Nikon Buys RED: What Now?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มี.ค. 2024
- In this clip, Marques, Andrew, and David talk about Nikon buying RED.
Watch full episode: • You Can’t Sell Your Cy...
Shop the merch:
shop.mkbhd.com
Twitters/X's:
/ wvfrm
/ mkbhd
/ durvidimel
/ andymanganelli
/ adamlukas17
/ ellisrovin
Threads:
Waveform: www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast
Marques: www.threads.net/@mkbhd
Andrew: www.threads.net/@andrew_manga...
David Imel: www.threads.net/@davidimel
Adam: www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17
Instagram:
/ wvfrmpodcast
Shop the merch:
shop.mkbhd.com
Join the Discord:
/ discord
Music by 20syl:
bit.ly/2S53xlC
Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
As someone who has been deeply in the stills photography world for almost 20 years, it’s really interesting to see a discussion like this from more video-centric people. In stills, Nikon is a big player, and the Z9 and Z8 (which are practically the same camera in most ways) absolutely revitalized Nikon as a camera company. They are truly incredible machines and arguably two of the best cameras in the world of stills - and really brought video and AF capability head-to-head with even Sony. I’ve been telling people for years not to sleep on Nikon. One of the coolest things about Nikon mirrorless is the Z-mount you guys were making fun of for slotting in the opposite way. It is the largest and shallowest flange in the standard 35mm market, meaning you can adapt virtually any lens made by any manufacturer. Nikon is known for absolutely incredible lenses, and I’m very excited to see them do cine lenses. Of all the underdogs, I think Nikon now has more potential than any other brand to claw its way up and really, at least on some level, upset the video industry. Think about RED color science and raw compression on Nikon bodies… AND think about Nikon’s fantastic ASIC and AF on RED bodies.
Nikon should definitely not be slept upon, their turnaround over the past couple of years has been impressive and they seem to be doing a lot right, perhaps picking up on things their competitors aren't. Great new cameras, coupled with significant firmware updates (*cough* Sony), and an expanding lens line with a great mix of pro and more affordable (but still good) options, including third party lenses (*cough* Canon).
I feel like tech reviewers are always going to struggle with giving a real world experience with a number of devices out there. It's like they need to have the most hyped (sometimes, rightly so) in the forefront of their content.
@@dalitsomz Tech reviewers also have a somewhat skewed perspective because their work is all about creating videos.
Agree with all of this. Nikon has also been killing it with regular free software updates to the Z8/Z9 that are adding substantial new features.
@@mattsmith7991 For the past year, I had been wondering what Nikon would put in the Z9II. Now my best guess is an Expeed8 processor which can handle REDCODE Raw 8K120.
I don't think it's a stretch to say that the Z8 and Z9 are currently unrivaled as hybrid cameras. It records internally 12 Bit 8K/60p N-RAW, 4K/60p ProRes Raw, 10 Bit 4K 120p without needing a fan and with no glaring overheating issues. They also carved themselves out a nice niche in Wildlife photography with their selection of excellent big lenses.
Nikon's Zf and Zfc's are also commercially pretty successful, so I think the company has had a bit of a resurrection moment in the last 2-3 years.
Next level.. I wish these guys would have covered it and help blow it up.. the z8 is underrated af in the tech world
Nailed it. The Z9/Z8 is basically a repeat of their D3/D700 moment.
Problems is none of them know nothing of photography and the photography market
They are, just because these dudes don't know about them or know about all the Nikon gear and content, don't mean Nikon hasn't been doing great things currently and always 🙂
Plus being popular or not doesn't mean they haven't been selling like crazy, these dudes are CLUELESS 👎🏾
This is a podcast format, and I think they weirdly got a lot of details wrong when going over the basics of the story, but the thing I can’t, forgive is the continued slander of the McDonald’s Coffee woman. People use that as the perfect example of unnecessary lawsuits in America but if you look up the actual details of the story, it’s clear that it’s just the larger corporate world doing their absolute best to convince you that lawsuits like this are fraudulent, when in reality, this poor woman just wanted just enough money to cover her medical bills after being burned by coffee that was certifiably and dangerously hot to the point where she actually got McDonald’s to change their policy. She had like third-degree burns, and the only reason she sued them for more money was because they offered her like five dollars to start with.
Yes, the guys are talking about a lot of topics without knowing anything.
the real crime is going to McDonlds in the first place
It literally says in the podcast that it was a legitimate lawsuit that had merit. Always looking for a reason to moan I see!
@@MarcusGarveysGhost time stamp me
Yeah - I used to ignorantly call that a frivolous lawsuit before learning the details, and more damningly, McDonalds spending millions on marketing to writers and magazines to call it a frivolous lawsuit when in fact, there was no reason anyone should have been served a literally boiling hot cup of anything.
I'm surprised how much the whole cast got things wrong about Nikon and how well they're doing. Sure, they were behind on the video front, but that vastly improved with the Z8 and the Z9 - these are probably some of the best mirrorless hubrid cameras out there today. And they were always successful with their DSLRs for photos. Money wise, they are huge.
4:59 There is such a thing as lossless compression.
8:21 Nikon is doing very well. Check their financials before making such statements. Nikon is much more than just their imaging business. It seems like you are not aware of this. Having said that, according to their last financial statement the imaging business recorded a 41.2 billion yen operating profit. And this is not an exception either.
11:34 Incorrect. Tamron has the zoom ring in the same direction as Nikon (and Panasonic and Pentax btw). And the same used to be true for the focus ring as well. Though my 100-400 focus ring is opposite to Nikon. It's not petty, it's history. You want to make it easy for existing users to use new gear. And Nikon has been around for a long time, so they have many existing users.
12:56 Again, Nikon is doing very well. Check their financials before making such statements.
13:48 You seem to think you can command people to do things. That’s the biggest joke of the whole video. And that’s saying something, given all the details that you got wrong. I'm not "liking this clip". It's much too influencer-like, bordering on deceiving.
I thought there was lossless compression, isn't FLAC an example of that?
I was like, wtf really, are these tech youtubers? They seem to be wildly ignorant, with a ton of opinion.
The Nikon Z8 and Z9 had waiting lists for about half a year. They are not unpopular, they just have a different targeted audience than most other brands. (At least in Germany)
Source: I work in a photography shop in germany.
These influencers should stop talking about financial things. Nikon has been in the red in like once in 20 years. And it was a big restructuration like shutting down their Chinese manufacturing. Last year they had 14% of market share, but 24% revenue with the sale of the Z9 and Z8. So they made nearly same money as Sony and Canon.
But they aren’t pro cinema cameras.
@bene_eins1308 What would you say is the difference in audience between Nikon and other brands? Or the targeted audience of each brand?
The lack of research in this video is astounding. Nikon colour science is extremely well regarded (it's okay if you prefer canon, but for years nikon has been deemed better out the box. DxO for instance rated the d3200 apsc beginner sensor higher than the 5diii full frame pro sensor, because despite worse iso performance, it had much better colour accuracy metrics by a bigger margin).
Nikon lenses do not work the other way for law suit reasons, they have worked that way since the fifties.
The focus and zoom to infinity/further away in a clockwise fashion (when looking through the lens), some may say that's more logical (incidentally swarovski optics focus and zoom in the same rotational direction). It's not to be different, it's just how nikon engineers decided to standardise things.
And if I remember right (it has been a while though) pentax work the same way.
No one is copying anyone, or trying to be different on that front.
Nikon Z9 is probably the best mirrorless video camera. I'm a Sony user because my brain likes them most but Nikon was already doing impressive things
Yeah, the specs on the Z8/Z9 are absolutely stacked. And that Z mount is so large and shallow you can adapt virtually *any* lens to it.
I'm also a Sony user but Nikon has absolutely been on fire and I would totally get a future Z7 III with the same stacked 45MP sensor as the Z8/Z9 currently have... IF Nikon opens up their mount for third parties! Their better lenses are just too damn expensive.
@@Sundara229 It is more or less open, you have lots of the chinese and now Tamron, voiglander etc.
Professional film crew nerd alert!: The PL mount was developed by Arri in 1989, to replace "Arri Bayonet" and "Arri Standard" mounts, to allow larger rear optical elements for lenses. It became the de facto standard for almost all professional cinema cameras ( Panavision's lens mount is very similar but not compatible) Most professional digital cinema cameras now use the updated LPL or "Large PL" mount. Same engineering but 8mm larger in diameter.
Thanks. Have a feeling this guys spend a lot of time talking like in a bar instead of researching on the topic and then talk.😊
I didn't realise PL was so recent, I thought it was much older
Will also add, PL stands for "Positive Lock" It's far more secure than our RF, E or Z mounts where hold the lens in place by a little pin.
Excuse me, @offsideundo, but I need to correct you too : )
Unless I'm confused by mind games, PL-mount was developed in 1970s and introduced in early 1980s - firstly in 16mm cameras, for 35mm film slightly later. But legendary Arriflex 35BL III already has the PL in 1982 (maybe earlier). And in 1989 the mount was adopted for 65 mm film
Nikon makes tons of money from selling specialized manufacturing equipment to the semiconductor industry
And medical devices.
And while some TH-camrs think they're not selling well, they're making so much money with the camera division that they can keep investing basically all income from other fields into new stuff while the cameras keep their overall profits up
Do you know the feeling when you see a video, but you are just too tired to comment or correct all the half right half wrong stuff you just heard?
Love you guys. But this was a bad one.
What did you expect from those guys anyway 😂
Was thinking the same! 😂
What's wrong in this video? I dont know tbh
Man I was thinking the exact same thing.. I forgot sometimes that while they’re in tech they don’t know EVERYTHING.. I didn’t realise how little they knew about Nikon
Explain what was incorrect then.
Dude please do your homework you guys got so many things wrong in this video, you gus dropped the ball on this one badly!
Please explain
@@James-es1fg Their explanation of what compressed Raw is was mostly wrong however the interpretation that the patent was too broad is correct.
They were also wrong about how Nikon was doing financially, its been doing quite well for the past few years. The way they talk about Nikon cameras is also just out of date. Nikon didn't have a cinema camera line which meant that it, along with Panasonic, made the best photography cameras that could also do video with all the video specs. With Sony and Canon you had to get video specific cameras in order to get those specs which were often pricey and those cameras still were missing some strange things.
Nikon is pretty clearly on an upswing and they seem to be repeating stuff that has been out of date for a while.
The mistake many make about Nikon is that they think, Nikon doesn't know anything about video, but they were the first company to release a DSLR camera that shot video, with the D90 (though it was not particularly good), The D800 was able to record external video, well before the 5Dmk3, and it had internal autofocus (not particularly good), which the 5Dmk3 did not have. Now this is not to say that Nikon was better than Canon, as Canon was able to implement video much better into their cameras, than Nikon.
It should also be noted that Whilst Canon and Sony' camera sales are much higher than Nikon's (Sony about 26%, Canon 44%) Nikon is in third place with sales of around 11% in 2023. It should also be noted that many Nikon owners held off of updating their gear with the Z6/Z7, as they didn't think the system was that good (with some going over to other manufacturers), but with the Nikon Z9, Z8 and ZF, Nikon has really started to find their niche and have been releasing class leading cameras.
I was surprised with so much nonsensical speculation, factual mistakes and lack of preparation. I used to look up to these chats to inform myself about things I’m not proficient in. Now that I saw how you treat something I understand, it makes me wonder about how much I can trust your other content. You can do better!
1000% this.
Really disappointed in the lack of research or technical knowledge on display here. Almost nothing in the whole discussion was correct. And they use these cameras daily… for years.
This was exactly how I felt. I generally enjoy the Waveform discussions, but this felt really weird. The guy who picked up the FM2 Titan in Japan though, good for him. That's Nikon grail status right there.
As an audio guy, I've always had the same feeling every time they talk about audio products, especially regarding the sound quality. The Sony WH headphones lineup is a good example. As tech reviewers they review the capabilities of the headphones as well as the sound, and they recommend them for being good at both. The features of those Sony headphones are great, I fully agree (I even have my own pair for that reason) but they sound like garbage, yet barely any tech reviewer actually realizes that. They just hear a lot of bass and then they like it haha.
This was a bit of a tangent but you get my point I hope.
You can‘t actually l. Same with his car content and some other stuff we saw. Marques is very good at sounding smart because he honestly thinks he knows.
Lots of false information. RED sued Nikon, not the other way around. RED already licenses to many camera manufacturers the patent.
Better listen first before talking.
You cant say the Z8 and Z9 aren't popular. They've grown their market share by greater than 6% off the back of the Z8/9 and Zf.
5:00 Compressed RAW isn't an oxymoron at all, lossless compression exists and is used in at the very least most stills cameras (admittedly "compressed RAW" also refers to lossy RAW compression but the existence of lossless RAW still validates the term)
Yep, I was going to comment the same. Compressed can be lossy or lossless.
He also said that RAW contains frequencies of light the the human eye can't even perceptive - which is completely wrong as all those get filtered before they hit the sensor either by a IR/UV filter (which is what you remove it you want to capture into IR spectrum) as the first layer and the color filter array, before the light hits the foto-diodes.
Most Nikon sales come from their glass/lenses. Nikon is the only photography company that manufactures glass. They also make the glass that other camera brands use for their lenses. Not just lenses for DSLR and Mirrorless but from microscopes, lasers, stuff in space, lenses that make computer chips and sensors.
Hearing this chapter just broke my brain and ears... maybe next time invite an expert in the topic or a Nikon-related person...
Marquis Nikon produces the best lenses of all brands, that's why we buy them. It's also the one camera brand that has JPEG color profiles worth taking straight out of the camera and sending straight to print. Most of what's in Nikon cameras is really built for the direct to broadcast, medical, science, and landscape fields.
Compressed RAW is lossless compression, mostly, like a ZIP file. ZIP files need to reduce file size without losing any data, which is what Compressed RAW wants to do too.
Lossy Compression is what MP3, JPEG, MPEG4(AVC), and HEVC is. Where as much unnecessary data is thrown away as possible, while retaining what is considered necessary for human consumption of the media.
The Nikon Z8 is a BEAST of a hybrid video camera. Phenomenal specs that trumps what Canon and Sony are doing in there’s at the moment.
I think Z8, Z9, Zf and zfc are so well received and popular among photographers. And Zf is now still hard to buy one. It's interesting that there are some TH-camrs said they are not popular. Turns out David is another analogue hipster which don't do their own research and know nothing about modern digital mirrorless industries...... Consider Nikon is now having one of the most completed lenses line up in all of Full frame mirrorless brand. I do think Nikon is having a huge potential in still and also video. This clip is one of the worse of all these years, they got all basic information and numbers wrong. But it's relieved that all the comments point out the problems, clearly they didn't do their homework also the resarch on Nikon and how the company perform in 2023.
You should honestly try Nikon. I've got the Z6II and the Z8 and they are both awesome. The Z8 is great for video 👍
Keep in mind that Nikon has been selling cameras for a very long time. Their long time users would go nuts if the lens mechanics were changed. They certainly aren’t going to do it just because other camera companies do it a different way.
And as far as dials, AF indicators, and lens rings, you can reverse them in the settings.
So many facts wrong in this!
I am amazed that Nikon Z8/Z9 are considered as underdogs. By far, these both are the best hybrid cameras out there. An as far as still image quality is concerned, I bet other brands can beat that. And I laugh at the fact that you call Nikon weird because the lenses attach in the opposite direction. Only a Nikon user knows why he uses a Nikon.
it's crazy how little y'all know about Nikon, try the z8 and let us know what you think about it.
How many movies have been made with any of the Nikon range?
They just don't use Nikon so why should they know that much the cameras
@@domehouse79when you speak about a product you know very little of you risk being inaccurate a lot simple. This happen here.
@@Amphibaxspeaking on a topic you know little of will always have inaccurate information.
@@domehouse79 This question is a gotcha-one symptomatic of current day discourse on social media 😒 Z8, which sports a body more suitable for videography, was launched not even a year ago - way short of the production span of blockbuster movies. Also, their lenses are optimized for photography; think sharpness over focus breathing and no manual focus gearing. What really matters: How well do their AF, sensors, processors and codecs support video needs (really well). They bring the financial and personell resources to really up the game on the video market. What they have been missing in video street cred was acquired with RED. That is the actual news here: A new and very potent player has just emerged in the video world. Analogy from a different field: Imagine, Ukraine's military (lots of street cred, little resources) was suddenly backed by China. That is pretty much the equivalent of what has happened to the video market.
Z8, Z9, and Zf are all selling very well.
No
Right, and almost every publication that gives a camera of the year award gave it to the Z8 last year.
Nikon also makes machines to make the computer chips we all love.. not a very informed video this time. What happened? ;)
I also thought it was interesting how little knowledge there was from the entire panel about Nikon. I figured at least someone on it would have a bit more of a finger on the pulse there. Nikon has been a top-tier player in stills for almost a century, but even their most recent Z9/Z8 cameras were huge head turners with impressive video capabilities. The Z8 was basically every industry “camera of the year” winner in 2023.
Unfortunately this tends to be common in commentary videos about Nikon. Easier to repeat old jokes and stereotypes about the company than to do a little research and actually acknowledge the well-reviewed work they've done in the Z line in recent years.
They often have no idea what they're talking about.
@@seanmolincreativeIndeed, Indeed. Nikon has been around for a long time, the only time when they started taking a down turn was when Sony and then Canon had a head start in mirrorless tech, while Nikon was winning awards for the D850... if Nikon would have launched the D850 with mirrorless tech, they would have kept their place at the top.
Z9, Z8 & Zf have turned the Nikon camera division "downside up"! Their competitive tech was delayed until Z9 that's why they were legging behind for 4-5 years in early days of mirrorless.
If you look at the moves they made during that time regarding their manufacturing facilities and such... They were playing 4d chess and setting up to destroy the industry. Took a step back to launch way forward.
Nikon lens direction originated from the film days when they produced SLR bodies and were the first to get metering right as well as display it on the inside of the viewfinder. It had something to do with those old lenses that had the bunny ears and you had to connect it to the metering coupler. Nikon just left it as is once they figured out the other design of adding the coupler to the lens mount ring that would connect to a notch on the side of the lens mount. Now their lenses are all electronic. I think everyone switched to electronics.
The main reason for not changing was lens compatibility aside from metering.
PL stands for positive lock and it was developed and is owned by Arri.
what a ridiculous take to suggest that Nikon would lead to a decrease in quality. Nikon makes, and has made, fantastic quality optics and cameras for decades.
TH-camrs.... Guys the world does not just exist in your bubble. Nikon is used by about an equal amount pro Photographers as Canon, just maybe not youtubers.
For Arri vs Red. Netflix practically strongarmed the industry into using only RED cameras to qualify for their productions. There is are many stories like that.
Most Oscars award winning movies are historically shot on Arri, yet a lot of productions outside that bubble uses RED heavily.
Color science on Arri is like from a different world than Red.
Fun fact: Jarred land, CEO of Red Digital Cinema said in an interview that Red has already licensed internal compressed raw to all of the camera manufacturers. He went on to say that if your favorite camera manufacturer is not offering internal compressed raw in their cameras, it’s because they have simply chosen not to. So now what?
Another fun fact: the reason Arri cameras appear to have more dynamic range is because they have a patent on dual exposure/frame capture. So you can be mad at Arri now for preventing the rest of the camera industry for being able to shoot dual exposures to increase dynamic range.
That’s the first I’ve heard of either of those things.
Now I’m mad at Fuji for not giving us ICR
"they have already licensed" well that implicates a lot, like they might have reach deals which involve x with y amount of volume that companies might simply be not willing to pay until consumers demand
That's not entirely true. Arri cameras can definitely shoot in extended dynamic range modes (which uses some sort of dual exposure tech), but that's a niche special trick that eats up data like crazy. Arri cameras have by far the best sensors in the industry and far outpace RED, Sony, and everyone else when it comes to true dynamic range. It's not even close.
ARRI just has way better engineers and color scientist. Have you even ever used an ARRI Camera ? There's no double exposure. (Alexa 35 does have a mode to reduce noise that's using a kind of double exposure but that's completely different)
That's actually what RED is doing with their HDRx and now Extended Highlights. What the hell are you talking about ??
I think you know exactly what I’m talking about... It’s dual gain. The sensor has split pixels that capture the image at two exposure levels simultaneously. Not what Red does, as it would violate Arri’s patent. See how that works? I merely simplified the initial comment. This comment section is not the place to unpack Arri’s whitepaper.
Oowee I hope they do a follow up to this segment, bc this was sooo bad. Take it a step further and pick up a few Z8s, Nikon glass, and get to know the current system.
Whoa. I was terrified after that outro I could only like.
I already am subscribed 😢
11:36 No, everyone else focuses and zoom's backwards.
ive been a Nikon user from the first days of Z (6) and after 5-6 years i still hate it
@@maygarland6123 I've never used a z6 but on the zf I was able to reverse the direction of focusing. I don't own any zooms so I can't comment if those are reversible, and obviously the mount direction isn't reversible but I don't think that's a big deal.
Compressed Raw is not an oxymoron. The goal of raw is to get a non debayered image, not an uncompressed image. You want to have control on the debayering process for the best color grading possible. This has nothing to do with compression.
Another thing I can see on why Nikon was buying RED is: Global Shutter Sensor Technology.
Sony just announced the first ever global shutter sensor in a mirrorless camera (a9III) which has a lot of advantages such as being able to shoot on any external flash with any high shutter speed, no more rolling shutter, no more flicker etc...
Compressed raw can be using lossless compression. That’s what’s most interesting.
It boggles the mind how they seem to think they know their stuff, when they don’t.
Nikon never really was doing bad, and as for where the cash to buy RED, they used the pandemic to relocate factories and use those losses as tax write offs whilst consolidating production. Maybe now they'll have access to produce their own sensor and quit relying on Sony. Also Nikon sells well within working photographers, also Nikon colours are the superior ones by far. Maybe they'll adopt a mix of colour science.
Right. Not to mention even the *huge* success of the Z9/Z8 really shored up their consumer camera division. The Z8 was the “camera of the year” by almost every publication last year, so I’m surprised none of these guys really knew anything about them.
As far as what’s to come, though, I’d be super excited to see the Z mount on RED cameras, too. It’s the largest and shallowest flange of any 35mm mount, so you can adapt anything… plus I’m drooling at the idea of Nikkor cine lenses.
@@seanmolincreative Nikkor Cine glass will be lit for sure
Nikon Does have their own sensor, you are talking about fab which sony is a big player, even arri senors are made there so it's a different business plus nikon and red merger will definitely make canon sweat, cause they were the one restricting and make really only expensive and exclusive glass and camera
@@saidharshini4187 they've been using Sony sensors for well over a decade though.
@@saidharshini4187 Right. A lot of people dismiss Nikon as "they don't even make their own sensors, Sony does," and that is very disingenuous. Nikon designs their sensors, Sony fabs them, and there have been sensors Nikon designed that Sony was "jealous" of and has licensed to use themselves. When the D800 came out, that 36mp sensor was groundbreaking. Nikon had a 1-year exclusivity on that sensor before Sony was allowed to use it (and they did).
Nikon get compressed raw and red dont need too spent boatloads of cash licensing RF Mount anymore
tbf considering it is a japanese company, it very likely is Ni-kon rather than nai-kon. Yeah their name is ニコン, which is ni-kon
Yeah, also it's name coming from Nippon, which you do not say like Naippon :D
"...Nippon Kōgaku Kōgyō Kabushikigaisha (日本光学工業株式会社 "Japan Optical Industries Corporation"), the company was renamed Nikon Corporation, ..., spelled as "Nikkon"..."
(Wiki)
@@shrinkingshrimp I just looked up the current company name and didn't look up the history lol, but yeah makes perfect sense
There just Americans.. did you expect them to be aware of other people’s vernaculars.
@@coolfish911 Pretty much all of Europe says it a third way, NICK-ON. It's extremely regional, this isn't just an American thing.
The outro always wants me to come back 😂
Apple famously sued RED to challenge this patent and lost.
They used the wrong approach. Nikon used GenniTech’s approach and got good results.
I'm surprised they made a clip of this because I remember listening to this part in the podcast and just knowing they'd be slated in the comments lol
The reason behind Nikon's acquisition of Red is the flash distance weakness found in competitors like the PL mount cameras with a flange focal depth of 52.00 mm and FZ-Mount 18mm. Nikon aims to develop a mount with an exceptionally short flange distance, providing a telecentric advantage that will be hard to match. If Nikon can achieve a flange distance below 12mm or even 10mm in the Red cinema camera, it will be truly remarkable as it will allow for seamless adaptation of practically any lens to the Red cinema cameras. Ultimately, Canon and Sony face a challenging future, while Red and Nikon have a promising outlook.
interesting to note that the guy who started RED was also the guy who started Oakley (the eyewear brand). so he's 2 out of 2 now for amazing exits.
Redhead raw. I agree.
Compressed raw does not mean it is lossy by default. Eg: my Sony camera does lossless raw compression (and lossy modes too).
Is the compressed RAW lossy or lossless?
Lossless
I expect you all to be at NAB. lol. I think there will be a positive outcome from the acquisition. The MRMC division and RED will probably integrate even further. Nikon may go after Atomos next.
What happens with RED's native Cannon RF mount now? I really don't see the industry being happy about a Nikon mount. Though I guess you can convert it to PL same as we do with the RF and never think about it.
Nikon Z Lenses are one of if not the best lenses out there. Their Cameras used to be crap, bit their lenses sure weren‘t.
Maybe they keep the RED brand as a separate thing and they keep the support for RF.
Love my Nikon Z7!!
The real question I'm curious to have answered is what's going to happen with Red having a license to use Canon's RF lens mount, because I really don't think Canon is going to be super-keen on Nikon now holding that license.
Exactly, this is the one concern that no one is talking about. Most of my lenses are Canon RFs for my R5, Komodo and Raptor X. I guess worst case, there will be RF mount adapters for whatever they decide to switch to.
Loads of info was not correct here at all. Not just the details being wrong but the general story is wrong Red sued Nikon over a firmware update that enabled internal compressed raw after the camera came out. Nikon countered by suing saying Red's patent was invalid.
I say take down this video if you're not going to correct it. There's way better videos on TH-cam explaining this. I don't want someone who wants to know what's going on watching this video and getting the wrong info.
I second this. This video should be deleted. This just shows how much information and even the general understanding of the issue is incorrect.
Fun fact for all those questioning Nikon’s cinematic/video credentials: in the 1970s they had pretty much the best Super8 motion film camera on the market, the R10 Super.
It's not Ny-kon. It's Nee-kon.
This "Ny-kon"pronounciation bugged me the most in this video.
Nike-on. Just do it 😂
It’s regional. You hear it NIH, NYE, and NEE all over the globe. But yes, in Japan it’s NEE - but like, it’s never going to change so don’t waste your breath.
Both is correct and used by people from Nikon it just depends on where in the World you are.
Nikon Corporation officially blesses all regional pronunciations; they are all correct in Nikon's eyes.
Not that it matters but LegalEagle did a good take on why the McDonald’s coffee lawsuit was legit. Also, the Stanford Prison Experiment was massively influential and not as presented. More at 11.
The Stanford Prison Experiment was influential, but it was also severely flawed and since has been refuted
Random thought, I would really like to see you Marques in a comedy family-friendly movie 😂😂😂😂😂😂
The concept was patentable, the problem is that there was an issue with the way that red filed the patent, related to the timing of the filing. This makes their patent invalid. I'm not really sure why Nikon bought red, but I guess we will find out in the coming years.
I believe you can set the Nikon lenses to focus/zoom in the other direction of you'd like. I understand that is one more step and is a bit annoying for people who are used to the other direction as the default though
You can alter the focus direction on a Nikon Z lens but not the zoom because it is mechanical.
its lossless versus lossy compression.
I'm still laughing at the fishing rod example 😂
They forgetting Peter Jackson's The Hobbit was shot with 48 RED Epics.
this reminds me of the time when a Chicago baes company Aloha Poke. tried to copy right Aloha Poke within their logo / trademake.. the poke company was trying to cash in on the 2 Hawaiian. preventing anyone from using it. even in Hawaii
I'm not an expert on this subject, but I just wish they release compressed RAW to the public
What would they gain from doing that?
Respect
I foresee Nikon licensing it out. They’ll let others use it, but make a few bucks in the meantime.
@@seanmolincreative I mean I can respect that
8:55 Nikon publicly releases their financial information - it's the first result if you search for it. Their imaging products reports 18.6% profit margin for FY2023, and they specifically note that, "Profit grew substantially on increased sales volumes of mid/high-end cameras..." I think that means that Nikon are doing rather quite well financially.
Red Raw, that got got to hurt.
Love you guys but most of this is not correct
An advice before making a video and talking about an issue due an analysis and research on facts. First point. Fuji image division is profitable and only 1/3 of the revenue comes from Instax the other 2/3 from professional camera. Besides this Fuji makes Cinema and Broadcast lenses for professional use. Regarding Nikon, their camera are used more by professional photographers who do studio, fashion, potrait and wedding photography. Third Nikon has a huge reserve of cash hence the could buy RED. Problem is that none of you are photographers.
IMO, Nikon makes the best glass out there so I think this is a win for them if they start using Nikon lenses with Red cameras.
If RED had only had a ridiculous patent, it would not have been an issue, but they actually filed lawsuits, so even if they hadn't meant to be so vague, they leaned into it
I am surprised Marques participated in a TH-cam video where none of the participants have any idea of the technical or legal issues. His videos are usually much better researched and not just 3 young people wildly speculating in a room. I still respect him, but I would suggest he avoid these other too jokers in the future.
Probably going to bring back the Red Phone.
Saint internet. The levels.
Like when are we getting the MKBHD x jay z tech building.
Like the casino thing lame. Like there so many more building components in like every mkb.
Also like can we get frisbee tournaments via Paris Olympics and freestyle skiing.
Cause like it’s not like your busy or anything.
Question: Should Nikon keep RED's color science? however good it maybe one of the main things people cite when choosing ARRI over RED is ARRI's superior natural looking colors. Now Nikon had that ARRI like colors, they can do it.. so should they do ARRI like colors or keep RED colors?
The level of errors they have in this clip is such, that I would not take any advice from them. Nikon has very.... Arrri like colors LOL. But my guess, red is quite established in the high end video and cinema/series market. Having a complete RED workflow would be very good to give nikon mirrorless a credibility a very good video cameras. No one is laughthing at a z6. z8. or z9 with Redraw, Red log, gama color space tec. You can work on same footage from a z8 to a 40k raptor.
I liked this clip.
If Nikon democratized RAW internal video finally and puts it in affordable mirrorless camera it'd be interesting....
"like this clip" lol
Oh my lord I liked the clip 🫨
A lot of misinformation. They never did their research. They should stick to their little phone cameras.
Nikon was never on it's death bed... The Z series were not popular in the TH-cam space, but out in the real world, almost all professional photographers I've worked with, were shooting on Nikon cameras.. All they had to do, is send a few cameras to influencers here and there, sponsor a few videos, and they are up for the races... Kinda what they finally did.. Nikon Zf, and Z8 are showing constantly in my feed right now, and they are not even that new LOL! And to be fair, they deserve the spotlight.. everything they do lately is done right. Their S lenses have no compromises (even the cheaper f/1.8 ones), they are sharp as hell, corrected for breathing out of the factory, they are silent, weather sealed, have linear MF, even tho they are focus by wire, and you can even adjust the degrees of the rotation to achieve infinity. No overheating, fast sensors with almost no rolling shutter, jaw-dropping frame rates with no crops, oversampled and binned options, internal ProRES and RAW, and still somehow the internet jokes about using a Nikon. The only thing they seem to suck at, is releasing a successor to the Z6 line, which is the sweet spot (price wise) for a hybrid mirrorless, and will be their most popular camera. Why they are so slow to push out what people want is just beyond me tbh.
Agree with the other comments here that there seems to be a vast under appreciation for z8/z9 in this clip.
Insane. What!?
The way RED got the patent was they said they found a way to compress video through a “bayer filter”, problem is all cameras use a bayer filter. So they in essence patented raw 4k compression with the fundamental way modern cameras work.
But from the non-tech savvy perspective, it sounds like they did something new.
I had a feeling they'd deliberately phrased the patent to wind up broader than it should have been
Except Fuji and Sigma, they don't use bayer filter.
Just to be clear; RED sued Nikon for illegally copying its data compression and applying it within a firmware update (Z9 2.0) and Nikon snapped back and challenged the veracity of RED’s patents, so the case was ultimately Dismissed.
I liked the clip
Nikon cameras and lenses are well built and last for a long time.
I think the most important thing here is that each company has its format for a RAW file. RED make compression for theirs and patented against all formats. That makes zero sense.
Loved the way Marques said "Like this clip" and that expression 😮
Old photo shooter here - at 6:25 - YES! RED managed to patent an IDEA - not a specific tech. That meant, Sony, Panasonic, Canon - NO ONE could EVER develop their OWN compressed RAW algorithms, and it's gone on for 10-plus years. Can you IMAGINE the better and better compressed RAW algorithms that COULD have been developed? So, yeah, Nikon doesn't HAVE a video camera division, so they put ALL the bells and whistles into their stills cameras. And they DID release the firmware update that included internal recording of compressed RAW to PICK a fight with RED. That was very much on purpose.
Now, Nikon is a hundred year old company that prides itself on listening to its customers. They don't come out with a new camera every 20 minutes like Sony - they are few and far between, and every single new camera is a response to complaints and suggestions, well tested and implemented, and the buyer can COUNT on it being a dependable WORKHORSE. It's not a willy-nilly purchase - you're getting this to do JOBS.
Journalists are asked to get video while they're out in the middle of nowhere, and they can't bring 2 sets of equipment - so the stills camera IS their video camera as well. And in order to have great color science, but smaller file sizes to deal with, in the middle of nowhere...?
RED should have NEVER been granted that patent. It's holding an entire industry back, and I am betting Nikon will simply open it up to everyone else.
whoever moaned during the outrooo...... :P
Even I always record raw
It was Nikons plan all along to buy Red. They took Red to court to beat them down and to be able to get paperwork on the company so they could plan their purchase plan…
Think ahead fellas. There is nothing ‘Stupid, Petty or Dumb” about it. It was genius.
Nii-Kon in Japan, Ni-Kon in US
Canon has had Cinema Raw Light internally for a while tho
i like this clip