@@HaydrogenBomb 1) Vander with the monkey bomb. 2) Silco with the minigun. 3) Vander (after singe's resurrection) with the magic pistol. 4) Vander (after Victor's resurrection) with the grenade.
I think Cait's switch wasn't entirely because of Vi. They show several times that she already didn't really like or trust Ambessa. This was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
It’s a good joke but yeah, people tend to forget Cait’s been pushing back and questioning things before the mongoose scene. Also, Singed made her reflect tf out of what she’s been letting take over her.
@@lovequinn7521 It just doesn't have any room to breathe and it feeds on speculation. The first act does it well, it is setup to the dictator arc next, but that one happens offscreen, by the time we get back to her she is already antagonizing Ambessa, she is already saying stuff like "Why is peace always the justification for violence", in episode 5 she barely does anything because it isn't her episode and in episode 6 she is already our friend again. It is all sudden and rushed because Arcane wants to do a LOT with not enough time, this fast pace is what was so good about season 1(with flaws in timebomb and Sky)but in season 2 it harms a lot of the story that needed so much more. Don't misunderstand me, i love season 2 and that's why i'm way more critical about it
One additional thing that, while not confirmed in the show, I think may have contributed to Caitlyn's switch. She says in an earlier episode that she thought she had seen the last of "Zaun's perversions" before seeing the ferociousness of Warwick, but after learning where it comes from, shimmer and Warwick are once again spawned not from Zaun, but from a Piltover scientist. Zaun keeps getting framed for issues caused by Piltover, and once seeing the commune and learning about the truth behind Warwick's identity, I think she fully realized she's just on the wrong side of it all.
ooooooh! Thank you, I never thought about that! At first reading your comment, I was like "but Singed is a Zaunite", but then it hit me. He was Dr. Reveck and thrown off the academy... yes. Damn!
Yeah, people just like to assume she's downright evil because she's cop (can't blame them for that, but this ain't real life, this is fiction), when she has proven time and again that she's not without a strict moral compass. Yes, she was being manipulated by Ambessa, but... She didn't really do everything she told her to do, and she questioned her ulterior motives from the start.
27:50 - "Just cause of the dad?" Is something I am surprised to see so many reactors say, or even something along those lines. We are shown repeatedly in episodes 4 and 5 that Caitlyn is having doubts, having second thoughts, hesitant to fully embrace Ambessa's views and tactics, that she's wavering, getting tired of it. I think the final straw is the moment when Caitlyn discovers Ambessa working with Singed/Dr. Reveck; Ambessa is clearly surprised to see Caitlyn in that situation and is probably trying to size up which one of her prizes is more worth it - the doctor or the apprentice. When Caitlyn reveals who he is and alludes to what he's done, she doesn't haul off on Ambessa about it, because she knows better. She's really clearly trying to sort out when the right moment is to be done with Ambessa and she knows it's not going to be simple or easy. Vi showing up is the final straw.
It's also worth mentioning that she had just met Singed. She just learned that the one responsible for all the "Zaun's abominations" she was fighting against ended up being yet another piltovian abusing them. Then he reveals that all the horrifying things he did was because of the loss of a loved one. Cait saw her reflection in Singed and she didn't like what she saw.
Caitlyn caries a lot of remorse because of her actions. We've seen her doubting, but we've also seen her question Ambessa. Another important point is that she saw Singed and his daughter. She saw someone comiting atrocities for a dead loved one, in a similar fashion to what she did. The shot of Caitlyn standing above the coffin of Singed's daughter is pretty similar to the shot of Caitlyn above her mother's coffin.
I am curious what makes Caitlyn less redeemable than say, Catra? Both were in their early 20s during their dictator eras. Is it because she and Vi kissed before the moment with the butt of the rifle? Because Catra was much more physically violent with Adora throughout the series, including trying to kill her, but they’d never been physically romantic before then. To be clear, I say all this as someone who loves both Caitlyn and Catra. I’m just honestly shocked by the level of vitriol Montana has for Caitlyn and I’m trying to understand.
That is a great comparison, but I think there’s one big difference and that’s in the age. Catra is a teen and young adult through the entire series whereas for majority of Arcane Cait is an adult of much higher standing who is able to actually have connection with people, essentially Catra is far more vulnerable and immature. There’s also the fact that Cait’s was going from one of the more morally good characters to one of the morally worst, whereas Catra was a villain until the end.
I've been some thinking on this subject, and don't think Catra the appropriate comparison to make here. They're backgrounds don't line up: Caitlin grew up with everything while Catra had nothing. If anyone fits Caitlin's situation, it's Glimmer. Both gained a position of power after losing their mothers, putting them in an improper head space to be in that situation. Both are manipulated by outside forces acting to fill that void.
@MegaSpecter8105 I'm sorry but "one of the morally worst" it's a huge stretch. Considering characters like Ambessa, Silco, Salo, Singed, Viktor even and Caitlyn doesn't come close to what they did.
I think what makes a huge difference is the fact that Caitlyn and Catra not only come from completely different backgrounds and their relationship with Vi and Adora respectively is very different, but Catra was also severely abused not just throughout her whole childhood, but also during the events of the show, which frames her mental state in a very different way. Caitlyn comes from an extremely privileged background and has an immense amount of power, especially over someone like Vi, who comes from the Undercity. Adora and Catra knew each other from childhood and were best friends for their entire lives, and Catra doesn't have a class privilege and power compared to Adora. If we really wanted to split hairs, Adora had privilege in their childhood compared to Catra due to Shadow Weaver's 'love' of her and hatred and abuse of Catra (they were both abused by her, but Catra was the scapegoat and Adora the golden child). Also, She-Ra is *about* Catra and Adora, so their relationship was given much more time to develop than Caitlyn and Vi's. Other than the fact that both of these are lesbian couples and fought at a certain point in time, there's really no comparison here; the power dynamics and how long they've known each other makes a *complete* difference.
@Marta-uv4id Can't disagree with anything here, you're so right. If anything, Glimmer the more apt comparison to Caitlin in this case, specifically season four Glimmer.
Cait never really trusted Ambessa. Just worked with her due to her power. She mentioned repeatedly even to Ambessa that she didn't really trust her. Cait turning on Ambessa was a combination of the general distrust, not liking how Rictus antagonized the people of Zaun, how Ambessa was going after a monster weapon, her feelings for Vi, and her loss of a parent and not wanting Vi to go through all that. She was primed to turn and just needed a trigger. Isha sacrificed herself to in part save Jinx. They clearly weren't gonna stop trying to protect him even after he was spewing lava and gutting people so she saved the one person she really cared about.
I don't understand the Caitlyn HATE. BOTH Cait and Jinx did questionable things, i mean.. Jinx literally murdered people.. BUT for some reason only Jinx is reedemable??? .. why is Cait the one hated on. Her actions were coming from grief. Whatever, I LOVE LOVE Caitlyn. ❤
Well I think the difference is these reactors shipped Cait and Vi and seeing Caitlyn hurt Vi (literally physically domestic abuse wise and mentally) kinda made people see her in a different light. Hurting or not domestic abuse and gassing a bunch of poor people is still a solid reason to dislike a character (coming from someone who’s neutral about Caitlyn) Jinx on the other hand (in her pov) has murdered oppressors who killed her parents while suffering from mental issues and under a mob boss
@@idk2545 I mean, Caitlyns mom was murdered by Jinx, a Zaunite. If Jinx can indiscriminately murder Piltovans, because enforcers killed her parents, then Caitlyn can (nonlethally) gas criminals in Zaun. The logic isn't lining up. People hate Cait cause she's privileged, that's pretty much it.
@idk2545 Let’s be fair though, Jinx didn’t only kill her opressors. It is made very clear that she barely targeted Piltover because Silco had dealings up there. What she did do was kill opposing Zaunite forces, people who got on his bad side and freedom fighters like the Firelights and built Silco weapons to help instil terror (aka help strengthen his leadership)
@ The enforcers were objectively her oppressors. She makes it obvious she HATES enforcers and this goes deep, even before they kill her parents (enemy music video gives more insight). This makes her more willing to murder them. We see in s2 that Jinx was led astray and was misled by Silco because once he’s gone she settles down wayyy more and takes the backseat, a rebel without a cause type of deal. Jinx greatest evil moment was definitely killing the firelights but I think from the audiences pov if Ekko can forgive her then why shouldn’t we? Ekko was really on the fence about making back up with Jinx and the decision felt more… natural. Vi on the other hand is pretty quick to fall back into Caitlyn clutches and let’s admit it is basically just down for whatever Cait says or wants to do. I think making Cait work her way back into earning Vi’s trust and respect would’ve been ideal for fans to like Caitlyn more.
@The “none lethally” is so petty. This is the same gas that made shimmered jinx waver and hurt that one random kids eye when Jinx through it back to Piltover. This same “non lethal” gas was the final straw that made Piltover done with Zaun. Jinx was born into systematic oppression, accidentally murdered her whole family, and took under the wing of a crime lord. Caitlyn WANTED to get in the forefront and in turn was exposed to the horrors of what’s to come. I understand Cait’s reasoning for everything but it’s way easier to feel more sympathetic towards Jinx for obvious reasons. Her being privileged is irrelevant there’s soooo many privileged characters in arcane. I think her hurting Vi is what really set people off especially since Vi is so easy forgiving. Besides you’re ignoring the domestic abuse mentioned.
I don't think the Cait flip was as sudden as some people say, tbh. The signs are there in previous episodes but I think made intentionally subtle by the writers so that in the moment between her and Vi there is tension and the audience is unsure of whether it was a plan or not Cait has never fully trusted Ambessa, and she was basically done with her BS at the end of episode 5. I mean, we literally saw her try to stab Ambessa in the back during the training scene lol But hearing that Vi's father was in danger was just the last straw to push her over
Yeah I mean emotions are volatile and can change like the wind, her hatred has faded and she's begun to think more rationally again. Also there's been a bunch of scenes throughout the last few episodes that showed how Caitlyn doesn't agree with the way things are being handled by Ambessa and her distrust of her.
@@aranthur Subtle and nuance parts,I like. Off screen arc on the other hand is kinda lame. She had a full tyrannical arc with Ambessa off screen for weeks/months between episodes 3 and 4. And by episode 4 she is already doubting Ambessa. All we got are implied dialogues that said she fully trusted Ambessa. That she followed Ambessa. That Ambessa got us this far. I would've appreciated fleshing out this entire arc for both Vi and Cait. The show seems to have just brushed through it and quickly resolved it without giving it time to breathe. I feel a 2-3 episodes Arc 1.5 would've made the season feel less cramped tbf. Maybe show more of Maddie and Loris to make the finale more impactful. Either way I feel there is something missing in this part.
I've been mostly agreeing with Kenny, more than Montana, I just don't personally understand the aggressive Cait hate. I think because Montana was so offended by episode 3 that she has been missing the signs of Caitlyn being hesitant. It's not like she's the only problematic lesbian with a unhappy villain arc (cough* Catra) so it's weird how strong her stance on Cait is. Thankfully Kenny gets it and I really appreciate two people discussing their different perspectives on these videos.
My exact thought's. I don't know what it is because I feel as though her hateful vision of Caitlyn is a bit much as she's missing the signs of Caitlyn not fully embracing the role that Ambessa gave her and Kenny did. I mean Arcane is incredibly intentional and the micro-expressions shown on her face say a lot since she is a very reserved person to say the least but due it being her first time watching and emotions can cloud your vision (just like Caitlyn cough cough), opinions can form quickly I guess idk still love them though.
montanna simply has personal issues witch we know of she shared that multiply times what people are missing is that montana is only holding a grudge for caitlyn for punching vi whitch for her is crossing the line for personal reasons
@@kamilszczęsny-m9d But that’s what makes the Catra thing more interesting to think about, because she was objectively way more violent towards Adora (to the point of trying to murder her multiple times), but Montana never had a problem with them ending up together. So is the difference there really just one kiss? And I say that as both a CaitVi and Catradora shipper. I just don’t understand the double standard here.
@@JNDReacts Well is not really a double standard. Cait didn't grow up with Vi, they were also dating and Cait being an adult, made the decision on herself to hit Vi, she could have left Vi and instead she chose to hit her. Catra while she hit Adora multiple times, they were enemies, not lovers and before that, they were just 2 people that grew up together. The relationship became official when she redeemed herself, not before that. And even then is cuestionable, but is a little bit more forgiven, because it is assumed that by redeeming herself she won't do it again. People just have the reasons to hate characters and that totally alright, besides she still hasen't react to the full series, there is 3 episodes left!
@TheDarkOne1920 They’ve posted all the reactions to Patreon. And while I get that the CaitVi/Catradora comparison isn’t one to one, I think they’re close enough to make the massive differences in the reactions confusing. Vi and Caitlyn weren’t dating, they’d kissed one time. And yeah, I agree that the rifle jab was excessive, but I’m pretty sure she only did it to make Vi let go of her arm. It’s not like it was just because.
Caitlyn isn't a monster. She made a mistake. A bad one with Vi. But that isn't the real her. She was blinded by grief and rage. You lose a parent or loved one and then have someone you think you can trust tell you to stop persuing what you believe is justice for them, and tell me you wouldn't snap. I think there's more than a few who would snap and do what Cait has done. It doesn't make her so evil that there's no going back. This show is all about its main characters not being perfect. Making mistakes. EVERYONE has. Even in the best morally characters. Vander, Vi, Jinx, Jayce, Viktor, Mel, Cait, and more are all flawed characters who at some point have made mistakes they aren't proud of. It's weather or not they can overcome those short comings and be a better person imo
Grief or mental health is not an excuse to hurt other poeple. A mistakes is when you do a math problem wrong, not hitting someone. Hitting people or killing others are decisions people make, that aren't mistakes, they are simply wrong actions or good actions, what falls into each category depends on if the actions hurt other people. Yes what is important is what does the person do to repair and atone for those actions, but that doesn't mean that people should forgive them for their horrible actions, specially people that were directly affected. In this case, yes VI decided to forgive her for hitting her, but that doesn't mean other poeple should be ok with the action that Cait took.
@@TheDarkOne1920 yeah ofc but that can go for literally every other character in this show too yet somehow the one ppl hold a grudge and show the less understanding and sympathy for it’s Caitlyn although other characters did considerably worse stuff.
@@RJose666 Just because we are criticizing one character doesn't mean others aren't guilty about horrible actions. But why talk about the horrible actions of characters that are supposed to be antagonists to the story, that would be pretty much stating the obvious. Is like saying Ambessa is a horrible person because she only wants to cause war no matter what, and that is pretty obvious and it would be a waste of time to state the obvious. What is not obvious is a character thats supposed to be good and for justice, to assult their partner, so naturally people are gonna talk more about a moraly good character taking the wrong path.
@@TheDarkOne1920 yeah no shi my issue it’s not ppl discussing the characters or disliking them; it’s the way ppl talk about Caitlyn like she’s some heartless irredeemable monster and over exaggerate what she did. To then turn around and justify the horrible and arguably worse actions of other characters. Like don’t get me started and how ppl glaze Silco’s actions to then say Cait is evil.
@@RJose666 Literally absolutely anyone glaze the actions of Silco, they simply ignore his actions because he was obviously an antagonists, a more complex one, but still an antagonists and again why point out his actions when all people know taht he is the bad guy. Also Montana never said that Cait was a monster, just that what she did is inrredimible in terms about her relationship with Vi. Cait is not a monster, but let's not pretend that her actions were lesser or that they didn't had any negative impact on people. And I like Cait, but I can understand that what she did was wrong and not all people will see their actions as easily forgivable
I feel like people really overlook how much Cait doesn’t like senseless violence and anybody becoming collateral for others agenda. She’s been like that since S1 and even continued to conduct herself this way in S2 when it came to her own tactics. She’s does not hate the common citizen in any city and her resentment for Zaun begins and ends with active terrorist and people peddling the drug ring. Any crash out and moment of lashing out hasn’t even approached being any worse or more irredeemable than most of the characters in this show. Even Ekko has the justifiable but flawed trait of seeing the entirety of Piltover as a group where absolutely no one cares about Zaun, which we know to be false.
I don't think Cait's switch was only due to Vi being there or calling her "Cupcake". Throughout the second act we have seen that Caitlyn doesn't agree with Ambessa's methods or actions at all. Wanting Cause for arrests, criticising Rictus using violence or her line "Why is peace always the justification for violence.". She really wasn't that much on Ambessa's side to begin with, but she was A: completly alone (No Jayce, Vi or Mel to help her or support her in her grieve or in defiance of Ambessa) and B: Very much dependent on Ambessa's forces in her pursuit of Jinx, which as it seems is the only reason she let the blockades and searches happen to begin with. So yeah I´d say that she wanted out pretty early on and Vi being there opened the door to getting out and maybe even being partly forgiven because of Cait saving Vi's dad. Also I think that despite everything Cait might have actually indirectly protected Zaun from more harm since the other option for Marshall would've been Salo who was against Zaun from the start and had no problem with an invasion or the use of hextech so I think she might've saved Zaun from a slaughter.
Interestingly, the fans who hate Caitlyn so much are kind of in the same mindset this act as Caitlyn was in act 1, their judgement being clouded by anger to the point that they miss/ignore things. Caitlyn ignored the fact that Vi stepped aside and let Caitlyn take the shot that ended up being at a reflection, before the fight in episode 3. Vi only stopped her when an innocent child got involved. The fans miss how Caitlyn’s been doubting Ambessa throughout act 2, so to them her switching sides seems to come out of nowhere. I’d also add that those fans are so blinded by their anger that they’ve forgotten everything about Caitlyn’s character from season 1, much like how Caitlyn forgets Vi’s character.
It's not that we forget that. It's that all this development that needs to happen in Act II to make Caitlin's pushback just . . . isn't there. Or rather, there's not NEARLY enough on display. They just skipped over her reign as dictator to the point when she starts doubting herself just to get to her redemption quicker, but it doesn't work that way. We don't see HOW she got to this point. Edit: Also, are we sure it's been six months? Cause I've heard folks say it's been one.
I saw a reactor that sums this up, she hated Cait coz she’s Jinx’ simp. She just refused to admit it at first that she didn’t like Cait coz Jinx didn’t like Cait. They choose to be blind by the other characters’ individual arc and traumas (caused directly by Jinx so they’ll excuse/dismiss). This is Arcane, they made sure we would see the sides of the characters and what drives them do the things they do to the point it’s hard to hate.
"It's inescapable. Humanity, Our very essence. Our emotions. Rage, compassion, hate, two sides of the same coin" just like Victor said. I love things like this in media since it really gives you insight into how a person thinks
There's no way you guys thought caitlyn and vi would be ultra angry with each other, maddie is the most obvious case of a rebound and Vi has been hallucinating Cait for the past six months. And when they meet again the best they could pull out was "mongoose" and "angry oil slick" like... they do not hate each other (also, I'm not saying they were on good terms or forgave each other for what they did, because we see them discussing in episode 8, I think it was more of a "let's fight together for a greater good (saving vander)" thing) Just one more thing, i think it's crazy to think of how high the stakes were for Caitlyn, she literally betrayed a noxian war general like damn
about caitvi: 6 months have passed, and they're still madly in love. also, caitlyn's very confused with ambessa actions lately, and actually, not agreeing. so they teaming up is very likely them both, because they're still desperate for each other's attention.
An important thing when it comes to Caitlyn siding with Vi here; I've seen people talking her already existing doubts in Ambessa, time healing her wounds... but I don't think they're the main factors at all. Remember, Vi is here to save a parent, her Dad. A parent Vi was certain since she MET Caitlyn was dead. The death of which drove Powder just as mad as the death of Caitlyn's mother drove Caitlyn. This isn't just, "my girlfriend needs me". "I lost my mother, one of the people I love most in the world. Now someone I love dearly is about to lose someone they love just as much, someone they only just got back, and it's almost entirely because of my own actions up to this point. More than that, the person I hated? She hurt me because she never stopped hurting from losing her own father, which is the SAME father she's about to lose AGAIN." There's no world where Cait goes along with Ambessa here.
All of the mentioned things are factors though. Her doubts in Ambessa, the passage of time, Singed speech, her own moral code, her love for Vi it all contributed to the choices she ends up making.
Tbh I don’t get why Caitlyn gets so much hate. I totally understand her, she just wanted to help in the first season and her only crime was falling in love with Vi, something that Jinx and her mental problems (let’s be honest, a lot of serial killers have mental problems and don’t justify their actions) didn’t accept. Jinx literally kidnapped Caitlyn, and then proceeded to kill her mom. How do you guys expect her to react? If some mental illness person kills your mom irl, are you going to be calm about it and let it go? Caitlyn was totally in a horrible position the sister of the woman she loved just killed her mother and she wants justice. She was blinded by rage and she never approved Ambessa’s actions, she actually confronted her about the brutality she was committing. Caitlyn is her own persona, I fell like people only want her to be “the girlfriend who has to be always emotionally available”. She in fact is not perfect and I think she was hard on Vi but again, it’s understandable when you’re hurting that much… something similar that happened when Vi hit Powder when Vander died. She knew she had to do something but Ambassa already had so mush power, so Vi appeared again in her life gave her hope. Caitlyn has an amazing story and I feel like Jinx and her are just different shades of blue. They are my favorite characters for that reason, bcz they might seem to be different but both of them have amazing plot stories. I wish people stopped being hypocrites and appreciated the characters more… it feels like they didn’t even watch the show bcz Arcane is all about that: love, change, wrath, forgiveness, humanity… but the superiority complex of some people are destroying the core of the show.
I WISH more people get it like u do! Montana has been pissing me off lately. And she’s the same person who never hated Catra when she was making all kinds of wrong doings in “She Ra”, for 5 seasons. It makes NO sense.
The hypocrisy of treating Caitlin as unredeemable for hitting Vi, but extending grace to Jynx to be redeemed even though she's committed multiple terrorist attacks and murdered dozens of individuals with little provocation, is rather frustrating to watch.
jinx herself also hits vi multiple times and even if it's different for siblings, there comes a point where you are crossing a line. and no one ever talks about the absolute trauma jinx put her sister through in the tea party which is also a form of emotional abuse
Absolutely agree I'm borderline on whether or not to finish the remainder of the reaction to S2. As you said, Jinx is a terrorist who killed people with a smile on her face. Even if Cait's mom didn't die, there's still the numerous enforcers that Jinx killed. Not all were corrupt like the sheriff. Those were Cait's comrades. To be clear, I loved Jinx's arc in S2. Overall, it was phenomenal to see how Jinx, Vi, Caitlin, etc diverge on their respective traumas and find their way towards healing by the end.
@@dougsides6038 i wont i'm not a fan of heavily biased reactors i enjoy watching reactors sympathize with all characters and see different povs but i doubt we will be getting it from them (no hate to kenny i do enjoy his more nuanced takes) like
Yeah I feel like it happens a lot with shows where people have completely different standards for characters and judge one far more harshally then another who has done the same/ similar thing out of favouritism, jealousy, anger, lack of insight, etc.
Because Season 2, as much as I like it (and I really, _really_ do), was incredibly rushed even compared to the breakneck pacing of Season 1. Arcane in general suffers from its 3x3 structure, but Season 1 knew what it wanted to be and dedicated itself to that concept, meanwhile Season 2 reeks of Riot's corporate meddling trying to quickly bridge the gap between Arcane and the Game Canon. With Jinx, the entirety of Season 1 revolved around her descent into terroristic villainy. That was the story; Jinx was the main character and everyone else was just the supporting cast involved with that. We see that journey from its genesis (a poor, severely mentally ill child) all the way to the inevitable conclusion (a terrorist born of trauma and abuse both societal and personal). With Cait, only Act 1 was dedicated to her descent into tyrannical villainy. She jumps from mourning to unintentional subtle bigotry to fascistic tyrant in a third of the time we had with Jinx, and Cait didn't have as much screen time as Little Powder did in their respective Act 1s. That's why Jinx _seems_ more justifiable than Cait. We see *every* major traumatizing event that was done to Jinx and how she reacted to and was shaped by them; meanwhile we see *three* of Cait's major events (Jinx's attack on the council, Renni's attack on the memorial, and Vi's perceived betrayal), and then suddenly she's supposed to be evil, except she's also not because she pushes back against Ambessa at every turn and folds like a sheet of paper as soon as Vi calls her 'Cupcake'. Season 2 tried to do too many things in same screen time that Season 1 dedicated to like three, if that, so much of the details of the individual stories were either cut or turned into music videos. All of this is why 2x7 is the best episode in Season 2. It does _two_ things, and *only* two things. It focuses *only* on [REDACTED] & [REDACTED], and [REDACTED], and dedicates its entire run time to telling their whole stories from their beginnings to their ends.
Same I see tons of people with that same take. Murder totally forgivable, but lashing out after a parents death and some questionable political moves? Straight to jail!!
@@blurrble5 With everything Jinx did in S1: -murders enforcers -murders some of Ekko's crew (including the pink haired girl who appears on the tree mural) -attempted to attempted kill Ekko in their fight -shoots at BOTH Vi & Caitlyn on the bridge -abducts Caitlyn in the shower -holds her at gun-point -asks Vi to shoot Cait -kills Cait's mom & two other councilors (Viktor also critically wounded) The double standards is unbelievable.
I think he's right. Cait didn't want to do that anymore, she asked Ambessa (while she stoked the fire) it it was for her that Rictus was "inciting violence". And "why is peace always a justification for violence"? And the dad thing, and as a cherry on top: Vi calling her cupcake, which, to be fair, she normally does when there's a problem or she's talking down to or teasing Cait, but still it's kind of a magic word ;) So yeah, I find it totally justified to find this a little thin, but seeing how fast paced this season is (Jinx is part of the plan, and we literally only learn about it in 5 words and no picture) I'd say, ... just go with it!
Im convinced now that the people who hate Caitlyn, vi and jinx must have watched the show with their eyes closed. People want to be spoon fed information because they can’t analyze to save their lives or want a clean cut hero that is soo good and soo boring and makes zero mistakes like an anime character
What’s so baffling is that, from the shows I’ve seen them react to, usually Montana is so empathetic to characters whose bad choices come from a place of pain/trauma. I’ve just been so confused ever since I saw their reaction to 2x03.
@@Ayla_Lopez I think for a lot of us the biggest source of confusion comes from her reaction to Catra from She-ra being so compassionate, I’d say more so than most reactions I’ve seen, when Catra did worse things-both in quality and quantity-than Caitlyn.
The reason Jinx gets so much more sympathy than Vi or Cait is basically that she's the one character show essentially holds the audiences hand with the entire way through yes, it kind fucking sucks but it is what it is.
I think a big part of Caitlyn's wake up call was the conversation with Singed. She realized that she didn't want to be a monster that used love as the justification to "actions that others deem unspeakable".?? (Something like that). She was at odds with Ambessa long before Vi came into the picture again. And without a second thought betrayed a warlord with forces that could easily destroy Piltover and Zaun, for Vi. This is the beginning of her (long redemption arc) but you have to pay close attention to her actions. I also think it's (not good) but beneficial to remeber that violence Is much more normalized in their world, when Caitlyn hits Vi with the butt of the gun. (Putting myself in her shoes in that moment.) I would not be happy to be compared to the murderer of my mother. Especially by the person (Vi) who has been reassuring that Jinx must be stopped. (We have more knowledge than them as the Omnimptitent viewer so i understand Vi also dw) Caitlyn's two major lapses in judgement are hitting Vi and shooting with Isha in the way. Also becoming a dictator, but I would argue that's more Ambessa since she's pulling the strings. (Caitlyn seems to be so confident in her shooting ability that she didn't believe she would miss Jinx/hit Isha) Not that she should take the risk of possibly shooting a child at all. But by this point Jinx has committed many crimes (harming both Zaun and Piltover in the process.) Kidnapping, murdering the firelights (Ekko's friend), Blowing up the council, working for Silco, distributing drugs and weapons. Also releasing the grey topside. Caitlyn is so blinded by rage and grief that she doesn't even see Isha just Jinx. But every character is Incredibly complex with the capacity for good and evil. It's just which one you will return to at the end of the day. Caitlyn is coming back to her morals. She knowns what she did was wrong and so she will continually apologize through her actions. Sorry this might just sound like the ramblings of a madwomen. And there's probably a better way to articulate it , but that's how I see it. Don't know if anyone else agrees or has any more insight to add. I think Jinx and Caitlyn have very interesting parallels.
I genuinely don’t understand how people with ears, eyes and brain can hate Cait… Especially after act 3… when she literally was ready to die to just win few minutes for Jayce.. and then she literally did EVERYTHING to fix things she did wrong in her grief/revenge/anger era … And people who still hate her r simply just stupid
Yep! It’s so annoying, it feels like they didn’t even understand the show at all… when I see someone hating on Caitlyn at the end of the show I just say: another one who watched Arcane, didn’t understand it and lost their time.
I could be reading too much into it, but when Vander says, "Don't touch my daughta" and slams Richter out the window, it doesn't look like he slashed at him like a beast. It looks like he punched him like his old self.
This is why I ask you guys to pay attention till little detail about Caitlyn since start act 2 cause you can see there is very different goals between her and Ambessa and how she actually disagree a lot with her. She only learn about how to be strong, other than that they as good as enemy. When Montana notice how Ambessa talk to Caitlyn, who she thought her 'boss', you should know that no, Cait is not in charge there like we think she did, its Ambessa all along.
the thing this show is does is show you that no one is innocent in anything here (besides Isha) while there are different times and reasons to dislike each character, i never truly hated any one of them. the Cait hate hopefully dies down soon
Because their last encouter had ended in physical altercation, maybe? At least Caitlyn seemed surprised too, so I guess it was at that moment she also learned that about Vi.
@@douglas2938 vi was never a person to hold a gruge to the people she loves remember what she did to jinx.also vi is a person who like to blame herself for everything.thats why she thinks it was her fault that her and cait split
@@kamilszczęsny-m9d That's a halft-truth because she did turn on Powder pretty quickly at first. But sure, it's in line with her character to even deal with abuse by blaming herself, but Caitlyn wouldn't have known before then.
I think Caitlyn was already at the point of wanting to turn against Ambessa but she was alone and seeing Vi again is what I think gave her the final push. Especially after learning that Vi is trying to safe her dad. Caitlyn most likely feels very empathetic towards that specifically. Caitlyn absolutely lost the plot for some time and let herself manipulate into a vengeful dictator but she’s still got a good heart that needed time to heal.
Once Jinx and Vi made up, they once again start protecting and doing anything for each other, no matter the cost. Jinx, while saving Vander's life, also saved Caitlyn, who she obsolutely could have left to die and who she immensely dislikes to say the least, but she saved her because of Vi. And Vi, despite being cut so badly she could barely walk earlier, ran to Jinx and shielded her from the explosion Isha caused, regardless of the cost to herself. They always have and always will hold love for each other, more than anyone else, no matter what they think.
I don’t understand the hostility Montana has with Caitlyn. Like I’ve been watching you guys videos for a while and she always tries to understand the characters. Like i remember agreeing so much with her when it came to Catra but now for some reason to her Cait is “irredeemable” and we can’t see past her previous wrong doings🤨, what’s with the different standards? when arguably Catra’s actions were way worse than Cait’s like😭
@@kamilszczęsny-m9dthis is why no one likes caitlyn defenders, you always have to make it about someone's actual real life character. Get off the screen and go outside, their reactions to your favorite fictional character can't hurt you
This was my initial response to episode 6: If you'll excuse me I'm just gonna...I'm just gonna...*walks over to the far dark corner of the room and gets in a fetal position, bawling eyes out.*
You guys.... ESPECIALLY Montana, seem to have forgotten that Caitlyn was kidnapped from her home and almost killed by Jinx BEFORE Jinx killed her mother and the government Caitlyn respected and worked for. I normally like Montana, but man am I angry at her hatred for Caitlyn right now. She's more upbeat about a mass-murderer than the victim of a mass-murderer.
Even when Vander lost control, he tried not to hurt Jinx and Vi. And he was crying, he knew exactly what was going on. So horrifying and heartbreaking. Rule one of Arcane: If there's even a hint of happiness, it's only so they can take it away later.
Don't look at my profile picture and think I'm biased BUT Cailtyn's change of heart, as well as most of her story throughout seasons 1 & 2, is shown in her expressions. How she reacts in her scenes, to give an example, there's especially one scene when Singed shows the state of his daughter to Caitlyn and Ambessa and says that all his efforts, even if evil, are born from love. Then, if you pause the exact moment when Caitlyn glances down at the casket of Singed's daughter, you'll see that it's almost the exact frame that was used when, in episode 1 of season 2, Caitlyn was looking at her own mother's casket in the funeral. Caitlyin despises Singed and she considers him a monster, and for a second, when he talked about his motives being born out of love she saw herself in him and THAT, I think, woke her up. It's in small details, glances and expressions that they tell us what's going on. We have to remember, too, that everything is animated, so those small details are purposely put there. Source: I pay very close attention to Caitlyn. 🧐
Also just before that she literally tracked him down and Ambessa and discovered Ambessa freed him for what she can assume her own schemes. That + all the hint and dialogues that shows she doesn't fully trust Ambessa. But, to be fair, there is so much and details to see in Arcane it's hard to catch on on everything and 90% of people are surprised by the "sudden" switch of Caitlyn. Sometimes I think the show is a little bit too subtle and should deliberatly have more clears hints at some stuff because it is impossible even by paying see all the stuff (like Caitlyn's train of thoughts) on a first watch. Sure it's gratifyin on a second watch to notice things but most people only watch once and that lead to have think opposite of what the writers were going for, for certains situations.
This one...this one made me cry to read... -Season 2 Episode 6 Isha's Song Lyrics Translation (Vocals by Eason Chen): Child, don't be afraid of the thorns With your barefoot You can find the essence of the world You see, the sky is turning grey How stunning the firework was No need for too much sorrow It's human nature, blossom and withered Yet, even stubborn rocks and barriers Bloom with flowers Push aside the mountains Let her sees me Tell those stars To shine onto me Blow away the dark clouds With that blue in my heart Even if the world is full of desolation We can lift our heads up and see the moon When we are still in the guise of children As one among millions, still must blossom into a solitary and splendid flower Don't wander in troubles anymore Don't forget Even if tears flow, keep running forward Run until even time cannot be found Be a carefree flying bird Push aside the mountains Let her sees me Tell those stars To shine onto me Blow away the dark clouds With that blue in my heart Even if the world is full of desolation We can lift our heads up and see the moon When we are still in the guise of children As one among millions, still must blossom into a solitary and splendid flower Don't wander in troubles anymore Don't forget Even if tears flow, keep running forward Run until even time cannot be found Be a carefree flying bird Stop searching Give me a hug Just quietly forget I'm fine the way I am -It's either these Lyrics or these: Children, don't be afraid of thorns and bare feet You can find precious things Look at this sky How beautiful are the black fireworks No need for too much sadness People are flourishing and withering But the stubborn rocks and barriers are also blooming Clear the mountains Let her look at me Tell the stars Light me up quickly Blow away the dark clouds Use a touch of blue Then the world is full We are desolate You can see the moon when you raise your head When we are still children Be a lonely fragrance that will bloom even though there are thousands of people Don’t be sad anymore Annoyance Don’t forget Even if you shed tears, you have to keep running You can’t even find the time when you run Be a bird in the sky Clear the mountains Let her see me Tell the stars Light me up quickly Blow away the dark clouds Use a touch of blue Forget it The world is full of desolation. We When we raise our heads, we can see the moon When we were still children To be a lonely fragrance that blooms even though there are thousands of people Don’t No matter how sad or troubled you are Don’t forget Even if you shed tears, you have to keep running You can’t even find the time when you run Be a bird in the sky 💜
I think what makes this episode even more tragic is the fact that the sisters got a brief moment of happiness and it was snatched from them in an instant. We know the whole situation with Vander wasn't sustainable because Viktor's commune was pretty shady, but the sisters were *actually* talking without arguing, about their past without any traumatic flashbacks on either of their parts and about being together once again. They had a single perfect moment with Vander and Isha, and it was immediately taken from them, because this is Arcane.
I want to add about Caitlyn’s switch up the scene where Caitlyn asks the doctor why he would do such monstrous acts he replies ‘the reason anyone commits monstrous acts. For love.” Which is what Caitlyn had been doing justifying her alliance with ambessa (someone who goes directly against all she believes and whom she never fully trusts )for justice for her mother for love. You can see in her eyes as she looks at his daughter’s casket the conflict. (Also this is not me saying cait has done anything close to as bad as singed but I think this was an eye opening scene for her. a chance to look in the mirror)
Cait was already not feeling well about her Alliance with Ambessa/Noxus in ep 4, she questiones the Noxians asking for more Fortifications. She still folds there and in s5 just barely but you can see how much she abhors it. Also I think Ambessa really liked her lieutenant but did not allow herself to act upon it. Also with Isha and the Gun, 1 Gem makes this into a powerful Stun Gun, 2 Gems most likely a very deadly one and 3 Gems is basicalle overloading it to blow up.
I have seen a theory that not only did Victor dying contribute to Vander losing control of course, but I think we would have seen him lose more control when the girls were still in the room with him as the other people died. Then we see Vander lose it a minute later once the girls are outside and he breaks out. All we see of that room once the fight starts is Singed standing in Vanders empty room cloaked in shadow. I truly believe he gave Vander the concoction he made to undo Victors work on Vander
the song was in mandarin because, as the kid is deaf and we can't understand her, most of us watching can't understand the song as well :) so really symbolic
in ishas memories we can see jinx's eyes turning blue in some frames, showing that isha brought powder back. aswell as ishas eyes turn blue in some frames aswell, showing that isha represented a part of powder. when they were running and drawing on the walls, jinx was painting pink as she now had taken the role of the big sister.. just like vi, as isha paints blue. the lines that they're painting are distant and at some point grow close, before jinx disappears from the frame before isha does, showing that jinx moves on without isha.
No hate but just want to point out the "Once again you are trying to kill my family" from Montana, like...as if Caitlyn didn't have a completely justifiable reason to before? You do rmb Jinx killed her mom, right? If you are Caitlyn, and you can somehow forgive and forget that's great for you. You are quite the saint literally, but Im sure 99% of the ppl can't.
throughout the whole show it was 'jinx vs powder' through everyone's eyes besides ishas. isha didn't love jinx nor powder separately she didn't care who she was she just loved the person she saw infront of her. and i think this is something that made their relationship special
Any scene with Vander in this episode absolutely *ruined* me. The moment when Viktor enters Vander's mind and "Remember Me" plays as Vander's memories flash on the screen in watercolor is one of the most gorgeous scenes in the entire show. But in every single moment you can feel just how much he is fighting the monster he has turned into because he loves Jinx and Vi *so* much, and you can just feel their love every time they hug or touch him. In his final moments he is desperately trying to fight Singed's poison, but in the end, he succumbs to it and dies once again not as a man, but a monster.
Wow.. I understood that some actions from Caitlyn was hard to digest in the first episodes since you are blind reacting to it but... I am disappointed that there was no further reflection, elaboration or careful analysis of her character later. These comments got a bit too one dimensional and personal in my opinion. They kind of miss so many important points of her story. You can have preferences but having such strong emotions towards a character in Arcane demonstrates a superficial perspective for me. I actually wanted to give this as a feedback since I have always enjoyed your empathy and analysis on the characters. I appreciate Kenny’s input though. I like how he looks further into everything and dont jump into conclusions right away. Always has his gears running.
I wonder if Ambessa started to see Catlyin as a surrogate daughter. She always told Mel that to be a ruler, she had to be both the fox and the wolf and Mel was only a fox in her eyes and Catlyin seems to show signs of being the wolf.
in episode two of this season when jinx was walking around as the song "sucker" is playing, when the song said "you're gone, sucker" was the exact moment isha fell onto jinx. signaling that ever since isha 'dropped' into jinx's life their fate was sealed.
Notice how when Vi spit on Cait, she wiped it TOWARDS her mouth. Yeah, she still got it bad.😂 Also, a hidden indicator that the arrest was part of their plan, for me anyway.
36:20 I just realized that when Viktor says compassion and the shot is Riktus' body, it might be referring to how Riktus had a moment of compassion just a few minutes before, where he hesitated to kill Jinx
I think the thing that hurts the most about Isha’s sacrifice is that Jinx is the only one who notices true danger Isha is in. She’s done this same exact stuff before and has been suffering the conqeunces since. It was probably like watching the past repeat itself but instead of hallucination its real
Ishas placement was odd, it felt like she was inserted simply to drive jinxs story further and for that reason many people found it hard to personally connect with her, so I get it
I don't think they understood what was Isha doing and got caught off guard, the moment the music starts you understand that Isha is going to sacrfice herself and the build up + flashback really makes it emotionnal. They didn''t catch that and were left with just the final explosion + wondering what was going on. They probably thought she was alive. Tbh the tropes helps you understand (lots of red flag) but her decisions is really sudden and almost not necessary so I can understand they didn't realize what was going on.
One thing I noticed was the symbolism Isha carries with her being mute. Ever since Jinx met isha, she stopped hearing the voices in her head. Isha represented those voices being muted and finally bringing peace to jinx’s head.
@@isaacPc9 That's just what he does. I see this guy on a bunch of reaction channels and all he does is copy top comments and post them on other channels' videos to farm likes. He's got them teed up before the video even starts (all 4 of his comments posted 30 minutes before premiere) hoping to monopolize the top of the comment section.
i'm sorry but the "beaUTIFUL BIRDS" synchronicity was spectacular. also Montana casually whipping out the psychology knowledge with the "Dunning-Kruger", what a G
EVERY reactor that I have watched doesn't seem to realize that Vi had TWO gauntlets, which means Isha took both HexTech crystals/stones then overloaded the pistol because it already had one crystal/stone in it. Isha sacrificed herself so that neither Jinx nor Vi would have to kill their father, also to put Vander out of his misery.
at the beginning of the episode ambessa explains the 3 core principles of the strength of noxus, but she found the 4th principle: Sacrifice Isha sacrifice herself to save everyone
Small but important caveat. What sent Vander/Warwick into a rage at the end wasn’t Viktor’s death but rather Singed injected him with the orange chemical solution. It’s a quick shot but Singed is standing over where Warwick was and it’s clued further with the orange liquid seething out of Warwick. On a completely different note I love episode 7 but a 8 and 9 doesn’t haven’t enough important conversations between our characters and it’s where the show could’ve been improved.
I'm laughing at how Montana had no problem with forgiving Catra but refusing to see ALL the signs in the previous episodes which repeatedly showed Caitlyn questioning Ambessa's ways. She just wanted Jinx.
funny that you say at around 5 minutes that naxusa has to be the next location when that was literally confirmed today with a trailer for the next show
Something that was pointed out was that Singed was left alone with Vander after the girls ran out and you see him standing in the room where Warwick burst out from. Implying that it was Singed not Jayce that caused Vander's meltdown
That's Arcane for you: if the characters are happy and/or things are looking up, everything is about to go straight to Hell. Part of the reason the reconciliation/alliance between Caitlyn and Vi can feel so jarring for some viewers can also be attributed to how much time has passed for us, the audience, versus how much has passed for the characters. For us, it's only been three episodes since their violent break-up; if you were watching the season as it came out, that was only a week, so it seems very fast for us. However, for Caitlyn and Vi, it's been months since they last saw each other. "Time heals all wounds" and "Absence makes the heart grow fonder" are enduring sayings for a reason.
Viktor's commune reminds me of the Utaru tribe from the game Horizon: Forbidden West. Edit: Jinx's Hex gun also reminds me of Megamind's "DEHYDRATION GUN!!"
Hey guys. League release a season trailer just now. And while it's called that way, it's actually more like a prelude to the next arcane show in Noxus. It's made by Fortische studio, which made Arcane. You should check it out.
I hate that after rewatching that scene, I now that as soon as Isha sees that Jinx is running towards her, tears start to well up in her eyes before she says goodbye.
Head to Patreon to see ALL OF Arcane and episodes 1 & 2 of Over the Garden Wall!
patreon.com/LettsReact
Just a suggestion, you should react to the Rising of the Shield Hero anime series.
Vander once again gets blown up by a blue-haired little girl shoving three hextech gems into something while trying to help.
The man can't catch a break.
If I had a nickel for every time Jinx's father figure is killed by something she built... I'd have 4 nickels.
@DrewTeter 🤨 . . . ☝️, ✌️, . . . sorry, what were there times?
@@HaydrogenBomb 1) Vander with the monkey bomb. 2) Silco with the minigun. 3) Vander (after singe's resurrection) with the magic pistol. 4) Vander (after Victor's resurrection) with the grenade.
@DrewTeter Ohhhh, Silco just completely slipped my mind. 😅
I think Cait's switch wasn't entirely because of Vi. They show several times that she already didn't really like or trust Ambessa. This was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
It’s a good joke but yeah, people tend to forget Cait’s been pushing back and questioning things before the mongoose scene. Also, Singed made her reflect tf out of what she’s been letting take over her.
True
Yeah, it's just that her arc is very weak this season
@@MatiasCirulli how so?
@@lovequinn7521 It just doesn't have any room to breathe and it feeds on speculation. The first act does it well, it is setup to the dictator arc next, but that one happens offscreen, by the time we get back to her she is already antagonizing Ambessa, she is already saying stuff like "Why is peace always the justification for violence", in episode 5 she barely does anything because it isn't her episode and in episode 6 she is already our friend again. It is all sudden and rushed because Arcane wants to do a LOT with not enough time, this fast pace is what was so good about season 1(with flaws in timebomb and Sky)but in season 2 it harms a lot of the story that needed so much more. Don't misunderstand me, i love season 2 and that's why i'm way more critical about it
One additional thing that, while not confirmed in the show, I think may have contributed to Caitlyn's switch. She says in an earlier episode that she thought she had seen the last of "Zaun's perversions" before seeing the ferociousness of Warwick, but after learning where it comes from, shimmer and Warwick are once again spawned not from Zaun, but from a Piltover scientist. Zaun keeps getting framed for issues caused by Piltover, and once seeing the commune and learning about the truth behind Warwick's identity, I think she fully realized she's just on the wrong side of it all.
ooooooh! Thank you, I never thought about that!
At first reading your comment, I was like "but Singed is a Zaunite", but then it hit me. He was Dr. Reveck and thrown off the academy... yes.
Damn!
That's such a good point!!
Yeah, people just like to assume she's downright evil because she's cop (can't blame them for that, but this ain't real life, this is fiction), when she has proven time and again that she's not without a strict moral compass. Yes, she was being manipulated by Ambessa, but... She didn't really do everything she told her to do, and she questioned her ulterior motives from the start.
T H A N K Y O U.
Now say it louder for the back row. 🎉
is singed really a piltover scientist when he's been living in the undercity atleast since viktor was a kid?
27:50 - "Just cause of the dad?" Is something I am surprised to see so many reactors say, or even something along those lines. We are shown repeatedly in episodes 4 and 5 that Caitlyn is having doubts, having second thoughts, hesitant to fully embrace Ambessa's views and tactics, that she's wavering, getting tired of it. I think the final straw is the moment when Caitlyn discovers Ambessa working with Singed/Dr. Reveck; Ambessa is clearly surprised to see Caitlyn in that situation and is probably trying to size up which one of her prizes is more worth it - the doctor or the apprentice. When Caitlyn reveals who he is and alludes to what he's done, she doesn't haul off on Ambessa about it, because she knows better. She's really clearly trying to sort out when the right moment is to be done with Ambessa and she knows it's not going to be simple or easy. Vi showing up is the final straw.
montanna logical thinking fell off
@@kamilszczęsny-m9d Ironically similar to the thing she hates Caitlyn for, being blind to logic and nuance due to hatred.
It's also worth mentioning that she had just met Singed. She just learned that the one responsible for all the "Zaun's abominations" she was fighting against ended up being yet another piltovian abusing them.
Then he reveals that all the horrifying things he did was because of the loss of a loved one. Cait saw her reflection in Singed and she didn't like what she saw.
@@JNDReactscatra ending the world
Montana😊
Caitlyn punching vi after she says shes acting like her mother killer
Montana 🤬
Caitlyn caries a lot of remorse because of her actions. We've seen her doubting, but we've also seen her question Ambessa. Another important point is that she saw Singed and his daughter. She saw someone comiting atrocities for a dead loved one, in a similar fashion to what she did. The shot of Caitlyn standing above the coffin of Singed's daughter is pretty similar to the shot of Caitlyn above her mother's coffin.
I am curious what makes Caitlyn less redeemable than say, Catra? Both were in their early 20s during their dictator eras. Is it because she and Vi kissed before the moment with the butt of the rifle? Because Catra was much more physically violent with Adora throughout the series, including trying to kill her, but they’d never been physically romantic before then.
To be clear, I say all this as someone who loves both Caitlyn and Catra. I’m just honestly shocked by the level of vitriol Montana has for Caitlyn and I’m trying to understand.
That is a great comparison, but I think there’s one big difference and that’s in the age. Catra is a teen and young adult through the entire series whereas for majority of Arcane Cait is an adult of much higher standing who is able to actually have connection with people, essentially Catra is far more vulnerable and immature. There’s also the fact that Cait’s was going from one of the more morally good characters to one of the morally worst, whereas Catra was a villain until the end.
I've been some thinking on this subject, and don't think Catra the appropriate comparison to make here. They're backgrounds don't line up: Caitlin grew up with everything while Catra had nothing.
If anyone fits Caitlin's situation, it's Glimmer. Both gained a position of power after losing their mothers, putting them in an improper head space to be in that situation. Both are manipulated by outside forces acting to fill that void.
@MegaSpecter8105 I'm sorry but "one of the morally worst" it's a huge stretch. Considering characters like Ambessa, Silco, Salo, Singed, Viktor even and Caitlyn doesn't come close to what they did.
I think what makes a huge difference is the fact that Caitlyn and Catra not only come from completely different backgrounds and their relationship with Vi and Adora respectively is very different, but Catra was also severely abused not just throughout her whole childhood, but also during the events of the show, which frames her mental state in a very different way. Caitlyn comes from an extremely privileged background and has an immense amount of power, especially over someone like Vi, who comes from the Undercity. Adora and Catra knew each other from childhood and were best friends for their entire lives, and Catra doesn't have a class privilege and power compared to Adora. If we really wanted to split hairs, Adora had privilege in their childhood compared to Catra due to Shadow Weaver's 'love' of her and hatred and abuse of Catra (they were both abused by her, but Catra was the scapegoat and Adora the golden child). Also, She-Ra is *about* Catra and Adora, so their relationship was given much more time to develop than Caitlyn and Vi's. Other than the fact that both of these are lesbian couples and fought at a certain point in time, there's really no comparison here; the power dynamics and how long they've known each other makes a *complete* difference.
@Marta-uv4id Can't disagree with anything here, you're so right. If anything, Glimmer the more apt comparison to Caitlin in this case, specifically season four Glimmer.
Cait never really trusted Ambessa. Just worked with her due to her power. She mentioned repeatedly even to Ambessa that she didn't really trust her. Cait turning on Ambessa was a combination of the general distrust, not liking how Rictus antagonized the people of Zaun, how Ambessa was going after a monster weapon, her feelings for Vi, and her loss of a parent and not wanting Vi to go through all that. She was primed to turn and just needed a trigger.
Isha sacrificed herself to in part save Jinx. They clearly weren't gonna stop trying to protect him even after he was spewing lava and gutting people so she saved the one person she really cared about.
Episode 2: Jinx makes finger gun gesture towards Isha
Kenny: "Do it back."
This episode: Well, she did it back.😭
SPOILER 👀
@crimsoncharan already commented that.
😔😔😪
I don't understand the Caitlyn HATE. BOTH Cait and Jinx did questionable things, i mean.. Jinx literally murdered people.. BUT for some reason only Jinx is reedemable??? .. why is Cait the one hated on. Her actions were coming from grief. Whatever, I LOVE LOVE Caitlyn. ❤
Well I think the difference is these reactors shipped Cait and Vi and seeing Caitlyn hurt Vi (literally physically domestic abuse wise and mentally) kinda made people see her in a different light. Hurting or not domestic abuse and gassing a bunch of poor people is still a solid reason to dislike a character (coming from someone who’s neutral about Caitlyn)
Jinx on the other hand (in her pov) has murdered oppressors who killed her parents while suffering from mental issues and under a mob boss
@@idk2545 I mean, Caitlyns mom was murdered by Jinx, a Zaunite. If Jinx can indiscriminately murder Piltovans, because enforcers killed her parents, then Caitlyn can (nonlethally) gas criminals in Zaun. The logic isn't lining up.
People hate Cait cause she's privileged, that's pretty much it.
@idk2545 Let’s be fair though, Jinx didn’t only kill her opressors. It is made very clear that she barely targeted Piltover because Silco had dealings up there. What she did do was kill opposing Zaunite forces, people who got on his bad side and freedom fighters like the Firelights and built Silco weapons to help instil terror (aka help strengthen his leadership)
@ The enforcers were objectively her oppressors. She makes it obvious she HATES enforcers and this goes deep, even before they kill her parents (enemy music video gives more insight). This makes her more willing to murder them. We see in s2 that Jinx was led astray and was misled by Silco because once he’s gone she settles down wayyy more and takes the backseat, a rebel without a cause type of deal.
Jinx greatest evil moment was definitely killing the firelights but I think from the audiences pov if Ekko can forgive her then why shouldn’t we? Ekko was really on the fence about making back up with Jinx and the decision felt more… natural. Vi on the other hand is pretty quick to fall back into Caitlyn clutches and let’s admit it is basically just down for whatever Cait says or wants to do. I think making Cait work her way back into earning Vi’s trust and respect would’ve been ideal for fans to like Caitlyn more.
@The “none lethally” is so petty. This is the same gas that made shimmered jinx waver and hurt that one random kids eye when Jinx through it back to Piltover. This same “non lethal” gas was the final straw that made Piltover done with Zaun. Jinx was born into systematic oppression, accidentally murdered her whole family, and took under the wing of a crime lord. Caitlyn WANTED to get in the forefront and in turn was exposed to the horrors of what’s to come. I understand Cait’s reasoning for everything but it’s way easier to feel more sympathetic towards Jinx for obvious reasons. Her being privileged is irrelevant there’s soooo many privileged characters in arcane. I think her hurting Vi is what really set people off especially since Vi is so easy forgiving.
Besides you’re ignoring the domestic abuse mentioned.
I don't think the Cait flip was as sudden as some people say, tbh. The signs are there in previous episodes but I think made intentionally subtle by the writers so that in the moment between her and Vi there is tension and the audience is unsure of whether it was a plan or not
Cait has never fully trusted Ambessa, and she was basically done with her BS at the end of episode 5. I mean, we literally saw her try to stab Ambessa in the back during the training scene lol
But hearing that Vi's father was in danger was just the last straw to push her over
I think the cupcake pushed her over.
Yeah I mean emotions are volatile and can change like the wind, her hatred has faded and she's begun to think more rationally again. Also there's been a bunch of scenes throughout the last few episodes that showed how Caitlyn doesn't agree with the way things are being handled by Ambessa and her distrust of her.
it was done poorly imo. too much subtly and speculation and progress off screen when it should’ve been at the forefront
@giladadadada1614 If you don't want subtlety and nuance, watch something other than Arcane
@@aranthur Subtle and nuance parts,I like. Off screen arc on the other hand is kinda lame. She had a full tyrannical arc with Ambessa off screen for weeks/months between episodes 3 and 4. And by episode 4 she is already doubting Ambessa. All we got are implied dialogues that said she fully trusted Ambessa. That she followed Ambessa. That Ambessa got us this far. I would've appreciated fleshing out this entire arc for both Vi and Cait. The show seems to have just brushed through it and quickly resolved it without giving it time to breathe. I feel a 2-3 episodes Arc 1.5 would've made the season feel less cramped tbf. Maybe show more of Maddie and Loris to make the finale more impactful. Either way I feel there is something missing in this part.
I've been mostly agreeing with Kenny, more than Montana, I just don't personally understand the aggressive Cait hate. I think because Montana was so offended by episode 3 that she has been missing the signs of Caitlyn being hesitant. It's not like she's the only problematic lesbian with a unhappy villain arc (cough* Catra) so it's weird how strong her stance on Cait is. Thankfully Kenny gets it and I really appreciate two people discussing their different perspectives on these videos.
My exact thought's. I don't know what it is because I feel as though her hateful vision of Caitlyn is a bit much as she's missing the signs of Caitlyn not fully embracing the role that Ambessa gave her and Kenny did. I mean Arcane is incredibly intentional and the micro-expressions shown on her face say a lot since she is a very reserved person to say the least but due it being her first time watching and emotions can cloud your vision (just like Caitlyn cough cough), opinions can form quickly I guess idk still love them though.
montanna simply has personal issues witch we know of she shared that multiply times
what people are missing is that montana is only holding a grudge for caitlyn for punching vi whitch for her is crossing the line for personal reasons
@@kamilszczęsny-m9d But that’s what makes the Catra thing more interesting to think about, because she was objectively way more violent towards Adora (to the point of trying to murder her multiple times), but Montana never had a problem with them ending up together. So is the difference there really just one kiss?
And I say that as both a CaitVi and Catradora shipper. I just don’t understand the double standard here.
@@JNDReacts Well is not really a double standard. Cait didn't grow up with Vi, they were also dating and Cait being an adult, made the decision on herself to hit Vi, she could have left Vi and instead she chose to hit her.
Catra while she hit Adora multiple times, they were enemies, not lovers and before that, they were just 2 people that grew up together. The relationship became official when she redeemed herself, not before that. And even then is cuestionable, but is a little bit more forgiven, because it is assumed that by redeeming herself she won't do it again.
People just have the reasons to hate characters and that totally alright, besides she still hasen't react to the full series, there is 3 episodes left!
@TheDarkOne1920 They’ve posted all the reactions to Patreon. And while I get that the CaitVi/Catradora comparison isn’t one to one, I think they’re close enough to make the massive differences in the reactions confusing. Vi and Caitlyn weren’t dating, they’d kissed one time. And yeah, I agree that the rifle jab was excessive, but I’m pretty sure she only did it to make Vi let go of her arm. It’s not like it was just because.
Caitlyn isn't a monster. She made a mistake. A bad one with Vi. But that isn't the real her. She was blinded by grief and rage. You lose a parent or loved one and then have someone you think you can trust tell you to stop persuing what you believe is justice for them, and tell me you wouldn't snap. I think there's more than a few who would snap and do what Cait has done. It doesn't make her so evil that there's no going back. This show is all about its main characters not being perfect. Making mistakes. EVERYONE has. Even in the best morally characters. Vander, Vi, Jinx, Jayce, Viktor, Mel, Cait, and more are all flawed characters who at some point have made mistakes they aren't proud of. It's weather or not they can overcome those short comings and be a better person imo
Grief or mental health is not an excuse to hurt other poeple. A mistakes is when you do a math problem wrong, not hitting someone. Hitting people or killing others are decisions people make, that aren't mistakes, they are simply wrong actions or good actions, what falls into each category depends on if the actions hurt other people. Yes what is important is what does the person do to repair and atone for those actions, but that doesn't mean that people should forgive them for their horrible actions, specially people that were directly affected.
In this case, yes VI decided to forgive her for hitting her, but that doesn't mean other poeple should be ok with the action that Cait took.
@@TheDarkOne1920 yeah ofc but that can go for literally every other character in this show too yet somehow the one ppl hold a grudge and show the less understanding and sympathy for it’s Caitlyn although other characters did considerably worse stuff.
@@RJose666 Just because we are criticizing one character doesn't mean others aren't guilty about horrible actions. But why talk about the horrible actions of characters that are supposed to be antagonists to the story, that would be pretty much stating the obvious. Is like saying Ambessa is a horrible person because she only wants to cause war no matter what, and that is pretty obvious and it would be a waste of time to state the obvious. What is not obvious is a character thats supposed to be good and for justice, to assult their partner, so naturally people are gonna talk more about a moraly good character taking the wrong path.
@@TheDarkOne1920 yeah no shi my issue it’s not ppl discussing the characters or disliking them; it’s the way ppl talk about Caitlyn like she’s some heartless irredeemable monster and over exaggerate what she did. To then turn around and justify the horrible and arguably worse actions of other characters. Like don’t get me started and how ppl glaze Silco’s actions to then say Cait is evil.
@@RJose666 Literally absolutely anyone glaze the actions of Silco, they simply ignore his actions because he was obviously an antagonists, a more complex one, but still an antagonists and again why point out his actions when all people know taht he is the bad guy. Also Montana never said that Cait was a monster, just that what she did is inrredimible in terms about her relationship with Vi. Cait is not a monster, but let's not pretend that her actions were lesser or that they didn't had any negative impact on people.
And I like Cait, but I can understand that what she did was wrong and not all people will see their actions as easily forgivable
I feel like people really overlook how much Cait doesn’t like senseless violence and anybody becoming collateral for others agenda. She’s been like that since S1 and even continued to conduct herself this way in S2 when it came to her own tactics.
She’s does not hate the common citizen in any city and her resentment for Zaun begins and ends with active terrorist and people peddling the drug ring.
Any crash out and moment of lashing out hasn’t even approached being any worse or more irredeemable than most of the characters in this show. Even Ekko has the justifiable but flawed trait of seeing the entirety of Piltover as a group where absolutely no one cares about Zaun, which we know to be false.
Cait...girl you ain't slick. Wipin' Vi's spit down to your lips. We see you gurl. 💜
I don't think Cait's switch was only due to Vi being there or calling her "Cupcake". Throughout the second act we have seen that Caitlyn doesn't agree with Ambessa's methods or actions at all. Wanting Cause for arrests, criticising Rictus using violence or her line "Why is peace always the justification for violence.". She really wasn't that much on Ambessa's side to begin with, but she was A: completly alone (No Jayce, Vi or Mel to help her or support her in her grieve or in defiance of Ambessa) and B: Very much dependent on Ambessa's forces in her pursuit of Jinx, which as it seems is the only reason she let the blockades and searches happen to begin with.
So yeah I´d say that she wanted out pretty early on and Vi being there opened the door to getting out and maybe even being partly forgiven because of Cait saving Vi's dad.
Also I think that despite everything Cait might have actually indirectly protected Zaun from more harm since the other option for Marshall would've been Salo who was against Zaun from the start and had no problem with an invasion or the use of hextech so I think she might've saved Zaun from a slaughter.
Interestingly, the fans who hate Caitlyn so much are kind of in the same mindset this act as Caitlyn was in act 1, their judgement being clouded by anger to the point that they miss/ignore things.
Caitlyn ignored the fact that Vi stepped aside and let Caitlyn take the shot that ended up being at a reflection, before the fight in episode 3. Vi only stopped her when an innocent child got involved.
The fans miss how Caitlyn’s been doubting Ambessa throughout act 2, so to them her switching sides seems to come out of nowhere.
I’d also add that those fans are so blinded by their anger that they’ve forgotten everything about Caitlyn’s character from season 1, much like how Caitlyn forgets Vi’s character.
I think it’s because a lot of people only saw season 1 Caitlyn as just Vi girlfriend.
Ohh interesting
It's not that we forget that. It's that all this development that needs to happen in Act II to make Caitlin's pushback just . . . isn't there.
Or rather, there's not NEARLY enough on display. They just skipped over her reign as dictator to the point when she starts doubting herself just to get to her redemption quicker, but it doesn't work that way. We don't see HOW she got to this point.
Edit: Also, are we sure it's been six months? Cause I've heard folks say it's been one.
I saw a reactor that sums this up, she hated Cait coz she’s Jinx’ simp. She just refused to admit it at first that she didn’t like Cait coz Jinx didn’t like Cait.
They choose to be blind by the other characters’ individual arc and traumas (caused directly by Jinx so they’ll excuse/dismiss). This is Arcane, they made sure we would see the sides of the characters and what drives them do the things they do to the point it’s hard to hate.
"It's inescapable. Humanity, Our very essence. Our emotions. Rage, compassion, hate, two sides of the same coin" just like Victor said. I love things like this in media since it really gives you insight into how a person thinks
There's no way you guys thought caitlyn and vi would be ultra angry with each other, maddie is the most obvious case of a rebound and Vi has been hallucinating Cait for the past six months. And when they meet again the best they could pull out was "mongoose" and "angry oil slick" like... they do not hate each other
(also, I'm not saying they were on good terms or forgave each other for what they did, because we see them discussing in episode 8, I think it was more of a "let's fight together for a greater good (saving vander)" thing)
Just one more thing, i think it's crazy to think of how high the stakes were for Caitlyn, she literally betrayed a noxian war general like damn
Montana holdin a serious grudge lol
about caitvi: 6 months have passed, and they're still madly in love. also, caitlyn's very confused with ambessa actions lately, and actually, not agreeing. so they teaming up is very likely them both, because they're still desperate for each other's attention.
That just sums up the main problem with season 2. Too rushed
I’m glad Vi saw the truth of Cait’s trauma and “good heart” more clearly than Montana.
Vi is a character
@ Yes. Well said.
They could never make me hate Cait
An important thing when it comes to Caitlyn siding with Vi here; I've seen people talking her already existing doubts in Ambessa, time healing her wounds... but I don't think they're the main factors at all.
Remember, Vi is here to save a parent, her Dad. A parent Vi was certain since she MET Caitlyn was dead. The death of which drove Powder just as mad as the death of Caitlyn's mother drove Caitlyn. This isn't just, "my girlfriend needs me".
"I lost my mother, one of the people I love most in the world. Now someone I love dearly is about to lose someone they love just as much, someone they only just got back, and it's almost entirely because of my own actions up to this point. More than that, the person I hated? She hurt me because she never stopped hurting from losing her own father, which is the SAME father she's about to lose AGAIN."
There's no world where Cait goes along with Ambessa here.
All of the mentioned things are factors though. Her doubts in Ambessa, the passage of time, Singed speech, her own moral code, her love for Vi it all contributed to the choices she ends up making.
Tbh I don’t get why Caitlyn gets so much hate. I totally understand her, she just wanted to help in the first season and her only crime was falling in love with Vi, something that Jinx and her mental problems (let’s be honest, a lot of serial killers have mental problems and don’t justify their actions) didn’t accept. Jinx literally kidnapped Caitlyn, and then proceeded to kill her mom. How do you guys expect her to react? If some mental illness person kills your mom irl, are you going to be calm about it and let it go?
Caitlyn was totally in a horrible position the sister of the woman she loved just killed her mother and she wants justice. She was blinded by rage and she never approved Ambessa’s actions, she actually confronted her about the brutality she was committing.
Caitlyn is her own persona, I fell like people only want her to be “the girlfriend who has to be always emotionally available”. She in fact is not perfect and I think she was hard on Vi but again, it’s understandable when you’re hurting that much… something similar that happened when Vi hit Powder when Vander died.
She knew she had to do something but Ambassa already had so mush power, so Vi appeared again in her life gave her hope.
Caitlyn has an amazing story and I feel like Jinx and her are just different shades of blue. They are my favorite characters for that reason, bcz they might seem to be different but both of them have amazing plot stories.
I wish people stopped being hypocrites and appreciated the characters more… it feels like they didn’t even watch the show bcz Arcane is all about that: love, change, wrath, forgiveness, humanity… but the superiority complex of some people are destroying the core of the show.
I WISH more people get it like u do!
Montana has been pissing me off lately.
And she’s the same person who never hated Catra when she was making all kinds of wrong doings in “She Ra”, for 5 seasons. It makes NO sense.
@@sophiaescareno8410 comprehension skills my friend. we can't magically make them understand.
The hypocrisy of treating Caitlin as unredeemable for hitting Vi, but extending grace to Jynx to be redeemed even though she's committed multiple terrorist attacks and murdered dozens of individuals with little provocation, is rather frustrating to watch.
jinx herself also hits vi multiple times and even if it's different for siblings, there comes a point where you are crossing a line. and no one ever talks about the absolute trauma jinx put her sister through in the tea party which is also a form of emotional abuse
Absolutely agree
I'm borderline on whether or not to finish the remainder of the reaction to S2.
As you said, Jinx is a terrorist who killed people with a smile on her face. Even if Cait's mom didn't die, there's still the numerous enforcers that Jinx killed. Not all were corrupt like the sheriff. Those were Cait's comrades.
To be clear, I loved Jinx's arc in S2.
Overall, it was phenomenal to see how Jinx, Vi, Caitlin, etc diverge on their respective traumas and find their way towards healing by the end.
@@dougsides6038 i wont i'm not a fan of heavily biased reactors i enjoy watching reactors sympathize with all characters and see different povs but i doubt we will be getting it from them (no hate to kenny i do enjoy his more nuanced takes)
like
I don't understand how she can find Jinx's actions justifiable but Caitlyn's not
Yeah I feel like it happens a lot with shows where people have completely different standards for characters and judge one far more harshally then another who has done the same/ similar thing out of favouritism, jealousy, anger, lack of insight, etc.
Because Season 2, as much as I like it (and I really, _really_ do), was incredibly rushed even compared to the breakneck pacing of Season 1. Arcane in general suffers from its 3x3 structure, but Season 1 knew what it wanted to be and dedicated itself to that concept, meanwhile Season 2 reeks of Riot's corporate meddling trying to quickly bridge the gap between Arcane and the Game Canon.
With Jinx, the entirety of Season 1 revolved around her descent into terroristic villainy. That was the story; Jinx was the main character and everyone else was just the supporting cast involved with that. We see that journey from its genesis (a poor, severely mentally ill child) all the way to the inevitable conclusion (a terrorist born of trauma and abuse both societal and personal).
With Cait, only Act 1 was dedicated to her descent into tyrannical villainy. She jumps from mourning to unintentional subtle bigotry to fascistic tyrant in a third of the time we had with Jinx, and Cait didn't have as much screen time as Little Powder did in their respective Act 1s.
That's why Jinx _seems_ more justifiable than Cait. We see *every* major traumatizing event that was done to Jinx and how she reacted to and was shaped by them; meanwhile we see *three* of Cait's major events (Jinx's attack on the council, Renni's attack on the memorial, and Vi's perceived betrayal), and then suddenly she's supposed to be evil, except she's also not because she pushes back against Ambessa at every turn and folds like a sheet of paper as soon as Vi calls her 'Cupcake'. Season 2 tried to do too many things in same screen time that Season 1 dedicated to like three, if that, so much of the details of the individual stories were either cut or turned into music videos.
All of this is why 2x7 is the best episode in Season 2. It does _two_ things, and *only* two things. It focuses *only* on [REDACTED] & [REDACTED], and [REDACTED], and dedicates its entire run time to telling their whole stories from their beginnings to their ends.
Same I see tons of people with that same take. Murder totally forgivable, but lashing out after a parents death and some questionable political moves? Straight to jail!!
Jinx’s arc is a lot better written than Caitlyn’s so it’s easier to sympathize with her
@@blurrble5 With everything Jinx did in S1:
-murders enforcers
-murders some of Ekko's crew (including the pink haired girl who appears on the tree mural)
-attempted to attempted kill Ekko in their fight
-shoots at BOTH Vi & Caitlyn on the bridge
-abducts Caitlyn in the shower
-holds her at gun-point
-asks Vi to shoot Cait
-kills Cait's mom & two other councilors (Viktor also critically wounded)
The double standards is unbelievable.
Arcane S2 Ep2: Jinx does the finger gun gesture to Isha.
Kenny: Do it back.
Welp, ya got your wish.
I think he's right. Cait didn't want to do that anymore, she asked Ambessa (while she stoked the fire) it it was for her that Rictus was "inciting violence". And "why is peace always a justification for violence"?
And the dad thing, and as a cherry on top: Vi calling her cupcake, which, to be fair, she normally does when there's a problem or she's talking down to or teasing Cait, but still it's kind of a magic word ;)
So yeah, I find it totally justified to find this a little thin, but seeing how fast paced this season is (Jinx is part of the plan, and we literally only learn about it in 5 words and no picture) I'd say, ... just go with it!
Im convinced now that the people who hate Caitlyn, vi and jinx must have watched the show with their eyes closed.
People want to be spoon fed information because they can’t analyze to save their lives or want a clean cut hero that is soo good and soo boring and makes zero mistakes like an anime character
What’s so baffling is that, from the shows I’ve seen them react to, usually Montana is so empathetic to characters whose bad choices come from a place of pain/trauma. I’ve just been so confused ever since I saw their reaction to 2x03.
@@JNDReactsoh I’m new so I didn’t know that about Montana and now her reactions just confuse me even more ..
@@Ayla_Lopez I think for a lot of us the biggest source of confusion comes from her reaction to Catra from She-ra being so compassionate, I’d say more so than most reactions I’ve seen, when Catra did worse things-both in quality and quantity-than Caitlyn.
The reason Jinx gets so much more sympathy than Vi or Cait is basically that she's the one character show essentially holds the audiences hand with the entire way through yes, it kind fucking sucks but it is what it is.
I think a big part of Caitlyn's wake up call was the conversation with Singed. She realized that she didn't want to be a monster that used love as the justification to "actions that others deem unspeakable".?? (Something like that). She was at odds with Ambessa long before Vi came into the picture again. And without a second thought betrayed a warlord with forces that could easily destroy Piltover and Zaun, for Vi. This is the beginning of her (long redemption arc) but you have to pay close attention to her actions. I also think it's (not good) but beneficial to remeber that violence Is much more normalized in their world, when Caitlyn hits Vi with the butt of the gun. (Putting myself in her shoes in that moment.) I would not be happy to be compared to the murderer of my mother. Especially by the person (Vi) who has been reassuring that Jinx must be stopped. (We have more knowledge than them as the Omnimptitent viewer so i understand Vi also dw) Caitlyn's two major lapses in judgement are hitting Vi and shooting with Isha in the way. Also becoming a dictator, but I would argue that's more Ambessa since she's pulling the strings. (Caitlyn seems to be so confident in her shooting ability that she didn't believe she would miss Jinx/hit Isha) Not that she should take the risk of possibly shooting a child at all. But by this point Jinx has committed many crimes (harming both Zaun and Piltover in the process.) Kidnapping, murdering the firelights (Ekko's friend), Blowing up the council, working for Silco, distributing drugs and weapons. Also releasing the grey topside. Caitlyn is so blinded by rage and grief that she doesn't even see Isha just Jinx. But every character is Incredibly complex with the capacity for good and evil. It's just which one you will return to at the end of the day. Caitlyn is coming back to her morals. She knowns what she did was wrong and so she will continually apologize through her actions.
Sorry this might just sound like the ramblings of a madwomen. And there's probably a better way to articulate it , but that's how I see it. Don't know if anyone else agrees or has any more insight to add. I think Jinx and Caitlyn have very interesting parallels.
I think Cait's arc makes perfect sense. It wasn't overnight, it was clearly how it was happening.
I genuinely don’t understand how people with ears, eyes and brain can hate Cait…
Especially after act 3… when she literally was ready to die to just win few minutes for Jayce.. and then she literally did EVERYTHING to fix things she did wrong in her grief/revenge/anger era …
And people who still hate her r simply just stupid
💯 percent agree! It’s so infuriating
Yep! It’s so annoying, it feels like they didn’t even understand the show at all… when I see someone hating on Caitlyn at the end of the show I just say: another one who watched Arcane, didn’t understand it and lost their time.
I could be reading too much into it, but when Vander says, "Don't touch my daughta" and slams Richter out the window, it doesn't look like he slashed at him like a beast.
It looks like he punched him like his old self.
This is why I ask you guys to pay attention till little detail about Caitlyn since start act 2 cause you can see there is very different goals between her and Ambessa and how she actually disagree a lot with her. She only learn about how to be strong, other than that they as good as enemy. When Montana notice how Ambessa talk to Caitlyn, who she thought her 'boss', you should know that no, Cait is not in charge there like we think she did, its Ambessa all along.
Everyone as Ambessa calls in the charge and the screen goes black: "Don't end it there"
Everyone a few minutes after: "oh god , take it back."
the thing this show is does is show you that no one is innocent in anything here (besides Isha) while there are different times and reasons to dislike each character, i never truly hated any one of them. the Cait hate hopefully dies down soon
Exactly! That’s what I love about Arcane the most: no one is portrayed as perfect (Isha being the exception).
I miss her 😢
I really do not understand why cait and vi should still feel "rage" both had some time to cool down, but are adults...
Because their last encouter had ended in physical altercation, maybe?
At least Caitlyn seemed surprised too, so I guess it was at that moment she also learned that about Vi.
@@douglas2938 vi was never a person to hold a gruge to the people she loves
remember what she did to jinx.also vi is a person who like to blame herself for everything.thats why she thinks it was her fault that her and cait split
@@kamilszczęsny-m9d That's a halft-truth because she did turn on Powder pretty quickly at first.
But sure, it's in line with her character to even deal with abuse by blaming herself, but Caitlyn wouldn't have known before then.
@@douglas2938 When did Vi turned on Powder quickly? 🤨
@@douglas2938 witch is why shes not mad at cait because she knows how it feels when emotion and grief take over
I think Caitlyn was already at the point of wanting to turn against Ambessa but she was alone and seeing Vi again is what I think gave her the final push. Especially after learning that Vi is trying to safe her dad. Caitlyn most likely feels very empathetic towards that specifically. Caitlyn absolutely lost the plot for some time and let herself manipulate into a vengeful dictator but she’s still got a good heart that needed time to heal.
Once Jinx and Vi made up, they once again start protecting and doing anything for each other, no matter the cost. Jinx, while saving Vander's life, also saved Caitlyn, who she obsolutely could have left to die and who she immensely dislikes to say the least, but she saved her because of Vi. And Vi, despite being cut so badly she could barely walk earlier, ran to Jinx and shielded her from the explosion Isha caused, regardless of the cost to herself. They always have and always will hold love for each other, more than anyone else, no matter what they think.
I don’t understand the hostility Montana has with Caitlyn. Like I’ve been watching you guys videos for a while and she always tries to understand the characters. Like i remember agreeing so much with her when it came to Catra but now for some reason to her Cait is “irredeemable” and we can’t see past her previous wrong doings🤨, what’s with the different standards? when arguably Catra’s actions were way worse than Cait’s like😭
As a Catra fan, I agree with u. It makes zero sense and it’s down right annoying as heck.
because cait is rich and montana being woke liberal doesnt like that
@@kamilszczęsny-m9dthis is why no one likes caitlyn defenders, you always have to make it about someone's actual real life character. Get off the screen and go outside, their reactions to your favorite fictional character can't hurt you
@@aanthropocene Guess what? People's real life character can affect their reaction to fictional characters. So shocking, I know.
@@aanthropocene what? truth hurts
You know an episode is special when Letts React has these Thumbnails, ask JJK and AOT
Or Avatar, Korra, or FMAB
Everyone (the fans and most of the characters) was happy.
And the writers were like, “Let’s fix that.”
jinx is happy for almost half an episode.
Writers: ok that s more than enough
Yeah, they are like the writers of Spiderman, can't let him be too happy, gotta bring a canon event 😂
This was my initial response to episode 6:
If you'll excuse me I'm just gonna...I'm just gonna...*walks over to the far dark corner of the room and gets in a fetal position, bawling eyes out.*
You guys.... ESPECIALLY Montana, seem to have forgotten that Caitlyn was kidnapped from her home and almost killed by Jinx BEFORE Jinx killed her mother and the government Caitlyn respected and worked for.
I normally like Montana, but man am I angry at her hatred for Caitlyn right now. She's more upbeat about a mass-murderer than the victim of a mass-murderer.
Even when Vander lost control, he tried not to hurt Jinx and Vi. And he was crying, he knew exactly what was going on. So horrifying and heartbreaking. Rule one of Arcane: If there's even a hint of happiness, it's only so they can take it away later.
17:15 he tells him " you must survive" a bit similar to when he told him in the past" The mutation must survive"
Don't look at my profile picture and think I'm biased BUT Cailtyn's change of heart, as well as most of her story throughout seasons 1 & 2, is shown in her expressions. How she reacts in her scenes, to give an example, there's especially one scene when Singed shows the state of his daughter to Caitlyn and Ambessa and says that all his efforts, even if evil, are born from love. Then, if you pause the exact moment when Caitlyn glances down at the casket of Singed's daughter, you'll see that it's almost the exact frame that was used when, in episode 1 of season 2, Caitlyn was looking at her own mother's casket in the funeral. Caitlyin despises Singed and she considers him a monster, and for a second, when he talked about his motives being born out of love she saw herself in him and THAT, I think, woke her up. It's in small details, glances and expressions that they tell us what's going on. We have to remember, too, that everything is animated, so those small details are purposely put there.
Source: I pay very close attention to Caitlyn. 🧐
Also just before that she literally tracked him down and Ambessa and discovered Ambessa freed him for what she can assume her own schemes. That + all the hint and dialogues that shows she doesn't fully trust Ambessa.
But, to be fair, there is so much and details to see in Arcane it's hard to catch on on everything and 90% of people are surprised by the "sudden" switch of Caitlyn. Sometimes I think the show is a little bit too subtle and should deliberatly have more clears hints at some stuff because it is impossible even by paying see all the stuff (like Caitlyn's train of thoughts) on a first watch.
Sure it's gratifyin on a second watch to notice things but most people only watch once and that lead to have think opposite of what the writers were going for, for certains situations.
This one...this one made me cry to read...
-Season 2 Episode 6 Isha's Song Lyrics Translation (Vocals by Eason Chen):
Child, don't be afraid of the thorns
With your barefoot
You can find the essence of the world
You see, the sky is turning grey
How stunning the firework was
No need for too much sorrow
It's human nature, blossom and withered
Yet, even stubborn rocks and barriers
Bloom with flowers
Push aside the mountains
Let her sees me
Tell those stars
To shine onto me
Blow away the dark clouds
With that blue in my heart
Even if the world is full of desolation
We can lift our heads up and see the moon
When we are still in the guise of children
As one among millions, still must blossom into a solitary and splendid flower
Don't wander in troubles anymore
Don't forget
Even if tears flow, keep running forward
Run until even time cannot be found
Be a carefree flying bird
Push aside the mountains
Let her sees me
Tell those stars
To shine onto me
Blow away the dark clouds
With that blue in my heart
Even if the world is full of desolation
We can lift our heads up and see the moon
When we are still in the guise of children
As one among millions, still must blossom into a solitary and splendid flower
Don't wander in troubles anymore
Don't forget
Even if tears flow, keep running forward
Run until even time cannot be found
Be a carefree flying bird
Stop searching
Give me a hug
Just quietly forget
I'm fine the way I am
-It's either these Lyrics or these:
Children, don't be afraid of thorns and bare feet
You can find precious things
Look at this sky How beautiful are the black fireworks
No need for too much sadness
People are flourishing and withering
But the stubborn rocks and barriers are also blooming
Clear the mountains
Let her look at me
Tell the stars
Light me up quickly
Blow away the dark clouds
Use a touch of blue
Then the world is full We are desolate
You can see the moon when you raise your head
When we are still children
Be a lonely fragrance that will bloom even though there are thousands of people
Don’t be sad anymore Annoyance
Don’t forget
Even if you shed tears, you have to keep running
You can’t even find the time when you run
Be a bird in the sky
Clear the mountains
Let her see me
Tell the stars
Light me up quickly
Blow away the dark clouds
Use a touch of blue
Forget it The world is full of desolation. We
When we raise our heads, we can see the moon
When we were still children
To be a lonely fragrance that blooms even though there are thousands of people
Don’t No matter how sad or troubled you are
Don’t forget
Even if you shed tears, you have to keep running
You can’t even find the time when you run
Be a bird in the sky
💜
I think what makes this episode even more tragic is the fact that the sisters got a brief moment of happiness and it was snatched from them in an instant. We know the whole situation with Vander wasn't sustainable because Viktor's commune was pretty shady, but the sisters were *actually* talking without arguing, about their past without any traumatic flashbacks on either of their parts and about being together once again. They had a single perfect moment with Vander and Isha, and it was immediately taken from them, because this is Arcane.
I want to add about Caitlyn’s switch up the scene where Caitlyn asks the doctor why he would do such monstrous acts he replies ‘the reason anyone commits monstrous acts. For love.” Which is what Caitlyn had been doing justifying her alliance with ambessa (someone who goes directly against all she believes and whom she never fully trusts )for justice for her mother for love. You can see in her eyes as she looks at his daughter’s casket the conflict. (Also this is not me saying cait has done anything close to as bad as singed but I think this was an eye opening scene for her. a chance to look in the mirror)
Cait was already not feeling well about her Alliance with Ambessa/Noxus in ep 4, she questiones the Noxians asking for more Fortifications. She still folds there and in s5 just barely but you can see how much she abhors it. Also I think Ambessa really liked her lieutenant but did not allow herself to act upon it. Also with Isha and the Gun, 1 Gem makes this into a powerful Stun Gun, 2 Gems most likely a very deadly one and 3 Gems is basicalle overloading it to blow up.
"So we can really sell this plan, I need you to spit on me. Like really shoot it as close to my lips as possible!" -Cait probably
love how when vi sees someone suspicious she just always follows them. she's not even sneaky about it, she's just waddling
I have seen a theory that not only did Victor dying contribute to Vander losing control of course, but I think we would have seen him lose more control when the girls were still in the room with him as the other people died. Then we see Vander lose it a minute later once the girls are outside and he breaks out. All we see of that room once the fight starts is Singed standing in Vanders empty room cloaked in shadow. I truly believe he gave Vander the concoction he made to undo Victors work on Vander
the song was in mandarin because, as the kid is deaf and we can't understand her, most of us watching can't understand the song as well :) so really symbolic
in ishas memories we can see jinx's eyes turning blue in some frames, showing that isha brought powder back. aswell as ishas eyes turn blue in some frames aswell, showing that isha represented a part of powder.
when they were running and drawing on the walls, jinx was painting pink as she now had taken the role of the big sister.. just like vi, as isha paints blue. the lines that they're painting are distant and at some point grow close, before jinx disappears from the frame before isha does, showing that jinx moves on without isha.
No hate but just want to point out the "Once again you are trying to kill my family" from Montana, like...as if Caitlyn didn't have a completely justifiable reason to before? You do rmb Jinx killed her mom, right? If you are Caitlyn, and you can somehow forgive and forget that's great for you. You are quite the saint literally, but Im sure 99% of the ppl can't.
12:58 Wasn’t prepared for that 🤣
throughout the whole show it was 'jinx vs powder' through everyone's eyes besides ishas. isha didn't love jinx nor powder separately she didn't care who she was she just loved the person she saw infront of her. and i think this is something that made their relationship special
Kenny the goat, lov ur analysis on characters
Any scene with Vander in this episode absolutely *ruined* me. The moment when Viktor enters Vander's mind and "Remember Me" plays as Vander's memories flash on the screen in watercolor is one of the most gorgeous scenes in the entire show. But in every single moment you can feel just how much he is fighting the monster he has turned into because he loves Jinx and Vi *so* much, and you can just feel their love every time they hug or touch him. In his final moments he is desperately trying to fight Singed's poison, but in the end, he succumbs to it and dies once again not as a man, but a monster.
(At 8:43) I find it funny no one's reacting in shock that they see Vander's monstrous form, like this is normal.
Wow.. I understood that some actions from Caitlyn was hard to digest in the first episodes since you are blind reacting to it but... I am disappointed that there was no further reflection, elaboration or careful analysis of her character later. These comments got a bit too one dimensional and personal in my opinion. They kind of miss so many important points of her story. You can have preferences but having such strong emotions towards a character in Arcane demonstrates a superficial perspective for me. I actually wanted to give this as a feedback since I have always enjoyed your empathy and analysis on the characters.
I appreciate Kenny’s input though. I like how he looks further into everything and dont jump into conclusions right away. Always has his gears running.
I wonder if Ambessa started to see Catlyin as a surrogate daughter. She always told Mel that to be a ruler, she had to be both the fox and the wolf and Mel was only a fox in her eyes and Catlyin seems to show signs of being the wolf.
Based on how Rictus reacted when Ambessa said "we are kin", it doesn't feel like she's in the habit of saying it lightly.
in episode two of this season when jinx was walking around as the song "sucker" is playing, when the song said "you're gone, sucker" was the exact moment isha fell onto jinx. signaling that ever since isha 'dropped' into jinx's life their fate was sealed.
Notice how when Vi spit on Cait, she wiped it TOWARDS her mouth. Yeah, she still got it bad.😂 Also, a hidden indicator that the arrest was part of their plan, for me anyway.
Where have I seen this comment before?
@@benmoore8809 In the comments of every reaction to this episode I expect
RIP Rictus you will be missed
That glorious beard.
36:20 I just realized that when Viktor says compassion and the shot is Riktus' body, it might be referring to how Riktus had a moment of compassion just a few minutes before, where he hesitated to kill Jinx
I think the thing that hurts the most about Isha’s sacrifice is that Jinx is the only one who notices true danger Isha is in. She’s done this same exact stuff before and has been suffering the conqeunces since. It was probably like watching the past repeat itself but instead of hallucination its real
jinx tends to hallucinate hearing dead peoples voices, which she isnt going to do with isha because she was mute (i love them so much im unwell)
This is the first time I've seen a reaction channel that did not cry with Isha's death
Ishas placement was odd, it felt like she was inserted simply to drive jinxs story further and for that reason many people found it hard to personally connect with her, so I get it
I don't think they understood what was Isha doing and got caught off guard, the moment the music starts you understand that Isha is going to sacrfice herself and the build up + flashback really makes it emotionnal.
They didn''t catch that and were left with just the final explosion + wondering what was going on. They probably thought she was alive. Tbh the tropes helps you understand (lots of red flag) but her decisions is really sudden and almost not necessary so I can understand they didn't realize what was going on.
As soon as I saw Isha start following Jinx, I said to myself, "I will not get attached to this child". Mission level: Impossible
Vander was on a rampage, Isha saved a lot of people.
But he was fighting people who were attacking them? I don't quite get it
Eight years without crying. Then I watched this episode and cried like a little baby. Emotionally DESTROYED for the rest of the day
The amount of *insert character name here* NOOO titles that I've seen on this channel recently lmao.
It’s been a ROUGH TIME
I like that the thumbnail has so many relevant things but doesn't spoil too much
“He looks like dogshit” gurl thats the best that man has looked, rugged trauma Jayce > any other Jayce
One thing I noticed was the symbolism Isha carries with her being mute. Ever since Jinx met isha, she stopped hearing the voices in her head. Isha represented those voices being muted and finally bringing peace to jinx’s head.
You are hard at work every video explaining the show for them, aren't you?
@@isaacPc9 That's just what he does. I see this guy on a bunch of reaction channels and all he does is copy top comments and post them on other channels' videos to farm likes. He's got them teed up before the video even starts (all 4 of his comments posted 30 minutes before premiere) hoping to monopolize the top of the comment section.
@@benmoore8809wow that’s sad
@@benmoore8809 Fun fact, the d1sl1ke button works the same as the d0wnv0te button. Even if you can’t see it, it DOES lower the comment’s visibility!
i'm sorry but the "beaUTIFUL BIRDS" synchronicity was spectacular. also Montana casually whipping out the psychology knowledge with the "Dunning-Kruger", what a G
EVERY reactor that I have watched doesn't seem to realize that Vi had TWO gauntlets, which means Isha took both HexTech crystals/stones then overloaded the pistol because it already had one crystal/stone in it. Isha sacrificed herself so that neither Jinx nor Vi would have to kill their father, also to put Vander out of his misery.
"Please don't end here" right before tragedy strikes lmao
OMG I LOVE THE THUMBNAIL!!!
at the beginning of the episode ambessa explains the 3 core principles of the strength of noxus, but she found the 4th principle: Sacrifice
Isha sacrifice herself to save everyone
Small but important caveat. What sent Vander/Warwick into a rage at the end wasn’t Viktor’s death but rather Singed injected him with the orange chemical solution. It’s a quick shot but Singed is standing over where Warwick was and it’s clued further with the orange liquid seething out of Warwick.
On a completely different note I love episode 7 but a 8 and 9 doesn’t haven’t enough important conversations between our characters and it’s where the show could’ve been improved.
Remember: The 'H' in Arcane stands for happiness.
😂 While the “A” in Arcane stands for ANGST 💔
It's pisses me off that people hate caitlyn but but glaze vi and especially jinx
11:52 was the perfect chance to say Jinx
I'm laughing at how Montana had no problem with forgiving Catra but refusing to see ALL the signs in the previous episodes which repeatedly showed Caitlyn questioning Ambessa's ways. She just wanted Jinx.
funny that you say at around 5 minutes that naxusa has to be the next location when that was literally confirmed today with a trailer for the next show
Something that was pointed out was that Singed was left alone with Vander after the girls ran out and you see him standing in the room where Warwick burst out from. Implying that it was Singed not Jayce that caused Vander's meltdown
Beautiful birds 🤣
Jayce: "What have we done". Every single reactor: "No! It's 'what have YOU done', Jayce! Not we... YOU!"
That's Arcane for you: if the characters are happy and/or things are looking up, everything is about to go straight to Hell.
Part of the reason the reconciliation/alliance between Caitlyn and Vi can feel so jarring for some viewers can also be attributed to how much time has passed for us, the audience, versus how much has passed for the characters.
For us, it's only been three episodes since their violent break-up; if you were watching the season as it came out, that was only a week, so it seems very fast for us.
However, for Caitlyn and Vi, it's been months since they last saw each other. "Time heals all wounds" and "Absence makes the heart grow fonder" are enduring sayings for a reason.
Viktor's commune reminds me of the Utaru tribe from the game Horizon: Forbidden West.
Edit: Jinx's Hex gun also reminds me of Megamind's "DEHYDRATION GUN!!"
"Looks more like a butterfly than a hammer" 👀👀👀
Hey guys. League release a season trailer just now. And while it's called that way, it's actually more like a prelude to the next arcane show in Noxus. It's made by Fortische studio, which made Arcane. You should check it out.
I hate that after rewatching that scene, I now that as soon as Isha sees that Jinx is running towards her, tears start to well up in her eyes before she says goodbye.
16:20, BIG BRAIN FLEX for Letts React.
I believe this ep got a 9.8 rating and Im still confident that it is more than deserved.