My Custom Dante-Based Video Production Intercom System
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- An in-depth look at the custom intercom system I've built for my video production company, utilizing Dante to move audio between members of my crew.
Product Information / Buy Links:
Behringer X32 Rack Mixer - djp.li/x32rack
Behringer X-Dante Card - djp.li/xdante
Yamaha TF3 Mixer - djp.li/tf3
Yamaha Tio1608-D Stage Box - djp.li/tio1608
Studio Technologies 372A - djp.li/st372a
Audio Technica BPHS1 Headsets - djp.li/bphs1
HyperX Cloud Stinger - djp.li/stinger
Blackmagic Design Studio Converter - djp.li/bmdsc
Audinate AVIO Dante Adapters - djp.li/avio
Blackmagic Design Camera Converter - djp.li/bmdcc
AVLifesavers Clear-Com Interface - djp.li/ccint
Hollyland MARS T1000 - djp.li/marst1000
elgato Stream Deck - djp.li/streamdeck
BitFocus Companion - djp.li/companion
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Great minds think alike Doug. I have a similar setup. I decided to go Dante with comms and announcers about a year ago. Its been great!!!
Hey Doug, sweet setup! Glad you're a fan of our intercom beltpacks.
Big fan!
This is very good Doug. Dante is quite the awesome technology that can be utilized for A LOT of things
wow! that's everything sorted out, awesome video.
Doug, you are a wealth of knowledge thank you for all of your content.
Thanks Doug !
that was awesome - thanks
This is so awesome! Excellent job and thank you for explaining it all.
Finally. Been waiting on this. Thank you.
last time you used the X-AIR, I was hoping you got the X32-R. This system is still bang for the buck! Hope you can post the schematics of this setup too!
I don't think I'll be taking the time to draw up a schematic. You can infer from the screen shots in this video how things are connected.
Howdy Doug! Absolutely LOVE your DIY / Gyro Gearhead approach on production gear & solutions. Learned a lot - Thanks!
Awesome, thank you!
Thanks DJ, we've got Dante coming and have NO intercom system speced out. At least, the one we have specked is quite unaffordable.
Thanks for the video.... I might have to watch it a few times to understand. Q: is sound at 16:45 ok, the wireless test.
It is accurate. There are two things going on here. First, the mics have a gate on them, allegedly to cut down on background noise. But what it means, in effect, is that you have to talk pretty loudly in order for the gate to open and be heard. I didn't quite reach that threshold for the duration of the clip, so it was reducing my level substantially. Second, when the base station receives any audio on its external audio input, it turns down the intercom audio significantly. Because I was still wearing my headset mic and that audio is included (albeit at a low level) in the mix sent to the intercom base station, that too was causing it to turn down the intercom audio.
I had thought about omitting the clip, but I ultimately decided to leave it in because it does give an accurate representation of what can happen in a real production scenario. The audio on the MARS T1000 can be significantly better than what you hear here, but this isn't exactly atypical either. If you're in a quiet environment, the TD doesn't talk much, and the camera operators speak one at a time with decent volume, the T1000 can work well. But it does have significant limitations that come up in a real production.
If you'd like another sample, go watch my MARS T1000 review I have here on the channel.
I should mention that nearly all "budget" wireless intercom systems behave this way. It isn't unique to the T1000.
Great video and crazy how similar our setups are, to the details of:
X32 Rack w/ Dante Card
Yamaha TIO1608-D for speaker box with HA8000 Headset amps
Audio Technica BPHS1s
Blackmagic Studio Converter (old version) with AES
Hollyland Mars T1000 wireless intercom XLR interfacing with the X32
Controlling from Companion
Only difference is that we actually use the main X32 mix for show mixing because we don't have many mics on our shows. Also we use one bus for each person because we have smaller production crews.
I will definitely try to steal your X32 EQ/Auto mix/other settings to make our intercom better. Also the Dante beltpacks and HyperX Headset look great, better usability than the Peltor or Bose we use at the moment (and cheaper), do they have a play/pause button for enabling PTT on other cameras?
There's no way to remotely enable PTT. There is a global mic kill from within the ST Controller app for the Studio Technologies beltpacks if someone forgets to mute.
@@djp_video Oh sorry, badly written sentence there. I was thinking on the HyperX headset for blackmagic cameras/camera converter to enable PTT
I love all of the info you share, thank you. Any thoughts on affordable IFB for talent?
There are a lot of affordable options, but in that market you very much get what you pay for. Get as expensive a system as you can justify.
Sennheiser iem g4 with a2003 antenna
Yea looks like the fiber is the way to go
Hi Doug! amazing work, great congrats. At 7:42", what kind of equipment you are using to convert the BNC In/Out (phones/mic) to XLR AES3 (between the Studio Converter and the Dante Avio adapter)? Is this something custom made (do you have a diagram?) or something that can be found online?
Thanks for all your suggestions and feedback!
From Italy
These are matching transformers. I use these models from SESCOM: amzn.to/3HF4nNp and amzn.to/3W3dPhZ
Hi Doug, great video! I really like your Dante Intercom solution and now upgraded my setup to Dante too. I also use the Studio Technologys beltpacks and the x32 (producer, not Rack) mixer. As you already mantioned the routing UI of this mixer is not the easyest. I can get the Dante chanels in too the mxer, but only post-fader. I`m also trying to find a way to output my final intercom-bus back via Dante. Till now i only found ways to send single chanels back over Dante. Could you explain your x32 setup a bit more?
I had to use the user bank functionality of the X32 to get individual channels routed the way I needed to.
Great video Doug! Question: Do each of the ST 372A’s show up as a separate routable device in Dante…or do you still need their 5422A Intercom Engine in order to run a handful of 372A’s?
Each one is a separate audio source, individually routable. And the two listen channels show up as separate receive channels as well.
@@djp_video Thanks for the reply. So it appears that as long as you have a way to set gain structure (with an audio mixer) and a way to group & route party lines (again with an audio mixer), then it sounds like there’s no need for the 5422A unit.
Correct. I don't have a 5421 or 5422 in my intercom at all and I'm able to use the Studio Technologies units without issue.
I have a clear com system and an ATEM Studio converter with Black Magic URSA Mini Pro 4.6K cams. I also use Dante audio. What would I use to get com either over Dante into venue or into the ATEM converter and use the stinger headsets? Any help is appreciated. Thanks
Hi Doug! I love this video. Thanks for putting in the hours and consideration to make it. I do have a question about how you route a discord caller into your party line. Is that coming off of a PC through an interface? Do you or someone you know of have a video demonstrating how to get discord in and out of an x32? Thanks a lot!
I'm using Dante Virtual Soundcard. I set Discord to use it as the audio interface. In the Discord app, go to Settings, then Voice & Video under App Settings, then for Input and Output Device choose the DVS channels you want to use. You'll probably also want to choose Voice Activity for the Input mode as well and change the input sensitivity. From there it's just a matter of routing those DVS channels to and from my intercom mixer, like any other audio source.
@@djp_video Ah gotcha. Thanks for the response!
Can you do a video on all you would need to use micro sip on Dante? This seems like the way to go.
It is literally as easy as getting Dante Virtual Sound card and selecting a DVS input and output within MicroSIP
@@djp_video - is MicroSip your phone service. That is what I am confused about.
Is it VOIP Service to MicroSip to DVS?
MicroSIP is the software. I’m using Twilio as my phone service provider. But any SIP provider should work.
Hi Doug, great vid.
You mentioned routing limitations of the X32r, why not go with the Yamaha TF-Rack since you are already in that family? Would it have been better/worse, etc?
It would have been better overall. But a lot more expensive. Easily twice the cost.
Hello, thanks for the detailed x32 maddness ) I am curious how did you managed usb connections to PCs in the trailer. I know that usb is good for 3 meters long cabel. But you have it more than that.
Most of the USB connections in the trailer are short. The computers are (almost) all in the back equipment rack, and the equipment they need to connect to are nearby. But I do run USB to the various stations. In the case of USB 2.0, I can just get away with long cables. With USB 3.0, though, I have to use cables with active repeaters.
Great video Doug! How would you deal with someone mixing audio that also needs comms? The comms would be a distraction so they would need to easily mute the comms mix. Suggestions?
In my trailer I have a line-level mixer that combines multiple audio sources for the Genelec studio monitors. I have production intercom audio going into one of the inputs on that mixer. It's panned off to one side so it can easily be distinguished from the program audio, and it has its own level control and mute button. The person running audio can mute/unmute and adjust level as needed.
My current TF3 mixer can't do this, but I've used a number of mixers in the past that allow you to mute and unmute different audio busses separately for the main mix and for the headphone/control room mix. That would also make it easy to listen in on intercom while running audio -- include it in the headphone mix but not the main mix.
Another way to handle it is to not have the person mixing audio on comms at all... (a headset available, but not generally wearing it) if they're needed, someone else can get their attention. Or if you're using a system that has Call functionality, they can watch for their call light to flash.
@@djp_video Wow! It’s easy to see you have put a ton of thought into the topic. All the options you mention are great. A call light sounds fantastic but harder to implement. I’ll look in to that. Thanks again and I look forward to watching more of your content!
Doug ... love what you've done! I might replicate parts of it for a HS theater I volunteer for. Would you being willing to export your Companion Config and any X32 scenes / cue you're using? Realize it may be a little like asking for the recipe for a dish so feel free to say no!
I'd be happy to share what I've done, but it is so specific to my setup that I'm not sure how helpful it would be. I'll try to remember to export the configuration files this weekend.
@@djp_video Thanks Doug! I'm betting that I'll have to heavily modify it but I find its often easier for me to look at what someone else has done and modify it for my needs then trying to clean sheet the whole thing. Thank you for the help!
Hi Doug, after watching this video at least 5 times i finaly invested in a DANTE based intercom system to. I've got 4 of the same 372A Beltpacks you have and the hyperX cloude stinger headsets. But for some reason the headset-microphone signal is not showing up on DANTE and in my X32. Did you have to change some settings in the beltpacks firmware to get it working or did it work straight out of the box?
Enable the Electret power option in the STController setup application. You also might have to turn down the microphone gain as well.
@@djp_video great! Now it works, thanks so much
Hi, Doug.
Thanks for video!
What hardware are you use for sdi/aes level matching between BM studio converter and avio (at 7:05)?
Also, I was very surprised how deep functionality is in BitFocus. It's so powerful tool for workflow.
I'm using some Sescom transformers to handle the impedance conversion: www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/748788-REG/XLRF_to_75_Ohm_BNC_Female_AES_EBU and www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/748792-REG/BNC_Female_to_XLR_Male_AES_EBU_Impedance
Companion is in theory a great tool. In practice, I've found it to be a bit... temperamental. It works fine with my X32 most of the time, but every once in a while there are some strange hiccups, like leaving a mic channel open when it shouldn't be. Very odd stuff. Fortunately, it doesn't happen that often. And I really wish it had the ability to process conditional statements... evaluate equipment status and alter behavior based on that. For example, when Mic 16 is muted, do this... otherwise do this other thing. It currently doesn't do that.
@@djp_video Thanks for the answer.
About companion - does this problem remain with delays between actions? Perhaps the mixer does not have time to set some actions, so it misses something from the todo list. Although I think you've tested this already...
I do not really understand how the connection between the companion and the mixer is carried out, but if it implies two-way communication, then in theory you can come up with and write some kind of sublayer for storing states of the mixer and operate them in the BitFocus, if such functionality in the latter is provided.
It seems to have to do more with Companion thinking some action is carried out when in reality it hasn't been. Multiple commands being sent back-to-back, but maybe out of order or something. I haven't ferreted out the root cause just yet.
Communication is done using OSC. It's actually the same protocol that the native Behringer X32 Edit software uses as well, from what I understand.
How are you handling clocking on the Dante network since I've had problems with intercom before where there is popping sound in the camera crew headset if there is no dedicated clock on the dante network and the same one on the Talkback converter. You would have to make the output of the talkback converter be the master bc you can't change the sample clock of the talkback converter.
On the Dante network, both my TF3 and X32 are preferred clock masters. Essentially whichever is powered on first becomes the clock source for the whole network. Dante just sort of figures that out on its own.
In terms of the AES adapters, it just hasn't been an issue. I believe the AVIO adapter handles any clock sync issues, as it doesn't have any kind of wordclock input or output.
Question: are you still using Dante for comms, and how much would you pay for a 1x1 box with the proper jacks and preamps to use traditional A4F or A5M comm headsets? I got a buddy; I might have a thing...
I am still using Dante, and I love it. It works incredibly well.
Headsets with A4F or A5M connectors can be used with the Studio Technologies 373A and 372A beltpacks respectively.
@@djp_video "somebody is already digging this hole, and you missed it." Got it.
What Midlands gmrs radio do you use for your communication what model is that?
MXT115
Do the Hyper X Cloud Stinger headsets have a mute switch? The headsets I'm using are the Nubwo N7. Most comfortable headsets I've worn. Have you tried those?
They have a swivel-to-mute function.
How is the volume on the Nubwo N7? Most headsets I've tried are a bit quiet. And does the microphone reject outside sounds well?
@@djp_video The Nubwo can get very loud. Mostly used by cam ops into the T1000 beltpacks (I didn't like the T1000 headsets-they we're quieter and had just one muff). Cam ops turn the volume up all the way on the beltpack. The headsets have a volume dial and mute switch on the cable. The volume on the cable is never turned close to all the way up. If you do it will be too loud. Nice to have though if the location is extremely loud. Nobody likes having to hold down to mute/unmute the beltpack so it's always left on talk and they use the mute switch on the headset cable to unmute if they need to talk. I don't think it does a great job of blocking out noise. The only downside. Although I haven't tested many other gaming headsets to compare it.
Where can I find more about the SDI/XLR “Konverter”.
Are you referring to the BNC XLR adapter?
www.sescom.com/products/view/product/productslug/ses-aes-ebu-2-bnc-female-to-xlr-m-aesebu-impedance-transformer
www.sescom.com/products/view/product/productslug/ses-aes-ebu-1-xlrf-to-75-ohm-bnc-female-aesebu-impedance-transformer
How does the camera man mute his mic?
Did I miss how the toggle switches at the trailer stations are actually capable of toggling the microphone input? Is that a physical toggle on the audio cabling or something patched in a software?
They physically disconnect the microphones.
The toggle switch is parallel to the XLR input and shorts pins 2 & 3 to kill the mic signal?? Wouldn't be possible to use kind of push to talk toggle?? Thanks for your channel is really great, lots of info
Quick question! We received the 372A and went with your recommendation on the Stingers headset, but the mics don't seem to work on any of the headsets. Did you do something to get those headsets to function?
We tested with different 5pin headsets and the routing works as we can hear those headset mics just fine, the Stinger mics just don't seem to work. I wasn't sure if there was something we were missing. 🤷
You'll need to tweak some of the configuration options in the ST Controller application.
@@djp_video I played with a few options on the engine with no luck, but I'll give it another go tomorrow and see if I may have missed something.
Did you enable Electret Power?
@@djp_video I came back here to tell you just that. Somehow I missed that little bit there. Thank you so much! I appreciate you getting back to me so quickly!
Thanks to your video!
I have a question
how to use that intercom system in my studio? i have 1-Floor(Studio) / 3-Floor(Control room)
not same Floor... so system setup is hard.
please advice me! Thank you
I think you already have all info you need. Begin with running fibers in between the floors, so you have a common network for Dante.
Doug: Wanted to see if something is possible to do with my comms set up. I use vMix. I am going to start using a combo of Discord and Hollyland T1000 for comms. Tying those together shouldn't be a problem I don't think?
But I was thinking... I will be doing football games where I have one fiber cable going to a camera about three hundred yards away. So I'll bring that into the vMix PC with a BM Decklink card. If at the camera end I used a BM Camera converter, is there a way for a headset plugged into it that to be tied into my particular comm set up?
The reason I'd like to do this is that I'll be one Hollyland T1000 belt pack short and I only trust Discord on wifi near my production location. That long distance cam won't be in wifi range.
Intercom audio from/to the Camera Converter is on SDI channel 15/16. So you'll need a way to embed intercom audio on the signal going to the camera converter on channel 16, and de-embed the audio coming from the camera converter. The driver for the DeckLink cards doesn't expose those higher numbered channels, so embedding/de-embedding would probably have to be done in hardware with something like the SDI-to-Audio and Audio-to-SDI Mini Converters.
Have you actually tried running comms over WiFi, especially with hundreds/thousands of people? That seems rather unreliable to me and very likely to fail.
If you haven't seen my video on WiFi, I recommend doing so before proceeding down this route. th-cam.com/video/KMrnCikIn8o/w-d-xo.html
Thanks. Yes I have, it's on a small network away from crowds that only I have access to and Discord on it will only be used by a few people within 20 feet. Last year I used it at stadiums with the people farther away on their phones over cell service. That worked but crowds were small due to the pandemic. That won't work when attendance limits aren't in place, thus the Hollyland.
Very informative Thanks!! What in-ear monitoring system are you using?
This one is the AKG IVM4. I also use the AKG IVM4500, which is fantastic! I didn't link to either one though because both have been discontinued.
@@djp_video cheers! Any recommendation for any of these which are still in production?
You can still find the IVM4500 if you are patient and look around. I haven't liked any of the other options I've seen. Nobody else seems to be doing diversity receivers.
@@djp_video Thanks for your reply. Will keep an eye out.
Hi Doug Johnson where can I find a diagram form rj45 to xlr that is compatible from Mars T1000? Many Thanks!
It's in the manual for the T1000.
WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT YOU FLY PACK AND FIBER ENDS
Start with this video, and then come back here with questions: th-cam.com/video/z6n5sQSlTGE/w-d-xo.html
Thanks, what IEM system are you using?
This one is the AKG IVM4. I didn't link to it because it has been discontinued for several years.
Ok push to talk
What about your tally lights
I'm not currently using any tally lights beyond what my Camera Converters have.
I've reached out to a few manufacturers who make tally systems compatible with ATEMs and a couple have agreed to send me review units, but so far nobody has followed through. I'll make a point of touching base again.
@@djp_video Ok, Noted Doug As we all know, tally light is also important in a live production, i will be expecting ur review on that.. Thanks
Good day Dough. I wanted to know if you can pass by my church to give me a hand/advise with sound/video..of course You let me know how much that could cost..
!!WE ARE DESPERATE!!!
Please let me know, Thank You.!!
Did you get any help? What do you need help with?