@@studiocorax8790 Fair enough, we'll agree to disagree. I'm American, and culturally we are *more* radicalized than Brits, I think Peter's reflections are closer to reality, so are his solutions.
@@rosemaryalles6043 You said of Peter, *"He's pragmatic, intelligent and clear."* Not always. Sometimes, he fails at things that a child should get correct.
I agree with Kathleen. It’s the narrowing of acceptable ideas that’s the problem. I also think if a field makes axiomatic claims, eg sex isn’t real, which is an empirical claim, then the journals that publish for that field should open itself up to publishing papers that show empirical evidence that refutes that claim. Divorcing humans, as too much of the humanities fields do, from being part of the animal kingdom is what has allowed them to make claims about humans that are empirically false when we are situated within eukaryotes, Animalia, mammalia, and primates.
Any discipline in which you study who you are, e.g., Women's Studies, various ethnic studies, etc., have become the home of activist interest groups within the university. It's not that these subjects can't be academically rigorous, it's just that they often aren't.
I agree with vocational schools being sorely needed. Universities are structured on the Middle Ages, but without the sound philosophy they had, so it's mostly delusional. Better to just do things and be useful.
And who was it that ruined the journal system by turning it into a for profit enterprise in order to stifle innovation and control discovery? Robert Maxwell, father of Ghislaine. MI6 asset.
I wasn't aware that Kathleen Stock had such a fair view of the subject! Common sense changes over time and deserves to be questioned; our language structures our perceptions and can distort our reality. Bearing these in mind, yes - even gender studies is part of an overall effort to dig into what is really going on beneath the surface. To throw the whole thing away because it offends your "common sense" is to completely fail to engage with their ideas and to miss the point of philosophy and academic inquiry entirely.
There is a lot of room for working class cultural movements where people are given the oppurtunity to learn about their ancestral literary inheritance with the sort of reverance and respect that it deserves. It might also help reinvigorate civil society by fostering connections between people.
I know you've been told in the USA people have civil rights... In practice, what happened is HR and administration were given the responsibility of enforcing them. Which is arguably the creation of extralegal kangaroo courts. (These multinational corporations are starting to look functionally like sovereigns...) Then, HR and administration were contractually obligated to reach (and not reach) certain conclusions when it comes to liabilities. This process is a complete joke, with absolutely no rights for the accused, or the accuser, and no obligations for HR. Which is why the private sector still appears highly nepotistic, and largely segregated. It's still not what you know, it's who you know that gets you ahead in these organizations in the US. Which is part of the reason why competence is becoming so scarce. You can't have a discussion of DEI in academia without bringing up HR and administration. Also, if you're an academic, you have to truthfully report when you're under contractual obligations to reach certain conclusions. Every culture has its own problems with academic freedom. You're never going to be purely free academically, but the constraints should at least be well documented. (You can legally sign people up to say and not say certain things, but it comes at a cost of credibility, and any academic, journalist, or court with integrity is going to recognize that lack of credibility. That's what you get for listening to your lawyers too much - zero credibility.)
Peter should get the band back together and produce a paper showing how the replication crisis in social science experiments proves that humans are indeed biological tabla rasas.
"The problem is not that those ideas are there. The problem is that no other ideas are allowed in and that is anti-intellectual." Right on! Also you don't have to destroy the insitution just cut off the money.
This goes right to undergraduate admissions where applications for entry and scholarships routinely require applicants submit essays clearly scored on aligning with the preferred narrative about (critical) social justice issues.
We now have the government-educational-industrial complex. To match the goverment-military-industrial-complex. Likewise medical. Likewise national parks. Some modern form of fascism we've never seen before.
Boghossian is on a crusade to tear everything down and start anew - like reinventing the wheel. I find him extreme in his views sometimes. Kathleen Stock is much more reasonable and realistic and she has been through a lot of shit about this subject and speaks from experience.
Didn't certain mid century Germans have to burn down the social sciences departments at universities , the mind viruses retreated back to the UK and US and here we are😢
Kathleen Stock adds intelligence and nuance to the discussion, and it’s badly needed with a gasbag like Boghossian spewing his sweeping generalizations.
You are very right. I dont know how he got branded a philosopher. Kathleen was my professor. Im a little confused as to how she could speak with Boghossian in the first place.
Stock's reactions to Boghossian's ideological brio is refreshing and much needed -- as is some of the latter's overblown 'realist' critique of 'the studies'.
Yes. So much extremism appears to come from places like Oxford. I was talking to a ex politics student recently and he thought reading and following the teachings of marx was a badge of honour, he was using Marx as a base to change our country. Dispite his education and love if Marx this guy lived at home with his mum and had barely worked a day in his life!!
Well, he is correct. There are serious issues with the peer reviewed system as it is. But the idea that it's caused by people wanting to push a narrative is myopic and ignorant. Those people are all over the place and always have been. The peer review system was created to battle them. The problem is that somehow being published has been tied to success such that people want to be published as much as possible and academic journals want it too so they can reap the money that everyone pays for their overpriced journals. The result is that the peer review process has been complete overwhelmed and has shut down, basically nonfunctional. So these people that he thinks are creating this are really just capitalizing on a opportunity that is the result of this over abundance of academic articles.
I understand what Ms. Stock is saying, I think, she feels that reality isn't defined (I think that is her primus) and Peter is saying we have to stick to reality-which she is unclear on personally or academically what that is and enjoys the freedom to explore in thought games.
I’m not joking, I bought a book called the Bright Ages - A New History of Medieval Europe from Matthew Grabriele & David M. Perry. They are known university professors. I thought it was going to be so much fun. To my surprise, on page XIV Introduction, they mention Coovidd199 and whitee-ssupremacyy. I could not believe it. What else are they going to ruin? Recipe books?
I nearly grabbed this book too, but read a few reviews along the same lines as yours and decided to pass on it. I don't trust anything with the slightest whiff of that junk!
Kathleen Stock is right. The problem is not a bunch of extreme ideas, the problem is the absence of a multitude of ideas. And btw, Peter appears as if he never studied the history of his own subject.
yes, Post Truth is the age that we live in … ultimately with AI being unregulated (& its development actively encouraged …) there’s probably no hope 🤨 reality is lost 😡 question is who’s going to start the process ? who’s going to do the policing ?
Teach kids to actually DO something: build, create or fix things so they can go out & get a real job instead of whining about microaggressions or how "oppressed" they are. Enough!!
So if someone says something like "Joe Biden is doing a great job", am I not supposed to simply respond with 🤡 face? I have to put the rational argument as to why that person is clearly a 🤡? If so, I may as well just look at a wall, as I don't have time to put everyone right.
We should keep in mind that the world we live in today, came not from the universities of England but the workshops, and dissenting academies. Oxford/Cambridge were ideologically captured finishing schools from the Reformation to about 1870. The universities have again been ideologically capture, well most and the most known. The college fetishists are just going to have to come to terms with the reality that universities are now religious schools. The knowledge/facts are freed from the campus and becoming educated in the true definition of the word is near impossible on the modern campus "Newcomen's religion had consequences greater than absence from a local census. Dissenters, including Baptists, Presbyterians, and others, were as a class, excluded from universities after 1660, and either apprenticed, or learned their science from dissenting academies." "At the same time that he chartered the world's first scientific society, Charles II had created an entire generation of dissenting intellectuals uncontrolled by his kingdom's ever more technophobic universities." --Rosen, Willam, 'The Most Powerful Idea in the World'
West democracies nowadays got almost the same level of freedom of speech as autocracies, the only difference is the topic which you can’t talk about. The fact that this kind of thing exists in democratic societies makes democracy looks strange) what kind of democracy is it if there is propaganda and if it’s using same tools as authoritarian governments?
@@ajs41 It sounds like you have a preference for war, if that's how you think about it. Personally, I spread blame more widely. The dumbed down media, the politicians and businesses that profit from division, and the credulous, simple people that buy into binary thinking.
I will be forever grateful to you, you changed my whole life and I will continue to preach on your behalf for the whole world to hear you saved me from huge financial debt with just a small investment, thank you. Jorgen Barkley
The first step to successful investing is figuring out your goals and risk tolerance either on your own or with the help of a financial professional but is very advisable you make use of a professional.
I started investing in may 2023, today I have 70k invested. I haven't changed anything about mine, I live as if I earned minimum wage. I invest 80% of everything I earn. Towards 100k. I'm 39 years old and my only regret is not having started sooner.
Wow. I'm a bit perplexed seeing him been mentioned here also Didn't know he has been good to so many people too this is wonderful, I'm in my fifth trade with him and it has been super.
Digging a hole just to fill it up again = something not worth doing. If you do it well, you might be able to dig very big holes…but it’s still not worth doing.
If we pretend long enough, we can pretend ourselves right back to the Stone Age. Ignoring truths, has become an epidemic.
Peter is right. He's pragmatic, intelligent and clear. He has moral clarity. Let's stop deluding ourselves.
I disagree with him. The problem is not the ideas he is calling ridiculous, the problem is the lack of ideas alternative to them.
@@studiocorax8790 Assuming you watched the whole episode. He lays out multiple measures as alternatives. The key alternative being "new" institutions.
I watched it. Some of the things he says I agree with. Kathleen clearly appears as the wise one in the full episode as well though.
@@studiocorax8790 Fair enough, we'll agree to disagree. I'm American, and culturally we are *more* radicalized than Brits, I think Peter's reflections are closer to reality, so are his solutions.
@@rosemaryalles6043
You said of Peter, *"He's pragmatic, intelligent and clear."*
Not always. Sometimes, he fails at things that a child should get correct.
Activism vs. careerism. Brilliant. That sums it up nice & neat.
I agree with Kathleen. It’s the narrowing of acceptable ideas that’s the problem. I also think if a field makes axiomatic claims, eg sex isn’t real, which is an empirical claim, then the journals that publish for that field should open itself up to publishing papers that show empirical evidence that refutes that claim. Divorcing humans, as too much of the humanities fields do, from being part of the animal kingdom is what has allowed them to make claims about humans that are empirically false when we are situated within eukaryotes, Animalia, mammalia, and primates.
Any discipline in which you study who you are, e.g., Women's Studies, various ethnic studies, etc., have become the home of activist interest groups within the university. It's not that these subjects can't be academically rigorous, it's just that they often aren't.
I agree with vocational schools being sorely needed.
Universities are structured on the Middle Ages, but without the sound philosophy they had, so it's mostly delusional.
Better to just do things and be useful.
It's publish-or-perish that has done so much damage. Just like any other field that would focus on sheer output rather than quality. 🤷
And who was it that ruined the journal system by turning it into a for profit enterprise in order to stifle innovation and control discovery? Robert Maxwell, father of Ghislaine. MI6 asset.
The problem IS that those ideas axiomatically depend on the notion that they cannot be questioned.
I wasn't aware that Kathleen Stock had such a fair view of the subject! Common sense changes over time and deserves to be questioned; our language structures our perceptions and can distort our reality. Bearing these in mind, yes - even gender studies is part of an overall effort to dig into what is really going on beneath the surface. To throw the whole thing away because it offends your "common sense" is to completely fail to engage with their ideas and to miss the point of philosophy and academic inquiry entirely.
There is a lot of room for working class cultural movements where people are given the oppurtunity to learn about their ancestral literary inheritance with the sort of reverance and respect that it deserves. It might also help reinvigorate civil society by fostering connections between people.
I know you've been told in the USA people have civil rights...
In practice, what happened is HR and administration were given the responsibility of enforcing them.
Which is arguably the creation of extralegal kangaroo courts. (These multinational corporations are starting to look functionally like sovereigns...)
Then, HR and administration were contractually obligated to reach (and not reach) certain conclusions when it comes to liabilities.
This process is a complete joke, with absolutely no rights for the accused, or the accuser, and no obligations for HR.
Which is why the private sector still appears highly nepotistic, and largely segregated.
It's still not what you know, it's who you know that gets you ahead in these organizations in the US. Which is part of the reason why competence is becoming so scarce.
You can't have a discussion of DEI in academia without bringing up HR and administration.
Also, if you're an academic, you have to truthfully report when you're under contractual obligations to reach certain conclusions.
Every culture has its own problems with academic freedom. You're never going to be purely free academically, but the constraints should at least be well documented.
(You can legally sign people up to say and not say certain things, but it comes at a cost of credibility, and any academic, journalist, or court with integrity is going to recognize that lack of credibility. That's what you get for listening to your lawyers too much - zero credibility.)
Absolutely. We've been back-room co-opted out of our rights. Our system indeed has metastatic cancer.
No, just defund them.
Yes, and let's get back to rituals: rain dances, sacrifices and full moon madness etc sound just perfect..
@@TheEngarn Full Marxist revolution is better?
Peter should get the band back together and produce a paper showing how the replication crisis in social science experiments proves that humans are indeed biological tabla rasas.
"The problem is not that those ideas are there. The problem is that no other ideas are allowed in and that is anti-intellectual." Right on! Also you don't have to destroy the insitution just cut off the money.
Peter is absolutely right and he destroyed the pretentious Kathleen in this debate.
This goes right to undergraduate admissions where applications for entry and scholarships routinely require applicants submit essays clearly scored on aligning with the preferred narrative about (critical) social justice issues.
We now have the government-educational-industrial complex. To match the goverment-military-industrial-complex. Likewise medical. Likewise national parks. Some modern form of fascism we've never seen before.
Boghossian is on a crusade to tear everything down and start anew - like reinventing the wheel. I find him extreme in his views sometimes. Kathleen Stock is much more reasonable and realistic and she has been through a lot of shit about this subject and speaks from experience.
Thank you for fixing the sound!
Two people I admire
It's not a matter of if, but when. Now.
Anyone who thinks this condition wasn't planned is too naive to be helpful.
Yesssss!🔥 🔥 🔥
@3:00, these so called academics do not want to be challenged on their pet theory, and data-massaged conclusions
Yes
Didn't certain mid century Germans have to burn down the social sciences departments at universities , the mind viruses retreated back to the UK and US and here we are😢
Universities should be elite institutions. One third of population at most. Highest IQ and demonstrated achievement
Kathleen Stock adds intelligence and nuance to the discussion, and it’s badly needed with a gasbag like Boghossian spewing his sweeping generalizations.
You are very right. I dont know how he got branded a philosopher. Kathleen was my professor. Im a little confused as to how she could speak with Boghossian in the first place.
Yes we should.
Staring at a wall is actually great training! Im almost a master myslef 😅
Stock's reactions to Boghossian's ideological brio is refreshing and much needed -- as is some of the latter's overblown 'realist' critique of 'the studies'.
YES
Yes. So much extremism appears to come from places like Oxford. I was talking to a ex politics student recently and he thought reading and following the teachings of marx was a badge of honour, he was using Marx as a base to change our country. Dispite his education and love if Marx this guy lived at home with his mum and had barely worked a day in his life!!
Sadly, academics, the administrative tier in particular, have become cushy careers, similar to the politician. The activists are entrenched.
Well, he is correct. There are serious issues with the peer reviewed system as it is. But the idea that it's caused by people wanting to push a narrative is myopic and ignorant. Those people are all over the place and always have been. The peer review system was created to battle them. The problem is that somehow being published has been tied to success such that people want to be published as much as possible and academic journals want it too so they can reap the money that everyone pays for their overpriced journals. The result is that the peer review process has been complete overwhelmed and has shut down, basically nonfunctional. So these people that he thinks are creating this are really just capitalizing on a opportunity that is the result of this over abundance of academic articles.
I understand what Ms. Stock is saying, I think, she feels that reality isn't defined (I think that is her primus) and Peter is saying we have to stick to reality-which she is unclear on personally or academically what that is and enjoys the freedom to explore in thought games.
Good god you are one misinformed youtube commenter. If anyone is clear on reality, then they havent studied anything, ever.
We are all honours level now!
The worms have hollowed out western education 😂
I’m not joking, I bought a book called the Bright Ages - A New History of Medieval Europe from Matthew Grabriele & David M. Perry. They are known university professors. I thought it was going to be so much fun. To my surprise, on page XIV Introduction, they mention Coovidd199 and whitee-ssupremacyy. I could not believe it. What else are they going to ruin? Recipe books?
I nearly grabbed this book too, but read a few reviews along the same lines as yours and decided to pass on it. I don't trust anything with the slightest whiff of that junk!
Kathleen Stock is right. The problem is not a bunch of extreme ideas, the problem is the absence of a multitude of ideas. And btw, Peter appears as if he never studied the history of his own subject.
University is where you can accumulate enough debt to take a lifetime to pay back.
Guys this doesn't work so lets be sure and keep doing it in perpetuity.
Glad I didn't complete my graduate thesis!
The Academic Industrial Complex.
What an incredibly dumb question.
yes, Post Truth is the age that we live in … ultimately with AI being unregulated (& its development actively encouraged …) there’s probably no hope 🤨
reality is lost 😡
question is who’s going to start the process ? who’s going to do the policing ?
Defund them at least
Teach kids to actually DO something: build, create or fix things so they can go out & get a real job instead of whining about microaggressions or how "oppressed" they are. Enough!!
So if someone says something like "Joe Biden is doing a great job", am I not supposed to simply respond with 🤡 face? I have to put the rational argument as to why that person is clearly a 🤡?
If so, I may as well just look at a wall, as I don't have time to put everyone right.
We should keep in mind that the world we live in today, came not from the universities of England but the workshops, and dissenting academies. Oxford/Cambridge were ideologically captured finishing schools from the Reformation to about 1870. The universities have again been ideologically capture, well most and the most known.
The college fetishists are just going to have to come to terms with the reality that universities are now religious schools. The knowledge/facts are freed from the campus and becoming educated in the true definition of the word is near impossible on the modern campus
"Newcomen's religion had consequences greater than absence from a local census. Dissenters, including Baptists, Presbyterians, and others, were as a class, excluded from universities after 1660, and either apprenticed, or learned their science from dissenting academies."
"At the same time that he chartered the world's first scientific society, Charles II had created an entire generation of dissenting intellectuals uncontrolled by his kingdom's ever more technophobic universities."
--Rosen, Willam, 'The Most Powerful Idea in the World'
West democracies nowadays got almost the same level of freedom of speech as autocracies, the only difference is the topic which you can’t talk about. The fact that this kind of thing exists in democratic societies makes democracy looks strange) what kind of democracy is it if there is propaganda and if it’s using same tools as authoritarian governments?
Aha 8:01 is Kathleen Stock the "Bertrand Russell" of gender psychology? Questioning all the basic assumptions and returning to first principles?
Disco Inferno!
Inciting Violence is what you do when you can’t persuade an audience
exactly. just like government.
if you have to ask, youre part of the problem.
😢🙄🙄🙄❤
Uhh yeah, plagiarism is the problem here...Bogossian is a Manchurian candidate over here
Peter perhaps you should be asking her if she has her “pet Troon” on a leash somewhere close by
Anybody else sick of all this culture war shite?
Yes but I mostly blame the left for it.
I’m tired of people ignoring reality and pretending
@@ajs41 Don't forget to blame right wing clowns in the US like Christopher Rufo and Ronald Desantis
@@ajs41 It sounds like you have a preference for war, if that's how you think about it.
Personally, I spread blame more widely. The dumbed down media, the politicians and businesses that profit from division, and the credulous, simple people that buy into binary thinking.
@@ywtccthe left started this nonsense. We are not going to just roll over and left the aburdity continue unchallenged. To do so would be suicide.
Peter imagines that the peer review construct is vulnerable to attack and takedown
I will be forever grateful to you, you changed my whole life and I will continue to preach on your behalf for the whole world to hear you saved me from huge financial debt with just a small investment, thank you. Jorgen Barkley
The first step to successful investing is figuring out your goals and risk tolerance either on your own or with the help of a financial professional but is very advisable you make use of a professional.
I started investing in may 2023, today I have 70k invested. I haven't changed anything about mine, I live as if I earned minimum wage. I invest 80% of everything I earn.
Towards 100k. I'm 39 years old and my only regret is not having started sooner.
Wow. I'm a bit perplexed seeing him
been mentioned here also Didn't know he has been good to so many people too this is wonderful, I'm in my fifth trade with him and it has been super.
I'm new at this, please how can I reach him?
I have seen many positive reviews about him.
Please how can I contact him?
oh kathleen, my lost love 😥
Why would you love a spineless centrist?
@@StratumPress Kathleen has demonstrated more backbone than most in academia.
"If it's not worth doing, it's not worth doing well" is the DUMBEST thing I've ever heard.
Digging a hole just to fill it up again = something not worth doing.
If you do it well, you might be able to dig very big holes…but it’s still not worth doing.
Listen to yourself for just a little bit; you're sure to top that line.
Sounds very likely to me that you don't understand it.
Yes.
Bye.