33. Managing Freight with RFID on McKinley Railway
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ย. 2019
- To manage a complex freight operation is a real challenge. Here at McKinley, we view it as a "Demand Economy" with 600 wagons moving around the layout with real purpose. This video explains how, using RFID, we plan and track our freight movements.
The requested technical details are as follows:
We are using readers and tags in the 13.5 Mhz range.
The Tag information is available at: zipnfc.com/nfc-sticker-midas-...
The readers are based on the Eccel Pepper C1 readers: eccel.co.uk/tag/pepper-c1/
However, we have adapted these readers to connect a larger 50mmx50mm external aerial. Eccel are planning to make this a standard product in the new year. - บันเทิง
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RFID = Radio-frequency Identification . Your description of how it works was pretty good really. It sends a little signal out, and the receiving tag picks that up, and uses a little bit of the signal to make electricity. There are many different things. NFC, Near Field Communication, used in credit cards is similar, but a little different :). These days you can get NFC tags for many things.
I will never have as extensive a layout as you have, but you're solutions to problems have given me a lot of ideas when updating my layout. I appreciate that.
You are taking model railroading far beyond what most of us could have ever dreamed of ..
Thats the dream Jim.
I like the idea of using RFID in model railroad. I would probably go overboard by adding a tag to every car and locomotive. It would allow me to design software that would let me track the exact location of every car on the layout. If I had data which included the car length, I could calculate the speed a train was moving at, and I would be able to determine if the entire train has cleared a crossing. This could be handy for signaling. I would also use this for determining whether or not a train has lost a car along the way. I could trigger an emergency shutdown of the operation based on that. Or, I could shut down that one train and close off the line with signaling to prevent a crash. There is a lot of fun and interesting stuff you could do. I think I would build in a rail operation simulator. Imagine a freight switching yard where a diesel locomotive assembles and disassembles train sets based on a set of instructions. Using the RFID tags, the system would know where every required car was, where it was within a set of cars, and where free space was for a locomotive to move cars around to get to the one it needed. That kind of programming is right up my alley. I just need my own layout to work on :-)
I'm glad we have inspired you. I would hold back from tagging everything though. RFID isn't the best solution for lots of things. We are using it to register locations rather than other factors such as speed and direction of travel.
@@dattouk What would be the issue with tagging everything? I cannot imagine it would overwhelm a wireless router. You can always split up your wireless traffic onto different channels. If it is too much for the Pi, you could always use multiple Pi's. The latest generation of the Pi is pretty powerful. I would tag everything just so I could build out an application that would allow me to operate a relatively realistic operation. I think an automated shunting system could be entertaining to watch. It would make the model world a bit more dynamic. Imagine going to your tablet and placing a grain order and watching your model world come to life. Add in simulations for holiday traffic, sporting events, etc.
Radio frequency identification
I was exposed to a fair bit of distribution rfid during my working life. Now that I’m retired and into model railways, I thought more than once that rfid could identify trains and locos on a model railway. Finally someone has applied it.
We are not quite there yet... Stay tuned fingers crossed..
Fantastic as always 👍🏻
Awesome use of technology to help with operations of a massive layout. Thanks for sharing. Ken
What a brilliant railway!
Thankyou for the links guys, much easier by far
Very interesting idea!
thank you great ideas and detailed video and layout operation
Great use for RFID.
Radio-frequency identification (RFID) uses electromagnetic fields to automatically identify and track tags attached to objects. The tags contain electronically stored information. Passive tags collect energy from a nearby RFID reader's interrogating radio waves. Active tags have a local power source (such as a battery) and may operate hundreds of meters from the RFID reader. Unlike a barcode, the tags don't need to be within the line of sight of the reader, so it may be embedded in the tracked object. RFID is one method of automatic identification and data capture (AIDC) (from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio-frequency_identification)
It's very interesting to see every day technology being used to control model railways. It would be interesting to see how far this current RFID technology progresses in 3 years time when you've fully integrated it. Best of luck!
Hi Everyone,
The requested technical details are as follows:
We are using readers and tags in the 13.5 Mhz range.
The Tag information is available at:
zipnfc.com/nfc-sticker-midas-tiny-ntag213.html
The readers are based on the Eccel Pepper C1 readers:
eccel.co.uk/tag/pepper-c1/
However, we are adapted these readers to install a larger 50mmx50mm external aerial. Eccel are planning to make this a standard product in the new year.
Regards
David
Fantastic!
absolutely brilliant video, exactly what i was looking to do and you have saved me a great deal of effort trying to work out what to use and how.
Thank you very much for sharing.
Glad it helped. Stay tuned. We are going to have an RFID demo at a show in January here in the UK. There will be a video of that shortly..
I FORGOT, THEY PUT THERE ON THE BOTTOM SIDE OF THE FRIGHT CARS, AND THE READER IS ON THE SIDE OF THE TRACK NEXT TO THE RAIL, BEFORE IT GETS TO IT'S DISTANATION IN THE YARD. THRU GRAVITY THE CAR LEVES AND GO'S TO WHERE IT IS SUPPOSE TO. TKS VERY INTERESTING.
Very interesting indeed. Where you are 'worried / concerned' about the thickness of a base board 'blocking' the signal, I came up with a useful idea which works for me. Take a sharp drill bit and working out how deep you wish to drill under the baseboard mark the drill bit with tape or a small circular clip, and simply drill upwards until the marker touches the baseboard. The drill will stop short of the underneath of your track / base material. Then just fix the PCB under the baseboard so the required component is exactly under the hole.
I am just doing this with some auto signals and it seems to work.
Cheers, Bob
Thanks Bob, We will consider that. Thank you.
We are very pleased to see our readers and antennas in action. If anyone is interested in a multiplexed RFID reader, please visit our website: www.eccel.co.uk
Rfid tags are used on rolling stock on the real thing for some yards, so this is definitely art following life! :)
One thing though, when we've had rolling stock damaged and then rebuilt & recommissioned, the database has remembered the old ID, and refused the updated rolling stock numbers!
I recommend a seperate rfid reader station where IDs can be taken out of the database or reassigned, as it will save headaches later.
That is an excellent idea. Thank you... We will put this on our profiling station.
I would be worth looking at larger antennas (longer in the direction of motion) or antennas based on ferrodrods as used in radio receivers. The RFID protocol allows for more devices to be in the operating area.
Top.
That's an awfully expensive bottle of milk, have you considered ASDA?? 😂
If you put the readers in pairs, one close after the other, passing tags will set them off in sequence. A bit of code will then be able to figure out in which direction the tag passed them, allowing for better indications (count-in and count-out for each loadingzone e.g.) and, if you want to, more clever automation.
You could do that, but it gets expensive. Sidings technically only need one at the entrance. We have put two into the bi-directional tracks to record end of entry/exit. When we show the next video on this you will see how it has been done.
just add a free standing wall with the rfid transmitter in it, next to the track
or if enough space add a building/tunnel with ..., the transmitter could even be smaller then.
MiFair system? playing with that myself! More please.
If you want to get direction information also without placing multiple RFID readers in sequence, you could always attach two RFID tags to each loco and use the scanning order to determine direction of travel.
Yes understood, but trying to get any tag to work with a locomotive was the main issue for a long time. Even if we obtained loco orientation, we'd still have the problems of trying to feed that into TrainController.
Looks like a really cool idea. For the distance issues on the old part of the layout, I wonder if you could make circuit board with traces or use a loop of wire that integrates into scenery like signal gantries to get a reliable read, and not disturb too much
Thats a good idea, but I believe the antennas are very specific beasts as even the length of the wire coming from them has to be a specific length. I am ignorant about the specifics here, but we have a video meeting planned with the manufacturer in December. I'll ask them then. We have through of an "in-between the tracks" antenna. The lads at MERG came up with that idea, but I am not sure how we connect it into our readers. Stay tuned for more updates in the new year.
Any further news on how all this is working out? It looks like an answer for me in N-scale. It seems to avoid lots of rail cutting and allows adjustments in the case of planning errors and/or mistakes.
Excellent 👍from what you have shown here started me thinking, could you tie in a chip passing an aerial to trigger a certain station announcement i.e. "the train approaching platform 2 is the 15:10 to Birmingham" . I think it could have many applications, it's just getting the software behind it which unfortunately is above my pay grade.
I'm more of a hardware girl than software girl, but I think that that would be pretty easy to setup.
One can do this with simple RailCom, surely?
@@JamesPetts I wouldn't know, but I will find out if I can. We have a guy at our club who is pretty good at this kind of stuff.
As he said in other words at the end; there is no interface connection from the RFID-system to the main-/ computer-train-controlling-system (which already knows what passanger train should go were, but according to video 32. not the exact time when it´s turn) *yet* and unclear how well it get´s and performs under the existing tracks with there surroundings (rails, ballast, wooden boards, ...) -> Trial and Error till there and it "comes later" in the priority list then other things to do.
Nice work guys. Some questions. Can you advise on speeds of reading? For example, if the tagged vehicle was travelling at model mainline speeds over the sensor would the sensor still get a reliable read? Also, I assume that plastic body vehicles don't need the neoprene pad, unless they have metal weights inside them, then they probably do? I'll go away and look at your product links, but looks like you're using NFC tags and they can have data added to them - using an NFC writer app on a phone. That would allow for example each tag to contain some dynamic data like the vehicle's "last run" or "last serviced" date :-) such fun!
I have planned (but never built!) a more active system where power is drawn from the track (or from the logic output of a decoder) to power a small 8-pin MCU which is pre-programmed to send a UID via simple serial via an IR LED shining out of the underside of the vehicle. IR receivers set into the track receive this and from thereon, the same as your system. This is essentially a "squak ident" system where all vehices send their ident every 500ms or something. Using low power MCUs and some kind of reservoir capacitor in the vehicle I *think* it would work. The MCUs (for example an ATTINY85 AVR chip) can be got very cheaply and programmed easily enough - but again, my concern is, would it work reliably at speed?
Without giving the game away on the upcoming video, we are getting 100% reads on all stock up to 40 cm/s which equates to about 70 MPH in OO terms. That is quite astonishing. All stock is fitted with neoprene to get the tag close to the track level. It truely doesn't show. The tags we use are relatively cheap. The frequency of the DCC doesn't interfere and once the manufacturer (Eccel technology) produced some tuned aeriels for being under the rail track we were in 7th heaven. We have used some ferrite boards with a skinny neoprene pad under locos and that is proving to be reliable too.
Back again David, Hi. Once again I find myself mulling over you inspirational video content.
I’ve been wondering if there is an rfid reader at the beginnings and ends to sidings/passing tracks etc etc does that imply that if they were positioned correctly under the track could their outputs do the role of the IRdot detectors to identify ‘end of section’ to finally stop a train pre stop signals etc? This is extra from engine, wagon carrage set identification. I realise that it is likely you already have the IRdot’s in place but it’s a possible reuse type of situation is it not?
Hi Mark,
The short answer is probably NOT. The Long answer is :To replace an Infra-Red detector with an RFID requires some thought. The Infra-Red triggers a relay which closes or opens a sensor port wired to a device that sits on LocoNet. The RFID detector sends a long text string "somewhere". That "somewhere" has to read it, interpret it as a Brake/Guards truck and then send something to TrainController to trigger a stop. As TrainController only responses to a sensor message, you have to generate LocoNet messages from the software via a library such as RRAuto (www.perecli.com/rrauto/) to achieve the same result.
What we are doing is something similar except we are sending a Trsnsponding ID out over LocoNet from the RFID information. This allows our system to position non-DCC-chipped stock correctly in the platforms. Hope that makes sense.
McKinley Railway thanks David for your thoughts
Great video! I've often thought of RFID for my layout. What are you using as a database to collect and process the data? I'm really looking forward to seeing how this progresses.
We are using Filemaker principally for the GUI on iPads, PC and Macs.. You can use any database system. The key is getting the data in.. Thats the challenge.
I was saddened to learn of the passing away of your previos videographer in another video - you may not realise, but since his last video, your McKinley Railway theme music has often had a stutter in it ever since, like as if someone has accidentally nudged the left (or right) audio track a fraction, thus the stereo track being slightly "jiterry" in sound. You may want to check the sound waveform up close, or if resyncronising it is too difficult (you may have difficulty hearing it whereas I'm an audio engineer), then you might simply want to copy the left track to the right track. The jitter is mostly clearly audible on the percussive instruments in the music. Please let me know if you'd like further assistance or clarification.
PS. Congrats on the use of RFID and the train computer control - I have always wanted to do computer controlled timetabling since a kid and I absolutely love your clear philosophy that the automation is to SUPPLEMENT the manual control to allow interaction and enjoyment - brilliant direction!
Thanks for the pointer. We will have a look. Re-timetabling, are you based in the UK? Anywhere near the south?
Hi. Interesting, having found bar code usage to be prohibitively expensive and the readers too bulky I have also obtained some RFID tags, reader modules and separate wifi modules to try this out. Certainly I would prefer to place the readers under the baseboard in the scenic areas too. Your info on the neoprene for spacing the wagon mounted tags is useful as is that the DCC electrical signals in the track does not cause a problem.
Two questions at this time, how thick is the neoprene you use and what RF frequency does your tags and readers operate at. Thanks, Jim
The neoprene is about 10mm deep. The RFID technical data is at the top of the comments.
@@dattouk Hi, do you mean deep or thick?
@@freightuk The neoprene extends towards the track from the base of the wagons by 10mm.
@@dattouk Ouch, that is a long and obtrusive depth amongst the brake gear of a wagon. Is the 10mm to lower the tag close enough to the track due to limited RF range or for placing sufficient gap between the tag and a metal chassis. Thanks, Jim
@@freightuk Mostly yes to both. I didn't want to spend hours testing each wagon find the minimum and like all things, it was what I had on tap for another reason. We tried it and it worked. You'd be surprised how unobtrusive it is. Operators rarely looking sideways on at the trains and the black neoprene just merges in behind the dirty chassis and brake gear. When we do our next video, I'll make a point of showing the wagons moving on a scenic section of track.
Could you also include links to the tags and readers in the description as others may wish to follow you recommendations for their own layouts
I'll post a comment at the top this week.. Dvaid
Hi Malcolm,
Sorry for the delay. We finally cracked the RFID saga. The tags we use are:
zipnfc.com/nfc-sticker-midas-tiny-ntag213.html
The equipment comes from Eccel technologies.
eccel.co.uk/
We use their Pepper range of their products. Work a treat. More videos to come shortly.
@@davidtownend7743 Thanks - Much appreciated
I see your Eccel Chilli UART-B-1 reader is a 13.56MHz unit. My electronics suppliers (in Australia) stock more 125kHz RFID gear. Do you recommend avoiding 125kHz, or is it six of one, half dozen of the other - subject to the usual caveats on electrical interference and distance constraints. Is it easier or cheaper to get the 13.56 adhesive stickers to put on the wagons? Thanks for taking the time to make these very educational videos.
So I am not wise about frequencies, but I doubt that it would work as well. The 13 Mhz range is so far away from the DCC 14 KHz that it doesn't interfere all all according the the Eccel boys - We are getting unbelievably strong results with the higher frequency. A bit like Long Wave and FM radio. Why not email them? They are the clever ones who cracked it for us. The tags we are using come from ZipNFC. Here's the link.
zipnfc.com/nfc-sticker-midas-tiny-ntag213.html
They fit under OO/HO wagon bodies without being seen. We use 10mm neoprene tape on the bottom of the wagons to separate the tag from the metal weights in the wagon. If you have a low body where you can't add a 10mm piece of neoprene, you will need some ferrite sheet plus a 1mm neoprene separator. This small piece of neoprene allows the magnetic waves to waft around the tag. More videos to follow on this subject.
This might be useful for signaling and route selection. Is there sometimes an overlap with wagons being registered by a reader on a different track?
We hope not. Once the Sheffield section of the new world is complete, we will be testing for this. If we have overlapping reads we will be in trouble! Stay tuned...
What do points make ? ... directional changes for trains 😜
I've watched this video again and another thought has occured to me. While this high-tech system isn't NECESSARY on most layouts, only on a huge set-up like this, it could be a FUN way to operate a smaller layout. Someone has already mentioned the "index cards" system. THAT system isn't really NECESSARY either but can be a lot of fun to use. Running this new technology as a version of T.O.P.S. could add a whole new dimension to operating, even a branch terminus.
I wonder DAVID, what would be your estimate of the cost (just a ball-park figure) to install this system on a small fiddle yard - terminus layout? Also, would it be feasible, on the above layout, for one guy to install it in a weekend? Is it fair to sat that, after the wagons are adapted, the rest should be, pretty much, plain-sailing on a small layout(IF you know what you're doing)?
Sorry to plague you with questions but I'm starting to think this could be great fun to use on a more "normal" home layout.😊
Cheers for now,
Dougie.
Hi Dougie, The first big challenge is to get the RFID system to work reliably. The second even bigger challenge is the database system behind it. RFID without that has limited benefits such as basic stock tracking in hidden yards. The idea we are implementing is similar to that of TOPS, but requires a ton of creative thinking to ensure we have matching industries at different locations. Utilising of the different kinds of wagons and so on. Balancing the demand of wagons on a model railway appears to be quite different to the real world. I don't think its a weekend's work. You could have a look at the JMRI Operations software. That might help.
David
@@dattouk I'll do that David; Thanks for taking the time to answer.👍
Cheers for now,
Dougie.
Nice ,will the main system also track if a wagon is full or empty? Or is this something the operators just have to imagine while working on the freight movements?
We intend to do that. Most of the wagons are closed, so the loaded status is virtual. If the system tells the operators that the van is full of bicycles, then who are we to disagree.
Open wagons will be a bit more interesting. We do have coal loads to play with, but I'm not sure how enthusiastic the operators are going to be about pulling coal loads out of wagons.
Work in progress.
RF chip reading, good idea but will need some clever software to collate and utilise data
Hi David. Yes - thats the big challenge. We are working on the database and iPad aspect currently.
Have you tested all of your readers sending information to the Pi all at once? How many can it handle?
That is great - I would be interested in that email and perhaps even links to where to acquire these components...
Please tell what database software you pick for the iPads. We have not found a suitable DBS for iPad. A data point needed is Full or Empty (loaded or unloaded). With this data point for each wagon the operator will know associate the load or empty with a particular product, which might also have an RFID on it. With a wagon ID and a load ID and a customer or designation ID you can on computer construct a days deliveries and figure the time to make up a train of loads going out and alternately a train of empties coming back.
Hello Jon,
Sorry for the very late reply. Somehow I missed your question. We have developed a database application in Filemaker which is a commercial Apple product. It is cross platform in all senses except android and is a rapid application development environment. Its not free-to-use and we have installed a server to hold the data. There is a JMRI solution which you could adapt the RFID data to work with. We have worked with a great RFID hardware supplier called Eccel, but they are not a database or application company.
David
Hello David and the team,
I hope that this text finds you well and healthy?
I was just wondering if you have had, any news development on the RFID system, that you can share? Hardware and software information about that would be most welcome.
Thanks!
Hi Dylan, we have. .....and its amazing... A video is coming out sooon.
Could you not use this system with the coaching stock too - rather than have sticky numbers on the ends of the trains ?
Yes we intend to, but the visible numbers are helpful too.
Are you planning to go to the NEC on Saturday? If so are you going to show any of the carriages you've lit up and with people inside?
Hi Sam, not this year. We are demonstrating at the Southampton Show in January 2020 - I'll take some along there.
Could RFID be used on rolling stock for say a OO scale hump yard to sort the wagons?
yes he said hesitantly... You could do this and it would work..
This is all very nice and extremely clever but do we actually get to see some trains running please?
Good point Norman.. We'll get some moving trains coming soon.
David
Could you not use two rfid chips, labeled a and b as part of the same unit and use that to measure direction as it passes over the same reader? A then B would always be down line and B then A would always be up line, unless you have a loop back obviously
We are looking into the manufacturer producing just that kind of RFID reader that multiplexes between two antennas.. Will keep you informed as and when we find out more.
Is there any type of speed limit for this to work?? i.e. Does it miss/not read it if you go over the reader too quickly??
There was. We spent some time checking that. Very slow speeds are the hardest as the induced current isn't strong enough to fire off the chip.
How reliable is it?
I've been experimenting with something similar for my own trains, but I found that reading the tags became really difficult when the trains were moving at speed. Sometimes the reading would be garbled, and sometimes it just wouldn't read anything at all.
Our preliminary tests indicate we will be OK. The operational layout around Sheffield goes live n a few months. We'll send out an update then.
Could you double up readers, and thereby sense direction?
Is your use of RFID to make it reduce the cost of stock management on the tracks? I am told that tramsponding (doing the same thing as RFID w/direction too) is very expensive if you have a lot of stock.
Hello Hans, its not the cost that is the driver here. Transponding works for Stock with a DCC chip. It was never designed for Freight management of wagons. We want to track hundreds of wagons and give operators a clear purpose of where to shunt wagons. We have a database that holds records for every wagon, it also has many waybills for each kind of wagon. We are using RFID tags on the wagons to tell the database a) what specific wagon is where and display the associated waybill which give the operator the instruction of what to do with the wagon. Once that task is completed, the database then assigns a new waybill to the wagon, which then shows the operator what the next task is. Neither Transponding nor RailCom are appropriate for this.
Hi, I am somewhat knowledgeable about RFID and such, if you have questions let me know and I will see if I can help.
please supply part numbers and suppliers of rfid readers & tags, thanks
WIll do..
I LIKE THE IDEA, BUT IM ONLY IN BEGINING OF MINE. DID U KNOW IN CXS USES RFID IN THERE FRIGHT YD'S IN COLARDO. THAT IS HOW THEY TRACK THERE FRIGHT.
Hi Skip, I didn't know about CXS, but it makes sense. It is certainly proving to be an exciting journey for us.
How do I get the email with all the info ?
Has anyone used this technology for block management?
Not to my knowledge, but now we have it working, you could do it . I believe it is more expensive than conventional detection but simpler on the wiring. Stay tuned and see now it works.
What make are the tags ?
David,
I have added a note at the top of the thread to show the details about the tags.
Pardon my ignorance, haven’t you by introducing RFID and a system not integrated into an NRMA standard, created the issue that you now have, in getting data from an RFID database over to your train controller software in such a way as the controller can use it for routing purposes. Would not a decoder in a set of wagons not only achieve the same result, but also be instantly readable to the controller software? I’m presuming those massive German layouts must have tracking on their wagons, so clearly I am missing something?
Hi Alan, DCC is primarily a one way control system for locos and switches and the feedback logic you describe (either Railcom or Transponding) is not designed to report back dozens of identities in a single detection block. I'm not aware of any large system (German or otherwise) that use any available form of feedback and tracking (standard or proprietary).
In my view R&D is expensive, time-consuming and gives unpredictable results and so my golden rule has always been to buy off-the-shelf product to run the railway. As I am breaking rule number 1, I am proceeding with cautious enthusiasm!
Where can I find the email mentioned near the start of your video for the geeks who want to know the technical details. As mentioned in another comment there are lots of possibilities with this technology. Keep up the great work you are doing.
At the very last page is a printout of the technicalities.
Apologies for stopping the video at your usual closing sequence and not running it to the very end. I was hopping to get more on the frequency used by the RFID chips to overcome the problems of metallic materials and the DCC signals in the rails. Are you using LF, HF or UHF chips? Could you divulge the identity of the readers you are using? Thanks
Info posted at the top of the comments.
Hello, did you look at the TrainTraxx.com solution ?
We did and their solution was inspiring, but the concept they were offering was very slow via the cloud from here in the UK. Specifically, there were too many parts and the antenna was very bulky, the tags offered didn't work so well on UK rolling stock. Besides the hardware challenges the key aspect is the database integration. Their offering wasn't developed enough at the time and we ended up developing our own custom system. We also considered adapting the JMRI freight system which could work, but we didn't have access to people with the necessary skills. Happy to share our knowledge to help
Thanks guys. You do have an alternate solution to the Americans
Milk for £4.50?! And I thought London prices were bad haha
He bought a lot of milk
While I DO think this is an incredible set-up, I'm beginning to wonder if you will ever finish it. With every new video, you start to introduce another massive infrastructure project, each of which is going to take years to implement. It seems to be starting to become a bit of a monster. Have you any "full-time staff" or is this being carried out by a small team, each working a few hours, most days? From what you've shown us, I reckon this project would take a large, full-time crew quite a few years to complete.
I wish you EVERY success with McKinley, I really do, but it would be nice to see some of you "having fun" with what must be one of the biggest layouts in the country. It shouldn't ALL be hard work.😊
Good Luck,
Dougie.
2H80vids Hi Dougie. It would “appear” as if you personality see all these electronics as “hard work”. But not trying to put words into David’s mouth I would content that David and his team are breaking new ground on were model railways can grow and develop electronicly to push the boundaries of realism. I love this side of the hobby. If only I lived in the UK some where I would volunteer like a shot to help David get where he wants to go. I totally acknowledge that for many if not most modellers the electronics side of our wonderful hobby is pure drudgery but to others it is fascinating. But in the end isn’t it all about having fun, even electronics.
@@markstafford5586 I totally agree about "breaking new ground". The electronics side of the hobby fascinates me too and, if I was closer, I would happily offer to volunteer.
The point I was trying to make is purely to do with the time scale. There is only SO MUCH that a small, volunteer team can get through and many aspects of McKinley(at least for the moment) are going to become pretty tedious after several years of repetitive preparation. Simply compiling the databases is a MASSIVE task, even ignoring the more physical aspects, such as adding the chips to 600+ wagons.
I wasn't belittling the job they are doing, not in any way. What they are attempting is mind-boggling and is showcasing what can be achieved with modern tech. Sorry if I sounded negative; I just think they could use more hands, LOTS more hands.
Cheers for now,
Dougie.
2H80vids Dougie, I’m sure they could use more hands, that’s for sure. But without knowing for sure, I think what David has in place is a structure not unlike a model railway club. And model railway clubs all over the world have been able to come together and build models that would be impossible to build if it was left to just one individual. I suspect that this club type atmosphere is the main enabling ingredient that David has been so successful in nurturing. It sound like both you and I are a little jealous, just a little bit, hahahaha!
@@markstafford5586 I'm trying, unsuccessfully, to find space for a tiny N scale layout in a one bedroom flat Mark. I don't know if jealous is the word; I'm certainly somewhat in awe of the set-up. It's taking me SO long trying to plan mine that they keep inventing things. When we got this flat, DCC was untried technology.😬
I agree that there seems to be a club vibe about McKinley but thats kinda my point; once a week for a few hours isn't going to be enough for this one.
I WOULD love to have a look round the layout though; EVERYTHING seems to be possible. Basically, they seem to be re-inventing T.O.P.S. but how long did it take to get THAT to work properly?
Good point Dougie, Are you based near Bournemouth?
One question. Why dont hide inside the wagons?
Answered at th-cam.com/video/xcWixqpF44A/w-d-xo.html :D
Because of the metal weights. Metal interferes with magnetic waves.
Charlie/David. Given my poor eyesight I cannot read the last page printout of the geek (my) stuff. Could you consider either sending it via “real” email or alternately provide links to suppliers/model numbers. The writing on the last page is not able to be made larger for us visually impaired fan boys.
Will do.
£4.50? How much milk are you buying...?
Guessing the milk was just the initiate reason to go shopping.
@@lassunsschaun6859 Ahh, perhaps he bought some tinned soup, too; possibly also some bread and cheese?
Probably organic lol
As you know, you never leave with just the goods you need!
I'd be careful showing a credit card on TH-cam, if the numbers are legible you could get unwanted charges on that card from dishonest viewers!