MORE POWER with cooling! | improving the Victron DC-DC Charger
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Bold claim I improve my Real world efficiency and output of my Victron DC to DC charges by 25% with active cooling fans.
If you wish to purchase an Orion B2B here is an affiliate link for my channel
Orion 30A non-isolated:
www.bspksolar....
Orion 30 AIsolated:
www.bspksolar....
Other Victron items
www.bspksolar....
“Real world” is the important part. These units are notorious for overheating. The units thermal throttle and decrease their 30 amp charge output when they overheat. Hotter they get a lower output. I often see my unit down to 25A in a vented electrical cupboard, even in my testing you see a completely open unit start to thermal throttle.
However this does work in the opposite direction cooler the unit higher the output including higher than the listed 30A output.
The 30A / 360w rating which Victron list is actually at 40° operating temperature. The manual also lists a 430w output at 25°.
And that is what the principal of this video is on.
So I decided to make a active cooling
In the video I only achieve a output increase of around 10-15% due to my testes only being 30 minutes in Length as thermal throttling was only down to 28amp at 30mins , my real world observations over the last year or so have shown for my set up being 25amp output at around an hour mark. 25amp uncooled vs a 32.5amp output in 25%  Increase
With my current system Cooling solution I achieve a 32.5 amp output after multiple hours on my units
- Affiliate Links below -
12v 120mm Blower fan
eBay UK = ebay.us/ZRt9Ae or ebay.us/OOPDJT
ebay USA = ebay.us/8FB505
Amazon UK = amzn.to/3rVAJeJ
Victron B2B 12 12 30A
non-isolated eBay UK = ebay.us/XT54jS
isolated eBay UK = ebay.us/9V8191
Both eBay USA = ebay.us/7fFBVm
non-isolated Amazon = UK amzn.to/3gMlZsa
isolated Amazon UK = amzn.to/3BodJIa
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My victron dc dc is skipping bulk phase I found forums alone many others having the same issue. This didn’t happen when I first got it. Ran it for only a few trips then started doing it. Things useless now. Anyone figure out then solution? I’m thinking just go with a different brand all together.
That is a odd symptoms. Normally charges leaving bulk too early is a charge profile setting issue, battery already full or a high amp charge current on a smaller battery which causes to increase quicker.
I think the cooling fan and ducting is a great idea. Great in depth testing.😄
Thank you. I enjoyed the testing and being able to log data to see the real world improvements
@@MispronouncedAdventures I would absolutely buy that kit!
Great video. The other elephant in the room is that electronics generally have a massive drop in reliability when run hot. The cooler unit will almost certainly outlast the uncooled unit by a multiple.
Definitely there’s pretty much no negative points on cooling electronics, both from performance and relative point of view
Really nice video ! Do you think you could share the 3D file for the air duct? I'm myself installing a victron B2B in my van and I'm concerned about heating issues .. Thank you ! Or I could be interested in buying a kit but I needed it like 2 weeks ago ^^
How did you manage wiring of the fan and the triggering of them ?
Thank you !
Flawed test.
You are not comparing cooled to un-cooled, you are comparing cooled to choked.
Your inoperative system was actually inhibiting natural convection and inhibiting natural cooling.
You should have removed the fan and duct to remove the cooling system completely and eliminate the obstructions.
Ducting is only on in final tests. The area below only had the fan sitting it on which does a part cause a restriction is did not blocking off air movement, plenty of free space , probably a lot less blocked off than most of wiring coming down and the tops blocked off by mounting them too high installs.
Regardless, the “un-cooled” is the least interesting of the results and is mainly there as I have two units and helps visually illustrate the point with thermal . As that’s the variable everyone has in there own van and varies the most due to individual mounting. That’s were there output can drop as low as 18A from overheating ( my average was 26A when I had a single unit mounted ) . That being said i still know the output and have thermal footage on when I had a single unit mounted normally and un-cooled.
The overall point of the video wasn’t too say my cooling method was best ( or my un-cooled ) but it demonstrate the effects on unit output because of the temperature which can lead to output above the listed 30A output. The output numbers themselves are not important, the fact that we’re different and substantially different was. The more realistic test would’ve been to do the test with the cabinet door closed and the electrics in a cupboard so the air mass heats as the test goes on. Would be more comparable to most installations.
I’m only here for the comment section 🍿
So can we buy this kit yet, I have 2 MPPT 250/100's and could use a set of those ducts.
The 250/100 are far physically larger units. But the same cooling fans would be reasonably effective without the ducting
I'm just about to start my van build and have watched loads of videos ect. But have never seen anyone mount their mppt / DCtodc unit spaced off the wall say 1/2 inch with spacers ? To let more air around the back or do the fins have to be close the the wall to work ??
I do you think mounting it a little bit further off the backboard if you’re just using the fins / passive cooling will help. I don’t think on the DCDC and how much they heat up during operation but it will help that much.
Definitely better than nothing
Why don't just install fans in the door right behind the chargers? The output would be better.
This video is more about the effects of cooling opposed overall than how I cool them.
Reason I didn’t go for that option, however, I didn’t wanna have to cut holes in the door.
Dude what an awesome idea, I would definitely do that on my camper, I have the isolated dc/dc 30A, I found the vent on Amazon, now I need the black air spread. Can I have the file so I could print it? I'll pay for it ofcourse. Thanks for sharing all these informations to the world ❤
have you though about mounting to the body of the van as you go to very cold places and use a thurmal compound might make the even better
I would like to buy 3 kits for my 5th wheel trailer?
Thanks, David
Brilliant video and great idea, I also have a small brushless fan under my dc2dc controlled by the auxbeam 8 gang RGB panel,after moving it because of the heat from under living quarters bench seat into the rear, as you rightly have proven they get proper hot, really pleased with the results and also adding longevity to the dc2dc. Definitely think there is a commercial opportunity for a cooling kit. 👍
I would like to by the fan duct kit. Have you put together a kit and a price? I'm in the US.
I would like to buy one of the 3D printed concentrator ducting 'thingy' or get the files so I could print it myself. Are either of those things possible? I'll attempt to make one myself, if not, but wanted to ask and save some stress! :) Thanks for sharing!
Thanks a bunch for straightening me out on isolated versus non isolated.
No problem at all
For the price of the victron stuff there should be active cooling included in the unit from the factory. It’s ridiculous to think the product will begin throttling performance at 40degrees centigrade. If you start producing kits they’ll have to be victron blue. RAL5012 is the colour code you need for the 3d printer spool. 😉
Completely agree and most of the competitors seem to have active cooling!
You are right it would have to be blue!
If you think the Orion is ridiculous....look at the thermal derates for their inverters. Phoenix Compact 12V 2000va......at 25C it is making 1600W. At 40C it drops to 1400W 65C 1000w.
My guess is the throttling is their way of preserving device for long-term use or overcautious safety measures
@@MispronouncedAdventures I will admit Victron is rather transparent with their specs - maybe that is an industry standard derate?
Nice video Alex and I have a tip for you, it's more efficient to draw the heat out than it is to blow air in.
Thank you. I wasn’t aware of this concept so I’ve just done a bit of research and looking at. It seems was generally true drawing air across it was more efficient in high-density Fin design heatsinks whilst blowing out across was more effective during low-density Fin design heatsinks. I didn’t know about any of that for this test, I think drawing air across with this model of fan wouldn’t be practical given the fan design but it would be interesting to see on the version with the normal PC fan which was more effective in the case of the Orion
In the PC world, people have tested both ways, drawing air and blowing air over a heatsink and there is very minimal temp change between the two
When I moved mine into a location with much less airflow I wondered if it would be a problem. I can confirm, I noticed a massive loss in output. Over 50 watts. It will be getting moved very soon.
Location is definitely very important with these units. I seen some units out putting less than 20A due to thermal throttling in the wrong locations.
Thanks for sharing.
It really worries me the high temp the dc 2 dc gets.
I wonder if i can connect the 12v fan on the output of the DC2DC so it turns on when charging.
Have you tried that ?
Attaching it to the output wouldn’t work, it’s would always been on, as the leisure system,
battery would power it. Which is why I added mine to a ignition live.
@@MispronouncedAdventures Just found out. Output is to the house Batts so it will be always on. Thanks for the tip and for the beautiful informative video.
Brilliant, Alex...!! Could I get a cooling kit? I'm about to install the Orion into my van.....Thanks
I didn't read all the comments so I don't know if anyone has suggested this.
Turn the Orian around so the cooling fins aren't against the door and are facing into the cabinet. Just build a mounting bracket. You'll get lots of air flow around the cooling fins.
If you wanted, you could mount a fan on the cooling fins like a desktop CPU.
WeBoost are designed to have the cooling fins facing outward.
So simple, yet once, you know it, so obvious! BRILLANT IDEA! Of course, that has to be the way. Very smart suggestion.
Except in our conceits we want to show off our sexy blue Victron boxes to all fellow enthusiasts. If we just went with thermal efficiency then, exactly, that should be the default passive placement for optimal output.
And I don't mean any of this sarcastically. Genuinely this should be the way the units are placed as nearly all are hidden away from the ambient air/air-flow. But again once you say it, seems so obvious. I would say contact Victron but they love us all admiring their gold standard blue boxes to not want to disfigure that with a outward facing heatsinks, even if blue! As would lose invaluable brand and advertsing space. Which is probs why they point out in two lines, buried in the manual, the thermal in/efficiencies BUT DO NOT DO ANYTHING PRO-ACTIVE ABOUT IT. As the new at time of writing DC-DC 50 looks indentical.
Now, there is a story of corporate responsibility....
So is the cooling ducting ever made it into production? I see lots of people asking for it but no reply's ever posted back. Is it available to buy @Mispronounced Adventures
I personally didn’t, but a friend of mine on instagram called “veeventures” sells a variation of them
Hi, I just discovered your channel. Thank you for all the time and effort you put into producing content. I have been planning on putting some Fans in for my DC-DC, and this has inspired me to pull my finger out and get it done. However, I'm not sure how to control the fans to come on and off; I currently have it set up to sense engine switch on, so not sure how to trigger the fans. Do you have a wiring diagram or advice on the physical set up ?
Glad you have found the channel and this video helpful.
I’ve had my fans turn on with an “ignition live”, I did think about a temperature relay but didn’t see much point. If the Orion’s are on might as well have fans on
Alex, liquid cooling can transfer more heat than air. Any way that Victron heatsonk could be removed and a liquid cooler with a small water pump installed (think water cooled CPU's) ?
If not, how about finding metal tubes (like brake lines or industrial metal tubing that you could wedge in between the on board Victron heatsink fins and run water through them and then through a heat exchanger in the cabinet?
Aye. Water cooling would be way more effective, i’ve played with it before in other Applications. But for this I wanted to make a system which was not modifying the original unit and avoiding warranty.
where do you wire the fans into......
While that not part of this video as it’s more showing the effects of cooling.
The duel B2B install video covers the where the fans are wired into. But more or less. Ignition live. So the fans are wired into the input side. So there is no lose on the output side powering the fans
Great vid. And a great electrical setup. Very envious.
Great idea with the ducting, has there been any information on a possible sale of the ducting or the release of the stl file.
Glad you enjoyed it.
There are a few people who now sell variations of the ducting idea. Depends which country you are in.
Can i buy the 3d printed part of you ?
Super helpful. I bought the fan for my B2B
Thank you very much, hope you get a better output
Aren’t you pulling way to much from the alternator? Especially when idling you will find that the alternator gets very hot! You can’t use your van as a generator… but I suspect you already know that !
That would depend on the alternator, mine is 220A this pulling a total of 90A ( 2 B2B’s + engine idle power use ) which is fine looking at the alternator charts and documentation from the ford documents of RPM vs Alternator output = temperature.
I also have a thermal camera so I have tested the Alternator temperature at the end of these 30 minutes tests when I have the van idling . It’s was 70c at max which is miles within safe amounts.
you couldn’t do this with something like a 110A alternator which a popular is some older models of vans
How about hooking up a blower fan that sucks air through the unit instead of pushing air through. And the blower will direct air outside of the van at the same time.
I think looking back at the research, I think I remember find out about sucking air across versus blowing air across head sink. I think I found there was merit and increased cooling efficiency on low fin number, large fin heatsinks to blow air past them, whilst on heatsinks , with many smaller fins sucking can be more efficient.
The cupboard itself has an additional fan which helps pull the warm air out of the whole electrics cabinet
Maybe I missed it, did you just wire the fans so that Key On Power (from the truck) was turning on the Fans?
Yes, the fan are on an ignition live.
Not directly, the ignition live is just a voltage signal to close relay because the ignition live isn’t meant for directly powering things.
More or less if the ignition is on, that’s because I’m going to be driving the van and if I’m driving the van the DCDC charges will be on so the fans should be. I decided not to use a temperature relay as I thought generally that’s a waste of time given that the DCDC charges always overheat. It might as well might as well always have the fan on when they’re running
You put a lot of work into that. Nice job.
Thank you for Saying so
Are the fans still making a difference with the door shut? Surely there's nowhere for all that hot air to escape? 🤔
The entire cabinet has intake and exhaust port with its own fan, extracting heat from the cabinet
Nice R&D video.
I think there's a good chance this will be the standard of installing the Victron DC-DC charger in a few years.
Thank you yes the video is definitely a proof of concept style video.
But it does seem there is certainly a interest in active cooling system which will overall improve the health and performance of the units
Just found your channel, excellent video. Definitely believe the 3d printed ducting kit would be excellent. Let me know when available.
Thank you very much for finding my channel and glad you enjoyed the video. If we do get further with the ducting Kit, I will make a channel announcement for people.
Thanks for taking the time outlining the contents of your video in the description. I wish more people would do that!
Thank you I felt for this video as I was doing tests and data it was helpful to have that sort of list down below as well.
I would buy one for sure. I'm just now starting to add a second battery to a suburban build.
Thanks for the informative video.
What’s the 🫖 🍵 🐸 🍿?
Thought you might pop in to see the madness
@@UrbanVanlife love a good read
🥤 🍿
Tried scrolling through Comments, didn’t see and hope that I’m not repeating; but, are the cooling fans simply On/Off, or thermostatically controlled ?
If your Alt is putting out, say 40A, does having Two units taking that (divided) Alt output and getting more Amps in to the batteries ? Sorry, probably remedial, I just am not clear … if Alt is putting out 40A, isn’t the max that will get To the Bank 40A ?
Great vid. Subscribed
On or off. In my cases trigged by a vans ignition being on ( if the ignition is on then the engine is running and chargers can be on ). Whilst it would be easily achievable to use a temperature controlled relay to turn the fans on and off. Generally I saw it as unnecessary because the units are going to overheat regardless. might as well just have the fans on the entire time the units are on.
It’s not as simple as just what the alternator is doing as the starter battery in also in the system. Normal the used need about 32A on the into size to output 30A ( efficiency looses ) . Having two used would be 64A in and 60A ( higher output, higher input ). Having a high out alternator is important as if the draw of the units was higher than what the alternator was producing then energy will also be taken from starter battery. And you don’t want to discharge the starter.
Hope that helps.
Great video I was thinking of doing something similar. Years ago I was using a CB radio type power supply to power a electric cool box and the cooling fins got very hot, so I installed a couple 50mm pc fans to it blowing up the fins. This worked extremely well and if anything the fins stayed cold
Oh definitely any type of cooling on any heat sink will improves its efficiency.
Are you using the vehicle alternator for the DC-to-DC charger? If so, is the alternator able to handle two 30A units? Thank you!
Yes, which is a pretty standard use of a DC to DC charger. Personally my alternator can handle it as it’s a 220A alternator by default. But some of my friends vehicles only come with a 110A alternator which would not be able to support two of the Orions
I have seen these mounted in all sorts of location and say about the Heat issue, do you know if they can be mounted outside, as in under a van within one of the deep voids where it would already be generally be protected and could partially be sealed off from any minimal splashes? Just thought I’d ask the sort of question that others might not have thought of, Would be interested in your thoughts?
Definitely most issues I see with these units are heat related because people have put them in the back of cupboards right next to the top so no ventilation. As for putting it somewhere outside, I guess there is a potential option if it’s sheltered, but my main worry would be the terminals at the bottom are very close together and have no type of water ceiling or/prevention.
Hi Alex, I've been trying to contact Victron with this question - but they appear to have no technical support! The question is; Could I do a similar set up to yours i.e. 2 Victron Orions 12 / 12 / 30s with cooling, in my Fiat Ducato that has a 150 amp alternator. Thanks for your time and great videos. Graham
Victron doesn’t do support themselves. It’s usually their distributors and installers who are there for support.
I would say 150amp too small for two Orions unfortunately. Whilst there doesn’t seem to be any concrete numbers out there, my research, i came across that a good rule of thumb is 60 amp additional auxiliary load should be on the minimum of 180amp alternator.
Thank. I think I will do my van in 2 stages - initial set up, followed by improvements ie 1 Orion then stage 2 new alternator & additional Orion. Thanks for your advice.
Where do you tap in to get 12 volts to the fans?
Different models of van you would do it in different ways. I use a signal from an ignition live, I didn’t want to take it from the output side / leisure side as I didn’t want to take away from the charge potential
Hello, is there a way to limit the current? if I have a Li Ion battery to charge, that can take 200+ Amps, how can I limit the output current of the Orion charger in order not to blow the fuse or overcharge the alternator, charger, cables, etc?
Victron Orion 30 amp charges. Have a limited output current. You can’t change it it’s always 30 amp ( unless thermally throttling back )
@@MispronouncedAdventures thanks!
actual testing with data is very cool or hot depending on your frame of reference. Simplified, data is useful! :) Thanks for posting this.
Thank you. Well I’m sure more scientific tests could be done and better data collection and plotting. I think it’s overall is a great way to both have test data and visualise differences
Did your Freind ever decide on selling these 3d printed parts?
I was going to ask the same thing because I would like to order the active cooking vent kit
Good information on how much cooling affects the systems' performance.
I just did the same with my RedArc system (30 amp a/w 40 amp chargers) Before doing it - I did not know it was a thing.
Since my cooling fins are on the top of my chargers I have a multipurpose portable fan that I can use when I have both chargers engaged - which will not be necessary that often - but will be REAL nice to have when circumstances deem it necessary !!!
So are you going to open the door when you are charging with the 2 chargers to increase air flow?
This is just what I want! Mine gets so hot I can’t touch it and it drops to 19-23amps.
Do you sell the kits? Or even the files so I can 3d print it myself?
Hey! Not sure if you said this in a comment, but is the file to the ducting available anywhere? I’d like to print my own if possible!!
Super nice well done, that’s what I always liked at your Chanel.Would like to get tow one for the Orion the other one for the mppt.Please let us know when your friend will make some bucks.Thanks…
Thank you very much. I’m glad to see there’s a lot of interest it’s something we will work towards making into a kit, it might take some time however.
As for a MPPT version. Well the ducting Kit originally will be based for the Orion or units of the same sized heat sink . any form of direct airflow will definitely help the mppt
With the extra watts mount them in a fridge 😁🤣
The main purpose of this video was to demonstrate the effects of cooling opposed to the cooling method as such. But I definitely did think about the idea of what other more extreme routes could you do to keep them cooler.
@@MispronouncedAdventures not such a bad idea mount them in a 12 v cool box I'm currently looking at the renogy 40 amp dc dc combined with mppt kill two birds one stone , tuff one as victron is top of the range some good reviews on the renogy best of luck
Iv just bought the renogy 50 amp dual input I'm going to put isolator switches from solar plus alternator I'm lead to believe the alternator will not produce the full 50 amps if you have solar while driving , might be a good idea to only switch solar on while stationary as you say it was a tuff choice with victron being so popular happy camping 👍 ps I think I have enough room to mount it in the cab so at least it can have some air circulation
Superb, Alex. I work with repairing computers for my day job so I appreciate the positive effects of decent cooling on electrical components. It's not surprising how much more efficient stuff runs at given a meaty heatsink and active cooling but it IS surprising how infrequent manufacturers supply adequate cooling for their equipment. You're really getting your money's worth from that Flir camera!
P.S. Must say a massive thank you on behalf of my daughter and her boyfriend - you did a spot of troubleshooting on their Renogy Dc to DC at Camp Quirky last weekend. They can't stop singing your praises - and rightly so. You're a top guy. Peter
Definitely. It had a larger effect than I thought. Definitely by default in adequate cooling for this unit even running in optimal mounting conditions. But it is nice that Victron made the temperature related to the output for above 30 as well. Oh yes getting a lot of use from the flir camera. It’s just a great little tool for visualising lots of things.
Absolutely my pleasure helping them they’re both lovely. Hopefully we will all meet again at another event this year.
Just stumbled across your channel so thanks ! Always like to see hardware working at its underlying capability and squeezing 33% more output can only be a good thing. I am starting to plan my own van conversion and was thinking about running a 48v leisure system with cheap buck converters dropping down at each 12v load. All that thick wiring needed for 12V looks very tidy but less convenient. When I worked in industry, 50v was considered the threshold between safe and unsafe voltage so 48v still OK.
Thank you I think it’s a great way to demonstrate how important cooling is. And you’re very much correct working with 24 or 48 V systems, wiring is a lot more convenient and less expensive!
Excellent 👍👍👍🏴🇬🇧🇨🇦🦢
Thank you
Hi Alex
Great video👍.
Defo interested in the active cooling kit if available
Cheers. The type of fans are use can be found in the video description Amazon store link.
@@MispronouncedAdventures Cheers, already winging their way to my abode.
Great information real world videos Alex 👍.
What about the 100/20 mppt charge controller i would like to purchase 6
The Victron Mppt controllers have a fixed output. Not a variable one like the Orions
@@MispronouncedAdventures the heatsink vent you have... is there one for the charge controllers. Thanks!
What are you charging Lead acid ,Agm ,Lithium ?
nice result with cooling added,
ad a little temp sensor/rpm pc fan controller to it and the noice will act on heat dissorpation
(did the same on my caravan absorbtion cooler years ago ,got huge cooling inprovement on that too )
(I use a 18 liter dometic Cdf18 Compressor cooler behind the subaru Forester driverseat now no absorbtion cooler can beat that ,its freezing cold ..........)
Great install video. I just purchased dual units. Planning my install. Where did you get the fans.
Glad you worked well for you. If you find my video about getting more power out of the Orions there is a link too the fans in the description
Since you are concerned about cooling air flow, is there a reason that you didn't simply put spacers in behind the units to allow more convective air flow? I put in 1/4" spacers behind my Orion chargers to allow more air flow and that seems to help. Not against fans of course, but maybe a simpler approach would work almost as well.
Particularly in this case, as I wanted to concentrate all of the airflow from the fans into the fin
So I have one of those dc to dc chargers I dont see some of the setting on the app that yours does at 5:40 or is that another type of hardware you are monitoring
5:40 im swapping to the Victron BMW-712 battery monitor in that Victron connect app, to check the current / amp. As unfortunately you don’t get a amp reading on the Orion in the app
@@MispronouncedAdventures I want to be able to get the amount of battery left and so on
@@MispronouncedAdventures thank you btw
You’ll need a Victron smart shunt or Victron BMV-712 battery monitor.
Both do the same thing only the 712 comes with a small physical display. Both have the app
Great video, Question: as all the testing was done with the cabinet open any thoughts or tests on how efficient the cooling is when the system is in a closed cabinet space (I am assuming you have the cabinet closed when driving/charging) thanks
Its good point and a correct assumption. The door open / closed effect was not part of the testing. I was demonstrating the effect of cooling on the unit opposed to showing the best way to cool them.
But the is a decrease in cooling effectiveness when the door is closed, however there is a additional extractor fan base inside the cabinet which removes hot when the doors please. Otherwise you would just be moving around hot air inside the cabinet
I wonder if attaching it to a sheet of metal would help spread the heat out. Also maybe the 12-24v operates cooler as 24v tends to do, must look into it
There is already a metal sheet behind each unit. I think it would pretty help a little.
I’ve never tested a 12v to 24v unit but I would guess it should run a little bit cooler
I would definitely buy a kit for the right price. After all said and done, if you were to design a system again today, would you choose Victron again?
Yeah definitely would go with 100% Victron again
Thanks for your through work - super clean install. Love those push connectors with screw mounts....super clean way to deal with small gauge wiring. Who makes those?
Thank you. The connections are call Wago connectors. The mounts are separate and they came with a kit, but I’m struggling to find them separately at the moment.
Great work. I’d definitely pay if the price was right. Perhaps $40 US for a single cooling kit.
Thank you and that the sort of price area we were thinking
Great video,yes Cooling fans would be awesome il would be intrested if the had a temperature sensor even better, if u can make some for there inverter chargers ,alot of people would buy
I had looked into a temperature sensor and whilst it would’ve been reasonably easy to do I have multiple spare temperature relays around I thought it was a potentially unnecessary. As the units will overheat every time they are on. And they’re only gonna be on when the ignition is on, so using an ignition live to trigger the fans seem like just as good idea. Whilst a temperature relay could be useful in an environment where a ignition live is not accessible all that you wanted the fans to turn off after they had finished bulking
Be interesting to know what temp the alternator is up to, any problems since install?
Alternator temperature is going to depend on a lot of variables so will be a different results for different vans and conditiona.
With mine be 220A alternator it is running far under it max capacity, while smaller Alternators would run closer to there max and there for hotter.
Since Alternators are air cooled by there own spinning. Driving vs idle rpm speeds would make a big difference.
That being said on the double charger install video and I think in one and use a thermal camera to check the alternator temperatures in the worst possible circumstances, which is maximum charger power whilst idling for 30 minutes as a test, so minimal cooling. Alternator temperature was 70c which is a long way underneath anything problematic.
So yes, all been fine since install
These companies know how important cooling is. If they included cooling they would sell far less replacements.
Wondering if you made the commercial version of the ducting?
Interesting stuff. NOCTUA fans could be a good option, 120mm/140mm or even 200mm as an all round cupboard fan.
Noctua fans are pretty amazing. I use a few of them in the build. I have a 120mm Noctua fan which takes the air out of the cupboard
I think you would get sales.. This blue stuff is so common, But there are other B2B that may improve just the same !
Great video thanks for posting.
I am looking to add a single 30Amp B2B to my Peugeot van. I seem to remember that CamperVibe put their B2B with the vehicle battery which is under the passenger's feet. If there was room and it was practical I would like the kit.
I think being compact is essential, so rear mounted probably better. I think it's important to ventilate the chamber the B2B is mounted in - like you've done.
Yes I believe camper vibes sterling unit already has a built-in fan. but I believe it’s with many of the units more compact the unit usually hotter they get.
The kit we will be looking at making a compact version as well
I believe it is a viable idea. Please post notification if you decide to go ahead. I could use such a kit an installation of the 24-24-17 at present.
Great info do you have a wiring diagram for fan control please
I don’t, but it a standard relay set up with the relay trigger being and ignition Live
@@MispronouncedAdventures ok thanks, may for a current sensing relay as it a removable canopy setup and adding a wire and plug is a pain
cheers David
This is great. Many thanks. I am in the process of converting my van and this has highlighted the importance of cooling on electrical performance - something that before I was aware of only vaguely. Did you upgrade your alternator to handle the extra amps/extra heat load when idling? If so, would be interested in seeing a video about that.
Hello, alternator wise my van came with a pretty large 220A alternator which is easily sufficient for this task. I have a second video about install the duel B2B charger and showing thermal imaging of the alternator and it’s temperatures.
Brilliant video, what about creating a vent above the DC2DC unit to blow the dispersed heat into the cabin?
it’s difficult to see in this video there’s actually a custom 3-D printed ducting in the electrical cabinet which pulls out of the air out of the cabinet when the door is closed
can you share the file for the ducting?
I am with the rest of the recent commenters, I would buy your vent defuser, I would need 4 in total. Please let us know.
Hello I just came across your channel while searching for Victron products for a future project.
At the begining i like to thank you for this and other videos which you presented on your channel, it will take me some time to go through many of them this weekend :)
I was watching few minutes ago your previous Video about mounting the 2 Orion smart in your system.
After two months of use are you happy about the results of this twin?
Does it make much difference charging the system very fast as you described and as the product description states? I was planning to mount 1 Orion but I am tending most likely for 2 pieces.
Do you recommend this sitting further or you will make some other adjustments to It in the future other than the ventilation which sound logical once hearing you?
I wish you a safe Journey and hope we will meet once on the street.
Regards from Austria
Thank you for watching my video and I hope you find them helpful.
I love having 2 units, Game changer for the winter arctic trip and in the summer I normal only one turned on.
Any ventilation you can add the better. Be that active cooling with fan or just ventilation holes in the cupboard you mount them
@@MispronouncedAdventures I wish you all the best for your trip,
Excellent video as always Alex, however… you’ll be pleased to know that increasing 300w to 400w is actually an increase of over 33%. See, I knew you’d be happy hehe
Hey Alex, great video, the kit sounds like a great idea.
Thank you very much
Where can I purchase the 3D printer file for the fan air distribution shroud?
I’d love to order some 3d printed ducts from you if possible.
There’s been a lot of interest in the project so we will see what we can do moving forward
Alex can we buy these of you i need this for my victron asap
The efficiency of this DC-DC are only around 87% and it gets so easily overheated and reduce the charge current just after few minutes.
I would recommend the ultra compact Votronic VCC1212-30 with 95% efficiency and built in fan. It charges with exact 30A even in hotter conditions and can be installed in plcaes with limited space and air circulation.
I hope the new released Victron Orion smart buckboost 50A will be better than the current 30A. Will be intresting to make a test of that one.
Currently doing my best to get my hands on two of the new 50A buckboosts through work.
Interesting reading their manual, I noticed they make a few references to forced airflow increasing unit performance. Although for me, I’m looking forward to being able to connect to my Cerbo
120mm fans are what I will be using, in my RV for air cooled/with fins solar components. Preprinted ducts at a reasonable price would sell a lot, for most popular equipment! Beyond Victron also!?
I use some normal 120mm fans in the cupboards itself to remove warm air from it,
Victron B2B seems to the main ones which overheats. i thought the sterling’s and renorgy already had fans in them.
@@MispronouncedAdventures Yes I think so, But I see regular solar charge controllers can also benefit from this technique. I have Rich solar/Renogy rover types with heat fins, there are many with heat fins on the back or front. My understanding is, if you are running them at/close to full rated power they will last longer run cooler and produce more power without shutting down? I will be trying it with mine?
Alex - another great video, thanks…. You mounted the chargers on aluminium plates… might I suggest extra cooling might be achieved if you ‘stood’ the plates off of the doors (nylon spacers maybe?)
Anyway - we’ll done 👍
In this case the aluminium plates are to meet the mounting of Orion which is to be mounted on a none flammable material.
There isn’t really much contact between the fins and the backing
Yes, a 120mm desktop case/component fan would be a lot quieter and use less power and be cheaper than a laptop fan depending upon what is actually the sweet spot for additional cooling!?
Definitely a conventional 120mm fan is quieter. But Definitely a lot less effective if you’re trying to achieve the absolute maximum output which I am in my case. If you just want to keep the unit a bit cooler than 120mm PC fan with work. Since I’m powering the fan off the input side I guess the actual power usage of the fan it self isn’t particularly relevant in my situation. Sweet but depends on what you’re trying to achieve
@@MispronouncedAdventures True!
Super interesting and very technical. I think the kits would sell.
I'm looking to get a self convert, not done by myself as I don't know Phillip from Flathead but I intend to be fully electric and think I'd benefit from this
Glad to hear you think so I guess me the purpose of the kit would be really easy to install just improves performance sort of deal
I really like the idea…do you think it could be improved even more if the chargers were fitted in an enclosure with fans either end..even route some ducting to a cool spot in the van like a footwell ? I love your ingenious electrics ideas👍🏼 itl be a peltier cooler off the Bobil to power the charger fans next ⚡️🤩
Definitely could be improved I’m sure there’s a number of ways it could be done better.
I’ve been wanting to play with Peliter units for sometime now
Outstanding video. Curious if Renogy DC-DC chargers that come dual fans in the unit are superior? I've got a 40A renogy DC-DC charger and the fans kick on as soon as the unit heats up and produces noticable amount of heat exhaust.
Active cooling is going to be better than passive for sure. I don’t think the Renogy have a temperature related output like that Victron ones.
Hi Alex, this is the 3rd video I've watched (found you though inductive cooling/air fryer). Is there any chance of sharing the STL for those fan ducts?
Glad you enjoyed the video. Unfortunately it’s not my STL file to give away.
@@MispronouncedAdventures just got to the end of the video, did you commercialise the ducts/cable ways in the end?
@@jasonhuxley674 no but my friend “veesventures” on instagram has
@@MispronouncedAdventuresTY I'll take a look, it might save me some time in fusion 360 ;)
Absolutely fascinating. Despite the launch of the Victron DC-DC 50 this is probably as valid today as then (given what the components do).
Amazed given how many corporate builders like to show off their beautiful, yes beautiful to behold, wiring in confined spaces yet have NEVER seen any todate talk about the cooling required. Left me with the intent of squeezing as much into as small a space as possible with no regard for optimal performance. Now understand that confinement does not equate to peak efficiency. An invaluable and timeless lesson for wiring electrical systems.
Thank you.
Ps been watching the channel for awhile simply for the kudos of your van travelling in the Artic. At 60 you have become my pin-up hero! Respect.
Thank you. The new Orion XS 50A is 98% efficiency so little heat is mad but this core idea of keeping electrical components cooler is definitely valid as ever. I do also often lovely build stuffed in cupboard without vent.
Glad to like my arctic videos, I love making them
How did you wire the cooling fans here? Did you cut the plug off and wire them directly to the battery with a fuse or something?
More or less yes.
I cut the plugs off fans and wired them each to a relay ( you can see them on the door at the start of the video, this is for independent control of the fan along with its corresponding charger for my switch on the dash ) the power source for each fan is an ignition live ( unlike charges which are directly of the battery / CCP point ). The fans are also fused inline on the ignition live source
@@MispronouncedAdventures Thanks for the reply. Very helpful
It is all good information to know and understand, but I say that as person who built and wired his system. As for commercial viability of the fan kit it depends how quickly the standard units fail without the fan. More power is good, but that is also more space used and more wires. The Sterling 1260 has a fan built into it, but no “smart” phone capability. Still you can see the charge on your your Victron smart shunt. I think Sterling will get “smart” and Victron will wise up and add a fan. In short it is not a long term commercial market, so don’t invest much.
It’s very much how much about performance over feeling early I think. Whilst mine is the over-the-top solution. Call Ste Marie units installed with limited cooling and they throttle themselves way way below their 30amp output
@@MispronouncedAdventures You are very skilled with these technical issues. Why not have a second alternator and charge your batteries much faster? In the US you can order your van with a second alternator. Can this be done in the UK?
All my chargers and inverters ate under my bed in my travel trailer 7000 watts inverter 45 kw lithium and 200 watts of victron charge controllers. Also 100 amps of 110 chargers with powermax 24 volt chargers. I use 2 small fans one pulling and the other side of the bed cabinet a fan is pushing air out. In the winter it helps heat the camper but summer it kinda cooks that bedroom. I need to install a vent hose qnd fan to pump the hot air outside during summer
My electrical cabinet does pump out from heat in the winter
Would definitely purchase a kit, enjoyed your vids👍
Thank you very much!
Did these ended up being printed and sold? Or a link to the stl and I can print myself.