I didn't dislike the video per se, but as many have also pointed out, you mostly explained the difference between open- and closed-back headphones. Most of us already know that; a short explanation was all that was needed for those who don't. Just an observation.
Been an owner of HD600's (which are 50 less good) for a while now. Love them, would recommend them to anyone. Tend to do the majority of mixing with them due to my current setup being in a front room! Even did this months VIPer challenge with them (free ad there).
They aren't 50 less good by any means. They both have identical construction, they have different paint jobs and the HD600's feature a more flat sound, whilst the HD650's are tuned to be slight warm-sounding.
The physics are actually relatively simple. Any soundwave (it doesn't matter what frequency) can only properly form inside of a space that's at least 1/2 the wavelength. Any smaller than that and the "walls" of the space (in this case, the back of the headphones) essentially push back on the wave at the wrong time. Kinda like if you're pushing someone on a swing and you push at the wrong time, they just won't swing properly. With lower frequencies, each individual pulse has more time to get further away before the next one starts, causing longer wavelengths. 20 hz waves are 56 feet long, even 100hz is still more than 10 feet! It's not until you get frequencies as high as 2k that they become small enough (6.8 inches for 2k, 3.4 needed to propagate) for closed back headphones to even start being produced properly. Open back headphones allow low frequencies to form using the much larger space of your entire room, although you still need the room to be nearly 30 feet to accurately judge all the way down to 20 hz. All that said, if you require accurate sound reproduction from headphones and can afford open back headphones, they are ABSOLUTELY worth it. It's just not the same otherwise.
Hi Chris, good comparison with the swing. I like difficult things explained in simple ways for us who are not technically trained : ) One question though: Isn't the frequency space respons behaving very different in headphones? Your example with open cans' low frequency using the entire room sound a bit odd because the volume itself really doesn't make sound reach the room's walls to affect the sound you hear? One of the biggest benefits I think is with cans is that you hear the direct sound almost entirely.
You may want to reconsider your analysis. Physics says differently. Wavelengths do not need "distance to develop" due to the wavelength, as is commonly misunderstood and propogated by the internet. If long wavelengths needed distance to develop, you would not have low frequencies in headphones, in cars, inside small ported subwoofer cabinets, etc. Also to hear all frequencies, you would have to move a different distance from the speaker and no one could hear all frequencies the same at any one location LOL. What actually happens is the pressure increases and decreases (the air pressure on the earth is modulated by the soundwave) and is sensed by the eardrum at a repetition rate based on the frequency, the wavelegth does not come into play here. The enclosure (closed headphones) will create a resonant cavity and increase the acoustic impedance on the diaphragm, but does not prevent the pressure wave from being developed. That is one reason open ears will be more accurate since resonate cavites are a major source of coloration. From an acoustics standpoint, we break the room acoustics down to four different qualities. (Yes I do work in the acoustics field). Those frequencies longer than the the room dimensions are what we call the "pressure zone", we just treat them differently than higher frequencies. I hope this clarifies as I have tried to simplify this as much as possible.
I respect you for attempting to explain this in a streamlined way, but it is extremely misleading. Music Technologists such as myself dislike using closed back headphones for many reasons. The first and main one is resonance. Because the general size of the headphones is a few inches in width, the frequency that has a wavelength of that distance will create a standing wave, and become much louder (inaccurate) due to constructive interference. This is why he said the mids and low-highs were bumped on the closed backs. To clarify some concepts you discuss, 100 hz is ~10 feet because the speed of sound in air is always relatively the same, so to change frequency you need to change the distance between pressure waves (opposed to speed). Think frequency= velocity/wavelength, but velocity can't change. To hear 100 hz, you don't need a 10 foot wide room, you just need air pressure waves to hit your ear 100 times a second. The most accurate environment to listen to 100 hz is a vacuum, and the worst is a 10 foot wide room because the waves will create standing waves (which is something you think is good; If you push a swing when it comes close to you, it will go higher than before; frequencies will add up to have higher/louder amplitudes than what was recorded= innacuracy). According to your theory, headphones can't have low end at all. This is obviously not the case.
@@jerryjazzbo2845 Owner of a 650 and a 280 pro. 280 pros are fantastic headphones. Much better isolation. They have their uses. Obviously they aren't gonna sound as good as 650.
I bought a pair that where in the show floor in a store years ago for around $150, best audio related purchase of my life (i just had to replace the cable, once, after 1 year of use).
If you're gonna get a pair of headphones like the 650's or 600's, make sure you get a good DAC and amp or some kind of good DAP. Having a good, clean signal makes a massive difference from most phones and laptops.
I own both HD 280 pro and HD 650, as well as a pair of Sony MDR 7506. Among all, HD 280 pro is my favorite in term of the timbre ( I pair them with Musical Fidelity X-Can v3 amp and Audioengine D1).
I bought these a few months ago based on you talking about them in the past. I wish I knew about these before buying my monitors a few years ago. My room is small and I always had trouble mixing. Not an issue with these. Very happy with them.
Skijumptoes I was pleasantly surprised that they translated really well. I was able to trust the bass level on the headphones, I couldn't do that on my monitors in my crappy room. Also, reverb was easier to dial in the right amount as I wasn't confused by the reverb that was inherit in my room.
My budget headphones consists of Audio Technica ATH-M50 closed-back for tracking and beyerdynamic DT-990 pro semi-open back for mixing. Both priced under $200 each. The AT's are not very comfortable for long periods of use and have a hyped midrange, but offer decent isolation for tracking. For mixing there's no comparison... the DT 990 Pro's are comfy as hell, have a flatter EQ curve and better bass response due to the semi-open back.
I have used HD650 for over 10 years and have noticed that they require a very good quality headphone amp to really sound good. You will also need a crosscoupled network to have a proper stereo image instead of the middle of head effect that headphones will give. I have never been happy with HD650 on typical headphone amplifiers built into most equipment. They actually sounded worse than headphones that were not nearly as good, as these are often more headphone amplifier friendly (most are just opamps, not real headphone amplifiers anyway). And as always, more acurate headphones and speakers will not have the built in "coloration" that some people prefer, so when comparing, always keep that in mind - "better" may not be more accurate, just more to your prefered taste. For recording, go for accuracy over a particular "sound".
This is exactly what I wondered! And I guess this is the “drawback” with investing in a couple of headphones like the HD650. It may not be good enough just to purchase the headphones, you would need a good headphone amp, and these are not super cheap from what I gather. But I guess it would be a good investment though? What headphone amp do you use? And you Joe?
I build my own since I am an electronic engineer, but there are many good ones out there. I do not like to specify unless I can run tests or at least see the schematic.
@@genebrandt8424 Hi can you send me your email, you seem to have good knowledge on this, would buying the 650's with custom calibration profile from sonar works not be enough? i'm also not sure whether I need an amp/ dac or soundcard
I upped my game a year ago, and because I knew you had HD650's, I bought a pair. I got them on sale for like $300. They are my favorite pair of headphones. Lately I've been mixing on them for the entire mixing session using everything else just to check the mix.
Hey Joe, nice to see you talk about headphones... Normally closed cans have more bass response compared to others. However some open cans do have a very good bass response and some closed has lesser bass response. The difference I think is that open cans have a more “accurate” reproduction of the bass sound. You hear more how the bass sounds. Really good closed cans can reproduce bass sound really well too. And off course headphones is a subject we could discuss so many things about... : )
These are by all accounts classic along with the hd600 but body should be paying near $500 for either of these. If you look you can find either for around $200 (maybe a little over). Especially with the massdrop sennheiser hd6xx out there. It's the same as the hd650 and you can get it new. Excellent headphones that shale well with better more expensive gear. And these (along with the hd6000) have a wonderful synergy with otl tube amps!
Time is the physics of it... Closed keeps it boxed up , open all the vibrations we hear as sound work more real time cause of the holes "makes it closer to a natural ear" not like a speaker
Would you recommend these for making beats and mixing ??? Or only mixing ? I don’t use any daws I have a 2000XL and a sp404 and I’ll be buying a small mixer to hook up to my XL
Kinda based on the famed classic HD 414 "open aire" headphones that were used in many big studios in the 70's (that at that time sold for around 29.00). The 414s went out of production around the mid-eighties. I owned a pair, and I have to admit, they were phenomenal. The bass was a bit unimpactful, but still present. It would be interesting to compare the bass response between this model and the 414s. Great video!
I own HD650, AKG K-701, and AKG k-240. Hated all of them until they were broken in. The running joke on is that the 650 stands for the number of hours it takes to break them in. Love the 650s. Best bang for the buck is the AKG K-240.
i 100% agree that people should invest in headphones if they cant fix their room. im in absolutely no position to treat my room, and not just for financial reasons, im still a student and dont have my own place. i absolutely disagree with getting closed back over open. open back is extremely important. sure if you're using a condenser mic you cant really track with them, that being said if you use a dynamic there really isn't that much bleed. Honestly get yourself an EV RE20, it's the closest you can get to a condenser with a dynamic mic, and they are super smooth and reject room sound. anyways back to headphones... i noticed a huge improvement in my mixing once I got open back headphones. the key is to find open back headphones that have a relatively flat frequency response and are in a decent price range. back when i was using closed back headphones my mixes were muddy and harsh on other playback systems. im not gonna say my new headphones are absolutely perfect but my mixes translate much better on other systems.
Heard that the bass is maybe a little too boosted in the 650s when compared to the 600s, but I'm not certain of that. Personally, I would aim for whichever one has the flattest response.
jkunblade I prefer a slight bass boost as most gear that's used to listen to music has an emphasis on bass anyway. Plus it's more encouraging having a bottom end that you don't need push yourself, right from the get go you're rocking and into the music more.
Rocking the HD 650's on a Xduuo x5 dac/amp. Love these headphones to death! when it comes to sound i dont take the easy way... also got the Genelecs 8030's
This was perfect, the mastering aspect was exactly what I needed to hear. I knew the rest of what you said, but the confidence in these for mixing/mastering is what I needed to hear to make the buying decision more warm and fuzzy lol. I use the DT 770 Pros for my mixing, but my ears get too warm after a while - Also w these you should check out the new waves plugin CLA NX - especially with these headphones it's a game changer!
Probably too late but the HD600 will probably do even better for you. The HD650 is basically an HD600 but a little warmer and a little more base. The hd600 is slightly more neutral and analytical. I think what sennheiser did was to make the hd600 mostly for professional use and the hd650 more for music listening.
@@ShahzadKhan-xn5eb Because open back is always gonna be better for gaming, they have wider sound and usually better positioning because their sound is free to leak and decay naturally.
Does it make a (big) difference when plugging in high quality headphones into the audio jack on your laptop/computer? I could imagine that the amp and DAC in the computer would be noticeable on headphones like those.
Thanks for making this video Joe! This is a hot topic between my electronic producer friends on whether the HD 650s are worth it. My friend has a pair and apparently doesn't like them anywhere near as much as his closed back audio technica m50x's for production. I haven't been able to try both yet, but I tried the m50x's and really liked them compared to my shure srh440's. I look forward to the time in my life I can try a pair of hd650's so I can really know what I like better. God bless.
Оо, круто, давно хотел их себе купить, но никак не решался...теперь 100% возьму! Давно искал канал с адекватным и знающим своё дело музыкантом, спасибо тебе!
@@HomeStudioCorner intresting??? Your the only person iv ever heard say that... It dont mean your wrong though... It depends on the headphones also Iv never seen any1 record with open backs ... It lets the sound out and bleeding...closed solidates it all for recording wich would add bass anyway my headphones all suck Open and closed Im probably going for these 1ns...the open for mixing Thanks for the advice
Yeah I can see how they may have more bass, but I've found open back to have deeper, more accurate bass. And a lot of cheaper closed-back headphones don't reproduce those LOW frequencies as well as my nicer HD650 headphones.
@@HomeStudioCorner im glad you replied i lost the convo...sooo i talked to my producer again...he said EXACTLY what you did... He uses the same and they are closed back!!! I was wrong. Frim what im seeing these particular open backs acually have a whole diffrent punchy bass tone...and the closed are acually a realer bass tone you are correct about all you said It really does depend on the company Thank you for your advice I know which headphones to buy now I do all diffrent genres so i need a really good set of headphones Thanks again :)
I've been working on a pair of Focal Spirit Pros, and even having access to studio speakers and other headphone models, including the HD650 o always come back to the Focals, very happy with the results. Great video Joe!
I want a pair. I'm taped out though! Spent 2g building the right PC, right audio interface was like 300? right midi synth another chunk. Guitar guy, so a few guitar IR controllers free! But some cab bundles not! Although Ampire is not bad with added IRs. And other stuff. Plugins a few, mostly EQs, of variations, compressors to, exciters, limiters, saturated. Nothing direct sound wise. More chain stuff. SSL style EQs to. No real synths or whatever outside Studio One stuff. Oh one wave synth. Can't really use my monitors much in my situation. Thus headphones. But tapped out by then. Not a good place to hold back on!
I only have the hd650s alone for all my studio work including recording. I was planning to add monitor speakers to my rig very soon but after watching this video, I feel like maybe I need to get closed-back headphones first. I'm thinking of maybe lowering my budget for the speakers to accommodate headphones as well. But I've also heard that the payoff with high-grade monitors in the studio is to die for. Any advice?
I have the 6xx from massdrop. People say these are the same headphones, I dont know about that bc I haven't heard the actual 650s but let me tell you, I've seen a lot of people hyping those 6xx headphones up too much and I was kinda disappointed when I got them. They're ok but not as great as people were saying. I'm no audio engineer to know what's great so who knows, maybe they really are that great, much so that my mind cant comprehend LoL. I do enjoy them dont get me wrong, they are darker than I'd like but I'd never paid $500 for these. I'm glad I only paid $200, that price seemed fair.
@@Hurcor I do have 2 amp/dac one fiio E17k and the other one is a smsl m6. I was trying to get a darkvoice from massdrop since some people say it makes them sound even better because of tubes...
@@Hurcor Maybe in a couple of years I'll buy something else. They're good for now although expectations were a bit too high; in the meantime, some "ok" speakers are in my shopping list.
I have a good Mainboard in my PC with the ALC 1220 Codec Onboard Sound. In the Manuals it says , i can run Headphones up to 600 Ohm. Has anyone had any experience with the Comb. Sennheiser HD 650 + ALC 1220?
Sometimes i listen to lower quality audio files. Will a higher priced pair of headphones help to improve the sound quality of a lower quality audio file?
I got the Sennheiser 650s about a week a and a half ago. It depends on your amp power for the most part. My amp pulls 105 wpc and makes even weak recordings sound great (with the headphones, of course).
I’m in my Music Production degree for Berklee, i was looking at getting Yamaha HS8 pair. Would it be a more wise decision to go With the Sennheiser route?
Forrest Baldwin if you're using it for more than a few hours at a time I'd go with speakers as headphones can really mess your ears up unless you're very regimented in keeping the volume down. Also I find they can be tiring during longer sessions.
260 $ on amazon, right now ... l feared that Sennheiser may stop the production because of the new 660s, less impressive in my humble opinion and far more expensive (500 $)
Well, Since They're Open Back, You Never Adviced On Which Headphone Amp You Use To Drive The HD650s & To Be Quite Honest That's What Many People Wanted To Know...
Highly recommend an objective 2 headphone amp, good mid range amp that does a good job without breaking the bank to much. I've been using one with my hd 650's for the past year and they sound amazing.
You could not have gone into less detail about these headphones. How does an 8 minute video amount to, these headphones are great, I really like them...?
I’m not a fan of scripted reviews but you could definitely do with cue cards or notes. Most of this video was explaining open backed headphones rather than actually reviewing.... It’s definitely gonna be off putting to viewers that they spent ten minutes watching a product review but are just as clueless about it and unaware of other options. In comparison, the video in the search below yours is 4 mins long and nails the topic perfectly. If you’re gonna go off topic or go into hefty detail do podcasts or longer videos talking about different qualities of over ear headphones entirely
I wanted a review of the headphones; not an explanation of what open back headphones are. For gods sake of course I know what they are I’m watching a review of $500 headphones!
IM so sorry i got the HD650 and all you audio people make me crazy i got these and they have less detail than my AKG k 712pros and the HD 650 distort with action scenes in games just like my HD558's. Maybe they are better in music but for everything else i dont like them when alot of bass or explosions go off they distort so hard i think they will break.
bro this is studio monitors for mixing and not for gaming..for gaming you want closed back headphones ..this is not for playing loud music with too much bass. this headphones are flat..what that means is that they were designed to help people who produce and mix music to be able to listen to the sound as flat as possible..if your gaming you dont really want that..you want headphones who can play loud music with heavy bass.try pionneer hdj 1000 or 2000 or dr dre..that kind of headphones
@@mariospavlou8421 Bro! You want open back headphones for gaming. You need good soundstage and imagining for that immersive experience. Also to track people's movements in multiplayer so you can kill them before they kill you.. bro
3 minutes in and nothing about the hd650, maybe make a video called 'open vs closed back' next time and keep it separate from a specific headphone review.
hi thanks for the video, i bought HD 650 for 230€ on ebay, now the owner tells me that the original cables suck....not build-wise but audio quality-wise and that he never used them for the mentioned reason i'm incredibly new to all this audio-shit....i bought audio technica m40x 2 months ago and now these sennheiser's i started with that "audiophile" (hate that word) stuff ca 3 months ago i have 0 idea about technology, but for me its hard to believe that a cable makes much of a difference audio-wise i mean...why would sennheiser put that "shitty" cable in these so called mid-end Headphones should i buy new and more expensive cables? or did he talk shit (he was weird as fk anyway couldn't speak german properly, which is fine im just saying he was weird)
The seller doesn't know what he's talking about. The cables on the HD650 are great. Also cables don't really dictate audio quality unless they're really really crappy. The originals that come with the HD650 are just as good as really expensive after market cables.
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I didn't dislike the video per se, but as many have also pointed out, you mostly explained the difference between open- and closed-back headphones. Most of us already know that; a short explanation was all that was needed for those who don't. Just an observation.
Been an owner of HD600's (which are 50 less good) for a while now. Love them, would recommend them to anyone. Tend to do the majority of mixing with them due to my current setup being in a front room! Even did this months VIPer challenge with them (free ad there).
They aren't 50 less good by any means. They both have identical construction, they have different paint jobs and the HD600's feature a more flat sound, whilst the HD650's are tuned to be slight warm-sounding.
Is this a review of the headphones or an explanation of what open back headphones are lol. You barely talk about how they sound
Right, it wasn't a review at all.
*In Ninja voice: "TALK ABOUT DA HEADPHONES MAAAN, THEY WANNA HEAR ABOUT THE HEADPHONES!"
Exactly! WTH?
Seriously!!!! This dude just started recording and forgot the aim for this video
thank you for saving my time)
The fact that he said many engineers use HD650's did not help? The fact that open back has better bass did not help?
Perfect. This is the conversation I’ve been having lately.
had mine for 2 yrs. Love them! will never get any else!
The physics are actually relatively simple. Any soundwave (it doesn't matter what frequency) can only properly form inside of a space that's at least 1/2 the wavelength. Any smaller than that and the "walls" of the space (in this case, the back of the headphones) essentially push back on the wave at the wrong time. Kinda like if you're pushing someone on a swing and you push at the wrong time, they just won't swing properly. With lower frequencies, each individual pulse has more time to get further away before the next one starts, causing longer wavelengths. 20 hz waves are 56 feet long, even 100hz is still more than 10 feet! It's not until you get frequencies as high as 2k that they become small enough (6.8 inches for 2k, 3.4 needed to propagate) for closed back headphones to even start being produced properly. Open back headphones allow low frequencies to form using the much larger space of your entire room, although you still need the room to be nearly 30 feet to accurately judge all the way down to 20 hz.
All that said, if you require accurate sound reproduction from headphones and can afford open back headphones, they are ABSOLUTELY worth it. It's just not the same otherwise.
Hi Chris, good comparison with the swing. I like difficult things explained in simple ways for us who are not technically trained : )
One question though: Isn't the frequency space respons behaving very different in headphones? Your example with open cans' low frequency using the entire room sound a bit odd because the volume itself really doesn't make sound reach the room's walls to affect the sound you hear?
One of the biggest benefits I think is with cans is that you hear the direct sound almost entirely.
You may want to reconsider your analysis. Physics says differently. Wavelengths do not need "distance to develop" due to the wavelength, as is commonly misunderstood and propogated by the internet. If long wavelengths needed distance to develop, you would not have low frequencies in headphones, in cars, inside small ported subwoofer cabinets, etc. Also to hear all frequencies, you would have to move a different distance from the speaker and no one could hear all frequencies the same at any one location LOL. What actually happens is the pressure increases and decreases (the air pressure on the earth is modulated by the soundwave) and is sensed by the eardrum at a repetition rate based on the frequency, the wavelegth does not come into play here. The enclosure (closed headphones) will create a resonant cavity and increase the acoustic impedance on the diaphragm, but does not prevent the pressure wave from being developed. That is one reason open ears will be more accurate since resonate cavites are a major source of coloration. From an acoustics standpoint, we break the room acoustics down to four different qualities. (Yes I do work in the acoustics field). Those frequencies longer than the the room dimensions are what we call the "pressure zone", we just treat them differently than higher frequencies. I hope this clarifies as I have tried to simplify this as much as possible.
I respect you for attempting to explain this in a streamlined way, but it is extremely misleading.
Music Technologists such as myself dislike using closed back headphones for many reasons. The first and main one is resonance. Because the general size of the headphones is a few inches in width, the frequency that has a wavelength of that distance will create a standing wave, and become much louder (inaccurate) due to constructive interference. This is why he said the mids and low-highs were bumped on the closed backs.
To clarify some concepts you discuss, 100 hz is ~10 feet because the speed of sound in air is always relatively the same, so to change frequency you need to change the distance between pressure waves (opposed to speed). Think frequency= velocity/wavelength, but velocity can't change. To hear 100 hz, you don't need a 10 foot wide room, you just need air pressure waves to hit your ear 100 times a second. The most accurate environment to listen to 100 hz is a vacuum, and the worst is a 10 foot wide room because the waves will create standing waves (which is something you think is good; If you push a swing when it comes close to you, it will go higher than before; frequencies will add up to have higher/louder amplitudes than what was recorded= innacuracy). According to your theory, headphones can't have low end at all. This is obviously not the case.
@@aidansingh9790 hi do you know if mass damping headphones would remove unwanted resonances and upto what extent?
@@genebrandt8424 hi can mass damping remove resonances and thus improve the sound and transient response ?
I appreciate you for making this video more than you know😊
I'm currently using the Sennheiser HD 280 Pro headphones and absolutely love them for both recording and mixing !
Get a 650 from Massdrop and you'll hear how much the 280 sucks.
@@jerryjazzbo2845 Owner of a 650 and a 280 pro. 280 pros are fantastic headphones. Much better isolation. They have their uses. Obviously they aren't gonna sound as good as 650.
I bought a pair that where in the show floor in a store years ago for around $150, best audio related purchase of my life (i just had to replace the cable, once, after 1 year of use).
Hey Joe. Thanks for the review … which I actually listened to on my HD650's.
Been a year since recording Fighter. Wow!
If you're gonna get a pair of headphones like the 650's or 600's, make sure you get a good DAC and amp or some kind of good DAP. Having a good, clean signal makes a massive difference from most phones and laptops.
what would recommend? is it good to get an amp dac combined ?
I own both HD 280 pro and HD 650, as well as a pair of Sony MDR 7506. Among all, HD 280 pro is my favorite in term of the timbre ( I pair them with Musical Fidelity X-Can v3 amp and Audioengine D1).
My producer uses them also...saids they are perfect the 280z "for mixing" they really separate the sounds
His mixes are SIIIICK
650s are nice. I like to get the track sounding as good as they can get on that and then take the track to the studio for final mixing on monitors
I bought these a few months ago based on you talking about them in the past. I wish I knew about these before buying my monitors a few years ago. My room is small and I always had trouble mixing. Not an issue with these. Very happy with them.
Donald Hokanson how do your mixes sound on large speakers/other sources like car radio etc. though? That's usually the problem with headphone mixing.
Skijumptoes I was pleasantly surprised that they translated really well. I was able to trust the bass level on the headphones, I couldn't do that on my monitors in my crappy room. Also, reverb was easier to dial in the right amount as I wasn't confused by the reverb that was inherit in my room.
You basicly summed up how iv been feeling about this... Thank you for helping me make the right decision.
If you're in the USA, you can get these from Drop for 200 bucks. They aren't called HD650 but HD6XX on that website.
I didn't need the physics lesson at the beginning, nor did I need to be explained what "HD" means. Just tell me about the sound quality.
Yo change the title of this video to "Open back/ close back explanation and differences etc etc"
Disliked👎
Honestly you are the best reviewer ever, you make and excellent video and very very easy to understand. Thank you!!!!!!!!
I think you forgot to review them D:
Nice review thank you.
My budget headphones consists of Audio Technica ATH-M50 closed-back for tracking and beyerdynamic DT-990 pro semi-open back for mixing. Both priced under $200 each. The AT's are not very comfortable for long periods of use and have a hyped midrange, but offer decent isolation for tracking. For mixing there's no comparison... the DT 990 Pro's are comfy as hell, have a flatter EQ curve and better bass response due to the semi-open back.
I have used HD650 for over 10 years and have noticed that they require a very good quality headphone amp to really sound good. You will also need a crosscoupled network to have a proper stereo image instead of the middle of head effect that headphones will give. I have never been happy with HD650 on typical headphone amplifiers built into most equipment. They actually sounded worse than headphones that were not nearly as good, as these are often more headphone amplifier friendly (most are just opamps, not real headphone amplifiers anyway).
And as always, more acurate headphones and speakers will not have the built in "coloration" that some people prefer, so when comparing, always keep that in mind - "better" may not be more accurate, just more to your prefered taste. For recording, go for accuracy over a particular "sound".
This is exactly what I wondered! And I guess this is the “drawback” with investing in a couple of headphones like the HD650. It may not be good enough just to purchase the headphones, you would need a good headphone amp, and these are not super cheap from what I gather. But I guess it would be a good investment though? What headphone amp do you use? And you Joe?
I build my own since I am an electronic engineer, but there are many good ones out there. I do not like to specify unless I can run tests or at least see the schematic.
@@genebrandt8424 Hi can you send me your email, you seem to have good knowledge on this, would buying the 650's with custom calibration profile from sonar works not be enough? i'm also not sure whether I need an amp/ dac or soundcard
How About Getting Yourselves A Pair Of Studio Monitors, Like #YamahaHS5/7/8 Or The #Focals 🙄
I upped my game a year ago, and because I knew you had HD650's, I bought a pair. I got them on sale for like $300. They are my favorite pair of headphones. Lately I've been mixing on them for the entire mixing session using everything else just to check the mix.
Thanks Joe.
Hey Joe, nice to see you talk about headphones... Normally closed cans have more bass response compared to others. However some open cans do have a very good bass response and some closed has lesser bass response.
The difference I think is that open cans have a more “accurate” reproduction of the bass sound. You hear more how the bass sounds. Really good closed cans can reproduce bass sound really well too.
And off course headphones is a subject we could discuss so many things about... : )
Great Video Joe, I have a HD 700 and I love them!!
These are by all accounts classic along with the hd600 but body should be paying near $500 for either of these. If you look you can find either for around $200 (maybe a little over). Especially with the massdrop sennheiser hd6xx out there. It's the same as the hd650 and you can get it new. Excellent headphones that shale well with better more expensive gear. And these (along with the hd6000) have a wonderful synergy with otl tube amps!
Great review brother!!
Love the 5stepmix pdf too 🔥🔥🔥
I've got the HD380, sounds also great. And for my td-30 drums I have the Roland.. 300
Time is the physics of it... Closed keeps it boxed up , open all the vibrations we hear as sound work more real time cause of the holes "makes it closer to a natural ear" not like a speaker
Would you recommend these for making beats and mixing ??? Or only mixing ? I don’t use any daws I have a 2000XL and a sp404 and I’ll be buying a small mixer to hook up to my XL
Kinda based on the famed classic HD 414 "open aire" headphones that were used in many big studios in the 70's (that at that time sold for around 29.00). The 414s went out of production around the mid-eighties. I owned a pair, and I have to admit, they were phenomenal. The bass was a bit unimpactful, but still present. It would be interesting to compare the bass response between this model and the 414s. Great video!
Michael Tamburello I have a pair of 424’s bought new in mid 80’s they sound great!
I came here after Apple dropped a $550 headphone.
I own HD650, AKG K-701, and AKG k-240. Hated all of them until they were broken in. The running joke on is that the 650 stands for the number of hours it takes to break them in.
Love the 650s. Best bang for the buck is the AKG K-240.
There's no such thing as break in or burn-in. 😆
i 100% agree that people should invest in headphones if they cant fix their room. im in absolutely no position to treat my room, and not just for financial reasons, im still a student and dont have my own place. i absolutely disagree with getting closed back over open. open back is extremely important. sure if you're using a condenser mic you cant really track with them, that being said if you use a dynamic there really isn't that much bleed. Honestly get yourself an EV RE20, it's the closest you can get to a condenser with a dynamic mic, and they are super smooth and reject room sound. anyways back to headphones... i noticed a huge improvement in my mixing once I got open back headphones. the key is to find open back headphones that have a relatively flat frequency response and are in a decent price range. back when i was using closed back headphones my mixes were muddy and harsh on other playback systems. im not gonna say my new headphones are absolutely perfect but my mixes translate much better on other systems.
Heard that the bass is maybe a little too boosted in the 650s when compared to the 600s, but I'm not certain of that. Personally, I would aim for whichever one has the flattest response.
jkunblade the difference is so miniscule it doesn't even matter
jkunblade I prefer a slight bass boost as most gear that's used to listen to music has an emphasis on bass anyway.
Plus it's more encouraging having a bottom end that you don't need push yourself, right from the get go you're rocking and into the music more.
Charlie Puth really likes the HD650's. i trust that guy's opinion with anything music/audio related. dude's a genius.
He also made a tiktok where he said he mixed his last record on Bose headphones too smh so who knows lol.
i bought one hell of an awesome open back headphone
Rocking the HD 650's on a Xduuo x5 dac/amp. Love these headphones to death! when it comes to sound i dont take the easy way... also got the Genelecs 8030's
have you tried the Byerdynamic DT 990 or DT1990 ? Do you like your HD650s more?
Perfectly timed video! I'm about to take a class at MTSU that requires me to buy these!
thank you for this video and it was excellent information
Sennheiser HD650 or HIFIMAN Sundara ? :) I dont know which should I buy.
This was perfect, the mastering aspect was exactly what I needed to hear. I knew the rest of what you said, but the confidence in these for mixing/mastering is what I needed to hear to make the buying decision more warm and fuzzy lol. I use the DT 770 Pros for my mixing, but my ears get too warm after a while - Also w these you should check out the new waves plugin CLA NX - especially with these headphones it's a game changer!
Probably too late but the HD600 will probably do even better for you. The HD650 is basically an HD600 but a little warmer and a little more base. The hd600 is slightly more neutral and analytical. I think what sennheiser did was to make the hd600 mostly for professional use and the hd650 more for music listening.
Would the 650's be good for voice overs, specifically characters and commercial and if you project your voice quite a bit for character work?
The video barely has anything to do with reviewing HD650, what are you doing dude
Which is better for gaming, open or closed back headphones?
Open back and it's not even close.
J why do you say that?
@@ShahzadKhan-xn5eb Because open back is always gonna be better for gaming, they have wider sound and usually better positioning because their sound is free to leak and decay naturally.
You have to better differentiate between using them for recording vs. the control room
Does it make a (big) difference when plugging in high quality headphones into the audio jack on your laptop/computer? I could imagine that the amp and DAC in the computer would be noticeable on headphones like those.
Thank you very much. One Question . Do you need an amp?
Thanks for making this video Joe! This is a hot topic between my electronic producer friends on whether the HD 650s are worth it. My friend has a pair and apparently doesn't like them anywhere near as much as his closed back audio technica m50x's for production. I haven't been able to try both yet, but I tried the m50x's and really liked them compared to my shure srh440's. I look forward to the time in my life I can try a pair of hd650's so I can really know what I like better.
God bless.
The m50s's are loved by many, but aren't even close to flat.
A hd 650 is equal to a $15000 music system in my experience with headphones and music systems
Оо, круто, давно хотел их себе купить, но никак не решался...теперь 100% возьму! Давно искал канал с адекватным и знающим своё дело музыкантом, спасибо тебе!
Good video also!!!
But closed back usually have more bass then open...
Not my experience.
@@HomeStudioCorner intresting???
Your the only person iv ever heard say that... It dont mean your wrong though...
It depends on the headphones also
Iv never seen any1 record with open backs ... It lets the sound out and bleeding...closed solidates it all for recording wich would add bass anyway my headphones all suck
Open and closed
Im probably going for these 1ns...the open for mixing
Thanks for the advice
Yeah I can see how they may have more bass, but I've found open back to have deeper, more accurate bass. And a lot of cheaper closed-back headphones don't reproduce those LOW frequencies as well as my nicer HD650 headphones.
@@HomeStudioCorner im glad you replied i lost the convo...sooo i talked to my producer again...he said EXACTLY what you did... He uses the same and they are closed back!!! I was wrong.
Frim what im seeing these particular open backs acually have a whole diffrent punchy bass tone...and the closed are acually a realer bass tone you are correct about all you said
It really does depend on the company
Thank you for your advice
I know which headphones to buy now
I do all diffrent genres so i need a really good set of headphones
Thanks again :)
I've been working on a pair of Focal Spirit Pros, and even having access to studio speakers and other headphone models, including the HD650 o always come back to the Focals, very happy with the results. Great video Joe!
I want a pair. I'm taped out though! Spent 2g building the right PC, right audio interface was like 300? right midi synth another chunk. Guitar guy, so a few guitar IR controllers free! But some cab bundles not! Although Ampire is not bad with added IRs. And other stuff. Plugins a few, mostly EQs, of variations, compressors to, exciters, limiters, saturated. Nothing direct sound wise. More chain stuff. SSL style EQs to. No real synths or whatever outside Studio One stuff. Oh one wave synth. Can't really use my monitors much in my situation. Thus headphones. But tapped out by then. Not a good place to hold back on!
The lowest price of a device that is almost operational for this headset is excellent
I only have the hd650s alone for all my studio work including recording. I was planning to add monitor speakers to my rig very soon but after watching this video, I feel like maybe I need to get closed-back headphones first. I'm thinking of maybe lowering my budget for the speakers to accommodate headphones as well. But I've also heard that the payoff with high-grade monitors in the studio is to die for. Any advice?
Awesome, good to see your face again! Haha, I missed that on the mixtogether series. Are the cables on those detachable?
how loud are they for someone else sitting in the room?
did any one know that is headphone must go with 300 ohm headphone amp or can work fine with rme audio interface with 80 ohm ?!
650's are NOT 500 bucks. I found mine for as cheap as 200.
Great deal!
May I ask where?
6xx?
FiddlerSteve Their HD6xx if your wondering. Same thing, different manufacturer. Lower price
where ??
I have the 6xx from massdrop. People say these are the same headphones, I dont know about that bc I haven't heard the actual 650s but let me tell you, I've seen a lot of people hyping those 6xx headphones up too much and I was kinda disappointed when I got them. They're ok but not as great as people were saying. I'm no audio engineer to know what's great so who knows, maybe they really are that great, much so that my mind cant comprehend LoL. I do enjoy them dont get me wrong, they are darker than I'd like but I'd never paid $500 for these. I'm glad I only paid $200, that price seemed fair.
you need to get an amplifier to push the power since they are 300 ohm headphones. Try out jds labs atom.
@@Hurcor I do have 2 amp/dac one fiio E17k and the other one is a smsl m6. I was trying to get a darkvoice from massdrop since some people say it makes them sound even better because of tubes...
Cuentos de la Cripta well you know what you gotta do! spend more money!! yay!!
@@Hurcor Maybe in a couple of years I'll buy something else. They're good for now although expectations were a bit too high; in the meantime, some "ok" speakers are in my shopping list.
how good are these for movies and gaming and what dac should I get to power them?
Just get the 58x jubilee it’s damn near identical in sound quality to the 650 if not better and it’s only 150 $
I have a good Mainboard in my PC with the ALC 1220 Codec Onboard Sound. In the Manuals it says , i can run Headphones up to 600 Ohm. Has anyone had any experience with the Comb. Sennheiser HD 650 + ALC 1220?
Sometimes i listen to lower quality audio files. Will a higher priced pair of headphones help to improve the sound quality of a lower quality audio file?
I got the Sennheiser 650s about a week a and a half ago. It depends on your amp power for the most part. My amp pulls 105 wpc and makes even weak recordings sound great (with the headphones, of course).
I’m in my Music Production degree for Berklee, i was looking at getting Yamaha HS8 pair. Would it be a more wise decision to go With the Sennheiser route?
Forrest Baldwin if you're using it for more than a few hours at a time I'd go with speakers as headphones can really mess your ears up unless you're very regimented in keeping the volume down.
Also I find they can be tiring during longer sessions.
8-inch speakers require a pretty big room. If you don't have that, you MIGHT be better off with headphones.
Since they are open back, do people near by hear the music playing out of the headphones?
yes
260 $ on amazon, right now ... l feared that Sennheiser may stop the production because of the new 660s, less impressive in my humble opinion and far more expensive (500 $)
Well, Since They're Open Back, You Never Adviced On Which Headphone Amp You Use To Drive The HD650s & To Be Quite Honest That's What Many People Wanted To Know...
I just use the headphone outputs on my interface/monitor management systems. No need for high end headphone amps.
@@HomeStudioCorner Fair Enough 👍
should I buy the 650's for 250 USD??? they are new
i got the original hd650, but i am still wondering on which amp i should use with them.
Highly recommend an objective 2 headphone amp, good mid range amp that does a good job without breaking the bank to much. I've been using one with my hd 650's for the past year and they sound amazing.
You could not have gone into less detail about these headphones. How does an 8 minute video amount to, these headphones are great, I really like them...?
🤷♂️
Anyone is using HD650 with Sonarworks Reference 4?
What does the headphones sounds like ?
grab some 650's and a Valhalla from schiit and you're golden
I’m not a fan of scripted reviews but you could definitely do with cue cards or notes. Most of this video was explaining open backed headphones rather than actually reviewing....
It’s definitely gonna be off putting to viewers that they spent ten minutes watching a product review but are just as clueless about it and unaware of other options. In comparison, the video in the search below yours is 4 mins long and nails the topic perfectly. If you’re gonna go off topic or go into hefty detail do podcasts or longer videos talking about different qualities of over ear headphones entirely
I’m watching on 650s
need recommendation for a beginner amp for HD 650
Schit fulla 2 or magni 3 or filo e10k
Thanks
I think people who want to buy 650 know at least the headphone basics
Goooood point.
HD6XX = HD650 .. massdrop x Sennheiser HD6XX >>>>>>
I wanted a review of the headphones; not an explanation of what open back headphones are. For gods sake of course I know what they are I’m watching a review of $500 headphones!
IM so sorry i got the HD650 and all you audio people make me crazy i got these and they have less detail than my AKG k 712pros and the HD 650 distort with action scenes in games just like my HD558's. Maybe they are better in music but for everything else i dont like them when alot of bass or explosions go off they distort so hard i think they will break.
bro this is studio monitors for mixing and not for gaming..for gaming you want closed back headphones ..this is not for playing loud music with too much bass. this headphones are flat..what that means is that they were designed to help people who produce and mix music to be able to listen to the sound as flat as possible..if your gaming you dont really want that..you want headphones who can play loud music with heavy bass.try pionneer hdj 1000 or 2000 or dr dre..that kind of headphones
They are high impedance. Do you have them connected to an amplifier?
@@mariospavlou8421 Bro! You want open back headphones for gaming. You need good soundstage and imagining for that immersive experience. Also to track people's movements in multiplayer so you can kill them before they kill you.. bro
3 minutes in and nothing about the hd650, maybe make a video called 'open vs closed back' next time and keep it separate from a specific headphone review.
Roger that.
hi thanks for the video, i bought HD 650 for 230€ on ebay, now the owner tells me that the original cables suck....not build-wise but audio quality-wise and that he never used them for the mentioned reason
i'm incredibly new to all this audio-shit....i bought audio technica m40x 2 months ago and now these sennheiser's i started with that "audiophile" (hate that word) stuff ca 3 months ago
i have 0 idea about technology, but for me its hard to believe that a cable makes much of a difference audio-wise i mean...why would sennheiser put that "shitty" cable in these so called mid-end Headphones
should i buy new and more expensive cables? or did he talk shit (he was weird as fk anyway couldn't speak german properly, which is fine im just saying he was weird)
The seller doesn't know what he's talking about. The cables on the HD650 are great. Also cables don't really dictate audio quality unless they're really really crappy. The originals that come with the HD650 are just as good as really expensive after market cables.
660s are better in every way except smoothness.
Nowadays 200-300$!
This review absolutely sucks. Rename the video to explaining open vs closed headphones. Wasted my time.
Is this review or open-close explanatory vid? waste of time
Boring details