I have participated in quite a few blind cable tests. Always considered myself one of the golden ears. The test that made the biggest impression on me was one where 11 of us listened to 5 sets of cables from 30 bucks/one metre pair to $2000/one meter pair. Unlike a blind test, the administrator announced which cable was being used. To quickly summarize, the majority of the group (me included) selected the $2000 pair as clearly the best sounding of the five. No surprise, right? Well, it turned out that NO cables were switched. The $30 pair was in place the entire time. IOW, there was no actual change in sound quality. The improvement that we all "clearly heard" was, as they say, "all in our heads." That test changed me from a believer in exotic cables to a believer in the power of suggestion and marketing. ;)
glad to see recognition of the established science of how human hearing works. the knowledge that human hearing is only subjective would eliminate a lot the bad for the hobby snake oil products. of course, some people will desire to buy more stuff no matter what .
@@wa2368 that's a pretty rude statement for not knowing the people involved . are you trying to deflect the fact you bought to fulfill a desire without first knowing how human hearing works to gratify expectations of expected results.
You would fail a blind test as well. In fact there was a blind test done with people that have good ears for audio between cables and and old copper coat hanger. The result was inconclusive but showed a slight preference towards the coat hanger vs expensive cables. As some who studies electrical engineering, my opinion is to get the largest gauge stranded wire your system can take of oxygen free copper with as high a strand count as possible 300+. I'd put that up against any price exotic material cable out there. @@wa2368
I have done lots of BLIND A/B testing with high-end cable gear over the years and in every case the "expert" could not consistantly pick the cheap from expensive....even trained musicians failed to hear a statistical difference.
Exactly. Some cheap interconnects may be susceptible to RF/EMI interference or of a higher capacitance which may affect their sound over longer distance, but anything of reasonable quality will be sonically equal.
I've had just the opposite but then again I was only using like $300 monsters z series cables. My friends wife actually came out of the room from watching their child yelling at him because she thought he had bought brand new speakers. Some people do hear the difference and some people don't and the people that don't want to believe that some people can.
I believe you, but you're not testing for anything. The whole test is fake. You need to test for something real, and it has to be objective. If you set up a test that can produce usable results, you need to do it scientifically. I'm not trying to be mean or disrespectful, but if I asked you to give me a provable way that you can label a piece of gear cheap or expensive, you can't do it. Its impossible. I'm all for blind testing. I've set up many high quality blind tests over the years, and you can't begin until you answer 2 questions. 1. What are you testing for? 2. And why? You have to start with something real if you want to get real results.
Not a big fan of DB testing. I understand the rational but I think it takes about a week to evaluate a cable- put on your favorite music that you know well. Pay attention to soundstage and inner detail which I think is one of the more apparent distinctions of high end cable. At first you will probably notice the cable sounds "different" and further evaluation to determine if it is in fact better. Bottom line is: Do you trust your ears or not?
@@dwightballard3868 I suggest you watch Andrew Robinsons video "Three Hi-Fi Experiences That CHANGED Me FOREVER" where he talks about industry professionals failing the DB tests at Harman, even some for products they had designed themsevles. If they are failing said tests, what does that say about this hobby. And no, you probably shouldn't trust your ears outside of said tests. You can trust your emotional attachement to the music, but everything else is tied to lesser instincts that are easily duped and biased.
@@dwightballard3868 A test doesn't have to mean picking out which you like more, it's establishing whether you can pick out differences without the huge crutch of knowing what you're listening to. One needs the scientific method to properly establish facts. It's not without reason that there's a field of psychology studying unintentional biases and all similar things. Snake oil salesmen usually react negatively to the idea of properly adhering to scientific methods though.
You can't do double blind in audio, because of psychoacoustical reasons. But yes, you can do blind AB and I personally think it would enough to justify the better equipment.
The best answer I’ve EVER heard to that cable question. A thoughtful response. Same would be, for example, speakers. Are $100,000/pair gonna sound great? You betcha! Are they worth it? Heaven’s no. As for me, I wouldn’t even spend $20,000/pair.
@Douglas Blake You are probably right but if I was a millionaire I'd certainly get those high end cables! The only way to find out whether it works or not is to try it out. Some people's hobby is collect cars, painting etc my hobby would be collecting cables.
Reality kicks in immediately on expensive purchases when the product gets home too because the realization sets in that someone in your house can break it or mess with it and now your 10k-20k product is a paperweight and reminder that you fucked up.
2021 Audioquest pricing guide.....they offer a $87,800/pair speaker cable option. If I sold these cables I'd have the confidence to subject myself to a blind listening test. Surely I could pick these out of a blind group every single time. It would be so apparent...right? [sarcastic grin]
This has always been purely up to the consumer. There's way too much complaining in hi-fidelity audio over what others are spending. Leave value and expense up to the individual.
Right? Some people run scamming call centers in India, stealing money from the poor grandmas and grandpas around the world. Some other people sell snake oil cables. Can we just let them do what to do and leave value and expense up to the individual?
@Douglas Blake Thanks a lot for taking the time to write this. Too often, I think the « debate » around cables, if there’s one to begin with, is too virtual. Your story is not virtual and it shows how people are getting ripped off by some bad people. Literally scammed and this is frightening. I don’t understand why we don’t have more people being more vocal about this issue. I have a very resolving and quite expensive system, because I truly love music and I value quality. But I have some very « simple » blue jeans cables made out of Canare star quad cable and good connectors. They cost $200, because I needed quite some length. I do research around what I buy, not only because I want to optimize my investment, but also because I value hard work, and honest work. This is why I have Focal speakers with beryllium tweeters, there’s value behind that, real and true value. There is absolutely nothing behind those snake oil cables, it’s beyond crazy, no data, no measurements, nothing. I feel really bad about the state of all this, people spending stupid amount of money just because they can, thus financing some scamming companies while they could support true artisans, not necessarily in audio by the way.
@@Maxime-ho9iv And people buy $50k handbags or watches that are less accurate than a budget smartphone. People like expensive stuff and they will continue to buy it regardless of how it performs.
People really fail to understand how powerful the placebo effect is and how it can effect everything down to flavor of water. You tell somone a bottle of water costs $1000 and they will report it tasting better then the same bottle when you tell them its $1. You tell them a shoe costs $1000 they think its higher quality weither it is or isnt. So many things are in our heads. This is why you should never believe these things till a double blind test is done. If the speaker wires truly are that much better it should be easy to prove. Yet look around. There are almost no blind tests and the few there are are just some guy in thier own basment testing so not a good "blind" test and definitely not a good sample.
We all have a security blanket fallback position we like to use. @thendofit tells himself and others that without double blind tests (which have been done many times in the past) there can be no proof. Ergo it doesn't exist. Still others believe any number of other stories that fit their worldview. Here's an interesting question. What happens when you discover something by accident? Say you begin to notice that every time you use this cable something changes. You didn't do it on purpose. You should started noticing it and nonce it's noticed it is repeatable. Placebo? No. It goes against the definition. Placebos work because you believe they do. Accidental discoveries have zero preconceptions, but happen all the time. Just food for thought.
@Paulmcgowanpsaudio did you not know you were plugging in a $1,000 cord when you used it? Link me to an actull full-on blind test cause i searched around and the examples i found were far from blind. People will notice differences even when there are none. Tests have shown this many times. Further there are plenty of auditory illusions that show that our brains are easily fooled into thinking we are hearing things we are not.
According to Andew Robinson, industry professionals at doubleblind tests at Harman couldn't even pick out speakers they designed themselves consistently. How much harder would it be with cables?
@@harackmw Andrew Robinson uses anecdotal evidence and misconstrues them as facts. Andrew is just a guy with an opinion. (With a large following) Here's my philosophy on cables. If you can't justify the price, learn what makes a good cable and diy. If you can't diy, buy what you can afford and enjoy it.
@@LunarLightLtd1 He worked in the industry as far as I understand, how is that anecdotal evidence? I work in a separate field, and I can tell you no one there thinks DB tests are anecdotal.
I am of the opinion that for digital transmission (i.e. digital audio or HDMI etc.), any cable which is good enough for error-free transmission of the data is good enough. With HDMI, you see any transmission errors as bad pixels on screen, so it is easy to verify. Unless you have to cover extreme distances, a $20 cable will be good enough. For speaker cables, things are different of course. But still, cables which are more expensive than, say, 10% of your speaker price are insane. So, having a $600 pair of speakers with $60 of cables sounds about right to me.
I recommend Blue Jeans Cable as a source. Fast, reliable, and relatively inexpensive compared to most sources. A better question would have been how much of a total AV system should be allocated to cabling.
The signal still has to pass through the regular cheap wires found in every single speaker on the planet so it doesn't matter what you put on the outside, those cheap wires inside don't magically change into something better, can someone please change my mind
I upgraded from '70's Monster cables to AudioQuest medium priced cables ($300) and felt my system sound increased significantly (a curtain opened). Last year, uppgraded to $1550 cables, not much (if anything just a brighter sound) difference....
Monster Cables are the top of the line I'll go on cables in my 12k system. Rega thought me that 25 years ago. If a 1.5k turntable doesn't have expensive cables - it's all bs. Heck I still have some $1.99 RCAs in my system.
yes, yes they did. At the time He'd probably even poo poo a phase null test between the same track pulled pre and post markering if someone had bothered. See techmoan's debunking video on the topic of refracted CD laser light data bullcrap lol
If you have the cheapest(lamp cord) cable and an expensive one.....do a blind test to see if there is that much of a difference. if there isnt, save your money. I had wireworld oasis speaker cables$350 and just wanted to see if there was any difference in the lamp cord cable i had from an old system i didnt use any longer. For the heck of it i hooked the lamp cord up to my bryston and PMC FB1+ speakers and couldnt tell any difference. I sold the wireworlds for a couple hundred and used the money to pay down a credit card---money well spent--now im debt free including mortgage. My stereo sounds fine...dont notice any difference. The only way to improve sound quickly/ easily is to get "better" speakers...then amplification.
I think the commenters that connect the cable price to system price are right. No point paying for the best possible cables on a system that does not have the resolution needed to hear potential differences. I would also like to see blind listening tests with experts, run by a third party, between decent cables and high-end ones on the same system. I doubt they would consistently pick differences between $200 cables and $2000 or even $20,000 cables.
It’s all a gimmick. The only way they would cost so expensive is if they are laminated in Diamond or some other exotic material but in the end, no difference in sound whatsoever compared to much cheaper ones.
@@Bassotronics It has little to do with the cost of manufacturing. It is a case of charge what the market will bear. Very small volume with very high margin. Even then no one getting rich.
You'll be happy to know that I have done some very extensive blind testing, and was able to prove that the differences are real. However, your method wouldn't work. When you conduct a test like that, you need to be testing for something objective. Going by price is meaningless. What happens if the 20k cable goes on sale and now its a 10k cable. What has changed? Nothing. Since you're interested in this type of thing, if you wanted to test for something objective, what would it be, and why?
@@AT-wl9yq How did you test? I have A/B 'd cheap vs better interconnects and found a barely discernible difference that was probably a slight loudness difference rather than an improvement in quality, though that wasn't a blinded approach and I'm no expert.
@@technopsychobedlam You don't have to be an expert. You just have to test for something real, and you can't go by price. For example, a real test would be something like, "Is there an audible difference between copper and silver cables.". That's it. Nothing subjective. If you find there is a difference, then only you can decide if its worth the money. One of the reasons you never want to judge by price, is all other factors being equal, quite often you'll prefer the sound of copper over silver in certain applications. There's nothing wrong with liking a less expensive cable better. Its great when that happens. You also have to be able to accept the truth. Honestly, don't want to conduct a fair test because they don't want to be wrong. They just want to win an argument. I'm not accusing you, just in general.
I got some good deals on those ‘expensive’ cables, just because they where used or a new version came out. Still they perform and once you know what it can do, there is no way back. (Still enjoying any sound even from my macbook, those speakers are great)
So thanks Paul. This is my second time listening to this and the other one you did 5 years ago. Yes, I’ve been a fan that long. So, as the answer is clear as mud. You mentioned Audeze, I have a set, but the stinking cable is to short. If I get a replacement cable the not -Audeze, the not $745 cables will I cry because of the lack of sonic excellence? In other word words, are Audeze cables that good?
Used to always have some target of 10% of the cost of the equipment should be put into cables, but when entire system wasn't quite 21k$ in total, there is so many options to choose from at the range. What was kinda noticeable when doing testing, was the diminishing returns for going too much higher, and that the budget seemed to usually be better spent on the equipment itself. Totally different scenario when not constrained by budget, but I'd still wonder what actual gains/ benefits are noticeable in audio quality beyond a point.
The 10% think is marketing! It’s like De Beers with diamonds, two months salary for something that will last forever! Ultimately it’s about how the purchase makes you feel!
@@RotatingToroids Well, that's an interesting comparison :) De Beers kind of manipulate the supply of diamonds to keep the prices as high as they are, they aren't exactly the rarest of things. Though they are kind of pretty by time the jewellers have cut and polished them.
Cables are the last thing you should buy in my opinion. Get the electronics and the speakers right and then start the cable dance. Cables are not going to have first order effects on your sound, they can let you hear nuances your not going to hear using lamp cord. The question is how much is enough? A modest system won't gain a lot no matter how expensive the cable because it's not resolving enough to let the difference shine through. You can build your own using quality wire and ends, the cost of a store bought cable depends more on how it looks than how it sounds. Knitting your own can cut the cost a lot.
I use the cheapest speaker cables from Nordest which I think can compare well with cables many times more expensive from the same company and others. I don’t know how to post video clips here but you can find them in TH-cam.
1 - Audio cables have differents sound signatures. 2 - The quality of the result is NOT related to price. That's all you need to know about audio cables... ^^
i tried so manny cables from 1500 to 100 euro. In my view just get good 4mm copper cables. And spend the other money for like ISOACOUSTICS GAIA. They actually improve the audio!
Price is somewhat virtual. I think it boils always down to what the value is of which ever item to the person that buys it. Having said that, in the world where copper is not always copper, higher and higher contents of 'chinesium' alloys, a product in that high price bracket will certainly be more reliable and of quality than most cheap cables.
Paul, I totally agree with your opinion. Yet, I look at the issue from another perspective. As the law of diminishing return holds, it is up to the audiophiles to decide how much they are willing to spend. Who cares how the rich kids spend their money... right? I have one suggestion: try the expensive cable from the second hand market.
I've seem many reviews about "Cable Quality" ,I totally agree with the measurement result and conclusions .I've worked at centimetric wave lengths. However I also agree with a "Blind Test" where a diffrences were found ,and agree with them also . The measurement from what I've seen were made at small signal that should predict the cable behavior at higher voltages and currents . When you have a good connectivity between the amplifier output and the speaker input terminal the measurements results should repeat it self . The weak points in the circuit are the connectors at the cable the amplifier's output and the speakers input terminals .That is my opinion the reason for this discussion, beside commercial reasons . I'll bring an example .Arc welding ... DC voltages are up to 40 volts currents up to 150 amps (construction steels). If your Clamp and the electrode are well connected a good welder will get a good arc .And he can also hear it . If the contacts are not good he will have an inconsistent arc that can prevent a quality weld .This is an extreme example .In our case we hardly reach 10 present of an arc welder power .This kind phenomenon can occur in an audio circuit .And its almost impossible to measure it So the solution should be not "A high end cable" but an "Idiot proof "cables and terminals .
i discovered how important connections were to impedance of a signal on my own with a multimeter playing with different cables attached to the speakers. Some of my poorly made banana ends would add 3-10ohms of impedance depending on how i attached them to the terminals. I also had some far more expensive cables that were no better unless you were really careful how you attached them to the posts. and ALL of them had less measured impedance when attached to 5 way terminals that were screwed all the way in rather then left loose like i see all the time on systems. My best impedance measurments were taken with basic 14 awg ofc with a stripped end shoved through the hole and the post clamped down on it. I was comparing $160 banna ended cables with $20 skar ofc wire for sub woofers from from amazon. If the banana ended cables weren't seated carefully in my particular binding posts, i absolutely had a noticeable loss in the "upper register/air around the sound" areas. seated properly i think i liked the sound as much as the bare wire. But not anything to justify the extra expense and im glad i obtained them second hand (Were a friends own built up cables from very high end components) And all my banana ended cables had this issue to more or less degree in my particular 5 way posts from parts express. My expensive bananas are more likely to make a proper quick connect and go style connection then my amazon el cheapos. But straight OFC wire clamped down physically into the post like the good ole days. Ya know, the not lazy way, is consistently my best way of connecting to my speakers i have. And also happens to be the cheapest. Some of the measurements were nuts on the crappier banana ends though honestly. I was able to get DC resistance measurements as high as an extra 16-20 ohms with a loose post and imperfectly seated el cheapo banana jack. The highest added dc resistance i could get with the home brew bananas was an extra 0.8ohms added. But thats still compared to an added 0 with the straight stripped, and quite cheap, clamped down 14 awg ofc wire. To be fair though, i couldnt measure any added dc resistance to the good bannas when seated properly, but the fact they can be seated improperly at all annoyed me. Id rather just clamp down a stripped wire end with a good bit of force and know with absolute certainty my connection is as solid as possible. Because when it is, the mystique of high end cables vanishes, QUITE quickly. That being said all rca cables are NOT created equally, and your RCA interconnects is where i tend to recommend using the best quality you can afford. I have changed to new RCA's in the past to a very "blanket off the speakers" effect. Especially moving from shielded line level transmitting rca, to short, ground shielded rca runs if you can. Cable interferance, capacitance, and inductance on these runs will be exaggerated at the power stage. Everywhere you have rca's besides turntable to phono stage needs to be as short as is possible, with as little dc resistance ,cable capacitance, and inductance as you can possibly achieve without experiencing interference. But even then, ground shield cables sound better then true shielded thanks to the cable capacitance of a very small high impedance signal running with a dielectric between two discrete conductors. You just may have no choice depending on the levels of interference in your environment. I see people being sold and recommending really expensive shielded loudspeaker cables too. Unless you live at the base of a hill covered in AM radio stations (some people do) this is only hindering their experience of their system. Guaranteed
I think Cardas is an excellent company with solid, bona fide technology and top quality materials. Their beyond Clear line is not cheap- but it is not 20k either. It was about 10k for balanced interconnects, digital cable and 2 meters of speaker cable. My system is north of 100 K and it was well worth the investment. Rule of thumb is 5% of your system budget should go to cables/interconnect.
I'm sorry but that's a completely flawed logic. I like food, I go to many michelin star restaurants. What is the price of a bottle of water in those restaurants? $100? No it's not, it's the same price than in any other restautant. $200 gives you the best cables you can buy, made out of professional Canare cables and Neutrik connectors. It's not a percentage, it's a fix amount. There is absolutely no logic behind the percentage, the only logic is to make you spend more.
@@Maxime-ho9iv If you say so. So lets say you have a system that's 100,000. Are you going to invest 5k for cable and interconnect or 200 dollar cable? Are you the least bit curious how cable materials and construction affect sound quality? I don't follow your logic.
@@johnloupis2347 Well it does depend on your resources John, and the resolution of your system. There will be a huge segment of those with systems who won't hear the difference in their particular set up.
Hi, Paul. First of all thanks for your videos. I agree with what was said before, great way of approaching the topic. Question for you: What cables are you using at Octave Records?
One of these days I am going to do a speaker cable upgrade, I am going to go from 14/2 Romex to 12/2 or possibly the cloth covered twisted lamp cord that Amazon sells, $25 for 32'
Expensive cables are one of the reasons high end audio as a hobby is laughed at. I can justify my high end BMWs cost as the measured performance and material/build quality is there. Telling someone to just "feel the deeper connection to the music " with an expensive cable makes you a tool. 😆
Once in a past I used for speakers connection a cable which was produced ( I believe) before 1939. Just because i had it at reach of hand. It was durable - no plastic used only cotton and bronse tiny wires wrapping completly the cotton strings preserving ease of bending and not crcking. Extremly usefull and dedicated for electric Irons. The audio signals in top band were very sweet and appealing Seems to me nobody would buy it even for free because it was looking as cable for iron.
This must be the well known Western Electric cable which has won the hearts of many audiophiles. It's made by tinned copper in cotton wrapping. Duelund from Denmark uses the same idea and makes cables for a variety of thicknesses. You may be interested...
@@AndMakrid Realy interesting that today this type somebody adopted. . Few years ago I adopted so called "lyca" wiring and it has shown some gain above 10 kHz . But it was a bit complicated installation. preserving for industance reasons additional 1 inch distance between wires and after years I gave it up for convinent standard wiring. 10-12 kHz in my case wins e game enough rgds
@@james6039 you are clueless - 50% of what you hear is the room and BTW here in Europe our buildings are solid and not such a joke like in the USA that when one shoots down his computer the fridge of the neighbour is killed with the same bullet
@@Harald_Reindl Maybe I should have said it different. I'm more of a believer in the Room rather Hi-End Room Acoustics. IMO the Room is the 2nd most important thing. However - if you have to spend $5000 on Room Acoustics use a different room or get some wall-to-wall carpeting, some drapes, a nice sofa and lazyboy (no leather).
@@james6039 I doubt that I can buy a new apartment with 5000 dollars and bass don't care about carpets nor do carpets or furniture work full range - you have no clue - period
I use Linn K20 speaker cable because they publish specification that meet the Naim’s spec requirements. I don’t see other cable companies publishing specs. Audio doesn’t know there specs, I asked them.
Come on Paul. I get you have to say this and I own many of your products at home. I even have a 45k home theatre system and there is no time where cables have made a jot of difference to the sound quality or video. It's this simple, the cable needs to have good shielding from interference and be OFC. If you have those two properties you are going to be fine and notice no difference. We don't even need to go into the numerous tests that have been carried out, where it shows a slight difference in frequency response that would be impossible for a human ear to detect. If companies like Audio Quest were so confident, then they would have a booth at shows where they prove it to you with blind A/B tests. In my many years of visiting high end shows I have never seen this happen. Ultimately, if the consumer wants to spend his/hers well earned money on a cable because they like the look of it, then go right ahead.
People can't hear the difference and some people can and I've seen and even experienced blind tests myself where I and others can pick it out consistently. I think really the people that can't just get really upset and jump up and down because they don't believe that other people just have better hearing. That said I'm talking about the difference between cheap off of the spool stuff and a pair of $300 speaker cables as a pair. In car audio it really makes a difference. I installed car stereos for 8 years and I can tell you right now that every time I put in cheap cabling I knew they'd be back for noise even if I took both sides of the car apart to make sure that I ran the power and the signal cables on opposite sides of the car.
Agreed, cables are over priced. I don’t have a expensive system, $5k. I use Linn K20 cables because they have specifications that meet the spec requirements of my Naim Nait5si. I contacted AudioQuest and inquired about their cable specs and they responded that don’t know. If cables are so important why aren’t measurable specs published and manufacturers recommending certain specs. In another inexpensive system I use 14 gauge solid copper from LOWES. Twist them together and add banana plugs. Sound fine.
If you look at the science behind what is supposed to be a quality cable, you can make your own with pretty good results if you do it right. Lots of things to consider. The cable, the shielding in the cable, the copper quality, the purity of the connectors. Will still cost more than spool crap, but not $20,000. That's just stupid, in my opinion.
@@codfishknives8526 Exactly and you don't have to spend way too much. II spent a total of $175.50 for my 5.1 channel home theater with bi-amped towers. Not as good as the old cables I used to have but sound quite good to me. Now if I could still get my hands the z series cable from all those years ago I would. I personally don't see value in something over a few hundred dollars for nice shielded, pure, well terminated wire with a quality dialectric as I can't hear a difference past that but if others do more power to them. Oh and ALWAYS twisted pair signal cables.
Not sure why this comes up over and over. It’s pretty easy. Go buy a $500+ pair of cables and compare it against what you’re already using. Decent cables of varying kinds (speaker, coax, hdmi, rca, xlr, etc) run between $25-100.
I am a graduated musician and have experience with hifi-equipment. Sometimes I do hear differences between cables and sometimes I don't. How is that possible? I have no idea.
I am wondering if peope compare the sound of their old cables with the newly acquired high end cable, interpret it partly as due to better design and materials as I think often oxidation of the old one is often forgotten. The first thing I do once the system is not sounding well anymore is cleaning the contacts with deoxit, stripping the wire ends and readjust speaker positioning.... even the cleanup of the listening room sometimes helps😅... what a grazy hobby this is.
I have no opinion because I’ve never used anything other than ordinary cables. But I think assessing the benefit requires double blind testing; which no one seems willing to do in any controlled, systematic; statistically meaningful way. And I think that, ironically, the fact that no one is willing to provide this answer, provides the answer.
This is a common (and fine) statement but it might miss the target just a bit. It’s the equivalent to saying that we need research to find out which bag carries lipstick better, a Gucci or the plastic one from the grocery store? In terms of functionality, not much of a difference, but if you can afford the Gucci you will likely enjoy it more, feel more pride of ownership, want to show it off, and claim that it indeed carries your lipstick better than other bags. No science required.
@@thomass.9167 I agree with that. However, I object to purveyors who insist there is a functional difference, worth the money, and will not offer the proof I describe. I have no problem with the fool and his/her money that you describe. They get what they want or deserve.
@@edd2771 Well, it’s easy to claim there is a functional difference without offering any proof. Consumers (with money to spend) assume something is better because it is made of more exotic materials, looks better, and has a fancy name. Works for Audioquest just as well as it works for Gucci. From what I can tell, both companies do well. 😀
@@thomass.9167 yes, this the reason for me making the comment here and elsewhere. Someone like Paul would be the ideal person to do it, but he’s too vested in it. So he essentially gives the issue a pass while appearing avuncular and even-handed. I think he is a stand up guy and this channel is excellent, but he is a special kind of devious when it comes to topics of this nature.
Way to go: Decide how much money you’re willing to spend on your cables. Then find the ones that you think are the best in that price segment. How hard can it be...😆
Very fine advice, Sir. But, you forgot one thing. Humans are always suspicious (and envious?) of things contained in the price bracket above what they, themselves, can afford, and must therefore refer to it as “snake oil” and other similarly meaningless terms.
@@thomass.9167 "Some" humans...... People used to ask me with my Jeep "whats your next modification?" They would look at me dumbfounded when I would say I have it right where I want it. Same with my Lotus, got it to where I wanted and have kept it the same for the last 6 years. I now have my system where I want it and it won't change probably till I die. I don't envy my rich friends I look at them with pride on what they have accomplished. I learned long ago "live within you means"
@@thomass.9167 Ok, I’m no saint. I’ve been there too investing in cables more expensive than my equipment could benefit from. It’s clear that very expensive high end equipment will benefit more from expensive cables than something like my moderately priced units will. That’s my personal experience too. There definitely is a difference in terms of sound quality when it comes to cables but high end cables won’t work miracles on more inferior equipment... A friend more experienced when it comes to hifi than me once gave me an advice; buy cables for about 1/10 of the money the two units you’ll connect cost together. That’s roughly the price segment you should be searching in. I’ve been following that advice since😊
I am new to the world of HiFi, in fact with my gear you would probably say I've yet to arrive. I have started with vintage gear from eBay, and everything I've added has made a big improvement to my listening pleasure. I was staggered when I connected up an old Chord Mojo, spent the whole night listening and discovering new sounds. I understand there are diminishing returns here, and somehow count myself fortunate that my wallet will prevent me from chasing tiny improvements to sound quality, at huge expense. Never forget the music is inside your head and totally subjective. Never forget it is about pleasure, and that's your own. I pity lovers of fine wines who can no longer enjoy more modest vintages. The skill in life is learning to be satisfied, and enjoy yourself. People who can afford obscenely priced cables will never be satisfied, and should be pitied, I feel.
Your speakers are wired with cooper wires. So using silver speaker cables has very little if any effect on the sound, as your system is only as good as the weakest link. PS, I LOVE my Model S Plaid!
$21.000 buys a lot of records!! What I think is especially important in audio cables is a secure mechanical connection. If the contact isn't solid and secure the manufacture and contents of the wiring itself is hypothetical. Anyone who's suffered from a crackly, loose or dirty 'phono connector will know exactly what I mean
21,000 buys you a lot of concert tickets. Or you could go listen to music for free. OR you could pay people to come play at your house with actual instruments. But no-one does. They don't love music. They love spending money and thinking it got them "an experience". What they were sold was an idea.
@@ZeroG84 I think you're right but anyone who can afford to spend that amount of money on cables could probably buy the concert tickets and private concerts as well! It's a strange old world when we have homeless living on the street, earthquake victims begging for relief and audio cables that cost the equivalent of a year's salary sell. C'est la vie...Have a great weekend my friend and thanks for your interest and reply
It's like a teeshirt. One from the dollar store will be thin, made from cheap cotton and hardly withstand a single wash. Spend $50 and the difference is obvious. Materials are far better, it'll be nicer to wear and likely to survive years of washing. In short, the performance is easily and measurably superior. Spend $200 on a teeshirt and the improvement for the additional outlay is difficult to justify. Except of course that it will have a designer label. It's the law of diminishing returns. We used to have two identical systems in our listening room. One was wired with the cheap, thin cable which were in the box with the loudspeakers. The other was hooked up with QED 79 strand. Most customers could tell a difference straight away and we sold a lot of 79 strand. It was a fair upsell and we were confident that the customer's outlay was well spent. Sending twice as much was appropriate too but only if the price and quality of the audio components warranted it. But, just in the teeshirt analogy, there comes a point where the audible difference is probably hard to hear and beyond a certain price ceiling you're probably wasting your money. But, there's obviously kudos and bragging rights to be had by buying the very best.
I find this sales presentation slyly deceptive. where the expert says what he does, while recommending against it, but not with any solid reasons provided . Thus he avoids conflicts with known hearing science, and his own credibility, somewhat, while still avoiding a yes or no answer to a simple electronics question that the head of an electronics company already knows.
Paul did give a fantastic answer as he always do. It's sad we're from different countries and I'll probably never have a chance to visit PS Audio to meet him but it's obvious that he express his honest opinions even if they may do harm to his company's trade and this is an insanely rare quality you can find in hi-fi businness. The proof is in the pudding but here is the answer. You can't compare a $5 cable with $1000 cable because both material quality (copper or silver purity for example) and engineering (solutions for screening or welding techiques for example) and also standardisation of the production processes will higly probably way better for a $1000 cable. But guess what, you can compare a $1000 usd cable with a $20,000 cable and actually you can find the $1000 one the best. There is a quality limit after a certain level regardless of production techniques and after that point, every penny you spend goes to a tiny tiny tiny fraction of overall quality of the cable that even its manufacturer can not spot in an objective A/B test. In addition, you're going to need a very expensive speakers and amplifiers and other auxiliary devices like power conditioners in order to reveal that tiny tiny tiny fraction of the information in the signal. All in all, imdividual equipment costs should be in balance for your hi-fi gear and the most expensive ones should be speakers and (pre-power) amplifiers without a doubt. A reasonable approach for cable costs problem is like the cost of the cables in the takes %10 - %15 of the total cost of the gear without cables. For example, if you have a gear totals $10,000 without cables then $1000-$1500 cost for all cables in the system cables is just fine. Remember, speakers create the actual sound from the signal and amplifiers create the signal (excluding turntables). Since creating is way more difficult than transporting the biggest portion of the total money should go to them.
Paul, I really appreciate your videos. I wish there had been more of a discussion about cables making a difference on more revealing systems. I think there may be diminishing returns for us mere mortals with lower to mid range systems, say $5-10K range. Any thoughts?
Do you have an opinion about Transparent cables? I am considering switching from audioquest to transparent for rca and loudspeaker cables. In my tests the power chords from audioquest are superior (digital too). In regard of rca/loudspeaker cables the clear winner for me is transparent (to much lower cost)
One of the biggest improvements I've made to my setup was switching from audioquest black lab RCAs to chord shawline RCAs I was so impressed I actually switched all my speaker cables for also!
beauty in eye of beholder. I believe in one or 2 steps up from ' basic' -the cheap cables often supplied with DVD players etc. that is Monster type interconnects. and I used 14 ga pure copper cable (radio shack ) for 25 years, the same set - no problem. less than $1. a foot. ** what is inside the 75 ohm cable that transports 100 chan of high def video and multi chain audio - the wire between the poles along street.( has to be, has to be WAY more info than 2 ch. stereo. come on.) is that like 20 or 18 ga basic wire ?
What often goes unsaid in the high end audio community with regard to all components, especially cables is the psychological effect known as” immediate hearing comparisons vs delayed hearing comparisons. Components priced “ reasonably” ( 1k- 1.5k each) set up properly in a nicely treated room can sound absolutely incredible. More importantly, your distant memory of a better sounding system will have little effect on your feelings toward your current set up. Immediate A-B comparisons are different and can effect your feelings accordingly. Bottom line: use great source material, be patient with treatments and set up and just learn to love what you have. Your joy will be further enhanced by staying away from the immediate AB comparisons
I disagree that an A/B comparison should be stayed away from when setting up a system in your own listening room. Especially when talking about cables. If you're comparing one single component and you can't hear an appreciable difference between the cheaper (say $100-500) and the expensive one (price of a car), you've just been sold something. It is precisely because of snake oil claims that people need to test, compare, and listen for themselves to avoid an 'Emperor's Clothes' experience or just getting ripped off.
Someone tried to sell me Monster Cable interconnects. I said I would try them ONLY if I could bring them back if I wasn't satisfied. He agreed. Left channel = Monster Cable Right channel = $1.95 cable from Radio Shack. I put on the headphones and could not hear a difference. I then used an adapter to lengthen the cheap cable to 12 feet. Listening test showed no difference again. Only with no input and the gain cranked way up I could hear a bit of hiss in that channel. I got my refund the next day. I've since upgraded to $5.00 cables with gold plated connectors. My ears and bank account are both happy.
@dj Kplus I've seen a lot of audio snake oil sold that way. People expect $$$ to sound better so it does. Left vs Right makes differences in quality stick out like a sore thumb. Hiss, buzz, hum, lack of high frequency, attenuated signal etc. You'll hear it in one ear and not the other. And for the sake of thoroughness, switch the L+R cables around in case the source material has a quality difference between L+R.
@dj Kplus If the $$$$ interconnect is so wonderful, that channel will sound better than the cheap channel. Period. End of story. As for your method, let me tell you a true story... One day my roommate came home to see me behind the TV with a Nintendo screen displayed. He asked me what I was doing and I told him I was moving the Nintendo from channel 3 to Line In to get a better picture. He said, "Yeah, it does look better." I replied, "I haven't switched it over yet."
Have you checked out Iconoclast cables? Made by Belden and one of their top engineers to maximize performance based on LCR measurements as well as others. I’ve only tried their lower cost BAV interconnects so far and they beat my longtime budget favorite, Kimber PBJ. I get why a lot of guys don’t understand cables. I grew up with cheap electronics and it never got in the way of loving music. But the first time I tried a better than average cable I absolutely heard more information. I heard more detail at lower volumes. And these weren’t ridiculously over priced cables. I paid $80. I always wondered why I could barely understand lyrics in some songs. Then I heard how those average cables are masking and diminishing the recording. They’re robbing you of details. Of course an even bigger factor is proper speaker placement and room treatment. Without those you may not hear many differences in cables. If you can’t bother to do that then maybe better cables aren’t necessary for you. Which is all good. Spend your money wherever you want.
Paul is spot on here. Cables make a difference to those it makes a difference to. I will say that I've noticed bad cables versus well constructed ones.
But that braindead nonsense isn't about bad and well constructed! It's about morons which claim a cable could to more than transmit electrical signals unaltered from output to input and that's bullshit
I think the biggest differences in cables are due to impedance matching with the amp and speakers. Different cables will have different resistances, and really that and shielding are the only things that really matter with regards to how a cable affects a speaker's performance. I think that in blind testing where people do hear differences between cables, it's because one set couples the speakers to the amp better than another set. However to do that, a cable doesn't have to be super expensive, it just has to be the right thickness and length. Famously Troels Gravesen of Jantzen audio, a designer of world class DIY speakers, just uses cheap twisted speaker cables for his speakers.
Well said. I also like to look at the longevity of the cables too. How long will it last me? 3 months... 6 months? a year... maybe 3 years? ... 10 years? Will my tin-coated copper cable brand name cable be better than some off brand? Like he said in the video, to paraphrase: if you want to spend the money, then who's stopping you? If you're on a budget, do what you must; Just do your research.
@@CockatooDude don't you have some basic education? That resistance is that small that it don't matter at all - even if it would be big it's not frequency dependent and so at the end of the day compensated by just turn the volume up - you morons really should visit a school and avoid alcohol and other drugs
When listening, I prefer not to put up with the faint background signal noise (noise floor) One should try pressing pause or mute, and from the MLP, if one is unable to differentiate whether the systems are off or on, that's telling you your cables are crap. When friends or guests come around rather than showing them how loud the system goes, I prefer to press pause/mute and show them how quiet it goes. None of them gets it, of course 😂 Silence is golden.
I couldn’t do without my AQ and Chord cables. They really complete the over all sound of the system. Taking them out and replacing them with freebee’s makes everything sound flat. I find that cables improve the systems sound stage massively. With my expensive cables I get a clear precise sound stage which appears to be three dimensional. Everything has its place and I can follow complex music far easier. Cables are just as much a part of the system as the amp, source or speakers are. What’s the point in spending loads of money on expensive HiFi and then wiring it up with some cheap means to an end cable. If one can’t afford high end cables, just buy entry level from a proper cable company that actually understands HiFi signals and how to maintain them.
Paul ! Absolutely Loved this one. Cables -I have Robin Hood . Do I need them, No! , do I love them Yes! Check .. Cars- I have a BMW . Do I need it? No! Do I love it? Yes! Check ! I’m with you , Paul, all the way ! Thank you for another great video!
This is the biggest non-answer I’ve ever heard. There’s no technical evaluation, there’s no scientific reasoning, there is just “I do it because I can“. What a waste of time
It’s a luxury product, designed for the select few who can afford it. No science required. At that price point of non-essential products, it’s all about “I want them” as opposed to “not one person in the world needs them”. No one needs a Rolls Royce either, but they’re sort of a nice thing if you’ve got the dough.
@@thomass.9167 Stop calling this "luxury". This is a diverted way to use the word, in a world that does not value anything anymore. True luxury exists and true luxury is great. All luxury is not scam, and scam is certainly not luxury.
@@Maxime-ho9iv Kind Sir, I did not call anything a scam. I called it a luxury product, meaning something no one needs but some people with big bank accounts may choose to buy. “Luxury” is not s derogatory term, but rather one reserved for items that take what is basic and functional, and add expensive features that make the buyer feel as if he got s superior product.
@@thomass.9167 You didn’t call it scam, but I did. You mixed stuff. Luxury is not what you think it is. I have lot of luxury items in my life. Some people put their heart and soul into making luxury products. Those snake oil cables are not luxury, they are pure vaporware.
At HiFi Shows, remember those, there will be six figures plus systems of electronics & the cables/cords/wire will cost more. Especially if it's a Cable Company room.
wisdom that came from u, it's like when there's a time back then when im still smoking, well everyone know they are bad for health so i never recommend it, but hell im smoking it, but i've quit them 12 years now
That was a carefully crafted answer but at least he kept some honesty. Perhaps an even more honest approach that still SHOULDN'T offend anyone would be to say - Don't just go by what somebody else says. Try out those cables for yourself (if you can afford them of course). Do some A/B comparisons. Try lower and higher cost and see if it's really worth it to your own ears (and wallet). In my own experience, I've heard massive differences between cheap, thin $5-$10 cables and thicker $50-$100 cables - simply because they could handle the signal better. On the other hand, when I tried some more expensive stuff, I was rather disappointed. Unfortunately, there's alot of folks out there that will just try to sell you something. As everyone's ears and hearing are a bit different, I think it's important to listen and compare for yourself and buy what YOU like - which I think agrees with what he said here.
I don't know I think what happens is at the end of the day and what matters most is to the person buying the product. I mean you may call me a fool or whatever I don't care, but if I can hear a difference between a $500 cable and a $5 cable then it's worth the extra $495 to me. And I think that's what matters most, people shouldn't be made to feel bad or stupid for spending their money on products that make their experience better to them. I've got a full nordost setup, everything from purple flare to Blue heaven and some 2 flat speaker cables and my system sounds better than it ever has. Does that mean I'm an idiot for spending that money, maybe, but what matters is I'm happier when I turn on my hi-fi system to listen to my music.
it is all between the ears of the audiophile.if a 10 foot pair of speaker wire cut from a spool bought from home depot sounds as good as a pair of audio quest cables then they will sound just as good if the owner of cheaper pair thinks so.i personally have silver sonic speaker cables and inter connects in my system and they sound great.
I worked at an electronics lab that encouraged after hours home projects as it would hone the skills. My boss decided to make the ultimate hifi system. Two points became very clear. Firstly if you were playing music at 4w per channel and wanted to replicate a cymbal crash without clipping you needed 300W per channel into 8 ohm load. We laughed at his calculations and set out to prove him wrong...we didnt. The second was an examination of speaker wire. Not through inaccurate listening tests - we tested them by using sig gens and spectrum analysers. First - gild plating doesnt make a damned difference as long as the cable is properly tightened and secondly that there was no gain over a high amperage multi core of fine wire in a figure of 8 configuration......in other like heavy weight bell wire. We had the best kit that money could buy and it was clear expensive speaker leads area waste.
If only I was able to listen with equipment and not with my ears. Since I do, the "scientific tests" are irrelevant, at least until the measurement equipment can fully replicate what our ears/brain will hear. The inadequacy of the testing equipment is the fly in the ointment.
Most ill spend on a cable is about 500$. I currently use isotek, tellurium Q, chord company. I classify them as aesthetics. Dont expect a difference in sound quality
For a small kid, a candy can be the center of the world. As the kid grows up though, that candy is not satisfying enough. That dissapointment is the punishment of Erysichthon - the price we pay for experience and purpose - and is a part of life. I can still enjoy a good bottle of wine but an experienced sommelier can be as miserable as myself, the audiophile. "Do you really claim that the glass plays a role?". Do cables make a difference?
@@kyron42 I don't think that is entirely correct. I.e. for speakers it makes sense to have big copper cables with gold plated connectors. They are definitely better than thin cables and bad connectors. But after thick copper and gold plated connectors there is not much to add to makes them even better.
Thanks Paul!!! Best answer regarding audio type cables I HAVE EVER HEARD!! I laughed so hard and loved your delivery. Cheers!
I have participated in quite a few blind cable tests. Always considered myself one of the golden ears. The test that made the biggest impression on me was one where 11 of us listened to 5 sets of cables from 30 bucks/one metre pair to $2000/one meter pair. Unlike a blind test, the administrator announced which cable was being used. To quickly summarize, the majority of the group (me included) selected the $2000 pair as clearly the best sounding of the five. No surprise, right?
Well, it turned out that NO cables were switched. The $30 pair was in place the entire time. IOW, there was no actual change in sound quality. The improvement that we all "clearly heard" was, as they say, "all in our heads." That test changed me from a believer in exotic cables to a believer in the power of suggestion and marketing. ;)
Sorry to hear that all test subjects including you had poor ears, most probably due to a combination of poor genetics and hearing damage)
@@wa2368money-waster cope
glad to see recognition of the established science of how human hearing works. the knowledge that human hearing is only subjective would eliminate a lot the bad for the hobby snake oil products. of course, some people will desire to buy more stuff no matter what .
@@wa2368 that's a pretty rude statement for not knowing the people involved . are you trying to deflect the fact you bought to fulfill a desire without first knowing how human hearing works to gratify expectations of expected results.
You would fail a blind test as well. In fact there was a blind test done with people that have good ears for audio between cables and and old copper coat hanger. The result was inconclusive but showed a slight preference towards the coat hanger vs expensive cables.
As some who studies electrical engineering, my opinion is to get the largest gauge stranded wire your system can take of oxygen free copper with as high a strand count as possible 300+. I'd put that up against any price exotic material cable out there. @@wa2368
I have done lots of BLIND A/B testing with high-end cable gear over the years and in every case the "expert" could not consistantly pick the cheap from expensive....even trained musicians failed to hear a statistical difference.
Exactly. Some cheap interconnects may be susceptible to RF/EMI interference or of a higher capacitance which may affect their sound over longer distance, but anything of reasonable quality will be sonically equal.
Thanks for sharing! That was my gut instinct. Now I feel fulfilled with my Monoprice Monolith cables....and other speakers cables from SVS.
I've had just the opposite but then again I was only using like $300 monsters z series cables. My friends wife actually came out of the room from watching their child yelling at him because she thought he had bought brand new speakers. Some people do hear the difference and some people don't and the people that don't want to believe that some people can.
@@Ace-Brigade You are saying she heard a difference from another room?? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
I believe you, but you're not testing for anything. The whole test is fake. You need to test for something real, and it has to be objective. If you set up a test that can produce usable results, you need to do it scientifically. I'm not trying to be mean or disrespectful, but if I asked you to give me a provable way that you can label a piece of gear cheap or expensive, you can't do it. Its impossible. I'm all for blind testing. I've set up many high quality blind tests over the years, and you can't begin until you answer 2 questions. 1. What are you testing for? 2. And why? You have to start with something real if you want to get real results.
I want to see a Double blinded Experiment where you Pick The 2100$ cable over a regular one.
Not a big fan of DB testing. I understand the rational but I think it takes about a week to evaluate a cable- put on your favorite music that you know well. Pay attention to soundstage and inner detail which I think is one of the more apparent distinctions of high end cable. At first you will probably notice the cable sounds "different" and further evaluation to determine if it is in fact better. Bottom line is: Do you trust your ears or not?
@@dwightballard3868 I suggest you watch Andrew Robinsons video "Three Hi-Fi Experiences That CHANGED Me FOREVER" where he talks about industry professionals failing the DB tests at Harman, even some for products they had designed themsevles. If they are failing said tests, what does that say about this hobby. And no, you probably shouldn't trust your ears outside of said tests. You can trust your emotional attachement to the music, but everything else is tied to lesser instincts that are easily duped and biased.
@@dwightballard3868 A test doesn't have to mean picking out which you like more, it's establishing whether you can pick out differences without the huge crutch of knowing what you're listening to.
One needs the scientific method to properly establish facts. It's not without reason that there's a field of psychology studying unintentional biases and all similar things. Snake oil salesmen usually react negatively to the idea of properly adhering to scientific methods though.
You can't do double blind in audio, because of psychoacoustical reasons. But yes, you can do blind AB and I personally think it would enough to justify the better equipment.
@@dwightballard3868 forget about trusting your ears. All elements of audio reproductions can be tested objectively.
The best answer I’ve EVER heard to that cable question. A thoughtful response. Same would be, for example, speakers. Are $100,000/pair gonna sound great? You betcha! Are they worth it? Heaven’s no. As for me, I wouldn’t even spend $20,000/pair.
If you really into good sound and had millions then you'd certainly think differently
@Douglas Blake You are probably right but if I was a millionaire I'd certainly get those high end cables! The only way to find out whether it works or not is to try it out. Some people's hobby is collect cars, painting etc my hobby would be collecting cables.
@@ek7473 I would buy high end cables. If I had millions in disposable income.
But even then, within limits. Not 21K ones. 1000 maybe.
Reality kicks in immediately on expensive purchases when the product gets home too because the realization sets in that someone in your house can break it or mess with it and now your 10k-20k product is a paperweight and reminder that you fucked up.
There is no measurable performance improvment in expensive cables.
They even have been measured several times to actually DEGRADE the sound quality.
2021 Audioquest pricing guide.....they offer a $87,800/pair speaker cable option. If I sold these cables I'd have the confidence to subject myself to a blind listening test. Surely I could pick these out of a blind group every single time. It would be so apparent...right? [sarcastic grin]
The FTC should fine them and shut them down.
My wife left me for someone with very expensive audio cables.
Why did you pick up a wife??
@@Gma7788 She picked me because I had the best audio cables.
This has always been purely up to the consumer. There's way too much complaining in hi-fidelity audio over what others are spending. Leave value and expense up to the individual.
Right? Some people run scamming call centers in India, stealing money from the poor grandmas and grandpas around the world. Some other people sell snake oil cables. Can we just let them do what to do and leave value and expense up to the individual?
@Douglas Blake Thanks a lot for taking the time to write this.
Too often, I think the « debate » around cables, if there’s one to begin with, is too virtual.
Your story is not virtual and it shows how people are getting ripped off by some bad people. Literally scammed and this is frightening.
I don’t understand why we don’t have more people being more vocal about this issue.
I have a very resolving and quite expensive system, because I truly love music and I value quality. But I have some very « simple » blue jeans cables made out of Canare star quad cable and good connectors. They cost $200, because I needed quite some length.
I do research around what I buy, not only because I want to optimize my investment, but also because I value hard work, and honest work. This is why I have Focal speakers with beryllium tweeters, there’s value behind that, real and true value. There is absolutely nothing behind those snake oil cables, it’s beyond crazy, no data, no measurements, nothing.
I feel really bad about the state of all this, people spending stupid amount of money just because they can, thus financing some scamming companies while they could support true artisans, not necessarily in audio by the way.
I can't handle people with no brain and no knowledge of anything
@@Maxime-ho9iv And people buy $50k handbags or watches that are less accurate than a budget smartphone. People like expensive stuff and they will continue to buy it regardless of how it performs.
People really fail to understand how powerful the placebo effect is and how it can effect everything down to flavor of water.
You tell somone a bottle of water costs $1000 and they will report it tasting better then the same bottle when you tell them its $1.
You tell them a shoe costs $1000 they think its higher quality weither it is or isnt.
So many things are in our heads. This is why you should never believe these things till a double blind test is done. If the speaker wires truly are that much better it should be easy to prove.
Yet look around. There are almost no blind tests and the few there are are just some guy in thier own basment testing so not a good "blind" test and definitely not a good sample.
We all have a security blanket fallback position we like to use. @thendofit tells himself and others that without double blind tests (which have been done many times in the past) there can be no proof. Ergo it doesn't exist. Still others believe any number of other stories that fit their worldview. Here's an interesting question. What happens when you discover something by accident? Say you begin to notice that every time you use this cable something changes. You didn't do it on purpose. You should started noticing it and nonce it's noticed it is repeatable. Placebo? No. It goes against the definition. Placebos work because you believe they do. Accidental discoveries have zero preconceptions, but happen all the time. Just food for thought.
@Paulmcgowanpsaudio did you not know you were plugging in a $1,000 cord when you used it? Link me to an actull full-on blind test cause i searched around and the examples i found were far from blind.
People will notice differences even when there are none. Tests have shown this many times.
Further there are plenty of auditory illusions that show that our brains are easily fooled into thinking we are hearing things we are not.
According to Andew Robinson, industry professionals at doubleblind tests at Harman couldn't even pick out speakers they designed themselves consistently. How much harder would it be with cables?
Andrew Robinson? Who Cares.
@@athathsonty2925 lol, ok bud.
@@harackmw Andrew Robinson uses anecdotal evidence and misconstrues them as facts. Andrew is just a guy with an opinion. (With a large following)
Here's my philosophy on cables. If you can't justify the price, learn what makes a good cable and diy. If you can't diy, buy what you can afford and enjoy it.
@@LunarLightLtd1 He worked in the industry as far as I understand, how is that anecdotal evidence? I work in a separate field, and I can tell you no one there thinks DB tests are anecdotal.
I am of the opinion that for digital transmission (i.e. digital audio or HDMI etc.), any cable which is good enough for error-free transmission of the data is good enough. With HDMI, you see any transmission errors as bad pixels on screen, so it is easy to verify. Unless you have to cover extreme distances, a $20 cable will be good enough. For speaker cables, things are different of course. But still, cables which are more expensive than, say, 10% of your speaker price are insane. So, having a $600 pair of speakers with $60 of cables sounds about right to me.
heres an idea, spend $1000 on the cable and spend an extra $20,000 on speakers, i think tha latter will sound better, but im no expert
People who buy a 20k speaker cable have spent 100-200k on speakers...
One of your best videos yet...honest and objective, you can't ask for anything more than that. Thanks Paul, keep up the great work. 👍🏿
LMAO
I recommend Blue Jeans Cable as a source. Fast, reliable, and relatively inexpensive compared to most sources. A better question would have been how much of a total AV system should be allocated to cabling.
The signal still has to pass through the regular cheap wires found in every single speaker on the planet so it doesn't matter what you put on the outside, those cheap wires inside don't magically change into something better, can someone please change my mind
#10 solid, oxygen-free, copper lamp cord from my MacIntosh to my DynAudios…makes me smile every day!
Do a well-constructed double-blind test to prove how much difference extraordinarily expensive cables make.
I upgraded from '70's Monster cables to AudioQuest medium priced cables ($300) and felt my system sound increased significantly (a curtain opened). Last year, uppgraded to $1550 cables, not much (if anything just a brighter sound) difference....
Monster Cables are the top of the line I'll go on cables in my 12k system. Rega thought me that 25 years ago. If a 1.5k turntable doesn't have expensive cables - it's all bs. Heck I still have some $1.99 RCAs in my system.
Yes, someone that sells magic noise harvesters is a good source of info. Didn't PS audio use to sell magic markers to improve CD quality?
yes, yes they did. At the time He'd probably even poo poo a phase null test between the same track pulled pre and post markering if someone had bothered.
See techmoan's debunking video on the topic of refracted CD laser light data bullcrap lol
If you have the cheapest(lamp cord) cable and an expensive one.....do a blind test to see if there is that much of a difference. if there isnt, save your money. I had wireworld oasis speaker cables$350 and just wanted to see if there was any difference in the lamp cord cable i had from an old system i didnt use any longer. For the heck of it i hooked the lamp cord up to my bryston and PMC FB1+ speakers and couldnt tell any difference. I sold the wireworlds for a couple hundred and used the money to pay down a credit card---money well spent--now im debt free including mortgage. My stereo sounds fine...dont notice any difference. The only way to improve sound quickly/ easily is to get "better" speakers...then amplification.
Appreciate your honesty. Screw hyper expensive cables. We’re just normal people. Cheers!
I think the commenters that connect the cable price to system price are right. No point paying for the best possible cables on a system that does not have the resolution needed to hear potential differences.
I would also like to see blind listening tests with experts, run by a third party, between decent cables and high-end ones on the same system. I doubt they would consistently pick differences between $200 cables and $2000 or even $20,000 cables.
It’s all a gimmick.
The only way they would cost so expensive is if they are laminated in Diamond or some other exotic material but in the end, no difference in sound whatsoever compared to much cheaper ones.
@@Bassotronics It has little to do with the cost of manufacturing. It is a case of charge what the market will bear. Very small volume with very high margin. Even then no one getting rich.
You'll be happy to know that I have done some very extensive blind testing, and was able to prove that the differences are real. However, your method wouldn't work. When you conduct a test like that, you need to be testing for something objective. Going by price is meaningless. What happens if the 20k cable goes on sale and now its a 10k cable. What has changed? Nothing.
Since you're interested in this type of thing, if you wanted to test for something objective, what would it be, and why?
@@AT-wl9yq How did you test? I have A/B 'd cheap vs better interconnects and found a barely discernible difference that was probably a slight loudness difference rather than an improvement in quality, though that wasn't a blinded approach and I'm no expert.
@@technopsychobedlam You don't have to be an expert. You just have to test for something real, and you can't go by price. For example, a real test would be something like, "Is there an audible difference between copper and silver cables.". That's it. Nothing subjective. If you find there is a difference, then only you can decide if its worth the money. One of the reasons you never want to judge by price, is all other factors being equal, quite often you'll prefer the sound of copper over silver in certain applications. There's nothing wrong with liking a less expensive cable better. Its great when that happens.
You also have to be able to accept the truth. Honestly, don't want to conduct a fair test because they don't want to be wrong. They just want to win an argument. I'm not accusing you, just in general.
I got some good deals on those ‘expensive’ cables, just because they where used or a new version came out. Still they perform and once you know what it can do, there is no way back. (Still enjoying any sound even from my macbook, those speakers are great)
Yes! When I saw the video title I was like no way that’s me! Thanks Paul!
definitely the first time i have heard the term "sasquasch bone marrow" in reference to expensive cables...LMAO
that stuff is expensive
So thanks Paul. This is my second time listening to this and the other one you did 5 years ago. Yes, I’ve been a fan that long. So, as the answer is clear as mud. You mentioned Audeze, I have a set, but the stinking cable is to short. If I get a replacement cable the not -Audeze, the not $745 cables will I cry because of the lack of sonic excellence? In other word words, are Audeze cables that good?
Used to always have some target of 10% of the cost of the equipment should be put into cables, but when entire system wasn't quite 21k$ in total, there is so many options to choose from at the range. What was kinda noticeable when doing testing, was the diminishing returns for going too much higher, and that the budget seemed to usually be better spent on the equipment itself.
Totally different scenario when not constrained by budget, but I'd still wonder what actual gains/ benefits are noticeable in audio quality beyond a point.
The 10% think is marketing! It’s like De Beers with diamonds, two months salary for something that will last forever! Ultimately it’s about how the purchase makes you feel!
@@RotatingToroids Well, that's an interesting comparison :) De Beers kind of manipulate the supply of diamonds to keep the prices as high as they are, they aren't exactly the rarest of things. Though they are kind of pretty by time the jewellers have cut and polished them.
Cables are the last thing you should buy in my opinion. Get the electronics and the speakers right and then start the cable dance. Cables are not going to have first order effects on your sound, they can let you hear nuances your not going to hear using lamp cord. The question is how much is enough? A modest system won't gain a lot no matter how expensive the cable because it's not resolving enough to let the difference shine through.
You can build your own using quality wire and ends, the cost of a store bought cable depends more on how it looks than how it sounds. Knitting your own can cut the cost a lot.
I use the cheapest speaker cables from Nordest which I think can compare well with cables many times more expensive from the same company and others. I don’t know how to post video clips here but you can find them in TH-cam.
1 - Audio cables have differents sound signatures.
2 - The quality of the result is NOT related to price.
That's all you need to know about audio cables... ^^
Yep! 😉😋😇
What a great response. Greetings for Lisbon, Portugal.
i tried so manny cables from 1500 to 100 euro. In my view just get good 4mm copper cables. And spend the other money for like ISOACOUSTICS GAIA. They actually improve the audio!
Price is somewhat virtual. I think it boils always down to what the value is of which ever item to the person that buys it. Having said that, in the world where copper is not always copper, higher and higher contents of 'chinesium' alloys, a product in that high price bracket will certainly be more reliable and of quality than most cheap cables.
Paul, I totally agree with your opinion. Yet, I look at the issue from another perspective. As the law of diminishing return holds, it is up to the audiophiles to decide how much they are willing to spend. Who cares how the rich kids spend their money... right?
I have one suggestion: try the expensive cable from the second hand market.
Because of the ringing/mucus in my ears I save Thousands on cables.
I've seem many reviews about "Cable Quality" ,I totally agree with the measurement result and conclusions .I've worked at centimetric wave lengths.
However I also agree with a "Blind Test" where a diffrences were found ,and agree with them also .
The measurement from what I've seen were made at small signal that should predict the cable behavior at higher voltages and currents .
When you have a good connectivity between the amplifier output and the speaker input terminal the measurements results should repeat it self .
The weak points in the circuit are the connectors at the cable the amplifier's output and the speakers input terminals .That is my opinion the reason
for this discussion, beside commercial reasons .
I'll bring an example .Arc welding ... DC voltages are up to 40 volts currents up to 150 amps (construction steels).
If your Clamp and the electrode are well connected a good welder will get a good arc .And he can also hear it .
If the contacts are not good he will have an inconsistent arc that can prevent a quality weld .This is an extreme example .In our case we hardly reach 10 present of an arc welder power .This kind phenomenon can occur in an audio circuit .And its almost impossible to measure it
So the solution should be not "A high end cable" but an "Idiot proof "cables and terminals .
i discovered how important connections were to impedance of a signal on my own with a multimeter playing with different cables attached to the speakers. Some of my poorly made banana ends would add 3-10ohms of impedance depending on how i attached them to the terminals. I also had some far more expensive cables that were no better unless you were really careful how you attached them to the posts. and ALL of them had less measured impedance when attached to 5 way terminals that were screwed all the way in rather then left loose like i see all the time on systems.
My best impedance measurments were taken with basic 14 awg ofc with a stripped end shoved through the hole and the post clamped down on it. I was comparing $160 banna ended cables with $20 skar ofc wire for sub woofers from from amazon. If the banana ended cables weren't seated carefully in my particular binding posts, i absolutely had a noticeable loss in the "upper register/air around the sound" areas. seated properly i think i liked the sound as much as the bare wire. But not anything to justify the extra expense and im glad i obtained them second hand (Were a friends own built up cables from very high end components) And all my banana ended cables had this issue to more or less degree in my particular 5 way posts from parts express. My expensive bananas are more likely to make a proper quick connect and go style connection then my amazon el cheapos. But straight OFC wire clamped down physically into the post like the good ole days. Ya know, the not lazy way, is consistently my best way of connecting to my speakers i have. And also happens to be the cheapest.
Some of the measurements were nuts on the crappier banana ends though honestly. I was able to get DC resistance measurements as high as an extra 16-20 ohms with a loose post and imperfectly seated el cheapo banana jack. The highest added dc resistance i could get with the home brew bananas was an extra 0.8ohms added. But thats still compared to an added 0 with the straight stripped, and quite cheap, clamped down 14 awg ofc wire. To be fair though, i couldnt measure any added dc resistance to the good bannas when seated properly, but the fact they can be seated improperly at all annoyed me.
Id rather just clamp down a stripped wire end with a good bit of force and know with absolute certainty my connection is as solid as possible. Because when it is, the mystique of high end cables vanishes, QUITE quickly.
That being said all rca cables are NOT created equally, and your RCA interconnects is where i tend to recommend using the best quality you can afford. I have changed to new RCA's in the past to a very "blanket off the speakers" effect. Especially moving from shielded line level transmitting rca, to short, ground shielded rca runs if you can. Cable interferance, capacitance, and inductance on these runs will be exaggerated at the power stage. Everywhere you have rca's besides turntable to phono stage needs to be as short as is possible, with as little dc resistance ,cable capacitance, and inductance as you can possibly achieve without experiencing interference. But even then, ground shield cables sound better then true shielded thanks to the cable capacitance of a very small high impedance signal running with a dielectric between two discrete conductors. You just may have no choice depending on the levels of interference in your environment. I see people being sold and recommending really expensive shielded loudspeaker cables too. Unless you live at the base of a hill covered in AM radio stations (some people do) this is only hindering their experience of their system. Guaranteed
You can get cables with fantastic RLC specs and build quality for price in the hundreds of dollars range. Anything more than that is audio jewellery.
"Anything more than that is audio jewellery" - is there anything wrong with jewelry?
@@TheDanEdwards
Audio Jewelry is just money wasting nonsense.
Will do nothing to the sound.
Not sure what RLC specs in cables have to do with sound.
@@Bassotronics if it looks better, it tastes better.
@@ramsaybolton9099
😂
Nicely put - just love the simplicity 😀😀
I think Cardas is an excellent company with solid, bona fide technology and top quality materials. Their beyond Clear line is not cheap- but it is not 20k either. It was about 10k for balanced interconnects, digital cable and 2 meters of speaker cable. My system is north of 100 K and it was well worth the investment. Rule of thumb is 5% of your system budget should go to cables/interconnect.
I'm sorry but that's a completely flawed logic.
I like food, I go to many michelin star restaurants. What is the price of a bottle of water in those restaurants? $100? No it's not, it's the same price than in any other restautant.
$200 gives you the best cables you can buy, made out of professional Canare cables and Neutrik connectors. It's not a percentage, it's a fix amount. There is absolutely no logic behind the percentage, the only logic is to make you spend more.
Guess I can afford about $75 then .Lol. I do find all of this interesting though and wish I could afford more.
@@Maxime-ho9iv If you say so. So lets say you have a system that's 100,000. Are you going to invest 5k for cable and interconnect or 200 dollar cable? Are you the least bit curious how cable materials and construction affect sound quality? I don't follow your logic.
@@johnloupis2347 Well it does depend on your resources John, and the resolution of your system. There will be a huge segment of those with systems who won't hear the difference in their particular set up.
Hi, Paul. First of all thanks for your videos. I agree with what was said before, great way of approaching the topic.
Question for you: What cables are you using at Octave Records?
If they are worth it to you then they are worth every penny.
One of these days I am going to do a speaker cable upgrade, I am going to go from 14/2 Romex to 12/2 or possibly the cloth covered twisted lamp cord that Amazon sells, $25 for 32'
I have two former BBC sound engineers in my family who will tell you that lampflex is as good as anything when it comes to speaker cable
Expensive cables are one of the reasons high end audio as a hobby is laughed at. I can justify my
high end BMWs cost as the measured performance and material/build quality is there. Telling someone to just "feel the deeper connection to the music " with an expensive cable makes you a tool. 😆
Once in a past I used for speakers connection a cable which was produced ( I believe) before 1939. Just because i had it at reach of hand. It was durable - no plastic used only cotton and bronse tiny wires wrapping completly the cotton strings preserving ease of bending and not crcking. Extremly usefull and dedicated for electric Irons. The audio signals in top band were very sweet and appealing Seems to me nobody would buy it even for free because it was looking as cable for iron.
This must be the well known Western Electric cable which has won the hearts of many audiophiles. It's made by tinned copper in cotton wrapping. Duelund from Denmark uses the same idea and makes cables for a variety of thicknesses. You may be interested...
@@AndMakrid Realy interesting that today this type somebody adopted. . Few years ago I adopted so called "lyca" wiring and it has shown some gain above 10 kHz . But it was a bit complicated installation. preserving for industance reasons additional 1 inch distance between wires and after years I gave it up for convinent standard wiring. 10-12 kHz in my case wins e game enough rgds
That is one helluva answer Paul. Non-committal yet makes oh so much sense. All for the love of sound
Better off buying a $20,950 pair of Speakers and a $50 pair of cables.
5000 for speakers and 5000 for room acoustics would blow away your 20000 dollar speakers
@@Harald_Reindl Your better off buying a $ 9,900 pair of speakers and spending $100 on Room Acoustic. $5,000-must be in the Garage.
@@james6039 you are clueless - 50% of what you hear is the room and BTW here in Europe our buildings are solid and not such a joke like in the USA that when one shoots down his computer the fridge of the neighbour is killed with the same bullet
@@Harald_Reindl Maybe I should have said it different. I'm more of a believer in the Room rather Hi-End Room Acoustics. IMO the Room is the 2nd most important thing. However - if you have to spend $5000 on Room Acoustics use a different room or get some wall-to-wall carpeting, some drapes, a nice sofa and lazyboy (no leather).
@@james6039 I doubt that I can buy a new apartment with 5000 dollars and bass don't care about carpets nor do carpets or furniture work full range - you have no clue - period
I use Linn K20 speaker cable because they publish specification that meet the Naim’s spec requirements. I don’t see other cable companies publishing specs. Audio doesn’t know there specs, I asked them.
Come on Paul. I get you have to say this and I own many of your products at home. I even have a 45k home theatre system and there is no time where cables have made a jot of difference to the sound quality or video. It's this simple, the cable needs to have good shielding from interference and be OFC. If you have those two properties you are going to be fine and notice no difference. We don't even need to go into the numerous tests that have been carried out, where it shows a slight difference in frequency response that would be impossible for a human ear to detect.
If companies like Audio Quest were so confident, then they would have a booth at shows where they prove it to you with blind A/B tests. In my many years of visiting high end shows I have never seen this happen.
Ultimately, if the consumer wants to spend his/hers well earned money on a cable because they like the look of it, then go right ahead.
People can't hear the difference and some people can and I've seen and even experienced blind tests myself where I and others can pick it out consistently. I think really the people that can't just get really upset and jump up and down because they don't believe that other people just have better hearing.
That said I'm talking about the difference between cheap off of the spool stuff and a pair of $300 speaker cables as a pair.
In car audio it really makes a difference. I installed car stereos for 8 years and I can tell you right now that every time I put in cheap cabling I knew they'd be back for noise even if I took both sides of the car apart to make sure that I ran the power and the signal cables on opposite sides of the car.
Agreed, cables are over priced. I don’t have a expensive system, $5k. I use Linn K20 cables because they have specifications that meet the spec requirements of my Naim Nait5si. I contacted AudioQuest and inquired about their cable specs and they responded that don’t know. If cables are so important why aren’t measurable specs published and manufacturers recommending certain specs. In another inexpensive system I use 14 gauge solid copper from LOWES. Twist them together and add banana plugs. Sound fine.
If you look at the science behind what is supposed to be a quality cable, you can make your own with pretty good results if you do it right. Lots of things to consider. The cable, the shielding in the cable, the copper quality, the purity of the connectors. Will still cost more than spool crap, but not $20,000. That's just stupid, in my opinion.
@@codfishknives8526 Exactly and you don't have to spend way too much. II spent a total of $175.50 for my 5.1 channel home theater with bi-amped towers. Not as good as the old cables I used to have but sound quite good to me.
Now if I could still get my hands the z series cable from all those years ago I would. I personally don't see value in something over a few hundred dollars for nice shielded, pure, well terminated wire with a quality dialectric as I can't hear a difference past that but if others do more power to them. Oh and ALWAYS twisted pair signal cables.
Not sure why this comes up over and over. It’s pretty easy. Go buy a $500+ pair of cables and compare it against what you’re already using. Decent cables of varying kinds (speaker, coax, hdmi, rca, xlr, etc) run between $25-100.
I am a graduated musician and have experience with hifi-equipment. Sometimes I do hear differences between cables and sometimes I don't. How is that possible? I have no idea.
Like this hotel I used to work at, someone vomited in the hallway, was not cleaned properly, sometimes it smelt, other times no smell.
because you can play with capacitance/resistance and create a filter with cable. Which is just dumb.
“I did it cuzz I can”. Mic drop.
monoprice speaker wires work just fine. I've also been had by one brand of rca cables that began degrading with loss of signal.
I am wondering if peope compare the sound of their old cables with the newly acquired high end cable, interpret it partly as due to better design and materials as I think often oxidation of the old one is often forgotten. The first thing I do once the system is not sounding well anymore is cleaning the contacts with deoxit, stripping the wire ends and readjust speaker positioning.... even the cleanup of the listening room sometimes helps😅... what a grazy hobby this is.
I have no opinion because I’ve never used anything other than ordinary cables. But I think assessing the benefit requires double blind testing; which no one seems willing to do in any controlled, systematic; statistically meaningful way. And I think that, ironically, the fact that no one is willing to provide this answer, provides the answer.
This is a common (and fine) statement but it might miss the target just a bit. It’s the equivalent to saying that we need research to find out which bag carries lipstick better, a Gucci or the plastic one from the grocery store? In terms of functionality, not much of a difference, but if you can afford the Gucci you will likely enjoy it more, feel more pride of ownership, want to show it off, and claim that it indeed carries your lipstick better than other bags. No science required.
@@thomass.9167 I agree with that. However, I object to purveyors who insist there is a functional difference, worth the money, and will not offer the proof I describe. I have no problem with the fool and his/her money that you describe. They get what they want or deserve.
@@edd2771 Well, it’s easy to claim there is a functional difference without offering any proof. Consumers (with money to spend) assume something is better because it is made of more exotic materials, looks better, and has a fancy name. Works for Audioquest just as well as it works for Gucci. From what I can tell, both companies do well. 😀
@@thomass.9167 yes, this the reason for me making the comment here and elsewhere. Someone like Paul would be the ideal person to do it, but he’s too vested in it. So he essentially gives the issue a pass while appearing avuncular and even-handed. I think he is a stand up guy and this channel is excellent, but he is a special kind of devious when it comes to topics of this nature.
Way to go:
Decide how much money you’re willing to spend on your cables.
Then find the ones that you think are the best in that price segment.
How hard can it be...😆
Very fine advice, Sir. But, you forgot one thing. Humans are always suspicious (and envious?) of things contained in the price bracket above what they, themselves, can afford, and must therefore refer to it as “snake oil” and other similarly meaningless terms.
@@thomass.9167 "Some" humans......
People used to ask me with my Jeep "whats your next modification?" They would look at me dumbfounded when I would say I have it right where I want it. Same with my Lotus, got it to where I wanted and have kept it the same for the last 6 years. I now have my system where I want it and it won't change probably till I die.
I don't envy my rich friends I look at them with pride on what they have accomplished. I learned long ago "live within you means"
$50-$100...
Ill make them myself. Could sell them for $500-$1000 or more.
@@thomass.9167
Ok, I’m no saint. I’ve been there too investing in cables more expensive than my equipment could benefit from.
It’s clear that very expensive high end equipment will benefit more from expensive cables than something like my moderately priced units will. That’s my personal experience too. There definitely is a difference in terms of sound quality when it comes to cables but high end cables won’t work miracles on more inferior equipment...
A friend more experienced when it comes to hifi than me once gave me an advice; buy cables for about 1/10 of the money the two units you’ll connect cost together. That’s roughly the price segment you should be searching in. I’ve been following that advice since😊
Your best most honest irrefutable answer to a punters questions yet.
I am new to the world of HiFi, in fact with my gear you would probably say I've yet to arrive. I have started with vintage gear from eBay, and everything I've added has made a big improvement to my listening pleasure. I was staggered when I connected up an old Chord Mojo, spent the whole night listening and discovering new sounds. I understand there are diminishing returns here, and somehow count myself fortunate that my wallet will prevent me from chasing tiny improvements to sound quality, at huge expense.
Never forget the music is inside your head and totally subjective. Never forget it is about pleasure, and that's your own. I pity lovers of fine wines who can no longer enjoy more modest vintages. The skill in life is learning to be satisfied, and enjoy yourself. People who can afford obscenely priced cables will never be satisfied, and should be pitied, I feel.
Thank you for the unbiased-ish opinion. Great way to handle that question!
I look at cables as HI-FI jewellery. Almost like nice rims on a sports car. It’s not necessarily needed, but looks neat.
Your speakers are wired with cooper wires. So using silver speaker cables has very little if any effect on the sound, as your system is only as good as the weakest link. PS, I LOVE my Model S Plaid!
$21.000 buys a lot of records!! What I think is especially important in audio cables is a secure mechanical connection. If the contact isn't solid and secure the manufacture and contents of the wiring itself is hypothetical. Anyone who's suffered from a crackly, loose or dirty 'phono connector will know exactly what I mean
21,000 buys you a lot of concert tickets. Or you could go listen to music for free. OR you could pay people to come play at your house with actual instruments. But no-one does. They don't love music. They love spending money and thinking it got them "an experience". What they were sold was an idea.
@@ZeroG84 I think you're right but anyone who can afford to spend that amount of money on cables could probably buy the concert tickets and private concerts as well! It's a strange old world when we have homeless living on the street, earthquake victims begging for relief and audio cables that cost the equivalent of a year's salary sell. C'est la vie...Have a great weekend my friend and thanks for your interest and reply
what about the cabling inside the amplifiers used, most of them are ordinary, do you question the effect of this cabling on the sound as you should?
It's like a teeshirt. One from the dollar store will be thin, made from cheap cotton and hardly withstand a single wash. Spend $50 and the difference is obvious. Materials are far better, it'll be nicer to wear and likely to survive years of washing. In short, the performance is easily and measurably superior. Spend $200 on a teeshirt and the improvement for the additional outlay is difficult to justify. Except of course that it will have a designer label. It's the law of diminishing returns. We used to have two identical systems in our listening room. One was wired with the cheap, thin cable which were in the box with the loudspeakers. The other was hooked up with QED 79 strand. Most customers could tell a difference straight away and we sold a lot of 79 strand. It was a fair upsell and we were confident that the customer's outlay was well spent. Sending twice as much was appropriate too but only if the price and quality of the audio components warranted it. But, just in the teeshirt analogy, there comes a point where the audible difference is probably hard to hear and beyond a certain price ceiling you're probably wasting your money. But, there's obviously kudos and bragging rights to be had by buying the very best.
I find this sales presentation slyly deceptive. where the expert says what he does, while recommending against it, but not with any solid reasons provided . Thus he avoids conflicts with known hearing science, and his own credibility, somewhat, while still avoiding a yes or no answer to a simple electronics question that the head of an electronics company already knows.
I use Tributaries Cables on my Hi-Fi system. I'm happy with them.
Paul did give a fantastic answer as he always do. It's sad we're from different countries and I'll probably never have a chance to visit PS Audio to meet him but it's obvious that he express his honest opinions even if they may do harm to his company's trade and this is an insanely rare quality you can find in hi-fi businness. The proof is in the pudding but here is the answer. You can't compare a $5 cable with $1000 cable because both material quality (copper or silver purity for example) and engineering (solutions for screening or welding techiques for example) and also standardisation of the production processes will higly probably way better for a $1000 cable. But guess what, you can compare a $1000 usd cable with a $20,000 cable and actually you can find the $1000 one the best. There is a quality limit after a certain level regardless of production techniques and after that point, every penny you spend goes to a tiny tiny tiny fraction of overall quality of the cable that even its manufacturer can not spot in an objective A/B test. In addition, you're going to need a very expensive speakers and amplifiers and other auxiliary devices like power conditioners in order to reveal that tiny tiny tiny fraction of the information in the signal. All in all, imdividual equipment costs should be in balance for your hi-fi gear and the most expensive ones should be speakers and (pre-power) amplifiers without a doubt. A reasonable approach for cable costs problem is like the cost of the cables in the takes %10 - %15 of the total cost of the gear without cables. For example, if you have a gear totals $10,000 without cables then $1000-$1500 cost for all cables in the system cables is just fine. Remember, speakers create the actual sound from the signal and amplifiers create the signal (excluding turntables). Since creating is way more difficult than transporting the biggest portion of the total money should go to them.
Very good analysis, that kind of clear decision making is why you can afford them
Paul, I really appreciate your videos. I wish there had been more of a discussion about cables making a difference on more revealing systems. I think there may be diminishing returns for us mere mortals with lower to mid range systems, say $5-10K range. Any thoughts?
Do you have an opinion about Transparent cables? I am considering switching from audioquest to transparent for rca and loudspeaker cables. In my tests the power chords from audioquest are superior (digital too). In regard of rca/loudspeaker cables the clear winner for me is transparent (to much lower cost)
One of the biggest improvements I've made to my setup was switching from audioquest black lab RCAs to chord shawline RCAs
I was so impressed I actually switched all my speaker cables for also!
I bet you don't use them in your Octave Studios. In my view there is a basic standard beyond which diminishing returns kick in massively
beauty in eye of beholder. I believe in one or 2 steps up from ' basic' -the cheap cables often supplied with DVD players etc. that is Monster type interconnects. and I used 14 ga pure copper cable (radio shack ) for 25 years, the same set - no problem. less than $1. a foot. ** what is inside the 75 ohm cable that transports 100 chan of high def video and multi chain audio - the wire between the poles along street.( has to be, has to be WAY more info than 2 ch. stereo. come on.) is that like 20 or 18 ga basic wire ?
I feel exonerated with my choice. I'll stick to my tried and true 18 gauge lamp cord that I've been using since my high school days.
What often goes unsaid in the high end audio community with regard to all components, especially cables is the psychological effect known as” immediate hearing comparisons vs delayed hearing comparisons. Components priced “ reasonably” ( 1k- 1.5k each) set up properly in a nicely treated room can sound absolutely incredible. More importantly, your distant memory of a better sounding system will have little effect on your feelings toward your current set up. Immediate A-B comparisons are different and can effect your feelings accordingly. Bottom line: use great source material, be patient with treatments and set up and just learn to love what you have. Your joy will be further enhanced by staying away from the immediate AB comparisons
I have long decided that my stuff is adequate. I stopped chasing the dragon...and certainly don't believe nirvana is in a cable :-)
I disagree that an A/B comparison should be stayed away from when setting up a system in your own listening room. Especially when talking about cables. If you're comparing one single component and you can't hear an appreciable difference between the cheaper (say $100-500) and the expensive one (price of a car), you've just been sold something. It is precisely because of snake oil claims that people need to test, compare, and listen for themselves to avoid an 'Emperor's Clothes' experience or just getting ripped off.
If ONLY I could find a way to connect those special cables directly into my ears, I know I would be astounded.
Someone tried to sell me Monster Cable interconnects. I said I would try them ONLY if I could bring them back if I wasn't satisfied. He agreed.
Left channel = Monster Cable Right channel = $1.95 cable from Radio Shack.
I put on the headphones and could not hear a difference. I then used an adapter to lengthen the cheap cable to 12 feet. Listening test showed no difference again. Only with no input and the gain cranked way up I could hear a bit of hiss in that channel.
I got my refund the next day. I've since upgraded to $5.00 cables with gold plated connectors.
My ears and bank account are both happy.
@dj Kplus You got a better one? ROFL
@dj Kplus Exactly as stated in my OP. I put on the headphones to see if I could hear a difference between L & R channels.
@dj Kplus How?
@dj Kplus I've seen a lot of audio snake oil sold that way. People expect $$$ to sound better so it does.
Left vs Right makes differences in quality stick out like a sore thumb. Hiss, buzz, hum, lack of high frequency, attenuated signal etc. You'll hear it in one ear and not the other. And for the sake of thoroughness, switch the L+R cables around in case the source material has a quality difference between L+R.
@dj Kplus If the $$$$ interconnect is so wonderful, that channel will sound better than the cheap channel. Period. End of story.
As for your method, let me tell you a true story...
One day my roommate came home to see me behind the TV with a Nintendo screen displayed. He asked me what I was doing and I told him I was moving the Nintendo from channel 3 to Line In to get a better picture. He said, "Yeah, it does look better." I replied, "I haven't switched it over yet."
Hi Paul, should I get a lambo? Which one do you recommend? Thanks
Great answer to the question Paul!
Have you checked out Iconoclast cables? Made by Belden and one of their top engineers to maximize performance based on LCR measurements as well as others. I’ve only tried their lower cost BAV interconnects so far and they beat my longtime budget favorite, Kimber PBJ.
I get why a lot of guys don’t understand cables. I grew up with cheap electronics and it never got in the way of loving music. But the first time I tried a better than average cable I absolutely heard more information. I heard more detail at lower volumes. And these weren’t ridiculously over priced cables. I paid $80. I always wondered why I could barely understand lyrics in some songs. Then I heard how those average cables are masking and diminishing the recording. They’re robbing you of details. Of course an even bigger factor is proper speaker placement and room treatment. Without those you may not hear many differences in cables. If you can’t bother to do that then maybe better cables aren’t necessary for you. Which is all good. Spend your money wherever you want.
Without enough room treatment, there will be too much echo (out of phase) sound to hear any difference, if there is any difference.
Paul is spot on here. Cables make a difference to those it makes a difference to. I will say that I've noticed bad cables versus well constructed ones.
But that braindead nonsense isn't about bad and well constructed! It's about morons which claim a cable could to more than transmit electrical signals unaltered from output to input and that's bullshit
I think there's a "right fit" for a given installation, not necessarily "the more expensive, the better".
I think the biggest differences in cables are due to impedance matching with the amp and speakers. Different cables will have different resistances, and really that and shielding are the only things that really matter with regards to how a cable affects a speaker's performance. I think that in blind testing where people do hear differences between cables, it's because one set couples the speakers to the amp better than another set. However to do that, a cable doesn't have to be super expensive, it just has to be the right thickness and length. Famously Troels Gravesen of Jantzen audio, a designer of world class DIY speakers, just uses cheap twisted speaker cables for his speakers.
Well said.
I also like to look at the longevity of the cables too. How long will it last me? 3 months... 6 months? a year... maybe 3 years? ... 10 years? Will my tin-coated copper cable brand name cable be
better than some off brand?
Like he said in the video, to paraphrase: if you want to spend the money, then who's stopping you? If you're on a budget, do what you must;
Just do your research.
Laughable bullshit - which resistance are you talking about? Did you visit a school in your life?
@@Harald_Reindl Doesn't any piece of metal have some amount of resistance?
@@CockatooDude don't you have some basic education? That resistance is that small that it don't matter at all - even if it would be big it's not frequency dependent and so at the end of the day compensated by just turn the volume up - you morons really should visit a school and avoid alcohol and other drugs
When listening, I prefer not to put up with the faint background signal noise (noise floor)
One should try pressing pause or mute, and from the MLP, if one is unable to differentiate whether the systems are off or on, that's telling you your cables are crap.
When friends or guests come around rather than showing them how loud the system goes, I prefer to press pause/mute and show them how quiet it goes. None of them gets it, of course 😂
Silence is golden.
Best video ever made about cables! Congratulations. I love it.
What about diminishing returns? Has to be some price point I would think
Right. It's probably a few hundered bucks.
Buy the best cables you can afford, they are worth it.
VERY well said!!! I agree with you one million percent!
I couldn’t do without my AQ and Chord cables. They really complete the over all sound of the system. Taking them out and replacing them with freebee’s makes everything sound flat. I find that cables improve the systems sound stage massively. With my expensive cables I get a clear precise sound stage which appears to be three dimensional. Everything has its place and I can follow complex music far easier. Cables are just as much a part of the system as the amp, source or speakers are. What’s the point in spending loads of money on expensive HiFi and then wiring it up with some cheap means to an end cable. If one can’t afford high end cables, just buy entry level from a proper cable company that actually understands HiFi signals and how to maintain them.
Paul ! Absolutely Loved this one. Cables -I have Robin Hood . Do I need them, No! , do I love them Yes! Check .. Cars- I have a BMW . Do I need it? No! Do I love it? Yes! Check ! I’m with you , Paul, all the way ! Thank you for another great video!
Summing up the essence of our hobby
This is the biggest non-answer I’ve ever heard. There’s no technical evaluation, there’s no scientific reasoning, there is just “I do it because I can“. What a waste of time
It’s a luxury product, designed for the select few who can afford it. No science required. At that price point of non-essential products, it’s all about “I want them” as opposed to “not one person in the world needs them”. No one needs a Rolls Royce either, but they’re sort of a nice thing if you’ve got the dough.
@@thomass.9167 Stop calling this "luxury". This is a diverted way to use the word, in a world that does not value anything anymore.
True luxury exists and true luxury is great. All luxury is not scam, and scam is certainly not luxury.
@@Maxime-ho9iv Kind Sir, I did not call anything a scam. I called it a luxury product, meaning something no one needs but some people with big bank accounts may choose to buy. “Luxury” is not s derogatory term, but rather one reserved for items that take what is basic and functional, and add expensive features that make the buyer feel as if he got s superior product.
@@thomass.9167 You didn’t call it scam, but I did.
You mixed stuff. Luxury is not what you think it is.
I have lot of luxury items in my life. Some people put their heart and soul into making luxury products.
Those snake oil cables are not luxury, they are pure vaporware.
At HiFi Shows, remember those, there will be six figures plus systems of electronics & the cables/cords/wire will cost more.
Especially if it's a Cable Company room.
wisdom that came from u, it's like when there's a time back then when im still smoking, well everyone know they are bad for health so i never recommend it, but hell im smoking it, but i've quit them 12 years now
That was a carefully crafted answer but at least he kept some honesty. Perhaps an even more honest approach that still SHOULDN'T offend anyone would be to say - Don't just go by what somebody else says. Try out those cables for yourself (if you can afford them of course). Do some A/B comparisons. Try lower and higher cost and see if it's really worth it to your own ears (and wallet). In my own experience, I've heard massive differences between cheap, thin $5-$10 cables and thicker $50-$100 cables - simply because they could handle the signal better. On the other hand, when I tried some more expensive stuff, I was rather disappointed. Unfortunately, there's alot of folks out there that will just try to sell you something. As everyone's ears and hearing are a bit different, I think it's important to listen and compare for yourself and buy what YOU like - which I think agrees with what he said here.
Have you ever tried Audio Sensibility OCC interconnects and cables?
I don't know I think what happens is at the end of the day and what matters most is to the person buying the product. I mean you may call me a fool or whatever I don't care, but if I can hear a difference between a $500 cable and a $5 cable then it's worth the extra $495 to me.
And I think that's what matters most, people shouldn't be made to feel bad or stupid for spending their money on products that make their experience better to them. I've got a full nordost setup, everything from purple flare to Blue heaven and some 2 flat speaker cables and my system sounds better than it ever has. Does that mean I'm an idiot for spending that money, maybe, but what matters is I'm happier when I turn on my hi-fi system to listen to my music.
it is all between the ears of the audiophile.if a 10 foot pair of speaker wire cut from a spool bought from home depot sounds as good as a pair of audio quest cables then they will sound just as good if the owner of cheaper pair thinks so.i personally have silver sonic speaker cables and inter connects in my system and they sound great.
Friendly advice, just cuz you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.
OR, perhaps the opposite is true?? Maybe you should just CUZ you can?
@@thomass.9167 sure, sometimes 👍
I worked at an electronics lab that encouraged after hours home projects as it would hone the skills. My boss decided to make the ultimate hifi system. Two points became very clear. Firstly if you were playing music at 4w per channel and wanted to replicate a cymbal crash without clipping you needed 300W per channel into 8 ohm load. We laughed at his calculations and set out to prove him wrong...we didnt. The second was an examination of speaker wire. Not through inaccurate listening tests - we tested them by using sig gens and spectrum analysers. First - gild plating doesnt make a damned difference as long as the cable is properly tightened and secondly that there was no gain over a high amperage multi core of fine wire in a figure of 8 configuration......in other like heavy weight bell wire. We had the best kit that money could buy and it was clear expensive speaker leads area waste.
If only I was able to listen with equipment and not with my ears. Since I do, the "scientific tests" are irrelevant, at least until the measurement equipment can fully replicate what our ears/brain will hear. The inadequacy of the testing equipment is the fly in the ointment.
Most ill spend on a cable is about 500$. I currently use isotek, tellurium Q, chord company. I classify them as aesthetics. Dont expect a difference in sound quality
For a small kid, a candy can be the center of the world. As the kid grows up though, that candy is not satisfying enough. That dissapointment is the punishment of Erysichthon - the price we pay for experience and purpose - and is a part of life.
I can still enjoy a good bottle of wine but an experienced sommelier can be as miserable as myself, the audiophile.
"Do you really claim that the glass plays a role?".
Do cables make a difference?
And now the blind AB Test...
don't hold your breath...
Every blind ab test has failed to tell the difference between cables.
@@kyron42 I don't think that is entirely correct. I.e. for speakers it makes sense to have big copper cables with gold plated connectors. They are definitely better than thin cables and bad connectors. But after thick copper and gold plated connectors there is not much to add to makes them even better.
@@edgar9651 yes once you have a good connection and resistance is very small compared to speaker resistance there's no significant difference.