yeah, that tends to happen with arena. its not very good at handling a ton of objects on the board. back when the world souls rage, sac land ramp deck was in standard. if i used doppelgang at too high a number. like x=10 or something like that, the client would slow down to the point that i would almost time out (with 6 or 7 copies of virtue of strength on the board. just tapping my mana would take like 10 seconds for each land). i had to start under shooting my doppelgang spells just to avoid crashing it.
@@thelifedragon2156 Yeah it's strange - I guess these are sort of extreme cases and such high numbers aren't usually necessary, but MTG Arena definitely has the highest ratio of crashes and reaching limits (like for power of creatures or number of tokens) to playtime of anything I've played, and without explicitly trying to break it. It seems like it shouldn't be too hard to make it handle these edge cases better, but maybe that would come at a cost for performance in regular situations. That's some nice discipline that you learned to cast with less mana - I've always just kept trying and occasionally it breaks, oops.
If I understand how doubling season stacks correctly, if the current power is x you'd need to add x to double it, so the first doubling season wants to add 2x. The other doubling season says to add 4x instead, so the effect is multiplying by 5 for each landfall. Since the power started at 62504, the final value should be 62504 * 5 ^ 80, or 5.17 * 10^60. That's way more than the cap it imposes on creature power though, so it should end up at just over a billion (1,073,741,824) instead. It looks like we'd maybe only have needed 7 landfalls to get past that cap starting from 62504. I'm not sure if the unexpected error is from overflowing the power so far past the cap or because we had 320 events on the stack after Authority of the Consuls triggered.
That seems like it should be right, and I think I'd thought of that too (at least thinking for a while that one doubling season should make it quadruple), but I'm pretty sure it is multiplying by 5. Still feels weird that it doesn't just go 2, 4, 8, but I think it's something with that it's doubling the number added rather than doubling the total number. I wanted to double check so I went back to the previous turn in this game to find a time when it's multiplying and I noticed when the Overlord attacked and it created 4 land tokens, it increased from 100 to 62500, which would be consistent with multiplying by 5^4. Sorry if I'm missing anything! If correct, this does make doubling season a little bit less strong (though it does keep its full intuitive doubling for how many tokens are created), but fortunately it's still way overkill either way.
@@owlzio the way replacement effects work its the first doubling season looks at how many are being put on say 2 then replaces it with double that many counters, then the next one looks at the new counters and doubles it again.
yeah, that tends to happen with arena. its not very good at handling a ton of objects on the board. back when the world souls rage, sac land ramp deck was in standard. if i used doppelgang at too high a number. like x=10 or something like that, the client would slow down to the point that i would almost time out (with 6 or 7 copies of virtue of strength on the board. just tapping my mana would take like 10 seconds for each land). i had to start under shooting my doppelgang spells just to avoid crashing it.
@@thelifedragon2156 Yeah it's strange - I guess these are sort of extreme cases and such high numbers aren't usually necessary, but MTG Arena definitely has the highest ratio of crashes and reaching limits (like for power of creatures or number of tokens) to playtime of anything I've played, and without explicitly trying to break it. It seems like it shouldn't be too hard to make it handle these edge cases better, but maybe that would come at a cost for performance in regular situations. That's some nice discipline that you learned to cast with less mana - I've always just kept trying and occasionally it breaks, oops.
can someone do the math for the moss born hydra power?
If I understand how doubling season stacks correctly, if the current power is x you'd need to add x to double it, so the first doubling season wants to add 2x. The other doubling season says to add 4x instead, so the effect is multiplying by 5 for each landfall.
Since the power started at 62504, the final value should be 62504 * 5 ^ 80, or 5.17 * 10^60. That's way more than the cap it imposes on creature power though, so it should end up at just over a billion (1,073,741,824) instead. It looks like we'd maybe only have needed 7 landfalls to get past that cap starting from 62504. I'm not sure if the unexpected error is from overflowing the power so far past the cap or because we had 320 events on the stack after Authority of the Consuls triggered.
@@owlzio multiplying by 8 not 5 because doubling season is multiplicative not additive
That seems like it should be right, and I think I'd thought of that too (at least thinking for a while that one doubling season should make it quadruple), but I'm pretty sure it is multiplying by 5. Still feels weird that it doesn't just go 2, 4, 8, but I think it's something with that it's doubling the number added rather than doubling the total number.
I wanted to double check so I went back to the previous turn in this game to find a time when it's multiplying and I noticed when the Overlord attacked and it created 4 land tokens, it increased from 100 to 62500, which would be consistent with multiplying by 5^4.
Sorry if I'm missing anything! If correct, this does make doubling season a little bit less strong (though it does keep its full intuitive doubling for how many tokens are created), but fortunately it's still way overkill either way.
@@owlzio the way replacement effects work its the first doubling season looks at how many are being put on say 2 then replaces it with double that many counters, then the next one looks at the new counters and doubles it again.
That makes sense, thanks!