Hi viola kingdom, I’m considering making a more in-depth video about different set-ups I’ve tried and how they affected my playing, then explaining why I’ve been experimenting with the crazy set-up you see in this video. Would you watch that video or does that sound boring ? Thanks for writing comments about what you thought of chinrest vs. no chinrest! I am actually super curious to hear other peoples’ opinions so I know if it is worth the struggle to keep experimenting.
I appreciate your search! I’m a professional violist and, at the age of 60, my body is changing, so my set up is changing as well. Finding your video is synchronous for me! I spent the entire summer practicing with no shoulder rest and no chin rest. There’s something so incredibly liberating about it. To be aware of the space above and beneath is awesome. I found your instrument (and my instrument as well) sounded much more open and resonant. I did have some fatigue in my shoulder, so I decided to put a shoulder and chin rest back on, but not the same ones I had! I have a chin wrist that is so flat it is barely there and a shoulder rest that is only an inch in height. I was able to use the experience this summer as a template to devise a set up that gets me as close to that wonderful and free “ nothing” as possible. And I absolutely love it! The search was well worth it! I really enjoy your channel, and I send all my students to view your videos. Thank you so much for sharing!
My brain is telling me that if I tryed plying my Viola like that the instrument woud end up flying at the hardwood floors below me at mach 5 at least three times before I finished one song.
hi. I'm a violinist and have been watching your channel for a few years. Just wanted to say you sound so great and you've also improved so much since I first subscribed. keep it up!
Waiting for the follow up video "Playing Viola with and without the strings" All jokes aside, although I use both shoulder rest and chinrest, I often find myself lifting my head off the instrument to allow for more freedom of movement and communication in group settings. It definitely does make a difference on how you hear yourself playing when you do this. Of course I enjoy the security of using them when in a tricky shifting passage. As always I aim for best of both worlds
I may have mentioned it on a livestream a few times. I’ve been playing without a shoulder rest for about a year. Some things are more difficult but it definitely works better for me. I’m glad it works well for you too!
Now I'm curious. I've never been able to find a comfortable shoulder rest, and everything I've tried has left a bruise or "viola hickey" on my neck or jaw. Any advice, and should I try no shoulder rest?
I'm impressed that your vibratos worked so well without a chinrest. The viola moved so much, yet still functioned. You seem to smile more without the chin rest, an interesting observation. You're quite skilled, so it's hard for a layperson like me to really hear the differences between you with and without a chin rest. It's also harder, since you're better versed in terms like musicality and intonation, which I'd have to learn more about to give meaningful (to you) comments :) I'm interested and willing but not so able. If you provided commentary in the vids, I could zero in on what you notice and comment, but open ended, and it's very tough :)
Me as a Viola player, I have played without a chin rest and for some reason, it felt normal, even though it is not. Idk if it comes from Double Bass playing and my neck might be comfortable with sitting with an instrument near my head, and neck. Most likely not because it is a chin rest, but for some reason I did not feel anything lol. So that is the only possible theory lol.
Thank you so. much for offering this comparison. I play viola myself and struggle to find a proper shoulder rest, so I've been pondering changing to no shoulder/chinrest. Except for the Paganini, I found your playing much more alive and the sound more ringing than when the viola is "strapped" to your body. How did you experience the movements against your neck and on your shoulder? I noticed that the viola moved quite a bit, even with the vibrato. The change in Bartoc from I think 3rd position downwards was interesting, how you first moved the fingers down and then adjusted your wrist. Does this shift feel like you might drop the viola ? How did you like the resonance in your body? I played Viola da Gamba for some time and really liked how it resonated in the body.
I had to slowly get over the fear of dropping my viola but in time I actually felt that the physical motion of the instrument in response to my bow and vibrato encouraged me to react more to the momentum of the music I was playing. For shifts down to first position, I have to worm my hand downwards using my thumb, making it hard to vibrate immediately after and sometimes affecting my intonation-the Bartok shift was an instance of this as well as pretty much the whole Paganini as you noted. Thank you for your thoughts!
First and foremost: your playing is adorable with and without chin rest. That said, I think ist is always about the combination of chin and shoulder rest. I currently test the dolfinos system where chin and solder rest share only one attachment point. For the sound it is very beneficial. I also tried it without the chin rest to find myself struggling with down shifts so much that I stopped it. So I will continue to have chin and shoulder rest the dolfinos style having the instrument as free to resonate as possible.
This is mad impressive! Thanks for sharing this experiment with us. It seems like you've really learned how to open up the natural resonance of your viola by going back and forth with your chinrest. It reminds me of when I used to switch back and forth between violin and viola everyday in my junior year of college. I felt like I became a lot more flexible and I was able to adapt my technique so much more easily than I do now. I think I'm going to start incorporating more violin back into my routine to see if it will help ease my left arm tension in the next few weeks. For me, I think the chinrest wins in the end. As long as you're still able to move your head around a bit when you need the extra freedom to phrase and release. Also I love your composition at the end! Is that one for sale?
Thanks Joe, I have been thinking about flexibility a lot recently too in technical and musical ways. My piece is part of a 4-movement sonata which I’m still editing but I’ll send you the movement I played in this video for free if you email me
James, I don't think I could make a blanket statement that one was better than the other. Some pieces sounded much better to my ears with the chinrest, but others (most of all the very baroque Bach) sounded better without. If I had to grade them then the more modern the piece then the better they sounded WITH the chinrest. However, overall, like the semi-religious kerfuffle of shoulder rest or no, I think it's up to the player what they think sounds better to them. In other words, I think it's more opinion than musicality.
I'm curious what setup you use for your chin/shoulder rest. I have a relatively similar build and It's always difficult for me to finding something super comfortable. .
My viola came with a chin rest clamped to it, but it was unnatural and got in the way so I threw it away. Without it you can use your chin like a tremolo arm on an electric guitar to get vibrato on open strings. :) Why does the viola have that heavy lump on the end? It's all about BALANCE, and adding weight to the other end destroys that balance. The shoulder rest and chin rest are like TRAINING WHEELS on a bicycle: Only scared little children are supposed to use them. Odd how the "experts" still seem to need them...
Hi viola kingdom, I’m considering making a more in-depth video about different set-ups I’ve tried and how they affected my playing, then explaining why I’ve been experimenting with the crazy set-up you see in this video. Would you watch that video or does that sound boring ?
Thanks for writing comments about what you thought of chinrest vs. no chinrest! I am actually super curious to hear other peoples’ opinions so I know if it is worth the struggle to keep experimenting.
i would definetly watch it!
WOW I DIDNT KNOW VIOLIN PIECES SOUND AS GOOD ON VIOLA ❤😊😳👍🏼🔥🎻
When I get better at viola I am gonna try those pieces
I'd love a video about different setups, and their effect on your playing.
Yes please!
I appreciate your search! I’m a professional violist and, at the age of 60, my body is changing, so my set up is changing as well. Finding your video is synchronous for me! I spent the entire summer practicing with no shoulder rest and no chin rest. There’s something so incredibly liberating about it. To be aware of the space above and beneath is awesome. I found your instrument (and my instrument as well) sounded much more open and resonant. I did have some fatigue in my shoulder, so I decided to put a shoulder and chin rest back on, but not the same ones I had! I have a chin wrist that is so flat it is barely there and a shoulder rest that is only an inch in height. I was able to use the experience this summer as a template to devise a set up that gets me as close to that wonderful and free “ nothing” as possible. And I absolutely love it! The search was well worth it! I really enjoy your channel, and I send all my students to view your videos. Thank you so much for sharing!
My brain is telling me that if I tryed plying my Viola like that the instrument woud end up flying at the hardwood floors below me at mach 5 at least three times before I finished one song.
As a baroque viola student, team no chin rest! The natural resonance is totally worth it imo 🤩
hi. I'm a violinist and have been watching your channel for a few years. Just wanted to say you sound so great and you've also improved so much since I first subscribed. keep it up!
Waiting for the follow up video "Playing Viola with and without the strings"
All jokes aside, although I use both shoulder rest and chinrest, I often find myself lifting my head off the instrument to allow for more freedom of movement and communication in group settings. It definitely does make a difference on how you hear yourself playing when you do this. Of course I enjoy the security of using them when in a tricky shifting passage. As always I aim for best of both worlds
Wow! What a difference. The sound was brighter and more resonant without the chinrest.
Ooh I love how you played the first song!! I wonder how it'll sound on my volin 😮
I’m not sure if I heard this from Viola King or not but I tried playing without my shoulder rest and my playing improved immediately.
I may have mentioned it on a livestream a few times. I’ve been playing without a shoulder rest for about a year. Some things are more difficult but it definitely works better for me. I’m glad it works well for you too!
Now I'm curious. I've never been able to find a comfortable shoulder rest, and everything I've tried has left a bruise or "viola hickey" on my neck or jaw. Any advice, and should I try no shoulder rest?
@@JDOGG2753 I encourage you to at least try it.🎶🎵🙃
I'm impressed that your vibratos worked so well without a chinrest. The viola moved so much, yet still functioned.
You seem to smile more without the chin rest, an interesting observation.
You're quite skilled, so it's hard for a layperson like me to really hear the differences between you with and without a chin rest.
It's also harder, since you're better versed in terms like musicality and intonation, which I'd have to learn more about to give meaningful (to you) comments :)
I'm interested and willing but not so able. If you provided commentary in the vids, I could zero in on what you notice and comment, but open ended, and it's very tough :)
Me as a Viola player, I have played without a chin rest and for some reason, it felt normal, even though it is not. Idk if it comes from Double Bass playing and my neck might be comfortable with sitting with an instrument near my head, and neck. Most likely not because it is a chin rest, but for some reason I did not feel anything lol. So that is the only possible theory lol.
Maybe your hand is more used to extensions bc of double bass. My hand had to stretch out gradually for my setup to work lol
@@ViolaKing Maybe
You seem more secure with the instrument when you have the chin rest.
Thank you so. much for offering this comparison. I play viola myself and struggle to find a proper shoulder rest, so I've been pondering changing to no shoulder/chinrest. Except for the Paganini, I found your playing much more alive and the sound more ringing than when the viola is "strapped" to your body.
How did you experience the movements against your neck and on your shoulder? I noticed that the viola moved quite a bit, even with the vibrato. The change in Bartoc from I think 3rd position downwards was interesting, how you first moved the fingers down and then adjusted your wrist. Does this shift feel like you might drop the viola ?
How did you like the resonance in your body? I played Viola da Gamba for some time and really liked how it resonated in the body.
I had to slowly get over the fear of dropping my viola but in time I actually felt that the physical motion of the instrument in response to my bow and vibrato encouraged me to react more to the momentum of the music I was playing. For shifts down to first position, I have to worm my hand downwards using my thumb, making it hard to vibrate immediately after and sometimes affecting my intonation-the Bartok shift was an instance of this as well as pretty much the whole Paganini as you noted. Thank you for your thoughts!
Hey viola king, I love the chaconne, I learn that song in the viola😊
First and foremost: your playing is adorable with and without chin rest.
That said, I think ist is always about the combination of chin and shoulder rest. I currently test the dolfinos system where chin and solder rest share only one attachment point. For the sound it is very beneficial. I also tried it without the chin rest to find myself struggling with down shifts so much that I stopped it. So I will continue to have chin and shoulder rest the dolfinos style having the instrument as free to resonate as possible.
This is mad impressive! Thanks for sharing this experiment with us. It seems like you've really learned how to open up the natural resonance of your viola by going back and forth with your chinrest. It reminds me of when I used to switch back and forth between violin and viola everyday in my junior year of college. I felt like I became a lot more flexible and I was able to adapt my technique so much more easily than I do now. I think I'm going to start incorporating more violin back into my routine to see if it will help ease my left arm tension in the next few weeks.
For me, I think the chinrest wins in the end. As long as you're still able to move your head around a bit when you need the extra freedom to phrase and release. Also I love your composition at the end! Is that one for sale?
Thanks Joe, I have been thinking about flexibility a lot recently too in technical and musical ways. My piece is part of a 4-movement sonata which I’m still editing but I’ll send you the movement I played in this video for free if you email me
@@ViolaKing It's coming across great! I'll hop on that email before I forget
James, I don't think I could make a blanket statement that one was better than the other. Some pieces sounded much better to my ears with the chinrest, but others (most of all the very baroque Bach) sounded better without. If I had to grade them then the more modern the piece then the better they sounded WITH the chinrest. However, overall, like the semi-religious kerfuffle of shoulder rest or no, I think it's up to the player what they think sounds better to them. In other words, I think it's more opinion than musicality.
Without grippy rests (chin/shoulder) the fabric of my shirt becomes important : it shouldn't be too slippery.
I'm curious what setup you use for your chin/shoulder rest. I have a relatively similar build and It's always difficult for me to finding something super comfortable. .
Lovely ❤ I loved at some point playing without chinrest if it was not for the damage the chin/jaw can do to the instrument’s varnish :/
Hi, there! It's been a while since your last video... Is everything OK?
i guess with? but i'll take either
what is your viola brand?
My viola came with a chin rest clamped to it, but it was unnatural and got in the way so I threw it away. Without it you can use your chin like a tremolo arm on an electric guitar to get vibrato on open strings. :) Why does the viola have that heavy lump on the end? It's all about BALANCE, and adding weight to the other end destroys that balance. The shoulder rest and chin rest are like TRAINING WHEELS on a bicycle: Only scared little children are supposed to use them. Odd how the "experts" still seem to need them...
baroque viola/violin is quite difficult to do chin off
What is the size of your viola?😮
What is that chinrest that you use?