The suit doesn't make you negative because it's filled with water. Water is neutral in water. You are negative because you let air out of the suit. If you rely on the suit as a backup BCD you will be fine but you can turn away from the failure and retain air in the suit.
This is brilliant. I always had a big worry in the back of my mind what might happen if my drysuit failed. Not so much of a worry with my crushed neoprene ( it would just turn into a wetsuit) but with the trilaminate I had this fear I would sink to the bottom of the sea. I had images of myself trying to use my dive knife (don’t think it would work) to cut myself out of the drysuit. So now if I did get a catastrophic failure I’ll just calmly ascend. Great demo , thanks heaps
When I started dry suit, I had a zipper fail with my Bare trilam (the zipper wasn't fully seated.) This was a shore night dive off of Tacoma Washington. Upon entry, I felt that 'trickle of cold' feeling, that should have been my first warning indicator that the suit wasn't fully dry, but I was new to dry suits and didn't understand this. I continued the dive, by finning out to our drop point. I remember that my Scubapro Hydros BCD was fully inflated, but I was kicking to keep my head out of the water. I dropped with my group, like a rock! I tried to slow my descent by adding air to the suit, which immediately burped out of the neck seal (no room in the suit for air!) I switched to my BCD, inflating it, which slowed and eventually stopped my descent, but I still hit the bottom. I must have been pretty numb from the cold, but I don't remember being uncomfortable in the 50F water. I finished the dive, but as I started walking out of the water, I realized I resembled the Michelin Man! Our water entry/exit point had concrete bleacher-like steps. I couldn't get my suit off due to the water weight, so I ended up laying upside down on the steps, then unzipped the cross-chest zipper. This is why we wear a BCD with a dry suit! without the BCD I would have been in some serious trouble. One thing we discuss is that we can use our DSMB's for additional emergency lift, should the suit fail, and the BCD doesn't have enough buoyancy.
Hello Bryan Dees. You are correct, this is the reason we wear a BCD, which of course is used for our buoyancy control. We teach a diver survival course here, and one of the skills we teach is how to use an SMB for buoyancy control in the worst case scenario.
Wow. IMHO, This is the best scuba-related video on TH-cam - bar none. It's simply chock full o' very useful information and perfectly executed demonstrations and videography. The hints on how to minimize your lead and still have perfect buoyancy are great, and the eye-popping demos are more eloquent than words! Keep up the great work!
Thank you for another excellent video demonstrating proper scuba skills and how to deal with catastrophic failures. The knowledge and experience you share make us all better divers.
Great video and nice work taking one for the team. 😃 Funny how perceptions can vary in a persons mind until they are exposed to new concepts and understandings. No one thinks twice diving a wetsuit about being wet to the core, of course most wetsuits are inherently much more buoyant by design than a drysuit. This just demonstrate the benefit of seeking out a skilled certified dive instructor and training program. 👍 Cheers, #SeattleRingHunter
Hello @Abosaadssg69, I would suggest following what the book says. No one really wants to swim around in a totally flooded Drysuit. I would 100% of the time abort my dive if I had a catastrophic failure as I demonstrated in this video.
Excellent video. Never play down the importance of a balanced rig - something I’ve come to take much more seriously diving twins and having no ‘ditch-able’ weights.
Hello Adam Reid, glad you liked the video. We encourage all divers to dive with balanced rig, with or without ditch-able weights. One of the biggest issues the Scuba Industry has suffered from is Instructors that will overweight their students instead of spending time with them to get their weight requirements just right.
Excellent demo! Balanced rig is such a good concept. Of course, if you're gonna flood a suit, a swimming pool at 80F is the best place. When you need a dry suit, it's because it's cold and that has 2 effects. Number one, if it floods you are suddenly going to get cold, really cold. And that can mean serious hypothermia. In the 40 degree F water I dive in you may have only a few minutes of useful consciousness so you are going to need to be out of the water as soon as is safe. Number two, because it's cold you will likely have a fair amount of air in the suit, not just to relieve the squeeze but to keep warm. So you will need a bit more lead than in this demo. But the balanced rig concept still works. With my twins I have to weight to be neutral at the end of the dive when they're nearly empty. That means at the start I'm carrying 9 lbs more than I need to stay neutral. But even so, I've proved I can still swim up from 100ft without the aid of the BC or suit, and in fact I'm still venting just as normal.
Glad you like the video Tim Gosling, and you make a great point. If this occurs in Open Water (cold water that is), hypothermia is the biggest risk to divers. This is why we stressed to go ahead and abort the dive.
That is Exactly, what I was wondering. When you see it completely flooded makes Sense. I thought the under garment would soak up so much water and make you act like the Titanic, So cool to see it live Very good.
Great demo. What you did not mention: flooded suit is heavy on land. Claiming ladders is way out harder so be prepared. When you take into account that dry suit diving normally means colder water claiming ladders with flooded suit is HARD. You have extra weight AND at least dome level on coldness. Belive me I know by experience...
I did the perfect buoyancy SSI, the very next day when I got my OWD and even then it helps me a lot, but to be honest, I would recommend to do it again if you get experiance, because I believe even then you would learn much. If you got the perfect buoyancy, you can play a little bit with your class or dive buddies, like keep exactly at 3.3 m etc. 😊
Hello Ben Heckendorn, we agree. A lot of divers will over look the value that the Perfect Buoyancy Course offers. Its a great course that allows you to fine tune your buoyancy each time you add a new essential piece of equipment. Most training centers / SSI Instructors will allow you to gain confined water time and will even mentor you with your new equipment. This is usually done free of charge (excluding pool fees). Here at Lake Hickory Scuba, we allow divers to use the pool anytime they need for just the entry fee. They can practice any skill they need to work on, including buoyancy and trim, without needing to pay for a full course. This helps if they already have the Perfect Buoyancy Course. No need to pay twice for it.
Nice video! If your dry suit failure is due to a failed shoulder zipper, it is unlikely that you will be able to attain neutral buoyancy by putting more air in to the dry suit. The air will merely escape via the failed zipper. In which case you may be relying on BCD assisted buoyancy and/or removal of weights. This is where a weight harness is useful, as you could release one weight pocket and perhaps still have reasonable buoyancy control. Back in August 1983, in writing up a "Dry Suit Endorsement" for the Scottish Sub Aqua Club, I performed a failed shoulder zipper exercise in the sea at 15 metres depth with no BCD. (At that time a BCD was not compulsory with a Dry suit.) Having made sure that the suit was fully flooded, I removed my weight belt, gave it to my "safety diver" and could have continued the dive, neutrally buoyant. The amusing aspect was that I had to assist my "safety diver" out of the water, as he had my weight belt as well as his own weight belt. [ SAFETY NOTE: there were 4 divers in the water; 2 divers doing various dry suit exercises and 2 safety divers all on a gently sloping seabed, so that we could walk out if necessary]
Hello Keith Waugh, thank you for sharing your experience with us. We are currently producing a video on weight harnesses this week. Should be up by the end of the month. Glad to hear that you were able to help your safety diver out of the water.
Thanks a lot. Beats me how you get sinking from the surface with this little weight. I dive in a Waterproof DX1 with 10mm hood (cold lakes here...), 12L steel tank on an aluminum plate and still need about 10 kg at the moment. In the beginning of the dive that's plenty, but at the end I keep having difficutlies to keep myself from popping up on the last maybe 3 meters even with no air in the wing. But the suit is never totally empty because of the mesh inside this model. Of course I am pretty new on the dry suit but still I would have to actively swim down with such an amount (tried it in the pool lessons last december). But given how much weight I haul around with lead pouches alone, I envy you
Hello Titus Bellwald. Two of the biggest mistakes divers, both new and experience make are, they compare thier personal weight requirements and thier personal SAC rates to others. We all have different requirements. Experience plays a big role as well. The more you dive, and in your case the more you dive with a Drysuit, the more weight you will eventually shed. Over time, as your undergarments begin to lose thier elasticity, the buoyancy charactoristics will change as well. In regards to colder water, it is more dense, thus it does take more weight to overcome. So don't envy me, simply go dive and grow as a diver.
on the surface, the aluminium cylinders are actually heavier than steel ones. The in-water specifics when empty is the opposite. Something to consider when balancing your rig.
I can tell just from this video that you are miles ahead of my PADI drysuit instructor. After my daughter's PADI openwater instruction and my drysuit class, I will never go back to PADI. Thanks for this Video.
An excellent video and skills. (Also great you have an older drysuit to show us in the pool and chrlorine!). Thanks again and always learning. Been diving dry for just over a year now and love it... once I got the weight down. Was using way too much at first!
Hello Joshua Dircks, glad you liked the video. We have a joke that we tell most of our new students. "Once you go dry you never go back." Truth is, around mid August, we start praying for cold weather, so that we can get back in our Drysuits, and then around late February, we start praying for warm weather to so that we can get back in our Wetsuits. The sad part though, since we are a commercial diving company as well, we have to wear Drysuits year round during a lot of our salvaging jobs. These salvaging jobs usually put a lot of wear and tear on our Drysuits. So we usually have no shortage in training aids laying around (ie, Drysuits for pool use).
Muy buen video yo buceco por años en seco y evito que evacuar aire de esa forma a no ser una emegencia si salgo mojado no le veo el sentido de usar traje seco Muy importante difindir conocimientos gracias por compartir
Great video. You said you have a video for a horizontal ascent. Would you please link to it? I'm sure it's right in front of me, but I'm not seeing it. Keep up the great content.
I have done it flooded 1 on a s&r dive in January in ne Ohio. By the time I was out I had hypothermia glad the first responders were there. By bad was not calling it as soon as it happened I Finnish hooking up a truck first.
Hello DIVERS DOWN, thank you for sharing your story with us. As professionals, sometimes we just have to work through situations, as you did by completing the job.
Excellent video, very informative. As a newly certified SSI open water diver I have a couple questions. How much weight does a typical 7mm wetsuit need to be neutral at the surface, size XL or 2XL? How much weight does the average middle aged American male (i.e. 5'9", 200lb, non-gym rat, sedentary desk job) need to make his body neutral? Just to be clear I'm not asking for anyone to predict my weighting for proper buoyancy! I'm looking for ballpark figures to have a better understanding of how this works for others.
Hello Sa Dagat. Each suit based off manufacture and based off the material used to make the suit (type of neoprene) will require a different amount. A good starting point is 2 pounds per millimeter of thickness. Now with this being said, we have a video that will help you out on calculating your weighting needs. th-cam.com/video/uYeuBJkWxQ4/w-d-xo.html Based off your size and height, I went ahead and calculated it for you. Use this as a good starting point. (Also keep in mind I based this off Saltwater needs) Start with around 6 pounds and slowly add 2 pounds until you get the right amount. I would guesstimate 10-14 pounds would be a general ballpark number for you. This is doing the math for both the suit and you, and splitting the difference. Hope this helps.
Dunno about typical, but an XL Bare Reactive 7mm has a buoyancy of 16 lbs. How do I know this? I put it in a mesh bag (being careful to eliminate any air as I went) with enough rocks/lead to sink it in a hot tub. With a luggage scale, I measured the bundle at 3 lbs. I took out the suit and then measured 19 lbs (same rocks/lead). The difference, of course, is the surface suit buoyancy. I also found a rock that caused me to barely sink at the end of a normal exhale wearing just a swimsuit. The luggage scale measured it (and therefore my personal buoyancy) at 1/2 lb. No hot tub? Use a trash can or neighborhood pool. A pillowcase is a good stand-in for a mesh bag.
Hello Paul Billings, we have used a very similar method in the past to rudimentary calculate the buoyancy of a suit, with decent accuracy. Thank you for sharing for all.
I think it's sensible to split the control of bouyancy into two methods when diving dry, and those methods are to deal with different changes in lift: As a dry suit generally is to keep you dry, and NOT to keep you warm directly (although neopene drysuits will do that), the air in your suit is used to keep a constant volume, ie to allow your underlayers to hold a layer of warm air against your skin. Hence as you descend, you need to add air to your drysuit to maintain the VOLUME, as the pressure in your suit increases to match that of the ambient water at your current depth. This is completely unavoidable and necessary. Yes, you need to avoid uncomfortable suit squeeze as well, but in cold water, which is why you are in a drysuit, you'll be cold well before you get squeezed to much. Now, for everything else being equal, if the internal air volume in your suit stays constant, then your buoyancy stays constant. If you add the precise amount of air, you WILL stay neutrally buoyant! BUT, there are two other mechanisms for a change in buoyancy, namely, the air being lost from your breathing gas cylinder, and small differences in equipment or perhaps accessories you might be carrying etc. These changes are,imo, what you use the BCD for, and using the BCD to account for these changes means the volume of air you need in your drysuit does NOT change during a dive, so you can keep that volume to that required to keep you warm, which is the primary point of a drysuit. At the start of a dive, your breath gas cylinder will be nearly full, and at its heaviest, so you'll need to start with some air in the BCD, but as you use those few Kg of breathing gas up during the dive, you will have to progressively let air out of your BCD to maintain trim. This change occurs at all depths of course, as you are constantly getting more buoyant as your breath down your cylinder(s) As dive profiles tend to have fast(er) descents than ascents, it makes sense to use the drysuit during a descent, ie add air to the suit to hold yourself neutrally buoyant, which also keeps your suits air volume and insulation where it needs to be, and to not worry about the bcd. Use the bcd to leave the surface (deflate once you are happy with your suits air volume), to stay at the surface at the end of the dive (inflate) and at (long) intervals during the dive when at constant depth to compensate for the loss of breathing gas mass. This methods works for me, and seems pretty intuitive, because you use the two devices (suit and bcd) at different times in the dive :-)
Hello Max Torque, first and foremost, thank you for the very in depth comment. Probably, one of the best explanations, at least from this Instructor's point of view, on Drysuit and BCD usage (and effect), during a dive. And you also bring up some great points as well, about the weight differential as a diver uses up the air in the cylinder, and the added weight that comes with certain accessories. I would like to clarify a few things for the viewers though. Compensation for the loss of air (or more accurately stated, the usage of air through out a dive) can be calculated into a divers weighting needs, by doing proper weight checks and calculations, as we show in our weight calculation video here th-cam.com/video/uYeuBJkWxQ4/w-d-xo.html. In short, do all weight checks with cylinders at pressure ratings that would be used during safety stops, instead of using them at full pressure. Now in regards to additional weight from added accessories. This too can be calculated into the overall formula of a divers weight ratio by simply weighing said items and adding them to the divers actual weight for calculation (which for most accessories will be negligible). By doing so, this eliminates any ballast issues, as these objects are typically not effected by Boyle's Law, thus, do not have to be compensated for at depth. The key that we want all divers to take away from this is, there is never a need to ever overweight themselves. Even in Drysuits, where thicker undergarments are being used. Proper training, and breathing techniques are key to perfecting ones buoyancy, even during an emergency. A quick note, the video linked above is only used as a starting point to calculate weighting needs, and does not address the difference in suit material or types of suits. We encourage all divers to perform weight test (as taught in their open water programs) in a confined water environment prior to any open water dives, especially if they are using new equipment. In this case a Drysuit. PS, both you and I have the same philosophy on how to use a Drysuit and BCD for buoyancy control.
I love your videos ,man! Probably the best educational videos out there, I'm dead serious! I'm a PSD from Europe and I've found that americans are the best professionals when it comes to public safety diving.Can you recommend me a book or manual about public safety diving? Take care!
Hello Uncle George, glad you like our videos. By far, one of my favorite books on Public Safety Diving is this one here. catalog.argos.net/ECscripts/ECware.exe/dcp?id=003&sku=1294&type=A1QS11&lc=EN
Hello @ciaravino20757, balanced does mean correctly weighted. In short, no matter your depth, you should never have more weight than what you can physically swim up.
Buenas Me encantan sus vídeos, gracias, buen trabajo Tengo una consulta Con traje seco de neopreno sería igual o debería tener alguna precaución Gracias un saludo
Hola Maco. Seguiría siendo lo mismo con un traje seco de neopreno. También habría un beneficio adicional. Si el traje seco de neopreno se ajustara a la medida del buceador, volvería a ser un traje de neopreno estándar, que debería conservar la capacidad térmica del traje. Esto ayudaría a mantener al buceador caliente durante su ascenso, al menos más caliente que un traje seco con caparazón. Hello Maco. It would still be the same with a Neoprene Drysuit. There would be an added benefit as well. If the Neoprene Drysuit was custom fitted for the diver, it would resort back to being a standard wetsuit, which should retain the thermal capacity of the suit. This would help keep the diver warm during his ascent, at least warmer than a shell based drysuit.
Hello Omar Segura. The harness featured in this video, is the Heavy Lite Harness from the Mares XR Line. It’s threaded to the Mares XR Soft Plate and attached to the 10/22 Bladder.
A question here from a non diver looking to use a dry suit instead of waders for cleaning of drainage channels (and perhaps a little river swimming) You seemed to use your additional buoyancy device mostly to maintain neutral buoyancy. In the event of water ingress without an air tank etc a drysuit would remain neutral even when full of water? Was it the weight of the gear that made you negativity buoyant? Many thanks
Hello George Smith, when wearing a Drysuit, the weights used to compensate for the buoyancy of the undergarments, and for the buoyancy of the air added to the suit to prevent suit squeeze. The cylinder will add additional weight as well, which our Buoyancy Compensators will help manipulate as well. Hopefully this answers your questions.
Hi, I am a Korean scuba diving instructor (SSI IC-34493) and I would like to uses some parts of your video for Korean diver - May I ??? I wa a PADI CD-84832 during 1999-2004 and crossed over to SSI hense. I worked as an ITD during 2009 and as a training director for SSI Korea during 2012-2018, when I retired from a fulll time diving educator - I still dive actively and teaching occasional and will be 70 in coming Jne. I have a couple of remarks on your ESA skill.(absolutely no intention to irritate you) First, your signal for ESA - fingers swimming and then Ascend - I remember and maybe more used to this signal . However, in ITD Update German guyed suggested (generally and officially accepted by all) to use ESA signal of 1) OOG 2) Ascend - (no finger swim) I think it make sense because we have to swim to ascend anyway. Other comment is on your ESA skill - Left hand on power inflator and Right hand straight up above your head - this is PADI's CESA skill. SSI's skill show the same for left hand but righ had should be on the weight belt - I also do not agree with this SSI skill - I buy PADI's CESA skill However, that is what SSI tell us - Hope my comment does not bother you - Happy diving !!!!
Hello young cheon kang, you are more than welcome to use this video to help train your students. Just like you, I too was a PADI Instructor. In regards to the the specifics of the skills, this video was not to show how a skill is to be performed, but to simply show an ascent could be made during a catastrophic failure of a drysuit.
Just curious, if you have a failure, meaning say a leak then water gets in and so you possibly maynot be able to inflate the suit because the air would escape out the same point? Thanks cool vid
Hello wh1plash-58, the only way you would not be able to inflate the suit, would be if the inflator valve or hose malfunctioned. This is not to say that the suit would not be able to hold the air if it has a leak. This is another reason you should still wear a BCD while diving.
Interesting video. Though I have to ask, in what circumstances do you have a “catastrophic drysuit failure”? If a seal goes, that happens donning and doffing, so before you get in the water. Any small leak should be resolved or the dive aborted before it becomes anything like a major issue. Zips again don’t just fail underwater, if anything happens it’s again when donning or doffing. A rip maybe? Again, unless you’re well away from the surface, you should be out of the water before it becomes a full suit flood unless you’ve taken a leg off or something, and you’d have to be doing something majorly stupid to do anything like that. Or your suit is made of a bin liner 🤷🏻♂️ I just don’t see how this is relevant to 98% of divers out there that ain’t diving 10km into the side of a mountain in France.
Hello UKDiver, in our experience, drysuit failures happen quite often. This week alone, our salvage team here on the lake has had multiple failures. This is why we teach our students during their drysuit course how to deal with a flooded scenario. I think some of the confusion is the wording of "catastrophic drysuit failure." To us, anytime a suit fails to be dry, its considered a catastrophic failure. Under pressure, the smallest hole can fill the suit quickly. Depending on how hard the repair is to complete, a diver could consider the smallest hole a catastrophic failure. One of the most common failures we see in our area, are neck and wrist seal failures. With a neck seal failure, it only takes a matter of a few seconds and the entire suit is flooded.
A typical dry suit zipper, which are very expensive in the UK, around £100/$120 plus fitting start shredding fibres very quickly. I believe that they are very poor quality and rarely last more than 3-4 years. Apart from seals, this is where the major weakness is most likely.
If i want to start a winter watersports rental and course business, should i get drysuits and allow the people to just wear their normal clothing under the drysuit, or should i get wetsuits or should i get undergarments for wetsuits
Hello WeiseGuy91, there are several ways this can be done. On the BCD that I'm wearing on this video, there is a dump valve on the lower right side of the BCD, in the kidney area. I can also vent it through the inflator hose as well. Most BCD's will have several options for a diver to vent air.
Hello @leeow3n, that is an excellent question. During a malfunction with the inflator hose, your suit would still have air in it, which is the air you added during your descent. You would simply need to begin your ascent slowly, and the suit could still be vented as normal. Of course you would abort the dive until you replaced you inflator hose.
I've heard people suggest that a total drysuit flood will pin you to the bottom. As if the water in the suit somehow weighs more than the water around you... Thanks for this. You should start a "scuba myth busters" series.
Hello K B, we here the same myth all the time. We have considered starting in 2022, doing a video a month testing underwater myths that Instructors (myself included) tell their students.
I think it's a good idea. You could also test different theories about gear. DIR dogma states that a 7mm wetsuit can not be part of a balanced rig at deeper depths. (100ish feet) UTD claims the suit compresses so much that, given a complete wing failure, even a strong swimmer could not swim their rig to the surface, even properly weighted. I'd love to see that tested.
@@LakeHickoryScuba I'll try to find the exact claim made by UTD and send it to you via FB if you're interested. If that claim is true diving a 7mm at 100' could be a big saftey issue.
Hello :Michael Muller, you are correct. I was properly weighted for freshwater. In salt water, with that particular suit and undergarment, I wear 15 pounds.
Important to note that the buoyancy loss in salt water due to a suit flood would be very similar to that in fresh water (~8 lbs for these undergarments). Still easily compensated by the wing in this case.
Thicker layers will obviously lose more buoyancy, possibly more than the wing can fully compensate. (While my thin layers would lose about 8 lbs, my thickest undergarments would lose 28 lb.) In that case, one could still easily surface with a 22 lb wing, but a slightly larger wing or ditchable weight is advisable for a flat/neutral ascent.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us @pbillings808. We agree, until a diver is completely comfortable with a balanced rig, one should continue to use detachable weight.
Hello Brian, my name is Olli.... thank you for your videos, I like them a lot .... I have a question, I try to keep it short. I control my buoyancy only with the suit, this means in the moment of the catastrophic failure I will have more air in my suit than you, because you just wear the certain amount of air to avoid the squeeze. So if in your suit come in 3 liters of water in mine probably come 6..... just numbers to stress my point. :-)... I can imagine that it would not affect my buoyancy negatively if I have 3 or 6 liter of water in my suit because it is "water in water" but probably I will get a lot more "sluggish" (hope it is the right term...) Here is my question: Would it be a good response then in the moment that I notice the catastrophic failure to release as much air as possible out of my suit so it will be filled up with less water? I hope I could make me understood, cheers xxx
Hello Oliver Moch, there are two ways to look at it. First, you could remove all the air if you needed to, but this would flood the suit immediately. Even though it wouldn't really effect your buoyancy, as you would still have a BCD to control it with, it could cause a shock to your body from the cold water rushing in. On the other hand, if you were in a neoprene drysuit, you could flood it and let it resort back to being a wetsuit. This is one of the reasons we enjoy using neoprene drysuits. They have the added benefit of still offering some thermal protection during a catastrophic failure. Either way, remaining calm will be the best thing for you. And you are correct, water in water has no effect on your buoyancy. Hope this answers your questions. For the record, in your situation, I would not flood the suit (unless it was a neoprene drysuit), as depending on where the leak was at, you could still retain some air for thermal protection as well.
Hello Morgan Ames, to be completely honest, I rarely look at my pressure gauge when I'm teaching a course in the pool. So I can't answer your question in regards to this video. I simply do not remember. However, I can provide you the Buoyancy ratings for this specific cylinder. Faber list the negative buoyancy of this specific cylinder when full at -8 pounds, and the empty weight is -1.74 pounds. So if we assumed the cylinder was half full, based off a 3 hour pool session with my student, the you could say there was still around 4 pounds of air left in the cylinder. Hope this helps.
Not a dry suit diver, but I think I understand the physics of what you are saying - all things equal, the water, whether inside or outside the suit, has no effect on buoyancy. However, all things are not equal, in the event of a catastrophic failure if you are using your suit for buoyancy control, the air leaving your suit will negatively effect your buoyancy. If you had not been doing this in a pool but at depth with nothing to stop your decent you could have big trouble real fast, no? Seems teaching divers not to fear this or "that everything will be fine" is a dangerous approach.
Hello skycam321, Great question. When it comes to drysuits, the physics will always be the same, whether we are dealing with water or air. If the suit is flooded, then the equalization of the suit at depth is immediately equalized out, thus when a diver is properly weighted, swimming up will never be an issue, even though the immediate loss of air from the suit (the air used eliminate squeeze) has escaped. If the loss of air during a suit failure causes an uncontrolled descent, then the diver was overweighed from the get go. This means they had to overweight to compensate for the added air for warmth. This can be fixed by wearing the appropriate undergarments. In this case, we showed that properly weighted divers could still manipulate their buoyancy with either their drysuit or their BCD. Only at the surface would a major weight differential would be noticeable. Now if we consider the total catastrophic failure of both the suit and the BCD, then a diver could still swim to the surface if he or she was properly weighted (the theory of a balanced rig, which has been used and taught since the beginning of scuba education). The take away we hope our viewers get from this demonstration is, proper weighting is key. Now as far as the elephant in the room, immediate temperature change would and could cause a diver to have issues during a drysuit failure, primarily hypothermia. There are several things a diver could do to remain calm in this situation. In the event the diver was wearing a neoprene drysuit, then the insulated factor of it resorting back to a standard wetsuit would help retain some of the divers heat, preventing blood shunting from occurring. Second, proper training, and being prepared for such a situation, as we train all of our drysuit students on how to deal with failures such as this (as stated in the video), will help them remain calm as well. Hope this clears up the confusion.
There's always some air in a drysuit since the air in the tires of the underlayers is what insulates you. That means a flooded suit will make you a few kgs negatively buoyant. The depth doesn't make a difference, since you increase the volume of air by adding more when the gas compresses due to pressure. The resulting volume is the same, otherwise you wouldn't be neutral. Buoyancy depends on water volume displaced so, no matter at which depth your suit floods, you'll lose the same volume of air, making you the same amount negative. In other words, your assumption is wrong. Assuming your weighted correctly, your BCD can compensate a few kgs of additional negative buoyancy without issues. And even if it somehow couldn't, you could put as much gas in it as you can and then use your DSMB for the rest (or your fins). The risk is when you're severely overweighted and your BCD is already at its limit. Such a diver shouldn't be in the water IMHO. The main risk of a drysuit flood is the cold. Diving in cold water and losing your insulation is horrible, especially if you have to do deco stops.
I found this very educational, but I think it fails to address the real world hazard that a flooded drysuit presents. Why are you diving dry? Because it's cold, of course. So while this exercise in the pool is interesting and I'm sure technically correct in isolation, the real question is whether it is feasible to get to the surface safely in a flooded drysuit in water cold enough to warrant a dry dive. Please don't take this as a critique of your teaching, which I think is great, I just think you are answering a question that is much more readily addressed than the real question.
Hello J S, thank you for adding to the topic. You would be correct, if this occurs, a divers primary goal would be to ascend safely back to the surface and to abort the dive. Another viewer also stated that the temperature differential could potentially cause issues with hypothermia, which is 100 percent correct. This too can be addressed with proper training, and preparation before a dive. Wearing proper undergarments, that provide adequate warmth without the need for an excessive amount of weight will prevent the diver from being overly weighted, thus would assist them in being able to swim back to the surface. Another great option and one that is overlooked by many divers is, using a custom fitted pre-crushed neoprene drysuit. One of the biggest benefits with these suits are, a proper fitted neoprene drysuit will still add a sufficient amount of thermal protection (as it resorts back to being a standard wetsuit during a failure) if a catastrophic failure occurs. The key to dealing with any problem while underwater is to STOP, BREATHE, THINK, BREATHE, ACT, BREATHE.
Hello @snorttroll4379, that could be an option. In our Dry Suit series, we show you multiple options for undergarments. th-cam.com/video/QITAMlnC7RE/w-d-xo.html
You won't notice a bouyancy change with a flooded drysuit. When you try climbing up the boat ladder or stand up while exiting the water at a beach, you will never make it.
This video is odd...it ignores the fact that you still have a catastrophic failure to begin with (a rip, tear, seam blowout, etc). So zipping the suit back up and filling it with air doesn't work. This video is really only for people who forgot to fully zip up their suit.
The suit doesn't make you negative because it's filled with water. Water is neutral in water. You are negative because you let air out of the suit. If you rely on the suit as a backup BCD you will be fine but you can turn away from the failure and retain air in the suit.
You make a great point Lars Dennert, the air escaping the suit is what made me negative at the beginning. Thanks for clarifying that for all.
This is brilliant. I always had a big worry in the back of my mind what might happen if my drysuit failed. Not so much of a worry with my crushed neoprene ( it would just turn into a wetsuit) but with the trilaminate I had this fear I would sink to the bottom of the sea.
I had images of myself trying to use my dive knife (don’t think it would work) to cut myself out of the drysuit. So now if I did get a catastrophic failure I’ll just calmly ascend. Great demo , thanks heaps
Hello Sarah a, glad you liked the video. Hopefully, it will help others curb their fears of diving a drysuit as well.
Never taught this during my dry suit cert training. Always freaked me out when diving this way. Great video. Thanks so much!
Glad you liked the video @6CylSuccessVideos.
When I started dry suit, I had a zipper fail with my Bare trilam (the zipper wasn't fully seated.) This was a shore night dive off of Tacoma Washington. Upon entry, I felt that 'trickle of cold' feeling, that should have been my first warning indicator that the suit wasn't fully dry, but I was new to dry suits and didn't understand this.
I continued the dive, by finning out to our drop point. I remember that my Scubapro Hydros BCD was fully inflated, but I was kicking to keep my head out of the water. I dropped with my group, like a rock! I tried to slow my descent by adding air to the suit, which immediately burped out of the neck seal (no room in the suit for air!)
I switched to my BCD, inflating it, which slowed and eventually stopped my descent, but I still hit the bottom. I must have been pretty numb from the cold, but I don't remember being uncomfortable in the 50F water.
I finished the dive, but as I started walking out of the water, I realized I resembled the Michelin Man! Our water entry/exit point had concrete bleacher-like steps. I couldn't get my suit off due to the water weight, so I ended up laying upside down on the steps, then unzipped the cross-chest zipper.
This is why we wear a BCD with a dry suit! without the BCD I would have been in some serious trouble. One thing we discuss is that we can use our DSMB's for additional emergency lift, should the suit fail, and the BCD doesn't have enough buoyancy.
Hello Bryan Dees. You are correct, this is the reason we wear a BCD, which of course is used for our buoyancy control. We teach a diver survival course here, and one of the skills we teach is how to use an SMB for buoyancy control in the worst case scenario.
Wow. IMHO, This is the best scuba-related video on TH-cam - bar none. It's simply chock full o' very useful information and perfectly executed demonstrations and videography. The hints on how to minimize your lead and still have perfect buoyancy are great, and the eye-popping demos are more eloquent than words! Keep up the great work!
Glad you liked the video @michaelross8252.
Thank you for another excellent video demonstrating proper scuba skills and how to deal with catastrophic failures. The knowledge and experience you share make us all better divers.
Thanks for the video. I am doing a dry suit course in 3 weeks here in the UK and this has gave me some great tips and info👌✌️
Glad you liked the video Liam Hennelly.
Great demo, thanks for making this video and then talking about the amount of weight you are using. Well done.
Glad you liked the video David Moravek.
Great video and nice work taking one for the team. 😃 Funny how perceptions can vary in a persons mind until they are exposed to new concepts and understandings. No one thinks twice diving a wetsuit about being wet to the core, of course most wetsuits are inherently much more buoyant by design than a drysuit. This just demonstrate the benefit of seeking out a skilled certified dive instructor and training program. 👍 Cheers, #SeattleRingHunter
This is very true Seattle Ring Hunter. Once the suit is flooded, its no different than diving a wetsuit that is flood, just slightly colder.
Excellent video !!
Thank you user-pl9kx5kq5c, glad you liked the video.
I always said that a dive should not be ended when the dry suit fails, but diving books say otherwise. You and I are right
Hello @Abosaadssg69, I would suggest following what the book says. No one really wants to swim around in a totally flooded Drysuit. I would 100% of the time abort my dive if I had a catastrophic failure as I demonstrated in this video.
Excellent video. Never play down the importance of a balanced rig - something I’ve come to take much more seriously diving twins and having no ‘ditch-able’ weights.
Hello Adam Reid, glad you liked the video. We encourage all divers to dive with balanced rig, with or without ditch-able weights. One of the biggest issues the Scuba Industry has suffered from is Instructors that will overweight their students instead of spending time with them to get their weight requirements just right.
Excellent demo! Balanced rig is such a good concept. Of course, if you're gonna flood a suit, a swimming pool at 80F is the best place. When you need a dry suit, it's because it's cold and that has 2 effects. Number one, if it floods you are suddenly going to get cold, really cold. And that can mean serious hypothermia. In the 40 degree F water I dive in you may have only a few minutes of useful consciousness so you are going to need to be out of the water as soon as is safe. Number two, because it's cold you will likely have a fair amount of air in the suit, not just to relieve the squeeze but to keep warm. So you will need a bit more lead than in this demo. But the balanced rig concept still works. With my twins I have to weight to be neutral at the end of the dive when they're nearly empty. That means at the start I'm carrying 9 lbs more than I need to stay neutral. But even so, I've proved I can still swim up from 100ft without the aid of the BC or suit, and in fact I'm still venting just as normal.
Glad you like the video Tim Gosling, and you make a great point. If this occurs in Open Water (cold water that is), hypothermia is the biggest risk to divers. This is why we stressed to go ahead and abort the dive.
@@LakeHickoryScuba Quite right! Hypothermia also degrades your situational awareness and decision making. So buddies become even more important.
That is Exactly, what I was wondering. When you see it completely flooded makes Sense. I thought the under garment would soak up so much water and make you act like the Titanic, So cool to see it live Very good.
Glad you liked the video Ben A, and found it educational.
Thank you ! Awesome video. new to the dry suit and full face. Started to do search and recovery .
Glad you liked the video searching4279.
Great demo. What you did not mention: flooded suit is heavy on land. Claiming ladders is way out harder so be prepared. When you take into account that dry suit diving normally means colder water claiming ladders with flooded suit is HARD. You have extra weight AND at least dome level on coldness. Belive me I know by experience...
You are correct N N. With you suit full of water, it definitely makes moving on land more difficult.
I did the perfect buoyancy SSI, the very next day when I got my OWD and even then it helps me a lot, but to be honest, I would recommend to do it again if you get experiance, because I believe even then you would learn much.
If you got the perfect buoyancy, you can play a little bit with your class or dive buddies, like keep exactly at 3.3 m etc.
😊
Hello Ben Heckendorn, we agree. A lot of divers will over look the value that the Perfect Buoyancy Course offers. Its a great course that allows you to fine tune your buoyancy each time you add a new essential piece of equipment. Most training centers / SSI Instructors will allow you to gain confined water time and will even mentor you with your new equipment. This is usually done free of charge (excluding pool fees). Here at Lake Hickory Scuba, we allow divers to use the pool anytime they need for just the entry fee. They can practice any skill they need to work on, including buoyancy and trim, without needing to pay for a full course. This helps if they already have the Perfect Buoyancy Course. No need to pay twice for it.
Great Video, I was wondering what would happen during a dry suit failure, and you just made a better dry suit diver.
Hello Mike McClanahan, glad you liked the video and found it helpful.
Nice video! If your dry suit failure is due to a failed shoulder zipper, it is unlikely that you will be able to attain neutral buoyancy by putting more air in to the dry suit. The air will merely escape via the failed zipper. In which case you may be relying on BCD assisted buoyancy and/or removal of weights. This is where a weight harness is useful, as you could release one weight pocket and perhaps still have reasonable buoyancy control. Back in August 1983, in writing up a "Dry Suit Endorsement" for the Scottish Sub Aqua Club, I performed a failed shoulder zipper exercise in the sea at 15 metres depth with no BCD. (At that time a BCD was not compulsory with a Dry suit.) Having made sure that the suit was fully flooded, I removed my weight belt, gave it to my "safety diver" and could have continued the dive, neutrally buoyant. The amusing aspect was that I had to assist my "safety diver" out of the water, as he had my weight belt as well as his own weight belt. [ SAFETY NOTE: there were 4 divers in the water; 2 divers doing various dry suit exercises and 2 safety divers all on a gently sloping seabed, so that we could walk out if necessary]
Hello Keith Waugh, thank you for sharing your experience with us. We are currently producing a video on weight harnesses this week. Should be up by the end of the month. Glad to hear that you were able to help your safety diver out of the water.
Thanks a lot. Beats me how you get sinking from the surface with this little weight. I dive in a Waterproof DX1 with 10mm hood (cold lakes here...), 12L steel tank on an aluminum plate and still need about 10 kg at the moment. In the beginning of the dive that's plenty, but at the end I keep having difficutlies to keep myself from popping up on the last maybe 3 meters even with no air in the wing. But the suit is never totally empty because of the mesh inside this model. Of course I am pretty new on the dry suit but still I would have to actively swim down with such an amount (tried it in the pool lessons last december). But given how much weight I haul around with lead pouches alone, I envy you
Hello Titus Bellwald. Two of the biggest mistakes divers, both new and experience make are, they compare thier personal weight requirements and thier personal SAC rates to others. We all have different requirements. Experience plays a big role as well. The more you dive, and in your case the more you dive with a Drysuit, the more weight you will eventually shed. Over time, as your undergarments begin to lose thier elasticity, the buoyancy charactoristics will change as well. In regards to colder water, it is more dense, thus it does take more weight to overcome. So don't envy me, simply go dive and grow as a diver.
Great demonstration Bryan. 👍 👍
Thank you Scubicon, glad you liked it.
on the surface, the aluminium cylinders are actually heavier than steel ones. The in-water specifics when empty is the opposite. Something to consider when balancing your rig.
I can tell just from this video that you are miles ahead of my PADI drysuit instructor. After my daughter's PADI openwater instruction and my drysuit class, I will never go back to PADI. Thanks for this Video.
Hello justin smith, glad you liked the video. You guys are more than welcome to come train with any of our Instructors. Let us know how we can help.
An excellent video and skills. (Also great you have an older drysuit to show us in the pool and chrlorine!). Thanks again and always learning.
Been diving dry for just over a year now and love it... once I got the weight down. Was using way too much at first!
Hello Joshua Dircks, glad you liked the video. We have a joke that we tell most of our new students. "Once you go dry you never go back." Truth is, around mid August, we start praying for cold weather, so that we can get back in our Drysuits, and then around late February, we start praying for warm weather to so that we can get back in our Wetsuits. The sad part though, since we are a commercial diving company as well, we have to wear Drysuits year round during a lot of our salvaging jobs. These salvaging jobs usually put a lot of wear and tear on our Drysuits. So we usually have no shortage in training aids laying around (ie, Drysuits for pool use).
Muy buen video yo buceco por años en seco y evito que evacuar aire de esa forma a no ser una emegencia si salgo mojado no le veo el sentido de usar traje seco
Muy importante difindir conocimientos gracias por compartir
Hello Julio Lluis, we agree, this is for emergency purposes only.
Hola Julio Lluis, estamos de acuerdo, esto es solo para casos de emergencia.
Great video. You said you have a video for a horizontal ascent. Would you please link to it? I'm sure it's right in front of me, but I'm not seeing it. Keep up the great content.
Hello Casey Klaus, glad you liked the video. Here is the link to the horizontal ascent. th-cam.com/video/r0MPhC7nuBA/w-d-xo.html
Brian, as always a great video. I have been teaching Drysuit diving since 1990. Well thought out great information.
Thanks Ray Brienza, glad you liked the video.
Very good! Thank you for your effort.
Glad you liked the video @devonwood4681.
“Little bit of water”,
My a$$. Great video. Fantastic information. Thanks. 😎🤙
Glad you liked the video Rick B.
Great performance - good to know😎 Thank You!
Glad you liked the video @hannesplanotscher5657.
I have done it flooded 1 on a s&r dive in January in ne Ohio. By the time I was out I had hypothermia glad the first responders were there. By bad was not calling it as soon as it happened I Finnish hooking up a truck first.
Hello DIVERS DOWN, thank you for sharing your story with us. As professionals, sometimes we just have to work through situations, as you did by completing the job.
Excellent video, very informative.
As a newly certified SSI open water diver I have a couple questions.
How much weight does a typical 7mm wetsuit need to be neutral at the surface, size XL or 2XL?
How much weight does the average middle aged American male (i.e. 5'9", 200lb, non-gym rat, sedentary desk job) need to make his body neutral?
Just to be clear I'm not asking for anyone to predict my weighting for proper buoyancy! I'm looking for ballpark figures to have a better understanding of how this works for others.
Hello Sa Dagat. Each suit based off manufacture and based off the material used to make the suit (type of neoprene) will require a different amount. A good starting point is 2 pounds per millimeter of thickness. Now with this being said, we have a video that will help you out on calculating your weighting needs. th-cam.com/video/uYeuBJkWxQ4/w-d-xo.html Based off your size and height, I went ahead and calculated it for you. Use this as a good starting point. (Also keep in mind I based this off Saltwater needs) Start with around 6 pounds and slowly add 2 pounds until you get the right amount. I would guesstimate 10-14 pounds would be a general ballpark number for you. This is doing the math for both the suit and you, and splitting the difference. Hope this helps.
Dunno about typical, but an XL Bare Reactive 7mm has a buoyancy of 16 lbs. How do I know this? I put it in a mesh bag (being careful to eliminate any air as I went) with enough rocks/lead to sink it in a hot tub. With a luggage scale, I measured the bundle at 3 lbs. I took out the suit and then measured 19 lbs (same rocks/lead). The difference, of course, is the surface suit buoyancy.
I also found a rock that caused me to barely sink at the end of a normal exhale wearing just a swimsuit. The luggage scale measured it (and therefore my personal buoyancy) at 1/2 lb.
No hot tub? Use a trash can or neighborhood pool. A pillowcase is a good stand-in for a mesh bag.
Hello Paul Billings, we have used a very similar method in the past to rudimentary calculate the buoyancy of a suit, with decent accuracy. Thank you for sharing for all.
A great video and above all very interesting topic. Really enjoyed well done
Thank you Michele luliano, glad you liked the video.
Great presentation!
Thank you Matt Clarke, glad you liked the video.
Awesome video. Thanks very much.
You are very welcome Scott Innes, glad you liked the video.
Wow, where is that video where you teach horizontal accent? It looked like you were back-finning but instead of backward, you were ascending. Nice!
Hello Jeremy USA, here is the video you are asking about. th-cam.com/video/r0MPhC7nuBA/w-d-xo.html
Great video - wish i could train my skills with you🤟
Hello Christian Zimmermann Witt, I would be happy to help you with your diving journey.
Great video.
Glad you liked the video @mitchimuus.
Thank you for this...
You are very welcome Miko Zulueta. Glad you liked the video.
I think it's sensible to split the control of bouyancy into two methods when diving dry, and those methods are to deal with different changes in lift:
As a dry suit generally is to keep you dry, and NOT to keep you warm directly (although neopene drysuits will do that), the air in your suit is used to keep a constant volume, ie to allow your underlayers to hold a layer of warm air against your skin. Hence as you descend, you need to add air to your drysuit to maintain the VOLUME, as the pressure in your suit increases to match that of the ambient water at your current depth. This is completely unavoidable and necessary. Yes, you need to avoid uncomfortable suit squeeze as well, but in cold water, which is why you are in a drysuit, you'll be cold well before you get squeezed to much. Now, for everything else being equal, if the internal air volume in your suit stays constant, then your buoyancy stays constant. If you add the precise amount of air, you WILL stay neutrally buoyant!
BUT, there are two other mechanisms for a change in buoyancy, namely, the air being lost from your breathing gas cylinder, and small differences in equipment or perhaps accessories you might be carrying etc. These changes are,imo, what you use the BCD for, and using the BCD to account for these changes means the volume of air you need in your drysuit does NOT change during a dive, so you can keep that volume to that required to keep you warm, which is the primary point of a drysuit. At the start of a dive, your breath gas cylinder will be nearly full, and at its heaviest, so you'll need to start with some air in the BCD, but as you use those few Kg of breathing gas up during the dive, you will have to progressively let air out of your BCD to maintain trim. This change occurs at all depths of course, as you are constantly getting more buoyant as your breath down your cylinder(s)
As dive profiles tend to have fast(er) descents than ascents, it makes sense to use the drysuit during a descent, ie add air to the suit to hold yourself neutrally buoyant, which also keeps your suits air volume and insulation where it needs to be, and to not worry about the bcd. Use the bcd to leave the surface (deflate once you are happy with your suits air volume), to stay at the surface at the end of the dive (inflate) and at (long) intervals during the dive when at constant depth to compensate for the loss of breathing gas mass.
This methods works for me, and seems pretty intuitive, because you use the two devices (suit and bcd) at different times in the dive :-)
Hello Max Torque, first and foremost, thank you for the very in depth comment. Probably, one of the best explanations, at least from this Instructor's point of view, on Drysuit and BCD usage (and effect), during a dive. And you also bring up some great points as well, about the weight differential as a diver uses up the air in the cylinder, and the added weight that comes with certain accessories. I would like to clarify a few things for the viewers though. Compensation for the loss of air (or more accurately stated, the usage of air through out a dive) can be calculated into a divers weighting needs, by doing proper weight checks and calculations, as we show in our weight calculation video here th-cam.com/video/uYeuBJkWxQ4/w-d-xo.html. In short, do all weight checks with cylinders at pressure ratings that would be used during safety stops, instead of using them at full pressure. Now in regards to additional weight from added accessories. This too can be calculated into the overall formula of a divers weight ratio by simply weighing said items and adding them to the divers actual weight for calculation (which for most accessories will be negligible). By doing so, this eliminates any ballast issues, as these objects are typically not effected by Boyle's Law, thus, do not have to be compensated for at depth. The key that we want all divers to take away from this is, there is never a need to ever overweight themselves. Even in Drysuits, where thicker undergarments are being used. Proper training, and breathing techniques are key to perfecting ones buoyancy, even during an emergency.
A quick note, the video linked above is only used as a starting point to calculate weighting needs, and does not address the difference in suit material or types of suits. We encourage all divers to perform weight test (as taught in their open water programs) in a confined water environment prior to any open water dives, especially if they are using new equipment. In this case a Drysuit.
PS, both you and I have the same philosophy on how to use a Drysuit and BCD for buoyancy control.
@@LakeHickoryScuba thanks for your kind words, and i cetainly agree with your weighting strategy! :-)
Great video and great information sir! Even I live in Florida dry suit class is on my bucket list. Keep up the good work.🤙🤙🤙🤙🤙🤿🤿🤿🤿🤿🦈🦈🦈🦈🦈
Thanks Boriken Nautical, glad you liked the video.
I love your videos ,man! Probably the best educational videos out there, I'm dead serious! I'm a PSD from Europe and I've found that americans are the best professionals when it comes to public safety diving.Can you recommend me a book or manual about public safety diving?
Take care!
Hello Uncle George, glad you like our videos. By far, one of my favorite books on Public Safety Diving is this one here. catalog.argos.net/ECscripts/ECware.exe/dcp?id=003&sku=1294&type=A1QS11&lc=EN
Great video
Glad you liked the video @rabjhuxley1989.
Amazing! I weigh 160 lbs and was told I needed 22 Lbs for my drysuit course (with a steel 80). By balanced, do you mean “ correctly weighted”?
Hello @ciaravino20757, balanced does mean correctly weighted. In short, no matter your depth, you should never have more weight than what you can physically swim up.
Buenas
Me encantan sus vídeos, gracias, buen trabajo
Tengo una consulta
Con traje seco de neopreno sería igual o debería tener alguna precaución
Gracias un saludo
Hola Maco. Seguiría siendo lo mismo con un traje seco de neopreno. También habría un beneficio adicional. Si el traje seco de neopreno se ajustara a la medida del buceador, volvería a ser un traje de neopreno estándar, que debería conservar la capacidad térmica del traje. Esto ayudaría a mantener al buceador caliente durante su ascenso, al menos más caliente que un traje seco con caparazón.
Hello Maco. It would still be the same with a Neoprene Drysuit. There would be an added benefit as well. If the Neoprene Drysuit was custom fitted for the diver, it would resort back to being a standard wetsuit, which should retain the thermal capacity of the suit. This would help keep the diver warm during his ascent, at least warmer than a shell based drysuit.
Thxs for sharing. 😁👌🚩
You're welcome Johnny Bottles, glad you liked the video.
Hello great video! You got a new subscriber 👌. One question, what model or configuration is that mares harness ? Thank you!
Hello Omar Segura. The harness featured in this video, is the Heavy Lite Harness from the Mares XR Line. It’s threaded to the Mares XR Soft Plate and attached to the 10/22 Bladder.
excellent video thanks
You're welcome Scotland Underwater, glad you liked the video.
A question here from a non diver looking to use a dry suit instead of waders for cleaning of drainage channels (and perhaps a little river swimming)
You seemed to use your additional buoyancy device mostly to maintain neutral buoyancy. In the event of water ingress without an air tank etc a drysuit would remain neutral even when full of water? Was it the weight of the gear that made you negativity buoyant?
Many thanks
Hello George Smith, when wearing a Drysuit, the weights used to compensate for the buoyancy of the undergarments, and for the buoyancy of the air added to the suit to prevent suit squeeze. The cylinder will add additional weight as well, which our Buoyancy Compensators will help manipulate as well. Hopefully this answers your questions.
Thank you so much so. 🇺🇲👌🏼
Glad you liked the video @rockyhernandez6507.
Hi, I am a Korean scuba diving instructor (SSI IC-34493) and I would like to uses some parts of your video for Korean diver - May I ???
I wa a PADI CD-84832 during 1999-2004 and crossed over to SSI hense.
I worked as an ITD during 2009 and as a training director for SSI Korea during 2012-2018, when I retired from a fulll time diving educator - I still dive actively and teaching occasional and will be 70 in coming Jne.
I have a couple of remarks on your ESA skill.(absolutely no intention to irritate you)
First, your signal for ESA - fingers swimming and then Ascend - I remember and maybe more used to this signal .
However, in ITD Update German guyed suggested (generally and officially accepted by all) to use
ESA signal of
1) OOG
2) Ascend - (no finger swim)
I think it make sense because we have to swim to ascend anyway.
Other comment is on your ESA skill -
Left hand on power inflator and Right hand straight up above your head - this is PADI's CESA skill.
SSI's skill show the same for left hand but righ had should be on the weight belt - I also do not agree with this SSI skill - I buy PADI's CESA skill
However, that is what SSI tell us -
Hope my comment does not bother you - Happy diving !!!!
Hello young cheon kang, you are more than welcome to use this video to help train your students. Just like you, I too was a PADI Instructor. In regards to the the specifics of the skills, this video was not to show how a skill is to be performed, but to simply show an ascent could be made during a catastrophic failure of a drysuit.
Just curious, if you have a failure, meaning say a leak then water gets in and so you possibly maynot be able to inflate the suit because the air would escape out the same point? Thanks cool vid
Hello wh1plash-58, the only way you would not be able to inflate the suit, would be if the inflator valve or hose malfunctioned. This is not to say that the suit would not be able to hold the air if it has a leak. This is another reason you should still wear a BCD while diving.
Interesting video. Though I have to ask, in what circumstances do you have a “catastrophic drysuit failure”? If a seal goes, that happens donning and doffing, so before you get in the water. Any small leak should be resolved or the dive aborted before it becomes anything like a major issue. Zips again don’t just fail underwater, if anything happens it’s again when donning or doffing. A rip maybe? Again, unless you’re well away from the surface, you should be out of the water before it becomes a full suit flood unless you’ve taken a leg off or something, and you’d have to be doing something majorly stupid to do anything like that. Or your suit is made of a bin liner 🤷🏻♂️ I just don’t see how this is relevant to 98% of divers out there that ain’t diving 10km into the side of a mountain in France.
I know of divers who have had this happen during dives, it can and has happened.
Hello UKDiver, in our experience, drysuit failures happen quite often. This week alone, our salvage team here on the lake has had multiple failures. This is why we teach our students during their drysuit course how to deal with a flooded scenario. I think some of the confusion is the wording of "catastrophic drysuit failure." To us, anytime a suit fails to be dry, its considered a catastrophic failure. Under pressure, the smallest hole can fill the suit quickly. Depending on how hard the repair is to complete, a diver could consider the smallest hole a catastrophic failure. One of the most common failures we see in our area, are neck and wrist seal failures. With a neck seal failure, it only takes a matter of a few seconds and the entire suit is flooded.
A typical dry suit zipper, which are very expensive in the UK, around £100/$120 plus fitting start shredding fibres very quickly. I believe that they are very poor quality and rarely last more than 3-4 years. Apart from seals, this is where the major weakness is most likely.
If i want to start a winter watersports rental and course business, should i get drysuits and allow the people to just wear their normal clothing under the drysuit, or should i get wetsuits or should i get undergarments for wetsuits
Hello @snorttroll4379, my suggestion would be to contact someone in the watersports rental business and see what the industry recommends.
I'd watch a video on drysuit trim for hrs and hrs.
Hello Kevin Gumfory, there are some great videos out there.
On a horizontal ascent, how are you venting your BC? Dump valves?
Hello WeiseGuy91, there are several ways this can be done. On the BCD that I'm wearing on this video, there is a dump valve on the lower right side of the BCD, in the kidney area. I can also vent it through the inflator hose as well. Most BCD's will have several options for a diver to vent air.
If your drysuit inflator hose malfunctioned at 60-100 feet would you be able to manage?
Hello @leeow3n, that is an excellent question. During a malfunction with the inflator hose, your suit would still have air in it, which is the air you added during your descent. You would simply need to begin your ascent slowly, and the suit could still be vented as normal. Of course you would abort the dive until you replaced you inflator hose.
I've heard people suggest that a total drysuit flood will pin you to the bottom. As if the water in the suit somehow weighs more than the water around you... Thanks for this. You should start a "scuba myth busters" series.
Hello K B, we here the same myth all the time. We have considered starting in 2022, doing a video a month testing underwater myths that Instructors (myself included) tell their students.
I think it's a good idea. You could also test different theories about gear. DIR dogma states that a 7mm wetsuit can not be part of a balanced rig at deeper depths. (100ish feet) UTD claims the suit compresses so much that, given a complete wing failure, even a strong swimmer could not swim their rig to the surface, even properly weighted.
I'd love to see that tested.
We can definitely test that theory as well. We have a local quarry here that would be perfect for that test.
@@LakeHickoryScuba I'll try to find the exact claim made by UTD and send it to you via FB if you're interested. If that claim is true diving a 7mm at 100' could be a big saftey issue.
Thank you K B, you can also email it to us at lakehickoryscuba@gmail.com.
But is that a freshwater dive? Which would account for your weighting.
Hello :Michael Muller, you are correct. I was properly weighted for freshwater. In salt water, with that particular suit and undergarment, I wear 15 pounds.
Important to note that the buoyancy loss in salt water due to a suit flood would be very similar to that in fresh water (~8 lbs for these undergarments). Still easily compensated by the wing in this case.
Thicker layers will obviously lose more buoyancy, possibly more than the wing can fully compensate. (While my thin layers would lose about 8 lbs, my thickest undergarments would lose 28 lb.) In that case, one could still easily surface with a 22 lb wing, but a slightly larger wing or ditchable weight is advisable for a flat/neutral ascent.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us @pbillings808. We agree, until a diver is completely comfortable with a balanced rig, one should continue to use detachable weight.
ty 4 info
Glad you liked the video 물탐험가 Coolsama WaterExplorer
Hello Brian, my name is Olli.... thank you for your videos, I like them a lot ....
I have a question, I try to keep it short.
I control my buoyancy only with the suit, this means in the moment of the catastrophic failure I will have more air in my suit than you, because you just wear the certain amount of air to avoid the squeeze.
So if in your suit come in 3 liters of water in mine probably come 6..... just numbers to stress my point. :-)...
I can imagine that it would not affect my buoyancy negatively if I have 3 or 6 liter of water in my suit because it is "water in water" but probably I will get a lot more "sluggish" (hope it is the right term...)
Here is my question:
Would it be a good response then in the moment that I notice the catastrophic failure to release as much air as possible out of my suit so it will be filled up with less water?
I hope I could make me understood, cheers xxx
Hello Oliver Moch, there are two ways to look at it. First, you could remove all the air if you needed to, but this would flood the suit immediately. Even though it wouldn't really effect your buoyancy, as you would still have a BCD to control it with, it could cause a shock to your body from the cold water rushing in. On the other hand, if you were in a neoprene drysuit, you could flood it and let it resort back to being a wetsuit. This is one of the reasons we enjoy using neoprene drysuits. They have the added benefit of still offering some thermal protection during a catastrophic failure. Either way, remaining calm will be the best thing for you. And you are correct, water in water has no effect on your buoyancy. Hope this answers your questions.
For the record, in your situation, I would not flood the suit (unless it was a neoprene drysuit), as depending on where the leak was at, you could still retain some air for thermal protection as well.
Bryan, how much gas remaining in your Steel-80 cylinder at the end-of-dive (when you performed the ascent since gas *does* have weight)?
Hello Morgan Ames, to be completely honest, I rarely look at my pressure gauge when I'm teaching a course in the pool. So I can't answer your question in regards to this video. I simply do not remember. However, I can provide you the Buoyancy ratings for this specific cylinder. Faber list the negative buoyancy of this specific cylinder when full at -8 pounds, and the empty weight is -1.74 pounds. So if we assumed the cylinder was half full, based off a 3 hour pool session with my student, the you could say there was still around 4 pounds of air left in the cylinder. Hope this helps.
Always dive a bc when diving dry. Add air to suit prevent squeeze. Flooded suit means dive is over.
Hello @americanazheck, we agree, if your suit fails, your dive is over.
I'd die slowly from hypothermia in the bottom of a silt filled cave. Love diving in the UK.
Hello Jim Ramsden, I've heard the water in the UK was pretty cold. Hopefully, one day I can get over there to dive.
Not a dry suit diver, but I think I understand the physics of what you are saying - all things equal, the water, whether inside or outside the suit, has no effect on buoyancy. However, all things are not equal, in the event of a catastrophic failure if you are using your suit for buoyancy control, the air leaving your suit will negatively effect your buoyancy. If you had not been doing this in a pool but at depth with nothing to stop your decent you could have big trouble real fast, no? Seems teaching divers not to fear this or "that everything will be fine" is a dangerous approach.
Hello skycam321, Great question. When it comes to drysuits, the physics will always be the same, whether we are dealing with water or air. If the suit is flooded, then the equalization of the suit at depth is immediately equalized out, thus when a diver is properly weighted, swimming up will never be an issue, even though the immediate loss of air from the suit (the air used eliminate squeeze) has escaped. If the loss of air during a suit failure causes an uncontrolled descent, then the diver was overweighed from the get go. This means they had to overweight to compensate for the added air for warmth. This can be fixed by wearing the appropriate undergarments. In this case, we showed that properly weighted divers could still manipulate their buoyancy with either their drysuit or their BCD. Only at the surface would a major weight differential would be noticeable. Now if we consider the total catastrophic failure of both the suit and the BCD, then a diver could still swim to the surface if he or she was properly weighted (the theory of a balanced rig, which has been used and taught since the beginning of scuba education). The take away we hope our viewers get from this demonstration is, proper weighting is key. Now as far as the elephant in the room, immediate temperature change would and could cause a diver to have issues during a drysuit failure, primarily hypothermia. There are several things a diver could do to remain calm in this situation. In the event the diver was wearing a neoprene drysuit, then the insulated factor of it resorting back to a standard wetsuit would help retain some of the divers heat, preventing blood shunting from occurring. Second, proper training, and being prepared for such a situation, as we train all of our drysuit students on how to deal with failures such as this (as stated in the video), will help them remain calm as well. Hope this clears up the confusion.
There's always some air in a drysuit since the air in the tires of the underlayers is what insulates you. That means a flooded suit will make you a few kgs negatively buoyant. The depth doesn't make a difference, since you increase the volume of air by adding more when the gas compresses due to pressure. The resulting volume is the same, otherwise you wouldn't be neutral. Buoyancy depends on water volume displaced so, no matter at which depth your suit floods, you'll lose the same volume of air, making you the same amount negative. In other words, your assumption is wrong.
Assuming your weighted correctly, your BCD can compensate a few kgs of additional negative buoyancy without issues. And even if it somehow couldn't, you could put as much gas in it as you can and then use your DSMB for the rest (or your fins). The risk is when you're severely overweighted and your BCD is already at its limit. Such a diver shouldn't be in the water IMHO.
The main risk of a drysuit flood is the cold. Diving in cold water and losing your insulation is horrible, especially if you have to do deco stops.
You are spot on Yggdrasil42.
I found this very educational, but I think it fails to address the real world hazard that a flooded drysuit presents. Why are you diving dry? Because it's cold, of course. So while this exercise in the pool is interesting and I'm sure technically correct in isolation, the real question is whether it is feasible to get to the surface safely in a flooded drysuit in water cold enough to warrant a dry dive. Please don't take this as a critique of your teaching, which I think is great, I just think you are answering a question that is much more readily addressed than the real question.
Hello J S, thank you for adding to the topic. You would be correct, if this occurs, a divers primary goal would be to ascend safely back to the surface and to abort the dive. Another viewer also stated that the temperature differential could potentially cause issues with hypothermia, which is 100 percent correct. This too can be addressed with proper training, and preparation before a dive. Wearing proper undergarments, that provide adequate warmth without the need for an excessive amount of weight will prevent the diver from being overly weighted, thus would assist them in being able to swim back to the surface. Another great option and one that is overlooked by many divers is, using a custom fitted pre-crushed neoprene drysuit. One of the biggest benefits with these suits are, a proper fitted neoprene drysuit will still add a sufficient amount of thermal protection (as it resorts back to being a standard wetsuit during a failure) if a catastrophic failure occurs. The key to dealing with any problem while underwater is to STOP, BREATHE, THINK, BREATHE, ACT, BREATHE.
What about cold water? Why not a wet suit under
Hello @snorttroll4379, that could be an option. In our Dry Suit series, we show you multiple options for undergarments. th-cam.com/video/QITAMlnC7RE/w-d-xo.html
Well water is what you’re diving in soooo nothing except maybe getting cold v
The good news Wes Short, water does not effect water.
You won't notice a bouyancy change with a flooded drysuit. When you try climbing up the boat ladder or stand up while exiting the water at a beach, you will never make it.
Hello billsixx, at 10:44, you can see that I personally had no difficulty at all standing up or exiting the water with a flooded drysuit.
This video is odd...it ignores the fact that you still have a catastrophic failure to begin with (a rip, tear, seam blowout, etc). So zipping the suit back up and filling it with air doesn't work. This video is really only for people who forgot to fully zip up their suit.
Hello Obliticus, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
@@LakeHickoryScuba lol typical bot reply.
Get to the point. Talk talk talk. This could be a 2 minute video if you speed it up
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us @snorttroll4379.
haha. @@LakeHickoryScuba
Fantastic video!
Glad you liked the video @daveb6345.
Great video. Thanks.
You’re welcome Andre Greber, glad you liked the video.