And yet he shit on him in this video. Paul was one of the guys giving the advice of using snap caps to surprise you. I assume that, like other instructors, it's only for beginners to learn how to pull the trigger straight to the rear, but it's still the same thing Hop is going after.
@@BHRxRACER why would having a strongly different opinion constitute as "shitting on him"?! seriously... How did we reach the point where people are so incapable of conducting intelligent conversations, they believe just merely having a different opinion is already a huge disrespect. I respect Paul Harrell and I have never doubted his knowledge and experiences for a second. My instructor who is a former counter-terrorist SFC, also teaches many things differently than how Paul did. So what?? Even Paul said countless times that he is not teaching how you should do things, he is just telling you what worked for him.
@@tyrisnolampeople don’t understand nuance. If Hop disagrees with Paul, then it must be because Hop hates Paul and is, therefore, shitting on him. We give too many idiots access to the internet.
@@Nathan-zw7nq You're unable to have a nuanced view on the internet, it's "us" vs "them" - now slot whomever you want into whichever group you want and start yelling like your buddy just threw a box of .22's on the fire and the cat's climbing the christmas tree.
The trigger finger placement fuddlore killed my shooting. An instructor told me to try hooking the trigger further down my finger cuz I have bigger hands. This virtually eliminated my slight leftward bias as a righty.
An instructor told me to use just the tip of my finger. It worked because it was a good cue to isolate my trigger finger squeeze and not shake with the rest of my hand. But once I figured it out I switched back to what was comfortable for trigger placement
@@HaloDude557 I prefer to use the fold of my finger and not my finger tip like a lot of people. I really Hate flat triggers, because most are wide with sharper edges that make you use your finger tip... but when I use my finger tip it causes me to pull my shots. I never had a problem when I shot "normally" by wrapping my finger around the trigger. I know straight triggers can lead to better shooting... but I don't think they have to be "flat faced" and I think the wide flat faced triggers are garbage and I expect they'll stop making guns with them in a couple years. I actually really like the more partially curved triggers, like the Apex trigger kit they make for the S&W SD VE series guns (like the SD9, SD9VE, SD40 and maybe also the Sigma series like the SW9 VE). It has a slight curve vertically... but it also has a curve horizontally, so it's not flat faced. "Keep Tinkering" sells triggers for the Taurus G2 and G3 series guns too that are really good too. He has some lightly curved triggers that are very comfortable.
@@deucedeuce1572 everyone’s different, so just do whatever works for you. Key point is to isolate the muscles moving your trigger finger. You don’t want the rest of your hand/forearm flexing which can cause shots pulled in other directions.
Master class in misdirection. Troll the ammo nerds by using white box. Troll the 2011 nerds with a striker gun. Troll the Glock dweebs by recommending a hammer gun on a slow mo camera. Troll the practice how you fight geeks by mocking ball and dummy. Troll the Benbros by saying push down to manage recoil. Absolute art.
@@bilson7523 Target ammo is often on a white box. It's usually a composite bullet that is very light grain and low recoil not real FMJ lead bullets. It is usually slightly more expensive so the only people that use it are those who can't handle recoil.
This fudd lore shooting "advice" is also alive and well in big Navy SOP for small arms training, coming from the mouth of a Gunner's Mate Second Class. More emphasis was put on finger placement on the trigger than aiming the weapon. I've just learned to never let anybody try to tell me anything again.
Oh boy, one of my fellow airmen failed shotgun quals becuase one of the instructors told him to aim below the target, because, and I quote: "the recoil will put your sights on target, and you won't miss." I felt ashamed of the Air Force after that one, lol
@@nfaisnfgay My PMI was solid as a rock. He knew fuddlore from mechanical advantages, and taught me a lot, even though I started shooting 5 years before he was born. Some vets are based. Some not. Just like civies.
@@Ranstone Citizens have a sharper bell-curve, they're either pretty solid or completely useless. Most military personnel are in the "kinda sucks" middleground.
The title of the video already told me all I need to know, so I just skipped to the socko part. Might watch the actual video sometime in the next few weeks.
I went through basic when the whole "you should only contact the trigger with the very tip of your finger" bit of fuddlore was still taught. I'm 6'5" and have hands roughly the size of frying pans. Needless to say, it screwed up my grip and drilled bad habits so deep I'm still trying to break out of them 20 years later. The misplaced confidence of instructors is a terrifying thing.
I used to watch your old game reviews back when I first started my own channel and it's wild that this video showed up on my timeline today. Nice to see we both kind of found out calling on here. Killer advice too. This video has me wishing for some range time to put some of this into action.
Shotgun instructor here. The first part of the video is something i try to teach so many other instructors. Im blessed enough in the setting im in, i have taught about 25k people. Ive seen every issue you can as a shotgun shooter. Every problem is different.
Besides lots of dry firing, 22lr and air pistols really help me. They allow me to be more experimental with techniques and targets without the cost penalty of centerfire weighing on my conscience.
I wasn’t a firearms instructor, but I have helped a lot of people learn the basics of shooting. I agree that for people who are familiar with firearms, the dummy round test is mostly bs. However, it has helped me convince some people that no, their iron sights are not off, they are moving their hand before they shoot. Sometimes people close their eyes before they shoot and don’t even realize it. While I don’t think it’s an amazing training aid, I do think it at least gives people who are VERY new to firearms the concept of what they are doing before they shoot.
When I was a kid my dad made me practice dime and washer drills in the living room and become sufficient before he would take me hunting again. The first deer I got took me 9 rounds of 30/30 to kill and he thought that was embarrassing marksmanship. I actually think this was really good practice. Without shooting all that much as a teen I ended up getting expert in the Army right off the bat. I just applied the Army's lessons to what I practiced with my dad and rifle shooting has always come easy for me.
They did this in basic training to teach trigger control as well. A battle buddy would put a dime on the flash suppressor of my M16 and I'd practice pulling the trigger without knocking it off. Do this 10 times consecutively then trade off. We practiced this in the squad bay for a week before BRM and qual.
Are those newer? I don't recall ever eating a pizza MRE. I've eaten quite a lot of MREs since about 2014. I can see how it wouldn't be all that great. I wish there were more like the chicken fajitas and chili mac. Even the vegetarian ones were pretty good. And call me crazy but those flat muffin desserts were not bad (considering it's a MRE, not homemade baked goodness)
You’re so right about this! I realized that I still flinch. I used to have a very bad issue with it and my pistol shooting. I eventually found that my flinch is post bullet out of the barrel. Even my bad days I still shoot good. This is a trip. I have been thinking about this exact situation lately and you nailed it. I realized when I ride the slide lock I’m obviously still flinching but…. It happened after the round left the barrel. Great concept you laid out here!
@@jason200912 I'm not even going to diginify that with a response. Shit! I just responded. OK, fuck it. It's Hop's handsome cat, who often has a cameo at the end of the video.
Thanks for indicating me. I shot today for my CCW qualification. Using a new gun(Hellcat pro) that I've only had a chance to shoot once. Kept pulling the shots low and left and knew I was pushingles it as I have large hands. The instructor said I should be just using the pad of my finger but I told her I was literally reaching back with my finger to just use the pad. I'm left handed just to add. I felt more comfortable contacting the trigger closer to the joint in my finger since I could therefore get a fuller grip on the pistol.
As usual, loved ur vid!! As a long-time hand-gun shooter(6 DECADES), I am a Hook-finger!!( And, dammed comfortable w/it!!) It is my belief that the "200 round break-in" is just as much shooter acclimation to particular firearm, as it is to "break-in" the firearm itself. Continuing, a person SHOULD NOT EXPECT to become EXPERT within a few rounds. They should be honest w/themselves/ don't "freak-out" over mistakes, expect to learn "as-you-go"/ learn to PLINK, rather than focus on immediately becoming MARKSMAN OF THE YEAR!!! And, I totally agree w/ you on "Flinching & Recoil are the same, Timing is everything".( My wife uses this technique VERY EFFECTIVELY, and is also a DECADES-LONG hand-gun/rifle shooter) Lastly, TY very much for vid, entertaining+informative, and will re-watch a few times!!
That was probably the best ad I've on "guntube". I've never wanted to buy MREs more. Plus, some of mine are 10+ years old so I should look into replacing them.
@@CertifiedSunset Yeah, the military ones are probably still good to go but these are from a company called Food Insurance which I don't think exists any more. Everything is still sealed, dry and has been kept at a steady temperature (mostly) but hopefully it's still good. I also got some from MyPatriotSupply. There's lots of private companies that make MREs and I'm not sure how they compare in terms of nutrition to the military ones or if they last as long.
The focus should be hold on to the gun in a way that you can aggressively pull the trigger on target and have the sights or dot predictively return to your point of aim . And that can only be found through trial and error everyone will do things a little differently
I second the emotion with alcohol. As a native of Vancouver, WA, I can tell ya he doesn't get enough rain water for photosynthesis to catch, since he's in a pub. Feed 'im pizza... 😎
For years I've watched people set up their rifles and run drills *exactly* how they see their favourite guntubers do it, instead of thinking for themselves. I'm very glad we're moving away from that.
The only thing to consider for "flinching" is changes in grip pressure. Consistency is key. You will see a lot of people maintain proper grip until they go to pull the trigger and they reflexively squeeze and throw their shots off.
@@Hoplopfheil I suspect it's a wear thing. The only autoforwarding handgun I have is my old Tanfoglio Force 99 and that gun was pretty high mileage before I bought it. Barrel was fully copper fouled, recoil spring was an inch shorter than it was supposed to be, the works.
@@Hoplopfheil It was pushed a bit as a feature on the CZ P-10 series, later stopped. Some modified the 75 series slide stop bolt to have that early on. I don't like it at all.
Magpul Dynamic Handgun DVDs had Chris Costa teaching what angle to smack the baseplates on M&Ps and Beretta 92s to cause auto forwarding as a "reload technique" 😂
I like the spirit of this video. I have seen so many people, expert and wannabe alike refer to techniques as "correct" rather than as a certain approach. For example, many tutorials and gun channels talk about the "correct" grip for a double action revolver. I consider that to be merely the traditional grip. As for my hands and my revolvers, when I grip it the traditional way, I lose some contact with the handle as it knots up and elevated my palm heel off the handle. Seriously, when I use the double action grip, you could place your pinky under my support hand palm heel. I prefer to use the thumbs forward grip that I use on my auto-loaders. I get significantly more contact with the handle, it's more comfortable for me, and I don't have to train two different grips to be able to shoot both types of pistol. The classic objection is that I could injure my thumbs if they get in front of the cylinder gap. That's true but it's irrelevant to me because with every revolver I've ever shot, I couldn't get my thumbs forward of the cylinder gap with anything near a normal grip orientation. Second, I'm aware of that issue and as such I check and make sure I don't do that. On a similar note, I had to modify a lot of advice I was giving to my wife on her grip because her hands are too small to reach the trigger when she grips the handle the way I do. I could just berate her and tell her that she's doing it wrong, or I can use basic principles to optimize her grip with her hands
This is the main issue I still have in shooting a handgun. I’m still working on speeding up. I didn’t really understand this until watching this, the “cadence” idea is very nice. Thanks, hop.
Very glad someone actually talked about this. I remember reasearching pre/post ignition flinch/push years back and there were very few discussions on it. It made me second guess myself for a time about my "supposed" flinch despite my bullets going where I wanted them to.
So, background, I have shot pistol “seriously” since about 2016. Used to subscribe to the idea of “build a vice, let it rip” where strength, “correct” grip building and chest, back, and arm tension along with grip kept the pistol pretty rock steady through recoil. Yeah, don’t do that. I have really found the content put out by the likes of Ben Stoeger, Joel Young, Matt Pranka, and their collective of folks EXTREMELY HELPFUL. I have completely changed how I approach performance shooting and highly recommend it. Some highlights that contradict the “norm” of pistol recoil management. 1- the exact grip isn’t as interesting as the consistency of the grip and the behavior of the recoil. Ie, 20° of rotation where the sights come back the same exact way each time beats 10° of rotation where the sight is sporadic. 2- visually driving the gun. Your consistent grip should allow you to “drive” the gun solely with vision and intent, or atleast that’s how you should perceive it. Presentation, repeat shots, and transitions should all be driven by your vision and point of focus on the target. “You shoot what you see, for better or worse” 3- think of your “fast” trigger pull the same as the “slow” one, just more aggressive. 4- dry fire should be more aggressive than live, and your range training at a greater level than you’re actually (assembly) required in real life. Your dry fire issues should mimic your live fire problems or it’s by default ineffective. The massive amount of content put out by them has revolutionized my wife and I’s training and perception of handgun and carbine shooting. I highly recommend getting down that rabbit hole, will save you years of frustration, but curse you to constructive frustration (most likely) but you will see gains.
I can't understand how folks can claim to remember where each cap is in their magazines. One mag with two caps? Maybe... 10 caps in 3 magazines, prepped and loaded at random? Not a chance in hell.
I’m a rated master class shooter and I thought I knew most everything about shooting how training others to shoot. Your point blew my mind! It’s very obvious that I still have a lot to learn Thank you for this perspective!
Pre and post ignition pushing makes a lot of sense. I wonder in a sense what the best language is to use when teaching someone who is either a new shooter or a shooter who lacks both confidence and ability when shooting pistols. My brother has a very hard time with handguns and doesn't have a lot of wrist and hand strength due to some medical issues and life choices. I think a lot about how to help him without him getting frustrated, but he ends up often just shooting all over the place when it comes to handguns and it's a little disheartening for both of us. Especially since he gets super shaky after shooting for what I consider a short amount of time, and learning by volume of fire isn't something I can really do with him because of it.
"I'm friends with a lot of Asians so I'm forced to shoot 2011s a lot...." Laughed out loud at that one. Some good info surrounded by much sarcasm. I like it.
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS. I've been saying this for years and just get shrugged off. I shoot a lot of competitions like Steel Challenge, USPSA, 2gun, 3gun, and some rifle only stuff, and over the years I've gotten pretty good with pistols. I tell people that everyone flinches, it's just a matter of when they flinch that determines if they push their rounds down or if they look like they're shooting an airsoft gun where the only thing you see move is the slide. The best way to get better is just more rounds downrange. Very few people are going to shoot flat and fast within their first magazines worth of ammo.
This its honestly such good info for people to understand. You can have 0 flinch at slow fire, but if you are trying to shoot doubles or shooting fast, you have to have some muscle memory to drive the gun back to the target. And if there’s no bang that will likely show up as a “flinch”
I emphasize to students the importance of follow-through in reducing or controlling flinch. I also use the ball/dummy drill, but I do the loading for them. Sometime I don't even tell them there is dummy ammo in the firearm. This allows me to determine how bad a flinch is and in what direction the pistol moves. The ball/dummy drill is also useful in teaching students how to clear malfunctions. The drill itself does not resolve flinching; it only makes students aware they are doing it. Determined, constant practice can reduce flinching, but the threat of it is always present. As students speed up their pace of fire, follow-through and consistent trigger control tend to suffer and flinching is very likely to occur. At extremely close range this is unlikely to present a problem, but it's a good idea to keep backing up the target in at least five foot increments until you are regularly missing it in rapid fire. This lets you know at what range you need to slow down your pace.
Spec Train makes/sells brass cased dry fire ammo weighted exactly like 9mm 147gr rounds. They don’t have rubber primers or whatever (just a hole so the firing pin will hit air like dry firing without a round in the chamber). I really like the more realistic weight with them in my gun. Oh yeah go look at Kinetic Consulting “Dry Fire 1” video for a discount code in the description.
If there is nothing stopping the firing pin, it'll come out further and compress the firing spring more than with ammo. If hammer fired, a fitting brightly colored o-ring can help.
Huh, very very interesting. That showcase at the end is fascinating to me because I’ve subconsciously learned to do that exact thing. When shooting steel I’ve got good recoil control, but the other day i was checking out some high end 9mms and shooting groups on paper and felt super subconscious about how poorly i was controlling them, i eventually started controlling the recoil and probably pretty effectively screwed up my groups. Thank you for answering the question i hadn’t quite fully figured out to ask yet, i love it when that happens
Thanks for the advice, I was wrestling with these subjects at the range yesterday. Some of the advice and hand placement I had heard just wasn't working for me but some basic QOL personal things were working really well.
I was taught 2 types of handgun recoil mitigation. There is an active way(flinching) and passive or framing. A lot of people who "frame" dont flinch were as active people do. People learning "flinch too early. But i like framing because i dont have to learn cadence or action of the different handguns i shoot regularly.
Its crazy how I was just thinking about this last night being new into guns coming from motorbikes. You're taught to brake and clutch with your pads as it offers the most control.
I agree you shouldn't teach almost anyone to go off the trigger guard from the get go, but I've adapted to it in the last few years and it does wonders for recoil control on basically every pistol. It's also very easy to adjust the grip to indexing off of the light (similar to a C clamp on a rifle) and i personally get a much more natural point with this grip. I 100% believe it's not for everyone, but there is a reason to do it. I specifically put lights on all my guns for this sort of modified C clamp, but it's also allowed me to translate my rifle skills to pistol more fluidly.
This makes me feel better. I noticed I had a natural flinch when I had a misfire and thought it was something I needed to correct despite not having any major accuracy issues. I was confused because my accuracy and reacquiring the dot was always much worse when I didn't anticipate the recoil. It makes sense though, of course you have to adjust the moment it goes off if you want accurate follow up shots quickly.
This is the mentality I landed on for a while regarding post-ignition push, and I still sometimes do it for VERY close targets to push speed. However once you shift your focus from “recoil control” to “consistent return” instead, you end up back to not pushing the gun down and just keeping constant and consistent grip pressure, and let the gun do the rest🤙🏼
I think the biggest thing that helped me get better at shooting was loosening up and getting comfortable around gun shots. The first time I went to the range I'll never forget it, I would do a noticeable jump-flinch whenever a shot would go off involuntarily.
I've been playing around with 1-handed bullseye style shooting for a couple months, and I feel like that's helped my handgun game more than anything else. It's all about going slow and hyper-focusing on the little details.
Okay but unironically, thank you for validating my shooting Hop. I was shooting some some 9mm with primers my notaglock wouldn't ignite reliably, and had a really intense recoil correction. I thought I was just shit at pistol shooting, which I might be but not for that reason.
I think there is something to be said for simply sending some doubles and seeing what happens on target. Sometimes i think we spend too much time theorizing and describing what we're supposed to be doing. Proprioceptive abilities arent thought through, you have to just go do it.
Amen brotha. I started shooting much more accurately when I gave up the stupid “pad of the finger tip” thing. My hands are huge and with my long fingers triggers tend to land behind my first knuckle. Fording myself to use the tip of my finger is awkward, and causes me to pull the shots in some weird directions. Bigger grips help, but doing what feels most natural offers the most improvement. FOR ME.
I remember first trying to learn to shoot more or less on my own and all the info out there seemed to be telling me how to "fight/control recoil" so you have little/low muzzle rize. About a year ago I came across an article from a competition shooter (who's name I don't remember, it wasn't Jerry) that basically said that's all wrong: you want to let it do its thing and then guide your handgun back down on sight. I really suck at both
If you really want another snap cap alternative buy Turkish ammo
Which one? Tauran have been preety good, no issue with 500 rounds.
except when you get that birader pissing hot loads
@@Nathan-jh1ho keep buying more
@@bigslice4738this comment was sponsored by Turkish ammo manufacturers
@@Nathan-jh1ho 500 is absolutely nothing.
I liked the Paul Harrell reference "where a man belongs". Just missing the pop tart Hop 😎 Rip Paul Harrell.
And yet he shit on him in this video. Paul was one of the guys giving the advice of using snap caps to surprise you. I assume that, like other instructors, it's only for beginners to learn how to pull the trigger straight to the rear, but it's still the same thing Hop is going after.
@@BHRxRACER why would having a strongly different opinion constitute as "shitting on him"?! seriously... How did we reach the point where people are so incapable of conducting intelligent conversations, they believe just merely having a different opinion is already a huge disrespect. I respect Paul Harrell and I have never doubted his knowledge and experiences for a second. My instructor who is a former counter-terrorist SFC, also teaches many things differently than how Paul did. So what?? Even Paul said countless times that he is not teaching how you should do things, he is just telling you what worked for him.
@@tyrisnolam did you watch the video?
@@tyrisnolampeople don’t understand nuance. If Hop disagrees with Paul, then it must be because Hop hates Paul and is, therefore, shitting on him.
We give too many idiots access to the internet.
@@Nathan-zw7nq You're unable to have a nuanced view on the internet, it's "us" vs "them" - now slot whomever you want into whichever group you want and start yelling like your buddy just threw a box of .22's on the fire and the cat's climbing the christmas tree.
The only recoil and flinching I do is when I see James Reeves in his shorty tennis shorts.
Hot, isn't he
😂
I get a little tremor myself lol
My eyes . . . my eyes!
Speaking of, Hop needs to demo the Crye P. Half jacket crop-top from Venture Surplus in a edc role.
The trigger finger placement fuddlore killed my shooting. An instructor told me to try hooking the trigger further down my finger cuz I have bigger hands. This virtually eliminated my slight leftward bias as a righty.
An instructor told me to use just the tip of my finger. It worked because it was a good cue to isolate my trigger finger squeeze and not shake with the rest of my hand. But once I figured it out I switched back to what was comfortable for trigger placement
@@HaloDude557 I prefer to use the fold of my finger and not my finger tip like a lot of people. I really Hate flat triggers, because most are wide with sharper edges that make you use your finger tip... but when I use my finger tip it causes me to pull my shots. I never had a problem when I shot "normally" by wrapping my finger around the trigger. I know straight triggers can lead to better shooting... but I don't think they have to be "flat faced" and I think the wide flat faced triggers are garbage and I expect they'll stop making guns with them in a couple years. I actually really like the more partially curved triggers, like the Apex trigger kit they make for the S&W SD VE series guns (like the SD9, SD9VE, SD40 and maybe also the Sigma series like the SW9 VE). It has a slight curve vertically... but it also has a curve horizontally, so it's not flat faced. "Keep Tinkering" sells triggers for the Taurus G2 and G3 series guns too that are really good too. He has some lightly curved triggers that are very comfortable.
@@deucedeuce1572 everyone’s different, so just do whatever works for you. Key point is to isolate the muscles moving your trigger finger. You don’t want the rest of your hand/forearm flexing which can cause shots pulled in other directions.
Master class in misdirection.
Troll the ammo nerds by using white box.
Troll the 2011 nerds with a striker gun.
Troll the Glock dweebs by recommending a hammer gun on a slow mo camera.
Troll the practice how you fight geeks by mocking ball and dummy.
Troll the Benbros by saying push down to manage recoil.
Absolute art.
Why do peeps hate the white box stuff?
@@bilson7523Supposedly super dirty, and also not the greatest QC, at least for the 9x19.
@@bilson7523 Target ammo is often on a white box. It's usually a composite bullet that is very light grain and low recoil not real FMJ lead bullets. It is usually slightly more expensive so the only people that use it are those who can't handle recoil.
this socko segment was rather nice
cat
to quote ben christie of the urban rescue ranch: "cute little tibby."
I can see and feel the grimace through Hop's sunglasses as he takes the first bite out of the piece of moist packing foam called MRE Pizza. 8:14
Lmao. I was thinking, "Hop needs bigger shades for this pizza reaction"
This fudd lore shooting "advice" is also alive and well in big Navy SOP for small arms training, coming from the mouth of a Gunner's Mate Second Class. More emphasis was put on finger placement on the trigger than aiming the weapon. I've just learned to never let anybody try to tell me anything again.
Oh boy, one of my fellow airmen failed shotgun quals becuase one of the instructors told him to aim below the target, because, and I quote: "the recoil will put your sights on target, and you won't miss."
I felt ashamed of the Air Force after that one, lol
Newsflash: Veterans are woefully incompetent!
@@georgewhitworth9742I do that with pistols at like 75-100 yards lol
@@nfaisnfgay My PMI was solid as a rock. He knew fuddlore from mechanical advantages, and taught me a lot, even though I started shooting 5 years before he was born. Some vets are based. Some not. Just like civies.
@@Ranstone Citizens have a sharper bell-curve, they're either pretty solid or completely useless. Most military personnel are in the "kinda sucks" middleground.
Socko starts at 17:10
cat
Thanks
Cat. "They're eating the humans!"
@@Yozlee no problem
The title of the video already told me all I need to know, so I just skipped to the socko part. Might watch the actual video sometime in the next few weeks.
Rare footage of Hop smiling. 14:39
And it is, interestingly, more frightening than it is wholesome
It’s giving me “Willem Dafoe” vibes
I went through basic when the whole "you should only contact the trigger with the very tip of your finger" bit of fuddlore was still taught. I'm 6'5" and have hands roughly the size of frying pans. Needless to say, it screwed up my grip and drilled bad habits so deep I'm still trying to break out of them 20 years later. The misplaced confidence of instructors is a terrifying thing.
I pull the trigger with my elbow because I'm bigger than you
Based
Premature recoil control
I used to watch your old game reviews back when I first started my own channel and it's wild that this video showed up on my timeline today. Nice to see we both kind of found out calling on here. Killer advice too. This video has me wishing for some range time to put some of this into action.
Hop didn't think we watched the in-video commercials and that we'd miss the Paul Harrell tribute, but we did notice it.
Short hair hop isn’t real he can’t hurt you
Short hair hop:
Making the ad feel like an extension of the actual video is a subtle art that most creators can't do, good job Sasquatch.
Shotgun instructor here.
The first part of the video is something i try to teach so many other instructors. Im blessed enough in the setting im in, i have taught about 25k people. Ive seen every issue you can as a shotgun shooter. Every problem is different.
Besides lots of dry firing, 22lr and air pistols really help me. They allow me to be more experimental with techniques and targets without the cost penalty of centerfire weighing on my conscience.
I wasn’t a firearms instructor, but I have helped a lot of people learn the basics of shooting. I agree that for people who are familiar with firearms, the dummy round test is mostly bs. However, it has helped me convince some people that no, their iron sights are not off, they are moving their hand before they shoot. Sometimes people close their eyes before they shoot and don’t even realize it. While I don’t think it’s an amazing training aid, I do think it at least gives people who are VERY new to firearms the concept of what they are doing before they shoot.
With James reviewing cars and now Hop reviewing food, I may not need any other subscriptions on TH-cam.
Carlos Hathcock used to balance a quarter on the end of a 30-06 and do dry-fire at home for many hours to practice trigger control.
When I was a kid my dad made me practice dime and washer drills in the living room and become sufficient before he would take me hunting again. The first deer I got took me 9 rounds of 30/30 to kill and he thought that was embarrassing marksmanship. I actually think this was really good practice. Without shooting all that much as a teen I ended up getting expert in the Army right off the bat. I just applied the Army's lessons to what I practiced with my dad and rifle shooting has always come easy for me.
@BullMooseFox what is s dime and washer drill?
I’d also like to know!
They did this in basic training to teach trigger control as well. A battle buddy would put a dime on the flash suppressor of my M16 and I'd practice pulling the trigger without knocking it off. Do this 10 times consecutively then trade off. We practiced this in the squad bay for a week before BRM and qual.
@@Ideo7Z Yep! Great drill. I remember it like yesterday.
What I took away from this was to not order the Pizza Slice - Cheese MRE
the pizza slice - pepperoni mre is just as bad
Are those newer? I don't recall ever eating a pizza MRE. I've eaten quite a lot of MREs since about 2014. I can see how it wouldn't be all that great. I wish there were more like the chicken fajitas and chili mac. Even the vegetarian ones were pretty good. And call me crazy but those flat muffin desserts were not bad (considering it's a MRE, not homemade baked goodness)
You’re so right about this! I realized that I still flinch. I used to have a very bad issue with it and my pistol shooting. I eventually found that my flinch is post bullet out of the barrel. Even my bad days I still shoot good. This is a trip. I have been thinking about this exact situation lately and you nailed it.
I realized when I ride the slide lock I’m obviously still flinching but…. It happened after the round left the barrel.
Great concept you laid out here!
If Socko had his own channel he'd have more subs than Hop.
Domesticated Porch Tiger…
Who's socko
@@jason200912 17:06
@@jason200912 I'm not even going to diginify that with a response. Shit! I just responded. OK, fuck it. It's Hop's handsome cat, who often has a cameo at the end of the video.
The MRE pizza slice is what the machines think we want in a pizza slice. Did you ever have Tasty Wheat?
Thanks for indicating me. I shot today for my CCW qualification. Using a new gun(Hellcat pro) that I've only had a chance to shoot once. Kept pulling the shots low and left and knew I was pushingles it as I have large hands. The instructor said I should be just using the pad of my finger but I told her I was literally reaching back with my finger to just use the pad. I'm left handed just to add. I felt more comfortable contacting the trigger closer to the joint in my finger since I could therefore get a fuller grip on the pistol.
I always make sure to point out the duck on the back of the slide when teaching new shooters.
As usual, loved ur vid!! As a long-time hand-gun shooter(6 DECADES), I am a Hook-finger!!( And, dammed comfortable w/it!!) It is my belief that the "200 round break-in" is just as much shooter acclimation to particular firearm, as it is to "break-in" the firearm itself. Continuing, a person SHOULD NOT EXPECT to become EXPERT within a few rounds. They should be honest w/themselves/ don't "freak-out" over mistakes, expect to learn "as-you-go"/ learn to PLINK, rather than focus on immediately becoming MARKSMAN OF THE YEAR!!! And, I totally agree w/ you on "Flinching & Recoil are the same, Timing is everything".( My wife uses this technique VERY EFFECTIVELY, and is also a DECADES-LONG hand-gun/rifle shooter) Lastly, TY very much for vid, entertaining+informative, and will re-watch a few times!!
That was probably the best ad I've on "guntube". I've never wanted to buy MREs more. Plus, some of mine are 10+ years old so I should look into replacing them.
Last year I ate like 10 MREs from 2014, they were still ok, the "bread" smelled a little off though.
@@CertifiedSunset Yeah, the military ones are probably still good to go but these are from a company called Food Insurance which I don't think exists any more. Everything is still sealed, dry and has been kept at a steady temperature (mostly) but hopefully it's still good. I also got some from MyPatriotSupply. There's lots of private companies that make MREs and I'm not sure how they compare in terms of nutrition to the military ones or if they last as long.
Thanks!
This is some of the best handgun advice I've ever seen on youtube
I will say that auto-forwarding with my M&P 1.0 in 9mm has been pretty common. The 2.0 in 10mm hasn't done it to me a single time.
My M&P357 1.0 is like half and half and you really have to jam it in a specific way to make it work.
The 2.0 has a detent in the frame that prevents auto forwarding. The metal frame guns don't have the same detent.
An MRE pizza is best enjoyed in the freezing cold at around 6 in the morning while sitting in a dirt hole.
Deprivation is the best condiment.
Hop's venture surplus ad is officially my favorite cooking show.
The focus should be hold on to the gun in a way that you can aggressively pull the trigger on target and have the sights or dot predictively return to your point of aim . And that can only be found through trial and error everyone will do things a little differently
I thought Hop always did photosynthesis instead of consuming food like a normal human. 🤔
Nah, he's only built like a sun flower.
Pretty sure he gets most of his calories from alcohol
I second the emotion with alcohol. As a native of Vancouver, WA, I can tell ya he doesn't get enough rain water for photosynthesis to catch, since he's in a pub.
Feed 'im pizza... 😎
I really like the “not everyone is the same” trend being pushed lately.
For years I've watched people set up their rifles and run drills *exactly* how they see their favourite guntubers do it, instead of thinking for themselves. I'm very glad we're moving away from that.
The 12:17 marker is the reason why I love watching Hop do his thing, HE'S HONEST AS HELL. Keep up the fantastic work 👏
The only thing to consider for "flinching" is changes in grip pressure. Consistency is key.
You will see a lot of people maintain proper grip until they go to pull the trigger and they reflexively squeeze and throw their shots off.
That’s the entire point of the video. Flinching is recoil management, so it’s a matter of consistently timing up your recoil management.
@@JimYeats changing grip pressures during the trigger press is not a part of recoil management.
@@TheOtherVenkman I’m speaking more to preparing for the recoil. Not just isolated grip pressure.
As a fellow autoforwarding hater I would pay good money to watch a hop video where he shits on the entire concept and its history for 10 minutes
My conspiracy theory is that auto forwarding is never a deliberate feature but a bug they can't fix.
@@Hoplopfheil I suspect it's a wear thing. The only autoforwarding handgun I have is my old Tanfoglio Force 99 and that gun was pretty high mileage before I bought it. Barrel was fully copper fouled, recoil spring was an inch shorter than it was supposed to be, the works.
@@Hoplopfheil
It was pushed a bit as a feature on the CZ P-10 series, later stopped.
Some modified the 75 series slide stop bolt to have that early on.
I don't like it at all.
Magpul Dynamic Handgun DVDs had Chris Costa teaching what angle to smack the baseplates on M&Ps and Beretta 92s to cause auto forwarding as a "reload technique" 😂
Good to remind people to be skeptical and not take it all as Gospel, Hop. 👍🏻 …and, as always, Socko. 😻
I like the spirit of this video. I have seen so many people, expert and wannabe alike refer to techniques as "correct" rather than as a certain approach. For example, many tutorials and gun channels talk about the "correct" grip for a double action revolver. I consider that to be merely the traditional grip. As for my hands and my revolvers, when I grip it the traditional way, I lose some contact with the handle as it knots up and elevated my palm heel off the handle. Seriously, when I use the double action grip, you could place your pinky under my support hand palm heel. I prefer to use the thumbs forward grip that I use on my auto-loaders. I get significantly more contact with the handle, it's more comfortable for me, and I don't have to train two different grips to be able to shoot both types of pistol. The classic objection is that I could injure my thumbs if they get in front of the cylinder gap. That's true but it's irrelevant to me because with every revolver I've ever shot, I couldn't get my thumbs forward of the cylinder gap with anything near a normal grip orientation. Second, I'm aware of that issue and as such I check and make sure I don't do that. On a similar note, I had to modify a lot of advice I was giving to my wife on her grip because her hands are too small to reach the trigger when she grips the handle the way I do. I could just berate her and tell her that she's doing it wrong, or I can use basic principles to optimize her grip with her hands
This is the main issue I still have in shooting a handgun. I’m still working on speeding up. I didn’t really understand this until watching this, the “cadence” idea is very nice. Thanks, hop.
Very glad someone actually talked about this. I remember reasearching pre/post ignition flinch/push years back and there were very few discussions on it. It made me second guess myself for a time about my "supposed" flinch despite my bullets going where I wanted them to.
7:29 WRONG. Poptarts is where a man belongs. RIP Paul Harrel. ❤
So, background, I have shot pistol “seriously” since about 2016. Used to subscribe to the idea of “build a vice, let it rip” where strength, “correct” grip building and chest, back, and arm tension along with grip kept the pistol pretty rock steady through recoil.
Yeah, don’t do that.
I have really found the content put out by the likes of Ben Stoeger, Joel Young, Matt Pranka, and their collective of folks EXTREMELY HELPFUL. I have completely changed how I approach performance shooting and highly recommend it.
Some highlights that contradict the “norm” of pistol recoil management.
1- the exact grip isn’t as interesting as the consistency of the grip and the behavior of the recoil. Ie, 20° of rotation where the sights come back the same exact way each time beats 10° of rotation where the sight is sporadic.
2- visually driving the gun. Your consistent grip should allow you to “drive” the gun solely with vision and intent, or atleast that’s how you should perceive it. Presentation, repeat shots, and transitions should all be driven by your vision and point of focus on the target. “You shoot what you see, for better or worse”
3- think of your “fast” trigger pull the same as the “slow” one, just more aggressive.
4- dry fire should be more aggressive than live, and your range training at a greater level than you’re actually (assembly) required in real life. Your dry fire issues should mimic your live fire problems or it’s by default ineffective.
The massive amount of content put out by them has revolutionized my wife and I’s training and perception of handgun and carbine shooting. I highly recommend getting down that rabbit hole, will save you years of frustration, but curse you to constructive frustration (most likely) but you will see gains.
I like to have my range buddy load the snap caps in my mag so it’s a surprise, it’s a good immediate action practice
I can't understand how folks can claim to remember where each cap is in their magazines.
One mag with two caps? Maybe...
10 caps in 3 magazines, prepped and loaded at random? Not a chance in hell.
Hey you're smart. I love how you never smile. I noticed the Paul Harrell quote.
I hung up on my girlfriend to watch this. Who needs women when I have Hop
if his hair was longer he'd be a woman too
That's a difference without a distinction. Lesbians are still women.
Hop isn't a woman?
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD what is a woman?
I've hung up on mine to go back to listen to music while I'm driving. Keep telling her I can't hear her she's breaking up😅😅😅
Ah yes my favorite stoic gun guy with the funky eyebrows
socko segment best segment
I came here to leave a comment so dumb that it might give hop an anumyrism. But I'm afraid others may have beat me to it.
I wish I had friends like you Hop. Thanks for making and sharing your videos
15:16 "in the mix of balls"
I’m a rated master class shooter and I thought I knew most everything about shooting how training others to shoot.
Your point blew my mind!
It’s very obvious that I still have a lot to learn
Thank you for this perspective!
Pre and post ignition pushing makes a lot of sense. I wonder in a sense what the best language is to use when teaching someone who is either a new shooter or a shooter who lacks both confidence and ability when shooting pistols. My brother has a very hard time with handguns and doesn't have a lot of wrist and hand strength due to some medical issues and life choices. I think a lot about how to help him without him getting frustrated, but he ends up often just shooting all over the place when it comes to handguns and it's a little disheartening for both of us. Especially since he gets super shaky after shooting for what I consider a short amount of time, and learning by volume of fire isn't something I can really do with him because of it.
Don't think about bring the pistol back down, just think to hold it high and tightly. That works for me and most newbies I've told this to
When a pistol "auto forwards" on me I follow up with a press check. One of the only times I use that technique. Thanks for the share!!
"I'm friends with a lot of Asians so I'm forced to shoot 2011s a lot...." Laughed out loud at that one. Some good info surrounded by much sarcasm. I like it.
This was a legitimately informative video. Thank you
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS. I've been saying this for years and just get shrugged off. I shoot a lot of competitions like Steel Challenge, USPSA, 2gun, 3gun, and some rifle only stuff, and over the years I've gotten pretty good with pistols. I tell people that everyone flinches, it's just a matter of when they flinch that determines if they push their rounds down or if they look like they're shooting an airsoft gun where the only thing you see move is the slide. The best way to get better is just more rounds downrange. Very few people are going to shoot flat and fast within their first magazines worth of ammo.
The best recoil control is and will always be running a Surefire X300 as a muzzle weight 😂.... now add in proper gun mechanics 😅
This its honestly such good info for people to understand. You can have 0 flinch at slow fire, but if you are trying to shoot doubles or shooting fast, you have to have some muscle memory to drive the gun back to the target. And if there’s no bang that will likely show up as a “flinch”
I emphasize to students the importance of follow-through in reducing or controlling flinch. I also use the ball/dummy drill, but I do the loading for them. Sometime I don't even tell them there is dummy ammo in the firearm. This allows me to determine how bad a flinch is and in what direction the pistol moves. The ball/dummy drill is also useful in teaching students how to clear malfunctions. The drill itself does not resolve flinching; it only makes students aware they are doing it. Determined, constant practice can reduce flinching, but the threat of it is always present. As students speed up their pace of fire, follow-through and consistent trigger control tend to suffer and flinching is very likely to occur. At extremely close range this is unlikely to present a problem, but it's a good idea to keep backing up the target in at least five foot increments until you are regularly missing it in rapid fire. This lets you know at what range you need to slow down your pace.
bro had a 4 minute long ad break in an 18 minute video lmao
There can never be too much Socko.
Spec Train makes/sells brass cased dry fire ammo weighted exactly like 9mm 147gr rounds. They don’t have rubber primers or whatever (just a hole so the firing pin will hit air like dry firing without a round in the chamber). I really like the more realistic weight with them in my gun.
Oh yeah go look at Kinetic Consulting “Dry Fire 1” video for a discount code in the description.
If there is nothing stopping the firing pin, it'll come out further and compress the firing spring more than with ammo. If hammer fired, a fitting brightly colored o-ring can help.
@ Thanks for the tip. Most modern guns can be dry fired completely empty without risk of damage (usually says in the manual).
A few more beers and that slice of pizza will be great 👍🏻
18:09 those whiskers are to die for
Always good stuff Hop.. keep pimpin!!.
Huh, very very interesting.
That showcase at the end is fascinating to me because I’ve subconsciously learned to do that exact thing. When shooting steel I’ve got good recoil control, but the other day i was checking out some high end 9mms and shooting groups on paper and felt super subconscious about how poorly i was controlling them, i eventually started controlling the recoil and probably pretty effectively screwed up my groups.
Thank you for answering the question i hadn’t quite fully figured out to ask yet, i love it when that happens
Thanks for the advice, I was wrestling with these subjects at the range yesterday. Some of the advice and hand placement I had heard just wasn't working for me but some basic QOL personal things were working really well.
MRE tasting segment *AND* Socko segment all in one video? Truly a wonderful day.
This is valid af. Good shit, Hop.
I was taught 2 types of handgun recoil mitigation. There is an active way(flinching) and passive or framing. A lot of people who "frame" dont flinch were as active people do. People learning "flinch too early. But i like framing because i dont have to learn cadence or action of the different handguns i shoot regularly.
Its crazy how I was just thinking about this last night being new into guns coming from motorbikes. You're taught to brake and clutch with your pads as it offers the most control.
I agree you shouldn't teach almost anyone to go off the trigger guard from the get go, but I've adapted to it in the last few years and it does wonders for recoil control on basically every pistol. It's also very easy to adjust the grip to indexing off of the light (similar to a C clamp on a rifle) and i personally get a much more natural point with this grip. I 100% believe it's not for everyone, but there is a reason to do it. I specifically put lights on all my guns for this sort of modified C clamp, but it's also allowed me to translate my rifle skills to pistol more fluidly.
This makes me feel better. I noticed I had a natural flinch when I had a misfire and thought it was something I needed to correct despite not having any major accuracy issues. I was confused because my accuracy and reacquiring the dot was always much worse when I didn't anticipate the recoil. It makes sense though, of course you have to adjust the moment it goes off if you want accurate follow up shots quickly.
Hop didn't have a topic.
Just wanted to show off his haircut
I wonder if Hop had to get a job. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.) Appearances on TFBTV have been pretty sparse.
How you liking that Marathon watch, hop?
Kind of a weird size. They should just make a normal watch imho
@@Hoplopfheil do you not like the Vaer anymore? Was looking at picking one up.
COOL HOP IS BACK,Always learning, my man!
I'm a product developer for a food company... your critique of the pizza was fantastic.
Give us more deadpan MRE reviews
This is the mentality I landed on for a while regarding post-ignition push, and I still sometimes do it for VERY close targets to push speed. However once you shift your focus from “recoil control” to “consistent return” instead, you end up back to not pushing the gun down and just keeping constant and consistent grip pressure, and let the gun do the rest🤙🏼
I think the biggest thing that helped me get better at shooting was loosening up and getting comfortable around gun shots. The first time I went to the range I'll never forget it, I would do a noticeable jump-flinch whenever a shot would go off involuntarily.
I flinched when I seen the new hair
I've been playing around with 1-handed bullseye style shooting for a couple months, and I feel like that's helped my handgun game more than anything else. It's all about going slow and hyper-focusing on the little details.
Okay but unironically, thank you for validating my shooting Hop. I was shooting some some 9mm with primers my notaglock wouldn't ignite reliably, and had a really intense recoil correction. I thought I was just shit at pistol shooting, which I might be but not for that reason.
6:55 - That's the most American badass thing I've heard all day, and the primary reason I won't miss a Hop video.
Listening while dry firing at your right nostril ;) Good advice Hop. "Your kinaesthetic self." I am stealing that! Great phrase!
I always used ball and dummy drills as malfunction training.
My favorite part was the hidden MRE pizza slice review
Best ad read hop has done!
Is this the first time I've seen you with the m&p 2.0? That's what I carry and absolutely love it. Love your videos
Yeah this was the first range trip with it.
@Hoplopfheil I have just under a thousand rounds through mine and it's by far my favorite pistol hope you enjoy it as much as I do
I think there is something to be said for simply sending some doubles and seeing what happens on target. Sometimes i think we spend too much time theorizing and describing what we're supposed to be doing. Proprioceptive abilities arent thought through, you have to just go do it.
4:48 I think the word you’re looking for is “propioception”.
Interesting. I've learned a new word for today. Thank you.
@@bmaxsesame
wow thanks john danaher
I think the world needs a Hop food critic channel. You have speech +87000.
I always use the tip of my long jagged fingernail, not the pad of my finger, to actuate the trigger.
Amen brotha. I started shooting much more accurately when I gave up the stupid “pad of the finger tip” thing. My hands are huge and with my long fingers triggers tend to land behind my first knuckle. Fording myself to use the tip of my finger is awkward, and causes me to pull the shots in some weird directions. Bigger grips help, but doing what feels most natural offers the most improvement. FOR ME.
I remember first trying to learn to shoot more or less on my own and all the info out there seemed to be telling me how to "fight/control recoil" so you have little/low muzzle rize.
About a year ago I came across an article from a competition shooter (who's name I don't remember, it wasn't Jerry) that basically said that's all wrong: you want to let it do its thing and then guide your handgun back down on sight.
I really suck at both
You need to put the pizza onto a tray!!! Nice!!!