Anglicans and Methodists: Aligning on the Left & Right?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- Something interesting is happening on the American religious landscape, with left-leaning and right-leaning denominations joining arms together. What is happening between the Anglican and Methodist traditions might be emblematic of our culture somewhat organically figuring these things out by market forces...
Links:
Article on Episcopal Bishops recommending full communion w/ UMC - episcopalnewsservice.org/2024... - บันเทิง
I pray every day for traditional Methodist's to return to their roots and reunite with orthodox Anglicans.
Me too! Dee
This seems to confirm what I’ve believed would happen all along. Just to survive, I foresaw that the progressive denominations as they shrink would come together. Conversely, I believe that if the current divide between the increasingly paganized culture and the orthodox denominations continues on it’s current trajectory, I can see where at some time in the future, they too, will be drawn together. And why not? This would be in accord with God’s will.
At 2:13 yes indeed. I've been following the move of various churches to enter into full communion with each other for 30 years, something that I think should have been done long ago, only to see it suddenly happen between the UMC and Episcopal church over after both had veered to the left. This creates the false impression that the concept is somehow tied to liberalism. At 4:58 yes a coming together would be wonderful.
Yes, ecumenism as a concept has largely been taken over by the left. Like all biblical concepts, they adopt/create a counterfeit version of it and then make it unpalatable to those who want to follow the bible but don't want to look anything like the liberals. Category errors cause all sort of spiritual harm. I see this more and more...
This is so similar to what the Australian Methodist church did in the 70’s when they united with the Congregationalist and the Presbyterians to create the Uniting Church in Australia. They are now completely progressive and run a lesbian and also the fastest dying church in the country.
Wow. I had no idea. It makes sense I suppose, because the more liberal churches become the more generic they are, having less concrete doctrine to differentiate them. Here in the USA over the years quite a few churches have folded in with the Unitarian Universalist church, perhaps that's what will happen one day with the liberal Methodist and Episcopal churches.
Hey - as a Wesleyan who is now in the Anglican Church - I’m really looking forward to the conversation coming in a few days. I was blessed to attend the Provincial Assembly last week, and it was amazing. The opening and closing Eucharist services were pretty “high“ by Methodist standards (think incense and a youth boys choir), but actually not quite as “high“ as what you will find in some Anglican churches. But even that included some contemporary praise songs and opportunity for people to receive prayer and laying on of hands from various prayer warriors. We actually had to sing one song twice like at a Baptist revival service, to give them more time to pray with people. The worship times at the beginning of the plenary sessions Used a big screen and a mix of old hymns and contemporary songs and some songs that were contemporary back in the 80s during the Charismatic renewal.
Last week I saw a podcast generated from the Provincial Assembly of two representatives of what they called "the young Anglicans". One was a former Southern Baptist and one had been Jewish. They stated they had been drawn to the ACNA by the BCP and "High Church".
@@thomhobs Link to it?
@@DrGero15 th-cam.com/video/UNI3KeMVYo0/w-d-xo.html
It's fascinating... This is a clear example where "agenda" trumps "theology." When the UMC approved allowing Deacons to celebrate the Sacraments in Charlotte, I figured TEC (The Episcopal Church) would strenuously react...especially the House of Bishops. I figured it might even be a "deal breaker." But the (so called) "Progressive Agenda" is bigger than theology and ecclesiology.
I didn't even think of that. Yes, you're right, that is fascinating.
I think the Catholic church will welcome all who want to follow traditional Christian beliefs.
My fear is the Global Methodist Church will just head off path eventually too. Not sure it is wise to be joining forces with any groups that may take it in the wrong direction.
Wow. I would beg conservative Methodists to NOT join with the Anglican Church, retain your Methodist witness, preach with Holy Ghost fire as did Methodists in the past. I do understand that Wesley was an Anglican minister, but as he became increasingly "low church" and preached to those the Anglican church frowned on, he preached free grace, while the Anglican church, tho officially Calvinist, preached works. (Anglican theology is about as clear as mud, much like Lutheranism) He actually did leave the Anglican Church when he began ordaining ministers without their authority. (This is called "Ordination is separation") Also, how can Methodists affirm the 39 Articles which are highly calvinistic? I have great admiration for ACNA and have spoken in some of their churches, but the Methodists are unique. There have never been altar calls/invitations and campmeetings, revivals, etc in an Anglican Church, and Methodism was known for these practices. There are many in ACNA who ignore the 39 Articles, and in some ways I am glad, but in other ways, if you ignore your own church's official teaching, isnt that what got them into liberalism in the first place?. If Methodists feel the need to "link arms" with others, let them link arms with the Cumberland Presbyterians, who retain many distinctives like Methodists but they are not Calvinists. They still have the "sacraments", infant baptism etc. They also have a history of revivalism and campmeetings like the Methodists, and were born out of Second Great Awakening, and left the dead mainline Presbyterian Church, ordaining their own clergy as Wesley did. There are quite a few members of their clergy that were formerly UM ministers. The Cumberland Presbyterians do hold to eternal security, like the Baptists, but they are very much like Methodists on the liturgical spectrum, and believe general atonement. Wesley would roll over in his grave at the sight of a Methodist minister being called "priest" or wearing a chasuble and slinging incense.
I think you might be mistaken about Wesley's preferences for orthodox worship service style and liturgy. I don't think low church was a preference, it was simply a necessity due to economics of the situation he found himself in. But I could be wrong about that. I am kind of a new Methodist so I am just learning about Wesley's history and reading his sermons and notes. I will study it further.
@@deej7928 If you look at Wesley's preaching, he always preached in places the Church of England thought to be "undesirable" and the outdoor venues he preached at whether they be campmeetings or a field preaching, he obviously thought the unconverted or cold hearted would not be "warmed" in a liturgical setting. He did make remarks that "seem" to us to convey an affinity for high church worship, BUT you must take that in the context in which he lived. Th Anglican Church at that time was "high church" in his day, but when compared to todays standard, it was more "middle" church. The Anglican church was much more low church back then than they are today. It was the Oxford Movement in the 1840's that moved the Anglicans towards high liturgy. Wesley would have never worn a chasuble or mitre or burned incense. Remember that it was the Anglican Church that even banned Christmas celebrations for a while. If you want a glimpse of how Wesley may have preached, watch some videos of Ian Parsley, a Free Presbyterian from Northern Ireland. He wear clerical garb and has a look of formality, but preaches like a Pentecostal. I think both Wesley and Whitefield may have preached in a similar fashion. The Methodistsmost certainly moved even further into the low church style as the denomination formed. And it was that style that grew the Methodist Church into the largest Protestant church in America, until the Baptists overtook them in the late 1960's. I beleive their decline was a direct result of liberalism and formalism. Liberals love ritual and formality, because they can have "unity" around liturgy, while allowing heretical views to prevail. this is now the case of most of Anglicanism, just lookat the Episcopal Church. Where there is no freedom of the Spirit, there is no Spirit
@@caman171 oh. I thought Wesley preached outdoors because he was barred from preaching his upgraded holiness message indoors, not because he did not like high-church style of service. I can see I'm going to need to do some more in depth study.
@@deej7928 No you are correct, the Anglican church frowned on the lower classes, which makes no sense if you are the official National church. But they definitely did not like the lower classes coming to church in their dirty clothes from the mines etc. So Wesley went to them. Remember that "high church" was defined differently back then than it is today. Communion was served only once a month, and the average service consisted of singing, a sermon, and prayer from the Book of Common Prayer. There was no processional carrying a crucifix, no fancy vestments, no incense, no genuflecting, etc like there is now in Anglican churches. But for Wesleys time it was "high church". Thats where the confusion comes in. After the Oxford Movement, Anglicans moved toward a more Catholic liturgy with all the smells and bells, with some even praying the rosary and praying to Mary and other saints. they are called Anglo-Catholics. Wesley would have been very uncomfortable in such a setting