How Much do Investment Bankers Really Work?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ค. 2024
- 💡Break into Investment Banking by learning DCF valuation, accretion / dilution, and recruiting strategy: bit.ly/PFInvestmentBanking
📚 Free recruiting resources: peakframeworks.com
In this video, we explain how many hours you'll have to work at a TOP investment bank. The most competitive groups with the best deal flow and recruiting options typically require you to work 60-80 hours per week. We break down what a 60 and 80 hour work week look like and explain why 100 hours per week is likely exaggerated.
We break down the investment banking workflow to show you why so many hours are required. There's a combination between external factors (the market, the client, the complexity) and internal factors (your firm's culture and proficiency).
** Full Blog Post: bit.ly/PF-IBDHours
0:00 - Intro
1:22 - Investment Banking Hours Distribution
2:06 - 60 Hour Work Week Schedule
2:52 - 80 Hour Work Week Schedule
4:00 - Factor Determining Banking Hours
Peak Frameworks is a business career prep service started by Matt Ting and Patrick Fong, who have each spent several years working in investment banking and private equity in New York and Silicon Valley. Matt and Patrick met at Evercore, a top tier investment bank, and over the years have tutored and coached dozens of candidates to land their dream business job.
Matt Ting: / matthewting
Patrick Fong (HBS 2021): / patrick-fong-0b773041
#InvestmentBanking #Finance #Careers
This is the best video explaining working hours in a particular career field I've seen so far. The way you breakdown typical daily work in a week is informative.
It is generally hard to find good videos about investment banking, which is why I loved this video. Thanks!
Thanks for this video very informative and it’s good to see that you done it and telling us the hours and the job as a whole.. I want to be an Investment Banker after college and have my own firm after 💯
Good video! I worked as a banker and agree with your points. I averaged ~70 hours per week. My easiest week was probably 40ish and my worst was 117 (I counted). I only had 2 weeks over 100 hours over 1 year. Working past 100 really messes you up, I was walking around dizzy and delirious by the end.
Sounds like you had it easy. What was your bonus %?
Haha agree, 100+ is a nightmare man.
So investment banking work generally doesn't require any mentally challenging problems? As a STEM person I can't understand how you would be able to do any challenging work in that mental state...
@@developandplay What major?
@@adamfattal468 CS
2 things to keep in mind:
- After a certain amount, the mind begins shutting down and the mistakes, formula errors, etc.. increased so much that the next day is a lot of double checking last night's work. Not productive. I've been an SFA for 20 years.
- Killer hours need to be balanced with the compensation. Remember you're being paid big bucks for the pain. This is what a manager told me after I "lost it" one night.
Lol was studying finance from investing interest and was thinking into moving into finance (currently in IT), watching this video I think Im gonna stick where I am now, i go to office wearing sweat pants and sometimes (actually most of the time) work 30 hours a week if I exclude all those 2 hour lunch and napping break I take lol
Heading into the summer with an internship at a large IB as an associate. Thanks for the information.
Helloo can you also guide me in being an IB..i am a mechanical engineer graduate...please help
@@kakr8r785 pursue a MBA at a top 20 school in the US.
@@ryuken1011 as i am a mechanical engineer graduate will be like q big trouble understanding the concepts of finance and ib...will be like alone or useles...and which uni did you get in?..
@@kakr8r785 there are plenty of career switchers in my MBA program. One of my friends was a software developer from India and now he's doing a banking internship. I would prefer not to say which school but I will say it is a Ivy league school.
@@ryuken1011 thanks for the reply bro
"its mainly done in excel" oh no......
what a well done video with data to show how the day is split by hours. the biggest difficulty for me is the lack of exercise and SLEEP. those two things are killer. i know you can't have it all of course but this is so nice to see from the outside. i hate desk jobs where you don't move around often. easily gain weight and raise LDL and triglycerides and risk of diabetes. that all adds up real quick. but that;s just my side of the story. there are others who make the opposite happen in your industry., NO sour grapes from me, no sir!
Yeah! I also love your name haha
Part of the reason the culture is to work this many hours is because if you work double the hours you learn much more.
Compared to an analyst at a mutual fund or buy side real money am Ibanking analyst will learn 3x+ more and also network more
The other thing is that senior members don’t have time to work with jr members earlier in the day. Have to take care of shit with deals and clients etc. so work is dropped off later in the day which forces analysts to work more at night because you get the work at night when senior members are going home
My plan is to go from IB into private Equity. Currently in my first year at a top uni so just taking it easy making sure my grades are good and hopefully I land an internship in my second year!!
Good luck!
The 100 hour weeks are reserved for Apollo’s associates
what are those?
semi-atomic private equity firm
I found this video very informative as I am personally not in the field. I am currently a high school student and was wondering if you could make a video on what is the best way to break into the field. By this I mean major feeder schools students should focus on and things you should be adding to your resume as well as if it is possible to get in from a non-target.
Sounds good Daniel! We're actually working on a target school video and we do have a resume video already uploaded. We have a resume course where you can download our actual resumes on our website (peakframeworks.com).
he released the target school vid in case you are wondering. great u r involved this early on. def choose a good school based off what alumni say and who goes to BB and EB firms (can find on linkedin or in this dudes vid), rather than rankings like niche, usnews, etc.
Hello nice vid! I wanted to ask you something. I'm really interested in Investment Banking and Venture Capital, but I'm a bit late to the game. I'll be graduating from Business and Law at 28, because I started uni later than my peers. Is age a limiting factor in that industry? Like, do they throw you out of the selection process once you see you're older than the rest? I will try to go through anyway but was just trying to gather some opinion from people who've actually worked there.I got some working experience in unrelated industries under my belt, but I'm willing to do the sacrifice altogether. Thanks mate.
Nah I think you can still break in if you're a little older. It's harder, but every year or so I'd see someone who went to the army / got another degree who joined as an analyst.
Is it possible to make a video on your daily life as an investment banker and what are your daily roles and responsibilities? Or maybe describing what does an investment banker does?
Or how to do well in IB
I work in a corporate strategy. m-f 9-6 with an hour break. sometimes I got off at 7 or 8 but very rarely so it is 40 hours a week, and I dont work on weekend at all.
I love finance and capital markets but, I'mma be sticking with my job and trade stocks on the side lol..
i love these slide decks haha
Haha way easier than learning actual animation...
@@PeakFrameworks gotta pay it forward with those wic slide decks xd
Watching a video about IB hours to make myself feel better about my IB hours while working on a Sunday night…yeah sounds about right
The grind!
Great video. Thank you. Is 60-80 per week for analysts? Or can an associate expect the same hours?
I would say associate is a little bit less, maybe 5-10 hours less per week.
what do you think about Middle Office - ie. Risk management?
treasury has some great aspects that could translate to trading, especially FI. Risk managment became really big after the GFC, where a lot of smart, mathematical people go to which will improve your quant skills which could also go to a different arm in trading. if you want to stay in middle office, then cool, but idk why you would when front office is more exciting and pays more.
I’m going into an IB internship this summer, and this was so helpful! I’ve heard Canadian banks are more intense in terms of hours? So, we don’t get as much down time? Is that true? I’m expecting to go in at 70-80 hours but I’m not too sure whether Canadian banks tend to work more than the US?
No, I don't think that's true. I think Canadian firms tend to work less than New York. 70-80 hours is the norm in New York.
Canada has less deal flow and less intense culture.
However, if you're talking about American firms in Toronto, those tend to be more chill vs. the big 5 Canadian banks.
The alignment is on point :P No fix needed
I just sold a property in Portland and I'm thinking to put the cash in stocks, I know everyone is saying its ripe enough, but Is this a good time to buy stocks? How long until a full recovery? How are other people in the same market raking in over $450k gains within months, I'm really just confused at this point.
A robust strategy is crucial for any investor's portfolio. When it comes to making high-stakes decisions, the greater the risk, the greater the potential reward, and it's wise to seek guidance from seasoned professionals.
That does make a lot of sense, unlike us, you seem to have the Market figured out. Who is this coach?
Thank you for the lead. I searched her up, and I have sent her an email. I hope she gets back to me soon.
Long hours are rewarded in the salary. I think they need to have more work-life balance though.
Ah dude, China has got way too many boutique firms fighting for a single deal by reducing margins. This has reduced the payout to a very large extant. And there is automation of paper work.
So is like I.T without the extra hours.
Are you familiar with the term "prostitute mileage?" It's the total number of 'tricks' a pimp determines a prostitute can take before she goes insane. Is there a "mileage" concept in investment banking as well? If there is, don't you think 80 hours a week EXCEEDS that?
Haha that is a very grim thing to learn... Yeah, personally I'd say after 60 hours is where things start to become difficult. At 60 hours, you're pretty much already always thinking about work and don't have time for any hobbies.
I don't think 80 hours is sustainable for a long period of time unless you're willing to give up other parts of your life. The people who stay in banking for more than 4 years have an insane amount of endurance.
Sharpshooter649 lol is that dave chappelle
@@troyxing8717 Yeah I got it from his more "Serious" special
Sharpshooter649 ya same that’s a true capitalist maneuver. Except in this case analysts expires in two three years so they’re pretty disposable
@@troyxing8717 So if case analysts "expire" every 2 years, does that mean there is high turnover?
Matt, how about vacation time? How many days did you and your peers take your first year (July -> Dec 31), 2nd and 3rd?
-First-year analyst that keeps going back and forth on wether to take a week or not
0 my first year and then I took a week in my second year. I didn't do a third year. I probably wouldn't take vacation in first year unless everyone else in your group is doing it. If you're really busy, there will be the chance that you'll get asked to do work anyways even if you take vacation.
Is back office pay at 75k and 3k bonus worth the 50-60 hours weeks?
It depends on your target career path, but I would generally think no. From what I've seen, it's really not an effective way to break into front office in IB or to good buy side jobs. And at 50-60 hours, you'd make a lot more in corporate development or business operations.
@@PeakFrameworks do you know how I can lateral into Corp dev
People in IB usually don't do it for the money right off the bat. It's a great kickstart for your career, because everyone wants you after you've worked as an IB'er for a couple of years. However, I think you can learn a lot at different jobs too, without working as much as in IB.
Did evercore let you workout during the day / while waiting? I know that’s a big thing that keeps analysts chugging along
Group specific... my group did not. I don't think I worked out once in my first year haha! Hang in there dude!
@@PeakFrameworks ouch lol I think my group head thinks if we get big enough, we wont want to leave our seat
I saw a thread on WSO and was wondering, what was your worst week like?
Worst stretch for me was end of first year in IB. There's a stretch in the summer after the second years have left, but before the new first years have started that is notoriously bad. My analyst class was also smaller since we had a few people in my group leave to hedge funds.
I probably averaged 90+ hours for a 2-month time frame, which was really pushing my limit.
Is this for all roles across IB or just analyst?
This is specifically for analyst, but it's pretty similar (5-10 hours per week) between analyst and VP in my view.
Peak Frameworks
What about investment bankers in France? Do they work as many hours as many hours as the US or Hong Kong bankers do?
No clue... I would guess no, but never worked in France.
I just switched to finance and have so many questions regarding work/life as an investment banker. Pre-COVID what was your schedule like? were you allowed to work from home all the time or was it easier to come into work? Do you get paid time and a half after the 40 hours or was it set from the start that your salary was for 60 hours a week?
This video is based on pre-COVID figures. No, definitely not allowed to work at home all the time. Probably go home around 10-11pm or so during the weekdays and have your computer around you until midnight to 1. You don't get paid for overtime.
@@PeakFrameworks Thanks for answering my questions!
Sir is accounting degree like cpa, ACCA good for getting into investment Banking?
It's OK, it's generally better to be more direct and do something like economics / business admin at a good school.
Thanks what about back office hours. its about 55 hours to 60 hours a week.
9-5
Back office is generally 8:30 - 4:30/5 sometimes early finish on a friday. I don't know where this guy has got his hours from most investment bankers don't work this much maybe sales people do but 60 hours a week would really be the upper end of what someone would work a week even for a trader.
william bardsley IB analysts definitely work 80 hours a week (if not more). Firms like FT partners and Moelis have a reputation for exceeding those. Some boutiques (Dyal Co) work 105+ a week when on a live deal.
@@samwhaddad maybe analysts who work in m&a do but not everyone at an IB for a start M&A is front office not back office
Imhumane.
I'm glad I work at IB but as a risk manager. I work 8-11 hrs max a day.
On average, how many deals or pitches are you on at once?
In banking, probably ~3 active (i.e. you get asked for something from one of those teams once every day) and an additional 3-5 that are more dormant, where you might get asked for something once every other week. If you're on a live deal for an important project, you might get taken off of other pitches and less important projects.
Obviously really depends on market conditions and availability of other analysts, but I think that's a reasonable benchmark for my time.
welcome to 7/11...please come again! (show up at 7am and head out 11pm). It got whole lot better now I hear...
Do you think that survey of 13 Goldman analysts was inaccurate then? Were they likely blowing things out of proportion?
Could be accurate, but I would still guess exaggerated or not representative of most analysts over the course of their entire analyst program. 13 analysts is a small sample size, so could be a group that is getting crushed due to a specific factor (e.g. nasty MD, SPAC group). I have heard banking has been quite a bit worse during COVID though.
No life and a lot of money. I have both here in The Netherlands and working for the goverment. 40 hours a week for $110k a year good deal i think good luck
i have heard Netherlands is expensive though...true?
@@dhruvshounak5516 i think its ok. We pay a lot of taxes en housing is expensive. I think i spend €1750 on my morgage, internet and electricity. €100 on health insurance and €350 on food
@@JFK-1984 yeah housing is expensive...i love the cycle culture though would love to visit someday, the only problem would be i am just 5 7
I worked for a year in NL for a third of that and it already covered all my expenses easily leaving me with a ton of savings. I really wonder why people forgo their lives for those hundreds of thousands. What do you even do with all that money...?
@@ten_tego_teges i really dont know some people are just money crazed maybe
How much time an associate has to work in IB?
Similar to analyst, maybe minus 5-10 hours. So maybe 60-80 on average?
is it possible to get into investment banking in your 40s?
Very unlikely... can't think of an example where that happened unless you already worked in finance.
Yeah - I think I'll stay in Marketing, lol....... 110k a year and you go home at 5 everyday........
Haha, hard to argue with that choice!
5am?
lucky u, u probably have over 5 years experience then
@@bjeen000 PM duh
Why don’t ibs automate through Python
The work is extremely nuanced and client focused. I think there are some aspects that can be automated (like building out the first stages of a model and more presentation templates), but right now there aren't very good tools to automate every aspect of the IB job. Maybe in another 10-15 or so years we'll see fewer analyst roles.
Would I have time to get married and have children while still working in IB?
Good question
If you paid attention to the video, you would see that it would be very unlikely to find enough time to do that.
@@Financiallyfree2001 I did pay attention to the video, I was just asking a more personal question not addressed in the video.
Stfu pussies
As an analyst or associate? No. As a VP? Maybe.
I always thought the 100 hour work weeks was overblown some. 80 isn't that bad. I've been doing that for over 4+ years with working full-time, running a small prop firm and going to college full time. 80 is tough but doable and sustainable long term. 100 isn't very sustainable and the difference between 100 and 80 is much bigger as there is really no break between weeks and fatigue seems to get compounded.
Cool story bro
@@Baseballboy7197 wow, a thoughtful post!
Its funny to me... that amount of hours got me to ~10k per month by trading (mainly options). Worked alot for that but I dont get the hype about investment banking...(anymore). If its for your ego its fine but... time is the most valueable thing.
Except you get to spend your time with some really really bright people. Also most IB people do it for the exit opps that you get after a few years. Barely anyone stays to become VPs or MDs.
@@charlieallen6520 kinda true yes... Imo its alittle high. All depends on your personal goal.. some want the connections/power. Some want to be their own boss etc. Nothing is better than the other. I just think alot of people will get stuck in a lower position with work thst they dont like. Especially in finance. There is so much supply of finance majors... some will make it to nicw positions but alot will get filtered.
My son is going into finance. Yes he is interested in investment banking. But the hours are stupid. Nobody does a good job at those hours. Its stupid to ask them to do that. Work smarter not longer. There is no benefit with long hours in any profession. You will make more mistakes.
I heard in reality the so called "work" they do are some of the most menial things like editing and typeproofing their pitchbooks lol. Not bad being paid a LOT of money to do silly stuff like that.
And printing, binding, and delivering said books!
easier said than done. If it was an easy job they wouldnt get paid so much
Depends if you're on the buyside or sell side...
No. You are the one that’s silly
@@dxiao3196 oh sweet innocence
So in the end, you work for minimum wage.
What’s the salary? Would be curious to see a hourly rate calculation
Not quite minimum, probably still between $30-$40 per hour as a 1st year analyst.
lol most do not work 60-80 hours if they say that they are lying. Reading news online doesn't count as work. Most work between 45-60 hours. Just off the bat most of the hardest working IB employees do not start at 8:30 most traders have to be in for 6:45 because the markets open at 7am GMT then work until around 5-7pm depending on if they are busy.
which btw is still almost double what the average worker in the US is working per week.
Traders can leave as soon as markets close pretty much
No amount of money is worth me working 80hrs a week for a company I don’t own….fuck that
Not worth it.
You weren't given life /youth to work.
Depends on your priorities. I’d rather spend 2-3 years working in IB and learn the ins and outs of finance, and be able to move into pretty much anything in the corporate world afterwards than work 9-5 at some average job that doesn’t train you as much
@@ManMan-ul1pn You can learn more about finance and the
ins and out" outside of investment banking. Investment banking only teaches you about investment banking. There are corporate finance jobs that give good expsoure and work life balance and good pay.... and good life.. to teach you about finance and whatever else outside of finance you need to learn to be good at life.
@@dseer1395 Like what?
@@dseer1395 yeah like what? really curious about this
This is crazy and definitely not worth it.
It's not an interesting job.
Doesnt sound like something Jesus would say ... keep your head up bro
the haircut though ... i will make you work extra if you dont fix it
How could this job appeal to anyone. This is no life. You cant take all that money to the grave.
embarrassing
His intentional lowering of his voice at the end of a phrase makes me cringe a little.
The reason people in investment banking work so long hours, is because they are inefficient...If they were good at their job, they would be able to get it all done within 40 hours... just a thought... they’re either really crap and slow at their job... or they are really crap at negotiating their workload... either way, they are inefficient and only have themselves to blame for working long hours...
Not quite. If you get in the office at 9am and get work at 11am, 4pm, 7pm and 9pm, you’re going to have work a lot
Is this for all roles across IB or just analyst?
Mostly analyst, but I'd say it's pretty similar between analyst and VP...