hoenn Elite 4" video by you. And yes, a double battle on the Elite Four would be great, glad to (maybe) see it.
@@RoryTheFiend I mean, only the Champion has an even number of Pokemon on their team, so if anyone in the Elite Four challenge was going to be a Double Battle... Also better justifies Gym 7 only being 4 Pokemon a bit more.
And for Wallace as Champion, at least that'd be a huge departure from the Water Gym being a singles battle.
why would you give nosepass magnet pull? there's no steel types you can get until you get to Dewford
Kinda surprised you didn't use Loudred instead of Wigglytuff since it has a similar learnset, but it's from hoenn.
Surprised no Milotic for Juan. That was one of the pokemon I always wished he had. A bulky water with Mirror Coat being legal through breeding would be a nice wall to place on the team.
I don't think he needs one, as I'd say it's more associated with Wallace than Juan, as it's pretty much his Ace.
@@shovanrahman1111 Yeah, that's right. I actually forgot about that. I often think of Steven when it comes to Gen 3 champ.
Yeah basically I didn't want juan to use the same pokemon as the champions ace, though it can totally work since they have a mentor student relationship. just for me decided not to go that route
Ladies and gentlemen, we are so back.
Honestly I'm working on an Emerald rom hack and alongside just making Pokemon better I also want to make the gym leaders are lot better (without being obnoxiously hard)... then again one of my ideas for Norman was a double battle with two Slakings so nevermind
Now that i am thinking of it, Juan should have given out Waterfall as his post defeat move gift because that is the point of thr game where you get it anyways and waterpulse is... embarrasing. But i guess GF did not want to break the TM gift convention this early
There's even fountains that sort of give the impression of water falls in his gym (also ice gym puzzle for a water type leader, interesting) If they were real they would've made a hydro pump tm
Idk if you throw Lileep at the player this early on tbh, it's got comparable bulk to Nosepass and there aren't many great options for dealing with it pre-Roxanne (especially with a level cap)
Maybe Rhyhorn? Ik it's 4x weak to Grass/Water, but it's very threatening to basically anything else the player brings, tanks Fighting pretty well from combusken
I hear you, Lileep will definitely be a hurdle, the only thing against rhyhorn is that it functions very similarly to geodude, and in most cases will be outsped and one shot by either the mudkip line or the treecko line.
Balancing a gym 1 rock leader is tricky
@@RoryTheFiend hear me out:
I don't think a Pokemon being 4x weak to the starter in gym 1 is that big a deal.
It's the player's introduction to type matchups and gym battles in general, trainers up until this point have been mainly using bug/normal/flying types and not much else, this SHOULD be the player's reward for being patient and picking the starter that has a generally rougher matchup against the initial couple trainers.
Nosepass is already quite a shocker for the player if they've played gen 1 and were used to Brock, as it's a Rock type that handily walls the starter, for at least a little bit
I personally like the idea of giving the unevolved fossils representation in Rustboro Gym by having Hiker Marc and Youngster Tommy use them. (...Then change the gap in the wall above Tommy to being directly behind him instead, and have Youngster Josh facing upwards so you have a choice of a minimum of one Double Battle or three single battles required to face Roxanne. Feels kinda like a strategic choice for a Gym puzzle, fitting a honor student like Roxanne.)
Roxanne could then have have Rhyhorn, Aron, Nosepass (and maybe use this as an excuse to replace Aggron on Steven Stone's team?). Or, something else she could use is a Corsola. She uses the Gen 1 fossils in her Rematch teams, so the typing combo would be right at home for her, and it's a Pokemon that doesn't get a lot of rep. ...Hmmm, Rhyhorn's HP is a bit too high for a non-ace if players spam physical moves (either due to being new or doing something like a mono-type run), and Corsola would still make a nice pairing to Aron being neutral to Grass, while walling Mudkip fairly well if level-capping.
Torchic is already difficult choice for this gym anyway, so getting hit with Bubble wouldn't be the end of the world (without actually doing calcs, I estimate it's gotta be nearly even damage to Corsola using Rock Tomb on Torchic). On that note, also good for having a team that can all know Rock Tomb, since Lileep can't in Gen 3.
@@kemosonicfan123lbp I agree with that being fine if it's just a portion of the battle, which is why I kept Roxanne's geodude as her lead
But hard mode to me anyway would signal the player doesn't need an introduction to type matchups, though for making sense in world I'm fine with her geodude sticking around on any difficulty
One thing that was always strange to me is how you go from Winona with five pokemons to Tate&Liza with four, but i guess it would be strange having five in a double or six becauseits only 7th gym know
The "know" at the end pretend its not there
I was wondering the same while making this video, I wouldn't have felt right reducing winona to 4 team members, and yeah giving tate and liza an odd number of pokemon doesn't make sense (and giving them 6 is a bit hardcore imo considering theyre already one of the tougher gyms)
Camerupt with a white herb ..... shows the soft sand item, lol. Still a great job
oh nooooo lol thats because I originally gave camerupt a white herb, BUT when reviewing my edited video I was a little concerned that was a bit overkill having 3 white herb overheat evolved fire types
SO just to be clear I was meant to say soft sand there, in fact I redid the commentary for camerupt but I guess I forgot to change the text in the script and read it without realising.
@@RoryTheFiend I think you actually included both the White Herb voice line and the Soft Sand voice line in the video.
Hey Rory, can you make a video about fixing up the Kalos rivals and evil team’s team? Cause I’ve been working on rom hacking recently, and I think it’d be cool if I made a rom hack for x/y that adds ur gym leader and elite four changes into the game. But I feel the game would be funnier if I also had better evil team teams and rival teams
It's something I'm considering, the main issue with fixing rivals is in x and y theres a bunch more battles than in emerald (so my video would end up being really long and I bet people wouldn't want to watch all of it then)
I’m fine watching a long video, ur emerald rivals video was nearly an hour long.
I would've swapped Ice Beam on Kingdra for Dragon Breath, similar power because STAB but paralysis instead of freeze and would just be thematic.
That's fair, also actually means it's harder to wall since only steel resists dragon, good suggestion!
As Sun may be up, why not give Altaria Flamethrower instead of Dragon Dance?
Interesting thought, though instead maybe then I could replace dragon breath with flamethrower
@@RoryTheFiend the issue here is that Swampert double resists Fire, while is neutral to Dragon.
How could you not give Juan a Milotic?! It’s a Water Type and is literally defined by its Beauty
Because that's Wallace's Ace.
Yup exactly this, I think the champions ace for a region should be a pokemon the player does not see on any other trainer.
It gives a sense of unfamiliarity, and makes the champion stand out, they use pokemon nobody else does afterall.
That being said, Juan and Wallace sharing a pokemon or 2 can make sense since they had a mentor and student relationship
Swap Manetric's Shockwave for Thunderbolt
I would probably choose Noctowl over Swellow and teach it Psychic.
Weird idea for winona, why not replace the first mon with Bagon? a pokemon thats dreaming of flying joining up with a flying type gym leader
I honestly had vibrava in mind, but bagon (or shelgon) would be cool additions considering it's lore. I wonder if it being on a flying type team would fill it with hope or jealousy