I own and still ride my 10 year old SuSi Evo equipped with a 9000 Dura Ace and a Rotor 3D+ with P2M powermeter. To bring it to a UCI-legal weight, I use a 5 year old DT Swiss RRC 65 wheelset with tubeless mounted 25 mm tyres. What can I say ... with this setup, I just won the hilly gran fondo world championships in Trento. Going over the last top along with the two other riders, I could distance them in the last, very technincal descent to Trento. Some people truely think that this cannot be possible. Second place in my age group also went to a Cannondale SuSi, although in a somewhat later evolution, but still with rim brakes. Third place went to a rider with a disc brake bike - after hitting the deck due to a braking error in one of the hairpin curves.
I've got one of the last old SSEVO's (Green/black team frame from 2017) with Di2, disc brakes, carbon wheels and the lightweight Cannondale Hollowgram crankset. It's exactly on the UCI weight limit of 6.8kgs. I've compared it against a whole load of newer "aero" bikes (3T Strada, Cevello S5, Scott Foil) just to name a few and none got anywhere close to the performance of the SSEVO around the same 30 mile course through the Chilterns. The comfort you get on the SSEVO is also extremely good plus it has that classic look. Comfort wise the 3T Strada was also very good. What many forget to mention is that aero only starts working above a certain speed and unless you are a competition cyclist you probably won't gain any benefit. Its just more marketing to sell bicycles...
Agree with all of the above, would take the old Evo every day of the week. Pretty sure it was somewhere around 15mph that aero came more into play, so in theory unless you're just doing hill climbs there should be *a* difference. Whether that's beneficial to an amateur is infinitely debatable - as somebody who rides in shorts and t-shirt I'd say no.
The old ssevo is a legend. The new one had absolutely lost its charm looking like the rest of the bikes out there. 10 years from now, I could only see the old ssevo being valued as a collector's item and the new one, forgotten in time.
You're right! Supersix Evo hi-mod is legend. Most superlight bikes are on that frame. Its some like F40 on supercars. All current bikes SL7, ssevo, SLR01 look almost the same🙄
@@callistof1I hope you are right, a few months ago I bought a 2012 Supersix Evo hi-mod that looks exactly like the one in the video, with Di2...it is absolutely fabulous...enjoy your riding
@@SurpriseMeJT I believe that bikes have made advancements in terms of both speed and comfort in the last 10 years - we're probably not talking about massive changes....like for the average person who can't ride at 45 km/h we're talking about maybe a minute or 2 per hour of riding at 30 km/h...or something in that magnitude - but maybe also being able to offer a more comfortable ride. David is making his living off bike videos and being given access by the manufacturers to some of their top end spec is a very big part of his work. He pretty much has to say that the new bikes are better....at the risk of losing access to the gear and not being able to make his content.
Absolutely the tire size makes the difference!!!! Otherwise, no diff in the carbon or the shapes. Rim brakes work perfectly well for us everyday riders too. I’ll stick with my Cervelo R3 rim brake bike which has carried me perfectly fine and comfy for over 40,000 miles. Yeah it was a big investment back then but still keeps paying back it’s investments!! Great vid by the way
I am just gonna say it: Disc brakes pretty much negate 10 years of development of the bicycles. Is the new frame more aerodynamic? Yes it is. Does it compensate for aero penalty of the disc brakes? I am not so sure. Put nice deep wheels with 23 mm tires on the old one and I bet it would be faster. Disc brakes and wide tires are for gravel.
couldn't disagree more regarding ride quality, I have both a 2016 HM and 2020 HM, 2016 much smoother ride. I do agree the 2020 is faster but that may be more the wheels than anything else.
As always a wonderful presentation David with a real human connection to the subject. I own/love a 2019 rim brake Evo Ultegra--pared back graphics and a shocking red-orange color.with a Hollowgram crank, some DT Swiss PR 1400 oxic wheels (and the lovely 240S hubs)--these parts and some other swap outs (saddle, bars, and stem) gave me a 7.4kg bike for less that $4K. The ride is superb and the handling is sublime--sure--I get overtaken on long flat stretches, but uphill, downhill, and through curves I catch up. The one thing I can't catch up to is the price of a new bike.
I love your comment. The best bikes are those that have been lovingly and cleverly modified by their owners over the years. In my oppinion this process is a key part of racing cycling.
I have both of these bikes and one thing not mentioned is, there is definitely a familiar feeling when I first tested the new one. Put lots of km’s on the 2012 and the 2020 just felt right. They are both great bikes and love riding each of them.
The new bike may be better but the reality is that to buy one you would need to spend 5x as much, at least where I live. I’d be interested in a comparison over the same course at a set power. How they feel is subjective. In reality the newer bike will be about 3-5% faster which is not much for an extra £4000. New bikes might be good but they’re not good value.
At this point in road bike evolution, and current state of aero and materials science, we are dealing with an exponential return curve. Over time, you'll spend more and more money (already approaching ridiculous values) to acquire less and less of incremental gains. For the pro, no problem, as they aren't footing the bill. For the hardcore amateur, perhaps - road cycling is a vice after all. At least in a money-sink sense. --> Should have taken up gardening, or birdwatching.
I'm sorry David but the old one is by far the best new evo hasn't a patch on the old one it great video.
2 ปีที่แล้ว +3
The fact that you can buy the old supersix EVO for less than 2k $ used, and can do 100% of your maintenance yourself are enough for me to choose the old one over the new one any day of the week. The price factor should have been a topic in this video, extremely relevant to your audience.
Standard seat stays just look more correct than dropped ones. I can't help but think that the dropped seat stays are little more than a purely aesthetic design that's trendy right now. Nothing more, nothing less.
I just switched to a Trek Domane AL5 after riding a Trek 1.5 series for like 11-12 years.....my speed/power is pretty much identical BUT the ride is sooo much smoother. The only real advantage i've noticed in the new bike is the tire clearance. Riding on 32c tires after riding on 23c or 25c for over a decade makes a HUGE difference for me.
I still love my “old” 2017 SuperSix EVO HM which I build it at 14lbs and recently got me a 2022 SuperSix EVO SE for the graveler/adventure rides on 700x45c tires. Other than that I wouldn’t have upgraded to the standard 2022 EVO. Nope, no thanks.
I’ve just moved from a 1998 105 equipped Bottechia to a 105 equipped Giant TCR. The difference is nothing short of astonishing in the weight, road feel, brakes and aerodynamics. Obviously I’m 24 years older too but I’m smashing my PBs all over the place.
If you were competing in a hill climbing comp then for sure the lighter bike would be an advantage. But even if you have a 10km climb in an 80km ride - the aero bike will gain back with interest on the other 70km what it lost on the 10km of climbing.
I wholeheartedly agree with your Supersix assessment. I have 3 of them. 2 HM's similar to yours and a non HM and still love them today. I love the classic look of them. Have it refinished with a beautiful coat of fresh paint in your favorite color and enjoy. But... I found out the hard way, you're not going over 25c tires with narrower rims. Forget about wide rims. I had to remove the wide Zipp's I installed with 25c tires (blew out to 28!), because the tires started to rub the inside of the chainstays
@@DigitalB11 not far superior, just a little, unless you are doing extended descents then its nice to have a little more pad durability even though its also marginal. the real benefit from discs is you get to maintain your wheels less often as you should, so that eventually your tires rub your frame versus the brake pads.
If you put deep section wheels like the new bike onto the old bike I'm pretty sure the 10 year old will out perform the new one up hills and any terrain, most of the aero gains are through the deep section wheels.
For sure some of it is in the wheels, but the frame makes a big difference as well. That would be a great test...but remember that putting deep section wheels on the older SSEVO would cut into the weight differential
@@chrisgilligan4968 not really because you can buy 40mm deep and weigh 1260 grams so it will be even lighter, don't forget its rim break so a lot lighter and more aero
@@fernandodisola6675 The bike design is more aero. It is capable of taking wider rims which take wider tires run at lower pressures which have been shown to produce lower rolling resistance. Remember that the weight of the bike makes up a small percentage of the "system" of bike and rider. If the average rider weighs 72 kg - then the light bike total system weight is 80kg and the heavy bike is 81kg....it really doesn't make as much of a difference as you'd think. Maybe you're right - I don't have the resources to go and buy all this stuff myself to test it out. The most important part is to get out there and ride.
@@chrisgilligan4968 to be quite honest i run a 28mm tyre at 100psi and tried a lower pressure at 70 psi, I found that running a t 100psi was so much faster than a lower pressure I thought running a lower i would had a better rolling resistance but not so a higher pressure definitely worked a lot better don't know why?
@@fernandodisola6675 If you ride on incredibly smooth roads then higher pressure is better. The gains in rolling resistance come when the roads are rough and the lower pressure absorbs the imperfections better and keeps the wheel turning more efficiently instead of bumping up and down. I'm currently running 25's at about 80 psi. It helps with comfort - don't know if it would be faster at higher pressure, and haven't tried 28's yet. Although with the wheels I have, the 25's stretch out close to 28 due to the internal width of the rim.
I have the 2012 HM SuperSix EVO, Liquigas team edition (SRAM Red components in green on the levers, frame is white and green colorway). I love the bike. I do wish it had clearance for wider tires but otherwise I am completely satisfied with it. I have had 10 years of great riding with it and hope to have many more. I don't care for the look of the new, minimalistic aero road bikes - they seem sterile and boring to me. I do appreciate disc brakes (have them on my two MTBs and my gravel bike) but the rim brakes are just fine on the EVO and I appreciate the simplicity and ease of maintenance with those brakes and the external cables and mechanical gears since I try to do all of my own bike mech work. I might be tempted by the new EVO if I ever rode one, so I will resist temptation by happily riding my 10 year old bike :)
Cannondale pricing now is too high when compared with Giant, for the same benefits. Bought my 2015 6800 Ultegra Evo for £1300 in the sale, comparable model today is a good few thousand more, disproportionate. Giant won the day for me on quality/value, will keep the old Evo and enjoy on the odd day.
The very best supersix evo is the rim brake EVO 2 (2016 to 2019). As light as the evo 1 in this video but with extra room for wider tires which makes it as comfortable as the evo 3 in this video. Ride quality of the evo 2 is also better than the evo 3. I recommend a follow up video where you compare an evo 2 against these two. Btw, there was an evo 2 with disk brakes too (but rim brake bikes have a nimbler better ride quality)
It's all well and good to say that the new bike feels faster....would have been nice to see a real world test of some sort. Ride a 30 km loop with some hills, flats, into wind on both bikes at the same power output and see which one is faster. All the same, thanks for the look down memory lane!!
You can’t compare the old bike with shallow aluminium wheels and 25s then hop on the new one with deep section carbon wheels with 28s and say it’s smoother and faster, it’s just nonsense! The old bike is legendary and a thing of beauty. The new one is just a carbon copy of every other dull as dishwater frame on the market! 2011-2016 was the peak of bike design and manufacturing. It’s all gone down hill from there! Give me the old evo any day of the week!
A super well-done, and shrewdly-worded video. Can't help but laugh@ "...the aero improvements of this bike are noticeable straightaway! Even at low speeds..." 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Gimme the old one any day.
I say have them all!! Haha each bike is special for different reasons. As a commuter performance is something to consider for sure but I also commute because I love being on the bike. And the ability to pick a different bike when the mood strikes is awesome. I have a run of the mill cannondale quick for a daily work hoarse but if I feeling my oats, it’s my specialized allez epic from around 1992. Early, lugged carbon tubed frame that is just a blast to ride! Love the content! Keep up the good work 👍
A much better question is "Is it 5x better?" I mean even adjusted for inflation the price of a top end bike now is way over double what it was 10 years ago. 30 watts faster frame? I doubt it. Wheels including maybe. Either way better other get/stick with an old bike and get a skinsuit/Th bike if going fast solo is your thing. In a group ride aerodynamics are not even relevant.
Still remember my first Peugeot bike ( $125 USD) and a rich kid’s Le Jeune with Campy groupset ($600 USD)back in 70s. Vintage bikes now, fyi…I am riding a knockoff Pinarello Dogma F12 . Thanks David.👍👍👍
Also the riding position of modern bikes is much more upright with higher stack heights. Making pro bikes more comfortable for the average rider with money to splash. 👍 Great video
I ride and own Cannondale caad5 slice carbon, hand made in USA. Dura ace shifter and Cosmic wheel set. It's beauty and riding is really great. Thanks for comparison video. 🚴🏽♂️
I prefer the old one. No thief is interested in 10 year old tech. Which is kind of sad, all my bicycle related purchases heavily revolve around: "Will a thief want to rob this?" So I have the highest spec thing that I can find, that's not super flashy.
Thank god for this video, been wanting opinions on this as a Dale'r, cant say much abt the new evos but it seems like im more drawn to the older Dales :)
Sweet. Love your "then and now" reviews. Looking forward to a local seaside loop later on my 2011 Spec Roubaix SL3 rim brake ride. Yep, still has its smooth ride quality and doesn't require a bleed kit. 😉 Seriously though, prices today ***cough***. Thank goodness for trickle down tech. 👍
I have a 2016 supersix hi-mod dura ace spec, I hoped the review would be objective . Example same road same watts on same road , what is is the speed difference between generations? the carbon tube seat post has flex giving comfort on previous gen. The disc rim debate has been shown to not showing a great distance in stopping distance. Love to see the review run again with more tests incorporated
Around 9th minute the narative about how smooth the new bike is... Can't help noticing how the voice is vibrating from the 'improved comfort' and the road buzz...
I was all ready to look on eBay for an old Supersix Evo as a great, lightweight bike or frame option and then you had to test the new one! Looks like I’ll have to do a bit more saving-up! 🤣
@@BikeLife154 Other than climbing hills greater than 6% - the new bike...even at 1kg heavier should be the faster overall bike. The aero savings with the tube designs and internal cabling and the rolling resistance benefits of wider tires at lower pressures - will almost certainly well overtake the marginal losses on the climbing portions of a regular ride....unless you are riding in the mountains.
@@chrisgilligan4968 let’s face it, the majority of riders are not just riding down hills or on the flat. I climbed 115,000 meters last year and I would never want to do that on that new evo! Put some Carbon wheels on the old evo and you will be up with that new bike while having a much nicer looking bike!
@@BikeLife154 The aesthetic is a personal thing. I'm fairly new to riding later in life. I'm not drawn to the "classic" style of the older bikes. From purely a weight standpoint, you're talking about 1kg on the bike...but the weight is of the system - bike and rider. So if a typical rider weighs 72kg give or take - the difference in the system weight between the 2 is 80kg for the light bike and 81kg for the heavy bike. If you rode 4 times per week on average, your 115000 m of climbing breaks down to about 550 m per ride - not something the weight savings is going to make a huge difference on. At the end of the day - the important thing is to have a bike that you enjoy from a looks, ride quality and performance standpoint so that you keep getting out there and riding.
Thought body position was a bigger determining factor than frame? Also the newer bike has Deeper wheels how would the older bike do with deeper wheels?
Nice video! Wouldn’t trade in my 2016 Cannondale SuperSix Hi-mod Evo with rim brakes for that new one & a pot of 💰. Okay maybe for a big pot of gold. : )
Great comparison David. I recently upgraded from a 2013 model bike to a 2021 model and the difference is mind-blowing. Much more comfort, but also more responsive. That was a confusing feeling at first, a bike that cushions the bumps but also rips when you sprint. Disc brakes are also so much better, no question. Add in electronic gears and the bikes are worlds apart.
Too bad you were out riding both bikes but did not seize the opportunity to ride both at the same speed on the same stretch of road and see if you really saved 30 Watts as claimed!! Why not??? :)) Nice marketing shilling while trying to keep a somewhat neutral outlook. Yes lads, the cycling industry promises that once the next bike models come out even more aero and stiffer and more comfortable than the previous model, everyone will be holding 25mph/40kph by just pushing 100 watts. A real keen performance and practicality oriented rider will take the original supersix evo any day every day.
in 2016 was debating between Tarmac Expert and Super6 Evo.....purchased the Tarmac Expert but still to this day wanted that Super6 Evo as my second bike. Not a fan of the current version.
I do love new bikes, but I think for the average rider, weight (especially your own weight) is almost certainly a more important factor than aerodynamics if you're trying to ride a bit faster. Aero designs make a big difference if you're going nearly as fast as a professional rider, but most people don't ride at sustained speeds of 40 km/h, even on flat roads. If they're over 35 years old, they're probably riding in a more comfortable riding posture most of the time anyway, which kind of negates the aero benefits of more aggressive bike designs.
actually the two are connected, if you have some belly it's harder to get low on your bike which is the most important aerodynamic component in any bike, the rider and by a lot!!
Stefan Kirchmaier just won the Marmotte, on a rim brake Cannondale with mechanical SRAM (red) and mavic CCU full carbon wheels. 3rd in the GC rode a Specialized (SL6?) rim brake with low carbon wheels. From their timings, the rim brakes + carbon wheels didn't slow them down on the downhills one second (to the contrary) compared to most competitors on overweight disc bikes twice as expensive. Just saying that the new tech really isn't outperforming the old tech. More comfortable and good for the ease of mind, maybe. But faster? Not at all.
It will be a better climber....but what percentage of your rides are spent climbing? If the climbing bike is marginally faster on 10% of the ride that is going uphill and the other bike is marginally faster on the other 90% of the ride...which one wins?
Push the new supersix to the limit and you won't be long realising that it's a beast. It's the best handling bike I've ridden. He's showing two different bikes there. A new high mod with etap and light wheels is lighter than most other offerings out there with regards modern bikes.
The "old" Cannondale design were more aesthetically pleasing. I remember seeing a CAAD13 in person and I've probably never seen anything as ugly before.
Do a video on the supersix Evo v the CAAD 13 with the same tyre width ( 25 - 28 ) and the same groupset or as close as possible to ultegra/105. Swop the wheelsets around so that both bikes can be compared on the same rubber.. Genuine request..Thanks David.
When talking about weight you did mention it was not an apples to apples since one was Red and the other Ultegra. However when it came to smoothness and speed no wo words about the deep dish vs the shallower old rims. I do own a 2014 and 2020 (rim brake version both since Cannondale release the latest model with 105 rim brake too). And I would ride the old one every day over the latest, although there are still some minor improvements at super high speeds
Had a creak day one, went back to LBS, lubed and never heard it again 11K miles plus later 🤔. Hope that wasn't the reason you moved off what has been for me such a great bike!
2021 super6's with setup like shown look like mamil chariot. Just bad. Older ones even with included conical spacer were much slimer. Front if not remotly slamed looks disproportional imho.
My next bike in the next 4-6 months is either going to be this or a Scott addict RC. Not sure which version of the RC but if you could choose one, which would you go with? Thanks in advance.
While I'm a disc brake fan, for a summer bike on decent roads, I'd go for a lightweight rim brake bike. The SuperSix Evo also has the classic geometry.......
Original one is a thing of beauty.
💯
+1
Yes, but personally I can do without the busy Formula 1 2012 styling.
I own and still ride my 10 year old SuSi Evo equipped with a 9000 Dura Ace and a Rotor 3D+ with P2M powermeter. To bring it to a UCI-legal weight, I use a 5 year old DT Swiss RRC 65 wheelset with tubeless mounted 25 mm tyres. What can I say ... with this setup, I just won the hilly gran fondo world championships in Trento. Going over the last top along with the two other riders, I could distance them in the last, very technincal descent to Trento. Some people truely think that this cannot be possible. Second place in my age group also went to a Cannondale SuSi, although in a somewhat later evolution, but still with rim brakes. Third place went to a rider with a disc brake bike - after hitting the deck due to a braking error in one of the hairpin curves.
I've got one of the last old SSEVO's (Green/black team frame from 2017) with Di2, disc brakes, carbon wheels and the lightweight Cannondale Hollowgram crankset. It's exactly on the UCI weight limit of 6.8kgs. I've compared it against a whole load of newer "aero" bikes (3T Strada, Cevello S5, Scott Foil) just to name a few and none got anywhere close to the performance of the SSEVO around the same 30 mile course through the Chilterns. The comfort you get on the SSEVO is also extremely good plus it has that classic look. Comfort wise the 3T Strada was also very good. What many forget to mention is that aero only starts working above a certain speed and unless you are a competition cyclist you probably won't gain any benefit. Its just more marketing to sell bicycles...
Agree with all of the above, would take the old Evo every day of the week. Pretty sure it was somewhere around 15mph that aero came more into play, so in theory unless you're just doing hill climbs there should be *a* difference. Whether that's beneficial to an amateur is infinitely debatable - as somebody who rides in shorts and t-shirt I'd say no.
The old ssevo is a legend. The new one had absolutely lost its charm looking like the rest of the bikes out there. 10 years from now, I could only see the old ssevo being valued as a collector's item and the new one, forgotten in time.
You're right! Supersix Evo hi-mod is legend. Most superlight bikes are on that frame. Its some like F40 on supercars. All current bikes SL7, ssevo, SLR01 look almost the same🙄
i will keep my ssevo 2019 forever
@@callistof1I hope you are right, a few months ago I bought a 2012 Supersix Evo hi-mod that looks exactly like the one in the video, with Di2...it is absolutely fabulous...enjoy your riding
I would prefer the S6Evo just for sentimental reasons.
2012 SS Evo was peak carbon road bike. Every bike since has just been very incremental improvements.
The old bike also came in a black inc model without all the graphics. Even lighter! New bike weight is crazy!
Call me old fashioned but I’m a sucker for that traditional triangle frame. Take the old one any day.
I ride a 2018 Cannondale CAAD 12.
An absolute thing of beauty to look at, and to ride. Thanks for your great comparisons and keep the videos up.
Just sold my 2012 Supersix EVO for a 2022 Supersix EVO. While the newer bike rides smooth, I have yet to beat any of my older strava times.
Keep in mind that you're 10 years older right 😎🤣
this is what ive been trying to look for . are the bikes really any faster now ?!
@@RevelCris He used the word "Better" but provided no quantitative measurement to support any conclusion.
I wish Thomas made this video
@@SurpriseMeJT I believe that bikes have made advancements in terms of both speed and comfort in the last 10 years - we're probably not talking about massive changes....like for the average person who can't ride at 45 km/h we're talking about maybe a minute or 2 per hour of riding at 30 km/h...or something in that magnitude - but maybe also being able to offer a more comfortable ride. David is making his living off bike videos and being given access by the manufacturers to some of their top end spec is a very big part of his work. He pretty much has to say that the new bikes are better....at the risk of losing access to the gear and not being able to make his content.
I have a 2015 S Six Sagan limited edition, full sram red, Metron 55’s and it weighs 6.4kg with pedals, it really is awesome and looks fab.
In my opinion the comparison should have been done with same wheel profile depth, i think it’s where the most aero differences come from
Thats what I thought. Every comparison I see on TH-cam the old supersix has a shitty wheelset on.
2010: WE ARE CANNONDALE
2022: have fun finding branding
Absolutely the tire size makes the difference!!!! Otherwise, no diff in the carbon or the shapes. Rim brakes work perfectly well for us everyday riders too. I’ll stick with my Cervelo R3 rim brake bike which has carried me perfectly fine and comfy for over 40,000 miles. Yeah it was a big investment back then but still keeps paying back it’s investments!! Great vid by the way
Hi. What year is your R3?
the new Cannondale bikes look so boring, the old one looks so much better. I actually like the EF version currently in the tdf.
I am just gonna say it: Disc brakes pretty much negate 10 years of development of the bicycles.
Is the new frame more aerodynamic? Yes it is. Does it compensate for aero penalty of the disc brakes? I am not so sure. Put nice deep wheels with 23 mm tires on the old one and I bet it would be faster. Disc brakes and wide tires are for gravel.
couldn't disagree more regarding ride quality, I have both a 2016 HM and 2020 HM, 2016 much smoother ride. I do agree the 2020 is faster but that may be more the wheels than anything else.
Yep I've ridden 2 older Cannondales and they are the smoothest bikes I've ridden. Wheels and tyres are the difference in this review
Thank you!
As always a wonderful presentation David with a real human connection to the subject. I own/love a 2019 rim brake Evo Ultegra--pared back graphics and a shocking red-orange color.with a Hollowgram crank, some DT Swiss PR 1400 oxic wheels (and the lovely 240S hubs)--these parts and some other swap outs (saddle, bars, and stem) gave me a 7.4kg bike for less that $4K. The ride is superb and the handling is sublime--sure--I get overtaken on long flat stretches, but uphill, downhill, and through curves I catch up. The one thing I can't catch up to is the price of a new bike.
I love your comment. The best bikes are those that have been lovingly and cleverly modified by their owners over the years. In my oppinion this process is a key part of racing cycling.
I have both of these bikes and one thing not mentioned is, there is definitely a familiar feeling when I first tested the new one. Put lots of km’s on the 2012 and the 2020 just felt right. They are both great bikes and love riding each of them.
The new bike may be better but the reality is that to buy one you would need to spend 5x as much, at least where I live.
I’d be interested in a comparison over the same course at a set power. How they feel is subjective. In reality the newer bike will be about 3-5% faster which is not much for an extra £4000. New bikes might be good but they’re not good value.
At this point in road bike evolution, and current state of aero and materials science, we are dealing with an exponential return curve. Over time, you'll spend more and more money (already approaching ridiculous values) to acquire less and less of incremental gains.
For the pro, no problem, as they aren't footing the bill.
For the hardcore amateur, perhaps - road cycling is a vice after all. At least in a money-sink sense.
--> Should have taken up gardening, or birdwatching.
@@johnfaustus1 Birdwatching?? Have you seen the price of a top end Swarovski Spotting Scope! 😅
@@rob-c. Ha.
I ride a 2012 SSE Ultimate right now. I love it.
I'm sorry David but the old one is by far the best new evo hasn't a patch on the old one it great video.
The fact that you can buy the old supersix EVO for less than 2k $ used, and can do 100% of your maintenance yourself are enough for me to choose the old one over the new one any day of the week.
The price factor should have been a topic in this video, extremely relevant to your audience.
This bike looks so much better with “regular” seat stays.
Standard seat stays just look more correct than dropped ones. I can't help but think that the dropped seat stays are little more than a purely aesthetic design that's trendy right now. Nothing more, nothing less.
It's the simplistic beauty of a diamond frame.
Finish on the new one is lovely, technology makes a big difference too but I still prefer the classic rear triangle over the dropped seat stays.
I just switched to a Trek Domane AL5 after riding a Trek 1.5 series for like 11-12 years.....my speed/power is pretty much identical BUT the ride is sooo much smoother. The only real advantage i've noticed in the new bike is the tire clearance. Riding on 32c tires after riding on 23c or 25c for over a decade makes a HUGE difference for me.
I knew from the title/thumbnail this video would be a banger and it didn't disappoint!
Your old Supersix is 👌🏻.
This new pure looking Cannondale looks awesome. I want that!
I still love my “old” 2017 SuperSix EVO HM which I build it at 14lbs and recently got me a 2022 SuperSix EVO SE for the graveler/adventure rides on 700x45c tires. Other than that I wouldn’t have upgraded to the standard 2022 EVO. Nope, no thanks.
I’ve just moved from a 1998 105 equipped Bottechia to a 105 equipped Giant TCR. The difference is nothing short of astonishing in the weight, road feel, brakes and aerodynamics. Obviously I’m 24 years older too but I’m smashing my PBs all over the place.
ride them both up a 10km 7% climb at consistent watts and see which one is faster.
The longest climb in England is 9km and 3% average gradient.
@@ChrisYTube82 are you talking about Applecross or great Dum Fell?
Cragg Vale is said to be England's longest continuous climb at 8.6km...
@@NewPolishScientist as David says, Cragg Vale.
If you were competing in a hill climbing comp then for sure the lighter bike would be an advantage. But even if you have a 10km climb in an 80km ride - the aero bike will gain back with interest on the other 70km what it lost on the 10km of climbing.
I wholeheartedly agree with your Supersix assessment. I have 3 of them. 2 HM's similar to yours and a non HM and still love them today. I love the classic look of them. Have it refinished with a beautiful coat of fresh paint in your favorite color and enjoy. But... I found out the hard way, you're not going over 25c tires with narrower rims. Forget about wide rims. I had to remove the wide Zipp's I installed with 25c tires (blew out to 28!), because the tires started to rub the inside of the chainstays
Did you use michelin tires?
Sounds like rim brakes + aero would be the answer!
Breaking performance far superior with disc brakes though
@@DigitalB11 not far superior, just a little, unless you are doing extended descents then its nice to have a little more pad durability even though its also marginal. the real benefit from discs is you get to maintain your wheels less often as you should, so that eventually your tires rub your frame versus the brake pads.
@@DigitalB11 For mtn bikes. You don't need all that braking power to lock up on the road.
If you put deep section wheels like the new bike onto the old bike I'm pretty sure the 10 year old will out perform the new one up hills and any terrain, most of the aero gains are through the deep section wheels.
For sure some of it is in the wheels, but the frame makes a big difference as well. That would be a great test...but remember that putting deep section wheels on the older SSEVO would cut into the weight differential
@@chrisgilligan4968 not really because you can buy 40mm deep and weigh 1260 grams so it will be even lighter, don't forget its rim break so a lot lighter and more aero
@@fernandodisola6675 The bike design is more aero. It is capable of taking wider rims which take wider tires run at lower pressures which have been shown to produce lower rolling resistance.
Remember that the weight of the bike makes up a small percentage of the "system" of bike and rider. If the average rider weighs 72 kg - then the light bike total system weight is 80kg and the heavy bike is 81kg....it really doesn't make as much of a difference as you'd think.
Maybe you're right - I don't have the resources to go and buy all this stuff myself to test it out. The most important part is to get out there and ride.
@@chrisgilligan4968 to be quite honest i run a 28mm tyre at 100psi and tried a lower pressure at 70 psi, I found that running a t 100psi was so much faster than a lower pressure I thought running a lower i would had a better rolling resistance but not so a higher pressure definitely worked a lot better don't know why?
@@fernandodisola6675 If you ride on incredibly smooth roads then higher pressure is better. The gains in rolling resistance come when the roads are rough and the lower pressure absorbs the imperfections better and keeps the wheel turning more efficiently instead of bumping up and down. I'm currently running 25's at about 80 psi. It helps with comfort - don't know if it would be faster at higher pressure, and haven't tried 28's yet. Although with the wheels I have, the 25's stretch out close to 28 due to the internal width of the rim.
I have the 2012 HM SuperSix EVO, Liquigas team edition (SRAM Red components in green on the levers, frame is white and green colorway). I love the bike. I do wish it had clearance for wider tires but otherwise I am completely satisfied with it. I have had 10 years of great riding with it and hope to have many more. I don't care for the look of the new, minimalistic aero road bikes - they seem sterile and boring to me. I do appreciate disc brakes (have them on my two MTBs and my gravel bike) but the rim brakes are just fine on the EVO and I appreciate the simplicity and ease of maintenance with those brakes and the external cables and mechanical gears since I try to do all of my own bike mech work. I might be tempted by the new EVO if I ever rode one, so I will resist temptation by happily riding my 10 year old bike :)
Yeah disc brakes a wayyy better dude, I love skidding to a stop and burning a flat spot into my tires. Makes for a great ride
Cannondale pricing now is too high when compared with Giant, for the same benefits.
Bought my 2015 6800 Ultegra Evo for £1300 in the sale, comparable model today is a good few thousand more, disproportionate.
Giant won the day for me on quality/value, will keep the old Evo and enjoy on the odd day.
Old Cannondale looks fantastic
The very best supersix evo is the rim brake EVO 2 (2016 to 2019). As light as the evo 1 in this video but with extra room for wider tires which makes it as comfortable as the evo 3 in this video. Ride quality of the evo 2 is also better than the evo 3. I recommend a follow up video where you compare an evo 2 against these two. Btw, there was an evo 2 with disk brakes too (but rim brake bikes have a nimbler better ride quality)
It's all well and good to say that the new bike feels faster....would have been nice to see a real world test of some sort. Ride a 30 km loop with some hills, flats, into wind on both bikes at the same power output and see which one is faster. All the same, thanks for the look down memory lane!!
You can’t compare the old bike with shallow aluminium wheels and 25s then hop on the new one with deep section carbon wheels with 28s and say it’s smoother and faster, it’s just nonsense! The old bike is legendary and a thing of beauty. The new one is just a carbon copy of every other dull as dishwater frame on the market! 2011-2016 was the peak of bike design and manufacturing. It’s all gone down hill from there! Give me the old evo any day of the week!
A super well-done, and shrewdly-worded video. Can't help but laugh@ "...the aero improvements of this bike are noticeable straightaway! Even at low speeds..." 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Gimme the old one any day.
I love the old loud graphics, I like the style too one of the reasons I like the aurum bikes, if only I could afford one.
As someone who owns a 2014 SuperSix and is considering buying a new bike this video could not have come at a better time!
IDGAF... An older SSEvo with Sram Red 10 sp is still a dream build of mine. Such a good looking bike!
I really liked this video David! Great comparison! Love the blue with that wheel and tire spec, looks great!😎
I say have them all!! Haha each bike is special for different reasons. As a commuter performance is something to consider for sure but I also commute because I love being on the bike. And the ability to pick a different bike when the mood strikes is awesome. I have a run of the mill cannondale quick for a daily work hoarse but if I feeling my oats, it’s my specialized allez epic from around 1992. Early, lugged carbon tubed frame that is just a blast to ride! Love the content! Keep up the good work 👍
A much better question is "Is it 5x better?" I mean even adjusted for inflation the price of a top end bike now is way over double what it was 10 years ago. 30 watts faster frame? I doubt it. Wheels including maybe. Either way better other get/stick with an old bike and get a skinsuit/Th bike if going fast solo is your thing. In a group ride aerodynamics are not even relevant.
Still remember my first Peugeot bike ( $125 USD) and a rich kid’s Le Jeune with Campy groupset ($600 USD)back in 70s. Vintage bikes now, fyi…I am riding a knockoff Pinarello Dogma F12 . Thanks David.👍👍👍
Also the riding position of modern bikes is much more upright with higher stack heights. Making pro bikes more comfortable for the average rider with money to splash. 👍 Great video
I got me a 2011 supersix, at that time there was no super six evo or hi mod, im at 17 lbs and there are many components to upgrade, pretty happy
Personally I'd have the 2012 by choice all day long.
I ride and own Cannondale caad5 slice carbon, hand made in USA. Dura ace shifter and Cosmic wheel set. It's beauty and riding is really great. Thanks for comparison video. 🚴🏽♂️
I prefer the old one. No thief is interested in 10 year old tech. Which is kind of sad, all my bicycle related purchases heavily revolve around: "Will a thief want to rob this?" So I have the highest spec thing that I can find, that's not super flashy.
You live in London or what?
Thanks David, another great video. That’s exactly the bike i have my eye on (if i can get one). I’ll be coming off a 7yo giant defy.
Thank god for this video, been wanting opinions on this as a Dale'r, cant say much abt the new evos but it seems like im more drawn to the older Dales :)
Sweet. Love your "then and now" reviews. Looking forward to a local seaside loop later on my 2011 Spec Roubaix SL3 rim brake ride. Yep, still has its smooth ride quality and doesn't require a bleed kit. 😉 Seriously though, prices today ***cough***. Thank goodness for trickle down tech. 👍
Glad you like them!
Same bike here mate! Took mine for a good morning out at the Trough of Bowland up in Lancs yesterday :)
@@joebarrow4074 #savethezertzinsert ;)
@@joebarrow4074 No way! Sounds a good ride, the old bikes still got it :)
@@davidarthur Oh definitely yes David. My old legs on the other hand! :)
I have a 2016 supersix hi-mod dura ace spec, I hoped the review would be objective . Example same road same watts on same road , what is is the speed difference between generations? the carbon tube seat post has flex giving comfort on previous gen. The disc rim debate has been shown to not showing a great distance in stopping distance. Love to see the review run again with more tests incorporated
Around 9th minute the narative about how smooth the new bike is... Can't help noticing how the voice is vibrating from the 'improved comfort' and the road buzz...
I prefer the original ssevo. Better style for sure. I give the 2020 a Nice. The original is a Super Nice.
The only thing better on new new Supersix is the marketing BS...😏
Great video David!
Could you do a timed comparison in a course to measure the real performance difference at equal power?
And do the ride drafting in a pack.
That was the best bike I've had yet!
I was all ready to look on eBay for an old Supersix Evo as a great, lightweight bike or frame option and then you had to test the new one! Looks like I’ll have to do a bit more saving-up! 🤣
go for the classic, way better in different areas
Agree! The old Evo is way better!
@@BikeLife154 Other than climbing hills greater than 6% - the new bike...even at 1kg heavier should be the faster overall bike. The aero savings with the tube designs and internal cabling and the rolling resistance benefits of wider tires at lower pressures - will almost certainly well overtake the marginal losses on the climbing portions of a regular ride....unless you are riding in the mountains.
@@chrisgilligan4968 let’s face it, the majority of riders are not just riding down hills or on the flat. I climbed 115,000 meters last year and I would never want to do that on that new evo! Put some Carbon wheels on the old evo and you will be up with that new bike while having a much nicer looking bike!
@@BikeLife154 The aesthetic is a personal thing. I'm fairly new to riding later in life. I'm not drawn to the "classic" style of the older bikes.
From purely a weight standpoint, you're talking about 1kg on the bike...but the weight is of the system - bike and rider. So if a typical rider weighs 72kg give or take - the difference in the system weight between the 2 is 80kg for the light bike and 81kg for the heavy bike.
If you rode 4 times per week on average, your 115000 m of climbing breaks down to about 550 m per ride - not something the weight savings is going to make a huge difference on.
At the end of the day - the important thing is to have a bike that you enjoy from a looks, ride quality and performance standpoint so that you keep getting out there and riding.
Thought body position was a bigger determining factor than frame? Also the newer bike has Deeper wheels how would the older bike do with deeper wheels?
Cracking review, love both the bikes, want a new one for sure! Where are you riding ? Looks like the New Forest?
Thanks Keith. It was down in the Purbecks in Dorset. Not an area I know that well but just lovely, need to go back to do some more exploring
Nice video! Wouldn’t trade in my 2016 Cannondale SuperSix Hi-mod Evo with rim brakes for that new one & a pot of 💰. Okay maybe for a big pot of gold. : )
would of liked a timed loop between the two, i think the old one plus an espresso pre-ride is still faster than the newer one.
Great comparison David. I recently upgraded from a 2013 model bike to a 2021 model and the difference is mind-blowing. Much more comfort, but also more responsive. That was a confusing feeling at first, a bike that cushions the bumps but also rips when you sprint. Disc brakes are also so much better, no question. Add in electronic gears and the bikes are worlds apart.
Switch wheels on the bikes... and you're opinion will likely change. How much have speeds increased in the pro peloton in the last 10 years? :)
Too bad you were out riding both bikes but did not seize the opportunity to ride both at the same speed on the same stretch of road and see if you really saved 30 Watts as claimed!! Why not??? :)) Nice marketing shilling while trying to keep a somewhat neutral outlook. Yes lads, the cycling industry promises that once the next bike models come out even more aero and stiffer and more comfortable than the previous model, everyone will be holding 25mph/40kph by just pushing 100 watts. A real keen performance and practicality oriented rider will take the original supersix evo any day every day.
the old ones are so much cooler. 2010 ish era bikes are the peak of road bikes.
Great video 👍
Glad you enjoyed it Mark :)
in 2016 was debating between Tarmac Expert and Super6 Evo.....purchased the Tarmac Expert but still to this day wanted that Super6 Evo as my second bike. Not a fan of the current version.
I do love new bikes, but I think for the average rider, weight (especially your own weight) is almost certainly a more important factor than aerodynamics if you're trying to ride a bit faster. Aero designs make a big difference if you're going nearly as fast as a professional rider, but most people don't ride at sustained speeds of 40 km/h, even on flat roads. If they're over 35 years old, they're probably riding in a more comfortable riding posture most of the time anyway, which kind of negates the aero benefits of more aggressive bike designs.
actually the two are connected, if you have some belly it's harder to get low on your bike which is the most important aerodynamic component in any bike, the rider and by a lot!!
Still using a 2012 Scott CR-1 Team bike with 105 group set. Very comfortable bike still!
Stefan Kirchmaier just won the Marmotte, on a rim brake Cannondale with mechanical SRAM (red) and mavic CCU full carbon wheels. 3rd in the GC rode a Specialized (SL6?) rim brake with low carbon wheels. From their timings, the rim brakes + carbon wheels didn't slow them down on the downhills one second (to the contrary) compared to most competitors on overweight disc bikes twice as expensive. Just saying that the new tech really isn't outperforming the old tech. More comfortable and good for the ease of mind, maybe. But faster? Not at all.
From the comments, most prefer the original for looks, cost, and performance. It's not really a surprise.
Great vid Mate. But I think if the road goes vertical the old Evo will be more responsive..
It will be a better climber....but what percentage of your rides are spent climbing? If the climbing bike is marginally faster on 10% of the ride that is going uphill and the other bike is marginally faster on the other 90% of the ride...which one wins?
Only one winner on looks ❤️
Push the new supersix to the limit and you won't be long realising that it's a beast. It's the best handling bike I've ridden. He's showing two different bikes there. A new high mod with etap and light wheels is lighter than most other offerings out there with regards modern bikes.
The "old" Cannondale design were more aesthetically pleasing. I remember seeing a CAAD13 in person and I've probably never seen anything as ugly before.
Classic SS Evo is an all-time great frame. Perfect geometry, super light and sexy. Just pure sexy, and you can run rim brakes too!
Do a video on the supersix Evo v the CAAD 13 with the same tyre width ( 25 - 28 ) and the same
groupset or as close as possible to ultegra/105. Swop the wheelsets around so that both bikes
can be compared on the same rubber.. Genuine request..Thanks David.
When talking about weight you did mention it was not an apples to apples since one was Red and the other Ultegra. However when it came to smoothness and speed no wo words about the deep dish vs the shallower old rims. I do own a 2014 and 2020 (rim brake version both since Cannondale release the latest model with 105 rim brake too). And I would ride the old one every day over the latest, although there are still some minor improvements at super high speeds
I'm a sucker for round tubes and zero aero, did have a Supersix now gotta Aethos, both awesome
I had a 2020 Supersix Evo. Good bike but the internal seatpost clamp was an absolute nightmare. Sometimes the creaking was unbearable.
Had a creak day one, went back to LBS, lubed and never heard it again 11K miles plus later 🤔. Hope that wasn't the reason you moved off what has been for me such a great bike!
Have you tried a carbon gripper?
Yes it was plenty of carbon gripper that solved the problem….finally. The joy of a silent bike !
Now you know! It is a must have to avoid creaking, on any bike
How do you know it is 30W faster?
Exactly. 30 Watts just from a frame? No way. I call total bullshit. :-) That must've come from Mr Marketing at Cannondale.
Both are engineering art.
I’d take the old one. 🔥
The old one looks much better.
2021 super6's with setup like shown look like mamil chariot. Just bad. Older ones even with included conical spacer were much slimer. Front if not remotly slamed looks disproportional imho.
"Smashing Bike"!
Funnily enough just been riding my 2012 evo ultimate great bike but no comparison to my system six
Supersix 2012 is a piece of art !!!!
In the looks department I prefer the retro model.
I wish you could try again in the Alps, and see....
Hi David, would you say the new Supersix you teste is a comfortable as the Synapse himod that you had for long time? Thanks
of course 2012 model.classic bike beautiful.
My next bike in the next 4-6 months is either going to be this or a Scott addict RC. Not sure which version of the RC but if you could choose one, which would you go with? Thanks in advance.
Can you tell the difference in the ride quality between the regular EVO and the Hi Mod?
While I'm a disc brake fan, for a summer bike on decent roads, I'd go for a lightweight rim brake bike. The SuperSix Evo also has the classic geometry.......