I went through them this morning and found that six needed deburring on the cutting edges. A light touch on the linisher and they were razor sharp and clean edged. I also found two that were poorly ground in the under 4 mm sizes. One of those was ground totally wrong. Easily corrected. The grind on all of them is not to Sutton standard (coarser) but quite workable. At first re-sharpen they should come up nice and shiny just like the Suttons I have.
I did a video way back on grinding back relief on drills by hand. But in this case it's just a matter of touching the edge back relief against a belt sander to polish/deburr the cutting edge without grinding away any major metal. It's almost like polishing the existing surface. Linishers are good for this and other fine sharpening, facing, edge breaking jobs. Very handy unit for the workshop. Cheers Rob
I always sharpen the very small drills on the linisher, because it's finer grit and easier to see (I use a magnifying glass as well) and you are only taking off a very small amount of metal. It's all practice. I see people trying to sharpen drills on the normal outside curved surface of the wheel, but that's not how I was taught. Use the flat side of the wheel. Small drills are more difficult for sure. Cheers Rob
Ha Ha . I was at a farm fair last Friday and there was a guy there selling and demonstrating the Drill Doctor machine. It was damn expensive ($450 AU) and it seemed to work OK. Well, he made it work OK ;) I've heard varying reports on it. How well it does tiny drills I can't say. I didn't see any tiny drills in the demonstration. Looking at the way it operates I doubt it would handle them very well. Cheers Rob
notice you had a couple of tapers showing in the frame at the intro and wondered if you have knowledge of B&S #9. There is a 60yr old mill in my very near future with this spindle but no tooling. One may use an MT2 in its stead? regards c
Can't help you on that one Chris. Get away from Morse and Schaublin tapers and I'm stuffed. Try Practical Machinist Forum. They tend to be pretty pedantic so you will get the technically correct answer without a doubt ;) Cheers Rob
Note: The stainless steel round stock that pulled one drill badly was very poor quality with variable hardness throughout it. I've had a similar result with other drills used on it.
Thanks for making the video and sharing your test with us all! I do not think the test showing a NEW drill bit drilling mild steel less than 1/2 deep really shows anything towards durability and this is where Chinese drill bits fail usually DURABILITY. Get them too hot even once and they are toast, they work great on the first few jobs then tire out quickly. Quality USA, GERMAN, or the UK made drills last a long time under severe use, I would be surprised if these drills could compete with them. A good test would be some harder meta, around 35 to 40 RC and put them up against an American made drill, this I would LOVE to see. Thanks again for taking time to make the video for us my friend!
These are CHEAP drills so you have remember that when judging them against quality units. I would never expect them to be as good. If you do, then I'm afraid you're missing the point of the video.
I used to only have a set of cheapo Chinese drill bits until one of them broke and I bought a Sutton Tools bit to replace it. I didn't know steel could cut like butter, I always assumed the screeching and struggling was normal. I've been spoiled and I don't know if I can go back.
I have some Suttons in Imperial and they are nice drills. No argument there. The test ones are el cheapos and you just have to remember that when assessing them. It's all many people can afford.
Thanks, Rob. I recently bought a set of these (without the case) but haven't used them yet. Glad you gave them an endorsement. I've been more than pleased with the quality of Harbor Freight's imperial sets, too. Banggood is forcing me to become metric: it's wonderful what tooling I can afford if I forsake (at least partially) imperial sizes.
Eh I think pretty much any bit will manage to chew it's way though a few holes. I think to have any real valid opinion a much more extensive test would be in order.
in the u.s.a.here, thanks for to time you put into this. ive had cheap drill bits and expensive ones and from my experience anything under 5/8 will break and dull quickly unless used in a precision press and oiled.
In general, I approve of your efforts to review affordable tooling. But I have a few serious problems with your testing methodology. First off, it seems you've already decided to keep the set before you even do any testing (when you first unbox, you say "this is a nice set that I will only use in collets.") This indicates a serious bias. Secondly, you include no inspection of the finished holes. No matter how nice the tools look, if the result isn't satisfactory, they're junk. Are the holes on size? Have they been drilled straight? What is the surface like inside the hole? Lastly, you make no mention of wear resistance. This is a serious omission. Are the edges worn already after drilling the one or two holes that you show? If not, how many holes are they good for? Not all HSS is created equal, and we don't know if these will hold their edge or need frequent sharpening.
No. What I meant is that those drills will not go the same way as the dozens of others I have - being chewed up by jawed chucks, and will only be used in collets. I don't see any bias there. That was the reason I got them. Whether they are any good still had to be determined. As it turned out they are quite OK for the money IMHO. I went through them this morning and found that six needed deburring on the cutting edges. A light touch on the linisher and they were razor sharp and clean edged. I also found two that were poorly ground in the under 4 mm sizes. One of those was ground totally wrong. Easily corrected. The grind on all of them is not to Sutton standard (coarser) but quite workable. At first re-sharpen they should come up nice and shiny just like the Suttons I have. As for the holes, they looked OK in the video. There is a limit to how long a video needs to be and 20 min is about it. Cheers Rob
Hey Rob, at least these are better than Chinesium drill bits used to be. I bought a set years ago and they wouldn't even begin to drill metal and would hardly drill into wood. You got those to drill into various pieces of steel, so that's a huge improvement.
I once saw a picture of a Chinese drill bit that had unwound the flutes. LOL. I could hardly believe my eyes. That's never happened to me, but it was pretty incredible. Cheers Rob
Hi Rob, My pleasure. Interaction with viewers is a major reason why I do YT. The big guys generally don't do it, for whatever reason. I personally like to get some involvement and discussion going with viewers, so that we can all share our experiences and knowledge on the subject. I think this is also what YT is aiming for with the videos it supports. It should after all be a learning medium. I'm glad you appreciate my efforts. Cheers the other Rob
Re: Drill size. Were you able to measure the land size of the drill, was it the same as the shank dimension? I buy a lot stuff from Banggood. I await your reply. Cheers
Hi Chris, I'm going to do a follow up video shortly to cover some of the comments from viewers. So I will include that aspect in it. I tried to keep the original video short but it still blew out. Can't do every thing with the time available. Cheers Rob
Useful review Rob - had to dash thru because super busy. End result though - not at all bad though as always with any drill set, wonder how long term usage will shape out.
Testing the hardness with a file is by far a necessary step when assessing cheap drills other then size and grind. Its fairly easy to file on relief grind along the whole length to avoid cutting edges. Most shanks will be dead soft and the hardness changes up and down the bit. Although only a rough test that cannot account for tempering, (a considerable issue) it does seem to vary with some bits only being hard for the first 10-20mm!
Check back and let us know how they did after you drilled several inches of hole would you Rob? 1/4" deep hole from a new bit doesn't let me know enough about the steel. The cheap ones that look great but have to be sharpened very frequently I like to avoid whereas there are some pretty good cheap ones. I have a deep drawer in my tool chest and another small roll around completely filled with drill bits but like you I don't have many metric ones so I am watching with interest. Take care. Doug
Hi Doug, I will check back once they have done a bit of real work. Those gold coloured ones were crap really. Very brittle and cut no better than plain HSS. Time will tell with the BG ones. They sailed through the test metals OK. Cutting wet would be easier on them. Cheers Rob
If you get the ones with three flats ground into the shanks you get positive drive from the regular drill chuck and avoid the mangling. (But then they are not really usable in collets)
If you have your drill bit slip in a Jacobs chuck, there is a reason. Most people tighten one of these using the key in one hole ONLY. Once the drill bit takes a big bite, it starts slipping in the chuck. Then, most people will reinstall the key and exert "maximum" pressure on the key, again using only one hole. A drill chuck has 3 holes on purpose. In order to get the chuck tight for serious drilling in metal, you have to utilize all 3 holes to get the drill bit secure. The second and third hole always provide a degree or two of extra force after the first hole is totally tightened. It is physics.
Nothing new in what you are saying. I've always been taught and teach to use the three key positions each time. However, that's still no guarantee that the soft drill shank will not slip if the drill jambs. They make drill shanks soft so that the blade edges of the chucks will bite in basically. Collets grip completely differently and will not mark or damage drills. Plus you can do a collet up way tighter than any drill chuck - big shifter V's poxy little chuck key. No contest on both points. Basically 3 jaw drill chucks are pretty crude devices.
I find most of the Chinesium cheapos have a terrible grind, as in non-simmetrical. Can you make a few macro photos or at least measure the cutting edges on both sides? Also, they never seem to have a secondary grind (spilt point) not even on smaller sizes, and that IHMO really makes for a good drill. These wouldn't happen to hava a split point on smaller ones? Thanks for the video :)
Yeah, you can see the 13mm particularly wasn't throwing out symmetrical chips. Looks like a decent set overall. I generally go for drills in that price range and then spend some time doing a 4 / 6 facet resharpen before using them. Apart from the default grind being crappy (I had a set of Tivoly drills that wouldn't even make holes "out of the box") the only other problem is undersizing - once they're properly sharpened, they make undersized holes...
The drill marked 13 mm that measured 12.64 mm is 0.06 mm shy of being exactly 1/2 inch. The drill marked 12.5 mm is also the next imperial size down (31/64 inch).
Had some cheap "nitrided" drills that were best for wood, as using them on steel resulted in them turning into left hand thread bits. But they were fine on wood or plastic, and I had a few that were bendable by hand. Think they left out a few important steps in manufacture, starting with not using steel that was capable of being hardened, or they used thick wire instead.
I have two small cheapo drill sets in those flip open plastic cases and one set you can bend them at least 40 degrees and then back again, and the other set is OK and nice and hard. The weird thing is that the bendy ones still manage to drill steel OK and hold an edge - for a while.
Hello, I'm new to your channel, and would like to know the names or brands of your: • round drill holder • micrometer • drill speed gauge Those things look great, and seem to be missing from workshop. Any help on names and makes are highly appreciated. Thanks! Dominik
That round drill holder is no longer available, but there are generic copies around - similar design (some have a double row), The digital micrometer is one I got from Banggood - it's very good - still available, Not sure what you mean by drill speed gauge, but I do use a cheap digital laser tachometer from Ebay - readily available generic type. With brand names it all comes down to how much you want to pay. I have top quality stuff as well but most were bought second hand. Brands like Mitutoyo, Starrett, IGaging, Moore and Wright are all good measuring gear. Cheers Rob
I had a good laugh on this one. A guy gave me the thumbs down on the video less than 5 minutes after I made it public. What a wanker . The video is over 20 minutes long . He He. These guys make my day.
It was a bit odd. The shank at the very end had been ground back and the size stamping was missing. I measured it on the actual flute size section. You may well be right on the money.
The thumbs down guy might not like videos showing the purchase of Asian made tools. Many have this attitude. If you buy from Western dealers you pay 3 times more and still get rebranded Asian merchandise.
Good review. yeah I never coated drills waste of time and money . I just made a video review on the 25 piece m35 cobalt set from banggood. Very good drills
I did some research in the past on the thumbs down. TH-cam rates thumbs up or down as the video got a reaction/feedback! Therefore your video must be good and is now rated higher. Also say the guy that did the down likes machining videos. Well he just told TH-cam he doesn't like machining videos by using the thumb down so none will be recommended to him for viewing. He just hurt himself!
Hi Dave, Well that's something I didn't know. Very interesting. I was looking at my stats the other day and about half of the views were from YT recommendations. So it has a big effect on the channel. While I have no problem with thumbs down from viewers that watch most of a video, this guy was obviously a total wally. Having made videos I rarely (if ever) would give a thumbs down to any video where a half decent effort had been made, knowing full well just how much work goes into doing it. I expect most other contributors feel the same way. I don't hesitate to weed out any viewers with anti social tendencies, to keep the comments section clean. It makes for a far better forum type experience for the regular viewers. Cheers Rob
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Same with the cheapest, they last a long time if not used.
I'm the same way Rob. Someone would have to say something offensive to me to get a thumbs-down. Otherwise, I figure, they're giving me something for free. If I don't like what they're doing, I just won't go back. I'm not going to throw rotten tomatoes at them. However, many feel differently, obviously.
If you want good drills you buy Cobalt. They are about 3 times the price, but it is worth it as it stays sharp a lot longer and can take a lot higher heat. And for tough materials you can't beat them. And all of the ones i have seen for sale have split point and 135 degree point angle making them ideal for both tough materials like stainless, and all other materials as well, and self centering. And even the made in china e-bay cobalt drills are good.
G'day Rob it's not bad stuff banggood I've got cutters and surface cutters and they are good and I will get their drill sets as mine are pretty manly as well. Thanks for the review the company is certainly making its mark on the world of machining ect. Regards John
Any decent precision machinist worth his salt was taught to never put materials other than bright round stock in a 3 jaw self centering chuck, doing so puts uneven strain on the scroll, this practice eventually causes deformation of the scroll, effecting concentric tolerance and repeatable accuracy of the chuck
I tend to agree and buy keyed chucks, but keyless are handy and fast acting for some jobs. eg. swapping out centre drills in a lathe tailstock. They tend to be poor in hammer drill situations from my experience. The quality ball bearing units work much better than the el-cheapos for sure. It appears you may not be interested in my next video, as I will be reviewing what appears to be a Banggood keyless Rohm clone ;) Cheers Rob
Hi Rob, boogered up drill bit set *************************** having a collet chuck and a tool post grinder it would be benefitial to grind the shanks smooth again. And keeping the tips well ground is your own job anyway. And when they get short you have a free spot drill set if you grind the tip to 140deg ;-) (Spot drills should have a tip angle of 140 deg not 90 deg as often written and even produced and offered for sale.) And they should have a split tip too because the web (look it up if you dont know: drill web) is quite wide on shortened drills. The web is not cutting but squishing the metal to the outside where it eventually will be cut. Drill set to buy *************** Look out for HSS with cobalt in it. It is about 2 Rockwell harder than standard HSS. Sometimes that decides btw success and failure. And it is still much cheaper than carbide but is not as brittle. For a habitual rebar machinist that should set off bells. ;-) I agree that the golden TiN coating is useless for the home shop machinist. It can be beneficial for certain series production set-ups. The new drill set under review: ********************************* The bigger ones should have a split tip (for those who dont know look it up: drill split tip). That is specially useful if you drill metal with a hand held drilling machine. It reduces the necessary force considerably. Using a pedestal grinder or even a dremel grinder you can split the tips yourself. The good drill bit sets already have it. You have to redo it after each sharpening. Actually it is part of the tip sharpening procedure. Usually drill bits are ground along its length with a very slight taper widest at the tip and a few hundreds of a mil less at the shank. Therefore you should always measure the drill across the cutting edges not at the shank. But in your case where 3.5 tenths not hundreds of a mil are missing it makes no difference. (I agree with Craig Marshall. Probably sb grabbed the wrong box of drills and got half inch ones. Was the 13mm drill stamped 13 mm on the shank?) Drilling test: In some drills the unequal chip size off the two cutting edges indicate unsymmetric tip grinds. Verdict: These drills are NOT ok. From this set you have to throw away at least about three due to whobble and diameter deviations. Then all the rest you have to sharpen and split the tips of the bigger ones before using them so that they cut symmetrically and non-oversized holes. Banggood also sell cobalt HSS drills but not in 1-13mm sets. (th-cam.com/video/rd1eyxrlIhw/w-d-xo.html) You need to put together your set by buying single drills or subsets. Then at least the material is premium. Whether the geometry of those drills and tips is also premium I dont know.
I hear what you are saying Rol, but they are "cheap" drills, so can't expect perfection. They did a reasonable job without breaking and would be OK for the average handyman. IMHO. Cheers Rob
I'm going to dress their cutting edges on the linisher first opportunity. The grind is too coarse. I'm sure this will bring them up a lot. I will be reporting back on the set over time. Cheers Rob
I see your point also. At that price I would not mind if I had to sharpen the tips correctly before using the drills. However, if I have to throw away drills due to whobble or being 12.6 instead of 13mm that exceeds my patience. By the way did you watch the video link? It is Pierre's Garage testing and comparing Banggood's cobalt HHS drills with Harbour Freight's and Canadian Tire's. Banggood is winning by a good margin.
Hi Rol, Great video. The BG ones did well. I don't have the facility to do Rockwell type testing but I liked what I saw. I have visited Pierre a few times and finally subscribed. I looked on the BG site to see what was on offer and was surprised at how cheap the cobalt drills were. But like a lot of BG stuff I think the quality between batches can be variable. Maybe even different suppliers. Check out the text reviews for the reduced shank Cobalt drills and you will see one guy not a happy chappy with his set - poor finish etc. Luck of the draw. Same with the HSS drill set, mine are better than what Rolingmetal received. I generally go for a product that has had quite a few positive reviews, and expect things to go well, or I pick a product no one has reviewed as a wild card and expect anything to happen - eg that very small inverter welder. Just so long as viewers understand they are getting cheap gear and don't expect miracles. Cheers Rob
Careful there, good drills are made with deliberate back taper. The size over the lip is a trifle larger than the shank. Other things being equal a drill with back taper exhibits less margin wear at the lip and it drills deep holes with fewer problems. I know you're probably limited for time but it would have been nice to compare the thickness of the web and the web taper of your Banggood set Vs same size drills of known good quality. These details are critical to balance strength Vs chip evacuation. A cutting test and a hardness test of the shank plus a spark test of the the business end would also be interesting to see. In my experience, cheap import drill sets are made well enough but the metallurgy and heat treatment are often mediochre. The cutting edges may be OK but the shanks are often far too soft. You want the flutes to be Rc-60 or so and the shank at spring temper or a bit less. I can re-sharpen drills that dull quickly but once the shank bends from some trivial bump or a lunge from break'thru, they alway have a dogleg (US-speak) after straightening: it's almost unsalvageable. So you're back to piecemeal replacement.
It's difficult to squeeze a lot of testing into short video time. I agree with everything you've said. Check out the next video where I give some bits a severe hardness test. It also gives more information on web characteristics, finish etc. Cheers Rob
Very through review Rob, thanks for sharing. Looks like that set's a good deal. They've come a long way with affordable drill bits, I remember back when a cheap drill bit was made out of a really sort metal, carbon steel would have been a step up. They were so soft the sides of the holes would cut into the body of the bit! I think it was crapium or something.
I have found through years of negative experience that drill bits are one of the few tools im always happy to pay a premium for. I even bought a magnetic rotabroach drill just to be done with the fu...... things. My blood pressure goes up faster than a teenage boys .... when i snap a drill in da hole.
I've seen some similar cheaper ones we have here by Bergen; 'Engineers drills' . I was interested in them just for the metal case though, as they have a range for all the offset bits, including tapping drills sizes etc (Metric). I was just going to put all my decent bits into it & stick the others in a tin for spares. Years ago we bought some imports that weren't even titanium coated, they were just cheap HSS, painted with gold paint! Kept the metal tin again though. They dulled quickly used in the lathe & miller & you had to keep sharpening them, waste of time. I've done a review of that same micrometer recently. It's not bad considering certain brands sell it stamped with their logo & colours for £40 to £70 vs. the £15 or so I paid. Ratchet is too sensitive though, have to keep turning it a few times to make sure it gets its closest reading. Not a big deal.
It really all depends on what you are drilling. Most of these cheap sets are "tool Steel". Good enough for aluminum, brass, bronze copper and other non ferrous metals. If you know how sharpen them they do ok for cast iron too. However if you are going to get into Iron, steel or anything harder, don't waste your money. Drills and taps used in ferrous metals need to be "high speed steel" or better. Preferably cobalt. And I don't recommend buying a set. You can order individual sizes and you will have a lot of sizes you will never use. The difference in cost will be made up buying just the sizes you need.
The review itself doesn't really have much technical substance. I've purchased many Asian drills and the first few holes are generally acceptable. Poor quality material, poor sizing and poor grinding often plague these units. Measuring TIR would be a good start. Drill a few holes and measure them. Jamming a drill into some material isn't the best either. Please spot it first. It would be nice to see a real comparison between a quality brand and these.
Where IS this place, Bugeree ? Lots of people seem to go there! but otherwise as always , interesting videos - can concur with many of the Commenters below: Getting ripped off at even TWICE the price is too much - in the name of buying local. Now let's face it, cheap mild steel type Bits are total waste of time, these will at tleast drill a few hles in mild steel or plenty in timber Lumber, but when Mumber gets a ' Hadonit' with a high speed drill held in his paws , well how long do even good drills last ? so good enough for the apprentices. But give a good a lad a proper tool and you will ENCOURAGE him ( ok Her too ) to be Better. Thanks for your efforts.
A real Richard Cranium Rob I buy a fair bit from both Banggood and AliExpress and never had a dud product from either great video Rob thanks Tony from Western Australia
Bought a $20 set from Bunnings the other day half were good and sharp half were good for wood only, you buy a $10 good 10mm drill bit and it puts the hole set to shame, you get hat you pay for 80% of the time cheers.
At 11:25 , 11:46, & 12:29 your neighbours just *do not* approve of your micrometer ratchet technique :) But seriously, it's sad that the govt has decided that we need to a) pay 10% GST on all small package imports (as of 1st July 2018), and b) are discussing reaming us on a flat fee for ''security inspection' (currently mooted at $5 per package) on all imports regardless of cost. So much for Free Trade... Personally I have no problems with the GST generally, or import tariffs *if we make it here already* but this rape and pillage is just underhanded (I already pay for customs security in my income tax).
It's just my regular half dozen haters. Probably the same guys who acted like nobs and I hid their comments trying to get payback.. He He. Good for a chuckle. Losers.
This is a common issue even with pricier offerings. When you see the drill bit wobble as it cuts that is an indicator that the grind is uneven resulting in one edge cutting more than the other. I have found that even the likes of Dormer and Güring cut much better if you re-grind them with something like a Christen Type 1. The probelm is that these grinders take up room and cost a fortune. If you need an accurate hole, then either bore it out as a final step or use a reamer.
Forgive me for I have sinned. I started buying stuff from Banggood. It's 1/5th the price; No shipping; No tax. Goodbye western world economy, the Asian Amazon is here. I saw this coming in the early 80's. I didn't expect it to take this long before their quality/price made them too enticing to avoid. I still feel badly about it all. But why spend $100 on a partoff blade and inserts when I can get them for $20.
I went through them this morning and found that six needed deburring on the cutting edges. A light touch on the linisher and they were razor sharp and clean edged.
I also found two that were poorly ground in the under 4 mm sizes. One of those was ground totally wrong. Easily corrected.
The grind on all of them is not to Sutton standard (coarser) but quite workable. At first re-sharpen they should come up nice and shiny just like the Suttons I have.
I did a video way back on grinding back relief on drills by hand. But in this case it's just a matter of touching the edge back relief against a belt sander to polish/deburr the cutting edge without grinding away any major metal.
It's almost like polishing the existing surface.
Linishers are good for this and other fine sharpening, facing, edge breaking jobs. Very handy unit for the workshop.
Cheers Rob
I always sharpen the very small drills on the linisher, because it's finer grit and easier to see (I use a magnifying glass as well) and you are only taking off a very small amount of metal.
It's all practice. I see people trying to sharpen drills on the normal outside curved surface of the wheel, but that's not how I was taught. Use the flat side of the wheel.
Small drills are more difficult for sure.
Cheers Rob
Ha Ha . I was at a farm fair last Friday and there was a guy there selling and demonstrating the Drill Doctor machine. It was damn expensive ($450 AU) and it seemed to work OK. Well, he made it work OK ;) I've heard varying reports on it.
How well it does tiny drills I can't say. I didn't see any tiny drills in the demonstration. Looking at the way it operates I doubt it would handle them very well.
Cheers Rob
notice you had a couple of tapers showing in the frame at the intro and wondered if you have knowledge of B&S #9. There is a 60yr old mill in my very near future with this spindle but no tooling. One may use an MT2 in its stead?
regards c
Can't help you on that one Chris. Get away from Morse and Schaublin tapers and I'm stuffed. Try Practical Machinist Forum. They tend to be pretty pedantic so you will get the technically correct answer without a doubt ;)
Cheers Rob
They are on the top of my list Rob thanks. Perhaps the hearsay will become more concrete. Best ever, C
You cant measure drill bits by their shank ; the are measured over the flutes
Note: The stainless steel round stock that pulled one drill badly was very poor quality with variable hardness throughout it. I've had a similar result with other drills used on it.
Thanks for making the video and sharing your test with us all! I do not think the test showing a NEW drill bit drilling mild steel less than 1/2 deep really shows anything towards durability and this is where Chinese drill bits fail usually DURABILITY. Get them too hot even once and they are toast, they work great on the first few jobs then tire out quickly. Quality USA, GERMAN, or the UK made drills last a long time under severe use, I would be surprised if these drills could compete with them. A good test would be some harder meta, around 35 to 40 RC and put them up against an American made drill, this I would LOVE to see. Thanks again for taking time to make the video for us my friend!
These are CHEAP drills so you have remember that when judging them against quality units. I would never expect them to be as good. If you do, then I'm afraid you're missing the point of the video.
Roger that my friend! Sorry I get passionate about drill bits LOL
Have their cutting edges held up like normal?
They seem fine. I haven't used them a lot but so far no problem.
I used to only have a set of cheapo Chinese drill bits until one of them broke and I bought a Sutton Tools bit to replace it. I didn't know steel could cut like butter, I always assumed the screeching and struggling was normal. I've been spoiled and I don't know if I can go back.
I have some Suttons in Imperial and they are nice drills. No argument there. The test ones are el cheapos and you just have to remember that when assessing them. It's all many people can afford.
Thanks, Rob. I recently bought a set of these (without the case) but haven't used them yet. Glad you gave them an endorsement. I've been more than pleased with the quality of Harbor Freight's imperial sets, too. Banggood is forcing me to become metric: it's wonderful what tooling I can afford if I forsake (at least partially) imperial sizes.
They don't seem to have much Imperial stuff. Metric is taking over and I suppose the demand just isn't there.
Eh I think pretty much any bit will manage to chew it's way though a few holes. I think to have any real valid opinion a much more extensive test would be in order.
Yes. But that's beyond the scope of this video. I will report back in another video if anything bad happens with them.
Rob
in the u.s.a.here, thanks for to time you put into this.
ive had cheap drill bits and expensive ones and from my experience anything under 5/8 will break and dull quickly unless used in a precision press and oiled.
Yes, they don't stand up to free hand drilling very well. Can't beat a drill press or lathe for accuracy and drill bit survival.
In general, I approve of your efforts to review affordable tooling. But I have a few serious problems with your testing methodology.
First off, it seems you've already decided to keep the set before you even do any testing (when you first unbox, you say "this is a nice set that I will only use in collets.") This indicates a serious bias.
Secondly, you include no inspection of the finished holes. No matter how nice the tools look, if the result isn't satisfactory, they're junk. Are the holes on size? Have they been drilled straight? What is the surface like inside the hole?
Lastly, you make no mention of wear resistance. This is a serious omission. Are the edges worn already after drilling the one or two holes that you show? If not, how many holes are they good for? Not all HSS is created equal, and we don't know if these will hold their edge or need frequent sharpening.
No. What I meant is that those drills will not go the same way as the dozens of others I have - being chewed up by jawed chucks, and will only be used in collets. I don't see any bias there. That was the reason I got them. Whether they are any good still had to be determined. As it turned out they are quite OK for the money IMHO.
I went through them this morning and found that six needed deburring on the cutting edges. A light touch on the linisher and they were razor sharp and clean edged.
I also found two that were poorly ground in the under 4 mm sizes. One of those was ground totally wrong. Easily corrected. The grind on all of them is not to Sutton standard (coarser) but quite workable. At first re-sharpen they should come up nice and shiny just like the Suttons I have.
As for the holes, they looked OK in the video. There is a limit to how long a video needs to be and 20 min is about it.
Cheers Rob
Hey Rob, at least these are better than Chinesium drill bits used to be. I bought a set years ago and they wouldn't even begin to drill metal and would hardly drill into wood. You got those to drill into various pieces of steel, so that's a huge improvement.
I once saw a picture of a Chinese drill bit that had unwound the flutes. LOL. I could hardly believe my eyes. That's never happened to me, but it was pretty incredible.
Cheers Rob
LOL! None of my drill bits unwound, but several bent over into an "L" shape without breaking.
Yep, I have a set like that. Unbelieeevable !!!
I want to thank you so much for replying, you are one of the few TH-camrs that interact with your viewers and we really appreciate that!
Hi Rob,
My pleasure. Interaction with viewers is a major reason why I do YT. The big guys generally don't do it, for whatever reason.
I personally like to get some involvement and discussion going with viewers, so that we can all share our experiences and knowledge on the subject.
I think this is also what YT is aiming for with the videos it supports. It should after all be a learning medium.
I'm glad you appreciate my efforts.
Cheers the other Rob
Re: Drill size. Were you able to measure the land size of the drill, was it the same as the shank dimension? I buy a lot stuff from Banggood. I await your reply. Cheers
Hi Chris,
I'm going to do a follow up video shortly to cover some of the comments from viewers. So I will include that aspect in it.
I tried to keep the original video short but it still blew out. Can't do every thing with the time available.
Cheers Rob
Useful review Rob - had to dash thru because super busy. End result though - not at all bad though as always with any drill set, wonder how long term usage will shape out.
Testing the hardness with a file is by far a necessary step when assessing cheap drills other then size and grind. Its fairly easy to file on relief grind along the whole length to avoid cutting edges. Most shanks will be dead soft and the hardness changes up and down the bit. Although only a rough test that cannot account for tempering, (a considerable issue) it does seem to vary with some bits only being hard for the first 10-20mm!
Check back and let us know how they did after you drilled several inches of hole would you Rob? 1/4" deep hole from a new bit doesn't let me know enough about the steel. The cheap ones that look great but have to be sharpened very frequently I like to avoid whereas there are some pretty good cheap ones. I have a deep drawer in my tool chest and another small roll around completely filled with drill bits but like you I don't have many metric ones so I am watching with interest. Take care. Doug
Hi Doug,
I will check back once they have done a bit of real work. Those gold coloured ones were crap really. Very brittle and cut no better than plain HSS. Time will tell with the BG ones. They sailed through the test metals OK. Cutting wet would be easier on them.
Cheers Rob
If you get the ones with three flats ground into the shanks you get positive drive from the regular drill chuck and avoid the mangling. (But then they are not really usable in collets)
If you have your drill bit slip in a Jacobs chuck, there is a reason. Most people tighten one of these using the key in one hole ONLY. Once the drill bit takes a big bite, it starts slipping in the chuck. Then, most people will reinstall the key and exert "maximum" pressure on the key, again using only one hole. A drill chuck has 3 holes on purpose. In order to get the chuck tight for serious drilling in metal, you have to utilize all 3 holes to get the drill bit secure. The second and third hole always provide a degree or two of extra force after the first hole is totally tightened. It is physics.
Nothing new in what you are saying. I've always been taught and teach to use the three key positions each time. However, that's still no guarantee that the soft drill shank will not slip if the drill jambs.
They make drill shanks soft so that the blade edges of the chucks will bite in basically. Collets grip completely differently and will not mark or damage drills. Plus you can do a collet up way tighter than any drill chuck - big shifter V's poxy little chuck key.
No contest on both points.
Basically 3 jaw drill chucks are pretty crude devices.
woulda been cool to add hardness test
I find most of the Chinesium cheapos have a terrible grind, as in non-simmetrical. Can you make a few macro photos or at least measure the cutting edges on both sides? Also, they never seem to have a secondary grind (spilt point) not even on smaller sizes, and that IHMO really makes for a good drill. These wouldn't happen to hava a split point on smaller ones?
Thanks for the video :)
The grind could definitely be better/ finer.
Yeah, you can see the 13mm particularly wasn't throwing out symmetrical chips.
Looks like a decent set overall. I generally go for drills in that price range and then spend some time doing a 4 / 6 facet resharpen before using them. Apart from the default grind being crappy (I had a set of Tivoly drills that wouldn't even make holes "out of the box") the only other problem is undersizing - once they're properly sharpened, they make undersized holes...
The drill marked 13 mm that measured 12.64 mm is 0.06 mm shy of being exactly 1/2 inch. The drill marked 12.5 mm is also the next imperial size down (31/64 inch).
Hi Tim,
I recon you're dead right. A bit of skuldugery going on there. The 13 mm one also had the size ground off. Crafty Chinese ;)
Had some cheap "nitrided" drills that were best for wood, as using them on steel resulted in them turning into left hand thread bits. But they were fine on wood or plastic, and I had a few that were bendable by hand. Think they left out a few important steps in manufacture, starting with not using steel that was capable of being hardened, or they used thick wire instead.
I have two small cheapo drill sets in those flip open plastic cases and one set you can bend them at least 40 degrees and then back again, and the other set is OK and nice and hard. The weird thing is that the bendy ones still manage to drill steel OK and hold an edge - for a while.
G'day Rob. Soon you will have one of everything Banggood has in stock. Thanks for the review.
I'm working on it.
Hello, I'm new to your channel, and would like to know the names or brands of your:
• round drill holder
• micrometer
• drill speed gauge
Those things look great, and seem to be missing from workshop.
Any help on names and makes are highly appreciated.
Thanks! Dominik
That round drill holder is no longer available, but there are generic copies around - similar design (some have a double row),
The digital micrometer is one I got from Banggood - it's very good - still available,
Not sure what you mean by drill speed gauge, but I do use a cheap digital laser tachometer from Ebay - readily available generic type.
With brand names it all comes down to how much you want to pay. I have top quality stuff as well but most were bought second hand. Brands like Mitutoyo, Starrett, IGaging, Moore and Wright are all good measuring gear.
Cheers Rob
I had a good laugh on this one. A guy gave me the thumbs down on the video less than 5 minutes after I made it public. What a wanker . The video is over 20 minutes long . He He. These guys make my day.
xynudu lol I just noticed that
There always seems to be one tosser out there
It was a bit odd. The shank at the very end had been ground back and the size stamping was missing. I measured it on the actual flute size section. You may well be right on the money.
The thumbs down guy might not like videos showing the purchase of Asian made tools. Many have this attitude. If you buy from Western dealers you pay 3 times more and still get rebranded Asian merchandise.
Ha Ha that's a good one. You're probably right.
Cheers Rob
Good review. yeah I never coated drills waste of time and money . I just made a video review on the 25 piece m35 cobalt set from banggood. Very good drills
I found that if you buy the best drill bit set possible and don't use them, like I do, then they don't wear out or break... LOL
Ha Ha Ha that's a good one. My Bro-Inlaw is like that.
I did some research in the past on the thumbs down. TH-cam rates thumbs up or down as the video got a reaction/feedback! Therefore your video must be good and is now rated higher. Also say the guy that did the down likes machining videos. Well he just told TH-cam he doesn't like machining videos by using the thumb down so none will be recommended to him for viewing. He just hurt himself!
Hi Dave,
Well that's something I didn't know. Very interesting. I was looking at my stats the other day and about half of the views were from YT recommendations. So it has a big effect on the channel.
While I have no problem with thumbs down from viewers that watch most of a video, this guy was obviously a total wally.
Having made videos I rarely (if ever) would give a thumbs down to any video where a half decent effort had been made, knowing full well just how much work goes into doing it. I expect most other contributors feel the same way.
I don't hesitate to weed out any viewers with anti social tendencies, to keep the comments section clean.
It makes for a far better forum type experience for the regular viewers.
Cheers Rob
Same with the cheapest, they last a long time if not used.
I'm the same way Rob. Someone would have to say something offensive to me to get a thumbs-down. Otherwise, I figure, they're giving me something for free. If I don't like what they're doing, I just won't go back. I'm not going to throw rotten tomatoes at them. However, many feel differently, obviously.
If you want good drills you buy Cobalt. They are about 3 times the price, but it is worth it as it stays sharp a lot longer and can take a lot higher heat. And for tough materials you can't beat them. And all of the ones i have seen for sale have split point and 135 degree point angle making them ideal for both tough materials like stainless, and all other materials as well, and self centering.
And even the made in china e-bay cobalt drills are good.
G'day Rob it's not bad stuff banggood I've got cutters and surface cutters and they are good and I will get their drill sets as mine are pretty manly as well. Thanks for the review the company is certainly making its mark on the world of machining ect. Regards John
Any decent precision machinist worth his salt was taught to never put materials other than bright round stock in a 3 jaw self centering chuck, doing so puts uneven strain on the scroll, this practice eventually causes deformation of the scroll, effecting concentric tolerance and repeatable accuracy of the chuck
Really ?. Put two of the object sides against two jaws, then pull up against the third. What unequal pressure are we talking about ? Total BS
Look like value for money to me. Your follow up post will be interesting.
Good to see you using a chuck with a key. The hand tightening one's are totally crap.
I tend to agree and buy keyed chucks, but keyless are handy and fast acting for some jobs. eg. swapping out centre drills in a lathe tailstock.
They tend to be poor in hammer drill situations from my experience. The quality ball bearing units work much better than the el-cheapos for sure.
It appears you may not be interested in my next video, as I will be reviewing what appears to be a Banggood keyless Rohm clone ;)
Cheers Rob
Hi Rob,
boogered up drill bit set
***************************
having a collet chuck and a tool post grinder it would be benefitial to grind the shanks smooth again. And keeping the tips well ground is your own job anyway. And when they get short you have a free spot drill set if you grind the tip to 140deg ;-) (Spot drills should have a tip angle of 140 deg not 90 deg as often written and even produced and offered for sale.) And they should have a split tip too because the web (look it up if you dont know: drill web) is quite wide on shortened drills. The web is not cutting but squishing the metal to the outside where it eventually will be cut.
Drill set to buy
***************
Look out for HSS with cobalt in it. It is about 2 Rockwell harder than standard HSS. Sometimes that decides btw success and failure. And it is still much cheaper than carbide but is not as brittle. For a habitual rebar machinist that should set off bells. ;-)
I agree that the golden TiN coating is useless for the home shop machinist. It can be beneficial for certain series production set-ups.
The new drill set under review:
*********************************
The bigger ones should have a split tip (for those who dont know look it up: drill split tip). That is specially useful if you drill metal with a hand held drilling machine. It reduces the necessary force considerably. Using a pedestal grinder or even a dremel grinder you can split the tips yourself. The good drill bit sets already have it. You have to redo it after each sharpening. Actually it is part of the tip sharpening procedure. Usually drill bits are ground along its length with a very slight taper widest at the tip and a few hundreds of a mil less at the shank. Therefore you should always measure the drill across the cutting edges not at the shank. But in your case where 3.5 tenths not hundreds of a mil are missing it makes no difference. (I agree with Craig Marshall. Probably sb grabbed the wrong box of drills and got half inch ones. Was the 13mm drill stamped 13 mm on the shank?)
Drilling test: In some drills the unequal chip size off the two cutting edges indicate unsymmetric tip grinds. Verdict: These drills are NOT ok. From this set you have to throw away at least about three due to whobble and diameter deviations. Then all the rest you have to sharpen and split the tips of the bigger ones before using them so that they cut symmetrically and non-oversized holes.
Banggood also sell cobalt HSS drills but not in 1-13mm sets. (th-cam.com/video/rd1eyxrlIhw/w-d-xo.html) You need to put together your set by buying single drills or subsets. Then at least the material is premium. Whether the geometry of those drills and tips is also premium I dont know.
I hear what you are saying Rol, but they are "cheap" drills, so can't expect perfection. They did a reasonable job without breaking and would be OK for the average handyman. IMHO.
Cheers Rob
I'm going to dress their cutting edges on the linisher first opportunity. The grind is too coarse. I'm sure this will bring them up a lot. I will be reporting back on the set over time.
Cheers Rob
I see your point also. At that price I would not mind if I had to sharpen the tips correctly before using the drills. However, if I have to throw away drills due to whobble or being 12.6 instead of 13mm that exceeds my patience. By the way did you watch the video link? It is Pierre's Garage testing and comparing Banggood's cobalt HHS drills with Harbour Freight's and Canadian Tire's. Banggood is winning by a good margin.
Hi Rol,
Great video. The BG ones did well. I don't have the facility to do Rockwell type testing but I liked what I saw. I have visited Pierre a few times and finally subscribed.
I looked on the BG site to see what was on offer and was surprised at how cheap the cobalt drills were. But like a lot of BG stuff I think the quality between batches can be variable. Maybe even different suppliers.
Check out the text reviews for the reduced shank Cobalt drills and you will see one guy not a happy chappy with his set - poor finish etc. Luck of the draw. Same with the HSS drill set, mine are better than what Rolingmetal received.
I generally go for a product that has had quite a few positive reviews, and expect things to go well, or I pick a product no one has reviewed as a wild card and expect anything to happen - eg that very small inverter welder.
Just so long as viewers understand they are getting cheap gear and don't expect miracles.
Cheers Rob
Great video as usual!
Careful there, good drills are made with deliberate back taper. The size over the lip is a trifle larger than the shank. Other things being equal a drill with back taper exhibits less margin wear at the lip and it drills deep holes with fewer problems.
I know you're probably limited for time but it would have been nice to compare the thickness of the web and the web taper of your Banggood set Vs same size drills of known good quality. These details are critical to balance strength Vs chip evacuation. A cutting test and a hardness test of the shank plus a spark test of the the business end would also be interesting to see.
In my experience, cheap import drill sets are made well enough but the metallurgy and heat treatment are often mediochre. The cutting edges may be OK but the shanks are often far too soft. You want the flutes to be Rc-60 or so and the shank at spring temper or a bit less. I can re-sharpen drills that dull quickly but once the shank bends from some trivial bump or a lunge from break'thru, they alway have a dogleg (US-speak) after straightening: it's almost unsalvageable. So you're back to piecemeal replacement.
It's difficult to squeeze a lot of testing into short video time. I agree with everything you've said. Check out the next video where I give some bits a severe hardness test. It also gives more information on web characteristics, finish etc.
Cheers Rob
Hi Rob, thanks for uploading this, I must admit i have been as entertained by the variety of comments I've read through! Some people!!!!! :-)...
The comments make it all worth while He He.
I like HHS bits Rob , Great review
They normally do the job. If you want to drill really hard stuff there's a good trick you can do with a modified masonry bit. Know that one ?
Rob
sure do man !
I miss the old channel of you tinkering around in your shed.
It's still happening.
Very through review Rob, thanks for sharing. Looks like that set's a good deal.
They've come a long way with affordable drill bits, I remember back when a cheap drill bit was made out of a really sort metal, carbon steel would have been a step up. They were so soft the sides of the holes would cut into the body of the bit! I think it was crapium or something.
I had a few old Imperial drills that were soft like that. I think they were only meant for wood working.
I was trained to measure the diameter of a twist drill at the cutting point rather than the shank.
Yes, that's really the correct way to do it. I was a bit slack like most machinists/mechanics I've met. I will go over that in a follow up video.
I have found through years of negative experience that drill bits are one of the few tools im always happy to pay a premium for. I even bought a magnetic rotabroach drill just to be done with the fu...... things. My blood pressure goes up faster than a teenage boys .... when i snap a drill in da hole.
good review rob,
I've seen some similar cheaper ones we have here by Bergen; 'Engineers drills' . I was interested in them just for the metal case though, as they have a range for all the offset bits, including tapping drills sizes etc (Metric). I was just going to put all my decent bits into it & stick the others in a tin for spares. Years ago we bought some imports that weren't even titanium coated, they were just cheap HSS, painted with gold paint! Kept the metal tin again though. They dulled quickly used in the lathe & miller & you had to keep sharpening them, waste of time. I've done a review of that same micrometer recently. It's not bad considering certain brands sell it stamped with their logo & colours for £40 to £70 vs. the £15 or so I paid. Ratchet is too sensitive though, have to keep turning it a few times to make sure it gets its closest reading. Not a big deal.
What's it sold as in the UK? you buy a set of Dormer bits on UK ebay for £29, wouldn't waste your money on Chinese bits.
Hi Ashley,
I just checked out the mic review. Very good. Also subscribed.
Cheers Rob
Not bad, the last set I bought was around $100 NZ
It really all depends on what you are drilling. Most of these cheap sets are "tool Steel". Good enough for aluminum, brass, bronze copper and other non ferrous metals. If you know how sharpen them they do ok for cast iron too. However if you are going to get into Iron, steel or anything harder, don't waste your money. Drills and taps used in ferrous metals need to be "high speed steel" or better. Preferably cobalt. And I don't recommend buying a set. You can order individual sizes and you will have a lot of sizes you will never use. The difference in cost will be made up buying just the sizes you need.
The review itself doesn't really have much technical substance. I've purchased many Asian drills and the first few holes are generally acceptable. Poor quality material, poor sizing and poor grinding often plague these units. Measuring TIR would be a good start. Drill a few holes and measure them. Jamming a drill into some material isn't the best either. Please spot it first. It would be nice to see a real comparison between a quality brand and these.
Yeah them Chinesium bits are made from case hardened plasticine!
Another good review heres a bit of trivia Australia went metric 44 yrs ago
Just shows how old most of my drill bits are ;)
Where IS this place, Bugeree ? Lots of people seem to go there! but otherwise as always , interesting videos - can concur with many of the Commenters below: Getting ripped off at even TWICE the price is too much - in the name of buying local. Now let's face it, cheap mild steel type Bits are total waste of time, these will at tleast drill a few hles in mild steel or plenty in timber Lumber, but when Mumber gets a ' Hadonit' with a high speed drill held in his paws , well how long do even good drills last ? so good enough for the apprentices. But give a good a lad a proper tool and you will ENCOURAGE him ( ok Her too ) to be Better. Thanks for your efforts.
Bugeree is just a bit past Shit Creek. Generally within work piece throwing distance.
Oh? thawt place was Buggert! anywhere near Ubgit Creek? - in Widget County ?
Could be.
A real Richard Cranium Rob I buy a fair bit from both Banggood and AliExpress and never had a dud product from either
great video Rob thanks
Tony from Western Australia
Bought a $20 set from Bunnings the other day half were good and sharp half were good for wood only, you buy a $10 good 10mm drill bit and it puts the hole set to shame, you get hat you pay for 80% of the time cheers.
At 11:25 , 11:46, & 12:29 your neighbours just *do not* approve of your micrometer ratchet technique :) But seriously, it's sad that the govt has decided that we need to a) pay 10% GST on all small package imports (as of 1st July 2018), and b) are discussing reaming us on a flat fee for ''security inspection' (currently mooted at $5 per package) on all imports regardless of cost. So much for Free Trade... Personally I have no problems with the GST generally, or import tariffs *if we make it here already* but this rape and pillage is just underhanded (I already pay for customs security in my income tax).
I totally agree. It will probably cost more to run than it will bring in. Having said that, some countries also do it - eg. Germany.
4 downvotes already? Must be some drill bit snobs that are mad you didn't spend $140 for a hobby set of drill bits.
It's just my regular half dozen haters. Probably the same guys who acted like nobs and I hid their comments trying to get payback.. He He. Good for a chuckle. Losers.
I think they would benefit from a finer grind/sharpen. The HSS seems pretty hard and should hold an edge well. Time will tell.
This is a common issue even with pricier offerings. When you see the drill bit wobble as it cuts that is an indicator that the grind is uneven resulting in one edge cutting more than the other. I have found that even the likes of Dormer and Güring cut much better if you re-grind them with something like a Christen Type 1. The probelm is that these grinders take up room and cost a fortune. If you need an accurate hole, then either bore it out as a final step or use a reamer.
That wobble was caused by the shit variable quality of the stainless steel. The same drill went through the mild steel with no wobble.
Forgive me for I have sinned. I started buying stuff from Banggood. It's 1/5th the price; No shipping; No tax. Goodbye western world economy, the Asian Amazon is here. I saw this coming in the early 80's. I didn't expect it to take this long before their quality/price made them too enticing to avoid. I still feel badly about it all. But why spend $100 on a partoff blade and inserts when I can get them for $20.
Why indeed ?
Nobendium Chinesium 😂
A relatively common element these days.