We are really going to miss this series. It’s been informative and entertaining. We have learned so much about GAs… some good. Some bad. Some sad. As we process all this information, it makes us pause and think… where were we at in the 60s and 70s. I remember when the ban was “stopped because of revelations “. I never believed that. My thought was, Finally! This series has certainly made us better. Thank you.
My sister and i had a falling out and I refused to interact with her unless she apologized, 8 years of estrangement later: she finally apologized and i let it go. The thing is, it's difficult to forgive and move past when the other party doesn't feel they did anything wrong... To me it was a clear indication that she fully intended to carry on as usual without changing that behavior which she owed the apology for. And i think that applies to the church too, it's a tacit signal that everything is fine and will continue on as was. Church should follow it's own repentance process
And the option of going along to get along without the apology occurred to me, and that was just as painful... Especially being surrounded by people who weren't sticking up for me and were accepting that treatment on my behalf. Hard not to draw a parallel to the way the members accept the non-apology apologetics
You didn’t ask for my opinion 😂 but as someone who adores their sister and whose sister has shown to adore her back, I completely agree with your decision! My sister and I have had a couple (two) falling outs where we didn’t talk for a year and it was a MUST for each one of us to apologize our respective time for our respective reason. I’m the older sister and I’m not above it… She’s the baby and she doesn’t get a pass to treat me any which way either… We’ve gone through SO MUCH with our narcissistic mother and we choose daily to be better people, to grow and to show up for each other unlike our mother could. We always say we have built this relationship - it surely wasn’t handed to us by the mere fact we share genes. I am so proud that you chose YOU, even when people were ok with not having your very important self respected.
This series has been amazing. So informative, so insightful, and so heartbreaking in many ways. Overall just an awesome series, Dr. Matt Harris is a wonderful and thoughtful speaker, and I appreciate everyone who's been featured and given their insight, too!
Somehow, this final episode to the first iteration of the series was the best of them all. ~90% of my new deeper understanding of the Black ban has come from this series, and a surprising ~50% of my understanding of how the the General Authorities of the church operate today have come from Matt. Even if, for some reason, black history in the church isnt of interest as a topic to someone, this series would still blow church headquarters wide open to anyone who watches it. When are Matt & Nate starting their own Mormonism & Race podcast?
Thank you for your kind words. It has been such a joy doing these episodes working with John, Julia, and Gerado, along with the guests: Darron, Summer-Rayne, and Nate. All incredible people.
Some context on the apology hoax. It was originally supposed to be more obvious that it was fake. It was obviously written to sound like the church, but was only going to be presented as a "wouldn't it be great if the church said something like this?" Very late in the plan for its release, someone suggested that it would be trivial to make a website with an identical look and URL to the church PR website. There was excitement for how much this would stick it to the church by forcing them to denounce something that sounded so good and morally correct. Within hours, and without fully thinking through the possible ramifications and fallout, the hoax was online. The wording and presentation ended up being more convincing than intended, and instead of landing like scathing satire, it became an unintentionally cruel hoax. Nobody involved intended to fool or hurt the African American community. It has become a great lesson in how activism can harm if not centered on the feelings and needs of those it intends to help.
I watched the "apology " podcast it was as bad if not worse than the actual apology itself. He posted videos of black women who had agonized over the initial fake apology, without their knowledge or permission to absolve himself of the initial act. It was a continuation of not reading the situation why is it still ok to use black people as a way to get back at the church then use them again to try and excuse it? So obtuse. Not one black person was on the podcast. At they very least they could have invited the black ladies who's videos they found to talk about it in a balanced discussion. No it was just white men talking about them. This kind of stuff matters when you talk about race and this church.
As a black member, born and raised, who was out of the church by the time the fake apology came out I loved it. It felt like a direct apology to me for and in behalf of the church who could not do it. I have a printed copy in my files and I still read it occasionally and feel those same feelings from the first time. Someone gets me.
The apology hoax was a turning point for me. After I found out it wasn't real, I unceremoniously deleted my social media. It got me thinking in earnest about my shelf items, and helped me realize I was never going to get what I needed from the church.
This series has been phenomenal, so informative and eye opening. Now we’re at the conclusion, I want to resurface the idea that we’d love to hear from Mormons/post-Mormons in Africa. I’m curious about the unique experiences of people who join the church in South Africa vs Nigeria and Ghana, and so on, and what kind of effect/signature the events in Matt’s book may have had there. I would also be curious to hear a review of all quality social science research that has been done on the Church, and you guys at Mormon Stories seem uniquely positioned to do that kind of thing rigorously.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻Bravo Matt. I have donated, and I have watched every episode. This has been eye opening and informative and so refreshing to hear from a scholar that put so much time and energy into this work. I am sending everyone I know who is reading this book to watch this series because of all the additional content and stories you say had to be cut out. (Which is sad, because I’m sure a LOT of people would read it!) Keep doing the great work! ❤️❤️
Thank you for this series! I grew up in East Idaho in the 90s and early 2000s. Racist teachings were alive and well in seminary and church at that time. This series has really helped me learn more about how I grew up in the church and why I was taught a lot of things! Matt you're a treasure!!
Oaks comment that “we don’t seek apologies…” is understandable from and institutional perspective but it’s awfully ironic considering how often they sit with people 11 years old and up to make sure they apologize for their sins. Gospel principles ought to hold true on the institutional level just as much as the individual. EDIT: just after I typed this, Nate hit on the same thing
My son’s mission companion in 2020 was black. The other four white missionaries in the house told him he’d be happy when he’s resurrected white. My son was so enraged. Son also left the church after his mission.
Enjoyed the discussion on Elder Uchtdorf, that was the best conference talk I’ve heard in the last 20 years. I wish he would have gone further but men like Uchtdorf give me hope. So many people love the church and the core gospel, imagine if we just called the ban and polygamy what they are decades ago, it would essentially be a non issue, rather than the roadblocks that they are.
I read the book and watched every episode. Thanks Matthew for writing such a well researched and written book. Also, thanks John for your platform that has allowed so many to learn such an important history. In my opinion, this book should be mandatory reading at BYU.
Every member ought to listen to this series and Year of Polygamy. Both are done with high standards in academic content and objectivity, allowing the listener to come to their own conclusion using all relevant information free of bias to the extent possible. You can’t get that in the Church, unfortunately. As long as the Church refuses to acknowledge mistakes such as polygamy and racism, the default assertion is that these were divine practices.
I will go back and listen to this series again. I learned so much from Matt. What a fantastic historian and all-around great human being. Thank you also to Nate for coming on to share with us his experiences and insights. Great work MS team for this important work.
As long as they keep their racist scripture then they (LDS people) will always have some degree of racism. That’s the whole point of the Critical Race Theory - get to the root cause of racism. In the case of the LDS church the root of their racism is their scripture, it’s not just because Brother Jensen down the street is racist.
I have loved this series, and I’m sad it’s over. Thank you John, Matt, and co. 🙏🏼 John, can you find an excuse to bring Matt back, maybe even on a somewhat regular basis?
EVEN if it was not fake, it's too late to be honest.
หลายเดือนก่อน +2
One thing I can add re: Oaks and boundaries. When he was sent to the Philippines for multiple years to get things in order, one of the first things he did was discontinue “English speaking wards” and tell all the expats to go to their local wards. It stayed that way until about 12 years ago or so.
1:56:41 in the 2024 version of come, follow me book of Mormon study guide for home and church. It’s still mentions it. They’ve changed the wording and now it says that “we don’t fully understand what the Mark looked like” then it is followed by a video from one black General authority on video talking about unity. Its just optics to save face. They should remove that section all together for that matter change book of Mormon to reflect the fact there was no curse Upon the children of Laman and Lemuel it was on Laman and Lemuel themselves. Hence why their children ultimately inherited the promised land over the more wicked Nephites.
The stake president of the Charlotte NC Central Stake, where I served my mission, told me that they did have an inner-city black branch at one point. I believe he had been the branch president (he was white). IIRC, he said they brought in a lot more gospel songs and the singing was a lot more enthusiastic, but that was the only real difference in how the meetings were conducted than an average ward. I threw out all my mission stuff a few years back, and can't find the guy's name anywhere, but Matt, if you can find the stake president for Charlotte Central Stake circa 2002, you might get some interesting follow-up.
The Mormon church will have to deal with its racism. African Mormons will eventually realize the racism and join other church’s if this isn’t addressed.
I have mixed feelings about separate wards. We have Spanish speaking people attend our ward just to learn English. I think having people of different ethnicity all together is a way to break down barriers and an opportunity to learn about other cultures to learn to be compassionate to all people. I think we do a disservice to all by having these separate wards. I think it would have worked if people just gave it more time and had meetings with everyone to openly discuss it.
Oaks makes my blood boil. It’s disappointing but not surprising he was chosen to speak at the Be One celebration. His comments are so tone deaf. He’s also so boring going through a history and being diplomatic rather than genuinely celebrating change.
I think there should be healthy dialogue around the apparent double standard that it is ok for minorities to want to preserve their culture at the exclusion of others but not for the same for white Americans. I don’t know how to reconcile that. On a related but different note, I lost my Hispanic culture in the name of assimilation so that my grandparents and their family could fit into the very Mormon community they lived in.
I'm curious how they even enforce something like that. What if a person was biracial? Did this ban apply to other ethnicities? (Writing this before I watch)
It is still a hollow response there are millions of Latino members and there has never been a Hispanic member of the twelve. Brazilians got one before latinos did
@@ceciliabrown6341Brazil is not a Spanish speaking Latin American country they are not Latino or Hispanic there are millions of Hispanic members and yet never has a Hispanic general authority ascended higher than the q of 70
I don’t find it a compelling rationale that Oaks is willing to throw a bone to the racist LDS members. I find it much more logical that he identifies with their views.
To that closing question, Im not black, but the doctrine tied to skin color would still put me off, believe it or not. On top of a pile of other theological beliefs that all speak of a very worldly invention, not a divinely revealed worldview.
I was confused by the suggestion of Church units based on race when there is no language barrier. I thought there was a firm consensus that segregation and “separate but equal” are evil. Seems like a blatant contradiction to propose one and condemn the other. The specialized branches/wards and stakes are purely with regard to language in accord with D&C 90:11 (“that every man shall hear the fulness of the gospel in his own tongue, and in his own language”), not for the purpose of separation by race, ethnicity, culture, etc.
It would be *so* easy to say that God speaks through prophets, but prophets are human, so sometimes, God has to speak several times, through several prophets, before the whole message gets transmitted. But, no, the church goes all in on absolute power and control. They profit in the short term, but it will always come back to bite them
Or the world view that we are all tainted and God will only talk to one (98 year old geezer no less) was always an invention to create that power and control.
2:19:02: "...once they submitted the report they thought their work was done" - WHELP they wouldn't have thought that if they had experienced the MIT administration as I have. When I make these comments it's just to say some of the cultural evils we point at transcend religion and maybe possibly have something more to do with white colonial supremacist thinking.
(That said, the "Office of Belonging" nonsense is emblematic of how BYU is *worse* than its secular peers. And *of course* they didn't solicit input from the Black Student Union - then they might have had to hear the actual truth.)
@27:48 How do white folks not understand this? Even without the issue of racism, white people are not all alike because they come from different cultures. Just because I’m white doesn’t mean I have the same lived experience or cultural mindset as someone from Hungary or Germany or Sweden or France. I have more in common with Nate since we’re both American than I do with someone from Russia, even tho, statistically, the average Russian looks like me.
Oaks talk title doesn’t work either way. If you tell blacks to love their racist persecutor it’s bad. If you’re framing blacks as enemies it’s bad. Oaks is just an old man with outdated beliefs and ideas. Sucks he will be the next “prophet”
I like most of Matt shares. But I don’t agree that because someone disagrees with Colin Kapernick or certain movements that they are racist or need sensitivity training. You can have different views on the issues and approach and not be racist…. Not all blacks agree with these movements in the same way.
I finished Second Class Saints a little while ago. It’s an astonishing piece of scholarship. I’ve been investigating the Church for a number of years now off and on. The early racism in beliefs and practice was one of the things that I really struggled with, it’s still a stumbling block to me. I really wanted to know why the priesthood and temple ban came into place, why it took so long to be lifted, and what occurred in 1978 to make that change. Unfortunately it was a topic that few missionary pairs (or members) wanted to talk about. Often the responses to my questions where “the Church wasn’t ready yet”, or “we don’t know why God put this in place”, or “it would have split the Church if it got lifted too early yet”. I’m realizing often these answers had faith goals in mind, for me and I imagine for themselves. I can’t think of anyone until recently that ventured into the “possible mistake” response. I’ve really been enjoying all of these episodes with Matt Harris, and after reading this book and listening to everything he’s talked about I feel that my questions have been meticulously answered. Matt, for that I am forever grateful.
We are really going to miss this series. It’s been informative and entertaining. We have learned so much about GAs… some good. Some bad. Some sad. As we process all this information, it makes us pause and think… where were we at in the 60s and 70s. I remember when the ban was “stopped because of revelations “. I never believed that. My thought was, Finally! This series has certainly made us better. Thank you.
My goodness, what nice praise. Thank you.
My sister and i had a falling out and I refused to interact with her unless she apologized, 8 years of estrangement later: she finally apologized and i let it go. The thing is, it's difficult to forgive and move past when the other party doesn't feel they did anything wrong... To me it was a clear indication that she fully intended to carry on as usual without changing that behavior which she owed the apology for. And i think that applies to the church too, it's a tacit signal that everything is fine and will continue on as was. Church should follow it's own repentance process
And the option of going along to get along without the apology occurred to me, and that was just as painful... Especially being surrounded by people who weren't sticking up for me and were accepting that treatment on my behalf. Hard not to draw a parallel to the way the members accept the non-apology apologetics
You didn’t ask for my opinion 😂 but as someone who adores their sister and whose sister has shown to adore her back, I completely agree with your decision! My sister and I have had a couple (two) falling outs where we didn’t talk for a year and it was a MUST for each one of us to apologize our respective time for our respective reason. I’m the older sister and I’m not above it… She’s the baby and she doesn’t get a pass to treat me any which way either… We’ve gone through SO MUCH with our narcissistic mother and we choose daily to be better people, to grow and to show up for each other unlike our mother could. We always say we have built this relationship - it surely wasn’t handed to us by the mere fact we share genes. I am so proud that you chose YOU, even when people were ok with not having your very important self respected.
Thanks Matt! Learned so much. The subject matter was informative, but also the method of telling it was very engaging.
Thank you. You're very kind.
This series has been amazing. So informative, so insightful, and so heartbreaking in many ways. Overall just an awesome series, Dr. Matt Harris is a wonderful and thoughtful speaker, and I appreciate everyone who's been featured and given their insight, too!
Somehow, this final episode to the first iteration of the series was the best of them all. ~90% of my new deeper understanding of the Black ban has come from this series, and a surprising ~50% of my understanding of how the the General Authorities of the church operate today have come from Matt. Even if, for some reason, black history in the church isnt of interest as a topic to someone, this series would still blow church headquarters wide open to anyone who watches it.
When are Matt & Nate starting their own Mormonism & Race podcast?
Thank you for your kind words. It has been such a joy doing these episodes working with John, Julia, and Gerado, along with the guests: Darron, Summer-Rayne, and Nate. All incredible people.
Some context on the apology hoax. It was originally supposed to be more obvious that it was fake. It was obviously written to sound like the church, but was only going to be presented as a "wouldn't it be great if the church said something like this?" Very late in the plan for its release, someone suggested that it would be trivial to make a website with an identical look and URL to the church PR website. There was excitement for how much this would stick it to the church by forcing them to denounce something that sounded so good and morally correct. Within hours, and without fully thinking through the possible ramifications and fallout, the hoax was online. The wording and presentation ended up being more convincing than intended, and instead of landing like scathing satire, it became an unintentionally cruel hoax. Nobody involved intended to fool or hurt the African American community. It has become a great lesson in how activism can harm if not centered on the feelings and needs of those it intends to help.
I watched the "apology " podcast it was as bad if not worse than the actual apology itself. He posted videos of black women who had agonized over the initial fake apology, without their knowledge or permission to absolve himself of the initial act. It was a continuation of not reading the situation why is it still ok to use black people as a way to get back at the church then use them again to try and excuse it? So obtuse. Not one black person was on the podcast. At they very least they could have invited the black ladies who's videos they found to talk about it in a balanced discussion. No it was just white men talking about them. This kind of stuff matters when you talk about race and this church.
As a black member, born and raised, who was out of the church by the time the fake apology came out I loved it. It felt like a direct apology to me for and in behalf of the church who could not do it. I have a printed copy in my files and I still read it occasionally and feel those same feelings from the first time. Someone gets me.
The apology hoax was a turning point for me. After I found out it wasn't real, I unceremoniously deleted my social media. It got me thinking in earnest about my shelf items, and helped me realize I was never going to get what I needed from the church.
I wish someone had retorted to Oaks"What about the word repentance, does that appear at all in the scriptures?"
This series has been phenomenal, so informative and eye opening. Now we’re at the conclusion, I want to resurface the idea that we’d love to hear from Mormons/post-Mormons in Africa. I’m curious about the unique experiences of people who join the church in South Africa vs Nigeria and Ghana, and so on, and what kind of effect/signature the events in Matt’s book may have had there. I would also be curious to hear a review of all quality social science research that has been done on the Church, and you guys at Mormon Stories seem uniquely positioned to do that kind of thing rigorously.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻Bravo Matt. I have donated, and I have watched every episode. This has been eye opening and informative and so refreshing to hear from a scholar that put so much time and energy into this work. I am sending everyone I know who is reading this book to watch this series because of all the additional content and stories you say had to be cut out. (Which is sad, because I’m sure a LOT of people would read it!) Keep doing the great work! ❤️❤️
It was my pleasure. I appreciate your kind words, and thanks for all the support!
Thank you for this series! I grew up in East Idaho in the 90s and early 2000s. Racist teachings were alive and well in seminary and church at that time.
This series has really helped me learn more about how I grew up in the church and why I was taught a lot of things!
Matt you're a treasure!!
Oaks comment that “we don’t seek apologies…” is understandable from and institutional perspective but it’s awfully ironic considering how often they sit with people 11 years old and up to make sure they apologize for their sins. Gospel principles ought to hold true on the institutional level just as much as the individual. EDIT: just after I typed this, Nate hit on the same thing
Great series! Fascinating history!!
Glad you enjoyed it
My son’s mission companion in 2020 was black. The other four white missionaries in the house told him he’d be happy when he’s resurrected white. My son was so enraged. Son also left the church after his mission.
Phenomenal work guys, I watched every minute
I'm sad that this series is coming to an end.
Me too!
When we finished our last episode in July, it felt weird. We had done so many, and now it had come to an abrupt end. Thank you for tuning in.
@@matthewharris7151 I really appreciated your knowledge and insight! Thank you!!
Love seeing Nate on ms
Enjoyed the discussion on Elder Uchtdorf, that was the best conference talk I’ve heard in the last 20 years. I wish he would have gone further but men like Uchtdorf give me hope. So many people love the church and the core gospel, imagine if we just called the ban and polygamy what they are decades ago, it would essentially be a non issue, rather than the roadblocks that they are.
I read the book and watched every episode. Thanks Matthew for writing such a well researched and written book. Also, thanks John for your platform that has allowed so many to learn such an important history. In my opinion, this book should be mandatory reading at BYU.
Every member ought to listen to this series and Year of Polygamy. Both are done with high standards in academic content and objectivity, allowing the listener to come to their own conclusion using all relevant information free of bias to the extent possible.
You can’t get that in the Church, unfortunately. As long as the Church refuses to acknowledge mistakes such as polygamy and racism, the default assertion is that these were divine practices.
Thanks!
Thanks for your support of this series!
I will go back and listen to this series again. I learned so much from Matt. What a fantastic historian and all-around great human being. Thank you also to Nate for coming on to share with us his experiences and insights. Great work MS team for this important work.
You are much too kind. Thank you. I’m pleased that you enjoyed this series.
Nate is freaking fantastic
I hope Gerardo and hubs have a great vacation!❤
Wonderful series!
As long as they keep their racist scripture then they (LDS people) will always have some degree of racism. That’s the whole point of the Critical Race Theory - get to the root cause of racism. In the case of the LDS church the root of their racism is their scripture, it’s not just because Brother Jensen down the street is racist.
More Matt Harris! More Matt Harris!
This academic perspective is sorely needed, evidence-based, informative, healing, and helps inform the future!
Thank you. John and the team were so gracious and good to work with. I’m glad you enjoyed the series!
I have loved this series, and I’m sad it’s over. Thank you John, Matt, and co. 🙏🏼 John, can you find an excuse to bring Matt back, maybe even on a somewhat regular basis?
EVEN if it was not fake, it's too late to be honest.
One thing I can add re: Oaks and boundaries. When he was sent to the Philippines for multiple years to get things in order, one of the first things he did was discontinue “English speaking wards” and tell all the expats to go to their local wards. It stayed that way until about 12 years ago or so.
We are not people in sorrow🎉
2:23:49 initiatives like this sound like the kind of things mainstream secular colleges were doing in the 1980s... I'm just kind of amazed.
1:56:41 in the 2024 version of come, follow me book of Mormon study guide for home and church. It’s still mentions it. They’ve changed the wording and now it says that “we don’t fully understand what the Mark looked like” then it is followed by a video from one black General authority on video talking about unity. Its just optics to save face. They should remove that section all together for that matter change book of Mormon to reflect the fact there was no curse Upon the children of Laman and Lemuel it was on Laman and Lemuel themselves. Hence why their children ultimately inherited the promised land over the more wicked Nephites.
The stake president of the Charlotte NC Central Stake, where I served my mission, told me that they did have an inner-city black branch at one point. I believe he had been the branch president (he was white). IIRC, he said they brought in a lot more gospel songs and the singing was a lot more enthusiastic, but that was the only real difference in how the meetings were conducted than an average ward.
I threw out all my mission stuff a few years back, and can't find the guy's name anywhere, but Matt, if you can find the stake president for Charlotte Central Stake circa 2002, you might get some interesting follow-up.
The Mormon church will have to deal with its racism. African Mormons will eventually realize the racism and join other church’s if this isn’t addressed.
I have mixed feelings about separate wards. We have Spanish speaking people attend our ward just to learn English. I think having people of different ethnicity all together is a way to break down barriers and an opportunity to learn about other cultures to learn to be compassionate to all people. I think we do a disservice to all by having these separate wards. I think it would have worked if people just gave it more time and had meetings with everyone to openly discuss it.
Oaks makes my blood boil. It’s disappointing but not surprising he was chosen to speak at the Be One celebration. His comments are so tone deaf. He’s also so boring going through a history and being diplomatic rather than genuinely celebrating change.
Jonathan Streeter has since gone on Mormonism live, talked about the apology, and apologized for it.
I think there should be healthy dialogue around the apparent double standard that it is ok for minorities to want to preserve their culture at the exclusion of others but not for the same for white Americans. I don’t know how to reconcile that. On a related but different note, I lost my Hispanic culture in the name of assimilation so that my grandparents and their family could fit into the very Mormon community they lived in.
I'm curious how they even enforce something like that.
What if a person was biracial? Did this ban apply to other ethnicities?
(Writing this before I watch)
It is still a hollow response there are millions of Latino members and there has never been a Hispanic member of the twelve. Brazilians got one before latinos did
Brazil is part of Latin America so I’m not sure what your point is?
@@ceciliabrown6341Brazil is not a Spanish speaking Latin American country they are not Latino or Hispanic there are millions of Hispanic members and yet never has a Hispanic general authority ascended higher than the q of 70
@@hyrummerino2656 A Brazilian woman educated me: that she was Latina because Brazil is part of Latin America. She is not Hispanic, but she is Latina.
I don’t find it a compelling rationale that Oaks is willing to throw a bone to the racist LDS members. I find it much more logical that he identifies with their views.
Most Americans could not pass the Citizenship exam.
Are the women’s leadership positions salaried?
Nope
Also it can be said Canada is a lot like the USA. The black experience is the same.
To that closing question, Im not black, but the doctrine tied to skin color would still put me off, believe it or not. On top of a pile of other theological beliefs that all speak of a very worldly invention, not a divinely revealed worldview.
I was confused by the suggestion of Church units based on race when there is no language barrier. I thought there was a firm consensus that segregation and “separate but equal” are evil. Seems like a blatant contradiction to propose one and condemn the other.
The specialized branches/wards and stakes are purely with regard to language in accord with D&C 90:11 (“that every man shall hear the fulness of the gospel in his own tongue, and in his own language”), not for the purpose of separation by race, ethnicity, culture, etc.
It would be *so* easy to say that God speaks through prophets, but prophets are human, so sometimes, God has to speak several times, through several prophets, before the whole message gets transmitted. But, no, the church goes all in on absolute power and control. They profit in the short term, but it will always come back to bite them
Or the world view that we are all tainted and God will only talk to one (98 year old geezer no less) was always an invention to create that power and control.
I see🎉
Ookdork isn’t being nice. He’s just better at talking. Look, you even believe him. That’s what he wants , not truth.
2:19:02: "...once they submitted the report they thought their work was done" - WHELP they wouldn't have thought that if they had experienced the MIT administration as I have. When I make these comments it's just to say some of the cultural evils we point at transcend religion and maybe possibly have something more to do with white colonial supremacist thinking.
(That said, the "Office of Belonging" nonsense is emblematic of how BYU is *worse* than its secular peers. And *of course* they didn't solicit input from the Black Student Union - then they might have had to hear the actual truth.)
@27:48 How do white folks not understand this? Even without the issue of racism, white people are not all alike because they come from different cultures. Just because I’m white doesn’t mean I have the same lived experience or cultural mindset as someone from Hungary or Germany or Sweden or France. I have more in common with Nate since we’re both American than I do with someone from Russia, even tho, statistically, the average Russian looks like me.
“Looking forward” sounds a lot like Kamala’s “turn the page”
🙏🏼😮💨💪🏼
Oaks talk title doesn’t work either way. If you tell blacks to love their racist persecutor it’s bad. If you’re framing blacks as enemies it’s bad. Oaks is just an old man with outdated beliefs and ideas. Sucks he will be the next “prophet”
I like most of Matt shares. But I don’t agree that because someone disagrees with Colin Kapernick or certain movements that they are racist or need sensitivity training. You can have different views on the issues and approach and not be racist…. Not all blacks agree with these movements in the same way.
@@jakeswanson3831 So now you speak for all ExMormons, all Mormons, AND blacks? Wow. You are arrogant.
I finished Second Class Saints a little while ago.
It’s an astonishing piece of scholarship. I’ve been investigating the Church for a number of years now off and on. The early racism in beliefs and practice was one of the things that I really struggled with, it’s still a stumbling block to me. I really wanted to know why the priesthood and temple ban came into place, why it took so long to be lifted, and what occurred in 1978 to make that change. Unfortunately it was a topic that few missionary pairs (or members) wanted to talk about. Often the responses to my questions where “the Church wasn’t ready yet”, or “we don’t know why God put this in place”, or “it would have split the Church if it got lifted too early yet”. I’m realizing often these answers had faith goals in mind, for me and I imagine for themselves. I can’t think of anyone until recently that ventured into the “possible mistake” response. I’ve really been enjoying all of these episodes with Matt Harris, and after reading this book and listening to everything he’s talked about I feel that my questions have been meticulously answered. Matt, for that I am forever grateful.
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