Only a little into the video and...as a former engineer and acoustician...I can say this is going to be one of the most clicked home studio vids out there in short time. Or at least it SHOULD be. Put the GAS on hold and check out your space. Great stuff. Don’t tell Junkie XL tho.
sonar-works user here, im happy with the result my mastering engineer saw a big improvement on my mixes,and i feel confident to master a bit myself to listen to it around. These are good solutions.Nice video mate
Thanks for your video, which talks about a major problem we all struggle with on a daily basis. REW is an incredible tool, and despite being free, it can easily rival with other commercial softwares, if fully exploited. With a good dose of patience it is absolutely possible to "flatten the curve" of the frequency response, on an almost manic level I would say. This does not mean that the problem is completely solved, because by adding a 10 or 15 bands EQ the phase of the signal is screwed up. And the problem is solved only on the frequency level, and not in the time-domain (as you rightly mentioned). Having said that, Room Eq Wizard allowed me to have a correct frequency response with two satellites + a subwoofer, in an apartment that is absolutely not acoustically treated. I had never thought about passing the IR through Live's convolver. I believe that it could be a correct procedure, but it is limited to working only in Ableton and, for any future corrections of your curve, it implies to completely redo the process from scratch. An excellent alternative for me is to load an Audio Unit EQ in Audio Hijack, and put into it all the informations obtained from REW. You will have all your OS audio to pass through the corrective EQ, no matter it's TH-cam, your DAW or VLC.
Dan Worrall mentions this a lot. When comparing headphones to speakers a point often missed is how spacial awareness works with sound. When listening using headphones we isolate our left & right ears. When listening using speakers our left & right ear receive the sound of both speakers with a slight timing difference. This makes mixing in stereo when dealing with reverb/ delay / panning difficult with only headphones.
I don’t disagree at all. But given most recordings these days are listened to on earbuds, portable speakers, from a far front corner of a car’s interior...does the hours spent on properly imaging the high hat matter that much? In my experience people spend more time placing a background vocal in space than making sure the damned thing is mono summable. I feel like headphones mixed with far field monitoring is a good approach...headphones for detail (and if used properly way nicer on ears than NS10s) and if you’re old school some big old Westlakes for visceral feel. Toss in a mono summed SoundCube to make sure it still sounds ok thru a crap portable speaker. Bob’s your uncle.
Oh...reverb though. That can be painful to try to get right in headphones or a poorly treated room. Sometimes your minivan is the only place that works!
i notice a massive amount of people wander around in public with expensive headphones and earbuds on now. I think its actually the way most people consume their music even when driving hence why the fire and ambulance drivers stand on the horns for long periods as drivers are not using their crappy stereo sound and acoustic space
Awesome video as usual :) Little additional free trick that works for me : reducing (a bit) the distance between your ears and the speakers, while keeping the equilateral triangle, helps increasing the ratio between direct sound and reflected (roomy) sound. It's the same concept as when you put a microphone closer to the source to record less of the room but inverted, as a speaker is essentially a microphone in reverse. Doesn't help with lower frequencies problem though, where as you said, correctional Eq is definitely the cheapest trick! :)
always grateful for your demonstrations, explanations, tips, insights and humor! i'm enjoying this. it's actually exactly the information I was looking for since I moved to a new apartment.
I basically gave up striving for perfection. I hung some heavy, lined curtains on the window. That's it. Room sounds however it sounds. Only thing that actually works for me is, firstly, mixing at low volumes, secondly, using headphones plus my monitors, and thirdly, listening on loads of devices, making notes. I write out a mix, upload it as a private track on soundcloud, and make notes in the timeline in my car, at work, in living room hifi, on the Bluetooth speaker in kitchen.. Go back, make tonal balance corrections, a/b'ing reference tracks using metric a/b (since magic ab was canned!) on day two, write it out, upload as private track on soundcloud again, check the mix again, last set of notes, and correct again. Folk say my mixes sound good. And those private uploads with critical listening, you often hear plain ole mistakes or mix tweaks.. The fixes usually take about half hour, which is fine. Sometimes, I do write the mix out, and import the stereo mix down into a new project, and just some saturation, EQ/dynamic eq/multiband compressor, and limiter, in my "mastering template" project, but more often than not, I just EQ a bit in the mix project..
I should say, I use Sonarworks Headphone too. My headphones (KRK KNS 8400 and Koss Portapros) are both on the (extensive) supported list. Their plugin is last on my chain in my default Ableton set, disabled by default. I don't know how accurate the profiling exactly is, but it is super useful as another reference, because it's so easy to set up in the context of the DAW.
Great video for folks who aren't going to re-arrange their rooms and invest in lots of sound dampening. Get some monitors you like, adjust your EQing with some free or inexpensive software, and always check your work on headphones and other sound systems. Keep the comments flowing, Loopop encourages the feedback, and it's good for everyone.
Flattening the curve is definitely trending right now. :) One simple tip I have for everyone (and myself) pack away that damn resonating acoustic guitar :)
Great video. I'm experimenting and evaluating REW, Arc3 and Dirac currently. Sonarworx didn't work with my USB-measurement microphone unfortunately. I will definitely go for correction in the bass. Large improvement for my home studio.
If you read this comment, would be great to see a review of the new ARC 12 room equaliser in hardware form. So far it looks like it works well, and for the money could be a godsend to those of us who haven't got the space or budget (or knowledge!) to properly optimise their music studio environment.
You’ve noticed a really nice topic, that everyone looks for flat response in monitors, but that’s the one which is easily treated by Sonarworks. What’s really hard to measure is ADSR reproduction, which from my perspective is way more important that frequency flattenes, but instead almost no one measures that.
another important option. use reference tracks. listen by a/b to the track you recorded. You can have the crappiest room and speakers and if its similarly crappy sounding its EQ'd correctly. Someone has a lot of free by genera reference songs online or just choose songs that you listen to a lot in your room your brain will adjust and its free.
I have been dealing with this for a few months and worked with GIK Acoustics to better understand the problems in my room and create a plan of attack to resolve it. My first round with them I added 4 huge bass traps 2 on the front wall and 2 on the sides. I also added 2 bass traps over top of my listening position and immediately noticed a huge difference. I still have some low end frequencies to deal with, but as a start I'm very happy with where I am now. The size of my room is a major factor as to why the bass response is so bad and I can only try to reduce the reflections. Mixing has definitely been different now and I'm finding myself hearing things that I never heard before after the changes. I built my own before this exercise and I'm not an acoustician... and after taking measurements with REW I found that it was like they were not even on the walls. I don't recommend the DIY route unless you have a professional helping to design them.
Great help. My room is not treated. I bought sonarworks and I mix dance music. I use Yamaha HS8 and have the sub woofer. My Bass is 18 db too high. When I adjust I hate the lack of Bass. Lol. I purchased the headphones on your page. Can't wait to try them.
yamaha speakers are not the best eq wise and a big issue is if you have to eq them a lot then it kills the throw of the cone and the volume goes way down. mind you if you lack bass in the spekers they are good for listening to how it sounds in the averge car
@@williamshaneblyth played with sound for many days adjusting the DB game up and down and then realized that there is a way to finally get them set properly and I mastered a few mixes and played them on all types of different speakers and in the car and finally got it right but I must say it sure was a pain in the ass and took a very long time to get it right
Hah! I’m down to book a mastering sesh in the yard! Just to meet the human operating the hands that have been creating all the brilliant videos on this channel
Great video as usual. Your desk and ceiling would also be first reflection points! :) As you said, the low end is the biggest problem, to treat 100Hz problems you'd need like a 630mm deep absorber, multiple even (both sides)... haha.. measure your room and know where the low-end problems are and reference low end only on headphones and reference against songs you know well and get to know your setup is what I preach.. ;)
@@loopop you're welcome. haha yes, 52Hz would probably be around 6.5meters.. you could set up absorbers at the quarter wavelength (of 52Hz) away from the wall, which can help quite a bit. (that's where the acoustic particle velocity is highest (more movement = more loss to friction)). realistically you'd need a tuned panel or resonator for that frequency.. (like Helmholtz) but as you said in the video. the proper acoustic treatment gets expensive REALLY quickly... and with a few tricks and already knowing what the problem frequencies are you're halfway there :)
I'm very happy with the Adams - they're not harsh at all, more like a breath of fresh air on the highs. But the 207's are great too, I never compared them side by side though
At Christmas I purchased Beyerdynamic dt990 pro headphones. They are very reasonable for £100. At least I have a consistent reference point even if it's not the golden ideal, they have improved my confidence in making eq and compression choices. My "monitor" speakers are £140 pair of 40w powered pa speakers (QTX) I listen to TH-cam sets so know how they sound, just good enough for general listening. And if my music also sounds ok that's helpful because I don't like working for more than a few hours with headphones.
I'm sure it does but I don't remember how much... I suggest asking the company or looking at the specs. I've moved on to use IK's speakers which have ARC built in so I no longer use the software
@@loopop I too have the MTM with ARC calibration but I feel that the speakers just select a profile out of the available built-in ones, it's not that they're generating a full correction filter, are they?
@@loopop that's great news, it means the calibrated MTM should theoretically sound as flat as when using the ARC software while non calibrated, right ?
Pretty nice video, learned few new bits. I am a bit surprised you didn't mention or use dayton audio iMM-6 measument mic, it is extremely affordable with great specs for this task.
@@loopop Obviously it does not integrate so easily like options you mentioned :) But for 20$ it is very handy, I tend to measure venue setups or adjust home hi-fi using it as a helper. Keep up good work, really appreciate your videos
Although I'm not going to do any of this stuff😃 (maybe in a future when i have a more stable studio space) It is good to know specifics of why i need to trust the opinion of my headphones much more than my lying bastard monitors.
I solved all this by going to headphones. No more clutter with speakers/cables. No more room issues. And things sound so much better on headphones anyway. And neighbors/family love it. Unless you're a mastering engineer, headphones may be the way to go. I haven't gone back to monitors.
Great video by the way, didn't think I was going to watch the whole thing and now were here already. I have ADAMs as well, and have been using around +4 dB bass gain on them with the attenuators on the back, I was wondering if you have changed this at all on yours. Sounds logical to not do so, when you're doing REW, but in my room it definitely sounds rounder.
Thanks! Like I mention in the video, reducing the bass overall isn't a good strategy if you're looking for definition on individual notes when you have a bad bass mode situation (you saw the huge difference in the notes a semitone apart on the low end) - but sure, if you're looking for general bass reduction/gain then it will do the trick. Also, your room may not have the problems mine has - these bass modes really depend on the size and shape of the room.
hardware correction is always better IMHO because you don't have to deal with plugins and software. arc came out slightly better on the software side in this video
My studio is very honest about her acoustic quality. She's a muddy brick wall limiter with illegal underground techno basement acoustics. That's why I use headphones.
I believe. so, yes. If your room isn't properly treated - that's what I do. I'll jam out without them any time - I love the Adams and I even love my room modes sometimes... but when it's time to record and mix, headphones are how I make sure what I make is what others are likely to hear
I honestly didn't dig into REW enough to advise how to use it to actually address room issues, but rather just to show the problems. Indeed I recommend the more simpler Sonarworks or ARC
Hey Ziv, how are you doing? You sound a bit tired, hope it's nothing serious :/ What a coincidence - I have just ordered a Sonarworks bundle, right before watching your video 😅 Hope it will put my hearing paranoia to rest!
Thanks! I couldn't find it on amazon and I now see it's out of stock on Sonarwork's site unfortunately - there are a few others on amazon but I've not tested them. It comes with their bundle too, and there's a link to thank if you're interested
I use Sonarworks, but I don't put it in my DAW - I don't see that it has a valid function there. I use systemwide where it does nothing but correct the output to the speakers.
@@donepearce it’s not. Personally I and I think many others record performances (my videos/jams) much more than I mix after a performance, making real time mixing decisions as I go. That’s why I moved to speakers with correction
Early reflections. If you can hang a mirror on your wall and see a speaker in it, then the mirror position is a good place treat. Also not the ceiling. Most people forget about the ceiling.
The ATH-M40X are not that flat, they have a pretty serious 15 dB dip at around 4,000 Hz. For about the same price, my preference for the flattest, most revealing headphones are the classic Sony MDR-7506.
Yes, a little EQ can go a long way. By the way, if it's objects rattling (as opposed to an overall "pressure"/vibration) it might make sense to use tape or move them or something
yes - Room EQ wizard supports exporting to a bunch of devices (the top right of the screen when I generate the EQ filters). Also some speakers have built in room correction. I linked to the IK Multimedia ones in the description, if you want to go really high end some Genelecs have correction DSP
True, that's why measurement mics come with calibration files, each measured individually. Of course, we're assuming the mic manufacturer isn't lying...
Your point is correct, but the measurement with the iPhone microphone, especially when the phone is sitting on the same surface as your speakers is very inaccurate. You could at least hold the iPhone where your head is, but the frequency response of the mic on the iPhone is still pretty ugly.
Sound Check as I mention in the video, my point was not that people should use the iPhone as a measuring tool, but rather as a simple test to illustrate issues. That said, as you may have seen during my test, there’s actually pretty good correlation between the iPhone’s display and the measurement mic as shown in the daw graphics
@@loopop Yeah I checked your test on my Iphone after turning on my Sonarworks cal profile. My Sonarworks systemwide profile is not working as advertised! I will recalibrate but I suggest everyone check to make sure your cal files are actually doing what it's suppose to do.
Not gonna use it. Spend time making music instead of trying to understand all that and believe in it working. That mic will never be my two ears. I bought a mic and tried it before, it s too complicated. Should ve made music instead.
Migraine Gainn bass traps make a much bigger difference than using any correction software, which I also use. Bass traps and acoustic panels can drastically reduce problems at the source, which makes the software’s job much easier. This means that the final corrected sound is smoother and more natural, without loads of phasiness. The best thing I ever did in my studio was adding bass traps. The second best was acoustic panels. The third best was Sonarworks 4. I have used Arc 2 before and am now going to give Arc 3 a try because they have introduced a fantastic new feature. The ability to limit the range of the correction. So you can now allow everything from 200hz upwards through uncorrected. Bass is by far the worst offender, so having the room correction only on the bass is a game changing feature.
Besides being a false statement, you clearly didn't watch the video. I show Room EQ Wizard (free) as an alternative, and ARC 3 comes out slightly better than Sonarworks. hmm I wonder if you'll apologize
Not a very elaborate tutorial. You missed the part with resonances, the reverb. The room has both the frequency and time domain, if you attempt to fix the time domain using EQ you sre going to have a worse time than not doing anything about it at all. Research it everyone before trying this. Also if you move around a lot, what I mean is even 15cm away from the listening spot, you are also asking for trouble (that is if you're manipulating the higher end of the spectrum which has a very short wavelength). Think of EQ as the icing on the cake, otherwise you're going to probably make it worse than it already is.
Not only that I didn't miss the part about resonances and reverb - I show and measure it both indoors and out. I also mention that EQ is not advisable for frequencies above 1000hz, and take the time to show how moving the measurement spot (or your head) just an inch left or right makes a big difference on the higher end of the spectrum. Furthermore, I talk about positioning in the room and treatment before I talk about EQ. While EQ is icing on the cake, most people can't afford proper treatment, and a few notches here and there can go a long way, especially on the low end. I'm always happy to accept criticism and comments, and I certainly don't know everything nor pretend to make all encompassing videos, but typically it's better if you watch the video first.
@@loopop You're right, i haven't watched the whole video and was looking for the part where you talked about the things I found misisng but I couldn't find them. It's just that it's maybe not as exclaimed as it should be, I would talk about the problems first before talking about what CAN be done but that's just my opinion, if you say you did mention it then fine that's good then. Also in my experience Sonarworks is snakeoil, it does't correct any nulls and peaks properly, just "balances" the frequency response very roughly in my opinion. What it says is the result is far from reality and you can see that after using the microphone to measure the response post correction. EqualizerAPO and manual correction of everything is the way to go, of course if you know what you're doing, and it will take like probably a couple of hours to do so, it's not as accessible nor as convenient.
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Only a little into the video and...as a former engineer and acoustician...I can say this is going to be one of the most clicked home studio vids out there in short time. Or at least it SHOULD be. Put the GAS on hold and check out your space. Great stuff. Don’t tell Junkie XL tho.
Wow, thanks for the comment, I really appreciate it.
lol Junkie XL, i know what you mean!
George Ts if I were him I wouldn’t change a damned thing.
Flatten the curve...a bit of timely humor...I like it.
groaaaaaaan... came to the comments for this lol
sonar-works user here, im happy with the result my mastering engineer saw a big improvement on my mixes,and i feel confident to master a bit myself to listen to it around.
These are good solutions.Nice video mate
Thanks for your video, which talks about a major problem we all struggle with on a daily basis.
REW is an incredible tool, and despite being free, it can easily rival with other commercial softwares, if fully exploited. With a good dose of patience it is absolutely possible to "flatten the curve" of the frequency response, on an almost manic level I would say.
This does not mean that the problem is completely solved, because by adding a 10 or 15 bands EQ the phase of the signal is screwed up. And the problem is solved only on the frequency level, and not in the time-domain (as you rightly mentioned). Having said that, Room Eq Wizard allowed me to have a correct frequency response with two satellites + a subwoofer, in an apartment that is absolutely not acoustically treated.
I had never thought about passing the IR through Live's convolver. I believe that it could be a correct procedure, but it is limited to working only in Ableton and, for any future corrections of your curve, it implies to completely redo the process from scratch.
An excellent alternative for me is to load an Audio Unit EQ in Audio Hijack, and put into it all the informations obtained from REW. You will have all your OS audio to pass through the corrective EQ, no matter it's TH-cam, your DAW or VLC.
Extremely useful topic, thanks for sharing. In our time of "bedroom productions" we do need to know how to treat our bedrooms properly.
Glad it was helpful!
Dan Worrall mentions this a lot. When comparing headphones to speakers a point often missed is how spacial awareness works with sound. When listening using headphones we isolate our left & right ears. When listening using speakers our left & right ear receive the sound of both speakers with a slight timing difference. This makes mixing in stereo when dealing with reverb/ delay / panning difficult with only headphones.
I don’t disagree at all. But given most recordings these days are listened to on earbuds, portable speakers, from a far front corner of a car’s interior...does the hours spent on properly imaging the high hat matter that much? In my experience people spend more time placing a background vocal in space than making sure the damned thing is mono summable. I feel like headphones mixed with far field monitoring is a good approach...headphones for detail (and if used properly way nicer on ears than NS10s) and if you’re old school some big old Westlakes for visceral feel. Toss in a mono summed SoundCube to make sure it still sounds ok thru a crap portable speaker. Bob’s your uncle.
Oh...reverb though. That can be painful to try to get right in headphones or a poorly treated room. Sometimes your minivan is the only place that works!
@@deanrinehart I've been getting good results with waves abbey road 3
i notice a massive amount of people wander around in public with expensive headphones and earbuds on now. I think its actually the way most people consume their music even when driving hence why the fire and ambulance drivers stand on the horns for long periods as drivers are not using their crappy stereo sound and acoustic space
Awesome video as usual :)
Little additional free trick that works for me : reducing (a bit) the distance between your ears and the speakers, while keeping the equilateral triangle, helps increasing the ratio between direct sound and reflected (roomy) sound.
It's the same concept as when you put a microphone closer to the source to record less of the room but inverted, as a speaker is essentially a microphone in reverse.
Doesn't help with lower frequencies problem though, where as you said, correctional Eq is definitely the cheapest trick! :)
always grateful for your demonstrations, explanations, tips, insights and humor! i'm enjoying this. it's actually exactly the information I was looking for since I moved to a new apartment.
Ziv is 'that annoying neighbour who does sine sweeps in his backyard' 😂
I drove my family nuts this week. Everybody's walking around the house making sine sweeps
I'm a career engineer. My guru recently purchased ARC and says it's a total game hanger for him. Nice mid-range dip there, Bucko.
Another important video from loopop! This will help me a lot!
I basically gave up striving for perfection. I hung some heavy, lined curtains on the window. That's it. Room sounds however it sounds. Only thing that actually works for me is, firstly, mixing at low volumes, secondly, using headphones plus my monitors, and thirdly, listening on loads of devices, making notes. I write out a mix, upload it as a private track on soundcloud, and make notes in the timeline in my car, at work, in living room hifi, on the Bluetooth speaker in kitchen.. Go back, make tonal balance corrections, a/b'ing reference tracks using metric a/b (since magic ab was canned!) on day two, write it out, upload as private track on soundcloud again, check the mix again, last set of notes, and correct again. Folk say my mixes sound good. And those private uploads with critical listening, you often hear plain ole mistakes or mix tweaks.. The fixes usually take about half hour, which is fine. Sometimes, I do write the mix out, and import the stereo mix down into a new project, and just some saturation, EQ/dynamic eq/multiband compressor, and limiter, in my "mastering template" project, but more often than not, I just EQ a bit in the mix project..
This is exactly how I do it. Im not a professional, but my music sounds good to me :)
I should say, I use Sonarworks Headphone too. My headphones (KRK KNS 8400 and Koss Portapros) are both on the (extensive) supported list. Their plugin is last on my chain in my default Ableton set, disabled by default. I don't know how accurate the profiling exactly is, but it is super useful as another reference, because it's so easy to set up in the context of the DAW.
Your channel is absolutely amazing, and this video makes it even better. Thank you!
Great video for folks who aren't going to re-arrange their rooms and invest in lots of sound dampening. Get some monitors you like, adjust your EQing with some free or inexpensive software, and always check your work on headphones and other sound systems. Keep the comments flowing, Loopop encourages the feedback, and it's good for everyone.
Flattening the curve is definitely trending right now. :) One simple tip I have for everyone (and myself) pack away that damn resonating acoustic guitar :)
ha! you know I should have added that one, man that drove me nuts - but it's an easy one to detect, it lies loudly, never shuts up actually...
Great video. I'm experimenting and evaluating REW, Arc3 and Dirac currently. Sonarworx didn't work with my USB-measurement microphone unfortunately. I will definitely go for correction in the bass. Large improvement for my home studio.
their mic is dirt cheap worth the price or any other non usb unit
If you read this comment, would be great to see a review of the new ARC 12 room equaliser in hardware form. So far it looks like it works well, and for the money could be a godsend to those of us who haven't got the space or budget (or knowledge!) to properly optimise their music studio environment.
I use Sonarworks Headphone as I can’t do anything with my room. I have learnt to trust my cans now 👍😎
You’ve noticed a really nice topic, that everyone looks for flat response in monitors, but that’s the one which is easily treated by Sonarworks. What’s really hard to measure is ADSR reproduction, which from my perspective is way more important that frequency flattenes, but instead almost no one measures that.
Great video. I’m looking at this exact topic at the moment so it was great to see your thoughts on it. Thank you!!
Man, you do a great job in your videos! Great job.
Glad you like them!
I knew it! I've been suspecting it for years!
another important option. use reference tracks. listen by a/b to the track you recorded. You can have the crappiest room and speakers and if its similarly crappy sounding its EQ'd correctly. Someone has a lot of free by genera reference songs online or just choose songs that you listen to a lot in your room your brain will adjust and its free.
This is exactly what I needed to get started. Thanks
I have been dealing with this for a few months and worked with GIK Acoustics to better understand the problems in my room and create a plan of attack to resolve it. My first round with them I added 4 huge bass traps 2 on the front wall and 2 on the sides. I also added 2 bass traps over top of my listening position and immediately noticed a huge difference. I still have some low end frequencies to deal with, but as a start I'm very happy with where I am now. The size of my room is a major factor as to why the bass response is so bad and I can only try to reduce the reflections. Mixing has definitely been different now and I'm finding myself hearing things that I never heard before after the changes. I built my own before this exercise and I'm not an acoustician... and after taking measurements with REW I found that it was like they were not even on the walls. I don't recommend the DIY route unless you have a professional helping to design them.
Great help. My room is not treated. I bought sonarworks and I mix dance music. I use Yamaha HS8 and have the sub woofer. My Bass is 18 db too high. When I adjust I hate the lack of Bass. Lol. I purchased the headphones on your page. Can't wait to try them.
yamaha speakers are not the best eq wise and a big issue is if you have to eq them a lot then it kills the throw of the cone and the volume goes way down. mind you if you lack bass in the spekers they are good for listening to how it sounds in the averge car
@@williamshaneblyth played with sound for many days adjusting the DB game up and down and then realized that there is a way to finally get them set properly and I mastered a few mixes and played them on all types of different speakers and in the car and finally got it right but I must say it sure was a pain in the ass and took a very long time to get it right
great content again. thank you for great approach.
Hah! I’m down to book a mastering sesh in the yard! Just to meet the human operating the hands that have been creating all the brilliant videos on this channel
Nice vid, one of the reasons I ALWAYS record/play without monitors/speakers but with good headphones!! Not on PC but direct to a recorder....
Great video as usual. Your desk and ceiling would also be first reflection points! :) As you said, the low end is the biggest problem, to treat 100Hz problems you'd need like a 630mm deep absorber, multiple even (both sides)... haha.. measure your room and know where the low-end problems are and reference low end only on headphones and reference against songs you know well and get to know your setup is what I preach.. ;)
Thanks for the comment and tips! I can't imagine how big an absorber I'd need to fix the 52hz problem in my room...
@@loopop you're welcome. haha yes, 52Hz would probably be around 6.5meters.. you could set up absorbers at the quarter wavelength (of 52Hz) away from the wall, which can help quite a bit. (that's where the acoustic particle velocity is highest (more movement = more loss to friction)). realistically you'd need a tuned panel or resonator for that frequency.. (like Helmholtz) but as you said in the video. the proper acoustic treatment gets expensive REALLY quickly... and with a few tricks and already knowing what the problem frequencies are you're halfway there :)
and don't forget the position of the speaker. closer to the faced wall could solve some problems.
Hey. Are u happy with the Adams? Im between Adam A7X and Eve sc207. Some say the hi end on adams sound a bit harsh compare to eves.
I'm very happy with the Adams - they're not harsh at all, more like a breath of fresh air on the highs. But the 207's are great too, I never compared them side by side though
At Christmas I purchased Beyerdynamic dt990 pro headphones. They are very reasonable for £100. At least I have a consistent reference point even if it's not the golden ideal, they have improved my confidence in making eq and compression choices.
My "monitor" speakers are £140 pair of 40w powered pa speakers (QTX) I listen to TH-cam sets so know how they sound, just good enough for general listening. And if my music also sounds ok that's helpful because I don't like working for more than a few hours with headphones.
Thanks for the walkthrough. This'll give me something to tinker with....
totally unrelated but I'm interested in getting the Adam a8x, but curious if the tweeters produce any hiss, have you experienced any hiss?
no I have not, I'm quite pleased with them
@@loopop that’s nice to know, thanks!
as for REW, should you measure L and R and then use the average? or measure both at the same time (L+R output)? Thanks
The Green Lego blocks. 'are just an analogy' :+)
Which version (Ohms) of the Beyerdynamics headphones do you use? And do you use the Sonarworks correction with those?
I use the 250ohms and no, I've not tried the headphone option yet
I have a set of Adam speakers as well, they sound fantastic and are not flashy
Does the ARC3 add any latency when playing some VST live (besides sound interface latency)? Thanks
I'm sure it does but I don't remember how much... I suggest asking the company or looking at the specs. I've moved on to use IK's speakers which have ARC built in so I no longer use the software
@@loopop I too have the MTM with ARC calibration but I feel that the speakers just select a profile out of the available built-in ones, it's not that they're generating a full correction filter, are they?
@DavidIzquierdoAzzouz no they are tailored to your room (after you calibrate them of course!)
@@loopop that's great news, it means the calibrated MTM should theoretically sound as flat as when using the ARC software while non calibrated, right ?
@@DavidIzquierdoAzzouz it should I would hope! It sounds good to me and removes the boomy muddy modes so that's what's important ultimately
Love it. Great methodology always.
I personally don't have a professional set up but my couch should be a great bass trap :p
For sure!
Thanks for a brilliant video and some great advice! Only one question left: did the tweety birds show up on the garden frequency sweep? 😜
Thanks! And naturally, you can see the tweeter right there in the frame
great vid - still learning loads!
Pretty nice video, learned few new bits. I am a bit surprised you didn't mention or use dayton audio iMM-6 measument mic, it is extremely affordable with great specs for this task.
Thanks! I'm not familiar with it, but this is why we have a comment section :)
@@loopop Obviously it does not integrate so easily like options you mentioned :) But for 20$ it is very handy, I tend to measure venue setups or adjust home hi-fi using it as a helper. Keep up good work, really appreciate your videos
Love your videos man!
Will you be doing a Squarp Rample vid??
Thanks! Probably not any time soon as far as a dedicated video, I have way too many things in the pipeline :/
That left hand mouse skill
Although I'm not going to do any of this stuff😃 (maybe in a future when i have a more stable studio space) It is good to know specifics of why i need to trust the opinion of my headphones much more than my lying bastard monitors.
Well, no offense, it's your room that might be lying to you, likely not your monitors
I solved all this by going to headphones. No more clutter with speakers/cables. No more room issues. And things sound so much better on headphones anyway. And neighbors/family love it. Unless you're a mastering engineer, headphones may be the way to go. I haven't gone back to monitors.
Really, headphones are really bad for your ears.
@@Heathcliff_hensel Headphones are no worse than speakers. What matters is decibels, not how the sound gets to your ears.
You avoid the room with headphone, but you also lose a lot of spatial accuracy.
Great video by the way, didn't think I was going to watch the whole thing and now were here already. I have ADAMs as well, and have been using around +4 dB bass gain on them with the attenuators on the back, I was wondering if you have changed this at all on yours. Sounds logical to not do so, when you're doing REW, but in my room it definitely sounds rounder.
Thanks! Like I mention in the video, reducing the bass overall isn't a good strategy if you're looking for definition on individual notes when you have a bad bass mode situation (you saw the huge difference in the notes a semitone apart on the low end) - but sure, if you're looking for general bass reduction/gain then it will do the trick. Also, your room may not have the problems mine has - these bass modes really depend on the size and shape of the room.
Yes, makes sense! Oh I think my room might be worse even. Thanks for responding :)
Which one is better? a8x with sonarworks or iloud precision mtm with arc?
hardware correction is always better IMHO because you don't have to deal with plugins and software. arc came out slightly better on the software side in this video
My studio is very honest about her acoustic quality. She's a muddy brick wall limiter with illegal underground techno basement acoustics. That's why I use headphones.
Hello there Mr. Loopop,
Then should I rely best on monitoring headphones then?
I believe. so, yes. If your room isn't properly treated - that's what I do. I'll jam out without them any time - I love the Adams and I even love my room modes sometimes... but when it's time to record and mix, headphones are how I make sure what I make is what others are likely to hear
@@loopop Thank you very much for your answer and your very useful videos Mr. Loopop. Greetings from Chile.
7:57 I thought for REW you need a 90 degree calibration file which the Sonarworks one is not?
I honestly didn't dig into REW enough to advise how to use it to actually address room issues, but rather just to show the problems. Indeed I recommend the more simpler Sonarworks or ARC
Can you make a analog mastering chain
Hey Ziv, how are you doing? You sound a bit tired, hope it's nothing serious :/
What a coincidence - I have just ordered a Sonarworks bundle, right before watching your video 😅 Hope it will put my hearing paranoia to rest!
Thanks for the concern - all’s well - indeed I recorded this one late at night because I felt quite alert... apparently my body lies to me as well!
Thank you.
Thank you!
great vid, perfect timing as i’m thinking about this stuff for my room right now. can you add a link for that reference mic?
Thanks! I couldn't find it on amazon and I now see it's out of stock on Sonarwork's site unfortunately - there are a few others on amazon but I've not tested them. It comes with their bundle too, and there's a link to thank if you're interested
have you tried Abbey Road Studio 3 from Waves? Am really impressed. Would be nice to get your perspective.
Not yet, but noted!
Don't think this works on Windows. DACs run on ASIO drivers hence no system DSP support (Sonarworks runs on the Windows driver if I recall).
I know so much more now, but I’ much more confused and sad about my room. Ignorance is a bless sometimes.
I LOVE YOU
🙌🏻🙏🏻
Flatten the curve sounded like cuomo last year lol great info!!!
20:15 thank you.
I use Sonarworks, but I don't put it in my DAW - I don't see that it has a valid function there. I use systemwide where it does nothing but correct the output to the speakers.
Indeed if latency isn't that important that's a more convenient solution
@@loopop When is latency important during a mix? I can see it if you are mixing for video, but even then you time-align visually.
@@donepearce it’s not. Personally I and I think many others record performances (my videos/jams) much more than I mix after a performance, making real time mixing decisions as I go. That’s why I moved to speakers with correction
@@loopop Sound. What sort of latency / buffer size does your sound card demand?
@@donepearce what do you mean demand? The correction is in my speakers it’s effectively immediate
Thanks mate, very handy.
If you're like me, you bought those HS8s anyways no matter how bad your room is...
Early reflections. If you can hang a mirror on your wall and see a speaker in it, then the mirror position is a good place treat. Also not the ceiling. Most people forget about the ceiling.
You can have quite flat headphones for 100$: Audio-Technica ATH-M40X
or even better for mixing: superlux HD-681 Evo at Thomann 30€ (replaced AKGs here...)
The ATH-M40X are not that flat, they have a pretty serious 15 dB dip at around 4,000 Hz. For about the same price, my preference for the flattest, most revealing headphones are the classic Sony MDR-7506.
Please also check out Math Audio Room EQ , i use it over sonarworks & rew , its faster & easier to use
WoW
🔥👁🔥
So this explains why my damn wall shakes and makes horrible noise when I play certain notes
Yes, a little EQ can go a long way. By the way, if it's objects rattling (as opposed to an overall "pressure"/vibration) it might make sense to use tape or move them or something
Welcome to the world outside your iphone....welcome to reality - where physics work....
Any tips for implementing this DAW-less in hardware?
yes - Room EQ wizard supports exporting to a bunch of devices (the top right of the screen when I generate the EQ filters). Also some speakers have built in room correction. I linked to the IK Multimedia ones in the description, if you want to go really high end some Genelecs have correction DSP
There is another issue...you have to trust the microphone isn’t lying to you.
True, that's why measurement mics come with calibration files, each measured individually. Of course, we're assuming the mic manufacturer isn't lying...
i wish i had seen this video before i just bought 300$ monitors.
Your point is correct, but the measurement with the iPhone microphone, especially when the phone is sitting on the same surface as your speakers is very inaccurate. You could at least hold the iPhone where your head is, but the frequency response of the mic on the iPhone is still pretty ugly.
Sound Check as I mention in the video, my point was not that people should use the iPhone as a measuring tool, but rather as a simple test to illustrate issues. That said, as you may have seen during my test, there’s actually pretty good correlation between the iPhone’s display and the measurement mic as shown in the daw graphics
@@loopop Yeah I checked your test on my Iphone after turning on my Sonarworks cal profile. My Sonarworks systemwide profile is not working as advertised! I will recalibrate but I suggest everyone check to make sure your cal files are actually doing what it's suppose to do.
That's not what I meant when I said sweep the yard
I came for the LEGO
I made the whole video just so I could play with them
use headphones, got it....
Yeah for hours & hours fucking sucks
Not gonna use it. Spend time making music instead of trying to understand all that and believe in it working. That mic will never be my two ears. I bought a mic and tried it before, it s too complicated. Should ve made music instead.
This just means you're a musician, not a technician.
klinkske exactly, you dont need acoustic treatment to write a great song.
@@Heathcliff_hensel but having it makes mixing decisions a lot easier and you end up taking less time to do the same task.
1 dislike from the person that built ugly bass-traps.
Migraine Gainn bass traps make a much bigger difference than using any correction software, which I also use. Bass traps and acoustic panels can drastically reduce problems at the source, which makes the software’s job much easier. This means that the final corrected sound is smoother and more natural, without loads of phasiness.
The best thing I ever did in my studio was adding bass traps. The second best was acoustic panels. The third best was Sonarworks 4. I have used Arc 2 before and am now going to give Arc 3 a try because they have introduced a fantastic new feature. The ability to limit the range of the correction. So you can now allow everything from 200hz upwards through uncorrected.
Bass is by far the worst offender, so having the room correction only on the bass is a game changing feature.
the time it took to make this video was sponsored by the wuhan institute of virology
busted
Don't throw out your cardboard egg boxes
another sonarwork commercial.
Be carefull people.
Besides being a false statement, you clearly didn't watch the video. I show Room EQ Wizard (free) as an alternative, and ARC 3 comes out slightly better than Sonarworks. hmm I wonder if you'll apologize
Not a very elaborate tutorial. You missed the part with resonances, the reverb. The room has both the frequency and time domain, if you attempt to fix the time domain using EQ you sre going to have a worse time than not doing anything about it at all. Research it everyone before trying this. Also if you move around a lot, what I mean is even 15cm away from the listening spot, you are also asking for trouble (that is if you're manipulating the higher end of the spectrum which has a very short wavelength). Think of EQ as the icing on the cake, otherwise you're going to probably make it worse than it already is.
Not only that I didn't miss the part about resonances and reverb - I show and measure it both indoors and out. I also mention that EQ is not advisable for frequencies above 1000hz, and take the time to show how moving the measurement spot (or your head) just an inch left or right makes a big difference on the higher end of the spectrum. Furthermore, I talk about positioning in the room and treatment before I talk about EQ. While EQ is icing on the cake, most people can't afford proper treatment, and a few notches here and there can go a long way, especially on the low end. I'm always happy to accept criticism and comments, and I certainly don't know everything nor pretend to make all encompassing videos, but typically it's better if you watch the video first.
@@loopop You're right, i haven't watched the whole video and was looking for the part where you talked about the things I found misisng but I couldn't find them. It's just that it's maybe not as exclaimed as it should be, I would talk about the problems first before talking about what CAN be done but that's just my opinion, if you say you did mention it then fine that's good then. Also in my experience Sonarworks is snakeoil, it does't correct any nulls and peaks properly, just "balances" the frequency response very roughly in my opinion. What it says is the result is far from reality and you can see that after using the microphone to measure the response post correction. EqualizerAPO and manual correction of everything is the way to go, of course if you know what you're doing, and it will take like probably a couple of hours to do so, it's not as accessible nor as convenient.