What do Firms / Headhunters Really Care About?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
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Finance firms and headhunters are ultimately looking for hard working and smart candidates that they can get along with. Hiring is a very difficult process even for firms, so they often rely on several external markers when making this decision. I find that your firm and your school still matter the most when it comes to getting interviews.
After that, I think your geography and the deals you're doing have the most influence, followed by networking, clubs and finally your grades. What's important to recognize is that if you're already in the workforce, you should focus on things that you can change. Focus on getting better deals and putting in time every week to expand your network.
0:00 - Intro
1:15 - What Headhunters Look For
2:58 - Ranking Criteria for Candidates
7:24 - What to Focus On Now
Peak Frameworks is a business career prep service started by Matt Ting and Patrick Fong, who have each spent several years working in investment banking and private equity in New York and Silicon Valley. Matt and Patrick met at Evercore, a top tier investment bank, and over the years have tutored and coached dozens of candidates to land their dream business job.
Matt Ting: / matthewting
Patrick Fong (HBS 2021): / patrick-fong-0b773041
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Your point about how much school / firm matters is really accurate. Coming from a semi-target + lower tier BB I found it significantly harder to get PE interviews than folks who, honestly, went to Princeton or whatnot. I ultimately transitioned into SWE and am now significantly happier as a result. Tech is markedly more meritocratic where traditional notions of prestige don’t really apply - while compensation can be quite excellent too (Senior Managers / Directors in FAANG can make 1M+).
That makes total sense. I think school matters less over time, but for PE when there isn't a lot of data points, firms still tend to rely a lot on school unfortunately.
what did you major in? If it was commerce based (finance, accounting, etc) did you have to go back and study computer science or a tech related degree or did you get into SWE with a commerce based degree
very helpful thanks!
V informative thanks !
Hey Matt, any insight on when On-Cycle will likely happen this year? Your videos are great by the way.
I share more detailed recruiting updates with people in our course, but the short of it is that it'll most likely be virtual and likely be delayed. HHs haven't finished reaching out to all the firms yet (last year was September), so it's hard to imagine it being the same timing. I would guess November if I had to at this point, but it's kind of impossible to pin down decisively.
Hey Matt! Thanks for the awesome video. Any thoughts on how acceptance into a deferred M7 MBA program could play into PE recruiting?
Do you mean in terms of helping your candidacy? I think having HSW might help, but don't think the others would help that much. Even then, I don't think having Wharton pre-acceptance would be that helpful because that's kind of the baseline for people in PE. I remember people being impressed with H/S pre-acceptance because there are so few spots.
Can you make a video for those who are interested in breaking into PE/HFs, who may not necessarily have a traditional background. i.e. haven't done investment banking before etc.
Good suggestion, will put it on the list.
I wonder who are the best headhunters in Europe and Asia for an average person interested I moving.
Hey Matt, I’m a freshman in college right now, when you talk about “getting deals” or “your firm” do you mean in the context of internships? As in, be sure to get an internship at a firm with deals?
This refers to people pursuing more experienced roles, so "getting deals" is like getting put on important projects in investment banking. "Your firm" is the investment bank you're at.
For you, the closest equivalent is just getting good experience with finance clubs. I'd focus on that
Hi Matt nice Video as always! I just missed how important your age is. What if one gets into a finance study path at 20 or 25? I find it very hard to believe that everybody knows at 16 that they want to do IB. I am currently studying business administration and Engineering at a german target and iam trying to evaluate if that put the nail in my finance coffin 😅
However, keep on with the great work!
20 is not too late! I think I started focusing on finance a lot at 20. Most people don't know anything about finance until freshman or sophomore year of school. If you're 25 and you have no business experience, you'll probably need an MBA. Good luck!
@@PeakFrameworks thank you for your motivating answer! I already have a lot of business experience because im creating presentations and training people in IT at a big medical company. The problem is that aside from managing people and doing powerpoint its the completely wrong business. Im thinking of doing a second bachelor in economics at a target university because the economic classes im taking right now are a pure joke compared to the engineering classes im taking.
Anyway thanl you for your videos! They are giving people like me hope that there is still a chance :)
Hey Matt, thanks for the video but I have a follow up question. What do you think about the relevance of extracurricular stuff like being a tutor in a relevant field (fin. accounting, finance..)? Could that be a significant advantage for an application?
I think tutor would be a very, very minor benefit. Might be completely neutral. Good extracurriculars would be executive of investment or finance club, winning stock pitch competitions, publishing finance articles on Seeking Alpha / your own blog.
Peak Frameworks Thank you for this helpful answer!
What would you recommend for someone without a finance background who is aiming to go into finance after an MBA? (M7)
Never too early to start networking and figuring out what you want to do. Maybe start an investing / finance blog to show you're really interested in finance. If you have no prior finance work, you'll need other indicators that prove you're interested and competent in finance.
Can you make a video for PE recruiting in London/Europe?
Ah, I unfortunately don't know too much about London/Europe as I've never worked there. If you have specific questions I can ask my friends, but don't expect a primer any time soon.
In Europe do we call this industry Private Equity also?
Brits may have other name for it.
Hey I was going to make a comment that his advice should not be taken verbatim for Europe. I am an American who has battled both sides. I say battle because I made the mistake that the process, how I will be perceived would be similar in both geographies and I was dead wrong. I would even advise the channel to put explicitly this advice is applicable to North America only. If I had the time I would even start my own consultancy for European buy side recruiting because it is MUCH more opaque and a few stakeholders have a huge say, which I have seen made other people’s lives either a dream or living hell.
@@dbsk06 So you could say its easier in Europe?
@@THEMRblackboy7thst not really it s just very different
From what I know it's gonna depend on your contacts with headhunters and personal connexion within firms (e.g. you know a LP of a PE fund, he introduces you to the fund and its GP s, you get the interview)
Also extremely important in Europe (probably the most important if you are recruiting for MM PE rather than MF PE) are language skills. Some firms like PAI, 3i, Waterland, IK, Ardian etc have very strong geography focus towards certains European countries
So speaking Swedish at IK, French at Ardian or Dutch at Waterland will be expected.
Outside of these mentioned criterias, the focus tends to be similar than in the US , certainly for MF
1. Bank GS/ MS / JPM / Rothschild / Lazard (other US elite boutiques like MoCo, PWP, Evercore etc are weaker in Europe)
2. School: basically Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, Imperial, LBS, HEC Paris, St Gällen and all the other schools come after
3. Networking : but here it s a little more controversial, no guides or career consultants will tell you that but trust me your name and in a snobby European way, the potential Nobility attached to it will matter. Many EU countries still have Nobility titles and many of these families have family offices that are LP of the big European PE firms. Look at the "team" Page of certain funds. You will see a ton of " Baron/ count/ duke XYZ von/ van/ de ABC" This Is especially true for certain countries / fund where these families are still socialites like the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Germany, Sweden
In that category, I would also add your highschool, if you went to Eton, Harrow, Rugby, Sevenoaks, Le Rosey, etc it wont hurt either.
If you went to a non-target undergrad but did a one year masters (such as an MSF) at a semi-target or target, would you be viewed as more of a non-target alumni or semi-target/target alumni for PE recruiting?
I think you'd be viewed kind of as a hybrid candidate. I've seen a couple people try to rebrand based on their masters degree and do it successfully (not even listing their undergrad on LinkedIn). Depends a bit on how good the masters degree is. A one year masters at Columbia can be pretty good for example.
Would you recommend getting a masters in finance directly after undergrad if the school you’re at for undergrad isn’t really known by anyone? Can this help with getting an IB or consulting position?
Well you should definitely just try to recruit as a non-target, but if you're getting little traction then a 1 year's masters can be solid. Can definitely help with getting something in IB or consulting if it's a good program; look at the track record of the program.
Great video as always! I actually have a random question not related to this topic: do employees at P.E/V.C firms are allowed to invest their own money in companies the firm do business with? Thanks
Depends on the firm, but yes, this is referred to as "co-investing". Firms do it differently and it tends to be more accessible the more senior you get. A lot of associates won't have access to this at the big firms.
Hi Matt!
Do you think Georgetown, UChicago, and UVA are considered target schools for PE firms? How would you rank these schools in terms of likelihood of breaking into PE?
They are, but you won't get into a PE firm directly from undergrad. Ranking goes from Chicago, Georgetown, UVA.
Hi Matt. I'm working in the risk department at an American Bulge Bracket firm in India(just graduated one of India's top Engineering colleges in 2020). Any tips on how I can break into PE/front office IB?
Network aggressively, try to switch into a different role internally. Be willing to move offices. If this fails for 1 year, maybe switch to a smaller firm.
I will be studying at one of UBC or U of T. both are very well regarded in Canada, but I was wondering if one of these names would be considered a "good" School in the US?
Probably U of T has better name recognition, but neither are going to be impressive in the U.S.
Does networking really matter if most interviews are granted through headhunters? Most 2nd years I know who recruited on-cycle never talked to anyone at their firms apart from maybe coffee chats that the HH set up. Feel like it's a bit awkward cold-emailing people in PE (exception for those whom you know personally) when everyone across the board may be getting crushed right now
I won't go into full detail publicly but I do think networking does matter. Per the video, it's not the biggest variable, but it can be the best use of your time if you're already fully prepped. A lot of firms will have headhunters handle the big pile of resumes but still respond to good candidates who reach out. Lots of people grab coffee outside of the typical headhunter process and it can sometimes be your only way into specific firms.
Think about if you do poorly in a specific headhunter interview but still want one of the firms they represent. Headhunters will also only naturally give each candidate a few interviews (to maximize their chances), so it can be helpful to make your own luck as well.
There are also some firms that don't use headhunters.
Last year might be more of an exception because recruiting kicked off way earlier than normal so there was less coffee chats, networking, and info sessions altogether.
The thing about networking is that the downside is pretty low. Maybe it takes some time to reach out, but if you come with thoughtful questions you'll likely improve your chances vs. just relying on HHs.
what are the possibilities of moving from asset management into banking very early in a career? thanks for the great videos.
What do you specifically mean by asset management (like which firms or jobs)? If you mean any of HF, PE, pension funds, real estate investing, infra, or long only funds, then your chances are very high coming out of banking. Banking is a direct feeder to most buy side roles.
@@PeakFrameworks Thanks for the reply. I'm speaking more to the case of someone who was late to the IB recruiting cycle in undergrad and landed at a large asset manager (ie BlackRock, Fidelity). In your experience, did you see people coming from these places into IB very early in their careers to set themselves up better to land in a PE role after 2 or 3 years? Thank you!
How does on-cycle and off-cycle work for IB firms that are not open to PE recruiting?
Most IB firms will still let their people recruit or associates will cover. Sometimes analysts will get screwed over anyways, but I would say virtually all the top talent I know still made it work. Rarer exceptions like Centerview might boot you if they find out you're recruiting in your first year
Do you think it's possible with Big4 background? I'm going into their Deal Advisory practice and have heard people making the move into a IB analyst position.
Yes for sure, deal advisory is a great group to lateral to banking. Might take some time, but I see tons of people do it. Some go direct to buyside too.
Depends on which department your in for Deals. FDD and TS are more sought after, the rest - tough luck.
P.S. - I work in deals at big 4.
@@fukyoubutz @anonymous T Yea in FDD
In terms of networking, do I need to network with the higher-ups like VPs or am I okay with having a decent relationship with an analyst or associate?
For banking, second year analysts and associates are good. You ideally want to know whoever is going to be a second year analyst when you are recruiting for a summer internship (so probably 2-3 years older than you). For PE, I think VPs are best. You essentially just want to talk to whoever is going to be looking through resumes.
@@PeakFrameworks thx for the reply!
Can you please tell me how to find the right person to monetize my knowledge?
how much do you know about recruiting into equity research roles at BB?
Medium, I have a decent amount of friends who have done the ER path. It's a lot more lenient on school / background and there are a lot of mid-career switchers to it.
@@PeakFrameworks how common is it to switch from ER to IB?
is dartmouth a target school for banking ?
Yes, Dartmouth does great.
GMAT score?
Hey Justin, undergrad here going to MBB for a summer in consulting. I go to a complete nontarget - will these preclude me from UMM/MF deal teams? Should I recruit for top tier banking full time? Curious as to what you think my situation is given how important the school you go to is.
I would probably stay MBB if there are no banking hires from your school. No harm in networking and seeing what chances you can get for IB, but I'd only switch out of MBB for an above average bank (GS, MS, EVR, JP, BofA, a few others).
MBB is great but people's outcomes vary a LOT, some people land top funds, but some don't get looks. I think McKinsey places best. Also my name is Matt :)
How do I find headhunters on LinkedIn?
You can look up headhunter firms, go to their websites to check bios, and then look them up on LinkedIn.
I love your stuff I’m a sophomore in high school
Is UT Austin a semi target school?
I'd even consider them a full target. UT Austin is a great school for banking.
@@PeakFrameworks Banking and private equity or simply banking?
What about Texas a&m?
Do immigrants have a chance in finance