Fun fact: in modern Greek the word for dog is ΣΚΥΛΟΣ (remember there is no letter C in Greek) for female dog is ΣΚΥΛΑ so yes her name means BITCH. She has 6 dog heads...
The reason he had to go through the cave is actually mentioned in "Suffering". The siren sings, "He (Poseidon) will chase you high and low. So find a place he'd never go. The one way you'll get home is sailing where he's scared to roam. It's through the lair of Scylla." Odysseus mentions that there's a price by going through Scylla's cave, but the siren confirms it's the only way home.
Also when the siren mentions Scylla, we hear music from Circe, albeit slowed down, referencing at least musically the person who cursed Scylla into what she now is.
Scylla is 'just' a monster in Greek mythology, but all the gods avoid her and are actually terrified of her. Going through her lair was a 'where angels fear to tread' sort of situation to avoid Poseidon as long as possible.
"Row for your lives" has a sadistic double meaning. Not only is he saying "Row if you want to get out of this alive!", but also the ones that are rowing aren't holding torches, so they're not marked for death.
Odysseus was the only one talking to the siren about Scylla and that she has a cost. At the cave, Eurylochus notes how he’s “been quiet”. Odysseus didn’t tell his men about Scylla because they most likely wouldn’t have agreed.
One thing about the story is Scylla cave right next to this water wave pool which there a narrow path that whey go through so Odysseus never told his crew about monster as if they freak out they would all die from the unbalanced as they go into wave pool. As they go Scylla took 6 men as the rest rowing for their life leaving Odysseus the one protecting. This was a story that I read there could be different version. Also this was most worst thing he seems in his entire life. As his soldiers can only reach to him and yell his name.
yeah like to me at first it seemed like she was just talking about Eurylochus, but then at the end when Ody harmonized with her it clicked to me that it was about him too
I always felt like it was a misdirect, that you THOUGHT it was talking about Eurylacus, and the ending showed that nope it was Ody she was talking about.
So, Apollo and the sun are a much newer association due to greco-roman syncretism. At the time of the odyssey, Helios is the Sun God. Yes, Apollo also have cows, but these are Helios's cattles.
Yes, an apt explanation is that Helios is literally the Sun God, while Apollo is merely a god of the sun. More a minor role, sprinkles on the ice cream, as it were
@@tengenuzui8425 I always thought it was bizarre how Zeus is top dog while being in charge of lightning, but the *sun god* is considered a minor deity. But I suppose the sun plays a passive interaction with Earth in comparison to lightning bolts, so that could be the reason the solar deities don't get much notice within Greek mythos.
@@sundalosketch4769Zeus is not just thunder and lightning, he also has the whole sky as his domain. But making himself a bigger deal then he is is very in character for Zeus. Like Hades just did not feel up for all the drama and bitchfight, so he chose the domain no one wanted but that is needed, poseidon is ocean, Strom und earthquakes, technically almost everything bad that can happen to you but yeah, lightning sure Zeus you are the top dog. . . .
13:05 To answer the synthetic harmonies. In one of Jay’s TikTok’s where he broke down Scylla, he mentioned that normally there would be harmonies done with regular voices. However, due to Scylla being a monster, he wanted her to sound not of this world and terrifying so he had her sing the main melody, duplicated it, and pitched it up/down to a harmonizing note to make those synthetic monstrous vocals
If you go back and listen to Scylla's rock verses, you can actually hear exactly 6 screams from Ody's crew in the background, some of them crying "Help!"
For Mutiny Little Hidden BTS Lore, one of the cut songs from Epic have the verse "It's not my job to keep them happy, it's my job to bring them home..." which perfectly parallels what Ody is going through after Scylla
I’m sure people will mention this but Ody had Eury hand out 6 torches as sacrifices for the 6 heads of Scylla, with Eury included. So he had him pick which friends to die unknowingly, which makes the fact that they still seemed close after their fight (calling him Ody/friend) so tragic. And the fact that Eury was clearly done with fighting and lost all hope of getting home
To be fair I feel like this is more about Ody not wanting to be the one to choose the holders since it would make him feel even worse than he already does for bringing them to Scylla
@@Sam_Less I thought it was to clear out the possible other dissenters. Like Ody knows Eury didn't get the bag alone, so he was like hold a torch and pass out torches to the rest of your closest because they probably helped you. He had to sacrifice men, it might as well be the men that sabotaged the fleet.
I'm so glad that a reactor finally understood what "you know that we are the same" meant, so many people are just confused by that thinking she's talking to eurylochus
Huge sea monster w many rows of teeth is a related sea monster named Charybdis who lived nearby. Scylla has always been a little more... imaginative haha
@@wynnefox The wolf head-legs centaur is the closest to the original mythos description. I was surprised to learn that after learning about her from Epic. You'd think a Kraken or eels would fit a cursed daughter of Posiedon better. I like the oddity though.
@@sundalosketch4769 The daughter of poseidon getting a land based predator animal instead of a sea based animal or land based prey animal like a horse as a curse makes plenty of sense to me now that I think about it like that.
@@kadensyco5618 I mean in some myths he is the god that created horses when trying to either become or get chosen to be a city states like.. main god. But it was Athena that created reins, aka, making them fully useful to humans. Hence one telling of how Athens got its name.
26:02 Technically, yes, Apollo is the son of Zeus. However, when the Odessey took place, Apollo was not the god of the Sun. The god of the Sun in that time was still Helios. I made that same mistake until I read the Illiad.
So many musical background reaction channels practically make zero comments on the actual music, which is why you're my FAVORITE music related reaction channel!
That’s why I watch several channels :) I love Mortius’ reactions to the plot and stuff, but it’s also very nice to learn from Peter about all the tiny music details. Together, they make a complete experience :) Too bad it takes Peter forever to release new videos X)))
In the odyssey, the most direct route home is along a narrow straight in between Charybdis and Scylla. Venture too close to Charybdis and your entire boat will sink, too close to Scylla and she'll eat your crew. The crew doesn't have the supplies to afford going around without reaching starvation. In Epic, Poseidon is likely waiting on the safe path around Scylla, and he's already killed over 500 crewmen. So it's safer to go through Scylla, even though her 6 heads will eat 6 men, that's still fewer than losing everyone going the "safe" route
The sun god is Helios. Appolo wasn't really turned into a sun god until the Romans got hold of him (and of Greece). He was originally the god of music and archery and some other stuff and the Sun was added later. In the Odyssey Helios was the god of the sun.
Not only did Odysseus know what was coming He orchestrated their deaths The line light up 6 torches. Is it called back to the odyssey In which Odysseus goes through Syllas layer you have to willingly sacrifice Six men by having them carry torches to Divert sylla attention
Nah, in the Odyssey it was more of an accident that he took advantage of. Scylla and Charybdis are in the same lair/passage, and in order to avoid one you have to move dangerously close to the other. Odysseus is waiting at what he apparently thinks is a safe distance, pondering over how best to play it. Then Scylla snatched up a man in each mouth for a total of six men, and Odysseus is like 'go now!' and they sail right against the cliff where Syclla nests -- or as far as possible from Charybdis -- since Scylla's mouths are already full rendering her momentarily less dangerous, and they manage to make it past. It's not portrayed as something he did on purpose.
@@cyrusellis2114 I mean, from a story-telling perspective it does a good job continuing to set up the kind of hero Odysseus was, always one to think himself out of a tight spot, and not one to hesitate when an opportunity presents itself.
Jorge showed a video a while ago showing that all of Scyllas harmonies are just pitch shifted versions of the melody track, which is why they sound amazing but off/synthesized at the same time
Fun fact about the comment regarding Scylla being light and airy and then going full rock belt: When Jay was hosting auditions he used the bit with "we're lonely demons from hell" lyric with 'sing this as dreamy/light as possible' followed by the music shift and 'and this next part as scary as you can' "CHOKE ON YOUR BLOOD AND YOUR TEARS" As for the Scylla lore: a fairly common variant is that she used to be a beautiful nymph. Some dude fell in love with her and went to Circe to get a love potion to make Scylla fall for him (because why on earth would he try anything else like /talking to her/ /s), only Circe fell in love with /him/, got envious of Scylla, and instead gave the guy a potion to put in the bathing pool Scylla used ("die in the blood where you bathe"), and the next time Scylla took a bath... she transformed into the sea monster she became infamous for being. That whole thing is actually referenced/alluded to in the musical, one by Circe "I have been in love once before", and by how at some point you can hear part of Circe's music/motif in relation to Scylla. Can't remember off the top of my head if it was when the Siren was singing about her lair, or in the actual Scylla song, but that's what Jay explained.
21:50 That high violin is doing the “Danger Motif” at that point. It first shows up way back in The Horse and the Infant when the battle starts and reappears throughout Epic whenever danger is nearby, whether physical or psychological. Sometimes it’s really straightforward and obvious, like it is here. Sometimes it’s a lot more subtle, like Tiresias’s chorus in No Longer You.
here we goooooooooo Here is the answer to your question: he had to go through Scylla’s cave because that was the only was he could avoid Poseidon, that is what he asks the siren in the song before if you’d wanna go back to re watch it and look for that part. And one last fun fact I think the guy who plays Zeus is actually a tenor that had to sing bass
The Odyssey is actually earlier in Greek mythology, so Apollo is not revered as the Sun God at this time, the role would actually fall on the Titan, Helios at this point. Despite the statue in the animatic depicting Apollo.
History or lore question: If that is the case, why would Zues care that Greeks killed one of his enemies' cattle? My Greek lore is extremely hazy, but I the island was still Helios, being the GOD of the sun from Zues camp
@lesyeuxdelisa6556 Yes, but the OP stated it's a Titan instead of a GOD. They were at war with the Titans, right, that's why the GODs were in charge because they took Olympus from the Titan?
@@distinguishedallureproduct879Also in this version I believe there was like a smaller animatic/some form of official confirmation from Jorge that Helios complained to Zeus and threatened the drag the sun to the underworld if Odysseus and his crew were not punished.
Love seeing your Epic the Musical reactions! As for the songs and questions! In 'Suffering' the siren told Odysseus that the only way to avoid Poseidon would be going through Scylla's, a six-headed monster, lair. Knowing the 'cost' going through the lair instead of the open sea, our captain decides to take it, asking Eury to light up six torches (six sacrifices). Song Two is fun musically because the guitar is given to Eury as a sign of him try to usurp Ody in this moment. As for the violin during this part, I'd have to go back and see if you've discovered this already, for now though I'll just say keep that the violin in mind and the choir right after Eury stabs the cow. And lastly, many (myself included) thought of Apollo as the sun god, but this one is referring to the titan god, Helios, the personification of the Sun instead. In the story he couldn't go down to punish them as the literal Sun coming down to Earth would be bad, hence why a certain 'other' god goes in his stead. Can't wait to watch your reactions and analysis of the next sagas!
People miss that his understand a tad monotone delivery is part of his characterisation, he is the straight man of the musical, the stoic, dutiful, pragmatic contrast to polites bright and playful naivity and odys absolut drama. He is not supposed to shine, he is supposed to be odys Lieutenant, his suport, his grounding so ody does not compleatly flies of the handle, but given ody told the godess of wisdom and strategy to piss of cause she implied she knew better the him, he sure as hell was not willing to take his brothers help either . . .makes sense that he starts to shine, when he actualy steps out of odys shade
13:44 the sirens told Ody that going through Scylla's lair is the only way he can avoid Poseidon (who will almost certainly kill him before he can reach home).
14:04 for both EPIC & Lore the reason is because to avoid Poseidon. But in Lore wise there were 2 different choices. 1: Go through Scylla and lose some men 2: Go through a different path, and it’s either ALL survive or NONE. So Odysseus went Scylla. Jorge Decided to only mention Scylla’s Way.
Yeah technically they had 3 choices past Scylla, past Charybdis, or open water(Poseidon), in the original myth they tried to thread the needle but strayed to close and scylla got 6
So Poseidon wouldn’t follow. They are still on the run and the cost of Scylla is only 6 men vs his whole crew and his own life if he caught them. Also it’s Helios the sun god. Apollo is often mistaken as he is more know due to being one of the few to share a name in both Greek and Roman mythology. Helios became Sol. Apollo is the god of archery, music, light, and a few more.
You are correct, the harmonies in the second half of Scylla's chorus are synthesized, Jorge really like the vocal effect that it gave with synthesized harmonies and he has a whole BHS video about it
Sorry if it's already been commented, but the reason Scylla's harmonies are all a bit synthy/electronic is because they're just the Scylla vocal line pitch shifted around to create an unnatural sound :)
One thing I love about the big sword, is that I find it pretty believable. Specifically because Jorge posted a video featuring him and Eury's VA where the dude was swinging a massive branch as a sword for their "sword fight" on a beach set to that part of the song.
Once again your reactions are amazing! I'm going to refer to Gigi's Scylla as "grudge girl" from now on 😂 And from what I remember, this version of a mutiny never happened. This was creative liberty that Jay took. In the original Odyssey, I believe they actually ended up stumbling across Helios' island after Scylla (the sun god is Helios not Apollo. Apollo's more originally associated with poetry, music, health and disease, and archery) and the crew convinces Odysseus to stop there for rest. He agrees but tells them to not kill any of the cows on the island. However, a storm ends up trapping them there for I think like a month(?) and they are running low on food. And Odysseus was sleeping but woke up to the crew having killed several of the cows, hence a mutiny since they went against their captain and king's word. And this naturally pisses of Helios. Who goes to Zeus and tells him that if he doesn't handle the situation, he will go down and light up the Underworld, casting the earth in darkness. So yeah! I'm pretty sure that's what happened! If anyone has more insight or corrections, feel free to say something! This is just what I remember
To be fair, Eury in the original epic was kinda undermining Ody for most of the journey. It was a protracted, quiet mutiny. Luck Runs Out was more on-brand for the literary Eury than Mutiny. He was also a little bit of a nepo hire, given that he was Ody's brother in law.
I'm not sure if you noticed, but during the six Scylla verses where she gobbles up the crew, you can hear the crew members being eaten screaming in the background.
by the way god of sun is Helios Apollo is god of sunlight as far as I know Background information: When they attack the cow he goes to zeus and says "B***! Either you go ther and punish him for his crime against me or I swear I will start living at underground and you can see the sun in your dreams!" Zeus is like "ok..."
It’s neat that when Eurylochus is trying to be upfront with his emotions he goes into a higher register. Someplace he’s not exactly comfortable. We see this on Circe’s isle. Just before he’s told to go search the island and he immediately drops back down into his regular range.
So, am I the only one who died when he called Zeus "Thunder Daddy"? I mean, that not only sums up Zeus's view of women, but the Neal's animantic really drives it home XD
I'm a Hellenic Pagan. Apollo is _not_ the sun god. He wasn't associated with light or the sun until much later in Greece. Helios is the god of the sun.
That violin in mutiny is the danger motif, always there before some sort of danger is ahead, though it can be in different instruments or sung, like the choral one yiu noticed towards the end.
by the way, u can u hear this one motif that repeats often during dangerous moments, because its called a “danger motif” something that jay made to indicate danger is nearby or is right there
Peter love your analysis of the musical! In mutiny ,the violin motif/phrase on top of the Ody electric guitar is called the Danger motif. This is present in many diff forms (chord or arpegio) but in Mutiny it is its simplest form. Its the two decending notes going for 8 bars after Eurylichus says "then you've forced my hand" Its also introduced in the very first song.
I feel so bad for Hades, because while he doesn't ever appear in _The Odyssey_ after Odysseus's men kill the cattle, Helios demands Zeus o something about it, and threatens to BRING THE SUN TO THE UNDERWORLD. Hades would probably be like, "WTF did I do?!" 😂
From what I remember in OG Odyssey by Homer, going through Scylla and Charybdis was a route mapped out by Circe. However in epic, it’s the Sirens who gave the tip to Ody that Poseidon won’t reach him there because that effectively is Scylla’s domain because apparently even he is terrified of Scylla. Also, this was mentioned in one of Jorge’s tiktoks, but the progression of Scylla and Puppeteer for both Scylla and Circe’s themes are similar but with different instruments to show their connection. This is a reference to one story where it’s said that Circe has turned Scylla into a monster because in “There Are Other Ways” she sings “I have been in love once before” referencing the story where Circe feared that the man she loved would be bewitched by Scylla’s beauty (who’s a nymph in that particular story, but she’s already a monster in some other texts I think) thus turning her into a monster. Also for Mutiny, the OG Odyssey didn’t have a mutiny, but they did end up on Thrinacia (Helios’ Island) and actually, it was Eurylochus who suggested to sacrifice the golden cows. However, Odysseus advised against this because in the OG story, Tiresias the prophet in the Underworld, advised them to not hurt Helios’ cows. However they needed to find some way to sacrifice something to get off the island because that was the culture at the time you needed to sacrifice something order to set sail. That, and they were also starving because rations they got from Circe were running low. So, Eurylochus sacrifices the cow, Helios gets angry and threatens Zeus to make the sun shine in the underworld if they’re not punished, they get on the boat, thunder strikes and Odysseus is left floating on a few pieces, washed back to Charybdis before paddling away as hard as he can and waking up 9 days later on Calypso’s island.
The violin that is super present in the musical is playing the "danger motif," not always a violin but if you look out for the melody you pointed out its basically everywhere and signifies that something bad is coming.
One thing I just noticed: that violin you mentioned in Mutiny ( 21:42 ) creates the same melody as in the very first song of the musical The Horse and the Infant after he says "attack" until Zeus appears. Also, the cows are Helios' "pets", not Apollo's :) Edit: I just noticed the violin is a reoccurring motiv, you can also hear it in Warrior of the Mind when Ody is saying "show yourself" until Athena appears. I will be on the lookout for more lmao
the eirie voice of Scylla is probably referring to Scylla originally being one of Circe's nymphs, that's also why Sclla is represented b strings when she appears. Interesting bit of lore if you wanna check it out :) love, magic, jealousy fine greek mythology!
Mythology wise, Scylla would be a beautiful nymph from the waist up and, instead of a lower body, she has six giant serpents with wolf/dog heads... but I LOVE the idea of the moray eels. As for why they did have to go through her cave: the sirens mentioned it was to leave Poseidon's behind since even him is afraid of Scylla.
As mentioned this was his "only" way home that most of his men can survive. In this strait there are 2 monsters actually, one is Scylla which he sacrificed 6 men (1 for each head) to pass and the other is Charybdis which can destroy the whole boat with its whirlpools. Charybdis is literally in here just not that noticeable.
Oh, and history on Scylla, she used to be one of Circe's nymphs until she was harassed by Poseidon and he turned her into that monster for giving him the cold shoulder. He wont go near there because of that. It is why Circe was willing to help Ody at the Poseidon name drop and she actually explained about some of the challenges he'd face.
I'm not sure if there are old visual depiction of sylla, but she used to be a water nymph before being cursed into a monster. As far as I know classical descriptions were that she looked like a beautiful woman on top, and the bottom had 6 monstrous dog heads and she was giant. (Her sister was also cursed and became a monster known as Caribdys) - sorry about any spelling errors hahaha
Go off king process no lyrics😅. Six torches, six heads, six of our friends. But yeah, I really do love your analyses, I've been binging them. My favorite animatic of this song is definitely the one done by VirusAP. Scylla actually CAN get creepier than this. Scylla and Charybdis were two women cursed to be monsters. Scylla with her six heads picked soldiers from the deck until the ship was clean. Odysseus filled all of her mouths at once with the torchbearers, therefore clearing a way to escape. The usual deal is that sailors have to choose between going by Scylla or her sister- two choises both leading to cetrain death. A rock or a hard place, plague or cholera, Scylla or Charybdis
Idk if anyone else has mentioned it plainly, but the 6 sacrifices were due to the 6 torches Odysseus requested to be lit. Ody knew beforehand the sacrifices that "needed" to be made for safe passage and jus got thru it like a disassociated monster (pobrecito)
Ok in the EPIC story he had to go through the Scylla’s lair to avoid Poseidon’s wrath. It’s the same way in the Odyssey but there is an extra detail. Back when Odysseus was repairing his ship for his journey to the Underworld, Circe warned Odysseus there were only two ways to get home without facing Poseidon’s wrath. Either through Scylla or through Charybdis. Scylla requires a sacrifice of 6 men because Scylla’s 6 heads will eat those 6 men. If you sail too slow Scylla will eat 6 more men. The other way is Charybdis, she is this monster that creates whirlpools. Sucking up all the ocean and spitting it back up. However you are in high risk of losing the ship. Scylla is seen as the lesser of two evils. Do you want to gamble your men or ship? Odysseus chose his men as the damage would’ve been lessen if he gone through Charybdis.
In mythology Scylla and Charybdis were one of two entrances to the sea of monsters. If you try to go around them they just respawn in front of you. The other entrance is the wailing rocks but they don’t really matter in this context. I don’t know if Epic is following that specific mythology because the two monsters are separated here.
The sun god they were talking about in mutiny is actually Helios, and the reason it gets dark after they stabbed a cattle (If I'm remembering correctly) is because Helios threatened Zeus and said he'd move the sun to the underworld to light that up and leave the rest in darkness if he didn't get retribution
Wanna mention the cool lyric changes in mutiny; Here we hear "You relied on wit, and then we died on it" as opposed to the original "You rely on wit and people die on it" and to beginf with Ody says "I need to get home" before turning it around to maybe have a better chance to persuade the crew with "We can get home"
"why didn't Odysseus tell him the cows were immortal beforehand?" Ody didn't know the cows were immortal until Eurylochus tried and failed to kill one. Some animatics show the cow bleeding gold when Eurylochus cuts into it, so when Ody sees that their blood is the ichor of the gods he puts two and two together.
In the live stream, after Eurylochus slits the cow's throat, text on screen said Odysseus escaped his restraints. If he was able to get out of his restraints, WHY DIDN'T HE DO THAT LIKE THREE MINUTES SOONER?!
As told to Odysseus by the siren, Scylla's lair was the one route back to Ithica where Poseidon wouldn't be looking for him. However, as he said in reply, "Scylla has a cost". No one passes through her lair unscathed. You either feed her six heads, or she sinks your ship and eats everyone at her leisure. Hence the torches. Six torches to mark out six sacrifices. In the Odyssey, it's actually a choice between passing near Scylla or another monster named Charybdis, and it's Circe who advises him that his ship won't survive the passage near Charybdis, so he should sacrifice six men to Scylla to save the rest.
Reasons to go through Scylla's cave: 1. Poseidon doesn't fuck with Scylla. Even he gives her her space. So he's not there to sink their ship. 2. Her sister, Charybdis, is on the other side of her, and would've killed Everyone instead of just Six people.
In the odyssey Eurylocus is fully aware that the cows belong to helios and what the consequences may be, but he and the crew are on the brink of starvation and he chooses to appeal to helios and kill the cows anyway with the assumption that they'll either be spared or die a faster, less painless, and more honorable death than they would slowly starving. If they survive, they'll build a temple to helios, but if they die they won't suffer any longer
So technically Odysseus and his crew land on the island of Helios, who was the Greek sun god before Roman synchrotism started to bleed over and Apollo overtook his job (just as Artemis did with Selene). He is still related to Zeus, but Helios is his cousin rather than his son.
People try to twist the Circe situation against Eurylochus to frame him as a hypocrite. Yes, he wanted to flee, leaving the men who got turned into pigs, but that was just a small scouting party, a majority stayed with Odysseus. Eurylochus's concern has always been the crew, so when he saw the men turn into pigs, odds are he'd think they're as good as dead, so he wanted to save those that were left.
Yeah but their current situation was worse you have open water=Poseidon and the path next too Scylla=Charybdis, so Odysseus picked the option of least possible deaths
Scylla in mythology has 6 heads hence 6 torches for 6 men and her chorus/ multiple voices. Scylla was a nymph turned into a monster by Circi out of jealousy.
An interesting thing about the song "Scylla" is the number 6. 6 torches 6 heads 6 men sacrificed And 6 screams, one each either with or after each Scylla line It's REALLY freaky when you think about it! Also, the person who stabbed Ody was a side character named Perimedes The sun god in EPIC is actually Helios, not Apollo. He is a sun god, but not the sun god And congrats on getting Zues in Stories From Styx! I can't wait to see it!
I've been edging myself trying to save these two reactions and do the whole thunder saga in one go because we are almost finally at THUNDER BRINGER but I couldn't do it so now it gotta wait for the climax 😩
Peter: "I dunno what kind of monster Scylla is." Me with the illustraitor dad who's drawn her at least twice: "Hehehe... Aw this is gonna be good 😈" (Yes, I already saw Gigi's animatic, awesome design with this interpretation!)
Basically in the original Ody had to pick between Scylla and Charybdis. Scylla being a sea nymph cursed into a six headed Hydra and Charydbis is a huge mouth of teeth that creates whirlpools. Ody picked Scylla as the whirlpools would potentially take out an entire ship while they just needed to fight off Scylla and evade her.
In the original Odyssey, Skylla (or Scylla in English) was not in a cave. They were passing through a straight, often associated with the Strait of Messina between Sicily and Italy. (Much of the Odyssey takes place around North Africa and Italy... bro got REALLY lost.) Odysseus faced a choice: go straight ahead and meet Charybdis the whirlpool, or hug the edge of the cliff and meet Scylla hiding in her cave. With Charybdis, he might be able to make it and save 100% of the crew, or he could get sucked in and lose the entire crew. With Scylla, he would definitely succeed in getting his ship through the strait, but he would definitely lose 6 men to her. To this day, scenarios like this are used in officer training school. It's called "acceptable losses," and when the casualties involve civilians it's known nowadays as "collateral damage." It is one of the more mentally brutal tests of a military leader's fortitude.
As a low brass musician of 30+ years, I really appreciate how you catch the bass lines in this musical. Bass musicians joke that we play some of the most boring parts in the orchestra, but without us the violins are just rainbow sprinkles with no cake. That rising bass line leading up to the thunder crack is a great example. So thank you.
Early access for all my Thunder Saga vids are available on my Patreon! Can't wait to share these with y'all 🌩
Fun fact: in modern Greek the word for dog is ΣΚΥΛΟΣ (remember there is no letter C in Greek) for female dog is ΣΚΥΛΑ so yes her name means BITCH. She has 6 dog heads...
The reason he had to go through the cave is actually mentioned in "Suffering". The siren sings, "He (Poseidon) will chase you high and low. So find a place he'd never go. The one way you'll get home is sailing where he's scared to roam. It's through the lair of Scylla." Odysseus mentions that there's a price by going through Scylla's cave, but the siren confirms it's the only way home.
And the price payed was six men (illuminated by the torches) one for each head
Also when the siren mentions Scylla, we hear music from Circe, albeit slowed down, referencing at least musically the person who cursed Scylla into what she now is.
Scylla is 'just' a monster in Greek mythology, but all the gods avoid her and are actually terrified of her. Going through her lair was a 'where angels fear to tread' sort of situation to avoid Poseidon as long as possible.
"His sword keeps getting bigger", I'm so glad I'm not the only one to notice that.
It grows with every dead man...
@@eleonorayablukova3463 lol he left troy with a dagger
@@felixsonofscouty Technically, he'd have left with nothing, but sure😂
@@felixsonofscoutyLMAOO plss
"Row for your lives" has a sadistic double meaning. Not only is he saying "Row if you want to get out of this alive!", but also the ones that are rowing aren't holding torches, so they're not marked for death.
Odysseus was the only one talking to the siren about Scylla and that she has a cost. At the cave, Eurylochus notes how he’s “been quiet”. Odysseus didn’t tell his men about Scylla because they most likely wouldn’t have agreed.
Not only that, they all had their ears blocked by beeswax. None of them could hear the conversation, and only Ody was reading her lips.
Ody is quiet cause he already decide to have his brother killed by scylla
One thing about the story is Scylla cave right next to this water wave pool which there a narrow path that whey go through
so Odysseus never told his crew about monster as if they freak out they would all die from the unbalanced as they go into wave pool.
As they go Scylla took 6 men as the rest rowing for their life leaving Odysseus the one protecting.
This was a story that I read there could be different version.
Also this was most worst thing he seems in his entire life. As his soldiers can only reach to him and yell his name.
I love that in the beginning Scylla's lines can be applied to BOTH Eurylochus AND Odysseus. It's delicious.
yeah like to me at first it seemed like she was just talking about Eurylochus, but then at the end when Ody harmonized with her it clicked to me that it was about him too
And that is the genious part, I live how hay slays having lines that change meaning
I always felt like it was a misdirect, that you THOUGHT it was talking about Eurylacus, and the ending showed that nope it was Ody she was talking about.
So, Apollo and the sun are a much newer association due to greco-roman syncretism. At the time of the odyssey, Helios is the Sun God. Yes, Apollo also have cows, but these are Helios's cattles.
Yes, an apt explanation is that Helios is literally the Sun God, while Apollo is merely a god of the sun. More a minor role, sprinkles on the ice cream, as it were
I headcanon that as Helios was faded out, he gifted his cows to Apollo. Why? Idk. 🤷🏻♀️
Percy Jackson probably
@@tengenuzui8425 I always thought it was bizarre how Zeus is top dog while being in charge of lightning, but the *sun god* is considered a minor deity.
But I suppose the sun plays a passive interaction with Earth in comparison to lightning bolts, so that could be the reason the solar deities don't get much notice within Greek mythos.
@@sundalosketch4769Zeus is not just thunder and lightning, he also has the whole sky as his domain. But making himself a bigger deal then he is is very in character for Zeus.
Like Hades just did not feel up for all the drama and bitchfight, so he chose the domain no one wanted but that is needed, poseidon is ocean, Strom und earthquakes, technically almost everything bad that can happen to you but yeah, lightning sure Zeus you are the top dog. . . .
"Why did he have to go through the Scylla cave?"
Go back two songs 😅
But going back has a cost!!! 😮😂😂😂
@@distinguishedallureproduct879Well he asked, and now he knows!
Now he should jump in the water!
I love this fandom 😂
Maybe, you should learn to forgiiiiive
13:05 To answer the synthetic harmonies. In one of Jay’s TikTok’s where he broke down Scylla, he mentioned that normally there would be harmonies done with regular voices. However, due to Scylla being a monster, he wanted her to sound not of this world and terrifying so he had her sing the main melody, duplicated it, and pitched it up/down to a harmonizing note to make those synthetic monstrous vocals
If you go back and listen to Scylla's rock verses, you can actually hear exactly 6 screams from Ody's crew in the background, some of them crying "Help!"
For Mutiny Little Hidden BTS Lore, one of the cut songs from Epic have the verse "It's not my job to keep them happy, it's my job to bring them home..." which perfectly parallels what Ody is going through after Scylla
I’m sure people will mention this but Ody had Eury hand out 6 torches as sacrifices for the 6 heads of Scylla, with Eury included. So he had him pick which friends to die unknowingly, which makes the fact that they still seemed close after their fight (calling him Ody/friend) so tragic. And the fact that Eury was clearly done with fighting and lost all hope of getting home
To be fair I feel like this is more about Ody not wanting to be the one to choose the holders since it would make him feel even worse than he already does for bringing them to Scylla
@@Sam_Less I thought it was to clear out the possible other dissenters. Like Ody knows Eury didn't get the bag alone, so he was like hold a torch and pass out torches to the rest of your closest because they probably helped you.
He had to sacrifice men, it might as well be the men that sabotaged the fleet.
I'm so glad that a reactor finally understood what "you know that we are the same" meant, so many people are just confused by that thinking she's talking to eurylochus
Really? I've not seen anyone think that yet from the reactors I've watched. That's an interesting take away to have.
I think it fits both Ody and Eurylochus. For different decisions at different times, but still both.
Huge sea monster w many rows of teeth is a related sea monster named Charybdis who lived nearby. Scylla has always been a little more... imaginative haha
Saw someone draw her as a wolf-centaur like creature with 8 legs and the 6 wolf heads around her waist that was pretty rocking.
@@wynnefox The wolf head-legs centaur is the closest to the original mythos description. I was surprised to learn that after learning about her from Epic.
You'd think a Kraken or eels would fit a cursed daughter of Posiedon better. I like the oddity though.
@@sundalosketch4769 The daughter of poseidon getting a land based predator animal instead of a sea based animal or land based prey animal like a horse as a curse makes plenty of sense to me now that I think about it like that.
My favorite is by VirusAP, it's so freaking creepy. The "human" part of her body is like a tongue in one of her heads.
@@kadensyco5618 I mean in some myths he is the god that created horses when trying to either become or get chosen to be a city states like.. main god. But it was Athena that created reins, aka, making them fully useful to humans. Hence one telling of how Athens got its name.
6:09 The audition instructions were to have the first part be soft and pretty, then after "ROW FOR YOUR LIVES!", have it be scary. KJ nailed it.
26:02 Technically, yes, Apollo is the son of Zeus. However, when the Odessey took place, Apollo was not the god of the Sun. The god of the Sun in that time was still Helios. I made that same mistake until I read the Illiad.
So many musical background reaction channels practically make zero comments on the actual music, which is why you're my FAVORITE music related reaction channel!
That’s why I watch several channels :) I love Mortius’ reactions to the plot and stuff, but it’s also very nice to learn from Peter about all the tiny music details. Together, they make a complete experience :) Too bad it takes Peter forever to release new videos X)))
In the odyssey, the most direct route home is along a narrow straight in between Charybdis and Scylla. Venture too close to Charybdis and your entire boat will sink, too close to Scylla and she'll eat your crew. The crew doesn't have the supplies to afford going around without reaching starvation.
In Epic, Poseidon is likely waiting on the safe path around Scylla, and he's already killed over 500 crewmen. So it's safer to go through Scylla, even though her 6 heads will eat 6 men, that's still fewer than losing everyone going the "safe" route
This. Charybdis is usually called a Whirlpool. Scylla is a cliff-dwelling monster, not in the water as the animatic shows.
1. The theme you're asking about is used to show danger
2. The "sun god" in this case is actually not Apollo, it's Helios.
The sun god is Helios. Appolo wasn't really turned into a sun god until the Romans got hold of him (and of Greece). He was originally the god of music and archery and some other stuff and the Sun was added later. In the Odyssey Helios was the god of the sun.
Not only did Odysseus know what was coming He orchestrated their deaths The line light up 6 torches. Is it called back to the odyssey In which Odysseus goes through Syllas layer you have to willingly sacrifice Six men by having them carry torches to Divert sylla attention
Nah, in the Odyssey it was more of an accident that he took advantage of. Scylla and Charybdis are in the same lair/passage, and in order to avoid one you have to move dangerously close to the other. Odysseus is waiting at what he apparently thinks is a safe distance, pondering over how best to play it. Then Scylla snatched up a man in each mouth for a total of six men, and Odysseus is like 'go now!' and they sail right against the cliff where Syclla nests -- or as far as possible from Charybdis -- since Scylla's mouths are already full rendering her momentarily less dangerous, and they manage to make it past. It's not portrayed as something he did on purpose.
@polyanima awww But I wanted it to be dramatic Thanks for nothing Homer
We've passed leaps in bounds in story telling since then
@@cyrusellis2114 I mean, from a story-telling perspective it does a good job continuing to set up the kind of hero Odysseus was, always one to think himself out of a tight spot, and not one to hesitate when an opportunity presents itself.
He chose his brother as one, and then had the brother chose the other 5
Jorge showed a video a while ago showing that all of Scyllas harmonies are just pitch shifted versions of the melody track, which is why they sound amazing but off/synthesized at the same time
Boosted so Peter can see this. Jorge makes gods and mythological creatures have synthetic music so that they sound less realistic than mortals.
Also most gods or other fantastical creatures can summon their background singers. Scylla just has multiple mouths to sing backup.
Fun fact about the comment regarding Scylla being light and airy and then going full rock belt: When Jay was hosting auditions he used the bit with "we're lonely demons from hell" lyric with 'sing this as dreamy/light as possible' followed by the music shift and 'and this next part as scary as you can' "CHOKE ON YOUR BLOOD AND YOUR TEARS"
As for the Scylla lore: a fairly common variant is that she used to be a beautiful nymph. Some dude fell in love with her and went to Circe to get a love potion to make Scylla fall for him (because why on earth would he try anything else like /talking to her/ /s), only Circe fell in love with /him/, got envious of Scylla, and instead gave the guy a potion to put in the bathing pool Scylla used ("die in the blood where you bathe"), and the next time Scylla took a bath... she transformed into the sea monster she became infamous for being.
That whole thing is actually referenced/alluded to in the musical, one by Circe "I have been in love once before", and by how at some point you can hear part of Circe's music/motif in relation to Scylla. Can't remember off the top of my head if it was when the Siren was singing about her lair, or in the actual Scylla song, but that's what Jay explained.
21:50 That high violin is doing the “Danger Motif” at that point. It first shows up way back in The Horse and the Infant when the battle starts and reappears throughout Epic whenever danger is nearby, whether physical or psychological. Sometimes it’s really straightforward and obvious, like it is here. Sometimes it’s a lot more subtle, like Tiresias’s chorus in No Longer You.
I like that you focus so much on the music. There’s plenty of reactions that are mostly story-focused, so it really makes yours stand out.
"His sword keeps getting bigger" 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
here we goooooooooo
Here is the answer to your question: he had to go through Scylla’s cave because that was the only was he could avoid Poseidon, that is what he asks the siren in the song before if you’d wanna go back to re watch it and look for that part. And one last fun fact I think the guy who plays Zeus is actually a tenor that had to sing bass
Yup, Luke Holt is a tenor!
The Odyssey is actually earlier in Greek mythology, so Apollo is not revered as the Sun God at this time, the role would actually fall on the Titan, Helios at this point. Despite the statue in the animatic depicting Apollo.
To be fair to the animator Apollo also has/had a herd of immortal cows (They belong to Hermes now...) and is the more widely known deity of the sun.
History or lore question: If that is the case, why would Zues care that Greeks killed one of his enemies' cattle? My Greek lore is extremely hazy, but I the island was still Helios, being the GOD of the sun from Zues camp
@@distinguishedallureproduct879zeus is there for the judgement as the god of justice.
@lesyeuxdelisa6556 Yes, but the OP stated it's a Titan instead of a GOD. They were at war with the Titans, right, that's why the GODs were in charge because they took Olympus from the Titan?
@@distinguishedallureproduct879Also in this version I believe there was like a smaller animatic/some form of official confirmation from Jorge that Helios complained to Zeus and threatened the drag the sun to the underworld if Odysseus and his crew were not punished.
Love seeing your Epic the Musical reactions!
As for the songs and questions! In 'Suffering' the siren told Odysseus that the only way to avoid Poseidon would be going through Scylla's, a six-headed monster, lair. Knowing the 'cost' going through the lair instead of the open sea, our captain decides to take it, asking Eury to light up six torches (six sacrifices).
Song Two is fun musically because the guitar is given to Eury as a sign of him try to usurp Ody in this moment. As for the violin during this part, I'd have to go back and see if you've discovered this already, for now though I'll just say keep that the violin in mind and the choir right after Eury stabs the cow.
And lastly, many (myself included) thought of Apollo as the sun god, but this one is referring to the titan god, Helios, the personification of the Sun instead. In the story he couldn't go down to punish them as the literal Sun coming down to Earth would be bad, hence why a certain 'other' god goes in his stead.
Can't wait to watch your reactions and analysis of the next sagas!
Eurylochus has been the singer that you've criticized most often so I really appreciate you noticing just how great of a job he did in Mutiny.
People miss that his understand a tad monotone delivery is part of his characterisation, he is the straight man of the musical, the stoic, dutiful, pragmatic contrast to polites bright and playful naivity and odys absolut drama. He is not supposed to shine, he is supposed to be odys Lieutenant, his suport, his grounding so ody does not compleatly flies of the handle, but given ody told the godess of wisdom and strategy to piss of cause she implied she knew better the him, he sure as hell was not willing to take his brothers help either . . .makes sense that he starts to shine, when he actualy steps out of odys shade
Also, when the electric guitar kicks in that is eurylochus stealing odys instrument according to jay.
nicee i didn't know that
@zuhoist yeh, he did a video called rambling about eurylochus.
28:28 … So… Is no one going to say it… alright. THATS WHAT SHE SAID!
Love the attention to detail showing all 6 flames in Scylla’s eyes showing what she’s after
13:44 the sirens told Ody that going through Scylla's lair is the only way he can avoid Poseidon (who will almost certainly kill him before he can reach home).
14:04 for both EPIC & Lore the reason is because to avoid Poseidon. But in Lore wise there were 2 different choices.
1: Go through Scylla and lose some men
2: Go through a different path, and it’s either ALL survive or NONE.
So Odysseus went Scylla.
Jorge Decided to only mention Scylla’s Way.
Yeah technically they had 3 choices past Scylla, past Charybdis, or open water(Poseidon), in the original myth they tried to thread the needle but strayed to close and scylla got 6
So Poseidon wouldn’t follow. They are still on the run and the cost of Scylla is only 6 men vs his whole crew and his own life if he caught them.
Also it’s Helios the sun god.
Apollo is often mistaken as he is more know due to being one of the few to share a name in both Greek and Roman mythology. Helios became Sol.
Apollo is the god of archery, music, light, and a few more.
Helios is the "sun god". Apollo is the "god of the sun" and light.
the sun god is actually helios
You are correct, the harmonies in the second half of Scylla's chorus are synthesized, Jorge really like the vocal effect that it gave with synthesized harmonies and he has a whole BHS video about it
Sorry if it's already been commented, but the reason Scylla's harmonies are all a bit synthy/electronic is because they're just the Scylla vocal line pitch shifted around to create an unnatural sound :)
When she says, "We must do what it takes to survive!", I notice a small detail in the animation. She just falls backwards into the water.
One thing I love about the big sword, is that I find it pretty believable. Specifically because Jorge posted a video featuring him and Eury's VA where the dude was swinging a massive branch as a sword for their "sword fight" on a beach set to that part of the song.
Once again your reactions are amazing! I'm going to refer to Gigi's Scylla as "grudge girl" from now on 😂
And from what I remember, this version of a mutiny never happened. This was creative liberty that Jay took. In the original Odyssey, I believe they actually ended up stumbling across Helios' island after Scylla (the sun god is Helios not Apollo. Apollo's more originally associated with poetry, music, health and disease, and archery) and the crew convinces Odysseus to stop there for rest. He agrees but tells them to not kill any of the cows on the island.
However, a storm ends up trapping them there for I think like a month(?) and they are running low on food. And Odysseus was sleeping but woke up to the crew having killed several of the cows, hence a mutiny since they went against their captain and king's word. And this naturally pisses of Helios. Who goes to Zeus and tells him that if he doesn't handle the situation, he will go down and light up the Underworld, casting the earth in darkness.
So yeah! I'm pretty sure that's what happened! If anyone has more insight or corrections, feel free to say something! This is just what I remember
To be fair, Eury in the original epic was kinda undermining Ody for most of the journey. It was a protracted, quiet mutiny. Luck Runs Out was more on-brand for the literary Eury than Mutiny. He was also a little bit of a nepo hire, given that he was Ody's brother in law.
Yesss! I've been waiting! I love all the side eyes towards Scylla as he figures out what kind of monster she is.
your ability to compartmentalize whats going on in order to appreciate the singing really is amazing
I'm not sure if you noticed, but during the six Scylla verses where she gobbles up the crew, you can hear the crew members being eaten screaming in the background.
Helios is the god of the sun, Apollo helps him by moving the sun across the sky with his chariot
by the way god of sun is Helios Apollo is god of sunlight as far as I know
Background information: When they attack the cow he goes to zeus and says "B***! Either you go ther and punish him for his crime against me or I swear I will start living at underground and you can see the sun in your dreams!"
Zeus is like "ok..."
It’s neat that when Eurylochus is trying to be upfront with his emotions he goes into a higher register. Someplace he’s not exactly comfortable. We see this on Circe’s isle. Just before he’s told to go search the island and he immediately drops back down into his regular range.
Based on something mentioned in a song in the next saga, I did the math, and Odysseus's luck ran out three years after "Luck Runs Out".
So, am I the only one who died when he called Zeus "Thunder Daddy"? I mean, that not only sums up Zeus's view of women, but the Neal's animantic really drives it home XD
I'm a Hellenic Pagan. Apollo is _not_ the sun god. He wasn't associated with light or the sun until much later in Greece. Helios is the god of the sun.
That violin in mutiny is the danger motif, always there before some sort of danger is ahead, though it can be in different instruments or sung, like the choral one yiu noticed towards the end.
by the way, u can u hear this one motif that repeats often during dangerous moments, because its called a “danger motif” something that jay made to indicate danger is nearby or is right there
Peter love your analysis of the musical!
In mutiny ,the violin motif/phrase on top of the Ody electric guitar is called the Danger motif. This is present in many diff forms (chord or arpegio) but in Mutiny it is its simplest form. Its the two decending notes going for 8 bars after Eurylichus says "then you've forced my hand"
Its also introduced in the very first song.
I feel so bad for Hades, because while he doesn't ever appear in _The Odyssey_ after Odysseus's men kill the cattle, Helios demands Zeus o something about it, and threatens to BRING THE SUN TO THE UNDERWORLD. Hades would probably be like, "WTF did I do?!" 😂
From what I remember in OG Odyssey by Homer, going through Scylla and Charybdis was a route mapped out by Circe. However in epic, it’s the Sirens who gave the tip to Ody that Poseidon won’t reach him there because that effectively is Scylla’s domain because apparently even he is terrified of Scylla.
Also, this was mentioned in one of Jorge’s tiktoks, but the progression of Scylla and Puppeteer for both Scylla and Circe’s themes are similar but with different instruments to show their connection. This is a reference to one story where it’s said that Circe has turned Scylla into a monster because in “There Are Other Ways” she sings “I have been in love once before” referencing the story where Circe feared that the man she loved would be bewitched by Scylla’s beauty (who’s a nymph in that particular story, but she’s already a monster in some other texts I think) thus turning her into a monster.
Also for Mutiny, the OG Odyssey didn’t have a mutiny, but they did end up on Thrinacia (Helios’ Island) and actually, it was Eurylochus who suggested to sacrifice the golden cows. However, Odysseus advised against this because in the OG story, Tiresias the prophet in the Underworld, advised them to not hurt Helios’ cows. However they needed to find some way to sacrifice something to get off the island because that was the culture at the time you needed to sacrifice something order to set sail. That, and they were also starving because rations they got from Circe were running low. So, Eurylochus sacrifices the cow, Helios gets angry and threatens Zeus to make the sun shine in the underworld if they’re not punished, they get on the boat, thunder strikes and Odysseus is left floating on a few pieces, washed back to Charybdis before paddling away as hard as he can and waking up 9 days later on Calypso’s island.
gotta love getting in the water!!
I just watched 8 hours of your reactions in 24 hours (the supercut was great while I was working) and I am HOOKED! So glad I found you :)
The violin that is super present in the musical is playing the "danger motif," not always a violin but if you look out for the melody you pointed out its basically everywhere and signifies that something bad is coming.
One thing I just noticed: that violin you mentioned in Mutiny ( 21:42 ) creates the same melody as in the very first song of the musical The Horse and the Infant after he says "attack" until Zeus appears.
Also, the cows are Helios' "pets", not Apollo's :)
Edit: I just noticed the violin is a reoccurring motiv, you can also hear it in Warrior of the Mind when Ody is saying "show yourself" until Athena appears. I will be on the lookout for more lmao
26:00 the Sun God is Helios. Jorge confirmed it. There are multiple sun and moon deities in the Greco/Roman mythology.
"Tremolo" is the in-and-out wobble effect on the "hello" if I'm not mistaken. It's the vocal equivalent to the guitar Boulevard of Broken Dreams.
the eirie voice of Scylla is probably referring to Scylla originally being one of Circe's nymphs, that's also why Sclla is represented b strings when she appears. Interesting bit of lore if you wanna check it out :) love, magic, jealousy fine greek mythology!
Mythology wise, Scylla would be a beautiful nymph from the waist up and, instead of a lower body, she has six giant serpents with wolf/dog heads... but I LOVE the idea of the moray eels.
As for why they did have to go through her cave: the sirens mentioned it was to leave Poseidon's behind since even him is afraid of Scylla.
As mentioned this was his "only" way home that most of his men can survive. In this strait there are 2 monsters actually, one is Scylla which he sacrificed 6 men (1 for each head) to pass and the other is Charybdis which can destroy the whole boat with its whirlpools. Charybdis is literally in here just not that noticeable.
Oh, and history on Scylla, she used to be one of Circe's nymphs until she was harassed by Poseidon and he turned her into that monster for giving him the cold shoulder. He wont go near there because of that. It is why Circe was willing to help Ody at the Poseidon name drop and she actually explained about some of the challenges he'd face.
Ody never moved the entire time, he knew he was safe standing there.
has no one noticed that in that island part, when Eurylochus sings it's the same notes and progression like when Ody first talks to Zeus
I'm not sure if there are old visual depiction of sylla, but she used to be a water nymph before being cursed into a monster. As far as I know classical descriptions were that she looked like a beautiful woman on top, and the bottom had 6 monstrous dog heads and she was giant. (Her sister was also cursed and became a monster known as Caribdys) - sorry about any spelling errors hahaha
Jorge has a TikTok vid about how he did the layering for Scylla’s voice. After you finish Epic an interview/talk with Jorge would be amazing
Go off king process no lyrics😅. Six torches, six heads, six of our friends. But yeah, I really do love your analyses, I've been binging them.
My favorite animatic of this song is definitely the one done by VirusAP. Scylla actually CAN get creepier than this.
Scylla and Charybdis were two women cursed to be monsters. Scylla with her six heads picked soldiers from the deck until the ship was clean. Odysseus filled all of her mouths at once with the torchbearers, therefore clearing a way to escape.
The usual deal is that sailors have to choose between going by Scylla or her sister- two choises both leading to cetrain death. A rock or a hard place, plague or cholera, Scylla or Charybdis
Idk if anyone else has mentioned it plainly, but the 6 sacrifices were due to the 6 torches Odysseus requested to be lit. Ody knew beforehand the sacrifices that "needed" to be made for safe passage and jus got thru it like a disassociated monster (pobrecito)
Ok in the EPIC story he had to go through the Scylla’s lair to avoid Poseidon’s wrath.
It’s the same way in the Odyssey but there is an extra detail. Back when Odysseus was repairing his ship for his journey to the Underworld, Circe warned Odysseus there were only two ways to get home without facing Poseidon’s wrath. Either through Scylla or through Charybdis.
Scylla requires a sacrifice of 6 men because Scylla’s 6 heads will eat those 6 men. If you sail too slow Scylla will eat 6 more men. The other way is Charybdis, she is this monster that creates whirlpools. Sucking up all the ocean and spitting it back up. However you are in high risk of losing the ship.
Scylla is seen as the lesser of two evils. Do you want to gamble your men or ship? Odysseus chose his men as the damage would’ve been lessen if he gone through Charybdis.
In mythology Scylla and Charybdis were one of two entrances to the sea of monsters. If you try to go around them they just respawn in front of you. The other entrance is the wailing rocks but they don’t really matter in this context. I don’t know if Epic is following that specific mythology because the two monsters are separated here.
The sun god they were talking about in mutiny is actually Helios, and the reason it gets dark after they stabbed a cattle (If I'm remembering correctly) is because Helios threatened Zeus and said he'd move the sun to the underworld to light that up and leave the rest in darkness if he didn't get retribution
Wanna mention the cool lyric changes in mutiny; Here we hear "You relied on wit, and then we died on it" as opposed to the original "You rely on wit and people die on it" and to beginf with Ody says "I need to get home" before turning it around to maybe have a better chance to persuade the crew with "We can get home"
"why didn't Odysseus tell him the cows were immortal beforehand?"
Ody didn't know the cows were immortal until Eurylochus tried and failed to kill one. Some animatics show the cow bleeding gold when Eurylochus cuts into it, so when Ody sees that their blood is the ichor of the gods he puts two and two together.
In the live stream, after Eurylochus slits the cow's throat, text on screen said Odysseus escaped his restraints. If he was able to get out of his restraints, WHY DIDN'T HE DO THAT LIKE THREE MINUTES SOONER?!
I’m loving your reactions/analysis!
As told to Odysseus by the siren, Scylla's lair was the one route back to Ithica where Poseidon wouldn't be looking for him. However, as he said in reply, "Scylla has a cost". No one passes through her lair unscathed. You either feed her six heads, or she sinks your ship and eats everyone at her leisure. Hence the torches. Six torches to mark out six sacrifices. In the Odyssey, it's actually a choice between passing near Scylla or another monster named Charybdis, and it's Circe who advises him that his ship won't survive the passage near Charybdis, so he should sacrifice six men to Scylla to save the rest.
In the original myth, everyone knew not to kill the cows, but after a month trapped on the island, eurylochus caves to hunger
Reasons to go through Scylla's cave: 1. Poseidon doesn't fuck with Scylla. Even he gives her her space. So he's not there to sink their ship. 2. Her sister, Charybdis, is on the other side of her, and would've killed Everyone instead of just Six people.
By “Sun god” they mean Helios who is literally the Sun. Apollo is like a minor sun god but mostly the god of prophecies and music.
In the odyssey Eurylocus is fully aware that the cows belong to helios and what the consequences may be, but he and the crew are on the brink of starvation and he chooses to appeal to helios and kill the cows anyway with the assumption that they'll either be spared or die a faster, less painless, and more honorable death than they would slowly starving. If they survive, they'll build a temple to helios, but if they die they won't suffer any longer
Odysseus DID know what would happen. It's no coincidence he had six torches lit up right before they encountered a monster with six heads.
So technically Odysseus and his crew land on the island of Helios, who was the Greek sun god before Roman synchrotism started to bleed over and Apollo overtook his job (just as Artemis did with Selene). He is still related to Zeus, but Helios is his cousin rather than his son.
We have all been waiting for your listen to this! Lol
People try to twist the Circe situation against Eurylochus to frame him as a hypocrite. Yes, he wanted to flee, leaving the men who got turned into pigs, but that was just a small scouting party, a majority stayed with Odysseus. Eurylochus's concern has always been the crew, so when he saw the men turn into pigs, odds are he'd think they're as good as dead, so he wanted to save those that were left.
Yeah but their current situation was worse you have open water=Poseidon and the path next too Scylla=Charybdis, so Odysseus picked the option of least possible deaths
I recommend checking out more Scylla animatics-everyone has interpreted it really differently, and it’s so cool to see! (My fave is by VirusAP)
During Scylla, you can hear all 6 sailors screaming when gobbled
Scylla in mythology has 6 heads hence 6 torches for 6 men and her chorus/ multiple voices. Scylla was a nymph turned into a monster by Circi out of jealousy.
An interesting thing about the song "Scylla" is the number 6.
6 torches
6 heads
6 men sacrificed
And 6 screams, one each either with or after each Scylla line
It's REALLY freaky when you think about it!
Also, the person who stabbed Ody was a side character named Perimedes
The sun god in EPIC is actually Helios, not Apollo. He is a sun god, but not the sun god
And congrats on getting Zues in Stories From Styx! I can't wait to see it!
I've been edging myself trying to save these two reactions and do the whole thunder saga in one go because we are almost finally at THUNDER BRINGER but I couldn't do it so now it gotta wait for the climax 😩
Peter: "I dunno what kind of monster Scylla is."
Me with the illustraitor dad who's drawn her at least twice: "Hehehe... Aw this is gonna be good 😈"
(Yes, I already saw Gigi's animatic, awesome design with this interpretation!)
Basically in the original Ody had to pick between Scylla and Charybdis. Scylla being a sea nymph cursed into a six headed Hydra and Charydbis is a huge mouth of teeth that creates whirlpools. Ody picked Scylla as the whirlpools would potentially take out an entire ship while they just needed to fight off Scylla and evade her.
In the original Odyssey, Skylla (or Scylla in English) was not in a cave. They were passing through a straight, often associated with the Strait of Messina between Sicily and Italy. (Much of the Odyssey takes place around North Africa and Italy... bro got REALLY lost.) Odysseus faced a choice: go straight ahead and meet Charybdis the whirlpool, or hug the edge of the cliff and meet Scylla hiding in her cave. With Charybdis, he might be able to make it and save 100% of the crew, or he could get sucked in and lose the entire crew. With Scylla, he would definitely succeed in getting his ship through the strait, but he would definitely lose 6 men to her.
To this day, scenarios like this are used in officer training school. It's called "acceptable losses," and when the casualties involve civilians it's known nowadays as "collateral damage." It is one of the more mentally brutal tests of a military leader's fortitude.
27:58 “…his sword keeps getting bigger…”
Yeah the giant anime sword for Eurylochus is canon, Jorge has it as part of his design for Eury. 😂
As a low brass musician of 30+ years, I really appreciate how you catch the bass lines in this musical. Bass musicians joke that we play some of the most boring parts in the orchestra, but without us the violins are just rainbow sprinkles with no cake. That rising bass line leading up to the thunder crack is a great example. So thank you.
Of course! Big fan of brass
Luke Holt (Zeus' VA) is actually NOT a bass, he's a tenor! He just has incredible vocal control.