Absolutely I was hearing him talk at the end of the “amazon series” and am thinking are you kidding me? This show is going to be Lore Desecrating trash disgrace to Tolkien. This channel is pretty good and informative I plan to read The Silmarillion its probably the best Era for me being The First Age where you got Morgoth and his twisted creations of Orcs and corrupted Maiars to Balrogs he truly was a threat with him and Sauron as his rite hand man, his army of Orcs, Balrogs, Dragons and Goblins sadly we will never see it in Cinema or a faithful adaptation at least.
Yes they should include the history of the 2nd age. It seems to me the story of the entwives especially compelling as an expansion of the excellent ent characters and the tasty destruction of Saruman at Orthanc
It would be nice seeing Sauron's story on the screen. I would image that they'll probably try to keep it fairly low key at first given his machinations behind the scenes.
I like the idea that early on he was just this sneaky dude,Then once the one ring was forged he just went to smackin around soldiers up until he lost the damn ring
If Amazon intends to have a multi-season series which seems to be the case, the production should commence at the beginning of the Second Age. Show what the Elves of Middle-earth did right after the War of Wrath, and why the Edain establish a powerful kingdom on Númenor a couple of decades into the Age, and go on from there. If the series begins somewhere in the middle, or gods forbid, near the end of the Second Age, much of the lore about the whys and wherefores would be lost to the lay person or casual reader of Tolkien.
don't worry they will be too busy making everyone an SJW, non binary, gay, a diversity checkmark, while crafting a strong progressive message to be worried about such a thing as actual lore or context
I would absolutely love if they had every main thing that Sauron did in the second age because he is the main villain in the second age. I personally think Sauron was a much cooler character in the second age than in the third age so I'm excited to see him in the Amazon Prime show.
I agree that Sauron is more interesting in the second age. I realize more and more that the events of the third age are but a final struggle in a long and drawn out war. The events of the trilogy, while undeniably important, are just a little end cap on a very full bottle of soda. …. mmmm soda….
@@SG-jq5vt yeah, the LotR trilogy is basically just Return of the Jedi, without "A New Hope" or "The Empire Strikes Back" Actually, even that is reductive, as each age *millennia* long
@@KuLaydMahn well put I do sort of enjoy that approach though however it does leave a lot of questions for people who have only seen the films or read the trilogy alone.
Yep, all Sauron all day! I’d love to see what he’s been up to in the 2nd Age. The question is, will Prime be able to pull off a deep dive into such a complex character?
No one should ever expect anything except commercial effluvia across all domains of life nowadays. Our bodies and minds are actively being turned into sludge by the 'produce' of this disgusting, immane global business project. Might as well just disengage from the modern world entirely.
He did many thing but ultimately he will be remembered in the second age as one of the most prominent orcmanitarian in history, second only to the founder of the orcanisation. Thoughtful fella.
Great video! I would only like to point out that the "ghastly temples in the shade" (The Lay of Leithian) that the Men of Shadow built in Middle-earth in the Second Age were for the worship of Sauron himself, not Morgoth, for "To them Sauron was both king and god" (The Silmarillion). It was only in Numenor that he encouraged the cult of Morgoth, not out of sincere gratitude/reverence to his old leader,, but because Sauron could "hardly propound himself" (Morgoth's Ring) a god after seemingly being 'cowed' by Ar-Pharazon. He did indeed resume the preaching of pure Melkorism, but that was later in the Third Age and then he claimed to be Morgoth returned/reincarnated. You yourself quoted that he wanted to be "master of all things", so he did not bend most peoples to Morgoth's allegiance -not directly, at least- but to his own as a god-king, if he could. Sorry for the long comment. Other than this detail great video and the use of quotes from the novels (not to mention the research done) is much appreciated! Keep it up! :))
@R.I.P Robert Richter Parks ...and the naive will always naive, and sycophants will always sycophant. It doesn't take an istar to predict this cash-grab will suck like all the others in this foul age.
@Codrugs Then I'd be overjoyed. But I don't trust modern creators. I've been burned often enough and that I'm not willing to trust something as important as Tolkien's work to modern creators.
@Codrugs I hear you . Unfortunately there're always CONSERVATIVE elements in society that have a profound fear of ANYTHING new. This fear means that JUDGMENT against something new is JUSTIFIED, despite having no EXPERIENCED evidence.
I’ve been a viewer from the first and will follow to where your kingship goes. Thank you for your enthusiasm, work and passion toward your passions. I loyal follower
a thing I felt was lacking in the movie, they never said anything about Celebrimbor or that Sauron hadn't touched the Elven Rings, instead, the way it was described made it sound like Sauron made them all. I feel like that could be confusing for non-book readers, like I remember my niece asking me why the elves never became Nazgul too
I think I just assumed that since men was so easily corruptable, that was the reason for the men but not the dwarves and elves to turn into ringwraiths.
I’ll admit to being one of those who assumed that he created all the rings and I was wondering why the dwarves and elves were not corrupted. In my defence I did read LotR many years before and had forgotten much.
I would consider the fall of Numernor one of the main stories they should cover, especially since Elendil and Isildur already appeared in the Fellowship movie
I would love for them to show every major event that Sauron contributes toward with a smattering of minor acts, too. There's so much potential for interesting content and seeing all the details (or their version of the details) of Sauron's rise would be incredible!
What is awesome, is your guys’ content! It makes me want to read the Silmarillion, which I have not had a strong desire to do in the past. That means a lot because I do not think the Amazon Prime show would or even could make me want to do that!
To answer your question? Yes. Please. Give me a series about Sauron's rise and fall. One of the most fatal flaws of fantasy novels is the fact that the stories they tell are often nowhere near as engaging and intriguing as the stories they merely reference. The LOTR novels/films fall victim to this, showing us the adventures of a few folks while fantasy equivalent of World War 3 rages, and we only get a few glimpses into the major war in the books and films. The battle of Helm's Deep, the Siege of Isenguard, Pelennor Fields, and the Battle at the Black Gate. While Frodo and the Fellowship's tale is wonderful, I'm the kind of person who prefers the Iliad to the Odyssey. A clever hero is fun, but fields of battle with heroes, villains, and common folk rising to the call is the sort of stuff that really fires me up.
Why is Ar-Pharazon drawn so wildly differently between slides? When Sauron is made to kneel before him. he looks like a War God, in full panoply and in such a way that just screams "LOOK HOW MIGHTY I AM!" Then, in the next slide, he is drawn looking like Xerxes from 300 or something to that effect. I know it is not a big deal, but the second look is immersion-breaking.
I very much enjoyed the video. That being said, I believe you are being far to optimistic about what Amazon is going to do with Tolkien's writings and legacy.
You liek ein commento? How bout Sploosh? On a very related side note, thank you for providiing stabilizing background while I handle absolutely terrible situations as my job.
22:50 You forgot the fact that the fight between Sauron and the High Kings was in the slops of Mount Doom, not at the front side of Barad-dur. That duel has happened after Sauron destroyed the besiegers forces of the Last alliance. Sauron was extremely weakened during the downfall of Numenor by Eru Illuvatar but however *he managed to break the siege of Barad-dur and destroy all the besiegers single handedly.* The Dark Lord drove the last alliance back to the Mount Doom then he find the location of the 2 kings and the duel began. Also Tolkien described the distance between Mount Doom and Bard-dur as *30 miles.* We can imagine Sauron while he crushing the elven and men skulls through 30 miles in his way to the vulcano. Sauron is a beast! Sadly, the films never showed this kind of epic scenes
@@meduseldtales3383 Who said that? Your theory is the ridiculous one. Sauron broke the siege and pushed the enemy host back to the mount Doom. First he caught Gil-Galad and *destroyed* him(as Isildur described) then he slayed Elendil brutally. The dark Lord himself was thrown down after his victory too. Dont be offend but your sounds like a Sauron-hater good side fanboy lmao. Go and learn some lore instead of the silly fanfictions. "... for seven years, and suffered grievous loss by fire and by the darts and bolts of the Enemy, and Sauron sent many sorties against them. There in the valley of Gorgoroth Anárion son of Elendil was slain, and many others. But at the last the siege was so strait that *Sauron himself came forth* ...". [The Silmarillion (Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age)] "Sauron came forth" Tolkien doesn't say like "Sauron fled" dude... I really h'ate your fanfic here. Sauron needed time to regain his own strength but Gil-Galad didn't let him to do. But however Sauron managed to break the siege, and drove the forces of the Alliance back in fear and panic throughout 30 miles single handedly. "Sauron was, of course, 'confounded' by the disaster and diminished *(having expended enormous energy in the corruption of Númenor). He needed time for his own bodily rehabilitation,* and for gaining control over his former subjects. [The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien (Letter 211 to Rhona Beare)] Therefore, after a time he made war upon the Exiles, before they should take root. Orodruin burst once more into flame, and was named anew in Gondor Amon Amarth, Mount Doom. *But Sauron struck too soon, before his own power was rebuilt,* whereas the power of Gil-galad had increased in his absence. [Appendix A. (I) The Numenorean kings (i) Númenor, Return of the King]
@@leonardofaber5823 He was there, but weren't Elendil and Isildur in Andunie? The question was about them. I know Isildur had to come and retrieve a fruit from the tree, but was he or his dad there other than then?
If this Amazon show doesn't portray Sauron's cruelty adequately enough to earn his namesake, then its gonna suck. I know they're going to ruin it on purpose but a brother can dream, can't he?
@TheBrokenSword - Lore question: Celebrimbor made the Three as a follow-on project. Whom were the 16 Great Rings to be bestowed upon? I could count maybe eight (Gil-Galad, Elrond, Cirdan, Celeborn, Galadriel, Amroth, Oropher, and Amdir) but cannot think of whom the other eight would bear them. Your thoughts please?
The Peter Jackson trilogy of The Lord of the Rings was so legendary that no one has attempted to do a remake on them and I don’t think anyone will attempt it for a long long time. Especially after seeing Rings of Power, producers and directors will be even more put off. It’s quite similar to the Joker role played by Heath Ledger, the performance was so legendary that no actor can do a good enough job on that role anymore.
Love your videos, but can you slow down a little when you're talking about ancestry information? A girl needs to process! Would be so helpful to see a genealogy tree too.
I heard he spent most of his time laying a bit HIS FAVOURITE GAMES:Warcraft,Warhammer, Dungeons&Dragons, Might&Magic, ... He was big into sword &sorcery!
I mean, not really, and kind of hard to compare a cosmic Titan who’s done all kinds of insane things with varying degrees of storytelling, because of different artists and writers, against an analogy for satan in a downcast angel type backstory. Very different settings, universes, etc. I do enjoy lotr more than almost any comic I would say. Some comics are just amazing like old man Logan or the one where doom takes over everything and rips out thanos’s spine. Just pretty hard to compare is all I’m saying.
I was wondering. When you read the passage, early on in the video. In it, it said something about about the bonds Melkor places on him. So, does it mean that Melkor had imprisoned Sauron, in a way, or does it mean he just fell back into old habits he learned, while under Melkor.
23:30: _...he lost the power to form a body in the physical world up to well into the 3rd age._ Until well into the 3rd age? AFAIK, the ring was lost to him for good, so he never gained this ability again.
That's not true, and something only inferred in the movies. Sauron was able to take a physical form later into the third age, but would not regain his full power until he obtained his ring again. He did have a physical form, with 9 fingers, he just never left Baradur during the war of the ring and mainly used his palantir
I just want the show to tell the actual story without any inappropriate outside agenda built in. By that, I mean I want them to keep modern politics and our own social issues *completely* out of it. Just do Tolkien's sotry and legitimate lore. Literally nothing else.
I would love to see every single town and village with all its inhabitants all across Middle earth in live action. Even if its justs briefly. Including beleriand and the deep south and east!
So I was under the impression that Isildur cut the ring in combat with Sauron similar to the movies. Not like off his body after he fought Elendil and Gil-Galad? Is that what happened?
I am about to start a Burning Wheel Campaign set in south eastern Middle Earth, exploring the consequences of the Blue Wizards' meddling. I am using the Khmer Empire as an analog, set against the succession struggle after their greatest God King. Annatar, or perhaps an agent will intervene, gifting a Ring of Power to he who will become Khamul. I am really looking forward to applying Tolkien's Lore to Asian roots instead of European.
@@Aurora2097 Most of the Sauronic Cults are based on an Evil Buddhism, with an awful form of Karma that people get what what they deserve. Slaves deserve to be slaves, Masters deserve to control slaves, and Rulers become more powerful as a result of a series of Reincarnations acquire more temporal power. Hinduism becomes a degenerate form of Valar Worship. Elves are feared, they are supposed to drink the blood of babies to maintain their eternal youth. Some practice possession by evil spirits to gain magical powers. The Jungle is scarier than any forest of the West.
Ug. Amazon Rings of Power is such a poor representation of Tolkien’s works. I feel bad for those not familiar with the source material, because they might end up liking a real tragedy of a story.
So.. I have been binging these videos on LotR background lore and Sauron seems pretty insane. But in D&D terms, I understand it that he is also a lich and the One Ring is his phylactery, yes?
Great video! Love it Can you imagine, even with the ring, he was defeated by Numenorians, i can imagine him standing next to the king, and wearing that one ring, i wonder why elfs didn’t tell Numenorian king to take his ring and cast it into the fire of mount doom
Because that Numenorean King did not like the Elves nor listen to them. Actually, he didn't even converse with them. He attacked and captured Sauron on his own due to slights that Sauron had made against Numenor.
I've been trying to learn Spanish on Duolingo for five years now. I bet Sauron was probably struggling to learn a language on Duolingo during that time as well 🦉
I absolutely would like to see the early stories of Sauron, but since the economics and logistics of raising and maintaining his forces seem absolutely impossible even for a god, I don't want to see them try to thread that needle, but instead I'd like to see way way way further back when Sauron was first being corrupted by Melkor.
Its a weird question but was sauran appearence more of a goth or like a male galadriel with voldemort eyes ? All this sketch art with different looks has meesed up how sauron looked like for me in second age
The biggest issue I see is that there are two huge events in the 2nd Age. 1) The creation of the Rings of Power and the War of the Elves and Sauron 2) The downfall of Númenor, the founding of Gondor and Arnor, and the War of the Last Alliance These events are separated by over 1500 years and the events themselves span over a century each. What I would like to see is one or more seasons devoted to each event and use of prologues or flashbacks to explain such things as the founding of Númenor, Lindon, Eregion, etc and any significant events that occur outside the time of the main events.
Amusing to think, by the time rings of power progresses you’re gonna have to change this, seeing as they are totally messing up Tolkien’s world. You don’t seem to mind though. Shame how much manipulation comes with a little bit of cash
If Sauron had succeeded and conquered all of Middle Earth, do you suppose he would have eventually crossed swords with Morgoth? He raised temples of worship for his master, but he is a backstabbing power-hungry psychopath at heart. I don't imagine once he had a taste of total rule that he'd be so eager to share it or simply give it up upon Morgoth's prophesied return.
Morgoth's prophesied return was for a long time into the future. I can't imagine Sauron would accept a submissive role to Morgoth after ruling Middle Earth for millenium. Would Morgoth be able to take back the power that the embedded into Middle Earth?
This may be a silly question, but are there instances when the "gods" and creators intervened in the conflicts of middle earth directly? I know they have given gifts as a reward, but have they given anything prior to an event to prevent it from happening? I ask this because it seems like Sauron's creators should be able to find him fairly easily if their powers were so vast to even create life.
The Valar (the "gods", lowercase g) have intervened in Middle Earth directly. The most recent was the end of the First Age, when they came with the Host of Valinor and threw down Morgoth/Melkor. This struggles laid waste to the western part of ME (called Beleriand) and ended up sinking it beneath the ocean. The Valar also came to ME after the Elves awoke (and they found out about it) and defeated and captured Melkor/Morgoth then. This also caused tremendous topological changes in ME. Basically, the Valar come themselves to fight one of their own (ie, Melkor). And these fights are very, very destructive. So they keep such sojurns/fighs to an absolute minimum. The Valar also want to keep any harm that they might do the Children of Iluvatar (the all-powerful Creator God) to an minimum as well. The Children are Elves and Humans. The Valar did send warnings to Numenor as the Numenoreans turned away from them. These got more strident as the Numenoreans prepared their great invasion. The Valar did send Maiar (less gods or angels) to provide assistance against Sauron. These were the Istari - Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, and the 2 Blue Wizards. And they sent the resurrected Glorfindel back to ME with Maia-like powers. Sauron was a Maia, so they sent emissaries of the same order to deal with him. As far as Iluvatar (or Eru), He didn't intervene very much. Only where absolutely necessary or specifically requested by the Valar (as in the destruction of Numenor, in which Eru also made the world a sphere and removed Valinor from it). A point to make is that the Valar did not create life. Only Eru/Iluvatar can do that. And He was the only one who did. Could the Valar come to ME and throw down Sauron? Yep, the certainly could. But in so doing they would have to fight and wade through the humans that are subervient to Sauron. And they would cause unknown but potentially great destruction and upheaval. As I mentioned, these are things that the Valar try to avoid if possible. And, at the end of they day, Sauron might get away anyways. He has done so at least twice before.
@@nooneatall8072 my goodness! That's quite the explanation! It's been a while since I posted that question and I appreciate the reply! I've read it through it once, but I'm going to have to read through it more thoroughly to see if I could read something that gives even more background than you have given. Thank you for the response and the jumping off points!!!
Sauron probably would have had a better chance if he mass produced rings and gave them to the peoples of Noldor and the kingdoms of men. Had he done this, he would have had a massive army of corrupted followers
he was building schools for under privileged trolls, good guy Sauron always looking out for the less fortunate.
@Hugh Mongous probably need wait a few generations
not to mention creating millions of jobs for the orcs of Mordor
The Annatar School of Gifts for Trolls and Orcs and Other Creatures Who Can't Read Good
This comment is pure gold!!!
@@jima6545 I must agree 😂😂
Had to comment again because I neglected to mention how *fantastic* this video about Sauron's exploits in the Second Age was!
Good for you
Dont have to high hopes for the show, glad i found your channel - i feel this content will be far better than the amazon show
Absolutely I was hearing him talk at the end of the “amazon series” and am thinking are you kidding me? This show is going to be Lore Desecrating trash disgrace to Tolkien. This channel is pretty good and informative I plan to read The Silmarillion its probably the best Era for me being The First Age where you got Morgoth and his twisted creations of Orcs and corrupted Maiars to Balrogs he truly was a threat with him and Sauron as his rite hand man, his army of Orcs, Balrogs, Dragons and Goblins sadly we will never see it in Cinema or a faithful adaptation at least.
Oh man... we were so hopeful a year or two ago...
Yes they should include the history of the 2nd age. It seems to me the story of the entwives especially compelling as an expansion of the excellent ent characters and the tasty destruction of Saruman at Orthanc
I love the background of him its probably one of my favorite
New name, same quality content! keep it up! it's amazing
Thanks! Will do! :D
@@TheBrokenSword what was your original name?
With the new channel and videos I'm enjoying middle earth all over again...
Thanks
It would be nice seeing Sauron's story on the screen. I would image that they'll probably try to keep it fairly low key at first given his machinations behind the scenes.
I like the idea that early on he was just this sneaky dude,Then once the one ring was forged he just went to smackin around soldiers up until he lost the damn ring
believe they've said he won't be in the entire first season
Only if it was made by non woke people, they ruin everything they touch.
@@jacobl6714 How's RoP treating everybody ?
If Amazon intends to have a multi-season series which seems to be the case, the production should commence at the beginning of the Second Age. Show what the Elves of Middle-earth did right after the War of Wrath, and why the Edain establish a powerful kingdom on Númenor a couple of decades into the Age, and go on from there. If the series begins somewhere in the middle, or gods forbid, near the end of the Second Age, much of the lore about the whys and wherefores would be lost to the lay person or casual reader of Tolkien.
don't worry they will be too busy making everyone an SJW, non binary, gay, a diversity checkmark, while crafting a strong progressive message to be worried about such a thing as actual lore or context
@@Peter-by3ox i know, i really hope they dont botch it but lets be real.
I would absolutely love if they had every main thing that Sauron did in the second age because he is the main villain in the second age. I personally think Sauron was a much cooler character in the second age than in the third age so I'm excited to see him in the Amazon Prime show.
9
I agree that Sauron is more interesting in the second age. I realize more and more that the events of the third age are but a final struggle in a long and drawn out war. The events of the trilogy, while undeniably important, are just a little end cap on a very full bottle of soda.
…. mmmm soda….
@@SG-jq5vt yeah, the LotR trilogy is basically just Return of the Jedi, without "A New Hope" or "The Empire Strikes Back"
Actually, even that is reductive, as each age *millennia* long
@@KuLaydMahn well put
I do sort of enjoy that approach though however it does leave a lot of questions for people who have only seen the films or read the trilogy alone.
I’ve got bad news for you…
Yep, all Sauron all day! I’d love to see what he’s been up to in the 2nd Age. The question is, will Prime be able to pull off a deep dive into such a complex character?
Nope 🙅♂️
Spoiler alert: no
@@ecthelion1735 you were right. They absolutely did not.
😂😂😂
No one should ever expect anything except commercial effluvia across all domains of life nowadays. Our bodies and minds are actively being turned into sludge by the 'produce' of this disgusting, immane global business project. Might as well just disengage from the modern world entirely.
He did many thing but ultimately he will be remembered in the second age as one of the most prominent orcmanitarian in history, second only to the founder of the orcanisation.
Thoughtful fella.
Great video! I would only like to point out that the "ghastly temples in the shade" (The Lay of Leithian) that the Men of Shadow built in Middle-earth in the Second Age were for the worship of Sauron himself, not Morgoth, for "To them Sauron was both king and god" (The Silmarillion). It was only in Numenor that he encouraged the cult of Morgoth, not out of sincere gratitude/reverence to his old leader,, but because Sauron could "hardly propound himself" (Morgoth's Ring) a god after seemingly being 'cowed' by Ar-Pharazon. He did indeed resume the preaching of pure Melkorism, but that was later in the Third Age and then he claimed to be Morgoth returned/reincarnated. You yourself quoted that he wanted to be "master of all things", so he did not bend most peoples to Morgoth's allegiance -not directly, at least- but to his own as a god-king, if he could. Sorry for the long comment. Other than this detail great video and the use of quotes from the novels (not to mention the research done) is much appreciated! Keep it up! :))
The amazon show is going to be an affront to Tolkien. Expect to be heartbroken.
_WoKe_ cancer ruins everything.
@R.I.P Robert Richter Parks well, rumors of a black, female Gsndalf doesn't fill me with confidence.
@R.I.P Robert Richter Parks ...and the naive will always naive, and sycophants will always sycophant. It doesn't take an istar to predict this cash-grab will suck like all the others in this foul age.
Amazon represents the age of the Orc that has come.
I can listen to this for hours and feels like sec goes by
Yes, show his entire story throughout the 2nd age and add in more lore to fill the gaps but DO NOT omit anything.
Or else 😅
@@decimalexercise7154
WAR!! xD
We'll be lucky if they do, but I wouldn't raise hopes.
@@JLeoni96 give it time as the Rings of Power is stated to have five seasons total (with seasons one and two confirmed).
And it looks like the stupid "Rings of Power" series is completely going to ignore the whole "Lord of Gifts" angle. Disgusting!
I'd rather there not be an Amazon show at all. Tolkien's work deserves better than the Game of Thrones treatment. Or the modern politics.
C..I h..t v j.
Yah it’s gonna be gay somehow
@Codrugs Then I'd be overjoyed. But I don't trust modern creators. I've been burned often enough and that I'm not willing to trust something as important as Tolkien's work to modern creators.
@Codrugs if you think art created by a mega corporation is going to be good then you haven’t been paying attention.
@Codrugs I hear you . Unfortunately there're always CONSERVATIVE elements in society that have a profound fear of ANYTHING new.
This fear means that JUDGMENT against something new is JUSTIFIED, despite having no EXPERIENCED evidence.
I love “BUILD ME AN ARMY WORTHY OF MORDOR” love your work
Thanks :)
I’ve been a viewer from the first and will follow to where your kingship goes.
Thank you for your enthusiasm, work and passion toward your passions.
I loyal follower
Thank you 😊
I bet the amazon tv show will end with that last battle of the 2nd age, right where the fellowship of the ring movie picks up on the story.
a thing I felt was lacking in the movie, they never said anything about Celebrimbor or that Sauron hadn't touched the Elven Rings, instead, the way it was described made it sound like Sauron made them all. I feel like that could be confusing for non-book readers, like I remember my niece asking me why the elves never became Nazgul too
I think I just assumed that since men was so easily corruptable, that was the reason for the men but not the dwarves and elves to turn into ringwraiths.
I’ll admit to being one of those who assumed that he created all the rings and I was wondering why the dwarves and elves were not corrupted. In my defence I did read LotR many years before and had forgotten much.
I would consider the fall of Numernor one of the main stories they should cover, especially since Elendil and Isildur already appeared in the Fellowship movie
How could you makes literally no sense the way they handled it
I would love for them to show every major event that Sauron contributes toward with a smattering of minor acts, too. There's so much potential for interesting content and seeing all the details (or their version of the details) of Sauron's rise would be incredible!
This didn't age well.
@@billbaggins1688 Sadly.
Thank goodness these videos were restored.
Amazon will screw up the story, they shouldn't be doing any of it.
HBO would have been a safer choice.
Talking about screwing. I wasn’t expecting Galadriel and Sauron
Enjoying a ride on a raft with Galadriel, right?
Sauron just wanted to make middle earth great again!
What is awesome, is your guys’ content! It makes me want to read the Silmarillion, which I have not had a strong desire to do in the past. That means a lot because I do not think the Amazon Prime show would or even could make me want to do that!
Silmarillion is the greatest book ever written in my opinion. I read it almost daily for 10 years gaha
During the second age, he was making ringed shaped fart bubbles in his bath while eating elven croissant.
To answer your question? Yes. Please. Give me a series about Sauron's rise and fall. One of the most fatal flaws of fantasy novels is the fact that the stories they tell are often nowhere near as engaging and intriguing as the stories they merely reference. The LOTR novels/films fall victim to this, showing us the adventures of a few folks while fantasy equivalent of World War 3 rages, and we only get a few glimpses into the major war in the books and films. The battle of Helm's Deep, the Siege of Isenguard, Pelennor Fields, and the Battle at the Black Gate.
While Frodo and the Fellowship's tale is wonderful, I'm the kind of person who prefers the Iliad to the Odyssey. A clever hero is fun, but fields of battle with heroes, villains, and common folk rising to the call is the sort of stuff that really fires me up.
Once again, fantastic video, are you having in plan to do a live stream sometime? I would like to see you soon!!
Thank! Yeah definitely plan to! Just struggling to fit one in at the moment :(
this video was of great help. I just finished prime's ring's of power.
I can see the differences in actual lore and show.
Why is Ar-Pharazon drawn so wildly differently between slides? When Sauron is made to kneel before him. he looks like a War God, in full panoply and in such a way that just screams "LOOK HOW MIGHTY I AM!" Then, in the next slide, he is drawn looking like Xerxes from 300 or something to that effect. I know it is not a big deal, but the second look is immersion-breaking.
I very much enjoyed the video. That being said, I believe you are being far to optimistic about what Amazon is going to do with Tolkien's writings and legacy.
You liek ein commento? How bout Sploosh?
On a very related side note, thank you for providiing stabilizing background while I handle absolutely terrible situations as my job.
How have I only just found your channel!!? This is AMAZING! Have you ever done a history of Morgoth? I would love to see that
I will be honest, I really miss the original video of this one greatly. Especially the background music.
22:50 You forgot the fact that the fight between Sauron and the High Kings was in the slops of Mount Doom, not at the front side of Barad-dur. That duel has happened after Sauron destroyed the besiegers forces of the Last alliance. Sauron was extremely weakened during the downfall of Numenor by Eru Illuvatar but however *he managed to break the siege of Barad-dur and destroy all the besiegers single handedly.* The Dark Lord drove the last alliance back to the Mount Doom then he find the location of the 2 kings and the duel began.
Also Tolkien described the distance between Mount Doom and Bard-dur as *30 miles.* We can imagine Sauron while he crushing the elven and men skulls through 30 miles in his way to the vulcano. Sauron is a beast! Sadly, the films never showed this kind of epic scenes
Naturally Tolkien never wrote anything so ridiculous. Sauron was trying to escape, but he was caught at the slopes of Mt. Doom.
@@meduseldtales3383
Who said that? Your theory is the ridiculous one. Sauron broke the siege and pushed the enemy host back to the mount Doom. First he caught Gil-Galad and *destroyed* him(as Isildur described) then he slayed Elendil brutally. The dark Lord himself was thrown down after his victory too. Dont be offend but your sounds like a Sauron-hater good side fanboy lmao. Go and learn some lore instead of the silly fanfictions.
"... for seven years, and suffered grievous loss by fire and by the darts and bolts of the Enemy, and Sauron sent many sorties against them. There in the valley of Gorgoroth Anárion son of Elendil was slain, and many others. But at the last the siege was so strait that *Sauron himself came forth* ...".
[The Silmarillion (Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age)]
"Sauron came forth" Tolkien doesn't say like "Sauron fled" dude... I really h'ate your fanfic here.
Sauron needed time to regain his own strength but Gil-Galad didn't let him to do. But however Sauron managed to break the siege, and drove the forces of the Alliance back in fear and panic throughout 30 miles single handedly.
"Sauron was, of course, 'confounded' by the disaster and diminished *(having expended enormous energy in the corruption of Númenor). He needed time for his own bodily rehabilitation,* and for gaining control over his former subjects.
[The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien (Letter 211 to Rhona Beare)]
Therefore, after a time he made war upon the Exiles, before they should take root. Orodruin burst once more into flame, and was named anew in Gondor Amon Amarth, Mount Doom. *But Sauron struck too soon, before his own power was rebuilt,* whereas the power of Gil-galad had increased in his absence.
[Appendix A. (I) The Numenorean kings (i) Númenor, Return of the King]
I love the appearence of sauron in the shadow of morder/war games
Did Sauron meet Isildur or Elendil while in Annatar form back on Numenor?
Good question. What do you think?
Quite possibly, for Elendil's father (Amandil) was not only the last Lord of Andúnië, but also a member of the King's Counsil
@@leonardofaber5823
But weren't the Faithful ousted from the council before Sauron's coming?
@@Enerdhil Amandil was still part of Ar-Pharazôn's counsil when Sauron arrived, retrieving himself after some time of corruption
@@leonardofaber5823
He was there, but weren't Elendil and Isildur in Andunie? The question was about them. I know Isildur had to come and retrieve a fruit from the tree, but was he or his dad there other than then?
If this Amazon show doesn't portray Sauron's cruelty adequately enough to earn his namesake, then its gonna suck. I know they're going to ruin it on purpose but a brother can dream, can't he?
I would love it if they included as much as this as possible
This is brilliantly done- thanks!
love the new channel
Thanks :)
Commenting to help with the algorithm.
Love your vids. listen to them at work!!!!!!!!!!😁
You remind me of the men of the west I enjoy every video I've seen so far keep up the good work you got real talent bro
Well, break my sword and call me Elendil…
Very well done as usual!
@TheBrokenSword - Lore question: Celebrimbor made the Three as a follow-on project. Whom were the 16 Great Rings to be bestowed upon? I could count maybe eight (Gil-Galad, Elrond, Cirdan, Celeborn, Galadriel, Amroth, Oropher, and Amdir) but cannot think of whom the other eight would bear them. Your thoughts please?
Sauron was at the peak in the Second Age. Powerful and cruel. Malicious
The Peter Jackson trilogy of The Lord of the Rings was so legendary that no one has attempted to do a remake on them and I don’t think anyone will attempt it for a long long time. Especially after seeing Rings of Power, producers and directors will be even more put off. It’s quite similar to the Joker role played by Heath Ledger, the performance was so legendary that no actor can do a good enough job on that role anymore.
Oh man.. they should have watched this before they made the series 😂🤦
Awesome video. Is there a visual timeline for these events, that I can look up online ?
Yes. This account of Sauron should be part of the Amazon's series.
Love your videos, but can you slow down a little when you're talking about ancestry information? A girl needs to process! Would be so helpful to see a genealogy tree too.
you can drop the speed slightly in settings😊 it helps with faster speech.
I heard he spent most of his time laying a bit HIS FAVOURITE GAMES:Warcraft,Warhammer, Dungeons&Dragons, Might&Magic, ...
He was big into sword &sorcery!
Sauron was the ultimate bad guy. He makes Thanos look like a rank amateur. He should definitely be a focus of the new Amazon series.
I mean, not really, and kind of hard to compare a cosmic Titan who’s done all kinds of insane things with varying degrees of storytelling, because of different artists and writers, against an analogy for satan in a downcast angel type backstory. Very different settings, universes, etc. I do enjoy lotr more than almost any comic I would say. Some comics are just amazing like old man Logan or the one where doom takes over everything and rips out thanos’s spine. Just pretty hard to compare is all I’m saying.
Great job guys
I was wondering. When you read the passage, early on in the video. In it, it said something about about the bonds Melkor places on him. So, does it mean that Melkor had imprisoned Sauron, in a way, or does it mean he just fell back into old habits he learned, while under Melkor.
23:30: _...he lost the power to form a body in the physical world up to well into the 3rd age._
Until well into the 3rd age? AFAIK, the ring was lost to him for good, so he never gained this ability again.
That's not true, and something only inferred in the movies. Sauron was able to take a physical form later into the third age, but would not regain his full power until he obtained his ring again. He did have a physical form, with 9 fingers, he just never left Baradur during the war of the ring and mainly used his palantir
I just want the show to tell the actual story without any inappropriate outside agenda built in. By that, I mean I want them to keep modern politics and our own social issues *completely* out of it. Just do Tolkien's sotry and legitimate lore. Literally nothing else.
I would love to see every single town and village with all its inhabitants all across Middle earth in live action. Even if its justs briefly. Including beleriand and the deep south and east!
So I was under the impression that Isildur cut the ring in combat with Sauron similar to the movies. Not like off his body after he fought Elendil and Gil-Galad? Is that what happened?
In the books, Elendil and Gil-Galad defeated Sauron, but were killed in the process. Isildur cut the ring off a defeated Sauron.
Love it, keep up the good work
I am about to start a Burning Wheel Campaign set in south eastern Middle Earth, exploring the consequences of the Blue Wizards' meddling. I am using the Khmer Empire as an analog, set against the succession struggle after their greatest God King. Annatar, or perhaps an agent will intervene, gifting a Ring of Power to he who will become Khamul.
I am really looking forward to applying Tolkien's Lore to Asian roots instead of European.
Sounds really cool! I,often wonder what the unknown lands in middle-earth were like...
@@Aurora2097 Most of the Sauronic Cults are based on an Evil Buddhism, with an awful form of Karma that people get what what they deserve. Slaves deserve to be slaves, Masters deserve to control slaves, and Rulers become more powerful as a result of a series of Reincarnations acquire more temporal power.
Hinduism becomes a degenerate form of Valar Worship. Elves are feared, they are supposed to drink the blood of babies to maintain their eternal youth. Some practice possession by evil spirits to gain magical powers. The Jungle is scarier than any forest of the West.
Just started watching your channel. Love it. Tell the history of Aragorn if you haven't already
He has a video on just Aragorn. Its in the Playlist under the Good Characters.
Amazing video. Very enlightening.
Ug. Amazon Rings of Power is such a poor representation of Tolkien’s works. I feel bad for those not familiar with the source material, because they might end up liking a real tragedy of a story.
Did Sauron just sidle away while Eönwë was rambling on or was Manwë’s herald just so incompetent?
So.. I have been binging these videos on LotR background lore and Sauron seems pretty insane.
But in D&D terms, I understand it that he is also a lich and the One Ring is his phylactery, yes?
Is there any information on when the series on amazo wil air?? Thanks so much for the enlightenment
First episode supposed to come out on 2 September 2022. I think they missed a trick by not making it on September 22, but who am I to judge?
Great video! Love it
Can you imagine, even with the ring, he was defeated by Numenorians, i can imagine him standing next to the king, and wearing that one ring, i wonder why elfs didn’t tell Numenorian king to take his ring and cast it into the fire of mount doom
Because that Numenorean King did not like the Elves nor listen to them. Actually, he didn't even converse with them. He attacked and captured Sauron on his own due to slights that Sauron had made against Numenor.
great video mellon, it's really sad to see you guys stop posting on your old channel
I've been trying to learn Spanish on Duolingo for five years now. I bet Sauron was probably struggling to learn a language on Duolingo during that time as well 🦉
i heard he isnt in the first season :/ but i would looovvve to see his full story!! great video learned a lot!
Great content
I absolutely would like to see the early stories of Sauron, but since the economics and logistics of raising and maintaining his forces seem absolutely impossible even for a god, I don't want to see them try to thread that needle, but instead I'd like to see way way way further back when Sauron was first being corrupted by Melkor.
Its a weird question but was sauran appearence more of a goth or like a male galadriel with voldemort eyes ? All this sketch art with different looks has meesed up how sauron looked like for me in second age
Best LOTR content ever!!!
Thank you!! 😁
Fanfic in my head Ciryatur ends up becoming the witch king
Mostly, he just sat around his golf club, Mor-dor-Lago, plotting the demise of his enemies
I wonder what kind of process (alchemy or the like) Sauron used to infuse the rings with their properties and how he connected the 16 to his One.
I have question, but first let me say I love your Content I am trying to watch them all. Where can I read all this information??
Quenta Silmarillion and The Lord of the Rings
The biggest issue I see is that there are two huge events in the 2nd Age.
1) The creation of the Rings of Power and the War of the Elves and Sauron
2) The downfall of Númenor, the founding of Gondor and Arnor, and the War of the Last Alliance
These events are separated by over 1500 years and the events themselves span over a century each.
What I would like to see is one or more seasons devoted to each event and use of prologues or flashbacks to explain such things as the founding of Númenor, Lindon, Eregion, etc and any significant events that occur outside the time of the main events.
Yeah, they'd have to change cast almost every season and make huge timejumps ...
@@Aurora2097 Elves and Maiar as POV characters can easily fix that, and then gradually introduce the Numenorians as the story goes on in S2
Amusing to think, by the time rings of power progresses you’re gonna have to change this, seeing as they are totally messing up Tolkien’s world. You don’t seem to mind though. Shame how much manipulation comes with a little bit of cash
Reader
Your vitriol
It’s note worthy
If Sauron had succeeded and conquered all of Middle Earth, do you suppose he would have eventually crossed swords with Morgoth? He raised temples of worship for his master, but he is a backstabbing power-hungry psychopath at heart. I don't imagine once he had a taste of total rule that he'd be so eager to share it or simply give it up upon Morgoth's prophesied return.
Morgoth's prophesied return was for a long time into the future. I can't imagine Sauron would accept a submissive role to Morgoth after ruling Middle Earth for millenium.
Would Morgoth be able to take back the power that the embedded into Middle Earth?
Would of been nice if amazon had just stuck to tolkiens work. People trying alter and tweak does not work on perfection scripture. Keep it as it is😪
Why did Sauron not float off with the ring like at Numenor?
Oh what could have been. Except the hollowydians, corrupted and fallen under shadow had other plans with the streaming show.
It sounds like Sauron wore his ring to Numenor. So how did the ring survive the flood and ruin of the island?
14:06 whatcha means ‘shipmaster’ in Quenya
You mean “in Enya”, voice of the elves
Very interesting
Can you please tell us about Morgoth after dagor dagorlad .
This may be a silly question, but are there instances when the "gods" and creators intervened in the conflicts of middle earth directly? I know they have given gifts as a reward, but have they given anything prior to an event to prevent it from happening?
I ask this because it seems like Sauron's creators should be able to find him fairly easily if their powers were so vast to even create life.
The Valar (the "gods", lowercase g) have intervened in Middle Earth directly. The most recent was the end of the First Age, when they came with the Host of Valinor and threw down Morgoth/Melkor. This struggles laid waste to the western part of ME (called Beleriand) and ended up sinking it beneath the ocean.
The Valar also came to ME after the Elves awoke (and they found out about it) and defeated and captured Melkor/Morgoth then. This also caused tremendous topological changes in ME.
Basically, the Valar come themselves to fight one of their own (ie, Melkor). And these fights are very, very destructive. So they keep such sojurns/fighs to an absolute minimum. The Valar also want to keep any harm that they might do the Children of Iluvatar (the all-powerful Creator God) to an minimum as well. The Children are Elves and Humans.
The Valar did send warnings to Numenor as the Numenoreans turned away from them. These got more strident as the Numenoreans prepared their great invasion.
The Valar did send Maiar (less gods or angels) to provide assistance against Sauron. These were the Istari - Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, and the 2 Blue Wizards. And they sent the resurrected Glorfindel back to ME with Maia-like powers. Sauron was a Maia, so they sent emissaries of the same order to deal with him.
As far as Iluvatar (or Eru), He didn't intervene very much. Only where absolutely necessary or specifically requested by the Valar (as in the destruction of Numenor, in which Eru also made the world a sphere and removed Valinor from it).
A point to make is that the Valar did not create life. Only Eru/Iluvatar can do that. And He was the only one who did.
Could the Valar come to ME and throw down Sauron? Yep, the certainly could. But in so doing they would have to fight and wade through the humans that are subervient to Sauron. And they would cause unknown but potentially great destruction and upheaval. As I mentioned, these are things that the Valar try to avoid if possible. And, at the end of they day, Sauron might get away anyways. He has done so at least twice before.
@@nooneatall8072 my goodness! That's quite the explanation! It's been a while since I posted that question and I appreciate the reply! I've read it through it once, but I'm going to have to read through it more thoroughly to see if I could read something that gives even more background than you have given. Thank you for the response and the jumping off points!!!
I would rather watch and listen to a handful of youtubers who appreciate Tolkien than watch anything on TV, theaters, etc...for now...
yup, so far enjoying these way more than the Rings of Power.
Sauron probably would have had a better chance if he mass produced rings and gave them to the peoples of Noldor and the kingdoms of men. Had he done this, he would have had a massive army of corrupted followers