Thanks to TRADIFY for sponsoring this video: Get 50% Off your first 3 months using our discount code "ARTISAN" here: bit.ly/37G9BZX What the most shocking thing that you've found on an EICR...
Can you do a video of how many electricians abuse the now regulatory 5 yearly EICR for landlords. In my experience you request an electrician does the inspection he doesn't sign off and gives a bill of thousands of pounds for minor issues. E. G. I had a hairline crack in the consumer unit and got a bill for 800 to come back and replace it.
Maybe he can, once and for all, provide the DNO answer to the question, whether the DNO would notice a pulled cut-out fuse, if a smart-meter is fitted 😄 (That question came up in one of the earlier videos)
John seems to really know his stuff, a great asset to the team and Jordan still learning is the reason I love this industry. Always be ready to learn more.
I'm completely new to electrics,16 and I've fallen in love with electrics! Literally changed my entire career path as I find electrics more enjoyable than any construction skill. You're a great help for me as I'm learning quite a lot. Thanks so much for your work!!!
Really good video. Getting a more in depth look at some of the more regular things you do day to day. Really good to show that regardless of how experienced or knowledgeable you may be, there's always something new new to learn.
You really take pride in your work. Very informative video. By the way, the PSU at 08:55 is supposed to be used within an enclosure or device chassis. It is not rated to be left exposed like that.
Hi, great video. Just a comment, not all DIY electrical work is dodgy! I agree that people shouldn't do any electrical work if they don't know what they are doing. I have just completed a full rewire of my 3 bed bungalow, it was extended from 2 to 3 bedrooms. I needed to get an EICR so I could apply for my completion certificate. I got a pass (satisfactory) with no faults found. I went for all radial circuits with an RCBO board. Many thanks to you guys, David Savery and John Ward for your fonts of knowledge!
Just a quick tip remove the consumer unit cabinet surround makes it so much easier to see the incoming cables and gives you a lot more room to manoeuvre.
12:09 - a tricky one: not sure if it applies, but IEC 60364-4-43 433.2.2 says something like "the protective device can be along the run if there's no sockets, no branch circuits, and it's protected against fire and danger to persons"
Also, at 13:13 - sure 2.5mm² isn't great here, naughty at least, but if the upstream protection was like 16A, what class fault would that be? Nuisance trips if you ever actually plug something needing 32A in, sure...
Regarding the 1mm feeding the spur, I was taught not to use different size conductors in the same terminal, if you're going to install a spur for a small load use 2.5mm then reduce on the load side of the spur.
A great film, it answered a lot of questions for me. Jordan and John have some fantastic electrical knowledge. Well done, I would love to see the board change in part two. 👍👍👍
More please - Looking forward to seeing Part 2 - Consumer Unit install. John has taken being on camera like duck to water. You can tell he's got a vast about of knowledge. What a great asset to you business Jordan.
A mate of mine was carrying out PAT tests and found an extension lead made out of coaxial aerial cable. It was coiled under a rug so that the renter could keep his feet warm.
Do you have a video explaining ring and radial circuits for us Americans watching? Im glad you explained all about the EICR's, sounds like the UK's regs are far more stringent that here in the US.
John is great, his knowledge is incredible. He brings a more informative, and educational style to the videos. Over the more humorous, and less serious vibe that Corey brings. Also, the way Jordan says "marijuana" at 15:44, just brilliant.
26:20 Standard square shower pull cord switch issue. I use the round Crabtree ones, you fix it down and then terminate the cables with nice bend radius. Neon is connected to the cover so ideal for I.R. testing, just fit it after.
10.5kw shower.... Hold on while I go back to that fuse board in the video. Doubt it's on 16mm either. Doubt it's on 10mm. 6mm? Maybe. 4mm? Possibly.... Edit; kept watching, that blackened wiring is not surprising!
I'm on a looped supply from a 1950s ex council house. The DNO put an 80amp fuse in my side, and said next door wouldn't be able to go above 60 now without unlooping the supply
I was told by an electrical tutor that it was OK to use 1.5mm twin and earth on a 13 amp socket ,double or single provided that it was supplied by a connection unit with a 13 amp fuse. 1mm maybe OK in some circumstances but if any correction factors had to be applied it may end up with the cable only being able to take say 11amps and the fuse rating at 13 amps so I don't think it would be a good choice of cable with that fuse ,although with the short run of cable you have there I can't see there being an issue,although strictly speaking I don't think it does comply with regulations. Interesting video,thanks for uploading .Happy new year.
re the outdated MCB and RCD, use an old copy of the regs to check they still pass the tests. Then decide whether it's immediately dangerous, needs replacing, advisory or nothing. If they trip at the right current/fault, old or not, they aren't unsafe. That's not to comment on whether there are other reasons for an upgrade.
Being from the US, seeing 40A and 60A services is crazy to me. The average house here has a 150 or 200A service, 120/240 split phase. 400A is common on all new construction. Some areas have residential 3 phase, usually 120/240 delta or open delta, but sometimes 120/208Y on a main road. My own house has 100A 120/240 open delta. 100A is almost never installed in new construction, and really was only common 1980s and earlier. Power company where I live is phasing out open delta services, so to upgrade to 200A, we need to wait for the power company to connect us to a 120/208Y transformer set that's on the next pole over. Waiting to hear back on what the max amps we can upgrade to is. Usually 200 but they may let us go 250-300. A 60 amp single phase service here would have been installed in the 1950s or earlier. Unfortunately most power companies in the US will not allow 3 phase for a residential customer so people are stuck with these ridiculous 400 amp single phase services. Lucky to live in one of the few places here where it is possible.
The 1 mil off the socket is protected against overload by the fuse in the FCU, no matter what. The one potential issue is short-circuit protection if the cable between the socket and FCU gets damaged. If the socket is on a 20 amp or smaller radial the MCB is probably sufficient to protect the cable, if it's 30 or 32 most likely not. RIngs and 4 mm2 radials are precisely the reason why BS1363 plugs have fuses in them (and of course overload protection of power strips). 4 MΩ is theoretically a pass but anything less than high double digits would leave me a bit concerned there might be something on its way out. With plenty of loads connected it's probably just a bunch of Y capacitors affecting the numbers though.
The 0.05 ohms is like a max reading for 10mm earth cable as it’s it’s good for about 27-28 metres. Hence if it was not in range, you may have to up the size of cable but in domestic you wouldn’t as it’s never gonna be that more than a 28 metre run, so we would probably just replace it for another 10mm earth cable. GHS Electrical done a video a few years back on it saying something similar. Keep up the good work.
Scary what you can find when you scratch the surface. Definitely would like to see the board change and solar battery install. Another good vid artisan team!
as an American the whole concept of required inspections on electrical work is interesting. just today I pulled an 8 AWG which is a 6.0mm cable right out of its screw clamp on a brand new RV. the amount of wrong and intentionally bad wiring I found is just amazing. how a manufacturer can put a 55A output power converter on an 8 AWG (6.0mm) cable and then put an auto-resetting 40A breaker inline to "comply" with the wire current limits. but that breaker will be thermal cycling for the rest of its short life and fail prematurely.
And then the RV company will charge him over the odds to replace it for what shouldn't have been installed in the first place, because lets face it, a lot of people go back to where they get the vehicle from instead of finding someone who knows what they are doing.
Hey hey, it’s not “obsessive” to want to monitor your power consumption. I have the same Emporia Vue on my breaker panel (what you call a consumer unit). It works great.
those class 2 metal light fittings with the plastic box are designed for singles peing run through conduit. Where I've fitted them, I have used a bit if PVC sleaving from the exit of the conduit to the plastic box for the line and neutral and have crimped a ring fitting to the earth wire and attached it wall/ceiling mounting
Absolutely class act and generous with explanation, especially with the technical terms. Watching this from Singapore, and we do match British electrical standards fairly closely. Please keep up the quality content!
Love watching your guys videos! Really makes me realise how rubbish my electrics are in my house! 😕 plus working on building sites you guys give me that bit more Knowledge of what the electricians are doing 😀
Jeez -- that place is a fire hazard waiting to happen 😱 An insult to Chimpanzees ... they're highly intelligent and physically _very_ strong, and they could be trained to do far better than this. I would love to see a follow-up to this 👍
Worst I’ve seen was steel conduit covered in years of paint feeding an outdoor front porch light that had been connected to line rather than cpc, tenant reported occasional ‘static shocks’ when switching the switch. EICR for landlord on domestic premises.
All RCD breakers are supposed to be failed if they are put in the fuse panel before 2018. This is due to the amount of DC circuits in the circuit. You need a DC rated RCD for circuit with DC circuits connected to it. (DC circuit I mean devices like LED lights, electric car chargers, washing machines and other stuff that might have DC PSU in them) The responisble thing is to change the MCB's also to the same brand as the RCD. This is how we are suppose to do it in Iceland, you guys in the UK usually have harsher rules.
The MCB's would be a C3. It's just doesn't comply with the regs. It's not immediately dangerous. The kitchen extractor I would code a C2. The only reason I would is if something happens in the cable going to the spur. It would exceed its current rating before the breaker trips. Otherwise, it's not an immediate danger.
RCD's. Very important piece of safety kit. I moved into a newbuild some years ago. After a couple of weeks, an RCD would pop after switching on the kitchen light. Got a local sparky in to have a look and, after about 15-min's, he told me he had cured it. I asked him what he had done. He showed me how he had swapped the RCD for a switch. No more problems! 😱😱😱 I gave him a verbal boot up the arse and got another sparky. Turned out that when the kitchen light had been installed they had drilled through the cable and there was an intermittent short between live and earth. If it keeps popping, there's a problem!
That range hood probably uses an induction motor for its fan. Surge current needs to be accounted for in addition to code for wire diameter and fuses inline with the load.
Guys - great video. Love all the details and explanations of the terms. As an American it helped me to better understand your processes and regulations. Would love to hear more from John.
Thank you for sharing. Very interesting!!!!. Could i ask about the battery storage, is the loft the best place for placing them. Just thinking of weight and temperature fluctuations. Also fire risk. Keep up the good work.
I was thinking the same... however its actually what is stopping me from doing my batt install in the loft.. everything is wooden so not chancing it. I'm now leaning towards doing it in the garage but it means I got to run a really long cable.. kitchen is the next best and easiest area for me
During the IR test it appeared John tested individual circuits at 500V without worrying about any devices still connected. This is about 22 minutes in after the global tests, he states he is testing line to earth without the neutral. I can see the meter is on 500V. I'm new to this but I am always ultra careful before testing at 500V. I didn't understand his comment along the lines of the Megger will always bring the voltage down. Did I miss something or can anyone explain why he was not concerned about the risks of 500V between line and earth and his comment about Meggers?
16:48 Given how concerned these guys are about safety, I find it funny that they're ok with electric showers... and this one didn't even have RCD protection 🤣
The fused spur and its fuse is only protecting the cable and appliance “downstream “from it…..the “upstream cable” feeding it should be capable of taking 32A or 20A ,depending on the system, this is by design ,so you don’t have to keep checking the size of the cable every time you change a fitting ,for example a fused spur to a double socket
The regulations allow for the protective device to be a maximum of 3m from the point of reduced current carrying capacity. So typically 1.5T&E covers you for anything on a fused spur, but in the case of a cooker hood that will rarely be over 1A and fused down to 3A, 1.0T&E is still compliant, even if you and I would not install that way. Our regs say "do what you want as long as you can demonstrate compliance" American regs say "You will do it this way, without deviation"
@@simonparkinson1053 thanks for the update however I’m old school and it sounds a load of nonsense to me thought up by some waffler trying to fill some pages in the new regs book ,and justify his salary I’ll just stick to the common sense approach
@@simonparkinson1053 Yes ,thanks for informing me , I must admit that one passed me by ,but I won’t lose Any sleep about it, in the end I do a lot of things that I’m comfortable with ,and used to stand my ground, and argue with the inspectors on my assessments, I like to think it’s not my arrogance ,and I feel you get to know what is sensible ,and what is bullshit over the years !!!
@@BabyBane100 It really doesn't matter what you think is sensible or what you are comfortable with, what matters is the science...! The regs change after accidents and fatalities and electrical engineers run tests and do maths to work out what is safe and what is not. You can even do the calculations yourself...
You always choose the fuse for the load then you have and choose the cable after that so the cable and the things attached to it is always properly connected but I don't know how you do it there(Germany)
The water pipes in my Swindon home is a rubber reinforced pipe in a tube and are not therefore bonded to the pipes at that point. But the pipes etc are all buried into a concrete floor. The Electrics are unusual in that all the sockets are on one ring coming from the first floor.
My personal opinion on the cooker hood is that if the wire is thin enough then your going to have a higher resistance and if it shorts you won’t necessarily get enough current to go through and trip the protective device in the time period you want. You could calculate that. Couple this to the lack of rcd and it’s starting to smell risky. You are not going to pull more than the in line fuse will pop at so wouldn’t be concerned about the motor failing and pulling more current as the fuse will blow. Just the possibility of a fault between the fuse and the socket which has the fuse for that supply ie 32amp or less. You could code it as a c2 but it’s unlikely to fail so c3 and let home owner know.
BS 3871 was assimilated into IEC 898 because the responses were close enough to each other to make 3871 satisfy the same standard, which is why it was part of tables right up to now. BS 4293 was not assimilated into 61008 because they didn't satisfy other parts of the standard, hence why the 4293 standard is not recognized by 7671 (does not appear in the reference tables) and hasn't been since at least 16th if not before. The trouble is, 4283's respond faster than 61008 (200ms vs 300ms) and are pretty rock solid until they fail, but they are prone to failure. I haven't bought Amd 2 yet so I don't know that 3871 has been removed, but it is surprising to hear since nothing about them has changed...
Scary.. how a company or one man band can allow anything less than a day for an EICR on a house is beyond me. Sometimes profit is more important than doing a good job, especially when it’s not your name on the test certificate!
i once saw my boss working to fix machinery on a 3 phase supply he opened up the panel to adjust the plc he slipped with his screw driver and i went blind for a second as the rail pretty much exploded. he soon replaced the entire panel
18:50 Hey guys, civil engineering student here. Just curious, do you guys have to take into account the additional point loading from the weight of the batteries on the structure you're attaching them to, or get any kind of civil engineering approval? I was just looking at that old brickwork and considering how old the property might be and thinking, those batteries must add fairly significant weight to the walls.
I can tell you now, there will be no chance of that at all. Whatever the batteries are attaching to, it will be a case of 'does it look ok and structurally sound'...and that will be it. Personally i'd be less concerned about the weight issue and more concerned about how hot that atic get's in the height of summer - without adequate ventilation (potentially forced via fans), those battery systems are likely to shutdown via the BMS temperature cutout....and I never like the idea of the only thing stopping 100kg+ of Lithium based batteries from overheating and bursting into flames is solely the BMS safety cut outs. I prefer to ensure the environment itself never puts the batteries in a position where the BMS has to prevent a catastrophic failure.
I don't even run batteries as a hobby, but a battery bank in the attic sounds like a terrible idea unless you have a hot roof (roof insulted) and have the space conditioned. Then it just sounds bad. I'd prefer to have them in a disconnected shed with good insulation and active cooling.
The most shocking installation I've seen was when the previous owners/'electricians' connected the aircon before the circuit breakers, so literary spurred it off on the wire between the outside meter and the distribution board. The only way I was able to disconnect the aircon was by pulling out the wires from the meter.
Un-looping isn't expensive as it's the DNO's responsibility. I installed a meter box and armoured 3 phase cable to the new consumer unit and they did the rest. Now have 3 nice 100A phases of goodness!
The 'wonder lead' returns. Does it help you to wonder at such bad wiring? Or does it enable you to wAnder around when testing. There's a significant difference.
For those who are new to modern lingo, "upgrade" means "make it worse". ;p And I can probably guess why they changed the phase colors, and it already is getting on my nerves, lol. Those burnt wires remind me of the only time I almost had a real electrical fire. I had a electric drier outlet that felt a little, I don't want to say "loose", but "not very firm" when I moved into a place. Any experienced people know right where this is going. Many years later I noticed that I could smell burning and almost see a haze, it was obviously concerning, but I just couldn't pin point it. As it got worse, I started poking around, and when I unplugged the dryer and the outlet just fell apart. O,O Both the outlet and dryer cord were melted and charred, and *that's* when I remembered years ago when I first plugged it in that the outlet felt "odd". I kicked myself in the butt because I should have seen it coming. One lucky thing is I'm one of those guys who will not leave a dryer or stove running if I'm not in the house, and I won't even leave a portable heater plugged in if I'm not home. That last habit means I've worn out many outlets over the years because outlets aren't designed to be plugged an unplugged daily. They wear out surprisingly fast. I actually got several outlets in my current place on the "needs replaced" list due to them being loose fits and I can feel heat in the vacuum cleaner cord after use. For the unfamiliar, anytime you unplug any electrical device, note the temperature of the plug and cord, even if it only feels "warm" and make sure you are expecting that. Certain high amp appliances, like vacuums, will always have some heat after use, but make sure to learn what is "normal" and what is not. When in doubt, just consult an expert. It's cheaper, and safer, than a house fire.
Presumably you would contact the DNO about the looped supply before installing the EV charger? I know Western Power will upgrade the supply free if its looped and you're installing EV, however I'm not sure if all DNOs must or if its discretionary.
Currently, DNO's have to replace the feeds FOC due to the green agenda from the govt. However, how long this will last is anyones guess, but currently, FOC
It's past time we start using non conductive panels. I've seen plenty of junction boxes with wood covers, wooden trays and a couple wood panel covers. Honestly all the euros and brits that talk trash about our wiring appear to be blind to their own problems.
I did a separate line for each room and category. That is overkill but it is safe. So it is like 3 lines just for a my working room - 1 for lights, 1 for outlets, 1 for a AC. My switchboard looks like a nuclear power plant control center. It is expensive.
In the Netherlands, a fuse at the end of the cable is not allowed to give you an excuse to have a smaller wire diameter. Only after the fuse do you get to use smaller wires. What happens if you get a short just before the fuse? (This reasoning does not, however, apply to appliance flexes, because our plugs are not fused. For those, you guys do require fuses before the wire, though. It’s sort of backwards…)
It trips the fault protection in your protective device at the board. It seems like people are mixing up faults and overloads. Fault protection must always be at the origin of the circuit, overload protection can be anywhere along the circuit as long as it is before the load.
To clarify that; if the cable gets damaged it will either be a dead short (tripping the breaker no matter the cable's rating) or exposed copper (FI/SI/RCB/GF...etc). When there's a fault inside a device, it may pull more amps than its cable is rated for but not present a fault to the breaker. In that case it could overload the wire, and that's what the device fuse is there to prevent. The fuse in the UK plug is there mainly because the breaker could be 32A, but both plug and socket are only rated 13A. Quite different from other countries where the breaker and socket ratings generally match. So an unfused plug could pull 30A through that 13A outlet and the breaker would not complain. Very easy to do using an extension cord with just 3 sockets.
@@HenryLoenwind if the cable gets damaged short or exposed are the most likely results, but not the only ones. You can easily get it making partial contact, and thus drawing current. Which is bad enough when it’s the cable’s rated current, because that point of partial contact is basically acting as a heater dumping all that load - but it’s not improved if they can get 40 amps before the device trips.
Just listening to your script at 9:32. I think you meant to say "All exposed metal should be bonded so that they are at the same potential and there is - NO potential difference between exposed metal parts". Just thought I'd clarify for other viewers.
Older devices...just because they're not in the regs now doesn't make them a fail. You've got to remember that you're testing an older installation and may need to refer to older material to do so correctly. The harmonised colours are a good indicator of vintage of alterations, makes it easier to determine if someone hasn't applied the protection updates (typically RCDs) that they should have at the time. I've had unaltered 1970s installations with Wylex socket outlets and 3036s. You can advise the absence of RCDs but if nobody has altered anything and it tests correctly, it passes. If you found it had an extra socket added in new colours, someone didn't do their job properly to the standards of the time and it becomes a fail, even though the level of protection is no different.
That RCB is an issue. Don't know what the regulations says about it, but those older ones really don't like (as in failing quietly) DC feedback from things like inverters, chargers, LED-drivers and whatnot you now find in every typical household.
The overall resistance doing the global IR, is always lowest than the lowest one. So recording that value is fine as you know all the circuits are within the required limit of 1 M ohm
1MΩ complies but only after further investigation to ensure no latent fault exists. GN3: "...where an i.r. of less than 2MΩ is recorded... each cct should be tested separately." Basically, if there's VIR or MICC (Pyro) in the house you really need to know if it is degrading by taking proper readings and comparing them with (snigger🤭) the previous test results.
Overload device only protects the load and cable down stream of it, the 32A MCB is protecting that 1mm to the FCU. Fusing factor means that 13A fuse can probably carry 17A continuously so 1mm feeding a socket is not good, lack of coordination of the CPD and cable size, C2
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What the most shocking thing that you've found on an EICR...
'so that they're all at the same potential difference.' ? Surely you mean 'so that they're all at the same potential.'?
60A main DNO fuse blown, replaced with wire between the blades and MANY other bodges over the years!
I love how i watch this but half the video i sit here thinking "what the fuck is this dude on about?"
First question refer to public comments
Can you do a video of how many electricians abuse the now regulatory 5 yearly EICR for landlords. In my experience you request an electrician does the inspection he doesn't sign off and gives a bill of thousands of pounds for minor issues. E. G. I had a hairline crack in the consumer unit and got a bill for 800 to come back and replace it.
Really like John, talks a lot of sense and knows his stuff. More John please 🙏
Lots more coming up!
Loved the tips from his DNO perspective 👍
agreed more of John please
Maybe he can, once and for all, provide the DNO answer to the question, whether the DNO would notice a pulled cut-out fuse, if a smart-meter is fitted 😄
(That question came up in one of the earlier videos)
@@artisanelectrics he is very knowledge and knows his stuff 👌🏻
John seems to really know his stuff, a great asset to the team and Jordan still learning is the reason I love this industry. Always be ready to learn more.
I'm completely new to electrics,16 and I've fallen in love with electrics!
Literally changed my entire career path as I find electrics more enjoyable than any construction skill.
You're a great help for me as I'm learning quite a lot.
Thanks so much for your work!!!
The look of confusion as he heard "Is it half a day"
Johns info about the MCB date, Love that kind of knowledge. !
Every company needs a John, conscientious and knows his stuff. Great video from you both and looking forward to the next instalment.
“The names Arthur, Arthur Day!”
But seriously I love that Jordan helped John out rather than him working on his own! What a boss 🤜🏽🤛🏼
Really good video. Getting a more in depth look at some of the more regular things you do day to day. Really good to show that regardless of how experienced or knowledgeable you may be, there's always something new new to learn.
Interesting video and would definitely want to see the board change, and the solar install.
👍🏻
You really take pride in your work. Very informative video. By the way, the PSU at 08:55 is supposed to be used within an enclosure or device chassis. It is not rated to be left exposed like that.
Hi, great video. Just a comment, not all DIY electrical work is dodgy! I agree that people shouldn't do any electrical work if they don't know what they are doing. I have just completed a full rewire of my 3 bed bungalow, it was extended from 2 to 3 bedrooms. I needed to get an EICR so I could apply for my completion certificate. I got a pass (satisfactory) with no faults found. I went for all radial circuits with an RCBO board. Many thanks to you guys, David Savery and John Ward for your fonts of knowledge!
Exactly. I've had to fix work by every professional I've ever used
Really enjoyed that fella’s,John looks like a great addition to the ARTISAN TEAM.
👌🏼
I really liked your explanation of C1/C2/C3 codes in this video Jordan. Those skeleton boards are also quite common in London apparently.
Just a quick tip remove the consumer unit cabinet surround makes it so much easier to see the incoming cables and gives you a lot more room to manoeuvre.
12:09 - a tricky one: not sure if it applies, but IEC 60364-4-43 433.2.2 says something like "the protective device can be along the run if there's no sockets, no branch circuits, and it's protected against fire and danger to persons"
Also, at 13:13 - sure 2.5mm² isn't great here, naughty at least, but if the upstream protection was like 16A, what class fault would that be? Nuisance trips if you ever actually plug something needing 32A in, sure...
Regarding the 1mm feeding the spur, I was taught not to use different size conductors in the same terminal, if you're going to install a spur for a small load use 2.5mm then reduce on the load side of the spur.
A great film, it answered a lot of questions for me.
Jordan and John have some fantastic electrical knowledge.
Well done, I would love to see the board change in part two. 👍👍👍
More please - Looking forward to seeing Part 2 - Consumer Unit install. John has taken being on camera like duck to water. You can tell he's got a vast about of knowledge. What a great asset to you business Jordan.
Couldn't agree more! John is brilliant!
A mate of mine was carrying out PAT tests and found an extension lead made out of coaxial aerial cable. It was coiled under a rug so that the renter could keep his feet warm.
😳
Reminds me of an old elderly cple that saved on heating by placing coins behind the old Edison fuses scary lol
Do you have a video explaining ring and radial circuits for us Americans watching? Im glad you explained all about the EICR's, sounds like the UK's regs are far more stringent that here in the US.
John is great, his knowledge is incredible. He brings a more informative, and educational style to the videos. Over the more humorous, and less serious vibe that Corey brings. Also, the way Jordan says "marijuana" at 15:44, just brilliant.
Glad to see everyone is enjoying the content from John!
Marry-wana 😂
26:20 Standard square shower pull cord switch issue.
I use the round Crabtree ones, you fix it down and then terminate the cables with nice bend radius.
Neon is connected to the cover so ideal for I.R. testing, just fit it after.
Crabtree are far easier to terminate, especially if they are 10mm
10.5kw shower.... Hold on while I go back to that fuse board in the video. Doubt it's on 16mm either. Doubt it's on 10mm. 6mm? Maybe. 4mm? Possibly....
Edit; kept watching, that blackened wiring is not surprising!
I'm on a looped supply from a 1950s ex council house. The DNO put an 80amp fuse in my side, and said next door wouldn't be able to go above 60 now without unlooping the supply
Good to see Jordan on the tools again, John’s obvious experience shows. Well done
John is a great addition to the team, great hire guys
Glad you think so!
I was told by an electrical tutor that it was OK to use 1.5mm twin and earth on a 13 amp socket ,double or single provided that it was supplied by a connection unit with a 13 amp fuse. 1mm maybe OK in some circumstances but if any correction factors had to be applied it may end up with the cable only being able to take say 11amps and the fuse rating at 13 amps so I don't think it would be a good choice of cable with that fuse ,although with the short run of cable you have there I can't see there being an issue,although strictly speaking I don't think it does comply with regulations.
Interesting video,thanks for uploading .Happy new year.
re the outdated MCB and RCD, use an old copy of the regs to check they still pass the tests. Then decide whether it's immediately dangerous, needs replacing, advisory or nothing. If they trip at the right current/fault, old or not, they aren't unsafe. That's not to comment on whether there are other reasons for an upgrade.
Please have a video with John telling us everything he knows! What a great addition to your team!
Being from the US, seeing 40A and 60A services is crazy to me. The average house here has a 150 or 200A service, 120/240 split phase. 400A is common on all new construction. Some areas have residential 3 phase, usually 120/240 delta or open delta, but sometimes 120/208Y on a main road. My own house has 100A 120/240 open delta. 100A is almost never installed in new construction, and really was only common 1980s and earlier. Power company where I live is phasing out open delta services, so to upgrade to 200A, we need to wait for the power company to connect us to a 120/208Y transformer set that's on the next pole over. Waiting to hear back on what the max amps we can upgrade to is. Usually 200 but they may let us go 250-300. A 60 amp single phase service here would have been installed in the 1950s or earlier. Unfortunately most power companies in the US will not allow 3 phase for a residential customer so people are stuck with these ridiculous 400 amp single phase services. Lucky to live in one of the few places here where it is possible.
The 1 mil off the socket is protected against overload by the fuse in the FCU, no matter what. The one potential issue is short-circuit protection if the cable between the socket and FCU gets damaged. If the socket is on a 20 amp or smaller radial the MCB is probably sufficient to protect the cable, if it's 30 or 32 most likely not. RIngs and 4 mm2 radials are precisely the reason why BS1363 plugs have fuses in them (and of course overload protection of power strips).
4 MΩ is theoretically a pass but anything less than high double digits would leave me a bit concerned there might be something on its way out. With plenty of loads connected it's probably just a bunch of Y capacitors affecting the numbers though.
You know someone really bodged up an outlet install when an electrician just takes one look at it and re-terminates it, just to know it's safe.
Brilliant video again, thank you. love the technical explanation yet you always bring it back to simple terms and great explanations. Love your work.
The 0.05 ohms is like a max reading for 10mm earth cable as it’s it’s good for about 27-28 metres. Hence if it was not in range, you may have to up the size of cable but in domestic you wouldn’t as it’s never gonna be that more than a 28 metre run, so we would probably just replace it for another 10mm earth cable. GHS Electrical done a video a few years back on it saying something similar. Keep up the good work.
Really don't like those shower isolators with one screw, you can't be confident it's not gonna burn up again esp on 10+ kw
Scary what you can find when you scratch the surface. Definitely would like to see the board change and solar battery install. Another good vid artisan team!
One of the best video on the channel... So much Informative and well prepared
Many thanks, glad you enjoyed!
I can just imagine the builders I've worked for, " how much? " " how long?" " hurry up then!"
as an American the whole concept of required inspections on electrical work is interesting. just today I pulled an 8 AWG which is a 6.0mm cable right out of its screw clamp on a brand new RV. the amount of wrong and intentionally bad wiring I found is just amazing. how a manufacturer can put a 55A output power converter on an 8 AWG (6.0mm) cable and then put an auto-resetting 40A breaker inline to "comply" with the wire current limits. but that breaker will be thermal cycling for the rest of its short life and fail prematurely.
And then the RV company will charge him over the odds to replace it for what shouldn't have been installed in the first place, because lets face it, a lot of people go back to where they get the vehicle from instead of finding someone who knows what they are doing.
Hey hey, it’s not “obsessive” to want to monitor your power consumption. I have the same Emporia Vue on my breaker panel (what you call a consumer unit). It works great.
those class 2 metal light fittings with the plastic box are designed for singles peing run through conduit. Where I've fitted them, I have used a bit if PVC sleaving from the exit of the conduit to the plastic box for the line and neutral and have crimped a ring fitting to the earth wire and attached it wall/ceiling mounting
Absolutely class act and generous with explanation, especially with the technical terms.
Watching this from Singapore, and we do match British electrical standards fairly closely.
Please keep up the quality content!
Love watching your guys videos! Really makes me realise how rubbish my electrics are in my house! 😕 plus working on building sites you guys give me that bit more Knowledge of what the electricians are doing 😀
Jeez -- that place is a fire hazard waiting to happen 😱 An insult to Chimpanzees ... they're highly intelligent and physically _very_ strong, and they could be trained to do far better than this.
I would love to see a follow-up to this 👍
Guess he had to be really careful with the customer being around (customer has past electrical experience :)
Definitely 100% need to see the follow up!
Spurs off rings:
1.5mm2 for PVC insulated copper cables or
1.0mm2 for MICC copper conductor cable
Worst I’ve seen was steel conduit covered in years of paint feeding an outdoor front porch light that had been connected to line rather than cpc, tenant reported occasional ‘static shocks’ when switching the switch. EICR for landlord on domestic premises.
All RCD breakers are supposed to be failed if they are put in the fuse panel before 2018. This is due to the amount of DC circuits in the circuit. You need a DC rated RCD for circuit with DC circuits connected to it. (DC circuit I mean devices like LED lights, electric car chargers, washing machines and other stuff that might have DC PSU in them)
The responisble thing is to change the MCB's also to the same brand as the RCD.
This is how we are suppose to do it in Iceland, you guys in the UK usually have harsher rules.
The MCB's would be a C3. It's just doesn't comply with the regs. It's not immediately dangerous.
The kitchen extractor I would code a C2. The only reason I would is if something happens in the cable going to the spur. It would exceed its current rating before the breaker trips. Otherwise, it's not an immediate danger.
RCD's. Very important piece of safety kit.
I moved into a newbuild some years ago. After a couple of weeks, an RCD would pop after switching on the kitchen light. Got a local sparky in to have a look and, after about 15-min's, he told me he had cured it. I asked him what he had done. He showed me how he had swapped the RCD for a switch. No more problems! 😱😱😱
I gave him a verbal boot up the arse and got another sparky. Turned out that when the kitchen light had been installed they had drilled through the cable and there was an intermittent short between live and earth.
If it keeps popping, there's a problem!
That range hood probably uses an induction motor for its fan. Surge current needs to be accounted for in addition to code for wire diameter and fuses inline with the load.
Guys - great video. Love all the details and explanations of the terms. As an American it helped me to better understand your processes and regulations. Would love to hear more from John.
What a helpful video this is, studying for my 2365 at the moment and this has so many intriguing insights, thank you
That moment in Jordans life, when he opened a board and he and his one single ct clamp for the zappi were soo lost in that ocean of ct clamps 😂
Thank you for sharing. Very interesting!!!!. Could i ask about the battery storage, is the loft the best place for placing them. Just thinking of weight and temperature fluctuations. Also fire risk. Keep up the good work.
I was thinking the same... however its actually what is stopping me from doing my batt install in the loft.. everything is wooden so not chancing it. I'm now leaning towards doing it in the garage but it means I got to run a really long cable.. kitchen is the next best and easiest area for me
I would love too see more on this installation and upgrade. thanks Artisan Electrics.
During the IR test it appeared John tested individual circuits at 500V without worrying about any devices still connected. This is about 22 minutes in after the global tests, he states he is testing line to earth without the neutral. I can see the meter is on 500V. I'm new to this but I am always ultra careful before testing at 500V. I didn't understand his comment along the lines of the Megger will always bring the voltage down. Did I miss something or can anyone explain why he was not concerned about the risks of 500V between line and earth and his comment about Meggers?
16:48 Given how concerned these guys are about safety, I find it funny that they're ok with electric showers... and this one didn't even have RCD protection 🤣
The fused spur and its fuse is only protecting the cable and appliance “downstream “from it…..the “upstream cable” feeding it should be capable of taking 32A or 20A ,depending on the system, this is by design ,so you don’t have to keep checking the size of the cable every time you change a fitting ,for example a fused spur to a double socket
The regulations allow for the protective device to be a maximum of 3m from the point of reduced current carrying capacity.
So typically 1.5T&E covers you for anything on a fused spur, but in the case of a cooker hood that will rarely be over 1A and fused down to 3A, 1.0T&E is still compliant, even if you and I would not install that way.
Our regs say "do what you want as long as you can demonstrate compliance"
American regs say "You will do it this way, without deviation"
@@simonparkinson1053 thanks for the update however I’m old school and it sounds a load of nonsense to me thought up by some waffler trying to fill some pages in the new regs book ,and justify his salary I’ll just stick to the common sense approach
@@BabyBane100 not a new thing, it's been in for as long as I can remember.
But like you said, just be cause you *can* , doesn't mean you *should*
@@simonparkinson1053 Yes ,thanks for informing me , I must admit that one passed me by ,but I won’t lose Any sleep about it, in the end I do a lot of things that I’m comfortable with ,and used to stand my ground, and argue with the inspectors on my assessments, I like to think it’s not my arrogance ,and I feel you get to know what is sensible ,and what is bullshit over the years !!!
@@BabyBane100 It really doesn't matter what you think is sensible or what you are comfortable with, what matters is the science...! The regs change after accidents and fatalities and electrical engineers run tests and do maths to work out what is safe and what is not. You can even do the calculations yourself...
You always choose the fuse for the load then you have and choose the cable after that so the cable and the things attached to it is always properly connected but I don't know how you do it there(Germany)
Great video of all the defects thY wr come across on a day to day basis.
The water pipes in my Swindon home is a rubber reinforced pipe in a tube and are not therefore bonded to the pipes at that point. But the pipes etc are all buried into a concrete floor. The Electrics are unusual in that all the sockets are on one ring coming from the first floor.
My personal opinion on the cooker hood is that if the wire is thin enough then your going to have a higher resistance and if it shorts you won’t necessarily get enough current to go through and trip the protective device in the time period you want. You could calculate that. Couple this to the lack of rcd and it’s starting to smell risky. You are not going to pull more than the in line fuse will pop at so wouldn’t be concerned about the motor failing and pulling more current as the fuse will blow.
Just the possibility of a fault between the fuse and the socket which has the fuse for that supply ie 32amp or less. You could code it as a c2 but it’s unlikely to fail so c3 and let home owner know.
19:52 what a plesent suprise i have the same technics su-v500m2 amp
I am not an electrician but I definitelyt pulled a disgusted look when John spoke about the house wired with speaker wire.
BS 3871 was assimilated into IEC 898 because the responses were close enough to each other to make 3871 satisfy the same standard, which is why it was part of tables right up to now. BS 4293 was not assimilated into 61008 because they didn't satisfy other parts of the standard, hence why the 4293 standard is not recognized by 7671 (does not appear in the reference tables) and hasn't been since at least 16th if not before. The trouble is, 4283's respond faster than 61008 (200ms vs 300ms) and are pretty rock solid until they fail, but they are prone to failure.
I haven't bought Amd 2 yet so I don't know that 3871 has been removed, but it is surprising to hear since nothing about them has changed...
Scary.. how a company or one man band can allow anything less than a day for an EICR on a house is beyond me. Sometimes profit is more important than doing a good job, especially when it’s not your name on the test certificate!
i once saw my boss working to fix machinery on a 3 phase supply he opened up the panel to adjust the plc he slipped with his screw driver and i went blind for a second as the rail pretty much exploded. he soon replaced the entire panel
Nice to see your keeping your quality in tradesmen , with John being a excellent addition ….
I’m no electrician but enjoy watching how it’s done professionally 👍🏻 I used to watch Tom on TH-cam but he seems to have disappeared 🤔
As a former ADT Sparky Its uncommon to install a switched spur. Its usually Un Switched for a Intruder panel.
The quality of the painting job in that place reflects the electric work! 😆
Great save from Jordan, jumping off the gas bonding was on the tip of his tongue there 😜
18:50 Hey guys, civil engineering student here. Just curious, do you guys have to take into account the additional point loading from the weight of the batteries on the structure you're attaching them to, or get any kind of civil engineering approval? I was just looking at that old brickwork and considering how old the property might be and thinking, those batteries must add fairly significant weight to the walls.
I can tell you now, there will be no chance of that at all. Whatever the batteries are attaching to, it will be a case of 'does it look ok and structurally sound'...and that will be it.
Personally i'd be less concerned about the weight issue and more concerned about how hot that atic get's in the height of summer - without adequate ventilation (potentially forced via fans), those battery systems are likely to shutdown via the BMS temperature cutout....and I never like the idea of the only thing stopping 100kg+ of Lithium based batteries from overheating and bursting into flames is solely the BMS safety cut outs. I prefer to ensure the environment itself never puts the batteries in a position where the BMS has to prevent a catastrophic failure.
@@blower1Agree I would have thought the loft was the last place you would put a battery bank because of the heat/fire and inaccessibility issues.
I don't even run batteries as a hobby, but a battery bank in the attic sounds like a terrible idea unless you have a hot roof (roof insulted) and have the space conditioned. Then it just sounds bad.
I'd prefer to have them in a disconnected shed with good insulation and active cooling.
Well done gentlemen. I will definitely watch the board change and the battery install videos.
There is a chance that a rewire is in this house future it may be easier than just a simple breaker box replacement.
The most shocking installation I've seen was when the previous owners/'electricians' connected the aircon before the circuit breakers, so literary spurred it off on the wire between the outside meter and the distribution board. The only way I was able to disconnect the aircon was by pulling out the wires from the meter.
Un-looping isn't expensive as it's the DNO's responsibility. I installed a meter box and armoured 3 phase cable to the new consumer unit and they did the rest. Now have 3 nice 100A phases of goodness!
Marry-juana grow 🍃😂 Excellent video guys, super informative 💡🙌🏼
The 'wonder lead' returns. Does it help you to wonder at such bad wiring? Or does it enable you to wAnder around when testing. There's a significant difference.
😂😂
For those who are new to modern lingo, "upgrade" means "make it worse". ;p
And I can probably guess why they changed the phase colors, and it already is getting on my nerves, lol.
Those burnt wires remind me of the only time I almost had a real electrical fire. I had a electric drier outlet that felt a little, I don't want to say "loose", but "not very firm" when I moved into a place. Any experienced people know right where this is going. Many years later I noticed that I could smell burning and almost see a haze, it was obviously concerning, but I just couldn't pin point it. As it got worse, I started poking around, and when I unplugged the dryer and the outlet just fell apart. O,O
Both the outlet and dryer cord were melted and charred, and *that's* when I remembered years ago when I first plugged it in that the outlet felt "odd". I kicked myself in the butt because I should have seen it coming.
One lucky thing is I'm one of those guys who will not leave a dryer or stove running if I'm not in the house, and I won't even leave a portable heater plugged in if I'm not home.
That last habit means I've worn out many outlets over the years because outlets aren't designed to be plugged an unplugged daily. They wear out surprisingly fast.
I actually got several outlets in my current place on the "needs replaced" list due to them being loose fits and I can feel heat in the vacuum cleaner cord after use.
For the unfamiliar, anytime you unplug any electrical device, note the temperature of the plug and cord, even if it only feels "warm" and make sure you are expecting that. Certain high amp appliances, like vacuums, will always have some heat after use, but make sure to learn what is "normal" and what is not. When in doubt, just consult an expert. It's cheaper, and safer, than a house fire.
Yes to the video of you changing the CU - great videos! Thanks
Presumably you would contact the DNO about the looped supply before installing the EV charger?
I know Western Power will upgrade the supply free if its looped and you're installing EV, however I'm not sure if all DNOs must or if its discretionary.
Currently, DNO's have to replace the feeds FOC due to the green agenda from the govt. However, how long this will last is anyones guess, but currently, FOC
I"m in the US, so used to seeing electric panels be all metal... it seems a little scary to have *wood* in your electrical "cabinet" ...
It's past time we start using non conductive panels. I've seen plenty of junction boxes with wood covers, wooden trays and a couple wood panel covers.
Honestly all the euros and brits that talk trash about our wiring appear to be blind to their own problems.
I did a separate line for each room and category. That is overkill but it is safe. So it is like 3 lines just for a my working room - 1 for lights, 1 for outlets, 1 for a AC. My switchboard looks like a nuclear power plant control center. It is expensive.
"Dyson Hoover" I love the way that you English can't say vacuum cleaner and have to call them Hoovers whether they are or aren't.
In the Netherlands, a fuse at the end of the cable is not allowed to give you an excuse to have a smaller wire diameter. Only after the fuse do you get to use smaller wires. What happens if you get a short just before the fuse?
(This reasoning does not, however, apply to appliance flexes, because our plugs are not fused. For those, you guys do require fuses before the wire, though. It’s sort of backwards…)
It trips the fault protection in your protective device at the board. It seems like people are mixing up faults and overloads. Fault protection must always be at the origin of the circuit, overload protection can be anywhere along the circuit as long as it is before the load.
To clarify that; if the cable gets damaged it will either be a dead short (tripping the breaker no matter the cable's rating) or exposed copper (FI/SI/RCB/GF...etc). When there's a fault inside a device, it may pull more amps than its cable is rated for but not present a fault to the breaker. In that case it could overload the wire, and that's what the device fuse is there to prevent.
The fuse in the UK plug is there mainly because the breaker could be 32A, but both plug and socket are only rated 13A. Quite different from other countries where the breaker and socket ratings generally match. So an unfused plug could pull 30A through that 13A outlet and the breaker would not complain. Very easy to do using an extension cord with just 3 sockets.
@@HenryLoenwind if the cable gets damaged short or exposed are the most likely results, but not the only ones. You can easily get it making partial contact, and thus drawing current. Which is bad enough when it’s the cable’s rated current, because that point of partial contact is basically acting as a heater dumping all that load - but it’s not improved if they can get 40 amps before the device trips.
Another fascinating video! And yes, board change in that property would be an interesting video too.
Noted 📝
John is a standout (head and shoulders) sparky. You are building a great AE team.
Just listening to your script at 9:32. I think you meant to say "All exposed metal should be bonded so that they are at the same potential and there is - NO potential difference between exposed metal parts". Just thought I'd clarify for other viewers.
Older devices...just because they're not in the regs now doesn't make them a fail.
You've got to remember that you're testing an older installation and may need to refer to older material to do so correctly.
The harmonised colours are a good indicator of vintage of alterations, makes it easier to determine if someone hasn't applied the protection updates (typically RCDs) that they should have at the time.
I've had unaltered 1970s installations with Wylex socket outlets and 3036s.
You can advise the absence of RCDs but if nobody has altered anything and it tests correctly, it passes.
If you found it had an extra socket added in new colours, someone didn't do their job properly to the standards of the time and it becomes a fail, even though the level of protection is no different.
That RCB is an issue. Don't know what the regulations says about it, but those older ones really don't like (as in failing quietly) DC feedback from things like inverters, chargers, LED-drivers and whatnot you now find in every typical household.
The overall resistance doing the global IR, is always lowest than the lowest one. So recording that value is fine as you know all the circuits are within the required limit of 1 M ohm
1MΩ complies but only after further investigation to ensure no latent fault exists.
GN3: "...where an i.r. of less than 2MΩ is recorded... each cct should be tested separately."
Basically, if there's VIR or MICC (Pyro) in the house you really need to know if it is degrading by taking proper readings and comparing them with (snigger🤭) the previous test results.
What a brilliant video! Would love to see a follow up.
Sure thing 👍🏻
The face on Jordan - looks like he was caught with his pants down 😁
Another great episode guys and very informative 👍
John is a great addition to the team Jordan. Artisan obviously attracts the best. Chris.
John's a top man. A great addition to the Company.
Overload device only protects the load and cable down stream of it, the 32A MCB is protecting that 1mm to the FCU. Fusing factor means that 13A fuse can probably carry 17A continuously so 1mm feeding a socket is not good, lack of coordination of the CPD and cable size, C2
Individualy you will always have higier resistance, globaly you will have lower resistance. Resistance droping with incrising the lenth of the system.
That's a sweet tomato grow setup there. Love all your videos, keep them coming!
Crazy seeing how different England is from Australia in electrical wiring and installations