Codex Genestealer Cults 10th Edition - Full Rules Review
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ค. 2024
- Let's talk through the new detachments and datasheets for the children of the Four Armed Emperor!
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0:00 Intro
1:02 Contents
2:18 Cult Ambush
6:00 Brood Brothers Rule Removal
6:58 Detachments
8:20 Xenocreed Congregation
9:44 Xenocreed Congregation - stratagems
14:06 Xenocreed Congregation - Enhancements
16:46 Outlander Claw
17:38 Outlander Claw - Stratagems
21:10 Outlander Claw - Enhancements
23:55 Biosanctic Broodsurge
24:56 Biosanctic Broodsurge - Stratagems
29:33 Biosanctic Broodsurge - Enhancements
32:08 Brood Brother Auxilia
34:32 Brood Brother Auxilia - Stratagems
39:02 Brood Brother Auxilia - Enhancements
41:19 Host of Asenscion
42:22 Host of Asenscion - Stratagems
47:49 Host of Asenscion - Enhancements
50:48 Detachments Thoughts
51:46 Datasheets Gained
53:23 Points Page
54:26 Datasheet Themes
55:36 Benefictus
57:57 Infantry Units
1:08:59 Atalan Jackals
1:10:40 Vehicle Units
1:14:53 Characters
1:32:53 Closing Thoughts
1:34:41 Outro - เกม
CORRECTIONS PLEASE READ: (apologies, a few errors slipped by me in this one, GW changed more than they normally do with some of the datasheets)
- ACHILLES RIDGERUNNER actually got a BIG buff that I missed, the AP debuff now applies to the end of the TURN so can help melee. They seem auto-include for shooting AND melee armies now!
- NEOPHYTES can can't double up on heavy/special weapons within each ten models. So now it's likely 2x Seismic, 2x Mining Laser, 2x GL and 2x Flamer/Webber as an 'optimal' 20-man squad. Still plenty of shooting but unfortunately less focused.
- GOLIATH TRUCK now firing deck 6 (down from 10)
- ATALAN JACKALS can now only take two power weapons per five (previously they all could have them, I guess this ties in with the kit)
- Having a character attached to METAMORPHS that doesn't have an autopistol will turn off the auto-6" broodsurge as it's dependent on EVERY model having an autopistol at the game's start.
Thanks to all those who pointed them out!
Huh. The Ridgerunner buff is very impactful. Let’s just hope gw is reasonable with the points costs so the army is viable
Goliath truck is down from firing deck 12 to 6 !?!?!
@@seaturtleslastname8286 that’s kinda dumb. It looses its role when the rock grinder has the same ability and scary melee & guns
RAW you can't give the metamorphs their banner if you want the flat 6" brood surge too which is silly imo.
Yeah RR is now auto include for every list imo, at least 2 . Don't count out Neos with stubbers, they math hammer well against 20 boyz.
“People are only using seismic cannons let’s nerf mining lasers” looking ah codex
Gotta make sure the range is sufficiently culled of all meaningful anti-tank so they can push the new $45 dollar character.
@@Lens-ib3nt which no one in the world will bring, if it's ACTUALLY the listed ppm.
Admech-style point decreases inbound - the bald tide rises!
I do feel it fits the stealers better to be a hoard tho
I was already fielding 120 models. I don't need to field more. And they hit like limp noodles now. I'm a bit let down by this.
@@marcbenson1969 now itll be 120 and more vehicles and melee
@@marcbenson1969If GSC was hitting like a limp noodle for you, you were playing it wrong (or stuck playing only a handful of weird statchecks like C'Tan)
Index GSC hit HARD
It's already a horde. Now it's gonna be Warhammer fantasy skaven levels
Welcome back to the bottom of the power spectrum brothers - Tyranid player
So that what is an ascension to star gods our leaders were talking about looks like
😂😂😂
This is the most inane set of rules changes and nerfs since admech. GSC wasn’t even that powerful of an army and now we apparently aren’t allowed to kill anything above T10 anymore? Most of these changes are side grades at best
This has always been one of the hardest armies to play and GW still has to stamp it into the ground
The Brood Brothers treatment reminds me of Oath of Moment and Doctrines from Index to Codex for Space Marines. I offer my sympathies to GSC players.
Without Brood Brothers and Split data sheets we only have about 8 or 9 non-character units
10th Edition 40k feels similar to when Destiny 2 tried to introduce 'sunsetting' to that game's gear. Destiny's devs argued they *had* to take stuff away from players to prevent unsustainable power creep, and swore that it was unrelated to their desire to sell more copies of their DLC or other microtransactions.
That strategy backfired on them almost immediately, as the game quickly started hitting record-low player counts, and they reversed their decision in less than 2 seasons. The problem is that Games Workshop can't really reverse the 'bad' 10th Edition codexes quickly/easily, as we're still waiting for their AdMech rework later this year.
Edit: Perhaps a bigger problem is that this policy is only being applied to half the 10th Edition codex releases, rather than at least being a gradual weakening of *every* army over the course of 10th Edition
To me, it looks like GW have two teams working on the codex's.
One that know what they are doing (Ork, Necrons and Sisters) and how to make people want to play the army.
And one team, that is people who do not play the game, do not know the lore, and are only following the guide of removing rules in 10th (Mechanicus, Curstodies and Genstealers).
Make me hope we get the good team, when they finnaly get to Votann.
The gsc codex and stodes codex were written most likely when they were dominating the meta and the ork and sisters ones were written when they were near the bottom.
@@superkamigoru That would explain how one is strong, and the other weak, but it does not explain how all the bad codex's have rules that does not work.
Both Mechanicus and custodies, had rules that did not work with more than half the army. It was just bad game mechanics.
So, unless Gw know one team is incompetent, and they give the "strong" armies to them to break them, that would not explain it.
Also, orks where never weak. They where not strong, or fun, but not weak.
And "I think" they got the most fun in a good way codex. That was not to overpowered, and will probably be balanced by a 1 point increase on ork models.
Considering that almost everyone that buy from GW dont even play the game why they should care?
I don’t think there’s any kind of ‘sell more models’ conspiracy. That implies a level of competence that they just don’t have.
I am amazed that almost all the units were nerfed even the bad ones! I was expecting the demo charge nerf but I didn't expect that wholescale nerf...
It feels like the codex was written when we were doing 60% win rates. That was only because people were taking half their Amy as tanks and monsters and the other half as anti tank and monster. Since s12 attack do shit all to us, we were a good counter. But now things are different in the game and we are still getting punished for stuff from a year ago.
Considering that all battleline units lost 16% chance to come back (in addition to all their other, stat-line nerfs), you sure would hope their points would go down by at least 16%.
But, considering the Tyranid codex was released with nerfs AND a 10% points INCREASE to most units (which have sloooooowly been rolled back over the subsequent months)... I wouldn't hold my breath.
What if a battleshocked unit could not remove markers? That would at least give you some options for controling when and where, and give battleshock a bit more impact on the battle.
All of this is coded for a points decrease. GSC have been waaaaay more 'elite' than they used to be due to how crazy our datasheets have been. This reads as more of a return to form so that the units can be at a points cost that more reflects what the army should be
Well, battleline needs to get cheaper sure, but so do other units. A huge problem with the index was battleline were already better than virtually anything else even before considering that bonus
Bikes, metamorphs, and abberents all need points reductions as well. Probably trucks, rockgrinders, and the patriarch too
@@weelock721 In 8th edition, the GSC were far, far better at melee than they are now. In 9th, they were far, far better at shooting than they are now. In 10th, they were Imperial Guard, but in place of tanks, unit options, orders, and imperial ally support - they got 'comes back maybe' that then got nerfed super hard.
Now, it's been nerfed even harder, while their weapons, stats, and abilities have also been nerfed. They're a worse version of the non-armored Imperial Guard. Are the Imperial Guard 'too elite'?
In any event, the whole defense centers on massive points drops. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. They probably won't, if the Nid codex was any indication. GSC is also an insanely expensive army to buy, so asking new players to tack on another 25-40% more cash to make up for how feeble everything is? Quite a scheme.
@@weelock721probably our points will go up
As one of the 50 GSC players world wide I feel like I have a decent insight into how intense ( or not) these changes are. Outside of the oh so precious 4+ FNP being ripped away from my aberrants (and them just being butchered overall) :( I will say the worst part of this codex is that we lost a lot of hitting power, specifically Blasting charges, mining lasers and seismic canons.
It's going to be really difficult for us to punch up now, but they have given us ways to be aggressive with cult ambush (finally!), mining tools strength got brutalized but the AP and damage remains and being able to bring 3 of them is going to be really nice and make them viable for infantry mulching (although I don't understand why they had to bring the Abbys power hammers down by 1). I get it we shouldn't really have elite units... and these changes and detachments feel more aligned with the actual GSC theme. We;re meant to be the under dogs and a hoard but I'm not singing the blues yet and our codex is still better than AdMech (and I say that as an AdMech player...yes, I do hate myself sometimes).
I had to rewind it to hear this tongue twister again, "Big headed Brain-Boy from the Biosanctic Broodsurge Battleforce Box"
Well GSC is now useless. Those nerfs will see to it they place in the 30% range at the next few tourneys. I mean we needed brood brothers before to fill out a few specific roles like AT but now they're limited severely, and our best units are entirely broken.
Acolytes - nerfed
Metamorphs - nerfed
Abberants - HEAVILY nerfed.
Yup, we're fucked. Thanks GW.
They are already in the 30s for both last weekend and for the past 5 weeks
I'd also like to add
Rockgrinder (for literally no reason at all) - NERFED
There's this thing called points.
@@editor2766 points don't make up for bad datasheets and a lack of anti-Tank
@@jaybowler3121 the data sheets aren't bad if they are pointed correctly. Plus they might have a proper feel now and not feel like more destructive scions
@@editor2766 As a Tyranid player, let me tell you, points mean sweet fuck all. You can have all the point decreases you want, but if your datasheets are still bad you're fucked, point decreases are all we've had since getting our codex and we're still as shit as ever
So what does GSC have now, that can somewhat effectively deal with Terminator style units(T5 or better, 3W per model)? Heavy Mining Lasers? Achilles Missile Launcher?
Aberrants are now damage 2 rather than 3. Demolition Charges have fewer attacks and no longer wounds on a 2+. Mining Lasers now wound on a 3+(against T6 Meganobz or Gravis Armour) rather than 2+. Seismic Cannons now have far less volume fire.
Seems to me that there will be a major shift into taking as many vehicles as possible.
While the codex might get some point decreases for various infantry units, I doubt we will see the same for the characters. Meaning you might have characters that take up 30-50% of a unit's total cost(and they can not return). Furthermore, the buffs they provide the unit now has less of an impact, as the overall performance of the units have decreased.
You cant kill someone with only 1 phase of shooting or melee and now its impossible to play? Lol
@@mtrunkello You have it the wrong way around. Every army out there can wipe out several of the GSC units in a single turn of shooting/fighting, but GSC no longer has the means to do the same back.
The issue is not that you cant kill "anything" in just one phase of shooting or melee, but for a faction that has no staying power on the board, you are relying on at least doing something impactful while on the board.
Keeping up pressure, taking out key targets with one-use weaponry. Most of those options have been greatly diminished.
To sum up:
Battleline units no longer get a +1 to their Cult Ambush roll, which has decreased the durability of them by roughly 30% compared to before.
Aberrants have lost 30-40% of their damage(S8 Dam3 to S7 Dam2), as well as a bit of their durability(4+ FNP to 5+ FNP).
Neophyte Hybrids have to take mixed weapons now(they can no longer take 4 Seismic Cannons or 4 Mining Lasers. Same for their special weapons. Only 2 of each weapon), and the heavy weapons have been nerfed(S12 to S10 for Mining Lasers, A4 down to A2 for Seismic Cannons, both still have BS5+). Overall, that is also 30-40% damage loss.
Demolition Charges(Acolyte Hybrids, Goliath Trucks, Goliath Rockgrinder, Reductus Saboteur) have changed from AD6+3 S12 to AD6 S9, which is roughly a 50% decrease in damage.
Acolyte Hybrids have been split into 2. The melee version(no hand flamers) get a total of 6 Heavy Mining Tools(used to be 4), but Strength has been reduced from 10 to 5.
Goliath Trucks now have Firing Deck 6 instead of 12.
Basically, their ability to deal with Elite units and heavy vehicles/monsters have been greatly reduced, while also having a harder time remaining on the board.
They are going to have to rely on vehicles for a bit of firepower. Vehicles, which are very vulnerable and easy to score points on(T10 and W10 at best). They also have an overreliance on characters, another target for easy VP.
Demo charges still do the job. Rerolling wound rolls and wounding on 3s with D6 shots and blast is still a pretty tasty profile into termies. And now we're damage 3. Is it as good as the extra 3 shots oer demo and wounding on 2s before? No. But they're sure to get cheaper now too
@@rickrivers2021 Terminators use Armour of Contempt, then only 1/3 of the wounds go through(2+ sv vs AP-1).
Each model requires 2 such wounds to die(it is still damage 2. It is the Heavy Mining Tool that is damage 3).
To kill a 10 man Terminator Block, you need 20 wounds to go through the armor. That means about 60 wounds needs to be applied.
If you roll really, really hot(max), you can get 44 Attacks from Demolition Charges (4(d6+5)), and roughly half of your attacks will fail to hit on average(BS5+, and with a reroll to hit, that about averages to around half).
If we say that everything hits, you still need to roll 16 6s with 44 dice to reach roughly 60 wounds total.
Basically, that is impossible.
And that was the old version. The new one has fewer attacks and worse chance to wound.
@fendelphi oh yeah, the damage 2 vs damage 3 was my mistake and is a big difference
As far as armor of contempt though, that's what you bring ridgerunners for
A small but important change not mentioned is that the ridgerunner debuff now applies for the whole turn, not just the phase, making it much better for taking in your melee cults.
One buff to counteract the multitude of nerfs.
Seems that GSC will rely a lot on their vehicles. Heavy Mining Lasers for Anti-Tank and Anti-Elite(since both Demo Charges and regular Mining Lasers are far less efficient at that now) and Ridgerunner's special rule to increase the AP potency of your army.
Really? Now that is a nice change. We will probably rely more on ridgerunner and rockgrinder for tougher things
@@Dovakhin94 As a firm believer in Ridgerunner and Rockgrinder supremacy, fuck yeah. I'll be doing that line of copium for a while.
Ah thanks for that correction, just checked and that's totally right. Will post in in a correction above. That's a genuinely solid boost, seems like they'll likely be auto include regardless of detachment even if playing full melee!
A nice example of self-fullfilling prophesy:
GW: Not many play GSC, a hush-.hush nerf job is enough
PLAYERS: WTF, GW, Why play this? I go Army X, is much better.
GW: see, we make a cool new codex, and unthankful players play it even less.
neophytes did not just lose a third of their damage, they lost two thirds of their damage, getting just 2 bad lascanons in return.
a full squad of what you were usually taking went from 24 seismic shots to 8! since you can only take two now, and then have to take two mininlasers which you almost never wanted even before.
Now that you have them you also always want to split fire or have really inefficent firepower to the target you actually want to kill.
Exactly! People are over looking this. You can't even boost the damage anymore, since lethal hits are useless on mining lasers and both hit rerolls and lethal hits don't work on flamers/webbers.
Detachments are at best a neat idea, and they’re focusing the whole game around them. Really getting sick of making units suck outside of specific detachments, and every army getting at least like 4 unplayable detachments.
Compare this to the sisters codex. Everything got buffed and we got AMAZING detachments. Sure my 2200pts army will probably end up being 2500pts, but I will take that over nerfs dropping an army to below 2k. I too two russes, so I only had about 1,500pts of GSC to start with.
We should not be seeing nerfs to datasheets in any of these codexes. The switch from 9th to 10th was their chance to tone down all the insane power levels. Nothing should be getting nerfed in a codex. If other armies struggle to compete buff them.
yeah but see, if they make things better, then they'll have to be worth more points, and if they're worth more points, that doesn't encourage you to buy more, does it?
@@jadeo2228 sad but likely true. My 2k GSC army became 1500 ish after 10th. Now post codex it'll probably be closer to 1200. Guess I only play 1200 point games now.
Ad Mech might suck. But they at least have vehicles we can't reliably kill. When your army struggles to now reliably kill a Rhino there are some problems. Yet alone if you are fighting something like mechanized Guard or Knights.
That was speedy, great job
Thanks for the analysis
My big issue with the army rule is that it conflicts with the rest of the army plan. The battle line units are fairly weak on there own and only start to become threats with leaders/enhancements/starts. When you run the math hammer Neophytes do about the quarter of the damage they would do with leaders/enhancements/strats. So you have to make a 50/50 at best role, protect the blib, and survive your oppents shooting and fight phase to get back a crippled unit.
NGL I'm still a bit confused on why they chose to seperate the Acolytes into two seperate datasheets. Specifically why tf have the pistols and hand flamers been seperated? Both are melee focused and want to be up close and hand flamers would always be my first choice - so its what like, 90% of my standard Acolyte models have.
Doesn't feel great to have models that were always legally outfitted now be proxies for different wargear options by an arbitrary change that came out of nowhere.
FAR from my biggest complaint for this very underwhelming codex but its really annoyed me because of all the changes, this seems the least justifiable and most random.
Money
They have different special rules and will probably have 2 different point costs.
@@fendelphi Still dont see why that makes seperating the pistol options necessary considering the different wargear options you can choose on either "new" datasheet replaces your firearm. As with all 10th units, its mostly abilities and the optimal wargear options that determine their points cost. Its unnecessary to separate the basic wargear options like this.
@@thesusman7544 Most official tournaments enforce WYSIWYG (unless thats changed recently) so yeah this feels like the right answer - as usual with GW. Spend half a year with free wargear options so you obviously model on the more interesting choices then "Oops not legal anymore, guess you need to buy more boxes in order to use some of the models you built."
@@kronksstronkstonks6360 Let us say that one datasheet ends up costing 80 pts(for 5) or 160 pts(for 10), and the other 70(for 5) or 140 pts(for 10).
One is specialized in dealing close range, ranged damage, the other for breaking down vehicles in melee.
One of them gets a damage buff as an ability, the other gets the option for generating Command Points.
This gives each datasheet a distinct style.
And because both are battleline, you can take a total of 12 units of Acolyte Hybrids, if you were so inclined.
So I work and have spent quite a bit od spare time making an army. Then my efforts get shafted, again. Thanks GW.
Transport is now Firing deck 6
Bikes are only 2 power weapons per 5
Taking an icon or most Chars turns off metamorph's auto 6 move.
Big thank you for the corrections, apologies for the misses there! I'll add them to the pinned comment above.
I thought the Kelermorph got the ability to shoot the target that got too close to him, potentially battle shocking them in your opponent's movement phase? Alongside him being able to jump back
I think you've misjudged the Jackal detachment. It's not looking for damage from it's Jackals, it's a pure objective-movement style detachment and looks legitimately good, although not many people enjoy that play style. Jackal Jail will definitely be a thing that some people love to play though.
The Brood Brothers kill team kit is designed as an addon to the Cadian sprues right?
I assumed we could build them using cadian weapons and not just all the special wargear that a kill team would generally use.
Meth is cheaper, and likely funner at this point.
Question for my GSC brothers and sister. Can put units from Cult Ambush on the board turn 1? Units in Cult Ambush puts count as being in Reserve and since in match play you can't come in from reserves turn 1, it seems the blips will just sit until opponent's turn 2 movement phase. Note: The am looking at the book page from a different youtubers review for the Cult Ambush rule.
Theoretically Cult Ambush would supercede the normal reserves restrictions (I believe since army rules overrule general rules iirc) but its (edit: ALMOST genuinely impossible) to have a unit be in cult ambush by your enemies first turn so either you're misunderstanding Cult Ambush or I'm misunderstanding your question.
Cult Ambush markers are placed when one of your units dies and you roll 5+ (4+ on turn 1-2). Then in your opponents next movement phase one unit in cult ambush can return to the board per Cult Ambush Marker.
The only way for a unit to theoretically return in turn 1 is if you get first turn and somehow have an entire unit die before your opponent has taken a single turn, then succeeded on a 50/50 roll then put your cult ambush marker too far for any vehicles etc to interfere with after movement - which isn't much further than your deployment line excluding opppsing scouts/infiltrators.
So yes, technically it could happen i guess, if you infiltrate a 5 man acolyte squad in front of a unit holding hand flamers and your opponent overwatches them, but you should really never be in a situation where you have an entire unit due before your opponents first turn.
@@kronksstronkstonks6360 while I think that 99% of the time you're right and this won't come up, an exception to this could be if you had an infiltrating unit (like purestrains) getting a charge turn 1 to lock up an enemy (which can definitely happen with advance and charge on them and bonuses from biosantic) and your rolls to save go very sideways. Another thing could be that you charged a target, managed to kill it, consolidated to try to lock up another unit, but then the purestrains die (denying movement/shooting on a turn 1 could be very impactful).
@@UmULW While that would allow you to put the Purestrains back on the board on your opponent's turn 1(assuming you went first, and that you succeed on a 4+ to get the unit back), you would not be able to use them(moving, doing actions or charging) until your turn 2. So if the intention was to get the units to "deep strike" on turn 1 and then attack, then no.
If it just a matter of getting them back on the board, then yes, if you go first on turn 1, suicide the unit at the end of the fight phase, roll 4+ and get them back, then they can be down on the board at the end of the movement phase of your opponent's turn 1.
Great, now we cant even reliability kill a rhino.
Eeyup, gonna have to dip into guard tanks with brood brothers to have actual anti-tank punch outside 3 heavy mining laser platforms and the new character. This army did not need this level of anti-tank punch taken away from them.
Mining Lasers are now Strength 10, so they wound the Rhino the same as before(they are T9). Demo charges are less effective against them though(wounds on a 4+ rather than 3+).
@@fendelphi Sorry should have clarrified, meant rhinos+, we struggle worse against any vehicles rhino equivalent and way worse on anything now better then a rhino.
@@fendelphi Heavy Mining Lasers still S12. Can get 9 in a list although that would be madness
just curious though - what exactly in the language is now restricting the nexos to battle tactics only?
There was a previous dataslate change
Does stimulated bio surge not atavk with the detachment rule then?
i guess cult models will be cheap to buy on ebay now
It already started this weekend in germany.
@@_Bayul sorry, i dont quite understand 🤔
@@davidmills6203 Some GSC collections already appeared here on ebay. I bought a cheap Primus I might use in Xenocreed.
Nexos can now only target its own unit instead of any unit in your army.
Thank you for the upload!!!
Hail the 4 Armed Emperor!
The patriarch passed off the tyranid effectiveness of fighting tanks.
Points changes 😂 will have to wait a couple of months for those because of Muh nEw CoDex.
i want an MSU horde style of army for GSC, gonna take a lot of time and money to make so ill try first on TTS
I don't know if it helps, but if you play Necromunda all those gangers certainly look like armed civilian mobs to me. So long as your special weapons are obvious then thats a much more diverse force right there
I was so excited to run 3 Rogal Dorns with a ton of 20 man Cult Ambush Neophytes... Now I have to fire a full Rogal Dorn into one enemy unit to give buffs?? Also Cult Ambush is crap now???
I thought GW was only nerfing Imperium Codexes. Not its Xenos too? At least my Chaos boys are looking good...
People were tracking the wrong parameter when they said Imperials were getting nerfed, its new factions (those introduced after 5th ed) that are getting the crap codex's.
A dramatic points drop will be what decides if this is an interesting hard to master codex, or unplayable garbage.
Damn, they really don’t want GSC to have Brood Bothers. Their “Own Detachment” doesn’t even give them much support. It really surprising since Imperium and Chaos still have such great Ally support. Overall it’s cool that some of the non played units got buffs, but I think all these changes is going to drop this army off pretty hard in any ratings.
How do you even do this?? It’s sooo much each day!
this whole codex feels like a "lets make GSC unplayable to a point where we can phase the army out" move
Ah, the deathwatch tactic.
Wish the Metamorphs were affected by Broodsurge ngl
They get benefits in the Xenocreed Congregation. If lead by a character, they can reroll their advance and charge rolls.
Really sad that they lost their fight back ability though.
They can have an attached biophagus who gives them the buff I believe
That was such a missed opportunity. Although you could say the entire codex was missed opportunities ☹️😢
neophyte hybrids options are now a lot more restrictive, they only get 2 of each weapon , so you have to do 2 mining laser and 2 seismic cannons etc
In a box, you only get 10 models, and for 10 models, you can only have 2 heavy weapons(Mining Lasers or Seismic Cannons and 2 special weapons(Grenade Launchers, Flamer, Webber). If you have 20 models, you can take 4 of each. How is that more restrictive than what we have in the Index?
@@fendelphi They're box locked now where they weren't before. In the index, you could take two of the same heavy weapons per ten neophytes, now you can only take two different heavy weapons. Same deal with the special weapons.
@@odavenport7smal Ah, I see. Yeah, then I dont get the drastic changes all.
You cant really focus such a mixed unit into doing a specific task(characters/command points), and then you nerf those weapons on top of that. Makes no sense.
Urgh that's a bit painful, yes I'd missed that one. They're going to be a lot less focused when shooting. Apologies for the error - I'll add to the corrections round-up comment above!
@@auspextactics well hopefully they are going be pointed like a horde unit now and not a glass cannon unit, really thing the army loosing punch but gaining numerical advantage (out numbering enemy) is good
interested to know if Acolutes are still battleline, if so GSC players can now field a lot of them.
and if they lose battleline they can not do the extras on a lot of the new missions for battleline.
They still are battle line
As far as I can tell GSC now have 3 battleline unit options, so in theory could could do some insane secret mission plays to swing the game.
@@johnj.spurgin7037 yea i feared they did like the other codex/index where they split one unit into more.
like the Tyranid split of warriors and the Tau battle suits.
@@NecroGoblin-yl2fx it's a solution to the problem they CAUSED by removing the cost of wargear. It's better than ignoring the problem, but it's still irritating.
@@johnj.spurgin7037 i know, but with the changes they are making now with the Rules, losing battleline will do so that they will not score as many points.
Certainly some ok stuff, plenty of downgrades also, weird how many , after you are shot, things there are. I don’t know ow about everyone else but my T3 or T4 units don’t have much left after a solid unit shoots them. Sometimes yeah but man that shadows strat saved butts.
Everyone here is sleeping on Outlander and the power of removing a vehicle such as an RG into strategic reserves and popping up behind them, and tank shocking something. Especially with bike zipping around pinning units and drawing them. I cant wait to play
2 problems:
1) Your vehicle needs to be wholly within 9" of the board edge at the end of the enemy's fight phase, and not engaged. It then comes back in your reserve phase, and cant be within 9" of an enemy model. So you will have to succeed on a 9" charge, at best.
2) You have to spend 1 CP to get it off the board and back in reserves, then after having made a succesful charge, spend another CP for the Tank Shock.
Just seems very situational, rather than an overall strategy.
Something tells me Auspex is a big GSC fan.
I want to see some agri world Gsc besides just miners.
For once i like GSC to come in swinging hard, stop being the massively underrated underdogs 😢,for the four armed emperor!
fyi both of the transports are at firing deck 6 not 12
Good catch.
For both the Rockgrinder and the Truck? Yikes.
Obligatory “get some sleep” comment here 🧐
Do you ever sleep? Do you have perma - overwatch? What vitamins do you use?
I didn't expect much, and yet it's a disappointment ^^
This codex was written when GSC was winning tournaments, and now that we are at 47% winrate it just feels like nerf hammering a dead man...
Let's wait for the points update, but I'm not optimistic...
#boycott10th
A points cut really can't justify nearly everything getting nerfed in some manner. The thing with GSC is they're fragile but hit really hard. Even if everything went down by 20% they just don't have the same kind of punch.
Like I play votann and I'm getting flashbacks to when the 10th ed index came out. No durability and massively nerfed damage output doesn't feel fun, whether you're playing casually or competitively (Yes they were too good before but the nerf was too much).
WOO WOO WOO WOO WOO WOO SCRUNGILY BOYSSSS
Dedicated GSC player here: so long as we get appropriate points cuts this has the potential to be a pretty good codex. GSC were never meant to be the horrific damage hammers that needed very little support or setup that the index made them out to be. This is how they are supposed to function. Sheer quantity of garbage datasheets backed up by their subfaction rules and clever play. The codex might be a little weak but I think we’re still in the fight
Losing my two russes and a point decrease means I wont have a army anymore. Fuck balancing armies by cutting the points. JUST WRITE GOOD RULES!
@@TheSilverDragon1 GW has repeatedly shown in 10th that isn't happening.
Its frustrating it took this long to scroll down and see this comment. GSC are pretty much regular dudes with improvised weapons. We're not meant to jump in and one shot a tank with demo charges. Im keen for outrider claw because im going to have to focus on maneuverability and objective control, its forcing me to outplay my opponent instead of outright kill them. Tie them up with rockgrinders and aberrants/metamorphs/acolytes while the ridgerunners escort the bikes around the table, redeploying for 1cp to keep the opponent guessing all the while Neophyte squads, kellermorphs, saboteurs and sanctus' are being a nuance
I feel like a year of index play has made everyone forget GSC are rewarded when they use their strats and unit rules to get up to shenanigans and outplay the other army, not just blow things up with mining lasers in one turn.
@@eo8240 people, including me were doing that because: 1. It's a shooting edition, 2. the remaining units didn't do anything special (cheap secondaries, resilient primaries, tricks) nor had good synergies, 3. the main rule while unreliable allow battleline to be more reliable (now neither), 4. All units, except combat patrol boxes are super expensive. 5. The detachment awarded shooting. ...... Now regarding the new changes, making units cheap and become a horde army makes sense but will make us an expensive AdMech like army with much less option since Broodbrothers. I want to see how the army evolves but it's already frustrating. I started again 40k in 9th with GSC because it was fun and the army required mastery. Now it's just spam stuff and plain boring. People don't deserve to have this "garbage game design" treatment after spending so much money on this game.
@eo8240 I am not going to spend £200 buying bikes for one detachment that will last for two years before being removed in 11th. In fact I have to play the guard one, since I doubt I will have enough points to play any other. Every unit has been nurfed into the ground. So I expect 40pts neophyte and 10pts magus from reading the new rules. I only started with 1,500pts of GSC to begin with.
It's 6 AM for me, please get some rest man, you deserve it
❤️🙌🔥
The way cult ambush is worded it might be possible to rapid ingress in one unit from cult ambush. Also getting 2 units on the table when you only have one blip is nice.
Much love from Texas brother, love the nose to the grindstone work ethic
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These changes feel pretty bad, GW.
the metamorph ability is the lamest, unfun, unthematic rule I've seen in a while. "IF this unit gets shot AND one of them dies AND the unit survives AND the unit isn't battleshocked AND it doesn't have any hand flamers...."
It can move with Hand Flamers, but it will be D6". But yeah, it is barely a special ability. They at least got some core durability(5+ FNP) to make it work a bit better, but I much prefered the "fight back on death" they used to have.
Played 10 Metas with Iconward today, these guys slaughtered battlewagon, 20 boyz, painboy and warboss AND survived until the end of battle, I actually think they are fun
Please make a video to explain cult ambush
Aberrants nerf. Again.
And im what? Supposed to pay £40 for this? Yeah right
Neophyte is overpriced and ridiculous now
For 100 pts you have 10 scions in the guard.....
There is no way when they release the points that we'll still be 9ppm. More like 7
@@rickrivers2021 still to pricey for me to make it work , when you consider the number of caracter to make it work
@@clarkwalter7170 I think triple Primus is going to go away, we probably only bother with one now. Instead, triple iconward is the way to go, and they're only 50 points. Will be curious to see what the benefictus costs
The hot nuns get the amazing codex. The bald, multi-armed mutants get the terrible codex.
“Real life is unfair. Why should Warhammer be any different!”
-James Workshop
If it has not changed the patriarch can not take biomorphic adaptation due to it being an epic hero.
I believe patriarch is no longer epic
It is no longer an Epic character. It was stated in the video.
I think it looks alright.
First😊
Am I the only one seeing the awesome potential in this codex to troll your opponent with wild goose chases with disposable heros and blips while regenerating your objective holders?
Maybe , the fun will quiclky drop when tabled turn2 and the opponent has still 90% of his army
GSC does not really have "disposable heroes". At least not to the degree that it would become "confusing" to keep up with the blibs.
@@fendelphi you arent understanding wht im talking about. Take a nexos and an iconward and hide them at home with some acolytes (partially to farm cp, partially to move a blip around as a distraction and summon it in with iconward when it inevitably gets screened out) Then you pivot to using 2 or 3 of your cheapest lone op of choice to do the same thing you were doing with blips while your actual force plays normally and puts in work. Wont work on omega sweaty turbo power gamers but I dont play for those people so who cares.
@@seaturtleslastname8286 You are still spending 110 pts on moving a blib around that the opponent does not have to chase. All they really have to do, is make sure that the blib is nowhere important. Because the unit comes back at the end of the opponent's Reinforcement step, so they get to kill them all again before they can do anything. If they have positioned well.
Or they can intercept it with deep strikes or something that goes really fast.
The Iconward can "save" 1 blib per battle. The Nexos can move 1 blib per command phase.
If you are also spending points on several lone op characters(Kelermorph, Sanctus and Reductus), then that is even more points that relying on the opponent doing exactly what you want.
I am not saying that it cant be done. I just dont think it would actually be fun when attempting it.
0 views in 1 second fell off 😢
Can’t wait for the wave of salt. The book looks fun, and you’re allowed to be excited for things other people don’t like
And people are allowed to be upset when it now takes multiple units costed over a rhino to unreliably kill a rhino.
@@LordKrosis I would love to see the maths on that
@@LordKrosisthey haven’t shown the points yet.
@@RotnGrot Ok well lets see, mining lasers now wound anything tougher then a rhino either 16-33% worse now. Demo charges wound rhinos 16% worse and anything above a rhino 16-33% worse depending on if it has t11 or t12+. That good enough math for that?
@@Swampsong117 A rhino is 75 points, even if the unit goes down 10 points and you run a 5 man its now the same cost as a rhino. A 10 man being going down 20 from 170 points is still 150, double the cost of a rhino and thats before you put any characters in the unit to help it kill vehicles.
well deserved nerf, thanks team B
I'm super happy they get nerfed. I played against Two genestealer cults during a tournament, and it wasn't fun. they deepstrick at 3 with demolition charge and/or seismic weapons, wipe your units, then at your turn, you kill them, they come back to your next turn, with the same tactics. the death of fun itself.
Same to be honest. Also 6 aberrants with 4+ fnp -1 to wound soaked up so much damage then went into close combat.
But why should that also nerf the Mining Lasers and the Aberrants?
Also, that combo was mostly a one time occurence per turn(can only use the stratagem once per turn), if not the entire battle. The high alpha damage typically relied on a Primus being in the unit(to reroll hit rolls, because they had BS5+), which means at least 260 pts invested in the unit. And the Primus is not coming back with the unit. The unit coming back has to do so near one of the markers, which gives you several ways to negate their return and the impact they will have if they do return.
Several armies also have the ability to deploy screening units(deep strike denial within 12" for example), which would also greatly negate the potency of the combo. And of course, you can overwatch as the target sets up from deep strike.
Basically, it was a potent combo that could rarely be used more than once, and there were several counters to it in general. But now the damage of the combo is substantially lower and you have a much harder time getting the unit back if it is wiped out. I am not sure it is even worth doing anymore, unless there will be some substantial point cost reduction to the units.
@@fendelphi 260pts is nothing for that damage. Dark angels had to invest 580pts into deathwing and captain to have similar damage. Also the roughly 800point ironstorm stormraven combo got nerfed as well similarly. Demo charges are still very potent eith 4d6 blast against infantry. They should not work well against heavy armor.
@@mtrunkello You do not need to invest 580 pts to get similar damage. Well, maybe if you take the wrong type of unit.
A full unit of Inceptors(260 pts) with their plasma weaponry can generate similar damage against an Oath of Moment target(reroll hit rolls, reroll wound rolls, total of 12 shots, AP-3 damage 3), and is much, much tougher to remove afterwards(6 models with T6, Sv3+, 3W). And can attack from 18" away, so no need to get within flamer overwatch range.
If you take the Bolter version instead, you can clear out infantry formation with ease with the same combo(18 attacks, Sustained hits 2, reroll hit rolls, reroll wound rolls, AP-1, damage 2).
Putting a minimum of 260 pts of GSC with a Primus(potential VP target) right next to a unit might roll hot and deal a lot of damage, or it might roll bad and fail to deliver. That is what happens when you are dealing with BS5+ and random amount of attacks and damage.
Against a vehicle, the old Demolition Charges(which only has AP-2 btw) might deal 2-6 damage, or it might deal 14. It is extremely swingy and unreliable, especially if the target has something like Armour of Contempt, or other ways to negate AP or damage.
In fact, the new Demo Charges are now almost worse at dealing with heavy vehicles(T10+) than the anti-infantry Webber(automatic hits, devastating wounds on a 6), due to how few attacks that actually hit.
Same deal with the Seismic Cannons. A lot of shots, but hitting on a 5+ and require 5s or 6s to wound a big tank. Sure, you get a total of 24 shots if within 12"(now reduced to 16 shots), but roughly half of them fails to hit(with a Primus), and the majority also fails to wound. Then we have AP-1 and a random amount of damage, meaning even with 24 shots, you might be scoring 4-5 damage on a tank. The amount of marines you can kill with Armour of Contempt active will average to about 2-3 standard marines.
@@fendelphi and you didnt find any other combination that can deal similar damage? No +1 to hit rule, no lethal hits rule, no strat for +1 to hit, no strat for +1 to wound? Its easy for you to say just use 6 inceptors while dark angel units are terminator focused. Similarly i can just say : just use brood borther guard lul. Or spam benefictus models for s12 shots