IMHO they pay extra for -kVar(capacitive reactive power/energy, chinese LED lights? electronics power supply?). Here in Poland if you have a +40kW tariff they are checking your cos(P/S, how much you are shifting current) and tg(Q/P, which way you are shifting current, PF Lagging/inductive character of the load, or PF Leading/capacitive character of the load). If "you are inductive" they charge you only for some +kVar(only when tg Q/P is >0,4; PF Lagging
For these boards they really need to make you like yellow plastic fuse carriers that’s fully cover everything and can be sealed in place but a very obvious that there’s no fuse in so there’s not live parts left
This is certainly cool data. As an HVAC Controls tech for a USA university, the most concerning thing for me is the power export/generation of the mech panel. Why are the motor VFDs set to brake and not coating on deceleration? For the lighting, looking at the overnight Light Load, are the LEDs plug and forget retrofit? Or are the ballests taken out of the circuit like proper? Those transformers must be BUZZING!! 😂😂
Was talking to an ex electrical linesman who worked in Victoria, Australia. He said that in the past, the power authority had a lot problems with electricians wiring dairy farms with ALL the load on a single phase, at a number of farms. This was pulling one of the phases down in that area, with very unequal loading. Electricians refused to believe that they were doing it wrong. To be fair, in rural Australia most properties were single phase, single line and electricity was a new thing.
Logging the solar generation directly would have helped to confirm if it was generating at near perfect 1.0 PF and thus the inverter itself ok. When the load and generation are closely matched, the PF values can vary wildly as it swings in the balance between import and export. The overnight load PF looked generally ok, so it's probably not an issue with the base loads themselves.
Yeah for sure, we was only asked to get KWH across a week but seeing how the PF was after a week I wish I logged the solar and the mains separately too!
Data is cool!!!!! Those increases to closer to 1 power factor are probably heaters. Motors and capacitors will both lower power factor unless of course you have them balanced and cancel out. But seeing the times and increase in demand too, probably water heaters. That board with the horrendous PF, that was the board with all the LED lights correct? Cheap, no PF correcting LEDs will have the worst PF of any device. I doubt any single inverter is doing all that, but easy enough to turn off devices and watch the PF to find out. And I know some places have more lights on inside during the day, underground than at night. And kudos to wearing leathers over the rubber gloves. So many fckuers wear the rubbers without protectors and without the leathers, it just ruins and almost makes the gloves useless. Even class 3, 30kV gloves, I see so many wearing without the leather protectors not realizing one strand of wire will go right through the rubber gloves. Anyway, rant off. Happy to see the leather protectors and all those numbers from power loggers! Stay safe!
I don't know whether there's anything official on it and not an electrician, but wouldn't it be better/easier/safer to install the panels from the bottom upwards instead of top down, especially when wearing PPE and balancing screws on drivers so if it falls it's more likely to end up on the floor instead of in the board.
There is a little gap at the bottom of the last panel, so if that goes on first and you drop a screw it ends up under there you need to remove the panel again, that’s was my thinking anyways it doesn’t really matter 👍🏼
Generally yes, never open circuit an energized CT. But I believe those were Rogowski coils and those are safe to disconnect while the primary is still connected. Plus a lot of power logging devices will ether use the Rogowski coils for ease of installation or if actual CTs they will have internal resistors or MOVs to limit open circuit voltage. But your everyday CT, correct, never open circuit the secondary when primary is still energized.
Nice electrical sleuthing. Unfortunately now the way to progress is to look at the total incoming supply and establish what the pf there is or you are getting into more sophisticated wave for monitoring on that board, but that still isn't going to tell you what is happening at the incoming supply.
Great videos, really interesting! How does the metering work there, I thought when there is a BNO like this appears to be with the Ryefield board, that is all pre-meter, then the individual flats and the LL supply all have their own meters, is that right? If so, I wonder if the LL is being billed for the EV use on their meter, is billing the users, but isn't taking that out of the service charge calculations so is getting double bubble on it
Yeah I’m suspicious of the EV billing also, I believed there is an upfront meter and then all the flats are metered, so LL should be total - tenants if that makes sense 👍🏼
@@residualelectrical Ok, in that case could the tenants be being measured in kWh on their meters, but the primary meter is being billed in kVA, so that is then getting hit with all the power factor issues that would not be billed to the individual tenants? Or maybe a tenant has bypassed their meter somewhere if they are in their individual units!
@@residualelectrical I manage a very small commercial building, and one of the intakes has a 100A 3-phase head, and off that, there is a three phase meter for one tenant, the two separate single phase meters for two others, one of them needs a meter swap which will take them all offline, and when speaking to UKPN they suggested I may want to re-jig it so I become a BNO so the that the intake goes into a Ryefield board I manage, and then the individual meters come off that, but with no metering between the service head and the new Ryefield board, this is only a 100A supply, so maybe when it is 400A or whatever you have there it's different (I am not an electrician!)
Leather protectors to protect the insulating rubber from damage. You are required to wear them over any rubber insulating gloves, although way too many people just wear the rubber insulating gloves and no protectors thinking that's ok. Until a strand of wire pokes through the rubber and lights you up.
I thought that was the reason. Many thanks. Take a look at the Shelly products. Amazing way to track usage etc for small commercial/industrial/domestic for a budget solution which is cost effective.
@@brianoneill350 I actually have a bunch of Sonoff / Wemos devices flashed with Tasmota I use to monitor building loads and tempuratures. I converted the Sonoffs to use CTs instead of passing all the current through the unit itself. Then have an AWS server running an MQTT broker, Node-Red, InfluxDB and Grafana to log and make all the screens. There are other ways too, like Home Assistant, but last I checked you had to run a local server for Home Assistant and I have devices spread out across my area, so using a remote server was better. I also set this up 5 year ago and for sure things have changed, but this still works for what I need.
IMHO they pay extra for -kVar(capacitive reactive power/energy, chinese LED lights? electronics power supply?).
Here in Poland if you have a +40kW tariff they are checking your cos(P/S, how much you are shifting current) and tg(Q/P, which way you are shifting current, PF Lagging/inductive character of the load, or PF Leading/capacitive character of the load).
If "you are inductive" they charge you only for some +kVar(only when tg Q/P is >0,4; PF Lagging
Thank you so much for explaining about the upfront fuse. Really appreciate the knowledge you have and share.
No worries! Glad it’s been helpful!
Add to that Mike, good tip on the fusing info.👌👌 Downside of living next to a sub.
For these boards they really need to make you like yellow plastic fuse carriers that’s fully cover everything and can be sealed in place but a very obvious that there’s no fuse in so there’s not live parts left
Yeah, that’s a great shout to be fair!
Amazing comprehension on the science as well as the practical. We could all learn a thing or two from you man. Keep up the good work!
Thanks man very kind!
This is certainly cool data. As an HVAC Controls tech for a USA university, the most concerning thing for me is the power export/generation of the mech panel. Why are the motor VFDs set to brake and not coating on deceleration? For the lighting, looking at the overnight Light Load, are the LEDs plug and forget retrofit? Or are the ballests taken out of the circuit like proper? Those transformers must be BUZZING!! 😂😂
Great video Mike
Was talking to an ex electrical linesman who worked in Victoria, Australia. He said that in the past, the power authority had a lot problems with electricians wiring dairy farms with ALL the load on a single phase, at a number of farms. This was pulling one of the phases down in that area, with very unequal loading. Electricians refused to believe that they were doing it wrong. To be fair, in rural Australia most properties were single phase, single line and electricity was a new thing.
Great video like always my fellow sparkie brother
Interesting video series. It would be interesting to see it on a domestic single phase with solar and see the difference.
Logging the solar generation directly would have helped to confirm if it was generating at near perfect 1.0 PF and thus the inverter itself ok. When the load and generation are closely matched, the PF values can vary wildly as it swings in the balance between import and export. The overnight load PF looked generally ok, so it's probably not an issue with the base loads themselves.
Yeah for sure, we was only asked to get KWH across a week but seeing how the PF was after a week I wish I logged the solar and the mains separately too!
The shit power factor at night is probably a lot of cheap led bulb drivers and different low power electronics that adds up
Sure, but it’s a lot better than during the day time!
Data is cool!!!!! Those increases to closer to 1 power factor are probably heaters. Motors and capacitors will both lower power factor unless of course you have them balanced and cancel out. But seeing the times and increase in demand too, probably water heaters.
That board with the horrendous PF, that was the board with all the LED lights correct? Cheap, no PF correcting LEDs will have the worst PF of any device. I doubt any single inverter is doing all that, but easy enough to turn off devices and watch the PF to find out. And I know some places have more lights on inside during the day, underground than at night.
And kudos to wearing leathers over the rubber gloves. So many fckuers wear the rubbers without protectors and without the leathers, it just ruins and almost makes the gloves useless. Even class 3, 30kV gloves, I see so many wearing without the leather protectors not realizing one strand of wire will go right through the rubber gloves.
Anyway, rant off. Happy to see the leather protectors and all those numbers from power loggers!
Stay safe!
Thanks man, I agree!
I do love the CA stuff.
It’s nice kit for sure!
Dudes got a bitcoin farm in the loft
😂😂😂
Nice work man 👍🏼 have a look at slotted split screwdrivers, they work really well at wedging into slotted screws so you can work one handed.
I think Klein do one? Always thought it looked cool!
Love the videos, keep up the good work, you say “yer” so much 😂
My bad, I’m terrible for filling gaps with umm’s or yea’s 🤦🏼♂️ thanks for tuning in!
Awesome work mate 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
I don't know whether there's anything official on it and not an electrician, but wouldn't it be better/easier/safer to install the panels from the bottom upwards instead of top down, especially when wearing PPE and balancing screws on drivers so if it falls it's more likely to end up on the floor instead of in the board.
There is a little gap at the bottom of the last panel, so if that goes on first and you drop a screw it ends up under there you need to remove the panel again, that’s was my thinking anyways it doesn’t really matter 👍🏼
Solar will make your power factor look bad. Also not a good idea to disconnect the CT from the logger while it is connected to a live circuit.
Generally yes, never open circuit an energized CT. But I believe those were Rogowski coils and those are safe to disconnect while the primary is still connected. Plus a lot of power logging devices will ether use the Rogowski coils for ease of installation or if actual CTs they will have internal resistors or MOVs to limit open circuit voltage. But your everyday CT, correct, never open circuit the secondary when primary is still energized.
Aliens under the building sucking out power for the Pods
On that second logger, even when the solar isn't producing anything, the power factor is between 0.5 and 0.8. Isn't that a bad thing?
Was there a 3 pole AC isolator for the solar in-feed on the landlords DB?
Nice electrical sleuthing. Unfortunately now the way to progress is to look at the total incoming supply and establish what the pf there is or you are getting into more sophisticated wave for monitoring on that board, but that still isn't going to tell you what is happening at the incoming supply.
For sure! Wish I logged both the solar and whole supply in hindsight! We wasn’t there for power factor initially though, just KWH usage across a week
Anyone with a weed grow in this building will be sweating like a pig 😂😂😂
Mike, great video.. random question not related to this vid but I keep meaning to ask where you got your hi Vis workwear from? Thanks
Thanks bro, I got mine from workwear express 👍🏼
Great videos, really interesting!
How does the metering work there, I thought when there is a BNO like this appears to be with the Ryefield board, that is all pre-meter, then the individual flats and the LL supply all have their own meters, is that right? If so, I wonder if the LL is being billed for the EV use on their meter, is billing the users, but isn't taking that out of the service charge calculations so is getting double bubble on it
Yeah I’m suspicious of the EV billing also, I believed there is an upfront meter and then all the flats are metered, so LL should be total - tenants if that makes sense 👍🏼
@@residualelectrical Ok, in that case could the tenants be being measured in kWh on their meters, but the primary meter is being billed in kVA, so that is then getting hit with all the power factor issues that would not be billed to the individual tenants? Or maybe a tenant has bypassed their meter somewhere if they are in their individual units!
I think that’s exactly that! I’m awaiting their billing details so I can see if they are being charged for bad PF or KVAR etc 👍🏼
@@residualelectrical I manage a very small commercial building, and one of the intakes has a 100A 3-phase head, and off that, there is a three phase meter for one tenant, the two separate single phase meters for two others, one of them needs a meter swap which will take them all offline, and when speaking to UKPN they suggested I may want to re-jig it so I become a BNO so the that the intake goes into a Ryefield board I manage, and then the individual meters come off that, but with no metering between the service head and the new Ryefield board, this is only a 100A supply, so maybe when it is 400A or whatever you have there it's different (I am not an electrician!)
What's a "pod point"?
Beets chasing sockets and lifting floor boards… little more data required.
What are the gloves you put over your gloves. Thanks
Leather protectors to protect the insulating rubber from damage. You are required to wear them over any rubber insulating gloves, although way too many people just wear the rubber insulating gloves and no protectors thinking that's ok. Until a strand of wire pokes through the rubber and lights you up.
I thought that was the reason. Many thanks. Take a look at the Shelly products. Amazing way to track usage etc for small commercial/industrial/domestic for a budget solution which is cost effective.
@@brianoneill350 I actually have a bunch of Sonoff / Wemos devices flashed with Tasmota I use to monitor building loads and tempuratures. I converted the Sonoffs to use CTs instead of passing all the current through the unit itself. Then have an AWS server running an MQTT broker, Node-Red, InfluxDB and Grafana to log and make all the screens. There are other ways too, like Home Assistant, but last I checked you had to run a local server for Home Assistant and I have devices spread out across my area, so using a remote server was better. I also set this up 5 year ago and for sure things have changed, but this still works for what I need.
magnatize your screwdrivers and did you contact bno {buisness network oporator} about missing fuse carriers
Building Network Operator - that'll be the landlord or management company who has tasked him to do this job anyway