Is FiveThirtyEight going to be bringing back the Congressman vote tracker like they had for Trump? I think it'd be really interesting to see how Senators and Representatives vote, especially how it compares to how they voted under Trump.
Thank you for including a South Asian in the discussion, 538. Not enough people do when talking about the Asian community, when they absolutely should.
@20:55 I live near the Green Mill. My college roommate & good friend is S. Korean. When Ms. Junn shared her experience it hit hard. For friends like me it's hard to be an ally in situations like that because my ally ship in a situation like that would get me arrested. I think many people don't respond, beyond removing our friends from those those situations, because in so many situations because our responses would be beyond assertive.
Thank you 538 for being in AAPI folks to discuss this issue. I learned a few things from this and wish more media outlets include them in discussion on this situation and frankly beyond. Perspectives are important IMO.
A lot of haters in this comment section! Just because she threw out the words 'patriarchy' and 'colonialism' doesn't make her points any less valid. They're buzzwords, yes, but when they're backed by historical perspective they're more than just sloganeering. Also, I feel like moments like this in America, just focusing on the data would miss the full story, which is more complex and personal. Sometimes you have to see the humanity behind the numbers to get the full picture, therefor guests are invited to provide historical and sometimes even personal anecdotes. Overall, I thought it was a tremendously informative podcast.
to be honest this was not their best all we had was a uni prof talk about personal views. Far from the data-driven, I expect from 538. Once she started talking about patriarchy and colonialism I lost interest. The worst part was when she blows off the Asain elected Republican and says Asians support affirmative action.
@@ahamed4152 she framed the forced sex slavery of "comfort women" as patriarchy. I would think that's not controversial when it's men forcing women to be slaves. That's textbook patriarchy action : "a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it."
@@Grantmadeachannel when did the US have sex slavery? Maybe that is an issue in other countries but I am not sure sex slavery is an issue in America 2021.
This wasn't a conversation, it was more like a series of monologues. The podcast is in desperate need of real discussion/banter back and forth between the participants. I used to love these podcasts, but they almost aren't worth watching these days.
Honestly, I hate the circumstances that brought this on, but I really think that this podcast could benefit more from actual personal anecdotes like what Ms. Junn tells 21 minutes in. This is one of the better ones I've seen them put together.
I agree. Data is incredibly valuable and more objective than anecdotes, but anecdotes provide perspective that make the data more personalized and less abstract.
I can get anecdotes from all the other media sources anecdotes usually play to people's emotions not always of course. of course, it's different if the personal anecdotes reflect the true data which I think is also your point.
absolutely not. Anecdotes are pointless to rational discussion. They aren't evidence. There are many podcasts, news programmes & newspapapers dedicated to anecdotes. 538 is liked for it's data driven content.
Perhaps I should be more clear: the data is what I come for, as well, but one of the issues that this podcast occasionally suffers from is the sort of ivory tower approach you get when you only look at data and don't speak to anyone that actually lives in that world. I think Galen does a great job, Perry is very insightful, every single woman that they bring on is great (Amelia, Sarah, Clare when she was on), and Nate is really good about taking a longer view and also challenging a standard talking point to take a devil's advocate position. But we rarely ever see a position like Jane Junn, who clearly knows the data but also lives and works in the trenches every day.
Summary: the evidence suggests that race is not the relevant variable, but we're going to talk about race the entire time and even actively shame people who suggest otherwise. Nate is above such things but not suicidal enough to say anything, so he mostly stays quet and occasionally makes a tangential point about data. Aside from everything else, this is just fucking insulting toward sex workers. Even if race did play a role, it's blatantly obvious that the sex worker stuff was the more decisive variable. But expressing compassion toward sex workers is not in fashion, so we hear nothing. Truly pathetic.
Podcast quality is going downhill quickly lately. Lack of data driven discussion, lack of discussion in general/ people just taking turns giving speeches, and no fun banter. This episode was a snooze fest, it was basically a banal college seminar. Ever since the end of 2020, the podcast has felt really lost. Used to be the highlight of my week...
In defense of the podcast, most of their data driven analytics are related to elections. So it’s not surprising to see a natural ebb and flow of the data driven nature of the podcast that correlates with the election cycles. 2020 election was already going to have a ton of data collected and then the pandemic happened which amped it up to 11. Topics outside of election horse races/issues just aren’t polled as much so there aren’t as much data to analyze, but in order to stay on the air (and website), they still need to churn out content
Been really disappointed in 538 podcast lately, and this one in particular. The strength of 538 is a data driven discussion, and this was the opposite of that. Having academics come on to actively toss out facts that don't support their bias, and create new facts based on personal anecdote is not helpful or adding to the discussion. It just obfuscates the issue. I hope Galen can find some fact driven guests going forward, and get away from proof by parable.
I think that the American media really REALLY needs to work on separating Asians as a race, Han Chinese as an ethnicity, and the CCP (government of the People's Republic of China). The first two are distinct and don't pose any unique threat to people in the US or the American way of life (quite the contrary, in my view). The last one is an outright Orwellian ethno-supremacist state, bent on global hegemony and enforcing its authoritarian model of governance in other countries. When people conflate these things, they both make attacks like what occurred in Atlanta more likely and aid the narrative that a totalitarian government would like to spread (that the Chinese people and government are inseparable, and that US animosity towards the former is motivated by animosity towards the latter). While I can't say that simple patriotism and a desire to keep the US "#1" isn't a motivating factor for many - I can all but guarantee that if the government of Taiwan were in control of mainland China, the fear and animosity would be 1/10th of what they are currently. We need to get to a place where people can criticize China without actually provoking racism or being disingenuously accused of doing so. It really shouldn't be that hard.
Remember what the late Carl Sagan reminded us, we are just on a pale blue dot suspended in a sunbeam. We are all the same species of human and we share this planet, the fact we still discriminate against each other because of our looks is pretty horrible. We need to put our differences aside, and when you get politicians who call SARS-CoV-2 racial slurs, it causes this. We just gotta keep fighting and protecting each other.
Not going to lie, I am a weekly listener and love the data oriented presentation of 538, but this weeks podcast was a train wreck. The guests were terrible and in the wrong field for the 538 format. A gender studies professor is not the kind of statistics based analyst I would want, and then she came on and had no numbers or data just “AsIaN’s Is OpPreSSed” and Korean comfort woman tails which is a horrible tragedy that shouldn’t be forgotten, but was perpetrated by the Japanese nearly a century ago. Bringing up historical cased of anti asian sentiment is not very relevant to the modern problem of discrimination, as we are not hostly occupying an asian nation with the goal of conquest, which is when most of the noted incidents occurred. Where was the discussion of asian voting patterns or what political changes may happen in the asian community. Overall the worst episode I’ve seen so far.
I agree this was not their best all we had was a uni prof talk about personal views. Far from the data-driven, I expect from 538. Once she started talking about patriarchy and colonialism I lost interest. The worst part was when she blows off the Asian elected Republican and says Asians support affirmative action.
It's so hard not to believe that racism played a role in these attacks, but it's one thing to know it instinctively and another to be able to prove it legally. It's possible that that was where some of these law enforcement officials were coming from, but if so they should have just kept their mouths shut or said it's too soon to tell.
good. we need to keep Warnock in the Senate and hopefully the few Asians that live in Nevada Arizona Pennsylvania Wisconsin North Carolina Missouri Ohio and Iowa all turn out to vote so we can expand our Senate Majority 😇😇 AND PACK THE COURTS🥵🥵
They’ve done a podcast on the court, I don’t think packing is the answer but reform is clearly necessary. The chance of when a person dies combined with the current president/senate majority should not be such a major factor in the ideological balance of the highest court in the land. What I think really should be done is either add our territories plus DC as states or let them be their own thing. The main argument against admitting these places to the union is it will add more democratic representation to the congress. The ideological balance of these places shouldn’t be a consideration, the fact that they are taxed and serve in the military etc without full representation in Congress is the only consideration in my eyes
The problem is that specially chinese/americans have not broken their ties with communist china, communist china is the enemy of the U.S. , this is totally different to what the cuban/amercan community did in Florida, in Florida they are the first ones to demand a tough pissition, embargoes, sanctions and even sabotages of communist cuba, and are seen as a loyal american community, chinese/americans have to choose between being loyal to the U.S. or communist china, they should be the first onest demanding a ban on all trade with china
@@ahamed4152 The correct term is unpacking the courts because the GOP has already packed them. Recall that McConnell didn't even allow a hearing for Merrick Garland and he rushed seating unqualified hack socially conservative judges, even ones rated NOT QUALIFIED by the ABA!
I am British but I lived in the US for over ten years. My observation was that in the UK "Asian" means from the Indian sub-continent, whereas in the US "Asian" means East Asian.
@@fidomusic As a South Asian American in the US, I hate how we get excluded from the "Asian" definition as often as we do. I defiantly call myself Asian to try and challenge that.
"Asian America" was forged as a category during the uprisings of the 1960s - take a look at "Serve the People" by Karen L. Ishizuka for a historical overview of this process.
There's only 4-5 slots on every podcast, you can't represent every nationality. The show is supposed to be about data-driven discussion of current events. I don't care about the speakers' skin color, I'm here to listen to reporters who prioritize data/statistics. Nate absolutely belongs on the podcast.
First 538 politics podcast I can't even get through in 4 years of listening. Not to say that the interview with the conservative movement thinkers didn't annoy me, and it definitely went in this direction. This was such liberal polemic. There is a place on on 538 for this kind of stuff probably, I just don't think the Podcast which is supposed to be dispassionate analysis is the right one.
"If asian after these attacks and situations go ahead and vote for republicans again" can't speak for other (downballot) races, but I'm pretty sure the majority of AsAm voters backed Biden, Ossoff, and Warnock
then she goes on to say the US military suppress people like Korean forget the US fight for South Korea's freedom and is protecting many Asian countries from the CCP like Taiwan
Yeah, frankly the level of anything approaching diversity of opinion on this podcast is pretty abysmal of late. I also find the X Studies narratives to describe history and society pretty uncompelling.
If she had some data-driven arguments this would've been a lot more interesting. Instead 538 is becoming just like every other news outlet playing to viewers' emotions.
Why not just throw him in jail for life for mass murder. Why risk the trial trying to divine his racist rationale when he’s going to be in jail for life regardless. It’s clear the public opinion on the case and public understanding point to his clearly racist intentions.
Is FiveThirtyEight going to be bringing back the Congressman vote tracker like they had for Trump? I think it'd be really interesting to see how Senators and Representatives vote, especially how it compares to how they voted under Trump.
lol, no.
Its vacation time for 4 years.
Thank you for including a South Asian in the discussion, 538. Not enough people do when talking about the Asian community, when they absolutely should.
@20:55
I live near the Green Mill. My college roommate & good friend is S. Korean. When Ms. Junn shared her experience it hit hard. For friends like me it's hard to be an ally in situations like that because my ally ship in a situation like that would get me arrested. I think many people don't respond, beyond removing our friends from those those situations, because in so many situations because our responses would be beyond assertive.
That anecdote was so very, VERY cringe!
I hope so. We must stand against bigotry
Thank you 538 for being in AAPI folks to discuss this issue. I learned a few things from this and wish more media outlets include them in discussion on this situation and frankly beyond. Perspectives are important IMO.
They probably recorded this during today's active shooter incident in Colorado
A lot of haters in this comment section! Just because she threw out the words 'patriarchy' and 'colonialism' doesn't make her points any less valid. They're buzzwords, yes, but when they're backed by historical perspective they're more than just sloganeering. Also, I feel like moments like this in America, just focusing on the data would miss the full story, which is more complex and personal. Sometimes you have to see the humanity behind the numbers to get the full picture, therefor guests are invited to provide historical and sometimes even personal anecdotes. Overall, I thought it was a tremendously informative podcast.
I was wondering if Tom Turker the troll lurker would comment. You did not disappoint!
This is such a great conversation. Substantive and complex, and not people guessing or pontificating.
Missing Clare Malone, though!
to be honest this was not their best all we had was a uni prof talk about personal views. Far from the data-driven, I expect from 538. Once she started talking about patriarchy and colonialism I lost interest. The worst part was when she blows off the Asain elected Republican and says Asians support affirmative action.
@@ahamed4152 she framed the forced sex slavery of "comfort women" as patriarchy. I would think that's not controversial when it's men forcing women to be slaves. That's textbook patriarchy action : "a system of society or government in which men hold the power and women are largely excluded from it."
@@Grantmadeachannel when did the US have sex slavery? Maybe that is an issue in other countries but I am not sure sex slavery is an issue in America 2021.
This wasn't a conversation, it was more like a series of monologues. The podcast is in desperate need of real discussion/banter back and forth between the participants. I used to love these podcasts, but they almost aren't worth watching these days.
Honestly, I hate the circumstances that brought this on, but I really think that this podcast could benefit more from actual personal anecdotes like what Ms. Junn tells 21 minutes in. This is one of the better ones I've seen them put together.
I agree. Data is incredibly valuable and more objective than anecdotes, but anecdotes provide perspective that make the data more personalized and less abstract.
I can get anecdotes from all the other media sources anecdotes usually play to people's emotions not always of course. of course, it's different if the personal anecdotes reflect the true data which I think is also your point.
after listening to her anecdotes not sure what values it adds tbh.
absolutely not. Anecdotes are pointless to rational discussion. They aren't evidence. There are many podcasts, news programmes & newspapapers dedicated to anecdotes. 538 is liked for it's data driven content.
Perhaps I should be more clear: the data is what I come for, as well, but one of the issues that this podcast occasionally suffers from is the sort of ivory tower approach you get when you only look at data and don't speak to anyone that actually lives in that world. I think Galen does a great job, Perry is very insightful, every single woman that they bring on is great (Amelia, Sarah, Clare when she was on), and Nate is really good about taking a longer view and also challenging a standard talking point to take a devil's advocate position. But we rarely ever see a position like Jane Junn, who clearly knows the data but also lives and works in the trenches every day.
South East Asians get attacked too.
Can’t let Asia be systematically divided by these “westerners”.
Summary: the evidence suggests that race is not the relevant variable, but we're going to talk about race the entire time and even actively shame people who suggest otherwise. Nate is above such things but not suicidal enough to say anything, so he mostly stays quet and occasionally makes a tangential point about data.
Aside from everything else, this is just fucking insulting toward sex workers. Even if race did play a role, it's blatantly obvious that the sex worker stuff was the more decisive variable. But expressing compassion toward sex workers is not in fashion, so we hear nothing. Truly pathetic.
Podcast quality is going downhill quickly lately. Lack of data driven discussion, lack of discussion in general/ people just taking turns giving speeches, and no fun banter. This episode was a snooze fest, it was basically a banal college seminar. Ever since the end of 2020, the podcast has felt really lost. Used to be the highlight of my week...
In defense of the podcast, most of their data driven analytics are related to elections. So it’s not surprising to see a natural ebb and flow of the data driven nature of the podcast that correlates with the election cycles. 2020 election was already going to have a ton of data collected and then the pandemic happened which amped it up to 11. Topics outside of election horse races/issues just aren’t polled as much so there aren’t as much data to analyze, but in order to stay on the air (and website), they still need to churn out content
Been really disappointed in 538 podcast lately, and this one in particular. The strength of 538 is a data driven discussion, and this was the opposite of that. Having academics come on to actively toss out facts that don't support their bias, and create new facts based on personal anecdote is not helpful or adding to the discussion. It just obfuscates the issue.
I hope Galen can find some fact driven guests going forward, and get away from proof by parable.
They could just bring back Clare, but I know, I know... Crazy talk right?
Do hate crimes involve two or more races? Who/what is the main demographic/group involved in these crimes?
I think that the American media really REALLY needs to work on separating Asians as a race, Han Chinese as an ethnicity, and the CCP (government of the People's Republic of China). The first two are distinct and don't pose any unique threat to people in the US or the American way of life (quite the contrary, in my view). The last one is an outright Orwellian ethno-supremacist state, bent on global hegemony and enforcing its authoritarian model of governance in other countries. When people conflate these things, they both make attacks like what occurred in Atlanta more likely and aid the narrative that a totalitarian government would like to spread (that the Chinese people and government are inseparable, and that US animosity towards the former is motivated by animosity towards the latter). While I can't say that simple patriotism and a desire to keep the US "#1" isn't a motivating factor for many - I can all but guarantee that if the government of Taiwan were in control of mainland China, the fear and animosity would be 1/10th of what they are currently. We need to get to a place where people can criticize China without actually provoking racism or being disingenuously accused of doing so. It really shouldn't be that hard.
Remember what the late Carl Sagan reminded us, we are just on a pale blue dot suspended in a sunbeam.
We are all the same species of human and we share this planet, the fact we still discriminate against each other because of our looks is pretty horrible. We need to put our differences aside, and when you get politicians who call SARS-CoV-2 racial slurs, it causes this.
We just gotta keep fighting and protecting each other.
@tom tuker I was talking about race and religion not content of character
@tom tuker
He clearly says "the fact we still discriminate... _because of our looks_ ". It's got nothing to do with what you're talking about.
@tom tuker who said that?
@tom tuker according to who?
Not going to lie, I am a weekly listener and love the data oriented presentation of 538, but this weeks podcast was a train wreck. The guests were terrible and in the wrong field for the 538 format.
A gender studies professor is not the kind of statistics based analyst I would want, and then she came on and had no numbers or data just “AsIaN’s Is OpPreSSed” and Korean comfort woman tails
which is a horrible tragedy that shouldn’t be forgotten, but was perpetrated by the Japanese nearly a century ago.
Bringing up historical cased of anti asian sentiment is not very relevant to the modern problem of discrimination, as we are not hostly occupying an asian nation with the goal of conquest, which is when most of the noted incidents occurred.
Where was the discussion of asian voting patterns or what political changes may happen in the asian community.
Overall the worst episode I’ve seen so far.
I agree this was not their best all we had was a uni prof talk about personal views. Far from the data-driven, I expect from 538. Once she started talking about patriarchy and colonialism I lost interest. The worst part was when she blows off the Asian elected Republican and says Asians support affirmative action.
It's so hard not to believe that racism played a role in these attacks, but it's one thing to know it instinctively and another to be able to prove it legally. It's possible that that was where some of these law enforcement officials were coming from, but if so they should have just kept their mouths shut or said it's too soon to tell.
Many of the ignorant comments here show how much work we need to do.
good. we need to keep Warnock in the Senate and hopefully the few Asians that live in Nevada Arizona Pennsylvania Wisconsin North Carolina Missouri Ohio and Iowa all turn out to vote so we can expand our Senate Majority 😇😇 AND PACK THE COURTS🥵🥵
I totally agree with that.
packing the court is not the best idea. it comes off as a power grab.
They’ve done a podcast on the court, I don’t think packing is the answer but reform is clearly necessary. The chance of when a person dies combined with the current president/senate majority should not be such a major factor in the ideological balance of the highest court in the land.
What I think really should be done is either add our territories plus DC as states or let them be their own thing. The main argument against admitting these places to the union is it will add more democratic representation to the congress. The ideological balance of these places shouldn’t be a consideration, the fact that they are taxed and serve in the military etc without full representation in Congress is the only consideration in my eyes
The problem is that specially chinese/americans have not broken their ties with communist china, communist china is the enemy of the U.S. , this is totally different to what the cuban/amercan community did in Florida, in Florida they are the first ones to demand a tough pissition, embargoes, sanctions and even sabotages of communist cuba, and are seen as a loyal american community, chinese/americans have to choose between being loyal to the U.S. or communist china, they should be the first onest demanding a ban on all trade with china
@@ahamed4152 The correct term is unpacking the courts because the GOP has already packed them. Recall that McConnell didn't even allow a hearing for Merrick Garland and he rushed seating unqualified hack socially conservative judges, even ones rated NOT QUALIFIED by the ABA!
How on earth is 'Asian Americans' even a single thing? There are Chinese, Indians, Japanese, Iranians, Lebanese, Sri Lankans, Vietnamese,...
Africa is also an entire diverse continent
I am British but I lived in the US for over ten years. My observation was that in the UK "Asian" means from the Indian sub-continent, whereas in the US "Asian" means East Asian.
@@fidomusic As a South Asian American in the US, I hate how we get excluded from the "Asian" definition as often as we do. I defiantly call myself Asian to try and challenge that.
"Asian America" was forged as a category during the uprisings of the 1960s - take a look at "Serve the People" by Karen L. Ishizuka for a historical overview of this process.
This panel needed a few more East Asian voices. Nate's presence was largely ornamental.
The boss wants to be on a podcast, he gets to be on a podcast. I agree though.
And more South Asian voices.
There's only 4-5 slots on every podcast, you can't represent every nationality. The show is supposed to be about data-driven discussion of current events. I don't care about the speakers' skin color, I'm here to listen to reporters who prioritize data/statistics. Nate absolutely belongs on the podcast.
@@vhaidrenarmani7340 Nate still didn't need to be here for this one. He said so himself.
First 538 politics podcast I can't even get through in 4 years of listening. Not to say that the interview with the conservative movement thinkers didn't annoy me, and it definitely went in this direction. This was such liberal polemic.
There is a place on on 538 for this kind of stuff probably, I just don't think the Podcast which is supposed to be dispassionate analysis is the right one.
No discussion of guns or white evangelical obsession with sex...
If asian after these attacks and situations go ahead and vote for republicans again , honestly , I will never support their fights against these sums.
people vote for republicans for many reasons Affriamitve Action, tough on crime, and their stance on the CCP. Think people from Taiwan.
Do they need your support?
"If asian after these attacks and situations go ahead and vote for republicans again" can't speak for other (downballot) races, but I'm pretty sure the majority of AsAm voters backed Biden, Ossoff, and Warnock
>patriarchy patriarchy patriarchy
What an argument.
then she goes on to say the US military suppress people like Korean forget the US fight for South Korea's freedom and is protecting many Asian countries from the CCP like Taiwan
Yeah, frankly the level of anything approaching diversity of opinion on this podcast is pretty abysmal of late. I also find the X Studies narratives to describe history and society pretty uncompelling.
If she had some data-driven arguments this would've been a lot more interesting. Instead 538 is becoming just like every other news outlet playing to viewers' emotions.
Why not just throw him in jail for life for mass murder. Why risk the trial trying to divine his racist rationale when he’s going to be in jail for life regardless. It’s clear the public opinion on the case and public understanding point to his clearly racist intentions.