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I really like that idea you have about Diavolo being the same guy Giorno saved all those years ago. It's possibly true due to how Diavolo is very sensitive about his identity and likes to disguise himself.
As someone who enjoys morally-shaded protagonists, I love Giorno. He has the kind heart of the Joestars, but the ruthlessness of DIO. It makes him more interesting, compelling and even human, since everyone has a dark side.
He’s not even that ruthless, he just turns the golden rule back on people. If you’re good he’ll even help you, and punish you to the varying levels of evil you might be
@@HonerableG He kills, something most Joestars don't do. Joseph, Jonathan and Johnny kill. Jotaro, Josuke and Joylne don't, but will beat them down hard.
One thing I remember from TV Tropes is the fact someone put Giorno in the Good Powers, Bad People category, citing him specifically as "both appearance and personality-wise, a practically exact copy of his father, Dio Brando, and his main goal in life is taking over the mafia, with any person standing in his way being just another target to manipulate to join his side (if they're useful) or annihilate. His Stand ability, rather than be a proof of his heroism, symbolises his inability to see the difference between people and ''things'' for him to use, and any living thing born from his powers is sure to be disposed of when it can no longer provide him help. Notably, his Requiem Stand's main power is to no sell any enemy Stand's attacks and subject the enemy to a fate worse than death.". It's since been removed, with the remover pointing out that's completely wrong, but it makes me wonder how the story would've gone if Giorno were exactly like that? Would he end up being the true final boss himself?
I honestly feel like that's , in some small part, what Giorno and the whole Part as a whole are missing. For a story focused around joining and climbing the ranks of the italian mafia, there's very little morally gray stuff that happens. It would have been interesting to see Giorno actually have to choose between sacrificing his morals and achieving his dream in the long run. Really testing how much of his soul he was willing to sacrifice for his goal, another parallel to Dio
Yeah if anything he belongs in almost the exact opposite trope. Dio manipulating life was something he did as a vampire, but Giorno uses his Golden Experience to heal and help people. And he's not nearly as cruel with his creations like Dio would be.
I will always remember how some Yugioh fan claimed Yuya Sakaki was the best anime protagonist while claiming Giorno was one of the worst protagonists. It was on a video titled "Sakaki Yusho Carded".
People considered Yuya the best anime protag!? That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Idk how anyone could have that opinion when he isn't even the best yugioh protag
I like giorno because he acts super tough but every time we get into his head hes screaming I don't think araki held the "this is a kid trying to be a gangster" angle long enough hes still really cool tho.
For real though hahaha. I remember vividly the change of perception I had of Giorno, watching him finesse his way through Koichi and Luca and then Bruno comes along and the mask promptly falls off. I do like how the opposed traits interact though - I get the impression he’s able to remain ambitious and outwardly stone cold precisely *because* of his 24/7 survivalist mindset.
The thing about the random capo Giorno saved is supposed to be a representation of humanity that a random person can bring compassion in a world of darkness and giorno like this man wants to bring out that same compassion if it turned out to be diavolo that symbolism just goes down the drain.
Not really it doesn't, because it can also show that even a scumbag can have a good point to them... Ya know, kinda like how Giorno views mobsters, actual criminals, can have honor and help others. You don't actually explain anything here.
Can’t imagine someone as pathologically secretive as diavolo randomly helping some kid from the shadows tho - he totally would think his being saved backs up his surpassing fate thingo but that’d be where it ends surely, he wouldn’t keep risking himself by tying himself to some kid. Especially not lingering nearby as it’s shown, all opinion of course but doesn’t seem the type
@@Mangakamen it being diavolo feels really out of character for Diavolo however Diavolo is first and foremost a man concerned with keeping his identity a secret, so why would he stick around after being saved
@@MangakamenStill feels too out of character for Diavolo, and also against the final fight wanting to emphasize how Diavolo is such a scumbag that he is completely unworthy of the arrow, and also is an opposite of Giorno. Diavolo turning out to be the one to help Giorno would just make the story bashing him with the "You aren't worthy" hammer kinda awkward, cuz then it would also mean that Giorno, the guy supposedly worthy of it... was trying to be more like someone who isn't. It just won't add up. Oh and the entire reason Giorno goes after Diavolo is cuz he controls an entire drug trade business. Won't make sense for him to be the guy killing a mafioso for peddling drugs. I can see the thing you said about him not being a paranoid control freak before becoming the boss, but becoming one because of a near-death encounter as a Capo, make sense, but the rest only coming up after his ascension to boss just doesn't add up, especially in the context of him already being established to be ruthless enough to burn his entire home-village down, at a point where he wasn't a mafia boss, so he has to be this selfish, ruthless, apathetic scum, but somehow also honorable enough to help a kid who saved his life, even though he would gain nothing from it. Still doesn't add up. If we bring in Doppio, he doesn't even match the look, and is also a bit too timid to fit the personality, and ofc also obedient to Diavolo, who probably won't let him go out of his way to do this either. I'llbe honest, I do like your idea, but I can't really see it fitting with the rest of the pieces of this story.
12:00 I personally don't care for those rumblings myself. I far more prefer the idea that Josuke never knew the man who saved him, but was left with such an impact that he respects the memory of that man by fashioning his appearance after him, over the idea of a stable time loop "I saved myself and modeled my look after myself" thing.
I feel like it may have actually been intended to be Josuke. I mean the guy looks just like Josuke and the being injured and randomly out in a snow storm does make believe that heavily as well. Add in that being stuck in a time loop happened at the end of the story. But I think this was changed because Araki may have been stuck with the if Josuke modeled himself after his future self then who did the first version of Josuke model himself after dilemma.
@@mysteriousweebx7037 Maybe the guy looked like Josuke because... duh... they share the same hairstyle, also both of them being students. And if you watch closely, Josuke's uniform is more personalized with items that represents him while the savior's uniform was almost generic. The time loop thing was never in the plans of Araki and he also confirmed this
@@il3fortunato664 Sure the uniform is slightly different but uniforms changing in seasons is a common thing in Japan. Add in that the guy even has the same ear piercing as Josuke. Again the biggest mystery is why some random teen guy was heavily injured and out in a snow storm in the middle of nowhere.
I don’t really like that kind of “X character from future part of the series should have been earlier.” There’s a clear reason why that isn’t the case, Araki didn’t think of it yet. If he thought of it, he would have done it.
It's quite clear by now that Araki kinda regrets making GER, because he had to completely write it out of the story not long after it's been written in.
It’s a shame we never got to see a cameo of him in Stone Ocean along with the Morioh Gang, it would have been interesting to see their reactions to the rebirth of the universe.
The tone shift when you called him opportunistic is funny. I enjoy how he is as ruthless as DIO but is one who treasures life like Jonathon. Muda Muda.
I always remembered thinking how extremely fortunate that even though he had a crappy upbringing, he is still way much nicer and kinder than we take him credit for. That despite of course he is known to be absolutely cold and shows no mercy to his enemies, he is still very sympathetic, polite, calm and more patient with those he truly cares for. Like the other teen JoJos in the main storyline, they have their own versions of this trait. They come off as tough, intentionally wanting to intimidate. But when push comes to shove, or if you befriend them. You would come to know that their hearts are caring, loyal and true. Criminal aspects aside, his morals are still genuinely heroic to a degree. He could have completely lost his way to the much darker side, Literally be even more of a menace if he was more on the evil side with his awakened powers. But he didn't. While he clearly does reflect a Dio side, he possesses some sort of elegance still. I don't think I remember feeling much of that in the Manga. But I definitely think that The Anime surely added some more flair and personality to him. Even though just a little bit.
I think diavolo as the gangster wouldnt work and that's because of one reason. The mafioso when confronted about his dad being killed clearly is shown to despise that he sold drugs to kids and woman. The drug trade is a big part why the gang is so big and we're shown multiple time that passione doesnt mind selling drugs to whoever is willing to pay.
The reason the Dio Johnathan stuff isn’t brought up is because he wouldn’t care, and that is why he is a good contrast with Diovolo. Diavolo hides in the shadows unable to embrace both sides of himself at once and dies because he literally left Doppio behind. Giorno understands the need to use both simultaneously to bring out their full potential, thus rectifying the mistakes of Johnathan and Dio and becoming his own person . A literal symbol of rebirth that sheds light on the lives of those around him. That’s why I actually think it’s integral to his character that he not know about his lineage at least before part five.
Thank you for this. In irl terms sometimes you have to give up the “I’m the main character of my life” syndrome to take a back seat and empower the awesome people around you. Giorno is such a good representation of that and that’s why I’ve always loved him as a character. He’s such an inspiration in that way
You're entitled to your opinions, but I think the idea of Dio (and other links to past parts) being more present and the idea of Diavolo being the man Giorno saved are both really bad. They both makes the world seem jokingly small, with like 12 characters living in it and keeping bumping into each other. Giorno's being Dio's son and having several interaction with characters from the previous parts make him less of a character, he's not "Giorno Giovanna, part 5 protag" and more "Giorno Giovanna, part 3 bad guy's son". It also undermines the themes of found family and being able to overcome your fate, when the part feels the need to obsess over his blood father while having 0 relation with him aside from a picture in his wallet. Diavolo being the man Giorno saved would feel cheap I feel. Just like the part 4 flashback you mentionned, Jojo is filled with small moments where random acts of kindness from strangers is what define humanity in Jojo (which is said by Araki to be the main theme of the manga) as good and righteous. Looping them back constantly as "Oh, that's actually Josuke who time travelled" or "Oh, that's actually the guy you saved as a child" undermines not only the stated theme of the manga, but also the believability of the world. Moreover, it kinda fucks Giorno's motivation. Giorno's motivation to be part of the mafia is through the prism of "these powerful criminals can use their influence to improve the state of their community", by getting rid of drug being sold to kids for example. That gangster Giono saved helped him in return, and became almost like a father figure to him (more than Dio or his step dad ever was). Being revealed to be Diavolo all along just for a cheap twist doesn't really improve their relationship in any way. Moreover, I feel like giving a clear backstory (or part of one at least) to Diavolo undermines what makes him great. If you know who he was, then he become just another criminal stand user, which we've already seen a lot along the part
"Giorno's being Dio's son and having several interaction with characters from the previous parts make him less of a character, " But that's not what I said... at all. I only said two characters, and it'd be only one character that's from a previous part who was a part of this part. This is twisting my words. " Moreover, it kinda fucks Giorno's motivation. Giorno's motivation to be part of the mafia is through the prism of "these powerful criminals can use their influence to improve the state of their community", by getting rid of drug being sold to kids for example. That gangster Giono saved helped him in return, and became almost like a father figure to him (more than Dio or his step dad ever was). Being revealed to be Diavolo all along just for a cheap twist doesn't really improve their relationship in any way. Moreover, I feel like giving a clear backstory (or part of one at least) to Diavolo undermines what makes him great. If you know who he was, then he become just another criminal stand user, which we've already seen a lot along the part" No it doesn't. I even explained how this could work as a dramatic irony, and actually expand upon Diavolo - Showing at one time he had honor, but had become corrupted and thus Giorno would strive to be better. I don't agree with your comment, and honestly I find it a bit reductive to what I actually said in the video, especially that first point where you had twisted what I said.
@@Mangakamen I don't think I twisted your argument, I'm just disagreeing with you. You complained about the lack of relevance of Giorno's being Dio's son, which is (at least in my opinion, don't accuse me of being disingenuous), what I mean when I say he would become less of his own character and more just a vehicule for the story to bring back elements of previous parts. For the last point, I don't understand how you disagree that it shows who he was just to afterward tell me that it shows who he was before being corrupted
"You complained about the lack of relevance of Giorno's being Dio's son, which is (at least in my opinion, don't accuse me of being disingenuous), what I mean when I say he would become less of his own character and more just a vehicule for the story to bring back elements of previous parts" But that had nothing to do with what I said - You literally said "Giorno's being Dio's son and having several interaction with characters from the previous parts make him less of a character," I only brought up Polenareff - a character who is prominent in this part on his own accord, and how to actually tie in his past with Giorno's father. This is literally the only connection to a past part in that regard, and wouldn't make Giorno less of a character. "For the last point, I don't understand how you disagree that it shows who he was just to afterward tell me that it shows who he was before being corrupted" I don't understand this sentence. I literally explained this would be a dramatic irony.;
Remove the time travel part and say "Oh, that's actually Kira who saved Josuke" to make the same point about unnecessary connections a little better. Also, the rest of Jojos are a lot more than just "part x good guy's descendant" so I don't see the reason not to make connections with Dio stronger. It's not that the world is small, it's that Dio's influence is big
I remember hearing that Araki wasn't in tye best headspace while writing part 5. Some sources claim it played a big part in Fugo changing from traitor to deserter, since Araki didn't want the emotional weight placed on Bucciarati for that.
araki had a very tough moment in his life when writing part 5, that’s why he deemed fugo being a traitor too much. tho if he was a villain, he would be terrifying. he could kill the whole town with no problem
Giorno in my opinion represents the missed potential Part 5 had storywise. I mean, for a story focused on joing and climbing the ranks of the mafia there's very few moments where Giorno's conviction and morals are tested. Because that would have really explored if he was more Joestar or Brando or maybe a little of both. How much of his soul was he willing to sacrifice to achieve his dream? How many concessions on his ethics and morals is he willing to make to get what he wants? It would have been an interesting parallel to both Dio and Diavolo. Showing us that maybe there are lines Giorno *wouldn't* cross
With you stating Giorno is the support instead of the leader, I'm somehow reminded of Kamen Rider Decade, given how his Final Story claims he's supposed to be support for the AR Riders, helping their stories progress either as the hero or the villain, and the whole of him being the "Destroyer of Worlds" is basically him taking oit the Riders of the AR Worlds with the meta excuse that in doing so, the memories of the Riders and their stories would live on, bringing them back from death; however, because Decade has no world or enemies of his own-his enemies are old or modernized versions of past Riders-he has no real story of his own, and thus no memories to bring him back... until he'a revived by the memories of the AR Riders themselves.
While I like the idea of Diavolo being the man who Giorno saved from a narrative standpoint, I’m hesitant to think of Diavolo being willing to return the favor as in character. If Giorno had saved Diavolo the guy would’ve just went on with his life, left the mini Gangstar with the awful life he had and he never would’ve risen to beat him.
I don't agree with that. Mafia, even Diavolo, have a thing about debt and loyalty to them - Hell, Diavolo was willing to have Pericolo live a lavish life for his loyalty. I think you're viewing this as a bit too black and white and assuming that this would be the only change made.
1. One thing most people don't talk about is that Giorno and Diavolo's roles in the story are reversed. Giorno, the protagonist, is *active* and a force of change. Whereas Diavolo, the antagonist, is entirely *reactive* and is looking to maintain the status quo 2. The protagonists and antagonists in Jojo not having a meaningfull connection, despite them being thematic opposites, is kind of a consistent thing Seriously, outside of Dio and Jonathan none of the Jojos have any sort of meaningfull relationship with the villain that makes it even more personal. Joseph had more of a connection with Wamuu DIO had more of a personal grudge against Joseph and vice versa and Polnareff defying Dio after being enslaved by him once was more compelling Kira was more afraid of Jotaro than Josuke Diavolo had more of a rivalry against Bruno than Giorno Pucci and Weather Report's relationship was the most compelling part of their respective characters Johnny and Diego had a great rivalry, whereas Valentine was more of an outside force that moved the plot Gappy/Josuke 8 had way more interactions with Jobin and Tamaki than he did Toru
There are three primary directions that a character arc can go, a positive change in learning and growing as a person and becomes the best/better version of themselves. The negative character arc where someone declines into their worst tendencies and falls into a worse place mentally and emotionally. But Giorno is the third type. The flat character. Sure even flat characters can learn and grow in some ways, but the core of who they are stays rigid and never wavers for a moment. To take a page from TotallyNotMark's analysis videos, Frieza goes through a negative character arc across the Namek saga, all the way to his death at the start of the Cell Saga. His worst impulses lead to his end. But in Super he actually enters a positive arc. He doesn't become a good person. Not at all. But he holds back those impulses that did nothing to help him, and starts handling problems in ways he never would have before. He became a better, more superior evil than he was on Namek. Meanwhile your Gokus and your Luffys are your flat characters who never change. They may learn a lesson or two or even how to do something better, but their cores never change, and the way you write that and make it interesting is by having those kinds of characters shape and change the world around them specifically BECAUSE of who they are and what they are like inherently. Giorno Giovanna is a very well done flat character arc because his support brought out the best in everyone around him. Without Giorno, nothing and no one would have changed.
Before a wach part 5, i was expecting a "Deus-X-Machina" at the final do to what people were talking about, but for me felt more like a "Chekhov's Gun" case, because the whole story upon this point was about the arrow, since part 4. If the arrow would not be used, it would be weird.
Also, GiGi character type worked, because his idea is similar to charcters like Ferris Bueller or Goku: They provoke the change around him, but do't change at all. (PS: Vegeta won't be that deep of a charcter if Goku let Krillin kill him) ; )
I think one of the issues is. It’s kinda impossible for the polnareff connection since polnareff didn’t want to be discovered by diavolo to be alive since he controls the communication of phones and the like
Thanks for this Giorno is one my favorite Jojo's along with Josuke. He is a character who has sides of his heritage, a heart like Jonathan and darkness like Dio. He wants to live in a better world, but he doesn't know how to go about it. This is until he meets Bruno then he sees how Bruno shares the same values as him and joins him. A lot of people say Giorno doesn't get enough development, but did Josuke or Joylne get a lot of development? No. His chemistry with the rest of the group is great. I just wish he had come back for part 6
@@BetterCaulipowerSall-vq9yn Did I say no development? I just said get a lot. Like seriously why do y'all have to go so hard when no one agrees with your opinion?
Sorry to say this but you'll get at least 20 replies from Jolyne fans who think she's such a _deep_ character. And there's prob gonna be some Johnny stan defending him even tho you didn't even mention him
Here’s my take on giorno before I get into the video- He’s evidently a good kid. He recognizes there are bad and good people in the world. He knows you can never truly get rid of things like the mafia. So instead, he aspires to become the head of it to facilitate good in the world, and use it to get rid of really bad people. In all essence, giorno is quite literally the mixture of Jonathan and Dio, he’s got dio’s ruthlessness and planning nature, mixed with jonathans kindness and chivalrous tendencies. All in all they balance out to make a morally grey, true neutral character. He cares about those around him, while also understanding sacrifices need to be made sometimes for the good of all. Truthfully, while he’s not my favorite jojo, he’s got my upmost respect
I think he's also one of the only JoJo's in the main universe that actually kills the people he fights which is a trait he gets from Dio I know in the other parts the enemy's die but Johnathan and Joseph don't kill humans usually vampires and other creatures and neither does Jotaro he usually just knocks them out, I believe the only person he kills is Dio, and Josuke doesn't kill either, he doesn't really kill Kira or his dad but his dad was already a ghost but i guess you can say he kills the Rat Don't remember if Jolyne kills people which she probably does but that's cuz she's crazy,
I really like Giorno because of how much he is a break in tradition when it comes to the personalities of the protagonists. Sure, Jotaro before him was more of an introverted protagonist, but he was also standoffish, belligerent and had a hard-on for one-liners. Meanwhile, Giorno is quiet but not unfriendly and has a much easier time showing that he cares for the people around him, subtle as he may be about it. Giorno is also one of the few proactive protagonists in the series, being the first one to actively seek to change the status quo instead of reacting to someone else changing it
Giorno might not be the most dynamic or bombastic protagonist in JoJo, but I actually love that he takes more of a backseat and supporting/inspiring role to the (let's face it, more interesting) supporting cast - but ultimately comes on top himself. It's the perfect way to show both his cleverness, ambition, humility, and more subdued nature. You can interpret it through either his heroic or his villainous side. Did he find like-minded friends, become their healer, and inspire them to grow into their best selves in hopes of achieving a more just Italy? Or did cunningly attach himself to an established group with sympathetic ideals, let them do the bulk of the fighting, and then take power when he had the opportunity? Hell, I'm not even sure if Giorno himself knows! He blames himself when the janitor dies, he is visibly upset when Abbacchio dies, he outright cries when Narancia's soul vanished from his body, and the very end is extremely bittersweet with Giorno trembling over Bruno's death which he hid from Mista and the others. But ultimately, despite his compassionate nature, he still ruthlessly put their lives (and his own, to be fair) on the line to achieve his goal. You can't help but wonder if there's some internal conflict about it. Gosh, I wish we had gotten to see post-Part 5 Giorno. Jotaro's later incarnations were so much richer and more interesting to me than his Part 3 self, once he took on the "haunted mentor" role to the main cast. I can't help but feel that a Part 6 appearance from the gang-star with a heart of gold would have been magnificent.
@@Green-3c34y65vrbu I mainly focused on the "stoic protagonist" part. On the childhood trauma, I would've counted Sasuke, but he's not _the_ main protagonist of his series, so my only other choice from rote memory is Yusaku Fujiki.
They made a light reference to the fact that he’s half dio/half joestar in the first episode where he does good deeds and bad deeds at the same time. He steals a wallet a pickpocket just stole, gave it back to the girls, but stole money from them with Gold Experience (not wind btw). They made the reference to Dio with the fact that Giorno wanted to be the Top (King) Gangstar. They made the reference to him being half joestar because he wanted to be a GOOD Gangstar (again half good/half bad). Because him being half joestar, he completes the goal of Dio to rule the world due to the fact is he has good in his heart making him worthy of ruling (could be a reference to if Dio worked with the Joestars he would be unstoppable). Fate is on his side because he is MOSTLY good (joestar), and relentless in accomplishing the goal (DIO). He is the antithesis of Dio, almost like a parallel dimension Dio who was good. Where Dio’s power derived from taking life, Giorno’s power is to give it. His words inspired his team members to push forward, invigorating them and often helping them find a second wind. Dio used everyone to his gain, so does Giorno but in a completely different manner building them up as well. I can go on and on about how he is connected to Dio, but it was more nuanced which people have a harder time recognizing.
Ehh I don’t think Diavolo being the gangster that Giorno saved would have made sense. Part of Giorno’s whole goal for becoming head of the mafia is to stop selling drugs to kids, and he gained that mindset because that’s the same moral philosophy that the gangster he saved had. But that goes against what Diavolo is doing, so it really just doesn’t make sense thematically. The whole point of Giorno’s backstory is to establish the idea that even criminals, the literal lowest of society, have just as much and sometimes even more morality than regular people. That’s why Giorno has his dream of doing good and reforming society through the criminal underworld. Having it be Diavolo all along just undermines all of that. While I think it would have been better had there been more emotional stakes between Giorno and Diavolo, I don’t think that’s the way to do it.
And I think you're blatantly misunderstanding my point. My point was that Diavolo was saved by Giorno and thus would owe the kid a favor - Something that mobsters do, and Giorno could've seen that as the ideal capo. "Having it be Diavolo all along just undermines all of that." I love how you just say this, and don't explain it at all, especially when I established in my scenario that I explained more. You're not really saying anything of note here.
@@Mangakamen alright, guess I just won’t comment on your videos anymore. I wasn’t trying to convince you otherwise, I was giving my own thoughts on the matter.
Right, and I'm trying to respond to you and explain why it doesn't work. You're not explaining why having the Capo be Diavolo wouldn't work - All that stuff you stated can work with Diavolo, especially when I said in the video: "But it would also serve as a good narrative irony for both Giorno and Diavolo as characters. For Giorno, learning that the man he was after all this time to fulfill his dream was the same man that inspired him to become a gangster - the same man who not only took away the life of his friend Buccaratti, Abbacchio and Narancia - and learn that the man he looked up to, the one who had given him hope…" When you make a comment like you do, it signals that you're ignoring the dramatic irony part. Since I explained this. I find it to be funny that you're like "I won't comment on your videos any more" when I point out how your points don't make any sense in the context of the video. If you don't think Diavolo wouldn't work - Actually explain why. No where did I say you were trying to convince me - I was pointing out how your point doesn't make sense with what I said in the video.
As a power geek, I would’ve loved to see Giorno experimenting with his newfound abilities. He could’ve tested whether that snake anti-venom Idea would’ve worked in the background before he cured himself of Fugo’s gases. It’s really disappointing how many interesting ideas were introduced and never built upon. I once predicted Diovolo to think he was using his usual time skip to fly through the crew’s attacks before looking back and realizing “did that golden boy punch the soul out of me?!?!”. Because it was weird for Giorno to use that move on Bucciarati and for Araki ignore that it happened. I can understand wanting to scrap such a powerful move that gives one hit KO opportunities, but having it revealed in the first place like his relation to Dio will leave me so many questions and what ifs.
Admirable dreams, but he doesn't come of as a realistic person because the story focusses so much on it. Josuke was a lot more human, which made him likable and respectable to me. He also was at times out of his depths and struggling with enough Weakness to make it believable that he would fail. Giorno never feels like that. Any time he struggled, i thought," How is he getting out of it this time?(derogator)" While with Josuke, i thought,"Oh God, how is he going to get out of that?(endering)"
I loved how bit about how you study characters, learn what other people think about them, and try to understand why they came to the opinions tht they do.
Funny enough, Giorno being more of a support character is exactly what I like about him. We don't really see many protagonists willing to play in the sidelines, probably even less during the year that Golden Wind came out.
I think the problem people have with giorno is he don't have any kind of sauce like he don't have the cool aura of jotaro, he don't fun personallity like josuke and Joseph, he don't have the horny thoughts like Jonny and jolline and to make things worse everyone in Golden wind say giorno is the most wacky or the fun person to be around when we only see giorno having the same expression. Edit : I don't have nothing against silent characters since my favorite character is light, Sasuke and Megumi but all of them have something I can tell they are different while giorno don't have
The problem with Giorno is that he doesn’t have any real, personal motivation. Unlike the other Jojos, he doesn’t even have a family, and he barely develops a connection with any of the Part 5 gang outside of Bruno.
@@sssspiderhe has parents, he just doesn’t interact that much once growing up. he also has connections with other gang members like mista, abbachio, and narancia
I don't think it makes too much sense for Diavolo to be the one Giorno saves; how would he end up in a dangerous situation like that? King Crimson's megahacks make it ludicrous to assume that a rival gang would pose any personal threat to him, and at this point in time I think Passione would've been well developed to the point that he wouldn't be getting involved. Furthermore, Diavolo would've immediately recognised Giorno's stand ability awakening and most likely would've done something about that.
I do t get it when people say Giorno being a son of Dio isn’t expanded upon. A: What are you expecting? Nobody in the main cast know who Dio is. If a character who did know Dio were to accompany Giorno like Jotaro than Giorno would only be further pushed to the side. B: Giorno’s whole character is a combination of Jonathan and Dio. He’s a walking contraduction, with the blood of bitter rivals running through his cairns. If you look back on his actions, you always see the shadow of one or both of his fathers behind him.
"A: What are you expecting? Nobody in the main cast know who Dio is. If a character who did know Dio were to accompany Giorno like Jotaro than Giorno would only be further pushed to the side." Did I say the main cast? No, I said the two characters who had a connection with Dio - Diavolo and Polnareff "B: Giorno’s whole character is a combination of Jonathan and Dio. He’s a walking contraduction, with the blood of bitter rivals running through his cairns. If you look back on his actions, you always see the shadow of one or both of his fathers behind him." ... Right, but that doesn't make him a good character and that can be lost on a lot of people.
@@Mangakamen I wasn’t saying anything about the quality of Giorno’s character, just that his connections to Dio were deeper than you made them out to be. I understand most of your other points even if I don’t personally agree.
Right, but that's not what I was getting at - You can talk about how themematically Giorno can work, but themes are mostly subjective, and we're talking about the writing.
the reason why giorno being dios son not being expanded upon is explained by araki he states that, the readers would have expected that and if they expect it to happen and it happens he failed as a writer
I feel like the opening AMV having only clips of Giorno posing coolly after having defeated his enemies or being in the process of the final defeat of his enemy says everything about Giorno's character. there's no clips of a deep introspection that Giorno has with himself, no clips of Giorno suddenly jumping because of a loud sound, as it reminded him of the sound of his drunkard father coming home at night; this is because these scenes don't exist. all he is is a 'cool' and 'badass' figure with hardly more than one half of an intensely interesting character moment. (that being when he shakes instead of crying when Bruno's death is fully confirmed to him).
Nah. Giorno was upset when Black Sabbath killed the old man from his school, when he learned Bucciarati is a walking dead, was furious and disgusted at Chioccolata as a person etc. Maybe it's because my personality is similar and I can relate to him, I really don't think Giorno is as devoid of emotion as most claim he is. How I see it, we were presented his back story once and everything he does, we have to interpret in the context of his background. This same type of characterisation is used for the rest of the gang. If you want a very specific psychological profile and PTSD moments, Johnny and maybe Jonathan are the only JoJos where we know so much about them
@@zipperman255 I really don't think any of those moments are notable, seeing as every other JoJo protagonist would have reacted the same way to either of them. not to mention, Giorno being furious and disgusted at Cioccolata fell so flat as a narrative choice, considering he didn't know Cioccolata's backstory, which means he had no reason to be angrier at him than any other antagonist, like he would if he knew of his revolting past. Giorno should have only been as mad at Cioccolata as he is every other antagonist who defeats Mista.. which is most of them.
@@Green-3c34y65vrbu His reactions are the bare minimum. I would say "reserved" but I realise how most ppl perceive it. I wasn't making a case for "Giorno is the most emotional JoJo" but "Giorno isn't emotionless". Personally I think it makes him unique from other JoJos how much he bottles up his emotions But Ciocco infected a village with Green Day mold and was going to do it with all of Rome. He gave a speech how others despair and suffering is his favourite source of happiness. Even though Giorno didn't know C's history as a surgeon and tormenting elderly people, he had good reasons to believe C is a sick individual who deserves his rage. If you think Giorno is as interesting as white bread that's fine. I have my limitations on how much I will defend a fictional character
Muda muda muda! I agree that Giorno could have had more meat in character development. I surmise that mayhaps for araki around the time of writing out how he wanted events and the over all plot to go, he had these subtle plot points to actually tie in such a important staple in character writing but he may also have had a hard time finding a way to implement this without as you mentioned making Giorno stand out too much while Giorno is also trying to be low key and seem like a true green horn of the Mafia and i think though this is such a neat idea, it really caused such a suffocating stifle in the fact he's a Joestar, and Joestars always are supposed to shine bright in their own way. Giorno was then put in a pickle and on top of that a crippling time crunch. Not giving Araki more time to properly flush out the true potential within what I think is the most fun, enticing and expansive character dynamic within writing. Because of the Dio and Jonathan dynamic and how many ties this important idea plays overall in JoJo. It could go in SO MANY DIRECTIONS that it's unbelievably vast. If Araki today could "rewrite" Golden Wind but keeping nearly all of it the same. I am 100% sure with his new found writing experience from the future parts he made after 5 Giorno Giovanna would become a very well loved and cherished by many as one of the greats in the Joestar bloodline. And I am so thirsty for Araki to go back and make this wish a reality that it's probably unhealthy. Hell I would have loved La Squadra to have had more character development and screen time in some places too. There's so much potential in Golden Wind and that's why it's tied in my number 1 spot along side Part 7. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
Honestly I think it would've been fine if after Bruno turning against Diavolo we would've had Giorno slowly take a more upfront, de-facto leader role in the story, it would've worked even more to highlight how he inspired and influenced others (Trish, Mista, Narancia and maybe Bruno were already affected by him in the current version of the story, his shift into becoming a leader would just expand on that and work hand in hand with this). Initially, him being the guy acting from the background makes sense, yes, even in the sense of him showing a quality of a true leader (helping his fellow team members shine first), but he really only needed to keep a low profile while being part of Passione. Once Bruno betrayed Diavolo, anyone joining him would have a target on their back, so there would be no point in keeping a low profile now. But there's just so long till being the low profile support starts being at the detriment of your character. Staying in that role for too long caused him to miss out of many chances to prove his worthiness as the next Mafia boss and as the guy chosen by the Requiem arrow. So honestly we could've had Bruno revealing his death to Giorno a bit earlier (maybe offscreen so the surprise is kept for the audience), Giorno taking charge after the betrayal to Diavolo, seeing that someone needs to do it due to bruno's deteriorating condition and also as a chance to get in a position to set himself up as the next Boss, and everyone being initially skeptical, but slowly starting to admire and respect him as the new leader. As you said, we could've also had Polnareff introduced a bit earlier and having a beef with GioGio over his ties to Dio, while Giorno would just not care about his father being a bad guy, showing how he is the opposite of Diavolo, who is obssessed with his past, and then we could've had Polnareff see why our Golden boy is nothing like his father, probably through Giorno being genuinely kind and humble to everyone and only being ruthless to scum worthy of it, like Cioccolata and Diavolo. I just hate the lack of characterization of Giorno (not the character himself, I think he is kinda cool as is) cuz it hurts rven more due to the final moment where the story wants to suggest that he was chosen by the arrow, by fate itself, as worthy.
These types of video are always very interesting. It’s great that you take the time to explain a character instead of just reading the surface level aspects of them.
I'm not trying to 'defend' the Dio references/call backs per say but a big part of Araki's thought process when writing Giorno was "What if Dio was good?" I personally like the occasional muda/wry/posing like dio/etc, it's like a little in-joke between Araki and the fans.
Giorno was also sort of a weird Jojo for me, Johnathan was chivalrous and Noble, Joseph was playful and mischievous, Jotaro was stoic and serious and Josuke was polite but also violent and short tempered, their personalities were pretty easily defeind. Giorno always felt kind of weird at times to me. Like he's introduced stealing money from people, but does use some of the money to help others, then robs Koichi and sells all his stuff with a half assed apology, yet also has noble qualities like loyalty to his crew and drive to his dream. I don't know, he just feels kind of bland compared to the other Jostars.
Uuuuhhhhh... You mean he is complex and has many sides? Sounds just more interesting than a one trick Pony. I mean all JoJos are great but not understanding that people can have more than 2 adjectives to describe them doesn't mean he's a bad protagonist.
@@QT-oc9rn It's more his personality is pretty basic, he's loyal, cares about his friends and is fairly smart and wants to be a gangster, that's a pretty standard Shonen personality.
I mean Giorno did say to himself he fully intended to give Koichi back his passport. That kinda makes up for it in my mind because it shows he is still considerate of others
I dont think Jotaro couldve contacted Polnareff, since Polnareff couldnt talk to anyone on the phone since the passione had control over the entire communication, so, Polnareff couldnt contact Jotaro to come help him, also, if Jotaro somehow contacted Polnareff, it would makes sense for Jotaro to come help, instead of letting Pol die. I dont think there was a way for Jotaro to talk to Polnareff unfortunetly
Around 8:29 - Bare in mind Jotaro would have no way to contact Polnareff because that's the whole crux of his character in Part 5, he's been forced into hiding trapped in Italy all these year since his utter defeat by Diavolo/King Crimson. Though it is just a hypothetical and could be played out differently, Polnareff clearly has access to lots of hidden information when he first contacts the gang so you could just say he found several clues to Giorno's identity but didn't put it all together till some later time like after meeting him or watching him fight. However because Giorno doesn't have much of an opinion on Dio, seeing as he barely knows anything about him, instead of Polnareff confronting Giorno on it have something playing out like Polnareff witnesses the fight between Giorno and Choclatta and that's where he realizes the familial connection but also sees Giorno punishing that inarguably evil b@$tard deciding Giorno didn't follow his father's path.
It may be just me, but I felt like I understood his character immediately. Giorno is a man who takes gambles and risks, but he never leaves things to chance. He will exhaust every option in a scenario if it means getting the W.
I think that a large part of why Giorno comes across as boring is also because of this weird desire to make him a total paragon who all his gangmates warm up to and is super agreeable while also wanting to make the story about the mafia and fill the main cast with scummy criminal types. It plants him (and the cast as a whole but especially Giorno) in the middle of two contradictory ideas. Like I think that part 5 is weak overall but really the only one of the main cast who successfully lands as a "ruthless mafioso with a hidden heart of gold" is Abacchio, the others are lacking in the edge and could have been just "not mafia members". Jonathan is also a paragon but many people have grown to appreciate his character in part because his gentlemanliness and noble personality is simply wholesome. Ironically Jonathan having fewer flaws would make for some more interesting scenes. Jonathan wouldn't for instance let his friends torture a guy just to get back at him, and if they wanted to the scene would center on him trying to talk them out of it. To Giorno, the act is such a non-issue he doesn't even appear in it. Same goes with most of the big moments that are intended to be emotional, like the group risking breaking up has everyone get some big moment but Giorno is just like, "Oh, Fugo is leaving, that's a shame. But I'm going to pursue the boss. Okay, Narancia, your turn." Even Giorno's dream of becoming a gangster, it's the core of his character but it's really not really that impactful. "Giorno Giovanna has a dream" is pretty much his only character trait and the backstory as to WHY he has that dream is given less actual significance than Josuke's motivation for wearing a pompadour. Like he has his dream but the question is what exactly does he intend to do when he gets it? The only answer we're given is, "Basically the same thing as what was happening before, except the [off-screen] drug selling is stopped." It makes his dream come across as a flimsy excuse for the plot. Since the audience isn't really given a good reason as to why they want to see Giorno achieve his dream, it makes the line that is his catch phrase seem irrelevant.
It does make me question about why he drew the line at children getting drug but not every other illegal activity controlled by the mafia that children can get into.
@@owo4288Probably because children don't have the will to fight off addiction Also you wouldn't go to a child to get someone dead, but they could easily buy drugs
@@owo4288 A fair point, and i'll concede on that explanation Still though, i think Giorno's point is more keeping children out of crime all together, its just that drugs is what we see most often(thanks to Bruno Bucciarti) My reason is because Giorno is someone who very much seems to want to keep innocent individuals uninvolved as much as he can, hence why he killed polpo, and gave the 7 page Muda too Chocolatta
@@mopettetm8220 ....You do remember it takes 9 months for a baby to born after conception right? What do you think happened between the Months Dio banged Giorno's mom and his birth?
I can understand where you are coming from. But I still can't agree that Giorno is not a bad character. When you listed all the reasons why he was mandatory for Part 5 to work, it didn't really convince me that he was integral because of who he is, but only because of what he can do. He is important because the plot needs him to, rather than him servicing the story in any way. Take away Giorno and all of the situations made for him, and have his story mended into Bucciarati's, and you would have a more consistent story that has more 3D characters. That's my view on it, but I think you did a great job at least exposing the underlying problems.
Personally, I liked Giorno as a character, but I also didn't like the support cast in part 5 (except Bucchiarati, he's a GOAT), so it was easier for me to ignore problems with him as the MC when I would rather watch him than the grumpy cop, the the guy with a gun and the angry brat. And the most interesting stand from a dynamic perspective, the poison stand, ran away mid-season. Seeing someone with friendly fire turned on fight in the group would've been interesting.
Giorno is undeniably a pretty good character but there’s a lot of missed opportunities in the writing relating to him but at least out of all the jostars he had the best rush out of all of them.🐱
i think my big problem with giorno is that he´s too stoic and he never had doubts on his journey, while bucciaratti he just not moved the plot, but also was the mother figure to everyone on the group(especially to narancia and fugo).
Giorno is like a Gaffer; extremely important but never seen and I think that's an issue because he's supposed to be a protagonist. Hell at the end of the day we know more about Fugo then Giorno (thought that might be because Shameless Purple Haze made people want to know more in mainline material)
Maybe he misunderstood.... maybe. But maybe he's also just not as interesting as other Jojos 🤔 Also doesn't help to be sandwitched in the middle of the otherwise absolute banger streak of Stardust Crusaders, Diamond is Unbreakable, Stone Ocean and Steel Ball Run, all of which are better than Golden Wind and have amazing protagonists. Part 5 feels like the most side story-y Araki ever got with a full Jojo part. It doesn't really key off of any other part nor does it really affect anything that happens after. It's just it's own thing.
It really is interesting how you sometimes can see glimpses of both Jonathan and Dio in Giorno. It also would've been interesting to see if the story would still be the same if Giorno was a girl.
I just finished watching everything up until golden wind and i honestly thought diavolo was going to be that mysterious guy that giorno saved and looked up To. Was kinda disappointed when it wasnt. And even though i enjoyed giorno and josukes episodes, they did get slightly outshined by the other allies. The dio relation should have been flushed out more during giornos episodes
Honestly Giorno is the definition of a flat character and there's nothing much to the guy, my biggest problem has always been is that he's suppose to be the protagonist but gets side lined massively. I will say the idea of Giorno meeting and saving Diavolo when he was a kid in my opinion is such a cool concept and I felt most definitely could've added a lot more to the story as part 5 always felt soulless. I don't necessarily hate part 5 but my god the villains even have more screen time than the main cast, which can definitely work with the whole weekly release but overall since the story continues they're forgotten and become a foot note. In this regard part 3 excels with its cast of characters, plus we do get more moments with the group as a whole and interact a heck of a lot more, as suppose to part 5 in which we don't have them interact as much. What I'm more or less trying to say is that they all needed more screen time, Giorno especially since he's always been boring and unlike Jotaro when it comes to fights he's not half as entertaining when it comes to his fights, like people say Jotaro's boring but he's got way more character than Giorno.
MUDA! I'm willing to bet that a lot of the writing issues or shortcomings of Part 5 stem from it being made during a low point in Araki's life. Compared to other parts, the one thing I tend to hear about Part 5 is that suffered from rewrites that likely altered parts of the overall story (I.e. I remember a theory going around that the Seven Page Muda was originally intended for Fugo back when he was intended to be a double agent). It wouldn't surprise me if Araki ALSO had the idea to make Diavolo the mafioso (or alternatively, the man who killed the mafioso) that Giorno saved as a kid, only to change it for similar reasons as the change he made to Fugo's arc
I like how you mention being a static character isn't bad because it's the traits of Giorno that remains the same to be interesting. Mention how he is ruthless and yet is the one to support friends and care for others are the two traits from Dio and Jonathan. The true product of the combination. And as for requiem, you can argue, deus ex machina, but it is the irony of Giorno being all powerful, as oppose to Dio trying to achieve being all powerful, it's just the heart of Giorno is the same as Jonathan that contrast Dio. Having that info and relate it to the story really gives an understanding why Giorno gets GER. The missed opportunity section is very spot on of what could've been, but generally, I agree he's not the best protagonist or the worst. Misunderstood is a good way to put, good job MangaKamen.
MUDA! As far as GER as a Deus Ex Machina, I'd say no. Deus Ex Machina implies that the resolution to the plot comes out of nowhere, that god has come out of the machine to magically solve the plot. That isn't GER at all. Not only was the Requiem Arrow implied to have powers beyond that of a normal stand arrow, we saw what it was capable of with Silver Chariot Requiem. The entire final fight is more about keeping the arrow away from Diavolo than it is about confronting him directly, and the act that puts the arrow in Giorno's hands is a final self-sacrifice from Bucciarati, as he puts his faith in Giorno. GER is the payoff for both that act of trust, and all of the people who were lost to get to this point, and as such GER is just the natural progression of the plot that just so happened to be a broken stand power.
+1 MUDA on the like button towards that 5K goal But fr I would have loved the idea of Diavolo being revealed as the same mafia guy that Giorno saved as a kid to actually give the two a better connection than mainly just having Diavolo as an obstacle towards his goal
Part 5 is my favorite part 7 good, but not my fav my second fav is part 2 But unlike part 2 where i love it cuz of Joseph, but part 5 i like it cuz of all the "side" characters, and there history not cuz of Giorno
Personally, I found Girono an alright JoJo when compared to his peers. Part 5 is in my top 3 parts but it’s not because of Giorno, characters like Johnny and Joseph are more appealing to me in terms of personality and ability. However, I can see why Giorno is liked by the community.
It is kinda Funny that Diavolo caused his own defeat by giving out the arrows, its like fate coming back to bite him. The arrows caused a lot problems after being handed to Enya, Awakening Dio's Stand thus Awakening the Joestars stands, Eventually Dio will be defeated but his sons will live on, one of these sons being Giorno who happens to be in Italy where Diavolo resides and soon will be dethroned and punished in an infinite death thanks to his past actions long ago.
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how to muda
*Griffith has the same goal as giorno, griffith did nothing wrong*
I really like that idea you have about Diavolo being the same guy Giorno saved all those years ago. It's possibly true due to how Diavolo is very sensitive about his identity and likes to disguise himself.
Can you make the Right and Wrong ways to make a Rival: Kamen Rider Edition
As someone who enjoys morally-shaded protagonists, I love Giorno. He has the kind heart of the Joestars, but the ruthlessness of DIO. It makes him more interesting, compelling and even human, since everyone has a dark side.
I would say darkness, everyone else after Jonathan is ruthless
He’s not even that ruthless, he just turns the golden rule back on people. If you’re good he’ll even help you, and punish you to the varying levels of evil you might be
@@HonerableG He kills, something most Joestars don't do. Joseph, Jonathan and Johnny kill. Jotaro, Josuke and Joylne don't, but will beat them down hard.
I don’t remember which video I saw about Giorno, but it said that he is a Jonathan trying to be a Dio.
@@mandalorianhunter1 Josuke would leave some foes with a fate worse than death. Just ask Angelo or the Enigma kid.
One thing I remember from TV Tropes is the fact someone put Giorno in the Good Powers, Bad People category, citing him specifically as "both appearance and personality-wise, a practically exact copy of his father, Dio Brando, and his main goal in life is taking over the mafia, with any person standing in his way being just another target to manipulate to join his side (if they're useful) or annihilate. His Stand ability, rather than be a proof of his heroism, symbolises his inability to see the difference between people and ''things'' for him to use, and any living thing born from his powers is sure to be disposed of when it can no longer provide him help. Notably, his Requiem Stand's main power is to no sell any enemy Stand's attacks and subject the enemy to a fate worse than death.". It's since been removed, with the remover pointing out that's completely wrong, but it makes me wonder how the story would've gone if Giorno were exactly like that? Would he end up being the true final boss himself?
*Griffith has the same goal as giorno, griffith did nothing wrong it's all for the dream and the resolve bro*
I honestly feel like that's , in some small part, what Giorno and the whole Part as a whole are missing.
For a story focused around joining and climbing the ranks of the italian mafia, there's very little morally gray stuff that happens.
It would have been interesting to see Giorno actually have to choose between sacrificing his morals and achieving his dream in the long run.
Really testing how much of his soul he was willing to sacrifice for his goal, another parallel to Dio
Yeah if anything he belongs in almost the exact opposite trope. Dio manipulating life was something he did as a vampire, but Giorno uses his Golden Experience to heal and help people. And he's not nearly as cruel with his creations like Dio would be.
That... sounds interesting not going to lie despite not what happens. But damn does that not sound like good Fanfic Fuel.
@@georgemeyers7172that was already done in spoiler alert
Jorge joestar.
I will always remember how some Yugioh fan claimed Yuya Sakaki was the best anime protagonist while claiming Giorno was one of the worst protagonists. It was on a video titled "Sakaki Yusho Carded".
People considered Yuya the best anime protag!?
That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Idk how anyone could have that opinion when he isn't even the best yugioh protag
Even YUMA was a better YuGiOh protagonist than Yuya
@@lordapex5288screw you, Yuma was a great protagonist
It’s ironic considering they have the same jp va. But manga Yuya is easily a top 3 yugioh mcs
Yusei>Judai and Yami> Others
I like giorno because he acts super tough but every time we get into his head hes screaming
I don't think araki held the "this is a kid trying to be a gangster" angle long enough
hes still really cool tho.
We're currently getting that angel with jodio, hopefully he doesn't drop it half way.
For real though hahaha. I remember vividly the change of perception I had of Giorno, watching him finesse his way through Koichi and Luca and then Bruno comes along and the mask promptly falls off.
I do like how the opposed traits interact though - I get the impression he’s able to remain ambitious and outwardly stone cold precisely *because* of his 24/7 survivalist mindset.
The thing about the random capo Giorno saved is supposed to be a representation of humanity that a random person can bring compassion in a world of darkness and giorno like this man wants to bring out that same compassion if it turned out to be diavolo that symbolism just goes down the drain.
Not really it doesn't, because it can also show that even a scumbag can have a good point to them... Ya know, kinda like how Giorno views mobsters, actual criminals, can have honor and help others.
You don't actually explain anything here.
Can’t imagine someone as pathologically secretive as diavolo randomly helping some kid from the shadows tho - he totally would think his being saved backs up his surpassing fate thingo but that’d be where it ends surely, he wouldn’t keep risking himself by tying himself to some kid. Especially not lingering nearby as it’s shown, all opinion of course but doesn’t seem the type
@@Mangakamen it being diavolo feels really out of character for Diavolo however
Diavolo is first and foremost a man concerned with keeping his identity a secret, so why would he stick around after being saved
@@MangakamenStill feels too out of character for Diavolo, and also against the final fight wanting to emphasize how Diavolo is such a scumbag that he is completely unworthy of the arrow, and also is an opposite of Giorno.
Diavolo turning out to be the one to help Giorno would just make the story bashing him with the "You aren't worthy" hammer kinda awkward, cuz then it would also mean that Giorno, the guy supposedly worthy of it... was trying to be more like someone who isn't. It just won't add up.
Oh and the entire reason Giorno goes after Diavolo is cuz he controls an entire drug trade business. Won't make sense for him to be the guy killing a mafioso for peddling drugs.
I can see the thing you said about him not being a paranoid control freak before becoming the boss, but becoming one because of a near-death encounter as a Capo, make sense, but the rest only coming up after his ascension to boss just doesn't add up, especially in the context of him already being established to be ruthless enough to burn his entire home-village down, at a point where he wasn't a mafia boss, so he has to be this selfish, ruthless, apathetic scum, but somehow also honorable enough to help a kid who saved his life, even though he would gain nothing from it. Still doesn't add up. If we bring in Doppio, he doesn't even match the look, and is also a bit too timid to fit the personality, and ofc also obedient to Diavolo, who probably won't let him go out of his way to do this either.
I'llbe honest, I do like your idea, but I can't really see it fitting with the rest of the pieces of this story.
12:00 I personally don't care for those rumblings myself. I far more prefer the idea that Josuke never knew the man who saved him, but was left with such an impact that he respects the memory of that man by fashioning his appearance after him, over the idea of a stable time loop "I saved myself and modeled my look after myself" thing.
i also despise this fandom collective headcanon that Josuke "saved himself through a time-loop."
@@Legomicroman Same with "Star Platinum is Jonathan"
I feel like it may have actually been intended to be Josuke. I mean the guy looks just like Josuke and the being injured and randomly out in a snow storm does make believe that heavily as well. Add in that being stuck in a time loop happened at the end of the story. But I think this was changed because Araki may have been stuck with the if Josuke modeled himself after his future self then who did the first version of Josuke model himself after dilemma.
@@mysteriousweebx7037 Maybe the guy looked like Josuke because... duh... they share the same hairstyle, also both of them being students. And if you watch closely, Josuke's uniform is more personalized with items that represents him while the savior's uniform was almost generic. The time loop thing was never in the plans of Araki and he also confirmed this
@@il3fortunato664 Sure the uniform is slightly different but uniforms changing in seasons is a common thing in Japan. Add in that the guy even has the same ear piercing as Josuke. Again the biggest mystery is why some random teen guy was heavily injured and out in a snow storm in the middle of nowhere.
Imma say it again pucci should’ve been giorno villain it could’ve done so well with the connection of dio and so on
Naw you have to rewrite ally of stuff for the next part for that to work so naw
@@xzkilerymax8395 no I know
I don’t really like that kind of “X character from future part of the series should have been earlier.” There’s a clear reason why that isn’t the case, Araki didn’t think of it yet. If he thought of it, he would have done it.
@@Pikaman20008 true but it does it make sense though
It's quite clear by now that Araki kinda regrets making GER, because he had to completely write it out of the story not long after it's been written in.
It’s a shame we never got to see a cameo of him in Stone Ocean along with the Morioh Gang, it would have been interesting to see their reactions to the rebirth of the universe.
The tone shift when you called him opportunistic is funny. I enjoy how he is as ruthless as DIO but is one who treasures life like Jonathon.
Muda Muda.
I always remembered thinking how extremely fortunate that even though he had a crappy upbringing, he is still way much nicer and kinder than we take him credit for. That despite of course he is known to be absolutely cold and shows no mercy to his enemies, he is still very sympathetic, polite, calm and more patient with those he truly cares for. Like the other teen JoJos in the main storyline, they have their own versions of this trait. They come off as tough, intentionally wanting to intimidate. But when push comes to shove, or if you befriend them. You would come to know that their hearts are caring, loyal and true.
Criminal aspects aside, his morals are still genuinely heroic to a degree. He could have completely lost his way to the much darker side, Literally be even more of a menace if he was more on the evil side with his awakened powers. But he didn't. While he clearly does reflect a Dio side, he possesses some sort of elegance still.
I don't think I remember feeling much of that in the Manga. But I definitely think that The Anime surely added some more flair and personality to him. Even though just a little bit.
I think diavolo as the gangster wouldnt work and that's because of one reason. The mafioso when confronted about his dad being killed clearly is shown to despise that he sold drugs to kids and woman. The drug trade is a big part why the gang is so big and we're shown multiple time that passione doesnt mind selling drugs to whoever is willing to pay.
I've always liked his goals/dream and how his path to achieve them went down plus his power is dope before the arrow boost too.
The reason the Dio Johnathan stuff isn’t brought up is because he wouldn’t care, and that is why he is a good contrast with Diovolo. Diavolo hides in the shadows unable to embrace both sides of himself at once and dies because he literally left Doppio behind. Giorno understands the need to use both simultaneously to bring out their full potential, thus rectifying the mistakes of Johnathan and Dio and becoming his own person . A literal symbol of rebirth that sheds light on the lives of those around him. That’s why I actually think it’s integral to his character that he not know about his lineage at least before part five.
Which make me question why does he even carry around that photo of DIO in the first place aside from letting the audience know?
@@owo4288in eyes of heaven and asbr he always wanted to know who dio is.
I dont remember what video i saw this line in but its so accurate
"Giorno Giovanna is a Jonathen in a Dio environment"
Thank you for this. In irl terms sometimes you have to give up the “I’m the main character of my life” syndrome to take a back seat and empower the awesome people around you. Giorno is such a good representation of that and that’s why I’ve always loved him as a character. He’s such an inspiration in that way
You're entitled to your opinions, but I think the idea of Dio (and other links to past parts) being more present and the idea of Diavolo being the man Giorno saved are both really bad. They both makes the world seem jokingly small, with like 12 characters living in it and keeping bumping into each other.
Giorno's being Dio's son and having several interaction with characters from the previous parts make him less of a character, he's not "Giorno Giovanna, part 5 protag" and more "Giorno Giovanna, part 3 bad guy's son". It also undermines the themes of found family and being able to overcome your fate, when the part feels the need to obsess over his blood father while having 0 relation with him aside from a picture in his wallet.
Diavolo being the man Giorno saved would feel cheap I feel. Just like the part 4 flashback you mentionned, Jojo is filled with small moments where random acts of kindness from strangers is what define humanity in Jojo (which is said by Araki to be the main theme of the manga) as good and righteous. Looping them back constantly as "Oh, that's actually Josuke who time travelled" or "Oh, that's actually the guy you saved as a child" undermines not only the stated theme of the manga, but also the believability of the world. Moreover, it kinda fucks Giorno's motivation. Giorno's motivation to be part of the mafia is through the prism of "these powerful criminals can use their influence to improve the state of their community", by getting rid of drug being sold to kids for example. That gangster Giono saved helped him in return, and became almost like a father figure to him (more than Dio or his step dad ever was). Being revealed to be Diavolo all along just for a cheap twist doesn't really improve their relationship in any way. Moreover, I feel like giving a clear backstory (or part of one at least) to Diavolo undermines what makes him great. If you know who he was, then he become just another criminal stand user, which we've already seen a lot along the part
"Giorno's being Dio's son and having several interaction with characters from the previous parts make him less of a character, "
But that's not what I said... at all. I only said two characters, and it'd be only one character that's from a previous part who was a part of this part. This is twisting my words.
" Moreover, it kinda fucks Giorno's motivation. Giorno's motivation to be part of the mafia is through the prism of "these powerful criminals can use their influence to improve the state of their community", by getting rid of drug being sold to kids for example. That gangster Giono saved helped him in return, and became almost like a father figure to him (more than Dio or his step dad ever was). Being revealed to be Diavolo all along just for a cheap twist doesn't really improve their relationship in any way. Moreover, I feel like giving a clear backstory (or part of one at least) to Diavolo undermines what makes him great. If you know who he was, then he become just another criminal stand user, which we've already seen a lot along the part"
No it doesn't. I even explained how this could work as a dramatic irony, and actually expand upon Diavolo - Showing at one time he had honor, but had become corrupted and thus Giorno would strive to be better.
I don't agree with your comment, and honestly I find it a bit reductive to what I actually said in the video, especially that first point where you had twisted what I said.
@@Mangakamen I don't think I twisted your argument, I'm just disagreeing with you.
You complained about the lack of relevance of Giorno's being Dio's son, which is (at least in my opinion, don't accuse me of being disingenuous), what I mean when I say he would become less of his own character and more just a vehicule for the story to bring back elements of previous parts.
For the last point, I don't understand how you disagree that it shows who he was just to afterward tell me that it shows who he was before being corrupted
"You complained about the lack of relevance of Giorno's being Dio's son, which is (at least in my opinion, don't accuse me of being disingenuous), what I mean when I say he would become less of his own character and more just a vehicule for the story to bring back elements of previous parts"
But that had nothing to do with what I said - You literally said "Giorno's being Dio's son and having several interaction with characters from the previous parts make him less of a character,"
I only brought up Polenareff - a character who is prominent in this part on his own accord, and how to actually tie in his past with Giorno's father.
This is literally the only connection to a past part in that regard, and wouldn't make Giorno less of a character.
"For the last point, I don't understand how you disagree that it shows who he was just to afterward tell me that it shows who he was before being corrupted"
I don't understand this sentence. I literally explained this would be a dramatic irony.;
Remove the time travel part and say "Oh, that's actually Kira who saved Josuke" to make the same point about unnecessary connections a little better. Also, the rest of Jojos are a lot more than just "part x good guy's descendant" so I don't see the reason not to make connections with Dio stronger. It's not that the world is small, it's that Dio's influence is big
I remember hearing that Araki wasn't in tye best headspace while writing part 5. Some sources claim it played a big part in Fugo changing from traitor to deserter, since Araki didn't want the emotional weight placed on Bucciarati for that.
Honestly I can respect that.
@@limptoast Glad we got Ciocolatta instead, one of the most satisfying villain defeats in the series.
araki had a very tough moment in his life when writing part 5, that’s why he deemed fugo being a traitor too much. tho if he was a villain, he would be terrifying. he could kill the whole town with no problem
Gold Experience is the official name, Golden Wind is the unofficial name used in the English dub to avoid any copyright issues
Giorno in my opinion represents the missed potential Part 5 had storywise. I mean, for a story focused on joing and climbing the ranks of the mafia there's very few moments where Giorno's conviction and morals are tested.
Because that would have really explored if he was more Joestar or Brando or maybe a little of both.
How much of his soul was he willing to sacrifice to achieve his dream? How many concessions on his ethics and morals is he willing to make to get what he wants?
It would have been an interesting parallel to both Dio and Diavolo.
Showing us that maybe there are lines Giorno *wouldn't* cross
18:24 yeah but considering that was Cioccolata, the psychopath who attempted to annihilate entire Rome it was more than deserved
I do wonder if the other Sons of Dio will get their own video.
Me too
With you stating Giorno is the support instead of the leader, I'm somehow reminded of Kamen Rider Decade, given how his Final Story claims he's supposed to be support for the AR Riders, helping their stories progress either as the hero or the villain, and the whole of him being the "Destroyer of Worlds" is basically him taking oit the Riders of the AR Worlds with the meta excuse that in doing so, the memories of the Riders and their stories would live on, bringing them back from death; however, because Decade has no world or enemies of his own-his enemies are old or modernized versions of past Riders-he has no real story of his own, and thus no memories to bring him back... until he'a revived by the memories of the AR Riders themselves.
While I like the idea of Diavolo being the man who Giorno saved from a narrative standpoint, I’m hesitant to think of Diavolo being willing to return the favor as in character.
If Giorno had saved Diavolo the guy would’ve just went on with his life, left the mini Gangstar with the awful life he had and he never would’ve risen to beat him.
I don't agree with that. Mafia, even Diavolo, have a thing about debt and loyalty to them - Hell, Diavolo was willing to have Pericolo live a lavish life for his loyalty.
I think you're viewing this as a bit too black and white and assuming that this would be the only change made.
@@Mangakamen Hitmen were loyal to him before, didn't work out very well
1. One thing most people don't talk about is that Giorno and Diavolo's roles in the story are reversed.
Giorno, the protagonist, is *active* and a force of change.
Whereas Diavolo, the antagonist, is entirely *reactive* and is looking to maintain the status quo
2. The protagonists and antagonists in Jojo not having a meaningfull connection, despite them being thematic opposites, is kind of a consistent thing
Seriously, outside of Dio and Jonathan none of the Jojos have any sort of meaningfull relationship with the villain that makes it even more personal.
Joseph had more of a connection with Wamuu
DIO had more of a personal grudge against Joseph and vice versa and Polnareff defying Dio after being enslaved by him once was more compelling
Kira was more afraid of Jotaro than Josuke
Diavolo had more of a rivalry against Bruno than Giorno
Pucci and Weather Report's relationship was the most compelling part of their respective characters
Johnny and Diego had a great rivalry, whereas Valentine was more of an outside force that moved the plot
Gappy/Josuke 8 had way more interactions with Jobin and Tamaki than he did Toru
There are three primary directions that a character arc can go, a positive change in learning and growing as a person and becomes the best/better version of themselves. The negative character arc where someone declines into their worst tendencies and falls into a worse place mentally and emotionally. But Giorno is the third type. The flat character. Sure even flat characters can learn and grow in some ways, but the core of who they are stays rigid and never wavers for a moment.
To take a page from TotallyNotMark's analysis videos, Frieza goes through a negative character arc across the Namek saga, all the way to his death at the start of the Cell Saga. His worst impulses lead to his end. But in Super he actually enters a positive arc. He doesn't become a good person. Not at all. But he holds back those impulses that did nothing to help him, and starts handling problems in ways he never would have before. He became a better, more superior evil than he was on Namek.
Meanwhile your Gokus and your Luffys are your flat characters who never change. They may learn a lesson or two or even how to do something better, but their cores never change, and the way you write that and make it interesting is by having those kinds of characters shape and change the world around them specifically BECAUSE of who they are and what they are like inherently. Giorno Giovanna is a very well done flat character arc because his support brought out the best in everyone around him. Without Giorno, nothing and no one would have changed.
Before a wach part 5, i was expecting a "Deus-X-Machina" at the final do to what people were talking about, but for me felt more like a "Chekhov's Gun" case, because the whole story upon this point was about the arrow, since part 4. If the arrow would not be used, it would be weird.
Also, GiGi character type worked, because his idea is similar to charcters like Ferris Bueller or Goku: They provoke the change around him, but do't change at all.
(PS: Vegeta won't be that deep of a charcter if Goku let Krillin kill him) ; )
I think one of the issues is. It’s kinda impossible for the polnareff connection since polnareff didn’t want to be discovered by diavolo to be alive since he controls the communication of phones and the like
Thanks for this
Giorno is one my favorite Jojo's along with Josuke. He is a character who has sides of his heritage, a heart like Jonathan and darkness like Dio.
He wants to live in a better world, but he doesn't know how to go about it. This is until he meets Bruno then he sees how Bruno shares the same values as him and joins him.
A lot of people say Giorno doesn't get enough development, but did Josuke or Joylne get a lot of development? No.
His chemistry with the rest of the group is great. I just wish he had come back for part 6
Jolyne got a solid amount of development though
@@mopettetm8220 I'm talking about insane development, she is the same person but gets some moments of improvement or acknowledgement.
@@mandalorianhunter1 Can I have some of what you're smoking? Jolyne is like, the most developed JoJo other than Johnny
@@BetterCaulipowerSall-vq9yn Did I say no development? I just said get a lot. Like seriously why do y'all have to go so hard when no one agrees with your opinion?
Sorry to say this but you'll get at least 20 replies from Jolyne fans who think she's such a _deep_ character. And there's prob gonna be some Johnny stan defending him even tho you didn't even mention him
yeah
Here’s my take on giorno before I get into the video-
He’s evidently a good kid. He recognizes there are bad and good people in the world. He knows you can never truly get rid of things like the mafia. So instead, he aspires to become the head of it to facilitate good in the world, and use it to get rid of really bad people. In all essence, giorno is quite literally the mixture of Jonathan and Dio, he’s got dio’s ruthlessness and planning nature, mixed with jonathans kindness and chivalrous tendencies. All in all they balance out to make a morally grey, true neutral character. He cares about those around him, while also understanding sacrifices need to be made sometimes for the good of all. Truthfully, while he’s not my favorite jojo, he’s got my upmost respect
I think he's also one of the only JoJo's in the main universe that actually kills the people he fights which is a trait he gets from Dio
I know in the other parts the enemy's die but Johnathan and Joseph don't kill humans usually vampires and other creatures and neither does Jotaro he usually just knocks them out, I believe the only person he kills is Dio, and Josuke doesn't kill either, he doesn't really kill Kira or his dad but his dad was already a ghost but i guess you can say he kills the Rat
Don't remember if Jolyne kills people which she probably does but that's cuz she's crazy,
I really like Giorno because of how much he is a break in tradition when it comes to the personalities of the protagonists. Sure, Jotaro before him was more of an introverted protagonist, but he was also standoffish, belligerent and had a hard-on for one-liners.
Meanwhile, Giorno is quiet but not unfriendly and has a much easier time showing that he cares for the people around him, subtle as he may be about it.
Giorno is also one of the few proactive protagonists in the series, being the first one to actively seek to change the status quo instead of reacting to someone else changing it
Giorno might not be the most dynamic or bombastic protagonist in JoJo, but I actually love that he takes more of a backseat and supporting/inspiring role to the (let's face it, more interesting) supporting cast - but ultimately comes on top himself. It's the perfect way to show both his cleverness, ambition, humility, and more subdued nature.
You can interpret it through either his heroic or his villainous side. Did he find like-minded friends, become their healer, and inspire them to grow into their best selves in hopes of achieving a more just Italy? Or did cunningly attach himself to an established group with sympathetic ideals, let them do the bulk of the fighting, and then take power when he had the opportunity?
Hell, I'm not even sure if Giorno himself knows! He blames himself when the janitor dies, he is visibly upset when Abbacchio dies, he outright cries when Narancia's soul vanished from his body, and the very end is extremely bittersweet with Giorno trembling over Bruno's death which he hid from Mista and the others. But ultimately, despite his compassionate nature, he still ruthlessly put their lives (and his own, to be fair) on the line to achieve his goal. You can't help but wonder if there's some internal conflict about it.
Gosh, I wish we had gotten to see post-Part 5 Giorno. Jotaro's later incarnations were so much richer and more interesting to me than his Part 3 self, once he took on the "haunted mentor" role to the main cast. I can't help but feel that a Part 6 appearance from the gang-star with a heart of gold would have been magnificent.
To this day, he is my favorite Jojo, and Golden Wind/Vento Aureo is my favorite part
The arguments you use for Giorno could also be used for Bullfrog from Captain Laserhawk A Blood Dragon Remix.
he's the only stoic protagonist, who's stoicism is based on childhood trauma, as far as i know.
Guts upon hearing this:
Are we forgetting Jotaro "I was inspired by Clint Eastwood" Kujo, or do his anger outbursts disqualify him?
@@legendarycryptid2629 what does that have to do with childhood trauma??
@@Green-3c34y65vrbu I mainly focused on the "stoic protagonist" part. On the childhood trauma, I would've counted Sasuke, but he's not _the_ main protagonist of his series, so my only other choice from rote memory is Yusaku Fujiki.
@@legendarycryptid2629jotaro doesn’t have any childhood trauma. he’s just bad at expressing himself
As someone who used to be heavily invested in jojo and it's community scrub's voice hit me right in the nostalgia.
They made a light reference to the fact that he’s half dio/half joestar in the first episode where he does good deeds and bad deeds at the same time.
He steals a wallet a pickpocket just stole, gave it back to the girls, but stole money from them with Gold Experience (not wind btw).
They made the reference to Dio with the fact that Giorno wanted to be the Top (King) Gangstar.
They made the reference to him being half joestar because he wanted to be a GOOD Gangstar (again half good/half bad). Because him being half joestar, he completes the goal of Dio to rule the world due to the fact is he has good in his heart making him worthy of ruling (could be a reference to if Dio worked with the Joestars he would be unstoppable). Fate is on his side because he is MOSTLY good (joestar), and relentless in accomplishing the goal (DIO).
He is the antithesis of Dio, almost like a parallel dimension Dio who was good. Where Dio’s power derived from taking life, Giorno’s power is to give it. His words inspired his team members to push forward, invigorating them and often helping them find a second wind. Dio used everyone to his gain, so does Giorno but in a completely different manner building them up as well. I can go on and on about how he is connected to Dio, but it was more nuanced which people have a harder time recognizing.
Appreciate the references to A Scrub for Hire’s Part 5 abridged, Kamen.
Edit: MUDA!
Ehh I don’t think Diavolo being the gangster that Giorno saved would have made sense. Part of Giorno’s whole goal for becoming head of the mafia is to stop selling drugs to kids, and he gained that mindset because that’s the same moral philosophy that the gangster he saved had. But that goes against what Diavolo is doing, so it really just doesn’t make sense thematically. The whole point of Giorno’s backstory is to establish the idea that even criminals, the literal lowest of society, have just as much and sometimes even more morality than regular people. That’s why Giorno has his dream of doing good and reforming society through the criminal underworld. Having it be Diavolo all along just undermines all of that. While I think it would have been better had there been more emotional stakes between Giorno and Diavolo, I don’t think that’s the way to do it.
And I think you're blatantly misunderstanding my point. My point was that Diavolo was saved by Giorno and thus would owe the kid a favor - Something that mobsters do, and Giorno could've seen that as the ideal capo.
"Having it be Diavolo all along just undermines all of that."
I love how you just say this, and don't explain it at all, especially when I established in my scenario that I explained more.
You're not really saying anything of note here.
@@Mangakamen alright, guess I just won’t comment on your videos anymore. I wasn’t trying to convince you otherwise, I was giving my own thoughts on the matter.
Right, and I'm trying to respond to you and explain why it doesn't work. You're not explaining why having the Capo be Diavolo wouldn't work - All that stuff you stated can work with Diavolo, especially when I said in the video: "But it would also serve as a good narrative irony for both Giorno and Diavolo as characters.
For Giorno, learning that the man he was after all this time to fulfill his dream was the same man that inspired him to become a gangster - the same man who not only took away the life of his friend Buccaratti, Abbacchio and Narancia - and learn that the man he looked up to, the one who had given him hope…"
When you make a comment like you do, it signals that you're ignoring the dramatic irony part. Since I explained this.
I find it to be funny that you're like "I won't comment on your videos any more" when I point out how your points don't make any sense in the context of the video.
If you don't think Diavolo wouldn't work - Actually explain why. No where did I say you were trying to convince me - I was pointing out how your point doesn't make sense with what I said in the video.
The only problem with Jotaro contacting Polnareff about Giorno is the fact that the organization has complete control over all communication services
Even the speedwagon foundation? I seem to recall them using pigeons to communicate.
@@Mangakamen oh shitttt I didn’t even think about that
For all his missed opportunities, I still think Giorno is my second favorite Jojo, and definitely my favorite of the post-stand introduction Jojos.
As a power geek, I would’ve loved to see Giorno experimenting with his newfound abilities. He could’ve tested whether that snake anti-venom Idea would’ve worked in the background before he cured himself of Fugo’s gases.
It’s really disappointing how many interesting ideas were introduced and never built upon.
I once predicted Diovolo to think he was using his usual time skip to fly through the crew’s attacks before looking back and realizing “did that golden boy punch the soul out of me?!?!”. Because it was weird for Giorno to use that move on Bucciarati and for Araki ignore that it happened.
I can understand wanting to scrap such a powerful move that gives one hit KO opportunities, but having it revealed in the first place like his relation to Dio will leave me so many questions and what ifs.
Gold experience throughout the series only ever attacked the stands that's why
because using it on the enemy is risky. like imagine him using that against prosciutto, he would’ve been cooked. one mistake and he’s done for
Admirable dreams, but he doesn't come of as a realistic person because the story focusses so much on it.
Josuke was a lot more human, which made him likable and respectable to me. He also was at times out of his depths and struggling with enough Weakness to make it believable that he would fail.
Giorno never feels like that. Any time he struggled, i thought," How is he getting out of it this time?(derogator)"
While with Josuke, i thought,"Oh God, how is he going to get out of that?(endering)"
I loved how bit about how you study characters, learn what other people think about them, and try to understand why they came to the opinions tht they do.
Funny enough, Giorno being more of a support character is exactly what I like about him. We don't really see many protagonists willing to play in the sidelines, probably even less during the year that Golden Wind came out.
I think the problem people have with giorno is he don't have any kind of sauce like he don't have the cool aura of jotaro, he don't fun personallity like josuke and Joseph, he don't have the horny thoughts like Jonny and jolline and to make things worse everyone in Golden wind say giorno is the most wacky or the fun person to be around when we only see giorno having the same expression.
Edit : I don't have nothing against silent characters since my favorite character is light, Sasuke and Megumi but all of them have something I can tell they are different while giorno don't have
The problem with Giorno is that he doesn’t have any real, personal motivation. Unlike the other Jojos, he doesn’t even have a family, and he barely develops a connection with any of the Part 5 gang outside of Bruno.
@@sssspiderhe has parents, he just doesn’t interact that much once growing up. he also has connections with other gang members like mista, abbachio, and narancia
I don't think it makes too much sense for Diavolo to be the one Giorno saves; how would he end up in a dangerous situation like that? King Crimson's megahacks make it ludicrous to assume that a rival gang would pose any personal threat to him, and at this point in time I think Passione would've been well developed to the point that he wouldn't be getting involved. Furthermore, Diavolo would've immediately recognised Giorno's stand ability awakening and most likely would've done something about that.
I do t get it when people say Giorno being a son of Dio isn’t expanded upon.
A: What are you expecting? Nobody in the main cast know who Dio is. If a character who did know Dio were to accompany Giorno like Jotaro than Giorno would only be further pushed to the side.
B: Giorno’s whole character is a combination of Jonathan and Dio. He’s a walking contraduction, with the blood of bitter rivals running through his cairns. If you look back on his actions, you always see the shadow of one or both of his fathers behind him.
"A: What are you expecting? Nobody in the main cast know who Dio is. If a character who did know Dio were to accompany Giorno like Jotaro than Giorno would only be further pushed to the side."
Did I say the main cast? No, I said the two characters who had a connection with Dio - Diavolo and Polnareff
"B: Giorno’s whole character is a combination of Jonathan and Dio. He’s a walking contraduction, with the blood of bitter rivals running through his cairns. If you look back on his actions, you always see the shadow of one or both of his fathers behind him."
... Right, but that doesn't make him a good character and that can be lost on a lot of people.
@@Mangakamen I wasn’t saying anything about the quality of Giorno’s character, just that his connections to Dio were deeper than you made them out to be. I understand most of your other points even if I don’t personally agree.
Right, but that's not what I was getting at - You can talk about how themematically Giorno can work, but themes are mostly subjective, and we're talking about the writing.
@@Mangakamen yeah that’s fair.
the reason why giorno being dios son not being expanded upon is explained by araki he states that, the readers would have expected that and if they expect it to happen and it happens he failed as a writer
I feel like the opening AMV having only clips of Giorno posing coolly after having defeated his enemies or being in the process of the final defeat of his enemy says everything about Giorno's character. there's no clips of a deep introspection that Giorno has with himself, no clips of Giorno suddenly jumping because of a loud sound, as it reminded him of the sound of his drunkard father coming home at night; this is because these scenes don't exist. all he is is a 'cool' and 'badass' figure with hardly more than one half of an intensely interesting character moment. (that being when he shakes instead of crying when Bruno's death is fully confirmed to him).
Yep, even Part 3 Jotaro had more going for him in this regard
Nah. Giorno was upset when Black Sabbath killed the old man from his school, when he learned Bucciarati is a walking dead, was furious and disgusted at Chioccolata as a person etc. Maybe it's because my personality is similar and I can relate to him, I really don't think Giorno is as devoid of emotion as most claim he is. How I see it, we were presented his back story once and everything he does, we have to interpret in the context of his background. This same type of characterisation is used for the rest of the gang.
If you want a very specific psychological profile and PTSD moments, Johnny and maybe Jonathan are the only JoJos where we know so much about them
@@zipperman255 I really don't think any of those moments are notable, seeing as every other JoJo protagonist would have reacted the same way to either of them. not to mention, Giorno being furious and disgusted at Cioccolata fell so flat as a narrative choice, considering he didn't know Cioccolata's backstory, which means he had no reason to be angrier at him than any other antagonist, like he would if he knew of his revolting past. Giorno should have only been as mad at Cioccolata as he is every other antagonist who defeats Mista.. which is most of them.
@@Green-3c34y65vrbu His reactions are the bare minimum. I would say "reserved" but I realise how most ppl perceive it. I wasn't making a case for "Giorno is the most emotional JoJo" but "Giorno isn't emotionless". Personally I think it makes him unique from other JoJos how much he bottles up his emotions
But Ciocco infected a village with Green Day mold and was going to do it with all of Rome. He gave a speech how others despair and suffering is his favourite source of happiness. Even though Giorno didn't know C's history as a surgeon and tormenting elderly people, he had good reasons to believe C is a sick individual who deserves his rage.
If you think Giorno is as interesting as white bread that's fine. I have my limitations on how much I will defend a fictional character
@@zipperman255 that's fair enough, I just see nothing interesting about him in that way. i'm glad you can find meaning in him where I can't.
Muda muda muda! I agree that Giorno could have had more meat in character development. I surmise that mayhaps for araki around the time of writing out how he wanted events and the over all plot to go, he had these subtle plot points to actually tie in such a important staple in character writing but he may also have had a hard time finding a way to implement this without as you mentioned making Giorno stand out too much while Giorno is also trying to be low key and seem like a true green horn of the Mafia and i think though this is such a neat idea, it really caused such a suffocating stifle in the fact he's a Joestar, and Joestars always are supposed to shine bright in their own way. Giorno was then put in a pickle and on top of that a crippling time crunch. Not giving Araki more time to properly flush out the true potential within what I think is the most fun, enticing and expansive character dynamic within writing. Because of the Dio and Jonathan dynamic and how many ties this important idea plays overall in JoJo. It could go in SO MANY DIRECTIONS that it's unbelievably vast. If Araki today could "rewrite" Golden Wind but keeping nearly all of it the same. I am 100% sure with his new found writing experience from the future parts he made after 5 Giorno Giovanna would become a very well loved and cherished by many as one of the greats in the Joestar bloodline. And I am so thirsty for Araki to go back and make this wish a reality that it's probably unhealthy. Hell I would have loved La Squadra to have had more character development and screen time in some places too. There's so much potential in Golden Wind and that's why it's tied in my number 1 spot along side Part 7. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
*Proceeds to do a 7 pages long Muda: Muda muda muda muda muda muda muda muda XD*
Honestly I think it would've been fine if after Bruno turning against Diavolo we would've had Giorno slowly take a more upfront, de-facto leader role in the story, it would've worked even more to highlight how he inspired and influenced others (Trish, Mista, Narancia and maybe Bruno were already affected by him in the current version of the story, his shift into becoming a leader would just expand on that and work hand in hand with this).
Initially, him being the guy acting from the background makes sense, yes, even in the sense of him showing a quality of a true leader (helping his fellow team members shine first), but he really only needed to keep a low profile while being part of Passione. Once Bruno betrayed Diavolo, anyone joining him would have a target on their back, so there would be no point in keeping a low profile now. But there's just so long till being the low profile support starts being at the detriment of your character. Staying in that role for too long caused him to miss out of many chances to prove his worthiness as the next Mafia boss and as the guy chosen by the Requiem arrow.
So honestly we could've had Bruno revealing his death to Giorno a bit earlier (maybe offscreen so the surprise is kept for the audience), Giorno taking charge after the betrayal to Diavolo, seeing that someone needs to do it due to bruno's deteriorating condition and also as a chance to get in a position to set himself up as the next Boss, and everyone being initially skeptical, but slowly starting to admire and respect him as the new leader.
As you said, we could've also had Polnareff introduced a bit earlier and having a beef with GioGio over his ties to Dio, while Giorno would just not care about his father being a bad guy, showing how he is the opposite of Diavolo, who is obssessed with his past, and then we could've had Polnareff see why our Golden boy is nothing like his father, probably through Giorno being genuinely kind and humble to everyone and only being ruthless to scum worthy of it, like Cioccolata and Diavolo.
I just hate the lack of characterization of Giorno (not the character himself, I think he is kinda cool as is) cuz it hurts rven more due to the final moment where the story wants to suggest that he was chosen by the arrow, by fate itself, as worthy.
These types of video are always very interesting. It’s great that you take the time to explain a character instead of just reading the surface level aspects of them.
That's why we make a distinction between hero and protagonist
I'm not trying to 'defend' the Dio references/call backs per say but a big part of Araki's thought process when writing Giorno was "What if Dio was good?"
I personally like the occasional muda/wry/posing like dio/etc, it's like a little in-joke between Araki and the fans.
He’s a very interesting character
Giorno was also sort of a weird Jojo for me, Johnathan was chivalrous and Noble, Joseph was playful and mischievous, Jotaro was stoic and serious and Josuke was polite but also violent and short tempered, their personalities were pretty easily defeind. Giorno always felt kind of weird at times to me.
Like he's introduced stealing money from people, but does use some of the money to help others, then robs Koichi and sells all his stuff with a half assed apology, yet also has noble qualities like loyalty to his crew and drive to his dream. I don't know, he just feels kind of bland compared to the other Jostars.
Uuuuhhhhh... You mean he is complex and has many sides? Sounds just more interesting than a one trick Pony. I mean all JoJos are great but not understanding that people can have more than 2 adjectives to describe them doesn't mean he's a bad protagonist.
@@QT-oc9rn It's more his personality is pretty basic, he's loyal, cares about his friends and is fairly smart and wants to be a gangster, that's a pretty standard Shonen personality.
I mean Giorno did say to himself he fully intended to give Koichi back his passport. That kinda makes up for it in my mind because it shows he is still considerate of others
@@Pikaman20008 He stole his stuff. that is not considerate.
Remember giorno has dio's blood afterall~
I dont think Jotaro couldve contacted Polnareff, since Polnareff couldnt talk to anyone on the phone since the passione had control over the entire communication, so, Polnareff couldnt contact Jotaro to come help him, also, if Jotaro somehow contacted Polnareff, it would makes sense for Jotaro to come help, instead of letting Pol die. I dont think there was a way for Jotaro to talk to Polnareff unfortunetly
It's a hypothetical.
@@Mangakamen Yipeee
Lupin deep cut
Around 8:29 - Bare in mind Jotaro would have no way to contact Polnareff because that's the whole crux of his character in Part 5, he's been forced into hiding trapped in Italy all these year since his utter defeat by Diavolo/King Crimson.
Though it is just a hypothetical and could be played out differently, Polnareff clearly has access to lots of hidden information when he first contacts the gang so you could just say he found several clues to Giorno's identity but didn't put it all together till some later time like after meeting him or watching him fight.
However because Giorno doesn't have much of an opinion on Dio, seeing as he barely knows anything about him, instead of Polnareff confronting Giorno on it have something playing out like Polnareff witnesses the fight between Giorno and Choclatta and that's where he realizes the familial connection but also sees Giorno punishing that inarguably evil b@$tard deciding Giorno didn't follow his father's path.
It may be just me, but I felt like I understood his character immediately. Giorno is a man who takes gambles and risks, but he never leaves things to chance. He will exhaust every option in a scenario if it means getting the W.
I think that a large part of why Giorno comes across as boring is also because of this weird desire to make him a total paragon who all his gangmates warm up to and is super agreeable while also wanting to make the story about the mafia and fill the main cast with scummy criminal types. It plants him (and the cast as a whole but especially Giorno) in the middle of two contradictory ideas. Like I think that part 5 is weak overall but really the only one of the main cast who successfully lands as a "ruthless mafioso with a hidden heart of gold" is Abacchio, the others are lacking in the edge and could have been just "not mafia members".
Jonathan is also a paragon but many people have grown to appreciate his character in part because his gentlemanliness and noble personality is simply wholesome. Ironically Jonathan having fewer flaws would make for some more interesting scenes. Jonathan wouldn't for instance let his friends torture a guy just to get back at him, and if they wanted to the scene would center on him trying to talk them out of it. To Giorno, the act is such a non-issue he doesn't even appear in it. Same goes with most of the big moments that are intended to be emotional, like the group risking breaking up has everyone get some big moment but Giorno is just like, "Oh, Fugo is leaving, that's a shame. But I'm going to pursue the boss. Okay, Narancia, your turn."
Even Giorno's dream of becoming a gangster, it's the core of his character but it's really not really that impactful. "Giorno Giovanna has a dream" is pretty much his only character trait and the backstory as to WHY he has that dream is given less actual significance than Josuke's motivation for wearing a pompadour. Like he has his dream but the question is what exactly does he intend to do when he gets it? The only answer we're given is, "Basically the same thing as what was happening before, except the [off-screen] drug selling is stopped." It makes his dream come across as a flimsy excuse for the plot. Since the audience isn't really given a good reason as to why they want to see Giorno achieve his dream, it makes the line that is his catch phrase seem irrelevant.
It does make me question about why he drew the line at children getting drug but not every other illegal activity controlled by the mafia that children can get into.
@@owo4288Probably because children don't have the will to fight off addiction
Also you wouldn't go to a child to get someone dead, but they could easily buy drugs
@@Sarah12471 I would probably put human trafficking on the list along side prostitution since children/teenager can easily be victim of this.
@@owo4288 A fair point, and i'll concede on that explanation
Still though, i think Giorno's point is more keeping children out of crime all together, its just that drugs is what we see most often(thanks to Bruno Bucciarti)
My reason is because Giorno is someone who very much seems to want to keep innocent individuals uninvolved as much as he can, hence why he killed polpo, and gave the 7 page Muda too Chocolatta
Love the kira video
I wish Giorno met Dio.
Eyes of heaven?
Kind of impossible since Dio was long dead by the time Giorno was born.
@@thefanwithoutaface8105 what? How do you think Giorno was born if DIO was dead? 💀
@@mopettetm8220 ....You do remember it takes 9 months for a baby to born after conception right? What do you think happened between the Months Dio banged Giorno's mom and his birth?
@@thefanwithoutaface8105 Not true, Giorno was about three years old when Dio die
I can understand where you are coming from. But I still can't agree that Giorno is not a bad character. When you listed all the reasons why he was mandatory for Part 5 to work, it didn't really convince me that he was integral because of who he is, but only because of what he can do. He is important because the plot needs him to, rather than him servicing the story in any way. Take away Giorno and all of the situations made for him, and have his story mended into Bucciarati's, and you would have a more consistent story that has more 3D characters. That's my view on it, but I think you did a great job at least exposing the underlying problems.
I hated how they didn’t include “Gangstar” in the dub.
Part 3 is about Polnareff
Part 4 is about Koichi
Part 5 is about Bucciarati
Part 6 is about Weather Report
Part 7 is about Gyro
Part 8 is about Yasuho (I guess)
I love the JJBA:TAS reference.
Personally, I liked Giorno as a character, but I also didn't like the support cast in part 5 (except Bucchiarati, he's a GOAT), so it was easier for me to ignore problems with him as the MC when I would rather watch him than the grumpy cop, the the guy with a gun and the angry brat. And the most interesting stand from a dynamic perspective, the poison stand, ran away mid-season. Seeing someone with friendly fire turned on fight in the group would've been interesting.
Giorno is undeniably a pretty good character but there’s a lot of missed opportunities in the writing relating to him but at least out of all the jostars he had the best rush out of all of them.🐱
i think my big problem with giorno is that he´s too stoic and he never had doubts on his journey, while bucciaratti he just not moved the plot, but also was the mother figure to everyone on the group(especially to narancia and fugo).
MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA…MUDA!!!!
MUDA! They should have done more with Dio as his father. With what they did do, why even make him Dio’s son? They did nothing with it.
For stating he's the protagonist and is linked with a past character that was the major threat for the bloodline
2:25 Haru No Giovanna...
Haru no Giorno...
Spring's Morning?
MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA.... *MUDA!!!*
Giorno is like a Gaffer; extremely important but never seen and I think that's an issue because he's supposed to be a protagonist.
Hell at the end of the day we know more about Fugo then Giorno (thought that might be because Shameless Purple Haze made people want to know more in mainline material)
If there isn't a full 7 Page Muda in the comments, I'm gonna be disappointed.
Maybe he misunderstood.... maybe. But maybe he's also just not as interesting as other Jojos 🤔 Also doesn't help to be sandwitched in the middle of the otherwise absolute banger streak of Stardust Crusaders, Diamond is Unbreakable, Stone Ocean and Steel Ball Run, all of which are better than Golden Wind and have amazing protagonists. Part 5 feels like the most side story-y Araki ever got with a full Jojo part. It doesn't really key off of any other part nor does it really affect anything that happens after. It's just it's own thing.
It really is interesting how you sometimes can see glimpses of both Jonathan and Dio in Giorno. It also would've been interesting to see if the story would still be the same if Giorno was a girl.
Giorno is kinda like the black sheep of the family, Part 5 in general almost felt like something else
I just finished watching everything up until golden wind and i honestly thought diavolo was going to be that mysterious guy that giorno saved and looked up
To. Was kinda disappointed when it wasnt. And even though i enjoyed giorno and josukes episodes, they did get slightly outshined by the other allies. The dio relation should have been flushed out more during giornos episodes
Honestly Giorno is the definition of a flat character and there's nothing much to the guy, my biggest problem has always been is that he's suppose to be the protagonist but gets side lined massively. I will say the idea of Giorno meeting and saving Diavolo when he was a kid in my opinion is such a cool concept and I felt most definitely could've added a lot more to the story as part 5 always felt soulless. I don't necessarily hate part 5 but my god the villains even have more screen time than the main cast, which can definitely work with the whole weekly release but overall since the story continues they're forgotten and become a foot note. In this regard part 3 excels with its cast of characters, plus we do get more moments with the group as a whole and interact a heck of a lot more, as suppose to part 5 in which we don't have them interact as much. What I'm more or less trying to say is that they all needed more screen time, Giorno especially since he's always been boring and unlike Jotaro when it comes to fights he's not half as entertaining when it comes to his fights, like people say Jotaro's boring but he's got way more character than Giorno.
MUDA!
I'm willing to bet that a lot of the writing issues or shortcomings of Part 5 stem from it being made during a low point in Araki's life. Compared to other parts, the one thing I tend to hear about Part 5 is that suffered from rewrites that likely altered parts of the overall story (I.e. I remember a theory going around that the Seven Page Muda was originally intended for Fugo back when he was intended to be a double agent). It wouldn't surprise me if Araki ALSO had the idea to make Diavolo the mafioso (or alternatively, the man who killed the mafioso) that Giorno saved as a kid, only to change it for similar reasons as the change he made to Fugo's arc
I like how you mention being a static character isn't bad because it's the traits of Giorno that remains the same to be interesting. Mention how he is ruthless and yet is the one to support friends and care for others are the two traits from Dio and Jonathan. The true product of the combination. And as for requiem, you can argue, deus ex machina, but it is the irony of Giorno being all powerful, as oppose to Dio trying to achieve being all powerful, it's just the heart of Giorno is the same as Jonathan that contrast Dio. Having that info and relate it to the story really gives an understanding why Giorno gets GER. The missed opportunity section is very spot on of what could've been, but generally, I agree he's not the best protagonist or the worst. Misunderstood is a good way to put, good job MangaKamen.
Muda! This video was awesome man. Thanks for another well done video :D
Thank you for reminding me how much of a good game Life is Strange is.
MUDA!
As far as GER as a Deus Ex Machina, I'd say no. Deus Ex Machina implies that the resolution to the plot comes out of nowhere, that god has come out of the machine to magically solve the plot. That isn't GER at all.
Not only was the Requiem Arrow implied to have powers beyond that of a normal stand arrow, we saw what it was capable of with Silver Chariot Requiem. The entire final fight is more about keeping the arrow away from Diavolo than it is about confronting him directly, and the act that puts the arrow in Giorno's hands is a final self-sacrifice from Bucciarati, as he puts his faith in Giorno. GER is the payoff for both that act of trust, and all of the people who were lost to get to this point, and as such GER is just the natural progression of the plot that just so happened to be a broken stand power.
Giorno. The other Jojo with bs asspulls.
Golden wind abridged is highly underrated.
Yooo loving your videos
Muda
+1 MUDA on the like button towards that 5K goal
But fr I would have loved the idea of Diavolo being revealed as the same mafia guy that Giorno saved as a kid to actually give the two a better connection than mainly just having Diavolo as an obstacle towards his goal
We REALLY need a Video about making Good Static Character!
Part 5 is my favorite part 7 good, but not my fav my second fav is part 2
But unlike part 2 where i love it cuz of Joseph, but part 5 i like it cuz of all the "side" characters, and there history not cuz of Giorno
Personally, I found Girono an alright JoJo when compared to his peers. Part 5 is in my top 3 parts but it’s not because of Giorno, characters like Johnny and Joseph are more appealing to me in terms of personality and ability. However, I can see why Giorno is liked by the community.
1:12 Man I miss Scrub for Hire's Jojo dubs. Also, MUDA!
Manga Kamen is becoming a more aggressive Red from OSP and i'm all for it
Allright, I’ll bite.
Muda muda muda muda muda muDA!
Part 2, part 4, and part 6 are my all time favorite parts
It is kinda Funny that Diavolo caused his own defeat by giving out the arrows, its like fate coming back to bite him. The arrows caused a lot problems after being handed to Enya, Awakening Dio's Stand thus Awakening the Joestars stands, Eventually Dio will be defeated but his sons will live on, one of these sons being Giorno who happens to be in Italy where Diavolo resides and soon will be dethroned and punished in an infinite death thanks to his past actions long ago.