Personally I find high intensity easier to do on the trainer than the road, I don't have to worry about traffic, road conditions, even staying upright, I can completely empty the tank knowing I can just climb off the bike after.
High intensity intervals are easier for me on the trainer as well. There are tons of short steep (12%) hills in the area around my house so I have a hard time finding the correct terrain for the workout. It is obviously easy on hill days, but for the rest, I just prefer the trainer because I can maintain the correct wattage without worrying about hills, stop signs, or cars. I also find it easier to refuel and rehydrate on the trainer. I have a table full of goodies so I don’t have to put in as much effort as I do when I’m actually on the road.
if only shitmano made proper gearing, it would be also easier to do it on the road. But no you can run 1500-11t because when you need 1500t obvsiously you will use 11t for downhill straight into cemetery. Support shitmano, Their CEOs & shareholders need more yachts for all the fishing equipment they have.
I love YT because sometimes you come across somebody who knows what he is talking about. This is one of this rare gems. Excellent advise, very well presented.
I'd like to see a follow up to this video as Zwift seems to have a lot more plans now. I recently pitted for a teammate at 24 Hours in the Canyon that swears by Zwift. He recommended the Build Me Up plan as I was going to be confined to a trainer for a long time (recovering from a nasty injury). I am definitely getting stronger, but agree that some of the workouts seem random and there is not enough Z2 work. I tend to modify the workouts (I tediously entered the complicated workouts into training peaks then changed them) to add more Z2 work to get weekly durations where I need them per my training plan.
Thanks for this! I've been cycling less than a year and worked through a bunch of different training plans to build up my overall fitness. Four weeks ago i started Zwift's TT tune-up plan and it's been a head scratcher to say the least. The first week was way too easy, then the difficulty spiked for week two and it's been damn near impossible to manage 100% of each session, five days a week. There just hasn't been enough recovery even with no outdoor ride at the weekend and i've been feeling weaker as it's went along. I'm really glad i stumbled onto this video Dylan as i have felt myself losing heart and motivation thinking it was my own ineptitude but your totally right - the sessions are all over the place.
my local mate who is quite good on Zwift, I think he ended up 3rd on their academy live internet thingy last year, his name is Ollie Peckover, super talented lad, knocking out 420watts in the summer for 10mile TT.... however, he is into his 2nd winter now of Zwift, and trying for the academy stuff. His summer was uneventful and he 'popped' and despite his talent achieved nothing this year, considering his strength, then it is a shame. ...... Its basically because he had no downtime in the winter, and never recovered before ramping up his workouts for Zwift racing. My point is Zwift is great for motivation, but no amount of motivation can combat poor recovery and no off season.
@@anthonyjackson9194 I think the opposite is true "knocking out 420watts in the summer for 10mile TT" seems to be saying he's doing really well in the summer as well. The fact he's achieved little in the summer is in spite of active winter training not because of it...
Since I'm not much of a racer, I find that Zwift provides its own set of goals that I train for. Apart from the races (some of which I suspect will be increasingly professional, with big price money etc, just like other e-sports), all the various segments keep me motivated. The first goal I set for my self after getting my trainer was to average 200 watts on all climbs. This was before they invented Alpe du Zwift, which I so far have only managed to do at 187 watts, but once that goal was achieved I had lots of other goals to start training for. Which means I use the zwift workouts as a way to improve my climbs. And anyway, it contrasts nicely with my outdoor riding, where my goals tend to be things like getting as far as possible in a day, or if I have the time, in a week or more. Also, a problem with high intensity workout outdoors is that I restrict myself because I want to be sure that I can get home. My trainer is in my bedroom, I can dive straight into bed if I overcook my intervals!
I left Zwift for 6 months to try better structured plans and the love of cycling was lost. I felt cycling became a job. Zwift offers so much more then in house structured plans. You can even import plans from a coach if you want. Zwift keeps me interested vs other platforms. I will take Zwift and their bad plans vs others. To each is own. 🤙🏻
Wow ! Super evaluation on training plans in general and intensity levels ! And spot on @11:40 for someone who has limited training hours per week ! Would be interested in more on endurance training for a 4 hr race - with specifics on the ability to be strong and attack in the last hour to move up in position. Is there one of your YT discussions that would help me ? Thank you for sharing your racing and coaching knowledge !
So If the Zwift workouts are so bad, why not offer CTS training plans for download to zwift? Put a reasonable price on it and I would gladly pay for it. A great starting point would be the Time Crunched Cyclist programs. I have worked through the new competitor program once but found it hard to know if I was hitting the right intensities for the proper time riding outside. ( I only have a mtb and no power meter). I get that the training plans might lack the individualizations that a proper subscribed plan with CTS might have but for a lot of us who are only moderately invested in racing it would be a starting point.
@@DylanJohnsonCycling I am 49y old man with a 241 FTP level and would like to become a better climber (I live in Switzerland). I would be keen to get a good training plan that fits my age group. I dont recover as quickly as I used to.
@@dpie4859 I work with older athletes and the biggest change I make with their training plans is allowing more time for recovery. If you're interested in coaching send me an email at djohnson@trainright.com.
Wally, you can create your own workouts pretty easily and just mimic the Time Crunched workouts. I have several of them on my zwift I'm using right now, (3x12 SS, 3x9 O/U, etc)
I use Zwift a lot. But not their training programme. You can switch Zwift control of your trainer off - just have it read the power output. Then have something else control the trainer (TrainerRoad or The Sufferfest, for example). Best of both worlds!
@@zivkobrkic4682 Connect your trainer to The Sufferfest or TrainerRoad using FECC trainer control (so that this sees it as a smart trainer & will control the resistance). At the same time connect to Zwift on a different device (I use a phone or a tablet) using the smart trainer as a power meter only - that way Zwift will read the power output, but not control it.
You can also export SYSTM courses to Zwift using a web browser extension. However, you won't get the video experience and the process is a little complicated.
I waited quite a while before reacting to your criticism... not sure where to start. I can understand that for « professional » athletes there might be some flaws in Zwift plans, but for the rest of us, here’s my 2 cents in. I started the « Build me up » program 9 weeks ago and am currently completing the 10th weeks (almost done!). My FTP was 175 W last summer, I am a casual rider of 55 years old and like biking. I live in Quebec where riding outside is not an option from October till late April, unless you are willing to put on a skidoo suit. Over the last ten weeks, not only do I feel I will have improve my FTP to somewhere around 200 W (we’ll see with the test), but I lost over 10 pounds in the process and just feel great! So... maybe if you are already training for the nexr TDF or Paris-Brest, it is not for you but I think that amateurs like me north of the 49th parallel can benefits from those Zwift programs even if they are not « perfect ».
I completely agree. A Zwift plan is a whole lot better than nothing at all and if it keeps you motivated to ride then that's half the battle. However, it is not even close to an optimal training plan and as a coach it is my job to build optimal training plans for people's goals, ability level, and time to train whether they are training for the TDF or just a middle age rider with a full time job just trying to finish their first century etc.
I think this is probably the best training information on you tube. Cheers for the good work. I’ve made myself some training intervals based off of your recommendations. So far so good
Man I just don't know. Zwift has been a great motivator for me this winter. And I know there are many athletes using the platform, but there are also just regular people trying to get a workout in instead of doing something much less healthy like watching a lit screen without a bike attached to it. I hear what you are saying, and I'm sure the training could be better. There are even spelling and technical control errors in the ones I have done. On the other hand, I found the FTP builder one to motivate me to ride because of the schedule, and the Gravel Grinder one is much the same. I was also honest and careful about my real FTP when I setup Zwift (and weight!), and I find the workouts mostly pretty easy. If my heart rate tells me anything, I'm using appropriate proportions of the training zones even if the approach is a little "shotgun like". For most of the people I know, and for myself, a peak or plateau is fine with me. What I don't want is to be riding the first 10 rides in the spring feeling like I'm sucking air through a straw because I was lazy during the winter. I think the lesson from your video should be along the lines of "starting to get serious?" get a real trainer and don't rely on free or generic training plans. It isn't really Zwift's fault, it is all of them.
I definitely appreciate dylans review, and can see why an elite athlete wouldn't be following stock training plans aimed at anyone from complete novice to decent racer. However, as a "sort of decent amateur" cyclist I've had a trainerroad subscription for 2 years (i know you don't like their plans too much either) and have never completed more than 3 weeks of a plan due to sheer boredom. I absolutely hate it. Even with films or music on, whatever, i just cannot make myself get on the trainer to do it, and an hour session feels like 3 hours. 2 weeks into zwift and I'm having to STOP myself getting on it, its addictive. The build me up plan that I've started is a bit all over the place, but given i do no structured training at all, apart from those few weeks on trainerroad every 6 months, anything that gets me on the bike and is a structured session with some progression i think will be a bonus. If it turns me into an elite cyclist and someone pays for a coach for me, then fine, yeah i'm sure that would work better.
I totally agree. I use only 4 of the sessions on zwift... And they are very basic in structure! The gorby (5x5min) is one I think is set out well, The wringer, Emilys short and the 2x20min @ ftp session They all are hard sessions, but not over complex, and they target the zones I need.
I started Zwift training and in 4 months my FTP went from 175 to 250W. Zwift is amazing! my fitness has improved immensely, so much that. can do a 70 mile group ride at 20.5mph with no gel! Zwift is great, keep it simple
I really appreciate all your videos Dylan. I'm just a sr. citizen trying to stay healthy but intervals are tough out on the road for most folks. I can do shorter intervals on trails but for safety's sake it's tough to focus on the work and stay safe. It may be harder indoors to make power but it is easier to stay focused without the worry of a RR crossing or folks out walking the dog. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for all the help. Cheers.
Really great information. Your content is clear and informative. While other channels have flashy camera work, you focus on delivering research backed training information that viewers can truly benefit from. It stands out.
excellent video, been waiting for someone to say this for a while. Zwift is great for getting consistent miles in over winter, but youre far better off creating your own plans and sessions that suit your own specific goals.
Just the motivation I was looking for before jumping into a Zwift: Gravel Grinder workout... 🤦♂️ That said; I often crawl out of bed at 4am to get in a ride before work without any interruptions, and knowing there's a Zwift training plan workout to be completed is just the motivation to make it happen.
I agree with the part about zwift increasing motivation. I also think you need to consider the average zwifter may not necessarily be looking for podiums at this point in their life. For those who are, you make some great observations. But for the pragmatist in me, if I ride 30% more because it is fun (but maybe not optimal), I'm ahead in terms of general fitness. Zwift is a "game" and they don't really hide that aspect - if I were ever to become serious, I would wholeheartedly adopt a personalized plan and maybe run zwift in the background. Finally, I absolutely agree that there is no substitute for the variability and adventure of outdoors. Ride on!
One advantage of all these random changes in intensity is that it trumps boredom, i think. A steady interval is less fun than changes in intensity. Zwift is a game, at the end of the day.
Living in the city, it's difficult to do consistent intervals outside. Even in business parks off hours, you will encounter stop lights, road hazards, cross winds, cars. On the trainer, I can stay in the interval zone, whereas on outside, my wattage is all over the place due to reasons mentioned. Enjoy the ride!
I do 8 hrs a week on Zwift and agree with all that Dylan says - some of the group interval sessions also mix zones e.g. 4 x 3 min at Z3 followed by 3 x 10 x 30/30 at higher intensity - not at all specific in terms of targeted work
Great to see a talk about the Zwift training plans. One thing missing from most, but not all, video based training plans is adaptive coaching. That's where Wahoo SYSTM excelled, for a while. I'm hoping that some sort of "pay as you go" program returns with professional coach backed AI training. Aldo, since time has passed, you might be able to add on services that look at the provided rides and then build out a training plan for you.
Dylan I loved this video, thank you for sharing this valuable insight. At present I only use a coach plan from training peaks and it has made it a lot easier to follow an established plan with proper rest days.
I agree with everything said here except the idea of not being able to do very relevant high intensity training indoors. As an ITT specialist my indoor interval training has worked wonders for me. This is not to say that it isn't beneficial to do the training outdoors, too but my indoor interval training put at the top end of the competition for our club time trials. This video is much appreciated, well organized and otherwise right on track in my opinion.
Great stuff my man...I did a number of Zwift plans and did videos on them...at the moment trying TR and I can totally relate to the issues you bring up here now. I am feeling the punishment of a poor program and its screwing up my TR program
Well. It’s boring but it seems significantly more effective. I’ve got a few weeks left before having a complete opinion. But much harder than Zwift overall. I think I screwed up by moving into the high volume plan. It’s just been too much lately.
@@BrianDavisraces Props man. I'd have a hard time doing that much on the trainer. I don't know if TR has rest weeks built into the plan but sounds like you need one.
I recently started Zwift. Lifetime outdoor athlete of sorts. I really like the Zwift workouts, but really have to pick and choose carefully. They are definitely geared for the 60 minute workout crowd. I’ve found that I need to ride for about an hour on the trainer before I start a Zwift workout- just as I’d do on a real bike before starting intervals. Zwift racing definitely encourages you to go hard all the time, which is of limited benefit in the real world. (If you are a 45-minute crit specialist, it’s probably great). My typical Zwift time includes riding it for about an hour at easy pace with some short efforts. Then picking a structured workout, and increasing the cool down/tempo time to 30 minutes. One of the side effects of the HIIT/CrossFit craze is that so many people feel like they have to go as hard as possible all the time. Totally not true in cycling...
i was thinking the exact same thing, TR pretty much only ride indoors unless they are racing and they yield some pretty good results. Pete from team cliff barr is proof.
I was just looking at my TP calendar when Dylan was talking about how each week should be structured and I have to say, the TP workout is on point. I don't recall which workout I chose, but it's got me at 6-7 hours per week with the short intense intervals at the beginning of the block and the longer sweet spot long intervals at the end of the three weeks.
@@DylanJohnsonCycling Who says there isent any logic to many of the zwift workouts? Just because you cant see the logic. It says more about your knowledge. Ever think about things such as activating aerobic metabolism to a higher extent when ramping up in the zones before HIT?? Do you also know that staying at fairly high intensity (zone 3) after a HIT effort (so ramping down) increases the PGC-1alpha activation response. ( Because your dont allow your PCr stores to regenrate when you maintain moderate/high intensity after a HIT effort) Know your science before talking so confidently as you do. I bet there are a lot of logic behind many of the zwift workouts.
I can’t..and will never be able ride a trainer. I have a ride for every weather condition and riders should learn how to ride in inclement weather.. Here in NC very few racers do
Interesting video, Dylan. I liked the way you posited your arguments, and I felt I could relate with what you were stating. Thank you for your insight on things to look out for. I see from the comments that there are many who are taking it as if you're just bashing, but I felt like you're just giving advice on things to consider based on your experience. Subscribed!
Literally began the 4 week FTP Booster plan yesterday, and was ready to rag on this video for ignoring the fact that some people can't afford personalised plans, to spend 30 hours a week on the bike, or more than one indoor trainer programme subscription, and that this wouldn't actually give any information on what we SHOULD do. Glad I watched to the end - this wasn't just a 'the free version is rubbish, buy my product' video, and I'll go away now and watch the "Fast in Under 10 Hours a Week" video. I do think it's also important to point out that any exercise is mostly better than no exercise, even if it's not that well structured. If you've done the FTP Builder plan, you've not completely wasted your time, it's just better results could have been attained in the same time period. What you're talking about is optimising the gains for those who are trying to push their boundaries. Would this be a fair assessment?
I think he is right. For the same money there are better options for structured training. However, I joined Zwift again because of all the other elements this platform brings. I will never be someone who can just look at graphs to workout. Zwift makes working out fun.
This vid spoke to me. I'm going into my 4th year on a road bike. Last year I made huge gains by following a Zwift program over the winter. However, I did indeed burn out in the mid summer. This year, I've been doing a plan a coach made for me on Training Peaks. I've been worried that it's not kicking my ass like Zwift did last year, but now I'm feeling more confident that I'm doing the right thing.
Thanks for this. I tried the FTP builder and my estimated FTP and VO2 max went down after 5 weeks of sticking to it to a tee, so I bailed. My feeling the whole time was: this is was too intense and interval based. It’s just overtraining. Gonna get back to my 3 basic long duration aerobic sessions a week, build up volume, and see if I can salvage this mess. Ugh.
I just finished the Zwift 4 Week FTP Booster program. I decided to give it a shot because it fit in nicely between the end of CX season and a trip my wife and I had planned for the beginning of February. Overall I felt the weeks were too easy. Even with a slight head cold for 2 of the 4 weeks, I was able to do all of the work without feeling overly taxed. I increased the 60 min Z2 rides to 90 mins to keep my weekly TSS over 450. After the 4 weeks my FTP increased by 2 watts from step test I did the week before starting the program and my Training Peaks Fitness dropped by 1 point.
Thank you for this content! I just got going on trainer about a week ago and something seemed very off about their workouts. I think I’m going to use it primarily to just spin out long endurance rides during the winter to keep my legs moving. I just got going on a swift trainer about a week ago and something seemed very off about their workouts. I think I’m going to use it primarily to just spin out long endurance rides during the winter to keep my legs moving. Again, great content. Thank you, Dylan.
Good video, I agree. Zwift training plans are terrible. The only plan I found that’s halfway decent is TT Tune-up. As an Ironman Triathlete there’s lots of sweet spot and steady state/ cruise intervals in this plan. The only point I disagree with you is on intervals. I prefer intervals on the trainer for safety reasons.
Dylan's comments are spot on. It's not easy for me to say that as I'm a *huge* fan of Zwift, and the platform has helped me achieved my best fitness in over 10 years. For me, the biggest issue (and greatest strength, incidentally) with Zwift is its accessibility. Never before has such a variety of rides/races/workouts, as well as legions of riders of all levels, been so available at all hours of the day and night. This is a very wonderful thing! However, I see people going way overboard with the racing & hard rides, as well as the workouts and plans Dylan mentioned. I slightly differ from his remarks in that I believe race level efforts and hard group rides are the bigger threat than the workouts/plans. The latter will be self limiting because they are so difficult, assuming a correct FTP. My own decades of amateur experience tells me that many of these folks making huge gains in mid-winter will be plateauing big time, burning out, or generally stale come summer. I might end up being included in that statistic myself since I've set up an aggressive plan in terms of TSS on Training Peaks. Since I rarely race or do prescribed workouts, this means lots of volume up to Tempo/SST intensities. We'll see how it works out....
Thank you. Just want to reiterate that I'm in no way bashing Zwift. I think it's a great tool to keep your motivation up. I'd just stay away from their workouts and training plans.
Hi Dylan, i agree with almost all the things u said except for the fact that is better to perform high intensity workouts outside: When i ride outside i can't concentrate only in watt or rpm because of the traffic, obstacles, crossroads, animals and so on. I prefer indoor for this kind of efforts (let's say Z4 and 5 i don't train a lot over theese zones) and, after many years i've build a paincave with a very good fan system that allows me to train indoor even in august. It's true that when i'm outside i have some more watts in my legs (not a lot unfortunatelly) but i also perform ftp test indoor so the intesities are well estabilshed. I'm a triathlete and i see a lot of pro perform high intensity sessions indoor (not only indoor obviously). For every other thing i completely agree with you...good points (and is what i try to tell to my zwift mates when i see them performing all this 'quality' stuff)...
Spot on comments re Zwift training plans, especially re specificity and over training. I've used several Zwift based programs for my Jan thru March training here in the NE. I did use one 2 winters ago that wasn't overly complicated, but I was challenged to find the rest weeks (I'm 58 and need them.) I now use mostly my own custom ERG workouts based on simple zone training and interval reps.
There are some points where I have to agree... I was reading books about training, like the cyclists training bible and "Training and Racing with a Power Meter". I heared the FTP Booster plan was designed by the authors of the training bible. In this book they said that you should spend ~ 70 % of your time below AeT (so in Zone 1 and 2), ~20% of time above AeT and below AnT (Zone 3 and 4) and up to 10% in above AnT (Zone 5 or higher). In week 4 of the FTP builder plan you spend a lot of time in zone 3, and above, neglecting the base. In the book the authors talk about that as a cyclist you should spend the first years as a beginner to build a solid foundation (Zone 2 and maybe a little zone 3) - But in the workouts its definitely more Tempo and above. They also say you should take a rest week, reducing your TSS a little during that week to adapt to the changes and start over refreshed, yet the FTP Booster workout seems to last 6 weeks, always increasing in TSS. I wrote down every important bit of these two books, creating a "cheat sheet" for me if I forget some of these important things. When I compare this to the FTP Builder workout, it seems that the plan doesn't always follow what they explain in their own books. So I'm confused...
I generally agree with your assessment of the "canned" Zwift plans and individual workouts. However, there are actually quite a few decent individual workouts in their library, you just need to dig for them. That said, they have a really nice tool for creating your own workouts and I like using Zwift for those just so I have something to control the ERG wattage and keep me on task. I disagree with your assessment that outdoor intervals are better. I'd actually ague the opposite. With the right conditions inside (big airflow, low humidity), it is much more controlled and repeatable and there is no performance drop off if you have the right equipment. If you are riding indoors in a hot humid room with a single $40 box fan, of course performance is going to suffer.
Awesome video! I might contest one point you made about the quality of workouts being better outdoors than indoors. If you can get some fans to cool you down during your ride and keep your body temperature low, then I'd say the quality you get indoors may in fact be better. How many of us can ride outdoors at a high intensity without stopping for a stop light/stop sign/construction or some other interruption? I bet not many.
Started using zwift on smart trainer after mtb crash to recover and get fit, sustained a severe concussion and still cant ride outdoors. Only spending 50mins (including warmup and cooldown) training. Mate gave me a few good plans to follow, clear most zwift stuff is rubbish. A solid 40/20 session, a sst session and inbetween all that recovery rides and 2 days strength work
Switched from Zwift to TR and I'm loving it. I'm training 6-7 hours per week and TR has the higher intensity at the beginning of the 4 week block, sweet spot longer intervals at the end of the third week and recovery during the 4th week. It also regularly schedules the ramp test to ensure that you are training at the proper FTP.
This was a really good video breaking down what Zwift does but, you also went into what makes a proper training program and why keeping it simple is more effective than making it complex
There are hundreds of Zwift workouts and some are bang on, but I have given up on the training plans. Also on many workouts, you can adjust your FTP. So it is what you decide.
Excellent points. One thing I've found is that some of the most experienced cyclists I know have a core set of workouts they use that can be counted on one hand. They may vary the number of intervals but the consistency makes it possible to track progress and detect early signs of over training. Most training plans have too much variety during the set in my opinion.
Stephen Seiler says the same exact same thing in his interview with Trevor Conner on the " Fast Talk " podcast .They literally laughed at how complicated the programming is on these platforms .The best just work " bread and butter " time in zone intervals . I like to follow champions like Dylan for advise , not those that are basically selling motivation and entertainment . Good training just really isn't really all that sexy , as Seiler puts it .@@DylanJohnsonCycling
Zwift 4wk FTP Booster program is set up to increase your 20min max power in short time. If your target is to ride 3h in summer at a higher pace as a sportive recreational cyclist you will get in trouble because you trained for 20min only, but this 20min you can crush. I did the Booster workout last year after Zwift 12wk winter programm. The 12wk winter programm has long units at low intensity, rest days, long and short intervalls, which is quite a good mix for a non professional. After programms end, I had a good base and were putting some watts on top of my FTP after Booster programm. All in all Zwift plans are very good if non professional cyclist follow them. This is much better than just riding without structure, which is typical for many non professional cyclist without trainer. Even in the case I end up on a plateau, this plateau is much better than before. In addition in summer I go out for having fun at cycling with friends without following structured training. So all in all, there are better plans outside and the interaction with a trainer will improve your results further, but for people without trainer Zwift programms are really good.
I can say that the FTP Booster program in Zwift delivers. I'v been on Zwift för 2,5years now an I often hear of good results. It starts of slowly so its good for beginners and set a good discipline and they can get the feel that concistency is the biggest and most component.
I use both - clipless are better in marginal situations. Climbing on slippery terrain or through mud in a low gear where the grip can suddenly vanish, your feet naturally keep up with events. The only other time I like them on the road are when riding fixed gear.
I am using rides from Zwift Training plans and find them beneficial. I also use TP and watch my Fatique, Form and Fitness. I let those numbers lead to my rest days etc... Zwift is free and it gets me through the winter without just jumping on my bike and going for a ride. I appreciate the structure. In April I will switch to a purchase and customized plan from TP. Not sure what the motivation was to produce this video but in my opinion it looks bad on CMT. Of course your plans are customized and personal and better. They are also too expensive for most amateurs to use year-round.
Hey Dylan, The only zwift workout that I would recommend during the winter is the 'pedaling and cadence drills'. In my opinion they are great to build up the speed during winter base period. They consist of one-legged pedalling for the first half an hour and they 1min spin-ups at 135+ cadence. Really teaches your body to stay relaxed and not to waste energy on unnecessary movements. They have a random zone3/4 10min tempo at the end but that can be easily skipped. For the rest of the winter base workouts, I am using zwift as a motivational/monitoring device to target specific zones, and I plan to do all my high intensity outdoors(weather should start to get better at the end of my last base period block), so I am happy to hear that's what an accomplished cyclist as you suggest as well.
I agree 100% on Zwift workouts being too interval based, just like Trainerroad's sweet spot base plan. Ideally 2 interval sessions a week and the rest being low intensity sessions will be enough to see performance gains, BUT you want to start your training when you're closer to the season. I've made the mistake before of starting the offseason training too early into the offseason which resulted in plateauing and burning out early into the season.
I've been on Zwift for 18 months. I load my 'Today's Plan' programs straight into Zwift (or my Garmin if I ride outdoors). I like Zwift for motivation and because I live in the Great White North. I do my recovery rides in a social group ride when I can. Overall Zwift has been a huge help but my specific, periodized ongoing program is from Today's Plan.
Thanks Dylan it's to the core, I have one consideration about high intensity session after a rest day like u said on Tuesday! That's a big mistake if u meant a rest day is full rest day. My point here is a rest day means a passive recovery day that's OK, but if it is a full recovery day followed by a high intensity session that will cause your muscle to produce a big amount of lactic acid even if u had a good warm up.
This winter was the first time I ever actually did cycling workouts ever and it's really because of Zwift. HOWEVER! I agree with a lot of the workouts being way over complicated. I have done lots of running and swimming workouts in the past. I have never seen any workout as crazy as some of the zwift workouts. It's like they can't decide what to do. If you look through the selection though you can find a good number that aren't that crazy.
Zwift academy 20 was very good, recommend any one doing those , just finishing off the tri ones now, great workouts, was thinking of doing build me up on zwift, but no way to pause the plan, so no go for me, maybe takes Dylans advice and make my own on his 6hrs a week. Good stuff.
Like my CTS plan so far, I am far from even thinking about being competitive other than strava segments. But yesterday's intervals...in very uncharacteristic february AZ weather...intervals outside put me in cold induced asthma conditions...so today, my intervals will be my first time using zwift. As for peaking early...by the time it is June, my bike will mostly hang and I will be in the pool :-)
I agree about the zwift plans , I don't use them. Interesting you say do HIT sessions outside. I do most of my training in the winter indoors . If you lived in the UK you would too🤣🤣 I love training indoors ,as trying to keep warm takes so much out of me, and I take longer to recover. I don't do many long rides and race cyclo cross. I also race longer MTB races up to 4 hours-6 hours and question whether I need to do long training rides?
I have to disagree, I used to just ride in Zwift and since I started doing the Zwift Workouts I’ve increased my FTP, my endurance, control my heart rate, etc. I haven’t been more in shape than now!
I think there are newer ones that make better sense, but they are done by trainers. You can see their logos in the plan details. Best is always to upload your personal plan to Zwift
I have subscription of both trainer road and Zwift. I run both simultaneously. Trainer road all sensors connected, but in zwift only power n cadence connected. trainer road on ERG mode... minimize trainer road after starting the ride .. n enjoy ur scenery on Zwift.
So in sum: zwift workouts are designed to keep you from getting bored, but in doing so, they sacrifice a bit of best practice when it comes to the workouts or training programs themselves (seemingly random intervals, no consistent focus on zones, no real training specificity, often hardest intervals later rather than earlier, and perhaps the biggest one, inadequate rest). But I'd say, given that I am (and most people are) working out indoors out of necessity, and working out indoors generally sucks, I probably see more gains because zwift plans keep me engaged, whereas a scientifically optimal plan would bore me to death and kill my motivation
As an older, beginner cyclist I am looking to ramp up my FTP. When I started running, I used Couch-To-5K which is interval based to get strong/fit enough to handle the steady-state endurance workouts. Would some of these Zwift workouts help me get into shape so that I can keep up on group rides?
Agree on most points. However, the trainer is a better place for me to assure consistency in the intensity and duration of intervals. On the road, you have to contend with stopping, downhill coasting and other factors that assure that the legs are getting numerous micro breaks throughout. Very difficult to assure full intervals are being done. With respect to zwift and TrainerRoad, the rider is basically having to take responsibility for their own coaching. Very hard to do that objectively.
Dylan Johnson your point is well taken. Some places lend themselves to better outdoor interval training than others. I would also add that club / group rides can be a lot of fun, but they can be training plan killers.
Totally agree. Love Zwift but I use a structured evidence based training plan for my intervals. Glad someone made this video. Its like they threw some random intensities together just so they could say hey we have workout plans too! These plans lack understanding of proper periodization and seemingly a complete misunderstanding of how to formulate a workout to target physiological adaptions. Most users would be almost better off coming up with something by themselves.
his first example is from a fondo workout, he say 'random', the workout simulates the random efforts of a fondo ride. you can also create your own workout
Just started cycling a couple of months ago indoors (due to the Canadian winter). Look forward to watching and learning more from you! Really appreciate the great videos!
I’ve resisted Zwift for years and stuck with a dozen or so TrainerRoad workouts. Got me from being a decent age grouper to racing pro this year. Although I don’t use them, would be curious in your thoughts on TR plans. Really enjoyed the video (although not sure I can’t quite agree with the idea that intervals should be done outside - really specific VO2 work is just much safer and more specific with controlled conditions inside). Keep up the great videos!
Also would love a video on trainer road. Just finished sweet spot base 1 & 2 and started the short power build phase which is a lot of high intensity but only 60/90 mins in duration and lots of recovery in between the work. I chose this because I think my main aim this year is to build my 1-5 minute power which I think is my weakest element and have lots of short steep climbs where I live. I also do most of my training on a turbo due to work weather and family commitments. Normally do a longer ride on a Sunday but very hard to stay in zone 2 has its quite hilly. Thanks for the great training videos. Really helping me understand more 😄👍
@@son200219 I need to take a closer look at the TR stuff but from my limited experience with it and from what you are describing they are written better than most Zwift plans. 1-5 minute power can be built very quickly and then plateau which is why they are generally used in the month or two before an important event. Do you know what time of the year you want to be peak form?
@@son200219 That's a great schedule because it allows you to rest and rebuild mid season. I'd recommend starting high intensity intervals in march and then really ramping them up in april.
Thanks for this good quality video... you seem impressively knowledgeable and experienced for a young guy. My personal issue with Zwift is that I prefer the motivation, challenge and fun that can come from virtual races -- helps me to push myself in an otherwise boring indoor environment. But there is no structure to this and the races are not always at convenient times that fit my schedule. I'm an age-group 70.3 and 140.6 triathlete and find that TrainerRoad plans and workouts are structured well and help me improve my fitness. If only I could find a more practical way to combine the structure from TrainerRoad with the entertainment of Zwift. On long steady indoor rides without high-intensity intervals, I run TrainerRoad on my mobile phone and Zwift on my computer simultaneously. It's a bit geeky but helps pass the time.
I run both on the same computer. I connect my trainer to TR using Ant+ and run it in minimized mode, then connect Zwift using Bluetooth and turn off trainer control. Once going if the Zwift video is choppy I turn off wifi and it's back to snappy fast, then turn it back on when my workout is down to upload workout data.
As someone who's undergone a National Program for 5mos during a winter break, I feel most of these online programs are too much as mentioned. Ive done TR before and yes, it does keep your FTP at a "level" where you come back decent on the road, but don't rely on the #s too much as there's so much variables outside that you won't experience with the the wattages unless you're Mathew Hayman strong and have 20hrs/wk to train (and subsequently win Paris Roubaix) Despite this, I will be immersing myself in the smart trainer/Zwift realm to "ride" Alpe D Huez and such virtually. It would be a nice workout to try. I will leave the structured training to my coach.
Thanks Dylan. My racing days were over more than 30 years ago, but I still remember that workouts we did back then were focused on particular heart rate zones (no power meters back then). So, when I saw what Zwift offered, I was somewhat hesitant to do those strange workouts. You reinforced my unwillingness greatly :) That being said, GCN workouts are much more sensible for someone with enough self-control to pace through them with enough recovery time.
I used sufferfest and got bored of their videos after a while. I like zwift and have been doing their 4 week booster plan as I don't have loads of time. I tend to do the 4 week plan over 6 weeks though. I got an 8% ftp increase after 6 weeks. I've used trainer road too and it was good but its pretty boring, atleast zwift keeps you motivated to get on the bike. I think its good enough for the majority/cost. Lots of options to then do other plans on zwift too. All coaches seem to have their own opinions on everything!
Hahaha just done the zwift ftp builder and really was struggling on that 5 by 4 min zone 3 then 5 x 5 zone 4 have seen an ftp increase though but will be definitely applying your advice into future training
Great vid! I get the science but in this case and this year I think the plans work for me. I'm new to cycling, eager to get fit. The workouts keep me engaged, I'm losing weight, getting faster and fitter and all seemingly with no downsides as there is no "plan" for the year. VA has no beginner road races scheduled for 2021.
Personally I find high intensity easier to do on the trainer than the road, I don't have to worry about traffic, road conditions, even staying upright, I can completely empty the tank knowing I can just climb off the bike after.
Fair point
Totally agree. Especially on rollers.
High intensity intervals are easier for me on the trainer as well. There are tons of short steep (12%) hills in the area around my house so I have a hard time finding the correct terrain for the workout. It is obviously easy on hill days, but for the rest, I just prefer the trainer because I can maintain the correct wattage without worrying about hills, stop signs, or cars. I also find it easier to refuel and rehydrate on the trainer. I have a table full of goodies so I don’t have to put in as much effort as I do when I’m actually on the road.
if only shitmano made proper gearing, it would be also easier to do it on the road. But no you can run 1500-11t because when you need 1500t obvsiously you will use 11t for downhill straight into cemetery. Support shitmano, Their CEOs & shareholders need more yachts for all the fishing equipment they have.
When corporation is on NYSE or have investors YOU are the PRODUCT.
I love YT because sometimes you come across somebody who knows what he is talking about. This is one of this rare gems. Excellent advise, very well presented.
I'd like to see a follow up to this video as Zwift seems to have a lot more plans now. I recently pitted for a teammate at 24 Hours in the Canyon that swears by Zwift. He recommended the Build Me Up plan as I was going to be confined to a trainer for a long time (recovering from a nasty injury). I am definitely getting stronger, but agree that some of the workouts seem random and there is not enough Z2 work. I tend to modify the workouts (I tediously entered the complicated workouts into training peaks then changed them) to add more Z2 work to get weekly durations where I need them per my training plan.
Thanks for this!
I've been cycling less than a year and worked through a bunch of different training plans to build up my overall fitness.
Four weeks ago i started Zwift's TT tune-up plan and it's been a head scratcher to say the least. The first week was way too easy, then the difficulty spiked for week two and it's been damn near impossible to manage 100% of each session, five days a week. There just hasn't been enough recovery even with no outdoor ride at the weekend and i've been feeling weaker as it's went along.
I'm really glad i stumbled onto this video Dylan as i have felt myself losing heart and motivation thinking it was my own ineptitude but your totally right - the sessions are all over the place.
my local mate who is quite good on Zwift, I think he ended up 3rd on their academy live internet thingy last year, his name is Ollie Peckover, super talented lad, knocking out 420watts in the summer for 10mile TT.... however, he is into his 2nd winter now of Zwift, and trying for the academy stuff. His summer was uneventful and he 'popped' and despite his talent achieved nothing this year, considering his strength, then it is a shame. ...... Its basically because he had no downtime in the winter, and never recovered before ramping up his workouts for Zwift racing.
My point is Zwift is great for motivation, but no amount of motivation can combat poor recovery and no off season.
@@anthonyjackson9194 I think the opposite is true "knocking out 420watts in the summer for 10mile TT" seems to be saying he's doing really well in the summer as well. The fact he's achieved little in the summer is in spite of active winter training not because of it...
Since I'm not much of a racer, I find that Zwift provides its own set of goals that I train for. Apart from the races (some of which I suspect will be increasingly professional, with big price money etc, just like other e-sports), all the various segments keep me motivated. The first goal I set for my self after getting my trainer was to average 200 watts on all climbs. This was before they invented Alpe du Zwift, which I so far have only managed to do at 187 watts, but once that goal was achieved I had lots of other goals to start training for. Which means I use the zwift workouts as a way to improve my climbs. And anyway, it contrasts nicely with my outdoor riding, where my goals tend to be things like getting as far as possible in a day, or if I have the time, in a week or more.
Also, a problem with high intensity workout outdoors is that I restrict myself because I want to be sure that I can get home. My trainer is in my bedroom, I can dive straight into bed if I overcook my intervals!
I did the first Zwift 4 week FTP booster, and was utterly baffled by it. Thought maybe I was overthinking it, thanks for setting the record straight
same! I tried spacing out the '4-week' ftp booster, and included rest days and lower intensity rides.. felt much better
Been enjoying the zwift workouts even if it may not be perfect based on your stated facts - they are fun and better than no plan at all
I left Zwift for 6 months to try better structured plans and the love of cycling was lost. I felt cycling became a job. Zwift offers so much more then in house structured plans. You can even import plans from a coach if you want. Zwift keeps me interested vs other platforms. I will take Zwift and their bad plans vs others. To each is own. 🤙🏻
A plan is better than no plan.
I concur. Zwift is a good resource for training plans and workouts.
Training plans available here: www.trainingpeaks.com/coach/dylanjohnsontraining#trainingplans
You just sold a kindle version of Chris's book! Boom!
Wow ! Super evaluation on training plans in general and intensity levels ! And spot on @11:40 for someone who has limited training hours per week ! Would be interested in more on endurance training for a 4 hr race - with specifics on the ability to be strong and attack in the last hour to move up in position. Is there one of your YT discussions that would help me ? Thank you for sharing your racing and coaching knowledge !
Planning to drop 30 min off my 2019 Grizzly time. and continue in my age group for the CA/Big Bear endurance series. Thanks for your tips !
I'm looking at starting to use software to train indoors. If not swift then what would you recommend?
So If the Zwift workouts are so bad, why not offer CTS training plans for download to zwift? Put a reasonable price on it and I would gladly pay for it. A great starting point would be the Time Crunched Cyclist programs. I have worked through the new competitor program once but found it hard to know if I was hitting the right intensities for the proper time riding outside. ( I only have a mtb and no power meter). I get that the training plans might lack the individualizations that a proper subscribed plan with CTS might have but for a lot of us who are only moderately invested in racing it would be a starting point.
This is a great idea. Ultimately not my decision but I can talk to the higher ups about this. Thank you for the suggestion!
@@DylanJohnsonCycling I am 49y old man with a 241 FTP level and would like to become a better climber (I live in Switzerland). I would be keen to get a good training plan that fits my age group. I dont recover as quickly as I used to.
@@dpie4859 I work with older athletes and the biggest change I make with their training plans is allowing more time for recovery. If you're interested in coaching send me an email at djohnson@trainright.com.
Wally, you can create your own workouts pretty easily and just mimic the Time Crunched workouts. I have several of them on my zwift I'm using right now, (3x12 SS, 3x9 O/U, etc)
Dylan Johnson it will be good if it is affordable
I use Zwift a lot. But not their training programme. You can switch Zwift control of your trainer off - just have it read the power output. Then have something else control the trainer (TrainerRoad or The Sufferfest, for example). Best of both worlds!
How to do that?
@@zivkobrkic4682 Connect your trainer to The Sufferfest or TrainerRoad using FECC trainer control (so that this sees it as a smart trainer & will control the resistance). At the same time connect to Zwift on a different device (I use a phone or a tablet) using the smart trainer as a power meter only - that way Zwift will read the power output, but not control it.
You can also export SYSTM courses to Zwift using a web browser extension. However, you won't get the video experience and the process is a little complicated.
I waited quite a while before reacting to your criticism... not sure where to start. I can understand that for « professional » athletes there might be some flaws in Zwift plans, but for the rest of us, here’s my 2 cents in. I started the « Build me up » program 9 weeks ago and am currently completing the 10th weeks (almost done!). My FTP was 175 W last summer, I am a casual rider of 55 years old and like biking. I live in Quebec where riding outside is not an option from October till late April, unless you are willing to put on a skidoo suit. Over the last ten weeks, not only do I feel I will have improve my FTP to somewhere around 200 W (we’ll see with the test), but I lost over 10 pounds in the process and just feel great! So... maybe if you are already training for the nexr TDF or Paris-Brest, it is not for you but I think that amateurs like me north of the 49th parallel can benefits from those Zwift programs even if they are not « perfect ».
I completely agree. A Zwift plan is a whole lot better than nothing at all and if it keeps you motivated to ride then that's half the battle. However, it is not even close to an optimal training plan and as a coach it is my job to build optimal training plans for people's goals, ability level, and time to train whether they are training for the TDF or just a middle age rider with a full time job just trying to finish their first century etc.
I did the FTP BOOSTER and it increased my FTP for 30 WATTS and I am a pretty trained cyclist.
Exist one ruler , 80% of case , dont have changes, 10% increased and 10% reduced...
Would love to see an updated review of zwift training plans - just started on the FTP Builder and it's nothing like the charts you've shown here 😅
I think this is probably the best training information on you tube. Cheers for the good work. I’ve made myself some training intervals based off of your recommendations. So far so good
Man I just don't know. Zwift has been a great motivator for me this winter. And I know there are many athletes using the platform, but there are also just regular people trying to get a workout in instead of doing something much less healthy like watching a lit screen without a bike attached to it. I hear what you are saying, and I'm sure the training could be better. There are even spelling and technical control errors in the ones I have done. On the other hand, I found the FTP builder one to motivate me to ride because of the schedule, and the Gravel Grinder one is much the same. I was also honest and careful about my real FTP when I setup Zwift (and weight!), and I find the workouts mostly pretty easy. If my heart rate tells me anything, I'm using appropriate proportions of the training zones even if the approach is a little "shotgun like".
For most of the people I know, and for myself, a peak or plateau is fine with me. What I don't want is to be riding the first 10 rides in the spring feeling like I'm sucking air through a straw because I was lazy during the winter. I think the lesson from your video should be along the lines of "starting to get serious?" get a real trainer and don't rely on free or generic training plans. It isn't really Zwift's fault, it is all of them.
Very well said and I agree. Zwift plans appeal to the masses and not the dedicated racers.
@@DylanJohnsonCycling IN which case, once you know what you need, Zwift is incredibly easy to set up your own custom plans. Watts is Watts.
I definitely appreciate dylans review, and can see why an elite athlete wouldn't be following stock training plans aimed at anyone from complete novice to decent racer. However, as a "sort of decent amateur" cyclist I've had a trainerroad subscription for 2 years (i know you don't like their plans too much either) and have never completed more than 3 weeks of a plan due to sheer boredom. I absolutely hate it. Even with films or music on, whatever, i just cannot make myself get on the trainer to do it, and an hour session feels like 3 hours. 2 weeks into zwift and I'm having to STOP myself getting on it, its addictive. The build me up plan that I've started is a bit all over the place, but given i do no structured training at all, apart from those few weeks on trainerroad every 6 months, anything that gets me on the bike and is a structured session with some progression i think will be a bonus. If it turns me into an elite cyclist and someone pays for a coach for me, then fine, yeah i'm sure that would work better.
I totally agree. I use only 4 of the sessions on zwift... And they are very basic in structure! The gorby (5x5min) is one I think is set out well, The wringer, Emilys short and the 2x20min @ ftp session
They all are hard sessions, but not over complex, and they target the zones I need.
I started Zwift training and in 4 months my FTP went from 175 to 250W. Zwift is amazing! my fitness has improved immensely, so much that. can do a 70 mile group ride at 20.5mph with no gel! Zwift is great, keep it simple
The same here.
Did you know you can import TrainerRoad workouts into Zwift? Great way of combining the amazing TR plans with the Zwift ride feel!
No you can't. You need to re-create it. (If things have changed, please share. Thx.)
I really appreciate all your videos Dylan. I'm just a sr. citizen trying to stay healthy but intervals are tough out on the road for most folks. I can do shorter intervals on trails but for safety's sake it's tough to focus on the work and stay safe. It may be harder indoors to make power but it is easier to stay focused without the worry of a RR crossing or folks out walking the dog. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for all the help. Cheers.
Really great information. Your content is clear and informative. While other channels have flashy camera work, you focus on delivering research backed training information that viewers can truly benefit from. It stands out.
@dylanjohnson I would be curious if now that it is a year plus since your review if you’ve seen improvements in Zwift’s workouts and training plans?
They are still very bad.
excellent video, been waiting for someone to say this for a while. Zwift is great for getting consistent miles in over winter, but youre far better off creating your own plans and sessions that suit your own specific goals.
Exactly!
Just the motivation I was looking for before jumping into a Zwift: Gravel Grinder workout... 🤦♂️
That said; I often crawl out of bed at 4am to get in a ride before work without any interruptions, and knowing there's a Zwift training plan workout to be completed is just the motivation to make it happen.
I agree with the part about zwift increasing motivation. I also think you need to consider the average zwifter may not necessarily be looking for podiums at this point in their life. For those who are, you make some great observations. But for the pragmatist in me, if I ride 30% more because it is fun (but maybe not optimal), I'm ahead in terms of general fitness. Zwift is a "game" and they don't really hide that aspect - if I were ever to become serious, I would wholeheartedly adopt a personalized plan and maybe run zwift in the background. Finally, I absolutely agree that there is no substitute for the variability and adventure of outdoors. Ride on!
Another vote for a deep dive on the Trainer Road plans. I use them and I think they are very much in line with your philosophy. Thanks.
I'm glad you you showed a piece from Dr. Stephen Seiler, he's a training wizard!! just do what he says and you'll be good!!
One advantage of all these random changes in intensity is that it trumps boredom, i think. A steady interval is less fun than changes in intensity. Zwift is a game, at the end of the day.
Living in the city, it's difficult to do consistent intervals outside. Even in business parks off hours, you will encounter stop lights, road hazards, cross winds, cars. On the trainer, I can stay in the interval zone, whereas on outside, my wattage is all over the place due to reasons mentioned. Enjoy the ride!
I do 8 hrs a week on Zwift and agree with all that Dylan says - some of the group interval sessions also mix zones e.g. 4 x 3 min at Z3 followed by 3 x 10 x 30/30 at higher intensity - not at all specific in terms of targeted work
that does not sound THAT bad. doing some zone 3 before hitting the 10x30-30 will get you ready for the harder work
Yep that’s pretty much covered what I found. I stopped after week 2 with what I was doing outdoors. Can’t wait to hear about TrainerRoad
Great to see a talk about the Zwift training plans.
One thing missing from most, but not all, video based training plans is adaptive coaching. That's where Wahoo SYSTM excelled, for a while. I'm hoping that some sort of "pay as you go" program returns with professional coach backed AI training.
Aldo, since time has passed, you might be able to add on services that look at the provided rides and then build out a training plan for you.
Dylan I loved this video, thank you for sharing this valuable insight. At present I only use a coach plan from training peaks and it has made it a lot easier to follow an established plan with proper rest days.
I agree with everything said here except the idea of not being able to do very relevant high intensity training indoors. As an ITT specialist my indoor interval training has worked wonders for me. This is not to say that it isn't beneficial to do the training outdoors, too but my indoor interval training put at the top end of the competition for our club time trials. This video is much appreciated, well organized and otherwise right on track in my opinion.
Great stuff my man...I did a number of Zwift plans and did videos on them...at the moment trying TR and I can totally relate to the issues you bring up here now. I am feeling the punishment of a poor program and its screwing up my TR program
How's the TR plan compare? I may check that out and do a video on it.
Well. It’s boring but it seems significantly more effective. I’ve got a few weeks left before having a complete opinion. But much harder than Zwift overall. I think I screwed up by moving into the high volume plan. It’s just been too much lately.
I gotcha. How many hours is the high volume plan? I definitely think you can overdo it with the indoor hours.
Dylan Johnson It calls for 9-12 hours which is my in-season higher weeks. So yeah I think I’m over cooking my turkey. Lol
@@BrianDavisraces Props man. I'd have a hard time doing that much on the trainer. I don't know if TR has rest weeks built into the plan but sounds like you need one.
I recently started Zwift. Lifetime outdoor athlete of sorts. I really like the Zwift workouts, but really have to pick and choose carefully. They are definitely geared for the 60 minute workout crowd. I’ve found that I need to ride for about an hour on the trainer before I start a Zwift workout- just as I’d do on a real bike before starting intervals. Zwift racing definitely encourages you to go hard all the time, which is of limited benefit in the real world. (If you are a 45-minute crit specialist, it’s probably great).
My typical Zwift time includes riding it for about an hour at easy pace with some short efforts. Then picking a structured workout, and increasing the cool down/tempo time to 30 minutes.
One of the side effects of the HIIT/CrossFit craze is that so many people feel like they have to go as hard as possible all the time. Totally not true in cycling...
Hey man. Its been 4 years since this video. Could you make another one talking about Garmin training plans? Thanks! @Dylan Johnson
Very close to my personal training philosophy "train smart, not hard"...and i'm using zwift a lot, most of the time customized workouts!
I’m so glad I found this video. Packed with great info. Thx.
I would love to see this same analysis of Trainerroad training plans.
i was thinking the exact same thing, TR pretty much only ride indoors unless they are racing and they yield some pretty good results. Pete from team cliff barr is proof.
I was just looking at my TP calendar when Dylan was talking about how each week should be structured and I have to say, the TP workout is on point. I don't recall which workout I chose, but it's got me at 6-7 hours per week with the short intense intervals at the beginning of the block and the longer sweet spot long intervals at the end of the three weeks.
Bump
The issue is a competing interest on the video makers part
Agree. Zwift workouts often don't have a lot of logic to them. I've had good results following Trainerroad plans.
Lots of people talking about trainer road in the comments. Perhaps a video comparing the two is in order.
@@DylanJohnsonCycling Who says there isent any logic to many of the zwift workouts? Just because you cant see the logic. It says more about your knowledge. Ever think about things such as activating aerobic metabolism to a higher extent when ramping up in the zones before HIT?? Do you also know that staying at fairly high intensity (zone 3) after a HIT effort (so ramping down) increases the PGC-1alpha activation response. ( Because your dont allow your PCr stores to regenrate when you maintain moderate/high intensity after a HIT effort) Know your science before talking so confidently as you do. I bet there are a lot of logic behind many of the zwift workouts.
@@DylanJohnsonCycling Yes that would be great!
I can’t..and will never be able ride a trainer. I have a ride for every weather condition and riders should learn how to ride in inclement weather.. Here in NC very few racers do
Malte Therkildsen
What about those 4x10 min.vo2 intervals?
That is uncompletable
Totaly agree, lack of Z1 and Z2 workouts and lots of the intervals have very short warming time.
Interesting video, Dylan.
I liked the way you posited your arguments, and I felt I could relate with what you were stating.
Thank you for your insight on things to look out for. I see from the comments that there are many who are taking it as if you're just bashing, but I felt like you're just giving advice on things to consider based on your experience.
Subscribed!
Thank you!
Literally began the 4 week FTP Booster plan yesterday, and was ready to rag on this video for ignoring the fact that some people can't afford personalised plans, to spend 30 hours a week on the bike, or more than one indoor trainer programme subscription, and that this wouldn't actually give any information on what we SHOULD do. Glad I watched to the end - this wasn't just a 'the free version is rubbish, buy my product' video, and I'll go away now and watch the "Fast in Under 10 Hours a Week" video.
I do think it's also important to point out that any exercise is mostly better than no exercise, even if it's not that well structured. If you've done the FTP Builder plan, you've not completely wasted your time, it's just better results could have been attained in the same time period. What you're talking about is optimising the gains for those who are trying to push their boundaries. Would this be a fair assessment?
I think he is right. For the same money there are better options for structured training. However, I joined Zwift again because of all the other elements this platform brings. I will never be someone who can just look at graphs to workout. Zwift makes working out fun.
This vid spoke to me. I'm going into my 4th year on a road bike. Last year I made huge gains by following a Zwift program over the winter. However, I did indeed burn out in the mid summer. This year, I've been doing a plan a coach made for me on Training Peaks. I've been worried that it's not kicking my ass like Zwift did last year, but now I'm feeling more confident that I'm doing the right thing.
Finding a coach was the right move!
Thanks for this. I tried the FTP builder and my estimated FTP and VO2 max went down after 5 weeks of sticking to it to a tee, so I bailed. My feeling the whole time was: this is was too intense and interval based. It’s just overtraining.
Gonna get back to my 3 basic long duration aerobic sessions a week, build up volume, and see if I can salvage this mess. Ugh.
I just finished the Zwift 4 Week FTP Booster program. I decided to give it a shot because it fit in nicely between the end of CX season and a trip my wife and I had planned for the beginning of February. Overall I felt the weeks were too easy. Even with a slight head cold for 2 of the 4 weeks, I was able to do all of the work without feeling overly taxed. I increased the 60 min Z2 rides to 90 mins to keep my weekly TSS over 450. After the 4 weeks my FTP increased by 2 watts from step test I did the week before starting the program and my Training Peaks Fitness dropped by 1 point.
Thank you for this content! I just got going on trainer about a week ago and something seemed very off about their workouts. I think I’m going to use it primarily to just spin out long endurance rides during the winter to keep my legs moving. I just got going on a swift trainer about a week ago and something seemed very off about their workouts. I think I’m going to use it primarily to just spin out long endurance rides during the winter to keep my legs moving. Again, great content. Thank you, Dylan.
Good video, I agree. Zwift training plans are terrible. The only plan I found that’s halfway decent is TT Tune-up. As an Ironman Triathlete there’s lots of sweet spot and steady state/ cruise intervals in this plan.
The only point I disagree with you is on intervals. I prefer intervals on the trainer for safety reasons.
Would be nice to have just a fee that is a good plan on zwift. Or show a good chart. Easy to make a custom one.
Dylan's comments are spot on. It's not easy for me to say that as I'm a *huge* fan of Zwift, and the platform has helped me achieved my best fitness in over 10 years. For me, the biggest issue (and greatest strength, incidentally) with Zwift is its accessibility. Never before has such a variety of rides/races/workouts, as well as legions of riders of all levels, been so available at all hours of the day and night. This is a very wonderful thing!
However, I see people going way overboard with the racing & hard rides, as well as the workouts and plans Dylan mentioned. I slightly differ from his remarks in that I believe race level efforts and hard group rides are the bigger threat than the workouts/plans. The latter will be self limiting because they are so difficult, assuming a correct FTP. My own decades of amateur experience tells me that many of these folks making huge gains in mid-winter will be plateauing big time, burning out, or generally stale come summer.
I might end up being included in that statistic myself since I've set up an aggressive plan in terms of TSS on Training Peaks. Since I rarely race or do prescribed workouts, this means lots of volume up to Tempo/SST intensities. We'll see how it works out....
Thank you. Just want to reiterate that I'm in no way bashing Zwift. I think it's a great tool to keep your motivation up. I'd just stay away from their workouts and training plans.
Hi Dylan, i agree with almost all the things u said except for the fact that is better to perform high intensity workouts outside: When i ride outside i can't concentrate only in watt or rpm because of the traffic, obstacles, crossroads, animals and so on. I prefer indoor for this kind of efforts (let's say Z4 and 5 i don't train a lot over theese zones) and, after many years i've build a paincave with a very good fan system that allows me to train indoor even in august. It's true that when i'm outside i have some more watts in my legs (not a lot unfortunatelly) but i also perform ftp test indoor so the intesities are well estabilshed. I'm a triathlete and i see a lot of pro perform high intensity sessions indoor (not only indoor obviously).
For every other thing i completely agree with you...good points (and is what i try to tell to my zwift mates when i see them performing all this 'quality' stuff)...
That's a great point and as you get more used to riding indoors your power indoors vs. outdoors comes up. Thank you.
Create your own workouts on intervals.icu then export them to zwift.
This is a refreshing channel. Thanks dude
Spot on comments re Zwift training plans, especially re specificity and over training. I've used several Zwift based programs for my Jan thru March training here in the NE. I did use one 2 winters ago that wasn't overly complicated, but I was challenged to find the rest weeks (I'm 58 and need them.) I now use mostly my own custom ERG workouts based on simple zone training and interval reps.
As a coach, mosty agree. The reason why I prefer the smart trainer is the ERG mode, simply design the workout with the Tacx app, than go through.
It is extremely helpful for the athlete and coach.
There are some points where I have to agree... I was reading books about training, like the cyclists training bible and "Training and Racing with a Power Meter". I heared the FTP Booster plan was designed by the authors of the training bible. In this book they said that you should spend ~ 70 % of your time below AeT (so in Zone 1 and 2), ~20% of time above AeT and below AnT (Zone 3 and 4) and up to 10% in above AnT (Zone 5 or higher).
In week 4 of the FTP builder plan you spend a lot of time in zone 3, and above, neglecting the base. In the book the authors talk about that as a cyclist you should spend the first years as a beginner to build a solid foundation (Zone 2 and maybe a little zone 3) - But in the workouts its definitely more Tempo and above.
They also say you should take a rest week, reducing your TSS a little during that week to adapt to the changes and start over refreshed, yet the FTP Booster workout seems to last 6 weeks, always increasing in TSS. I wrote down every important bit of these two books, creating a "cheat sheet" for me if I forget some of these important things. When I compare this to the FTP Builder workout, it seems that the plan doesn't always follow what they explain in their own books. So I'm confused...
I generally agree with your assessment of the "canned" Zwift plans and individual workouts. However, there are actually quite a few decent individual workouts in their library, you just need to dig for them. That said, they have a really nice tool for creating your own workouts and I like using Zwift for those just so I have something to control the ERG wattage and keep me on task. I disagree with your assessment that outdoor intervals are better. I'd actually ague the opposite. With the right conditions inside (big airflow, low humidity), it is much more controlled and repeatable and there is no performance drop off if you have the right equipment. If you are riding indoors in a hot humid room with a single $40 box fan, of course performance is going to suffer.
Awesome video! I might contest one point you made about the quality of workouts being better outdoors than indoors. If you can get some fans to cool you down during your ride and keep your body temperature low, then I'd say the quality you get indoors may in fact be better. How many of us can ride outdoors at a high intensity without stopping for a stop light/stop sign/construction or some other interruption? I bet not many.
Great point. I live in a rural area near mountains so I have access to long climbs with no interruptions but I realize not everyone has that. Thanks!
@@DylanJohnsonCycling Yeah that's what I figured. Looking forward to the next vid.
Started using zwift on smart trainer after mtb crash to recover and get fit, sustained a severe concussion and still cant ride outdoors. Only spending 50mins (including warmup and cooldown) training. Mate gave me a few good plans to follow, clear most zwift stuff is rubbish. A solid 40/20 session, a sst session and inbetween all that recovery rides and 2 days strength work
A zwift 2020 academy review would be cool
Switched from Zwift to TR and I'm loving it. I'm training 6-7 hours per week and TR has the higher intensity at the beginning of the 4 week block, sweet spot longer intervals at the end of the third week and recovery during the 4th week. It also regularly schedules the ramp test to ensure that you are training at the proper FTP.
What's TR?
This is an amazing video Dylan. Very helpful!
This was a really good video breaking down what Zwift does but, you also went into what makes a proper training program and why keeping it simple is more effective than making it complex
No need to overcomplicate things!
There are hundreds of Zwift workouts and some are bang on, but I have given up on the training plans. Also on many workouts, you can adjust your FTP. So it is what you decide.
Yup very hit or miss
Thank you. I great critic that can be used elsewhere. Further, a great lesson on what a proper program may look like.
As a PT and cycling coach I had the same WTF respond when watching the zwift ftp building sessio´s for the very first time..
Excellent points. One thing I've found is that some of the most experienced cyclists I know have a core set of workouts they use that can be counted on one hand. They may vary the number of intervals but the consistency makes it possible to track progress and detect early signs of over training. Most training plans have too much variety during the set in my opinion.
Exactly! I've found the same thing.
Stephen Seiler says the same exact same thing in his interview with Trevor Conner on the " Fast Talk " podcast .They literally laughed at how complicated the programming is on these platforms .The best just work " bread and butter " time in zone intervals . I like to follow champions like Dylan for advise , not those that are basically selling motivation and entertainment . Good training just really isn't really all that sexy , as Seiler puts it .@@DylanJohnsonCycling
Zwift 4wk FTP Booster program is set up to increase your 20min max power in short time. If your target is to ride 3h in summer at a higher pace as a sportive recreational cyclist you will get in trouble because you trained for 20min only, but this 20min you can crush. I did the Booster workout last year after Zwift 12wk winter programm. The 12wk winter programm has long units at low intensity, rest days, long and short intervalls, which is quite a good mix for a non professional. After programms end, I had a good base and were putting some watts on top of my FTP after Booster programm.
All in all Zwift plans are very good if non professional cyclist follow them. This is much better than just riding without structure, which is typical for many non professional cyclist without trainer. Even in the case I end up on a plateau, this plateau is much better than before. In addition in summer I go out for having fun at cycling with friends without following structured training. So all in all, there are better plans outside and the interaction with a trainer will improve your results further, but for people without trainer Zwift programms are really good.
I can say that the FTP Booster program in Zwift delivers. I'v been on Zwift för 2,5years now an I often hear of good results. It starts of slowly so its good for beginners and set a good discipline and they can get the feel that concistency is the biggest and most component.
I use both - clipless are better in marginal situations. Climbing on slippery terrain or through mud in a low gear where the grip can suddenly vanish, your feet naturally keep up with events. The only other time I like them on the road are when riding fixed gear.
I am using rides from Zwift Training plans and find them beneficial. I also use TP and watch my Fatique, Form and Fitness. I let those numbers lead to my rest days etc... Zwift is free and it gets me through the winter without just jumping on my bike and going for a ride. I appreciate the structure. In April I will switch to a purchase and customized plan from TP. Not sure what the motivation was to produce this video but in my opinion it looks bad on CMT. Of course your plans are customized and personal and better. They are also too expensive for most amateurs to use year-round.
Hey Dylan, The only zwift workout that I would recommend during the winter is the 'pedaling and cadence drills'. In my opinion they are great to build up the speed during winter base period. They consist of one-legged pedalling for the first half an hour and they 1min spin-ups at 135+ cadence. Really teaches your body to stay relaxed and not to waste energy on unnecessary movements. They have a random zone3/4 10min tempo at the end but that can be easily skipped. For the rest of the winter base workouts, I am using zwift as a motivational/monitoring device to target specific zones, and I plan to do all my high intensity outdoors(weather should start to get better at the end of my last base period block), so I am happy to hear that's what an accomplished cyclist as you suggest as well.
I agree 100% on Zwift workouts being too interval based, just like Trainerroad's sweet spot base plan. Ideally 2 interval sessions a week and the rest being low intensity sessions will be enough to see performance gains, BUT you want to start your training when you're closer to the season. I've made the mistake before of starting the offseason training too early into the offseason which resulted in plateauing and burning out early into the season.
I've been on Zwift for 18 months. I load my 'Today's Plan' programs straight into Zwift (or my Garmin if I ride outdoors). I like Zwift for motivation and because I live in the Great White North. I do my recovery rides in a social group ride when I can. Overall Zwift has been a huge help but my specific, periodized ongoing program is from Today's Plan.
Thanks Dylan it's to the core, I have one consideration about high intensity session after a rest day like u said on Tuesday! That's a big mistake if u meant a rest day is full rest day. My point here is a rest day means a passive recovery day that's OK, but if it is a full recovery day followed by a high intensity session that will cause your muscle to produce a big amount of lactic acid even if u had a good warm up.
This winter was the first time I ever actually did cycling workouts ever and it's really because of Zwift. HOWEVER! I agree with a lot of the workouts being way over complicated. I have done lots of running and swimming workouts in the past. I have never seen any workout as crazy as some of the zwift workouts. It's like they can't decide what to do. If you look through the selection though you can find a good number that aren't that crazy.
Zwift academy 20 was very good, recommend any one doing those , just finishing off the tri ones now, great workouts, was thinking of doing build me up on zwift, but no way to pause the plan, so no go for me, maybe takes Dylans advice and make my own on his 6hrs a week. Good stuff.
Like my CTS plan so far, I am far from even thinking about being competitive other than strava segments. But yesterday's intervals...in very uncharacteristic february AZ weather...intervals outside put me in cold induced asthma conditions...so today, my intervals will be my first time using zwift. As for peaking early...by the time it is June, my bike will mostly hang and I will be in the pool :-)
I agree about the zwift plans , I don't use them.
Interesting you say do HIT sessions outside. I do most of my training in the winter indoors . If you lived in the UK you would too🤣🤣
I love training indoors ,as trying to keep warm takes so much out of me, and I take longer to recover. I don't do many long rides and race cyclo cross. I also race longer MTB races up to 4 hours-6 hours and question whether I need to do long training rides?
I have to disagree, I used to just ride in Zwift and since I started doing the Zwift Workouts I’ve increased my FTP, my endurance, control my heart rate, etc. I haven’t been more in shape than now!
So, 8 months after you posted this, how has it been since? I’m going to bet money you aren’t even using swift anymore.
This video was posted a year ago so just wondering if this has changed for the better. Have Zwift training plans improved at all
I think there are newer ones that make better sense, but they are done by trainers. You can see their logos in the plan details. Best is always to upload your personal plan to Zwift
I have subscription of both trainer road and Zwift. I run both simultaneously. Trainer road all sensors connected, but in zwift only power n cadence connected. trainer road on ERG mode... minimize trainer road after starting the ride .. n enjoy ur scenery on Zwift.
So in sum: zwift workouts are designed to keep you from getting bored, but in doing so, they sacrifice a bit of best practice when it comes to the workouts or training programs themselves (seemingly random intervals, no consistent focus on zones, no real training specificity, often hardest intervals later rather than earlier, and perhaps the biggest one, inadequate rest). But I'd say, given that I am (and most people are) working out indoors out of necessity, and working out indoors generally sucks, I probably see more gains because zwift plans keep me engaged, whereas a scientifically optimal plan would bore me to death and kill my motivation
Fair enough. A Zwift plan is 100x better than nothing at all!
@@DylanJohnsonCycling And helpful video. I certainly will be throwing in more rest days now!
Amazing FTP Booster 4wk, Im repeating that 4 wk plan for 3 time and it's amazing. HIT 45 is terrible with 86 tss for 1 hour
Any thoughts on their newer Build Me Up training plan? Seems better than their others.
As an older, beginner cyclist I am looking to ramp up my FTP. When I started running, I used Couch-To-5K which is interval based to get strong/fit enough to handle the steady-state endurance workouts. Would some of these Zwift workouts help me get into shape so that I can keep up on group rides?
Agree on most points. However, the trainer is a better place for me to assure consistency in the intensity and duration of intervals. On the road, you have to contend with stopping, downhill coasting and other factors that assure that the legs are getting numerous micro breaks throughout. Very difficult to assure full intervals are being done. With respect to zwift and TrainerRoad, the rider is basically having to take responsibility for their own coaching. Very hard to do that objectively.
I agree with that, especially if you don't have long climbs close to you. Certainly advantages and disadvantages to both.
Dylan Johnson your point is well taken. Some places lend themselves to better outdoor interval training than others. I would also add that club / group rides can be a lot of fun, but they can be training plan killers.
Yup, you need to add them into your plan strategically.
Totally agree. Love Zwift but I use a structured evidence based training plan for my intervals. Glad someone made this video. Its like they threw some random intensities together just so they could say hey we have workout plans too! These plans lack understanding of proper periodization and seemingly a complete misunderstanding of how to formulate a workout to target physiological adaptions. Most users would be almost better off coming up with something by themselves.
Well said.
his first example is from a fondo workout, he say 'random', the workout simulates the random efforts of a fondo ride.
you can also create your own workout
Just started cycling a couple of months ago indoors (due to the Canadian winter). Look forward to watching and learning more from you! Really appreciate the great videos!
Michael Cairns glad you’re finding the info helpful!
You are right, I burnt out on the last week of the FTP booster and on the next training plan ended up with dead legs a few weeks into it.
I’ve resisted Zwift for years and stuck with a dozen or so TrainerRoad workouts. Got me from being a decent age grouper to racing pro this year. Although I don’t use them, would be curious in your thoughts on TR plans. Really enjoyed the video (although not sure I can’t quite agree with the idea that intervals should be done outside - really specific VO2 work is just much safer and more specific with controlled conditions inside). Keep up the great videos!
I'll have to look at the TR plans. Thanks!
Also would love a video on trainer road. Just finished sweet spot base 1 & 2 and started the short power build phase which is a lot of high intensity but only 60/90 mins in duration and lots of recovery in between the work. I chose this because I think my main aim this year is to build my 1-5 minute power which I think is my weakest element and have lots of short steep climbs where I live. I also do most of my training on a turbo due to work weather and family commitments. Normally do a longer ride on a Sunday but very hard to stay in zone 2 has its quite hilly. Thanks for the great training videos. Really helping me understand more 😄👍
@@son200219 I need to take a closer look at the TR stuff but from my limited experience with it and from what you are describing they are written better than most Zwift plans. 1-5 minute power can be built very quickly and then plateau which is why they are generally used in the month or two before an important event. Do you know what time of the year you want to be peak form?
Got events in may then pretty quiet through summer then start again early September
@@son200219 That's a great schedule because it allows you to rest and rebuild mid season. I'd recommend starting high intensity intervals in march and then really ramping them up in april.
Thanks for this good quality video... you seem impressively knowledgeable and experienced for a young guy. My personal issue with Zwift is that I prefer the motivation, challenge and fun that can come from virtual races -- helps me to push myself in an otherwise boring indoor environment. But there is no structure to this and the races are not always at convenient times that fit my schedule. I'm an age-group 70.3 and 140.6 triathlete and find that TrainerRoad plans and workouts are structured well and help me improve my fitness. If only I could find a more practical way to combine the structure from TrainerRoad with the entertainment of Zwift. On long steady indoor rides without high-intensity intervals, I run TrainerRoad on my mobile phone and Zwift on my computer simultaneously. It's a bit geeky but helps pass the time.
exactly what I do
I run both on the same computer. I connect my trainer to TR using Ant+ and run it in minimized mode, then connect Zwift using Bluetooth and turn off trainer control. Once going if the Zwift video is choppy I turn off wifi and it's back to snappy fast, then turn it back on when my workout is down to upload workout data.
As someone who's undergone a National Program for 5mos during a winter break, I feel most of these online programs are too much as mentioned. Ive done TR before and yes, it does keep your FTP at a "level" where you come back decent on the road, but don't rely on the #s too much as there's so much variables outside that you won't experience with the the wattages unless you're Mathew Hayman strong and have 20hrs/wk to train (and subsequently win Paris Roubaix)
Despite this, I will be immersing myself in the smart trainer/Zwift realm to "ride" Alpe D Huez and such virtually. It would be a nice workout to try. I will leave the structured training to my coach.
Thanks Dylan. My racing days were over more than 30 years ago, but I still remember that workouts we did back then were focused on particular heart rate zones (no power meters back then). So, when I saw what Zwift offered, I was somewhat hesitant to do those strange workouts. You reinforced my unwillingness greatly :) That being said, GCN workouts are much more sensible for someone with enough self-control to pace through them with enough recovery time.
Great videos. Thanks. What is your thoughts on sufferfest? Their 4DP and plans? Cheers
Can you create you own Zwift workout plan ? I would be very interested.
I'd be down. I'm going to talk to some of the higher ups at CTS about having some CTS Zwift plans. I'd be the one writing them.
Yes, u can.
@@DylanJohnsonCycling Any update on that?
Dylan Johnson do it!
I used sufferfest and got bored of their videos after a while. I like zwift and have been doing their 4 week booster plan as I don't have loads of time. I tend to do the 4 week plan over 6 weeks though. I got an 8% ftp increase after 6 weeks. I've used trainer road too and it was good but its pretty boring, atleast zwift keeps you motivated to get on the bike. I think its good enough for the majority/cost. Lots of options to then do other plans on zwift too. All coaches seem to have their own opinions on everything!
Hahaha just done the zwift ftp builder and really was struggling on that 5 by 4 min zone 3 then 5 x 5 zone 4 have seen an ftp increase though but will be definitely applying your advice into future training
I just like doing the races on Zwift. But what about Sufferfest or Traiber road? Please review those.
Great vid! I get the science but in this case and this year I think the plans work for me. I'm new to cycling, eager to get fit. The workouts keep me engaged, I'm losing weight, getting faster and fitter and all seemingly with no downsides as there is no "plan" for the year. VA has no beginner road races scheduled for 2021.