I'll pull a quote from one of my "sacred texts" THE INVISIBLES written by Grant Morrison and illustrated by many. "You are playing a game disguised as everything." Makes sense to me. It may or may not make sense to you. Ideas have been exchanged. They may take root. Or not. Fire up that pipe regardless. Great words, Dickey! 20:09
Grant Morrison huh? Gary, am I sensing a comic book collector here??? If so, I once had over 12K of those sacred texts! "...a game disguised as everything." I've never read The Invisibles but that sentence is powerful to me. I did have to go out to the stump after recording these segments today. Carter Hall and the unknown cracked pipe again. Thanks for your comments Gary. They are always welcome.
@DickeyLabs Yes, indeed, a comic guy, Dickey. Since the tender age of six. I'm more about reading them rather than collecting them. THE INVISIBLES is....really hard to sum up in a sentence. I have the whole original collection because the letter columns were gonzo and the collected trade paperbacks. I *would* like to score the collected OMNIBUS one day.
@@DickeyLabs12K? Respect. The first thing you invariably get asked: "Do you have any that are worth anything?" Nope. They're a passion, not a futures investment.
@@TheGentlemanScholar I started by reading and then it grew into collecting. When I moved into my home I told myself that I was not going to move all those long boxes again. Now I do digital (when they are on sale). And that would have been blasphemy to me even 10 years ago! But it's so easy to read. I have a 13" iPad so the page size is commensurate with the physical copy. Plus, there's no bags, boards, and the dreaded tape to deal with. So yeah, I don't worry about the collecting part any more. I will have to look into THE INVISIBLES. I'm aware of the title but that's as far as it goes.
Hey now! Watch where you're pointing that thing.👊😆 Well, as i write this you've gained 2 subs.😄 I appreciate you sharing your perspective. I'm not going to grab my bible and quote anything to you, but i will grab another that i think we both can appreciate. "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind shouldn't matter and those who matter shouldn't mind" - Dr. Seuss. 😄 I feel like we can all agree on respecting others and their beliefs. I know, I've got my head in the clouds again😆 Anyways, I'm really looking forward to the Serious Chair session on politics now! 😆 Take care Dickey😁💨💨and Happy Halloween! 🎃 👻
@@jespiping Wow. Quoting Dr. Seuss. You know Jesse, that was the first set of books that I can remember checking out at the library when I was a young Dickey. They just fascinated me. And I agree, we should be able to get along even though there might be some differences in beliefs, and yes, even politics. It’s almost like we now live in a “you’re either with us or against us” world. As far as politics go, boy, you really want to kick things up don’t cha? Let’s just say that I’ve voted conservatively most of my life. But today’s Conservative Party bears no resemblance to that of which I remember. Oh great… I’ve just lost 25 more subs…
A bright and learned individual talks about this topic by saying that if ALL the books, research, and other written materials were to abruptly and completely disappear, all of the scientific works would, over time, be recreated because of the objective facts, but religious works would not - because they lack objective facts. Having studied religion, I tend to agree with you. In fact, moral people are moral because that's who they are. It's religion that has, over time, made moral people do (and are still doing) highly immoral acts.
So if humanity did a factory reset of knowledge back to zero, then in 2000 years (or so) we will be right back to where we are in science, but not religious beliefs. See, this makes sense to me...
Well, you won’t lose this Christian subscriber. My story is the reverse of yours. As an atheist leaning agnostic scientist (math/physics) I became convinced of the truth of Christianity. There are many Christians in the YTPC, but there are also Muslims, Jews, and-gasp-atheists and agnostics. And as with any community, some folks are better at dealing with differences than others. As long as you’re not an Auburn or Tennessee fan we can be friends😂
Well thank you Ethan. Looks like we've got the Uno reverse card going here huh!? And it sounds like our backgrounds are similar. Tell me, if you would, what was it that made you take the belief system off the "analysis" bookshelf and over on the "leave it alone" bookshelf?? If I were to guess I'm thinking maybe a personal experience?? Of course, you realize now that I will *have* to be a Auburn and Tennessee fan...
It was a combination of many things. I went from atheist to agnostic based on science. From there it became the single question-the only truly important one regarding Christianity-of the historicity of the resurrection.
I'd be curious to know specifically the science that took you from atheist to agnostic. And truthfully Ethan, I think that shift is doable. The resurrection - "historicity"... I'm not at that point. Other than the Bible, or sources that reference the Bible, is the resurrection mentioned anywhere else? I'm hoping you have sources that I've yet to uncover.
Short versions: The biology of life is too complex to have evolved randomly. Take chiralty as an example. The simplest biological molecules require thousands of nucleotides and amino acids to align with the correct chiralty simultaneously. The odds of that happening randomly-and for that molecule to somehow form replicating RNA/DNA-are realistically zero. As for the historicity of the resurrection (again, short version) it was the lives and deaths of the apostles that turned me. Eleven men who had nothing to gain all stuck to the same story to death. That makes no sense if what they said were false-and they knew whether it was. Comparisons of the evidence for the resurrection to other claimed historic events go into far greater detail than I could possibly do. There isn’t any special or extra evidentiary source of which I’m aware-I’m simply convinced by the evidence we have as presented.
@@ParsimoniousPiper I tend to lean over on the side of improbable does not mean impossible. Given enough time it very well *could* be possible. I understand the issue that creationists have with abiogenesis. Just how can you get something from nothing? It's at this point I frequently hear the watchmaker analogy. The watch implies a maker. OK, if I were to concede that, and agree that there must be a creator, the creator then becomes the watch. Where did the creator come from if something cannot come from nothing? It becomes an infinite progression back. When I'm then asked the question of how did the universe begin I have a very simple answer - I don't know. That doesn't mean we will never know. Thank you for your thoughtful response and although we are coming from different directions we can still enjoy conversation and a bowl of a good blend.✌
Sorry it might be true that someone might unsubscribe from hearing your views. You communicated things in a very respectful way. So there shouldn’t be and hurt feelings. Hope you have a great week!
@@SmokingCardboard Thank you for your comment. Truthfully, subscription numbers really don’t matter to me. With TH-cam’s rules for revenue, I’ll never meet those standards. And that’s okay. I just enjoy meeting new people on this platform. Hope you have a great week as well!
I spent a long time typing out a very long comment and clicked off and accidentally lost it. But to sum it up my mother was a teacher I was raised in atheist I was not raised even though I was in the United States and an environment that would have made me a Christian. I have seen many people from Muslim countries study the Quran of which they are told that if you don't have the gospels you have nothing and of which they are told that Jesus was a prophet when they study the gospels along with their Quran in detail I have seen many of Muslim from them Middle East break down and convert Christianity. I would reason with my reasonable mind from when I was a child and an atheist and studied science that if God was real that he would be one of the god's worship today he wouldn't have disappeared years ago. That only leaves a few There is the Mormons, there is the Jehovah's witnesses, there is the Buddhist, there is the Muslims, and there is the Christians, and the Jews also gnosticism. With gnosticism it claims that the god of the Bible is a little god and that there's a big god that watches over him and keeps him in check but that the God of the Bible is in fact evil. It died out years ago as a religion but it is sometimes brought up today in comment sections and things like that it gets a lot of facts wrong about the Bible and if you're climbing to be truth and you can't quote something properly then I don't think you're truth. Mormons believe in a man named Joseph Smith that came and translated lost books of the Bible given to him by God and then he returned them to heaven via an angel. Deuteronomy claims in the Bible that if a man gives a prophecy that doesn't come true then he's not a prophet and not speaking for God There are many prophecies in the book of Mormon and in Joseph Smith Bible translation that never came true. Like there would be a temple of Mormon in Missouri and in one of the books of Mormon it claims that Jesus will be born in Jerusalem but in fact he was born in Bethlehem which Mormon scholars still struggle to explain. Spoken to a Jehovah's witness and after looking over what they believe they seem to have taken the Greek texts of the New Testament and slanted them in a way to fit their idea that Jesus is not God. And they have some radical ideas about the cross that it was not across that it was some kind of torture device stake. We now have more evidence about crucifixion during that period and have been finding bones dated to the period Jesus lived that have nails in the feet and nails in the hands to show that crucifixion was in fact a thing practiced which eliminates a Jehovah's witness view there and a large one. Some Buddha scholars say that it's clear that Jesus embraced Buddhist teachings and that he has reached enlightenment and he can be looked at as an example. If that is the case that negates their entire worldview because Jesus taught the opposite of what they teach that in Buddhism you can reach enlightenment by self-improvement and Jesus taught that you can never get there on your own that you need him to make up for the sin and the parts that you can't fix. As far as the Jews go we worship the same God they read the Old Testament while Christians read the Old Testament and the New Testament many many Jews have converted to Christianity especially the first Christians which stopped Sabbath on Saturday to worship on Sunday out of respect for Jesus who when they look hard into their scriptures and cross-reference it with what Jesus claimed about himself see that he is the same God of the Old Testament. Now if I can eliminate it down to one religion Christianity. And still from an atheist worldview I can put that up against evidence. And I've seen many of atheists get very frustrated when I realize their evidence doesn't go very far. I even heard one atheist say I trust that one day the science will explain things. Well that sounds an awful lot like Faith to me. A world-renowned scientist like Stephen Hawking released pretty embarrassing books towards the end of his life where he pretty much says we're in the matrix because he has no other explanation and can't prove that either. Now that doesn't mean you'll believe there's a God but science can't explain the world we don't have enough information. We don't simply have a book like Harry Potter. We have over 5,000 manuscripts or pieces of manuscript of the New Testament we have an embarrassment of riches especially compared to any famous author like Homer who at most only has 15 copies of their manuscript still in existence. With the 5,000 manuscripts we have which I believe were divinely preserved because over 99.7% of the manuscripts are in agreement and don't affect any doctrine even a wild skeptic like Bart ehrman which released the book misquoting Jesus. He is an atheist and a New Testament scholar so he is the forefront expert on the subject and you could say is an unbiased party in religion which is hard to find. He was asked why do you think the Bible is corrupted and unreliable and heavily changed. Bart Ehrman reply that he doesn't agree with that that there is no doctrine affected in the Christian faith by the manuscripts. The most preserved book of all time and in a world of handwritten documents before the printing press it is also largely unchanged almost fully. Now we have other translations of the Bible in English today and many people will think that's a negative that you can't decide on which version. Translation is not math and scholarly men with a lot of background disagree on how certain text should be translated but it never really affects the whole message the Hebrew and Greek of the old and New testaments is largely unchanged and the translations we have today are the result of people disagreeing on how to render that text but that doesn't mean that we Lost the Bible like some people claim we have it we can look at the originals and make our decisions based on that. Morality is an interesting thing. It makes me sad when I look at a fellow Christian and they treat someone badly. Like I was treated badly as a child by Christians. But that doesn't change how Jesus treated people when I look at his example I know that how an everyday person that tries to be like him acts is very different from how he acted. I fail every day to try to be like him, but I try to be. There is a great ministry and a great book attached to it I can't remember the ministry right now but the book is called I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. His name is Frank Turek He's got an upcoming book on the subject you're talking about I believe going to be called Stealing From God: Why atheists need God to Make their Case. I mean the big question is what defines morality is it objective If it's not objective and it's all about opinions then you can walk around all day and kill people because it makes you feel better. If you think it's what's best for everyone. Who decides that what if someone hates being like everyone. Well you might say then it's best for the most amount of people. Well Stalin thought he was doing what was best for the most of people. If it's all your opinion and there's no objective morality then who cares. Treat others as you would like to be treated as you mentioned. I mean right there even though you say that it doesn't originate from the Bible even so you are following a commandment of God which is great. It's great that you want to be a good person. But if we live in a world with no objective morality you can't say it's wrong to kill someone with no motive or any other horrible thing because there is no objective morality it is simply your opinion. I have stated enough have a good day. Keep studying You are going to come to your own conclusions and I pray that you come back to Christ.
Wow. I very much appreciate the manner in which you responded. It's also a shame that you lost the longer first comment. Thank you for explaining how you narrowed down the god of your belief. Now, at this point, out of respect for you and your belief, I will use the capital "G". You had many points as to how your belief system is where it's at today. It will take me some time to go back through your response. It was dense with information. Might have to print it out because I do better with paper and pencil as I study things. A couple of things off the top of my head - You mentioned that the atheists get frustrated when their evidence doesn't go very far. That's why I'm not in the atheist camp. When a claim is made that there IS NO God that tells me that they have some additional objective information to support that claim. Again, I'm in the agnostic group. The agnostic makes no such claims. I've not been convinced one way or the other. I think we are closer in thinking on the morality issue than we are farther apart. That's why toward the end I mentioned that "if religion is the only thing keeping you moral don't give it up." Thank you again for taking the time to redo what you had lost in the initial response. You were very thoughtful in your comment and I will take some time to process that. Hope the rest of the weekend goes well for you.
There's a phrase that comes to mind when I read this comment Gary, "Well I can't think of any other reason for that happening". The assumption here is that the individual has all knowledge. Just because someone can't think of any other reason doesn't mean that said reason doesn't exist!
@@DickeyLabs Religion. It's how you wear it, I guess. And preach it. And wield it. I just remember as a kid, my mom being recruited by the Holy Rollers in the next unit. Went to ONE session of Sunday school. Even in first grade, the Jim Jones vibes were fierce. Never went back.
You shared your view...plain and simple. People can either live with or live without. It won't alter the suns rise or fall.
I appreciate that.
I'll pull a quote from one of my "sacred texts" THE INVISIBLES written by Grant Morrison and illustrated by many. "You are playing a game disguised as everything." Makes sense to me. It may or may not make sense to you. Ideas have been exchanged. They may take root. Or not. Fire up that pipe regardless. Great words, Dickey! 20:09
Grant Morrison huh? Gary, am I sensing a comic book collector here??? If so, I once had over 12K of those sacred texts!
"...a game disguised as everything." I've never read The Invisibles but that sentence is powerful to me.
I did have to go out to the stump after recording these segments today. Carter Hall and the unknown cracked pipe again. Thanks for your comments Gary. They are always welcome.
@DickeyLabs Yes, indeed, a comic guy, Dickey. Since the tender age of six. I'm more about reading them rather than collecting them. THE INVISIBLES is....really hard to sum up in a sentence. I have the whole original collection because the letter columns were gonzo and the collected trade paperbacks. I *would* like to score the collected OMNIBUS one day.
Me expanding my horizons.....th-cam.com/video/hvuq76x4Etc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=y9bFOdQzjdArCAkf
@@DickeyLabs12K? Respect. The first thing you invariably get asked: "Do you have any that are worth anything?" Nope. They're a passion, not a futures investment.
@@TheGentlemanScholar I started by reading and then it grew into collecting. When I moved into my home I told myself that I was not going to move all those long boxes again. Now I do digital (when they are on sale). And that would have been blasphemy to me even 10 years ago! But it's so easy to read. I have a 13" iPad so the page size is commensurate with the physical copy. Plus, there's no bags, boards, and the dreaded tape to deal with. So yeah, I don't worry about the collecting part any more. I will have to look into THE INVISIBLES. I'm aware of the title but that's as far as it goes.
Good Afternoon 😊 Fantastic Video👌🏽 Thanks For Sharing 👏🏼 Great Observations 👍🏼 Have a Great Day & God Bless You 🙏🏽 Greetings From South Africa 🇿🇦
Thanks for the comment Yusuf. I'll definitely have a great day!
Hey now! Watch where you're pointing that thing.👊😆
Well, as i write this you've gained 2 subs.😄
I appreciate you sharing your perspective.
I'm not going to grab my bible and quote anything to you, but i will grab another that i think we both can appreciate.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind shouldn't matter and those who matter shouldn't mind" - Dr. Seuss. 😄
I feel like we can all agree on respecting others and their beliefs.
I know, I've got my head in the clouds again😆
Anyways, I'm really looking forward to the Serious Chair session on politics now! 😆
Take care Dickey😁💨💨and Happy Halloween! 🎃 👻
@@jespiping Wow. Quoting Dr. Seuss. You know Jesse, that was the first set of books that I can remember checking out at the library when I was a young Dickey. They just fascinated me.
And I agree, we should be able to get along even though there might be some differences in beliefs, and yes, even politics. It’s almost like we now live in a “you’re either with us or against us” world. As far as politics go, boy, you really want to kick things up don’t cha? Let’s just say that I’ve voted conservatively most of my life. But today’s Conservative Party bears no resemblance to that of which I remember.
Oh great… I’ve just lost 25 more subs…
Man... some great observations, sir. 8:36
Thank you Gary
A bright and learned individual talks about this topic by saying that if ALL the books, research, and other written materials were to abruptly and completely disappear, all of the scientific works would, over time, be recreated because of the objective facts, but religious works would not - because they lack objective facts. Having studied religion, I tend to agree with you. In fact, moral people are moral because that's who they are. It's religion that has, over time, made moral people do (and are still doing) highly immoral acts.
So if humanity did a factory reset of knowledge back to zero, then in 2000 years (or so) we will be right back to where we are in science, but not religious beliefs.
See, this makes sense to me...
Well, you won’t lose this Christian subscriber. My story is the reverse of yours. As an atheist leaning agnostic scientist (math/physics) I became convinced of the truth of Christianity. There are many Christians in the YTPC, but there are also Muslims, Jews, and-gasp-atheists and agnostics. And as with any community, some folks are better at dealing with differences than others. As long as you’re not an Auburn or Tennessee fan we can be friends😂
Well thank you Ethan. Looks like we've got the Uno reverse card going here huh!? And it sounds like our backgrounds are similar. Tell me, if you would, what was it that made you take the belief system off the "analysis" bookshelf and over on the "leave it alone" bookshelf?? If I were to guess I'm thinking maybe a personal experience??
Of course, you realize now that I will *have* to be a Auburn and Tennessee fan...
It was a combination of many things. I went from atheist to agnostic based on science. From there it became the single question-the only truly important one regarding Christianity-of the historicity of the resurrection.
I'd be curious to know specifically the science that took you from atheist to agnostic. And truthfully Ethan, I think that shift is doable.
The resurrection - "historicity"... I'm not at that point. Other than the Bible, or sources that reference the Bible, is the resurrection mentioned anywhere else? I'm hoping you have sources that I've yet to uncover.
Short versions:
The biology of life is too complex to have evolved randomly. Take chiralty as an example. The simplest biological molecules require thousands of nucleotides and amino acids to align with the correct chiralty simultaneously. The odds of that happening randomly-and for that molecule to somehow form replicating RNA/DNA-are realistically zero.
As for the historicity of the resurrection (again, short version) it was the lives and deaths of the apostles that turned me. Eleven men who had nothing to gain all stuck to the same story to death. That makes no sense if what they said were false-and they knew whether it was. Comparisons of the evidence for the resurrection to other claimed historic events go into far greater detail than I could possibly do. There isn’t any special or extra evidentiary source of which I’m aware-I’m simply convinced by the evidence we have as presented.
@@ParsimoniousPiper I tend to lean over on the side of improbable does not mean impossible. Given enough time it very well *could* be possible.
I understand the issue that creationists have with abiogenesis. Just how can you get something from nothing? It's at this point I frequently hear the watchmaker analogy. The watch implies a maker. OK, if I were to concede that, and agree that there must be a creator, the creator then becomes the watch. Where did the creator come from if something cannot come from nothing? It becomes an infinite progression back. When I'm then asked the question of how did the universe begin I have a very simple answer - I don't know. That doesn't mean we will never know.
Thank you for your thoughtful response and although we are coming from different directions we can still enjoy conversation and a bowl of a good blend.✌
Sorry it might be true that someone might unsubscribe from hearing your views. You communicated things in a very respectful way. So there shouldn’t be and hurt feelings. Hope you have a great week!
@@SmokingCardboard Thank you for your comment. Truthfully, subscription numbers really don’t matter to me. With TH-cam’s rules for revenue, I’ll never meet those standards. And that’s okay. I just enjoy meeting new people on this platform. Hope you have a great week as well!
Gained a sub 👍. Great video
Thanks for the sub!
I spent a long time typing out a very long comment and clicked off and accidentally lost it. But to sum it up my mother was a teacher I was raised in atheist I was not raised even though I was in the United States and an environment that would have made me a Christian. I have seen many people from Muslim countries study the Quran of which they are told that if you don't have the gospels you have nothing and of which they are told that Jesus was a prophet when they study the gospels along with their Quran in detail I have seen many of Muslim from them Middle East break down and convert Christianity. I would reason with my reasonable mind from when I was a child and an atheist and studied science that if God was real that he would be one of the god's worship today he wouldn't have disappeared years ago. That only leaves a few There is the Mormons, there is the Jehovah's witnesses, there is the Buddhist, there is the Muslims, and there is the Christians, and the Jews also gnosticism. With gnosticism it claims that the god of the Bible is a little god and that there's a big god that watches over him and keeps him in check but that the God of the Bible is in fact evil. It died out years ago as a religion but it is sometimes brought up today in comment sections and things like that it gets a lot of facts wrong about the Bible and if you're climbing to be truth and you can't quote something properly then I don't think you're truth. Mormons believe in a man named Joseph Smith that came and translated lost books of the Bible given to him by God and then he returned them to heaven via an angel. Deuteronomy claims in the Bible that if a man gives a prophecy that doesn't come true then he's not a prophet and not speaking for God There are many prophecies in the book of Mormon and in Joseph Smith Bible translation that never came true. Like there would be a temple of Mormon in Missouri and in one of the books of Mormon it claims that Jesus will be born in Jerusalem but in fact he was born in Bethlehem which Mormon scholars still struggle to explain. Spoken to a Jehovah's witness and after looking over what they believe they seem to have taken the Greek texts of the New Testament and slanted them in a way to fit their idea that Jesus is not God. And they have some radical ideas about the cross that it was not across that it was some kind of torture device stake. We now have more evidence about crucifixion during that period and have been finding bones dated to the period Jesus lived that have nails in the feet and nails in the hands to show that crucifixion was in fact a thing practiced which eliminates a Jehovah's witness view there and a large one. Some Buddha scholars say that it's clear that Jesus embraced Buddhist teachings and that he has reached enlightenment and he can be looked at as an example. If that is the case that negates their entire worldview because Jesus taught the opposite of what they teach that in Buddhism you can reach enlightenment by self-improvement and Jesus taught that you can never get there on your own that you need him to make up for the sin and the parts that you can't fix. As far as the Jews go we worship the same God they read the Old Testament while Christians read the Old Testament and the New Testament many many Jews have converted to Christianity especially the first Christians which stopped Sabbath on Saturday to worship on Sunday out of respect for Jesus who when they look hard into their scriptures and cross-reference it with what Jesus claimed about himself see that he is the same God of the Old Testament.
Now if I can eliminate it down to one religion Christianity. And still from an atheist worldview I can put that up against evidence. And I've seen many of atheists get very frustrated when I realize their evidence doesn't go very far. I even heard one atheist say I trust that one day the science will explain things. Well that sounds an awful lot like Faith to me. A world-renowned scientist like Stephen Hawking released pretty embarrassing books towards the end of his life where he pretty much says we're in the matrix because he has no other explanation and can't prove that either. Now that doesn't mean you'll believe there's a God but science can't explain the world we don't have enough information.
We don't simply have a book like Harry Potter. We have over 5,000 manuscripts or pieces of manuscript of the New Testament we have an embarrassment of riches especially compared to any famous author like Homer who at most only has 15 copies of their manuscript still in existence. With the 5,000 manuscripts we have which I believe were divinely preserved because over 99.7% of the manuscripts are in agreement and don't affect any doctrine even a wild skeptic like Bart ehrman which released the book misquoting Jesus. He is an atheist and a New Testament scholar so he is the forefront expert on the subject and you could say is an unbiased party in religion which is hard to find. He was asked why do you think the Bible is corrupted and unreliable and heavily changed. Bart Ehrman reply that he doesn't agree with that that there is no doctrine affected in the Christian faith by the manuscripts.
The most preserved book of all time and in a world of handwritten documents before the printing press it is also largely unchanged almost fully.
Now we have other translations of the Bible in English today and many people will think that's a negative that you can't decide on which version. Translation is not math and scholarly men with a lot of background disagree on how certain text should be translated but it never really affects the whole message the Hebrew and Greek of the old and New testaments is largely unchanged and the translations we have today are the result of people disagreeing on how to render that text but that doesn't mean that we Lost the Bible like some people claim we have it we can look at the originals and make our decisions based on that.
Morality is an interesting thing. It makes me sad when I look at a fellow Christian and they treat someone badly. Like I was treated badly as a child by Christians. But that doesn't change how Jesus treated people when I look at his example I know that how an everyday person that tries to be like him acts is very different from how he acted. I fail every day to try to be like him, but I try to be. There is a great ministry and a great book attached to it I can't remember the ministry right now but the book is called I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. His name is Frank Turek He's got an upcoming book on the subject you're talking about I believe going to be called Stealing From God: Why atheists need God to Make their Case. I mean the big question is what defines morality is it objective If it's not objective and it's all about opinions then you can walk around all day and kill people because it makes you feel better. If you think it's what's best for everyone. Who decides that what if someone hates being like everyone. Well you might say then it's best for the most amount of people. Well Stalin thought he was doing what was best for the most of people. If it's all your opinion and there's no objective morality then who cares. Treat others as you would like to be treated as you mentioned. I mean right there even though you say that it doesn't originate from the Bible even so you are following a commandment of God which is great. It's great that you want to be a good person. But if we live in a world with no objective morality you can't say it's wrong to kill someone with no motive or any other horrible thing because there is no objective morality it is simply your opinion.
I have stated enough have a good day. Keep studying You are going to come to your own conclusions and I pray that you come back to Christ.
Wow. I very much appreciate the manner in which you responded. It's also a shame that you lost the longer first comment.
Thank you for explaining how you narrowed down the god of your belief. Now, at this point, out of respect for you and your belief, I will use the capital "G". You had many points as to how your belief system is where it's at today. It will take me some time to go back through your response. It was dense with information. Might have to print it out because I do better with paper and pencil as I study things.
A couple of things off the top of my head - You mentioned that the atheists get frustrated when their evidence doesn't go very far. That's why I'm not in the atheist camp. When a claim is made that there IS NO God that tells me that they have some additional objective information to support that claim. Again, I'm in the agnostic group. The agnostic makes no such claims. I've not been convinced one way or the other.
I think we are closer in thinking on the morality issue than we are farther apart. That's why toward the end I mentioned that "if religion is the only thing keeping you moral don't give it up."
Thank you again for taking the time to redo what you had lost in the initial response. You were very thoughtful in your comment and I will take some time to process that.
Hope the rest of the weekend goes well for you.
@DickeyLabs Your Welcome. I wasn't trying to say your were and atheist. I was just trying to touch on that view.
And that's the point, isn't it? The lack of viable facts. We don't know how much we *don't* know. 13:33
There's a phrase that comes to mind when I read this comment Gary, "Well I can't think of any other reason for that happening". The assumption here is that the individual has all knowledge. Just because someone can't think of any other reason doesn't mean that said reason doesn't exist!
@@DickeyLabs Religion. It's how you wear it, I guess. And preach it. And wield it. I just remember as a kid, my mom being recruited by the Holy Rollers in the next unit. Went to ONE session of Sunday school. Even in first grade, the Jim Jones vibes were fierce. Never went back.