Longswords are not what they say
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.พ. 2025
- The longsword is a much misunderstood weapon. Most people do not know what it was.
#sword #medieval #longsword #RPG
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Ah yes, the invincible three handed sword technique.
If Spinal Tap did HEMA ;-)
Santōryū Iai
I've never heard of anyone losing a duel while three handing a sword, so it's gotta be effective!
@@anderpanders6210_"Did you ever hear about the three handed swordsmen?"_
_"No..."_
_"That's because he was so good no one ever lived to tell the tale!"_
*Zaphod Breedlebox has entered the chat.*
"Extra hand space for a friend" im dead 😂😂
Let your friend grasp your sword for a bit. 😂
Right 😂
Always leave space for Jesus on your grip
@@cloroxusthestainlessone4324 Deus vult 😂
No "friend" of mine I trust to handle my sword.
Yah, most RPGs confuse a Long sword for an Arming Sword.
Or a Bastard sword
I'm looking at you Diablo II. Aside from that, they got the rest of the swords right.
to be fair to them, relative to the alternative (a shortsword) arming swords are quite long
no they don't, longsword means different things over time. We are post Renaissance so today it is a term for a two handed sword. If you go back to George Silver's time pre Renaissance the listings have longsword and dagger as fights separate from shortsword, two handed and rapier combinations. If the setting is clearly pre Renaissance than it is simply a sword longer than a shorter short sword and is perfectly fine. It's like how the broadsword isn't particularly broad, just broader than a small sword. The rules describing a broadsword as broad is much more deserving of your ire.
@@baconghoti you're right but you forget one thing.
The modern term longsword for two handed sword and the RPGs exist at the same time. There is NO reason why RPGs refer to something else as a longsword.
(Well maybe if it's a historical accurate RPG, but that's difficult?)
Longswords are truly a great way to bond with your friends and hold the sword together
Mate are you speedruning shorts
@@Vertfil2Yeah, this guy is everywhere
I was just wondering why I see him all over.
I’ll hold your sword. 😏😏😏
Its good to hold a sword with your friend. Great bonding experience 😊
I like that there's room for another hand so I can fight with my friends.
go home ike
Hey Frederick, hand me my sword! - Which one my lord? - The long one!
That's definition of long sword :)
I have an RPG book, called Via Prudensiae, it's a Danish RPG rules set. And it has an entry for "sværd" (Danish for sword) which is a single handed sword, and an entry for "langswærd" (Danish for longsword) which is a two-hander, quite a bit larger than the sword, and dealing a bit more damage, as befits its larger size.
I would like to see a game which uses longsword as the default 2-handed sword, and the zweihander as more of a specialist polearm.
Haha right! 😅
note that swording by committee tends to be awkward.
And bloody. Oh so bloody.
It's one of the many reasons why sentient weapons are a terrible idea in TTRPGs
@@melissaharris3389 Hack 'n Slash Our Way To Fortune!
Sweden had a 3-man sword at one point, the only conflict its known to have been used in was suppressing a peasant rebellion.
Longswords are for sharing
Geta-long swords
The joys of a lindybeige upload notification
versus
The un-joys of seeing it's a short instead of a 40 minute in-depth German longsword manuscript breakdown using real longswords as a teaching aid
Lindy has discovered shorts and I am all for this.
Lindy making a short? Never thought I’d see that but I’m always happy to see you complain
To be fair, the hard definitions for what constitutes a longsword or broadsword only really appear in the 19th century. There are plenty of medieval manuscripts referring to long arming swords as longswords in addition to the more usual two-handed sword.
Haha, yes. I've questioned this for many years. I'm a new HEMA player, previously a SCAdian, and a 30+ year D&D player.
Thanks for all your many videos, esp giving Wing Chun a little representation in the past.
I was so excited there was a new Lindy video. Im disappointed its only a short.
Longswords; the original three-legged race
For what it's worth, D&D, at least in 4th and 5th editions, actually gives longswords the "versatile" property, so you can use them 1-handed for the listed damage or 2-handed for a boost.
Yep, 1D8 for one handed, and 1D10 while using both hands.
@@DrunkenDweorg I think using a versatile weapon two-handed gave it +2 damagein 4th edition, which is actually slightly better. Also, I find it amusing that a duelist fighter using a longsword one-handed and a great weapon fighter using it two-handed have basically the same damage range in 5th edition.
Pathfinder's longsword:
one handed: 1d8 + strenght modifier
two handed: 1d10 + 1.5 x strenght modifier
...
I'd say they really nailed it👍🗡️
Missed these types of videos!
Hats off to Torn Banner for making the longsword 2 handed in Chivalry 2.
You brightened my day. Thanks for helping me learn something new
I just love your sweaters mate.
Cool content as usual
THANK YOU! I have gone off about this topic way to many times!
The "longsword" in most RPGs more accurately refer to arming swords.
And the shortswords are glorified daggers.
@@Kuhmuhnistische_Parteiand in FFXIV, sometimes the daggers are actually godsdamned *cleavers*.
Is a Claymore longer or shorter than a long sword.
I always loved the line, "It'd take a madman in a kilt with a Claymore to get the better of me!"
Cousin McAdder.
Claymore as a descriptive term has suffered from over-use, to the extent that I can no longer hear it without asking for clarification.
What Gygax and Arneson categorized as a "longsword" in Dungeons and Dragons is really more like an "arming sword" or "knightly sword."
I'm guessing the error rooted in them having "short swords" as a separate proficiency category, and so it just felt right to them to make the other category of one-handed swords with longer blades be called "long swords."
Yeah I think early on when the focus was on movies and wanting to recreate fantasy adventures, the proper terminology wasn't really known as much by the layman in the 80's.
But modern 5th edition D&D does seem to treat Longswords more like hand and a half swords now, where you can either wield it one handed or make a choice to use it two handed for a larger damage dice if your other hand isn't holding something like a shield or something. It feels relatively balanced as if I play as a fighter who has spellcasting it means I forgo a shield to have a hand free for spellcasting, but can also make two handed attacks.
Short sword and long sword are from the German terms kurzes Schwert and langes Schwert (meaning literally the same as the English terms, but the short/long is more obviously just an adjective, not a classification) which refer to fighting styles - the school of the long sword are techniques with generally two hands and derived from that for any kind of swords that are appropriate for those techniques while the school of the short sword refers to techniques focused on using one hand and those swords that would be good for that - like what you would call arming swords.
So DnD "Longswords" are actually more short swords.
@@Kuhmuhnistische_Partei Cool information, but that doesn't seem to be replying to my observation?
To reiterate: DnD designated two broad categories separating _short length_ one-handable bladed weapons from _longer length_ one-handable bladed weapons, and simply called the groups "short swords" and "long swords."
Even daggers were classified as "short swords" for character proficiency purposes. 😅
The basic 1d8 damage, one-handable, longer length, straight sword of DnD came to be called a "longsword" for the purpose of being the standard example of its proficiency category, though it was really a classic 'knightly sword,' as seen in popular media.
And btw, the classic DnD rule sets included weapons like katanas and bastard swords in the "long sword" category, which are definitely not 'short swords.'
@@CognizantCheddar The irony is D&D is closer to actual historical (English) usage than what you're trying to prescribe. Your narrower definition of longsword comes from German, but if we start borrowing from other languages we then run into the minor issue that the same type of sword was basically called an arming sword in Spanish.
It's all well and good to come up with a consistent terminology for historical swords, but people seem to have completely forgotten that it's a relatively recent modern invention. More recent than D&D.
@@Wlerin7 I'm using the modern terminology (which does predate the 1970s), for the same reason I'm speaking to you in modern English and not Anglo-Saxon Old English, _which is actually west Germanic in origin..._ 😑
This got actually a bit better in D&D 5e, as the longsword is now a weapon with the "versatile" stat, which means you can use it one-handed or two-handed and two-handed will do a bit more damage.
The issue is that the only exclusively one-handed sword in D&D is still a shortsword. So arming swords are still missing. It can easily be homebrewed, tough. An arming sword would just have the stats of a longsword used in one hand without the possibility to use it two-handed at all. And it would be cheaper than a longsword, of course.
Interesting. And yeah spot-on! I think my favourite weapon rules are in Mophidius' Conan rules, where all weapons are different and can cause effects relating to their type etc (knocking people back etc).
The most detailed weapon rules I ever saw were in the Rolemaster (and Middle Earth and Spacemaster) RPGs from the 80s. Every weapon and attack spell had a vast chart showing how it works vs every armour type and how much body coverage that armour type has, plus there were dozens of unique critical effect tables that reflected the weapon type too. It was great fun ... but somewhat undermined by the massively simplistic way that your strength was simply added to your weapon still, rather than separately added to damage.
I'm guessing an arming sword would be closer to the rule set (and ASOIAF) "longsword"
In 5e, longswrods are closer to bastard swords, being capable of being used with one hand but getting an damage bonus for being two handed. 3.5 and older editions are in fault of using longswords as one handed weapons tough.
I don't think the term "Arming Sword" was in common use when D&D was created.
@@Blokewood3 Although it certainly existed in specialized literature, because the term was used as early as the 15th century and was probably already used by scholars.
@@Blokewood3
Those are the same crowd that look at brigandine and call it "studded leather armor"
I'm loving these shorts
D&D initially used the terms like this:
"Short Sword" (which is not a historical term) represented any sword with a blade length between 15 ad 24 inches.
"Broad Sword" represented a one-handed sword used mainly for slashing, heavy at the tip and with a nearly parallel blade, like the spatha, migration era sword, and basket-hilted sword.
"Long Sword" represented the sword of the medieval period with a blade of about 30-36 inches for one-handed use that could be used for slashing or thrusting. While historians might use the term "Arming Sword" to refer to them today, this term was not in common use in the 70s.
"Bastard Sword" in D&D covers the medieval longsword and various types of hand-and-a-half sword. To be fair, this is a historical term for those weapons, so they aren't entirely wrong.
"Two-Handed-Sword (aka "Great Sword") in D&D refers to the massive weapons of the late medieval-early renaissance period with a huge hilt and blade that add up to somewhere between 5 and 6 feet (Zweihander, Montante, etc.)
As someone who plays such games, I'm still waiting for the smallsword to get its long overdue recognition. It's such a fun actual one-hander! And an enjoyable pain to draw, which I i consider a bonus.
(To be clear, "draw" here meaning illustration, not unsheathing.)
Thank you! Drives me crazy when I see that mistake in the rulebooks lol
Doing the gods work Lindy!
"Or for a friend if you'd like" 😂
I played American baseball into college. I trained for 20 years to use a club very effectively. I absolutely benefit from swinging with a 2 handed grip. At my peak of fitness my fastest recorded bat speed was over 120mph. With one hand it was between 80 and 100. It was less consistent, no doubt. But each hit wouldve been what anyone would consider a crushing blow.
I have swung swords. Large and small. They are supremely more well balanced than any baseball bat. I still have no real encumbrance when swinging longswords one handed. I am not nearly as fit as I was and I could still draw gasps from a crowd. I've tested this recently.
It's a matter of specific training. I did the closest thing to one part of a Knights training people still do. I can tell you what a lifetime spent swinging things gets you: you can swing big stuff real hard. Not very scientific sounding but there it is.
It may bear mentioning that I'm also descended from Danes. That could be skewing results. Sword does feel natural to the hand, feels more efficient somehow, more in tune with my body than a baseball bat in some ways. Less in others ways.
So yeah two hands if I really wanted to cut a guy in half but one hand if i just needed him dead and nothing fancy to scare his friends.
When it comes to swords, always ask yourself: Can I spam L1?
OK, but why use two hands when you can dual-wield two of them while wearing studded leather armor?
Because you don't want the wrath of Shad to strike you down from his MACHICOLATIONS! :P
🤣🤣🤣
Armour is for people too lazy to become good swordsmen
@@joebloggs5318By which you mean "cheat", and never report a roll as being less than 19 to your DM. 😂
Because historically fuel weirding doesn’t give you as much power as you think it does and if worse for defence that a shield
Its rather telling that in the Flower of Battle, Fiore has one guard for sword in one hand, which is the positional equivalent to where you would be drawing the sword from the scabbard
Not to mention the ball on the end of the handle was often used to puncture armor. With proper gauntlets on, a knight would grab the end of the blade and swing it full force to bonk people on the head, and whether or not they were wearing a helmet, is irrelevant.
Tbh, even if it hits the body, they're going to get a world of pain and death by infection
If only Peter Jackson had a beige man like this.
I mean, the rules also say that studded leather is an armour type so just homebrew it.
Just think of studded leather as brigandine.
I think “suki na ko go megane wo wasureta” has some hype though.
Looking forward for this season of we watch anime! Amazing lineup you have!!
This is part of why I loved Dark Souls, you can one hand or two hand your weapons. It's a small detail that completely changes how the game is played. One handed and a shield for defense, two handed for more offensive power.
Yeah but then everyone and their mother uses the biggest sword they can find onehanded + a shield because why wouldn't you, the requirements aren't that harsh.
And there aren't really any "arming" swords, most weapons from the Straight Sword category are just longswords.
To be fair, and I know it’s not perfect, in systems like 5e D&D they list the longsword as a versatile weapon; that is, it has a damage property for when it’s wielded with one hand, but it has a higher damage property when wielded with two hands, which pretty much aligns with what you said without the system becoming too complex
Why am I thinking of Larry Niven's Moties from "The Mote in God's Eye"?
"Why's this hilt so long?"
"That's so there's room for the *Gripping* *Hand* "
in D&D they have it as a 1-H melee that does 1d8 dmg, but in my game it is a 2-H that can be used one-handed for 1d6 instead. Same rules for applying STR bonuses apply.
Pathfinder, arguably the second most popular fantasy TTRPG, does do the longsword dirty due its split between DnD after 3.5e but before 4e.
However DnD’s 4th, 5th, and 6th/“one” editions have a ruling for longsword that allow the user to deal more damage for using both hands. I think this is a nice hint at it’s real usage while still having fulfilling game mechanics and usability, with it serving the in-game role as the median of a shortsword and greatsword.
When he said "as you can see it's long" I was waiting for "and it's a sword", but that only happened inside of my head.
If we are talking about the 14-16th centuries then yes a longsword is what you described. However, the terms long and short sword are often applied to any sword that is longer or shorter than the standard of that period. For example, the Roman spatha, which was roughly the length of a medieval arming sword, is referred to as a long sword because it was much longer than the standard gladius. Whereas in the 15th century, a sword the length of an arming sword could be referred to as a short sword. As with many historical discussions, context is important. Many 70s-80s RPGs originally had settings based on early and high middle-age periods and in those periods a "longsword" still would have been one-handed.
Chiv 2 has you use both hands, I was kinda surprised. I was conditioned, as you said, to assume it was a one handed weapon
Alright, the next time I play an RPG that has races with extra pairs of hands I'm three-handing my longsword
Just throwing this out there, in D&D 5e, the longsword is Versatile which is a weapon property meaning they can be used in one hand or two, if chosen to be wielded in one hand your damage dice is reduced, reflecting the actuality of not producing the same power and leverage...
Another thing that bothers me about dnd is that everything weighs twice as much as it actually should. >:(
The idea is that the extra weight reflects the bulk.
Yeah, but that is balanced out by making it possible to carry about twice as much as would be realistic.
Also important to know is that they are light, and with two hands on it, it will swing faster, more often than pretty much any one handed weapon could and is more manoeuvrable on top. It's not a club with a blade
There are some fioré one hand longsword techniques, however it’s mostly just for wrestling. For Instance if you close the gap against your opponent after krumphau use your non dominant hand and push their elbow.
A knight on horseback would probably use a longsword in one hand if they dropped their polearm or it broke.
Lastly I will say 5e does kind of do longswords better by making them versatile where two handed longsword does more damage than one handed longsword.
A good rule to deal with this I think would be to debuff the longsword by half or a third or so if used with one hand
D&D 5th edition does this, you get a d8 damage die if you use it one handed, or a d10 if you say you're making a two handed attack.
There's another thing: in some fencing treatises, the chapters "fencing with the long sword" and "fencing with the short sword" refer to the SAME sword.
In longsword, you have both hands on the handle. In short sword, you have one hand at the handle and the other on the middle of the blade, so you can use it better against an armored opponent.
The idea, that longsword is a type of weapon is a rather new one. Back in the late middle ages, they just called it a sword.
That's why I like 5e. It has the versatile property. You _can_ wield it one-handed, but it's more effective in two hands and does a bit more dage as a result.
Lindy you’re ok!
@lindybeige Indeed, most games confuse Arming Swords with Longswords. Although a number of TTG's now have different damage dice for using the sword in one hand versus two hands. They are games and mostly based in fantasy worlds with magic and dragons, so hardly the biggest sin.
And lets not forget that in most of these games people without armour on get to to have as good or better protection than people in full plate or chainmail. It is a *game*, not reality
Longsword: Verstatile 1d10/1d8
In dnd 5e it sounds right on what you are saying. Most effective in two hands but usable with less oompf in 1 hand.
It seems TH-cam finally made a format - shorts - that suits your older style of snippets and short rambles. And it is good for THE ALGORITHM (TM).
I was looking for some grammatical explanation about poet laureate Mr. Long's words.
Pathfinder's longsword:
one handed: 1d8 + strenght modifier
two handed: 1d10 + 1.5 x strenght modifier
...
I'd say they really nailed it👍🗡️
I like the black background makes it seems like the short is horizontal
I have, in sparring, definitely grabbed the spot for the friend's hand on the handle. It's a good move in the grappling.
I feel like they came up with short bow and longbow first, and carried the nomenclature over to swords. If I recall, a short bow and a short sword both do 1D6 Damage in D&D 2e, and a long bow and a long sword both do 1D8.
Correct; but, also, the damage die increases when used with two hands. If it's a real quibble, just homebrew the damage, adjusting to what you see fit, and to what your Players will agree.
That's okay, in games enemies can take 50 hits from a .45 cal. but in real life they would be a pile of chewed up meat.
"Another hand for a friend if you like." the ol reach around and grab his pommel technique.
I had this argument with a friend, he was playing around with his nunchucks and my falchion trying to figure out some nonsense and I pointed out the fact that he was trying to dual-wield 2-handed weapons. He refused to admit the difference between being able to pick up an object and use it properly.
I may be naming my weapon incorrectly, as I am going off of D&D terms, it was a scimitar-shaped weapon, with a mild s-curve between the handle and blade, with an 18" handle and 32" blade, so similar in size to the longsword shown. I know them as Falchions or Great Scimitars
Looking forward to "The Rules According to Lindy" historical RPG.
I truth, I've just watched your spadone videos and been educated. In my mind, as in the minds of game and video game rule-writers and fantasy fiction authors a longsword was a sort of... long short sword. Shorter than a bastard sword, which was in turn was shorter than a greatsword, in my head. Now I know better!
That point of it dealing less force with a 1 handed grip is brought up in DnD 5e by the longsword dealing 1d8 in 1 hand or 1d10 in 2 hand
In DND 5e there’s definitel an emphasis on using it two handed. You *can* use it one handed, but you’ll deal less damage.
Someone needs to make a 2+ player co-op VR game where each person has their hands in control of the same sword. Maybe could bump it up to 3 or 4 players, where they all have one hand on the sword and another on a supporting item. Would be hell to get anything done haha.
Not a patch on our Highland Claymore, literally swinging a skyscraper at them, i also love that huge german double handeled one
D&D existed well before the revival of medieval fencing. According to the wiki page HEMA people started to use the longsword term only in the early 2000s.
In medieval roleplay games, I only use an authentic zweihander, and a. 38 revolver.
Normally they are not typified as longswords but "Long swords" to contrast "short swords". Their long sword is basically an arming sword in any tabletop rpg.
I agree, D&D 5e treats it pretty much as a bastard sword where you can either swing it one handed with a shield, or if you wish you can use it in two hands and get a larger damage dice.
Note that "short sword" is not a historical term. In D&D it just refers to any sword with a blade length between 15 and 24 inches. Many of the weapon types in D&D are more like categories to represent a broad group of similar weapons.
@@Blokewood3 Agree
It was to make numbers convenient, and people just kind of rolled with it. What we would call a longsword now would have been classified as a slow, clumsy six-foot chopper which would automatically push your attacks to the end of a combat turn when it was anything but.
@@Blokewood3 Well, "long sword" and "short swords" are historical terms from German fencing manuals, but the space between is important. It's "langes Schwert" and "kurzes Schwert" , not "Langschwert" and "Kurzschwert". Those latter, wrong terms exist today in German, but mostly because of DnD. And langes Schwert/kurzes Schwert refer to techniques first - langes Schwert are fighting styles where two hands are used for most of the time, while kurzes Schwert means any fighting style where only one hand is used. And then you can call swords lange or kurze Schwerter depending for what style they are best suited. So an arming sword would actually be a short sword, because it's used mostly in an one-handed style, so in the way/school of the short sword.
If youre in a dungeon or tower, youll want a shield.
Many RPG scenarios you also want a shield.
There have always been rules for holding in 2 hands. You get 50% more str damage bonus.
More damage or more defense?
Also the English "longsword" is actually just a relatively modern translation of the German "langes Schwert" which means... well... long sword. But like a long sword. A sword, that is long. "Long" is not a classifcation, it literally just means any blade that is long - where you draw the line is kinda arbitrary. Not a longsword as a super specific term. I may be wrong in my memories, but I'm quite sure medieval people themselves didn't really have super specific terms for all those types of swords we think of. Fencing manuals just used "long sword" to refer to fencing techniques where both hands were used on the sword at most times, while "kurzes Schwert" (short sword) refered to techniques where you would only use one hand. And those techniques were of course used for different types of swords, a sword for long sword techniques logically tended to be longer.
And funnily enough, through DnD the term was then translated back to German as "Langschwert" alongside "Kurzschwert" for short sword. Probably because when you have "long sword" in English it isn't really clear if that's meant as one term or an adjective and a substantive.
Galaxy brain: you could use a shield strapped to your forearm and still have two hands to use the sword with!
iirc you can use two hands for longswords in D&D, which adds another damage die or changes the damage die to a higher-faced one
I'm still gonna go with Fire Arrows 😊
I'm an american. We prefer the staff of many magic missiles. In .30 caliber.
I feel personally attacked.
Ily Lindy beige ♥️
I suppose someone got embarrased with the term Bastard Sword
This video is exactly why I am using accurate weapon descriptions and weights in my ttrpg. I'm not concerned about accuracy to time period though, just weapon and armor technical accuracy. And, DON'T get me started on those effing double weapons that came out in 3rd edition Dungeons & Dragons! Lightsaber with two blades? Ok, I can see that considering there's no (or negligible for the physicists out there lol) weight to the blades .
I love this chap
I'm envisioning a warrior just reach out and grab that empty space on his buddies hilt.
I miss old historical and military films like this one :(
Many role playing games are open to "tweaking" you can have your own rules Mr Beige I am sure there's a video idea in there somewhere too 😅
In D&D you can choose to wield a longsword using both hands for a bit of extra damage, only a smidge though!
I always like a friends hand on my sword…
I’d love to see a system that allows for shield use with a longsword at the cost of greatly reduced damage potential
Dnd 5e takes this into a account, letting you use a longsword one handed, so you could use a shield or something else in your other hand, but allowing for better damage potential if used in both hands
Utterly fascinating! (I Think).
It's almost as if they take place in fantasy settings... But thank you lindybeige for being a terrific human being.
Maybe it’s a one handed sword for you, but Billy the Elf is so strong and skilled with the long sword he uses one in each hand.