Thank you for this video. This overlap of genitive case in the context of the accusative case has been drawing my attention for months now. It's good to finally see a video explaining it!
An interesting topic, and much valued explanation of it. I didn't know, before or since, the reason (causation) behind what seemed to be an aberration from the standard usage... Many thanks. 👍
Thank you very much, Professor Ford! I truly enjoy these videos. I envy those students who had the chance to study Russian at the university with you! 😀
Мне кажется, что иногда можно использовать обе версии, но они имеют разное значение, например: Я не хочу пиццу (то есть я не хочу именно эту пиццу, а, возможно, другой вид или другой кусок той же пиццы) Я не хочу пиццы (то есть я не хочу никакой пиццы, но, пожалуй, борщ)
The general tendency is for new or emphasized information to come last, so "он не прочитал ни одной книги" would fit that context; but for informal or emotionally colored speech, that tendency can be flipped around: "он ни одной книги не прочитал." So I think either is possible. There's more on word order here: th-cam.com/play/PLrIkLgUgjNHcRaTtzkvU4px_IbHypxIAf.html :)
When the genitive is used for the direct object with affirmative sentences, does it have similar rules to the ones described? For example, saying "Она хочет скандалов" seems to unserline that the subject enjoys creating scandals, drama, etc. on a general level, whereas saying "Она хочет скандалы" doesn't carry as much of that nuance. I rarely see this construction with affirmative sentences, but I still think it's worth explaining.
I'll do a video on this soon - one use of the genitive is sometimes called "partitive," for expressing a portion of something, often like "some" in English. Michele Berdy wrote a nice column to introduce this a while back: www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/02/06/a-little-bit-of-this-a-little-bit-of-that-a31827
I use a textbook from the 70s which states that "the direct object of a negated verb is _usually_ in the genitive" (so, the rule rather than the exception) *except* when referring to a specific object or person (e.g. Я не знаю его женУ.) Even in that case, use of the accusative is considered colloquial.
I wouldn't argue with that - note careful inclusion of the word "usually." It'd be interesting to see if there's been any shift in what's perceived as markedly colloquial; you'd need to do some careful work in a corpus, but this quick look at an ngram is an interesting comparison of не читал эту vs не читал этой over time: books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=не+читал+эту%2Cне+читал+этой&year_start=1920&year_end=2019&corpus=ru-2019&smoothing=3
And here's a hint of a shift (just from a quick look at gramota.ru): -Какой падеж в этих конструкциях использовался раньше - родительный или винительный? Прежде при глаголах с отрицанием почти всегда употреблялся родительный падеж. «Русская грамматика» пишет: «Единая старая норма обязательного родительного падежа при глаголах с отрицанием в современном языке под влиянием разговорной речи не выдерживается: во многих случаях употребление винительного падежа не только предпочитается, но и является единственно правильным». -gramota.ru/biblioteka/spravochniki/pismovnik/kakoy-padezh-nuzhen-pri-otritsanii
Will you make a video about the dative being used when "no one" is the subject of the sentence? E.g. "в небе над нами горит звезда, некому кроме неё нам помочь"
Как всегда, благодарю Вас. Хорошее видео. Are there any good textbooks for levels b-1 and b-2? The reason I'm asking is that I completed пять элементов (из златоуста) but I'm not very confident I could pass трки-1. Any input is appreciated.
I'm not too familiar with пять элементов, but if you're at a point where grammar practice is still helpful, I often recommend Русский язык в упражнениях, by Хавронина - exercises on all the essentials, with an answer key.
I have been waiting for this class for a very long time! Thanks, Russian Grammar. I love your explanations.
30 years after I started studying Russian I find out about this... Greetings from a beautiful but slippery Moscow
I remember those moments when for a second you're in the air, horizontal, gazing at the sky, then
@@russiangrammarto be honest, I feel better knowing that it's not me... it's the Russian language...
Thank you for this video. This overlap of genitive case in the context of the accusative case has been drawing my attention for months now. It's good to finally see a video explaining it!
Great to hear from you again, Dr Ford.
An interesting topic, and much valued explanation of it. I didn't know, before or since, the reason (causation) behind what seemed to be an aberration from the standard usage... Many thanks. 👍
Thank you very much, Professor Ford! I truly enjoy these videos. I envy those students who had the chance to study Russian at the university with you! 😀
This was exactly what I was waiting for. Thank you!
Мне кажется, что иногда можно использовать обе версии, но они имеют разное значение, например:
Я не хочу пиццу (то есть я не хочу именно эту пиццу, а, возможно, другой вид или другой кусок той же пиццы)
Я не хочу пиццы (то есть я не хочу никакой пиццы, но, пожалуй, борщ)
Хороший пример этих тонких нюансов, спасибо!
Это что-то в духе: а не выпить ли нам коньяку/коньяка или чаю/чая? У Микитки сына Алексеева было что-то про это.
@@dmitryche8905 коньяку и чаю оба в разделительном падеже.
I have waited for this lesson for a long time. Thank you
Спасибо вам большое за объяснение))
2:14 Would there be any difference/nuance in meaning between "он не прочитал ни одной книги" and, say, "он ни одной книги не прочитал"?
The general tendency is for new or emphasized information to come last, so "он не прочитал ни одной книги" would fit that context; but for informal or emotionally colored speech, that tendency can be flipped around: "он ни одной книги не прочитал." So I think either is possible. There's more on word order here: th-cam.com/play/PLrIkLgUgjNHcRaTtzkvU4px_IbHypxIAf.html
:)
When the genitive is used for the direct object with affirmative sentences, does it have similar rules to the ones described? For example, saying "Она хочет скандалов" seems to unserline that the subject enjoys creating scandals, drama, etc. on a general level, whereas saying "Она хочет скандалы" doesn't carry as much of that nuance.
I rarely see this construction with affirmative sentences, but I still think it's worth explaining.
I'll do a video on this soon - one use of the genitive is sometimes called "partitive," for expressing a portion of something, often like "some" in English. Michele Berdy wrote a nice column to introduce this a while back: www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/02/06/a-little-bit-of-this-a-little-bit-of-that-a31827
I use a textbook from the 70s which states that "the direct object of a negated verb is _usually_ in the genitive" (so, the rule rather than the exception) *except* when referring to a specific object or person (e.g. Я не знаю его женУ.) Even in that case, use of the accusative is considered colloquial.
I wouldn't argue with that - note careful inclusion of the word "usually." It'd be interesting to see if there's been any shift in what's perceived as markedly colloquial; you'd need to do some careful work in a corpus, but this quick look at an ngram is an interesting comparison of не читал эту vs не читал этой over time: books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=не+читал+эту%2Cне+читал+этой&year_start=1920&year_end=2019&corpus=ru-2019&smoothing=3
And here's a hint of a shift (just from a quick look at gramota.ru): -Какой падеж в этих конструкциях использовался раньше - родительный или винительный?
Прежде при глаголах с отрицанием почти всегда употреблялся родительный падеж. «Русская грамматика» пишет: «Единая старая норма обязательного родительного падежа при глаголах с отрицанием в современном языке под влиянием разговорной речи не выдерживается: во многих случаях употребление винительного падежа не только предпочитается, но и является единственно правильным». -gramota.ru/biblioteka/spravochniki/pismovnik/kakoy-padezh-nuzhen-pri-otritsanii
@@russiangrammar Interesting graph. I'd put my money on accusative the next few decades. 🙂
I might too; we'd just need to find a place where you can place bets on developments in Russian grammar in coming decades 🤣
Will you make a video about the dative being used when "no one" is the subject of the sentence? E.g. "в небе над нами горит звезда, некому кроме неё нам помочь"
Как всегда, благодарю Вас. Хорошее видео.
Are there any good textbooks for levels b-1 and b-2? The reason I'm asking is that I completed пять элементов (из златоуста) but I'm not very confident I could pass трки-1.
Any input is appreciated.
I'm not too familiar with пять элементов, but if you're at a point where grammar practice is still helpful, I often recommend Русский язык в упражнениях, by Хавронина - exercises on all the essentials, with an answer key.
Спасибо большое за это полезное видео
Great point!
Спасибо)
thank you
This usage of the genitive feels a lot like a partitive case, e.g., Нет горячей воды as in "there is _none of_ the hot water"
Thank you short things are good😊😊😊😊😊
супер интересно! сейчас понятно, почему русские иногда используют родительный падеж с "не" :)
Very clear and useful video👏👏🇷🇺❤‼️