52. RFID is now operational at McKinley Railway.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- The RFID journey has been long with many false starts.
A last we can report that now it can be used operationally and will bring an extra dimension to our freight operations, here at McKinley Railway.
The RFID tags are inexpensive. They are 22p each. Here's the ones we use across all the stock.
zipnfc.com/nfc-sticker-midas-...
We use the Eccel readers which are either the Pepper MUX 8-channel boards or the single Pepper ones at something like £50 and £35 respectively. The antennas are about £10 each.
eccel.co.uk/product-category/...
We found the MUX devices work well in most areas, but have gone for the single readers in high speed zones just to be safe. - บันเทิง
Absolutely fascinating stuff. I think it's everyone's dream to have a operating session on this model. 👍
Fascinating and brilliant in equal measure. Even got a bit of the good old Charlie Bishop jeopardy in there for added entertainment value! :-)
Zo be g
A very proffesional approach to the task in hand. Takes playing with trains to a whole new level. A fascinating watch.
Superb engineering! You really have cracked that, it's so easy to understand what's going on and what's needed to be done. Showing current position on lhs and target on rhs of assembly tracks banner just couldn't be simpler on that display, all that effort planning has really paid off, so professional, well done. Stephen
Thank you Stephen. Its been a bit of mission but we got them. Big team effort in many ways.
Absolutely fascinating clip, the time and effort you spend planning these yards is amazing and managing to capture it with explanations in a short video is superb. Great to see some trains running, just hope you can get enough operators when fully functional. I think you might need a bigger kettle in the kitchen or maybe an urn 🤫. Keep up the great work.
Getting enough operators will be interesting, but hopefully the lure of this mad adventure will pull them in.
@@dattouk If I could come, I would. This is the best execution of a model railroad I have ever seen!
Outstanding! It truly brings model railroading into the 21st century! I’ve not seen this done on such a scale before. Excellent tool for young people who might be interested in a career in Dispatching and yard management.
Glad you enjoyed it
Nice layout. Saves a lot of paperwork.
This layout needs to be relocated into a commercial premises charging admission to support your expansion. It's not fair you lot get to play trains in private 😂 Great job boys
I echo what you just said
Me too
Unbelievable.... An amazing layout... Thanks for the updates..
Wow! Very impressive; that Freight Manager screen is so good, fascinating, as usual!
Hi Dave.
I have to say your railway is probably better organised than British Rail. In fact, you're so well organised that you're even wearing autumn coloured trousers which is very appropriate for October.
Wow, awsome video. Just amazing what you can do with technology and imagination. Looking forward to the next video
really enjoyable... thank you so much for this channel.... great job
Glad you enjoy it!
Love to see a video of it sll staffed and in full flow. All in good time
Great use of technology David, well thought out and no doubt well tested.
Don’t worry about the uncouplers not working 100%, that will give the shutters some extra work on the night!
Love what you guys do, to operate a yard like you are going to do is amazing !
Thanks
Point a camera at a model railway and you can guarantee it will go wrong.
Amazing stuff and I can't imagine how much this lot has cost.
Just don't go there..😀. All I can say is its a lot cheaper than yachts, planes and cars.
There is now a system called BiDid, bidirectional information between train and digital controller system. The digital controller asks the train where it is and the train responds back to the central controller with it's position. No use of Rfid necessary.
Love seeing these updates David. Fascinating stuff. The freight manager screen is really user friendly.
Thanks Jon. We are on iteration 3 of the screen. We just had 5 operating nights to test it out and as a result there is one more significant change to make it even easier for the operators. The goal is that guest operators will be able to come over from other model railway clubs and get the hang of this within an hour and then have fun running trains on McKinley.
Absolutely superb 👍🏻
Many thanks
Taking shape ... wonderful.
We can see the summit... Just...
This was very interesting. I really liked that we got to see some operation on the new layout. I would definitely like to see more videos of operation in the future.
Thanks! Will do!
Amazing use of technology!
Lovely work team. I would love to implement something similar on my layout.
Hi David, thanks for this demo, it all looks really good and you and your team have solved a hell of a lot of problems to get there too! The benefits of having a record of where things are on such a large setup must go well beyond the marshalling tasks - for example asset tracking of all your stock and being able to identify individual vehicles in their storage sidings will be very handy when you are running your different era trains for time-machine mode.
I would guess that in future you could build on all kinds of inferential data from the RFID sightings. For example by constructing queries about an individual loco, obtaining a list of where was it seen and when you could work out how far and how fast it has travelled and from that, when it should be taken to the workshops for a proactive wheel clean or general mechanical service. Got to beat waiting for things to fail in service and since you're accumulating all that info, why not use it for additional purposes like that!
Anyway, great to see you got all this working - and a pat on the back to Charlie for the filming and editing of this fairly complex subject.
I'm sure that there will have been manufacturers watching your progress and who knows, in 10-15 years time perhaps all rolling items will come with an RFID tag on them as standard!
Best wishes
Alan T
Hello Alan,
Your point about maintenance is a good one. It reminded me of a trip I made with Darren to Hamburg to see the Zuper system there. We managed to get onto a "behind the scenes" tour. All was good and the control room looked impressive. As we passed a clinically white set of workbenches, I asked about their maintenance regime. The answer was "we run them until they break down". That was not the answer I expected. I ask Steve Winter to think about capturing the running lengths for all the schedules and log the StockSets with the schedule and the length combined with the date and time. The sooner we start the quicker will find out meaningful information. Many thanks,
David
A fantastic layout. I would love a chance to play trains there!
Are you a member of a railway club or society such as MERG?
Terrific
Awesome!
Impressive!
How exciting 👍❤️
It most certainly is. There has been some days when I am not sure it will ever work and then other days when we leap 100 miles... Thanks for watching. David
Fantastic. Good to see that you sometimes have to revert to the Hand of God!!
Nice to see some realistic freight operation, David.
Regarding the labelling of sidings, I've never heard the term "brake van park". More usually it's van siding, van lye (or lie). Often colloquially called the "van kip".
You are probably right Peter. I'm no railway expert. I have fun running them.
Thanks for the great videos. Are you planning (or maybe it already occurs) to have the RFID data communicated with TrainController (I think that is what you are using), so that engine identification is displayed on the switchboard schematic, rather than just an occupancy indication? I think at the time of this video, the RFID data is being sent to / captured by your database / freight mgt software. To all involved in the layout / technology / RFID etc journey, well done, and please keep the videos coming. cheers PS Apologies if I have missed a video that explains this aspect.
Was stood next to you a few times today David, (guy with the red hat on) but didnt want to disturb you, hope you had a good time at GETS and love the vids mate.
Eric
Thanks Eric. I enjoyed myself being an operator and getting out to a show. Only trouble is two of us contracted the dreaded lurgy! Not to serious through.
@@dattouk oh no! Not ideal. Funnily enough i did end up chatting to you in the end, i was with Anthony the owner of AGR if you remember. thanks for the invite down, we cannot wait 🙂
Great to meet you.
I am terribly impressed, but I wouldn't want to go to this complexity for my layout because it would take away the pleasure of the railway.
The plan is that it won't be complex for the operators - What you are seeing now is the engineering integration which is complex messy and time consuming. However, the proof will be in the eating in due course.
TRUE DREAM LAYOUT WITH LOT OF DETAIL OPERATION
Mind blowing, the level of detail you guys have gone to! This is going to keep the operators 'on their toes' so to speak!
What happens if after all a wagon turns up at the wrong destination? Is the 'rogue' operator identified and 'pilloried'?
Thats a good idea.. We could put him on tea duties for a month.
McKinley, David. This is just great to see, I for one could watch it all day. On my own very small layout I don't think I need the computer or RFID option's. But with your permission I'd like to borrow your control panel ideas. I also now think I'll place the 2 panel's on the front fascia above the layout. Beside each panel will be a small flat screen showing the actual place in real time. When a train moves in Barstow U.S.A. The same train will run on the layout. By being connected to the the actual dispatcher I'll know if that train is to go to Long beach L.A. or San Diego. All I need to do now is build 2 control panels. Many thanks. Cheers, Chris Perry.
Hi Chris,
Take any ideas you wish. The primary goal of this channel is to share. Thanks for your kind words..
Bloody impressive. Will be in the UK next May/June, any chance of a look, not as operator [probably a bit above my pay grade] just a look?
There's every chance. When we have the layout operational we will be inviting clubs and groups.
@@dattouk I am not a club, nor in a group, just me. I can make tea and will bring biscuits!
Pretty cool. Can your sensor actually detect the travel direction of the train or do you have to keep track of it in the software? Are you planning to do a video on the sensor technology itself?
It can't detect direction. there are two previous videos on the technology.
I've only recently started watching the progress of McKinley from the beginning so not up to date yet, but the amount of planning and engineering for this layout would put Network Rail to shame. Just a quick question, once you've added scenery and ballast how do you identify the location of the uncoupling points in the yards. May I suggest a realistic solution, which is 3 yellow painted sleepers, these are to denote fouling points usually but the idea has been used for decades and would blend with the scenery and be a good visual indicator for operators. Not sure how feasible that is with the uncoupling magnets you use. Anyway, keep up the fantastic work and look forward to watching the ongoing progress.
We have done something similar - A piece of finescale track painted white bedded down into the ballast. We intend to use coloured sleeper to show the locations of the RFID. I will include this logic in a future video. Thank you for your comments..
I did moan on a previous video saying will you please run some trains!!!So its fantastic to see some movement on your amazing wonderful railway....I live in Southern Ireland and would love to come over and see your railway 1 day.Would you ever do an open day once its safe todo so?Keep up the goodwork👍👍👍
We will do more "movements". Thanks for watching.
David,
Re.: McKinley's magnetic couplers, "The best laid plans of mice and men....."
But I do have a question about those coupler switches. Do you have any sort of brand name or ID number for those backlit switches? I'm certain they are a UK product. I'm equally certain I could, with your help, find a like switch here in the US for my layout.
As I rehab my layout I'm making limited purchases of RFID for high traffic areas. Currently I use QR readers at stock yard headends only. Then yard switchers need to manually up date the traffic managers software. About as aggravating as a disagreeable uncoupler.
Great job to you and your team... including that guy 📸 from Chadwick.😏
Jim
N.Y., U.S.A.
Hi Jim,
I asked Ian Hart, the uncoupler designer, and he wrote the following for you. If you need more info just ask...
Jim,
They are 19mm illuminated push buttons for AliExpress: T-Button Switches Store
www.aliexpress.com/item/4000027999336.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.15.2e9e3a00EigC0u
Ian
David, thank you for posting - YT would not let me post it over the last 4 days. Yet, I can now post here?
@@ianhart8364 My THANKS to you for the link.
Jim
G'Day David.
I'm really interested in getting a similar set up here for my self eventually for all of my rolling stock, so I am always pleased to see an update from you guys. Thanks
Now I did reply to you request in the other video of yours, but only today as I stated I work away a lot. I'll repost that reply here as well.
"David, I have tried over 6 times to give you this information on here and every time YT deletes my reply.
I must also apologies for my delay in replying but I work away from home up North of Western Australia on mine sites. I will be heading back again in 4 days time. Ok, think I have it beaten. Goto my channel (nothing there) and under the discussion tab are some links for you."
Hope that helps.
Found them.. Thanks Gibs...
Hi gents,
Very interesting stuff: lots of food for thought with occupancy detection.
One thing I would be really interested to know about is how well steam locomotive hauled trains perform on your helix. What is your ruling gradient? Curves within the helix? Maximum train length?
All the best,
Nick.
Hi Nick,
The gradient for the helix is 1 in 100. it is a descending Helix, so the curves don't cause the havoc they would on a rising helix (4th radius). The Hades yard is in effect a rising helix at the same grade of 1 in 100, but crucially it doesn't have the tight curves. The other factor, on which we will be publishing some videos shortly, is we add lead weight to the steamers. Quite a lot of it. We don't stop until the locomotives will pull 25 wagons or 8 coaches up a 1 in 100. Naughty but effective.
David
I don't know if you are going to do this but I got a crazy idea. Why not have a scanner at the entrance and exit of the yard and a hand held scanner and all the equipment has bar codes on it so you know what have left the yard and what is coming back into the yard and use the hand held scanner to setup the next train to get ready to move out. Also it would keep inventory on all your equipment.
Now watch this is probably what you are talking about.
We don't need to hold a scanner. They are built into the trackwork at strategic locations. hope you enjoyed the video.
When everything is up and running are you planning on simulating random train breakdowns or delays to give an extra challenges for the operators? You can’t expect british rail to actually be on time
I am playing with the idea of a points system and chance cards for different teams in future. So for example, if they attach a Merchant Navy Loco to a Manchester express - Thats -500 points. If they send a goods loco on an express that will be -100 points. If they get the train out on time +100 point. Thats just a daydream at present.
"If Carling did model railways"
They were my favourite adverts too.
Q: have experimented with RFID here, the high frequency ones I think you are using, works fine on some freight stock if kept away from metal ballast weights.
have you had luck using them on locomotives or are you only tagging wagons?
Hi David, I live in NZ and struggling to find decals with basic numbers for doing the same thing as you. Can you recommend a supplier please?
The decals for the vans are from Fox transfer. We use the FRH4004/9 - Prototype 9 inch Steam Cabside Numbering CREAM. They are also available in white I believe.
@@dattouk Thank you
Bloody brilliant but have you ever thought that you have gone too far with it ?
No not yet. It gets simpler once we have integrated the technology. What you are watching is akin to iPhone development team in 2007 trying to get the parts to work together. Once that is done, the user experience will be just great ..... and ... quite realistic.
Very nice. I'm looking to use RFID on my 'N' scale track. What type of readers do you use. And also are the tags used usable for N scale?
I have added the sourcing information for the products we use in the description. Our tags are too big for N-Gauge and I don't know what will work for you. Regards David
@@dattouk thank you for that. I was thinking of using the RFID's which they use for Animals. They are 7mm long and 1.8mm thick (round). I will do some testing with that.
Sorry if you have stated elsewhere, but how many coaches do you use in your passenger trains? Based on the size of your frieght trains I assume 10
Max coach length is 8 Mk1 or 7 Mk3 coaches. Max. train lengths at 96" or 2.4m with a bit of wiggle room.
which software do you use?
Hi Zoltan.. We built the user interface stuff ourselves using a database application. The RFID comes with wireless communication and links through an MQTT server. Once you have the data coming into a computer you have to build the rest.
This is more-or-less what Deutsche bahn in Germany use to train their signal operators. This is a great video on the training layout: th-cam.com/video/6TLcaJdsRr0/w-d-xo.html
Wow... You have spurred my ideas. Maybe I invite Network Rail down for a day.
Greetings from Oregon and the Columbia River Gorge Model Railway. I am looking at ways we can upgrade our railway with RFID technology similar to your system. A preliminary planning session called for 550 RFID antennas, which seems excessive. Is there a way I can contact you about your RFID system? I looked on your website but the contact us page appears to be broken.
I have sent an email to your club contact page.
Regards
David
I have added the souring web pages for the equipment we use in the description.
My brain hurts.
So that's part of what you are doing but the one more step is to control your inventory.
yes and also to plan movements of stock from A to B. The options become unlimited and interesting.