Can't wait for the "sidemount only when needed" roundtable. I've had a number of people tell me it's an overkill for open water and it's harder to do boat diving in sidemount, etc. I started sidemount earlier this year and love it!
Same I was so hyped that he wanted to talk about it haha I’m a new diver and sidemount really appeals to me. I was just thinking about why not always dive sidemount? I hope we will get the answer soon ;)
I've been diving SM for several years and have only done OW and wrecks. LOVE IT! Started in rec - More usable gas with 2 x SM tanks for two dives than 2 single tanks. - Trim is a lot easier - CAN make coming up the ladder easier (can take tanks off) and lower CG - I CAN SEE MY VALVES - True gas redundancy
Just do it. I dive both SM and BM doubles but I FAAAAAR prefer SM. Off a small boat, big boat, shore, everywhere. Exception might be if I get into mod3 CCR because you need the room for bailout. But up to 4 tanks SM just dives nicer.
I’m new to diving, but side mount just makes more sense in my mind, so I just bought a stealth 2.0 with apeks regs as my first bcd setup, I plan on diving nothing but side mount moving forward (once I finish the certification).
I like the comment of using you dry suit for trim as a weapon. I definitely use it for that purpose. I have ALWAYS struggled with trim in a wetsuit, and now that I can move the bubble around, I am nice and trim all of the time.
Finally I can put faces to their great podcasts, thank you! Really enjoy those 'tech talks'. Please consider discussing more of those controversial topics, there are plenty... deep(ish) air (130ft+), sidemount vs backmount (in OW), BOV vs DSV, mixed team diving (CCR + OC), deco procedures (ratio deco), mCCR vs eCCR... perfect channel to geek out, Cheers!
If I can share my humble opinion - I am from one of those “communities” who dive drysuit always (or almost always). Drysuit keeps you dry, not warm, so it really depends on what you put under it. I get cold very fast and feel comfortable to dive dry even in 28 degrees water. Adding another complexity to the dive such as drysuit management only makes us keep practicing and building up a bigger capacity, which is always welcomed. :) When I do a technical dive, I always choose drysuit even if the water is warm, just because of redundancy. Not only for you, but also for your buddy in case something happens.
You three are all right. I have been diving in drysuits since 1984. My first was a rubber Viking an I dive in drysuits with all materials and I have been working as an instructor since 1981. On most dives I just use my dry suit to trim. It always depends on how you learned it and how familiar you are with it. Believe me, you will always find a situation where the other concept may be better one. but the point is to manage a situation with your trimming approach. Experience and routine are the secret. In my opinion
I have been trained that my drysuit for buoyancy . I tried drysuit to reduce the squeeze and bcd for buoyancy I found that I used less air and better trim with the BCD 👍
I am an exclusively side mount diver. I switched tanks and forgot to put my tank band on one of my tanks so when I got to the lake I ended up diving with one tank. Fortunately, it was my left tank, with the hose fitting to connect to my BC. I ended up putting a couple of pounds on my right (clipped 2lbs on my shoulder, 2 lbs in my left dry suit pocket), and putting a secondary quick disconnect LP hose on my regulator to connect to the dry suit, and it dove GREAT. I was diving an LP108, so the buoyancy really didn't change that much. We didn't ever 'practice' it in class and in the materials, there was a small section on it, but it was the first time. My dive buddy, who I had not dove with before, didn't even realize I was single side mount diving.
Great roundtable question about drysuit for buoyancy. I dive mainly drysuit here in Canada. Started with using drysuit as buoyancy . Had problems with losing buoyancy as my aluminum 80 got less the half full. Switched to using my wing for buoyancy with just enough air in the drysuit to stay warm. Found it way better. Plus I dive with the valve all the way open. Cheers. Happy diving.
I got a lot of weird looks in the Red Sea a few weeks ago when I whipped out the drysuit, heavy socks, and long johns for 77F water. But even being 5'10" 150lbs, I was never cold on the 70-75 minute dives. And I used my drysuit for bouyancy and trim just like Steve does with zero air in my wing.
As a sidemount diver, and having my weighting perfect, I don't have to use my BC much once I have enough gas in my drysuit to take off a squeeze. So technically I guess that would be using dry suit for bouancy. I do dive with my shoulder dump open. Always a fun subject!
I find myself in Steve's camp. The air in my drysuit is for the squeeze and comfort; the BC is designed for buoyancy control, does it well and that's what I use it for. I do tend to keep the suit autodump a couple of turns closed on descent and level flight but that's more driven by experience with an old suit where the dump would let a lttle water in if left open. But trim is a different subject and there I absolutely use the suit to move the bubble around, especially as my sidemount wing keeps its gas in a small area in the small of the back.
1. Drysuit for exposure bcd for buoyancy, for me. 2. Single sidemount is fun. Lots of set up options though. I don’t offset weight. I use aluminum and weight myself evenly but slightly heavy. At beginning of dive i front mount the tank from my chest ring and my scooter ring. Once the tank is around 2,000 psi then i move it back to the side on a waist clip and bungee loop.
I think getting good trim in single side mount is a little bit more difficult, especially for new divers who are just learning. For me I have to start with an AL 80 clipped to my left butt plate, and a 2 lb weight on a bungee slider on my right waist belt, then as the tank becomes neutrally buoyant I clip it to my sliding d-ring on my left and slowly have to slide it towards my midline as it gets lighter, at the same time sliding that weight on my right hip belt inwards towards midline. I feel like a new diver has enough to manage with just thinking about their regulators and BCD hose without messing with all that other stuff
I have been in situations where I dived single sidemount with an al80 in salt water. I put a 4lb weight on my right side harness belt that I could slide. As I consumed air I could slide the weight to a more center of gravity location. Similar to when we slide drings down when tanks become buoyant. It's not ideal but it worked well enough to feel balanced.
I know people who did use single sidemount for discoverie dives, especially with kids! Just give them an harness and a small tank (AL40 for example or even smaller) to sidemount they are much more comfortable. And I most of the time single sidemount AL40! But with a chest mounted CCR 🤣 Meaning change of boyancy is not an issue as you consume nearly nothing on your sidemount cylinder (used as DIL and Bailout).
I dive a suit with a low profile Apeks dump valve (stock on the DUI suit). It will accidentally dump quite frequently if I don't notch it down a bit. My compass and computer are on my forearm on that side. I find I don't need to open it all the way again till ascending past 20ft or so.
I dive in the Netherlands, so almost always drysuit and use it for buoyancy. I think it depends on how cold it is, how cold resistant you are and personal preference.
That's a big one! I dive an Stealth 2.0 with redundant bladder, and lately I don't use the bcd at all, and try to keep all my buoyancy under control with the suit. And I think that once you've found your perfect weighting... Is the way to go, as is the fastest and more convenient way of venting without having to use your hands or changing position too much. A bit of shoulder lift and... done! Is this the right way to dive? Well, seems the right one to me right now, but I've been using mostly my bcd until now and I'm still alive, so... I guess is just a matter of preferences and conveniences for each situation.
I needed to use single SM once because a liveaboard wouldn't allow doubles. Balance was no problem, I had a 1kg/2lb weight that I slid along my harness. Starts near my waist, moves higher from there during the dive.
For single sidemount OW... Just dive two cylinders. Long hose is not too hard for OW students, swapping regs is not too hard, looking at a SPG is not too hard. I'm not a sidemount guy, but what makes me interested in sidemount OW being offered is that I believe a lot of good habits will be Imparted on students - such as being in trim, having a long hose, understanding weighting, being unafraid of redundancy (there are an amazing amount of divers - even solo certified - who are scared of configurations that are even vaguely "technical"). The *only* reason to not do sidemount OW In my opinion is because gear setup for each individual student might be quite challenging especially when a student doesn't yet "know what right feels like".
If you don’t see the imprint from yr peevalve on yr leg? To much gas 😂 I’ve got this from Martin Robson 😂 Always drysuit for me, from Mexico to Egypt to Finland 😉 I have the dumpvalve fully open and then close 1 or 2 clicks like Steve is telling. On the last deco in cold water maybe I would close it completely for warmth.
I have been diving drysuits the 20 years i have been actively diving (and teaching). Using your buoyancy control device to control buoyancy is the only right solution. If you only use your drysuit and for some reason have an emergency a drysuit can easily loose all buoyancy when the suit gets over inflated and all the gas leak out of a (neck) seal. You would be surprised of how fast you can loose buoyancy that way. You have a auto dump valve for a reason, Its not there for you to not use it.
I was listening to the UTD podcast several months ago, and some of their early episodes discussed single tank sidemount and they were really pushing it. I really thought it was odd at the time…still not sure what I think about it.
I only had steel tanks, so Single tank side mount is awkward for me period however , when I did use an Aluminium single side mount in a pool.I thought it was Great period. Generally for me after switching to side mount.I don't ever really want to dive back.Mount again period I love having access to all my gear up front Valves et cetera. I had a situation last year where my dive buddy ended up having a free flow On a single backmount. It's very awkward doing a valve. Shut off when you are back mounted. She was also Carrying a pony bottle So a full shut down at the tank wasn't the problem. But having the option to feather your valve when in side mount and you have easy access to it is very nice, And would be particularly valuable in a situation where you were single tank with a free flow and no pony bottle.
Use your drysuit. If your bc has air in it, you’re overweighted. Of course carrying stage bottles is an exception. You want to have enough weight to keep you neutral at deco with all your tanks near empty.
I disagree. Sometimes your tank configuration (I.E. steel) requires you to have air in your wing in order to be neutral. It’s all based on your configuration.
@@DIVETALKPLUSin the beginning of a dive, yes. I dive double 95’s for deep stuff and I have air in my bladder when I start. By the end, it’s empty, and I’m perfectly balanced with just using the drysuit. But as far as most of my dives with aluminum 80’s, my bc is always empty unless I take it off to climb in the boat. But yes, configuration has an effect.
I’m honestly surprised the fact some divers just prefer being dry didn’t come up. Don’t want to get wet scuba diving I’ll bring my drysuit from puget sound to Great Lakes to Bonaire. Has nothing to do with trim!
My instructor told me: control bouyancy only with dry suit. Please never do this.once the equipment or bottle is too heavy for your body, the only way to compensate is with you BCD. Checked. Rule for me: enough air in DS to avoid squeeze. Rest with BCD.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
Can't wait for the "sidemount only when needed" roundtable. I've had a number of people tell me it's an overkill for open water and it's harder to do boat diving in sidemount, etc. I started sidemount earlier this year and love it!
Same I was so hyped that he wanted to talk about it haha I’m a new diver and sidemount really appeals to me. I was just thinking about why not always dive sidemount? I hope we will get the answer soon ;)
I've been diving SM for several years and have only done OW and wrecks. LOVE IT! Started in rec
- More usable gas with 2 x SM tanks for two dives than 2 single tanks.
- Trim is a lot easier
- CAN make coming up the ladder easier (can take tanks off) and lower CG
- I CAN SEE MY VALVES
- True gas redundancy
@@heavydpj I like the "I CAN SEE MY VALVES" hahaha
Just do it. I dive both SM and BM doubles but I FAAAAAR prefer SM. Off a small boat, big boat, shore, everywhere.
Exception might be if I get into mod3 CCR because you need the room for bailout. But up to 4 tanks SM just dives nicer.
I’m new to diving, but side mount just makes more sense in my mind, so I just bought a stealth 2.0 with apeks regs as my first bcd setup, I plan on diving nothing but side mount moving forward (once I finish the certification).
I like the comment of using you dry suit for trim as a weapon. I definitely use it for that purpose. I have ALWAYS struggled with trim in a wetsuit, and now that I can move the bubble around, I am nice and trim all of the time.
Finally I can put faces to their great podcasts, thank you!
Really enjoy those 'tech talks'. Please consider discussing more of those controversial topics, there are plenty... deep(ish) air (130ft+), sidemount vs backmount (in OW), BOV vs DSV, mixed team diving (CCR + OC), deco procedures (ratio deco), mCCR vs eCCR... perfect channel to geek out, Cheers!
If I can share my humble opinion - I am from one of those “communities” who dive drysuit always (or almost always). Drysuit keeps you dry, not warm, so it really depends on what you put under it. I get cold very fast and feel comfortable to dive dry even in 28 degrees water. Adding another complexity to the dive such as drysuit management only makes us keep practicing and building up a bigger capacity, which is always welcomed. :) When I do a technical dive, I always choose drysuit even if the water is warm, just because of redundancy. Not only for you, but also for your buddy in case something happens.
You three are all right. I have been diving in drysuits since 1984. My first was a rubber Viking an I dive in drysuits with all materials and I have been working as an instructor since 1981. On most dives I just use my dry suit to trim. It always depends on how you learned it and how familiar you are with it. Believe me, you will always find a situation where the other concept may be better one. but the point is to manage a situation with your trimming approach. Experience and routine are the secret. In my opinion
I have been trained that my drysuit for buoyancy . I tried drysuit to reduce the squeeze and bcd for buoyancy I found that I used less air and better trim with the BCD 👍
hmmm so far ive been using a drysuit made of 1 atmosphere..
with regular air....
jeans shirt sneakers...
but i love watching ur show...
I would love to hear Steve's opinion on the recreational side mount option. Please!
Great discussion. Love the round table format.
I am an exclusively side mount diver. I switched tanks and forgot to put my tank band on one of my tanks so when I got to the lake I ended up diving with one tank. Fortunately, it was my left tank, with the hose fitting to connect to my BC. I ended up putting a couple of pounds on my right (clipped 2lbs on my shoulder, 2 lbs in my left dry suit pocket), and putting a secondary quick disconnect LP hose on my regulator to connect to the dry suit, and it dove GREAT. I was diving an LP108, so the buoyancy really didn't change that much.
We didn't ever 'practice' it in class and in the materials, there was a small section on it, but it was the first time.
My dive buddy, who I had not dove with before, didn't even realize I was single side mount diving.
Awesome discussion and panel. Looking forward to the next roundtable.
Great roundtable question about drysuit for buoyancy. I dive mainly drysuit here in Canada. Started with using drysuit as buoyancy . Had problems with losing buoyancy as my aluminum 80 got less the half full. Switched to using my wing for buoyancy with just enough air in the drysuit to stay warm. Found it way better. Plus I dive with the valve all the way open. Cheers. Happy diving.
I got a lot of weird looks in the Red Sea a few weeks ago when I whipped out the drysuit, heavy socks, and long johns for 77F water. But even being 5'10" 150lbs, I was never cold on the 70-75 minute dives.
And I used my drysuit for bouyancy and trim just like Steve does with zero air in my wing.
As a sidemount diver, and having my weighting perfect, I don't have to use my BC much once I have enough gas in my drysuit to take off a squeeze. So technically I guess that would be using dry suit for bouancy.
I do dive with my shoulder dump open.
Always a fun subject!
if i am cold, I will close my shoulder dump partially closed.
We are in cold water most of the year so heated undergarments are a must.
@@YukonSeanHolland what brand are you using for heated undergarments
I have the Santi full system (full suit) and gloves. And I use the vest and gloves when the water gets above 50 degrees f.
Love it guys.. keep them coming.
I find myself in Steve's camp. The air in my drysuit is for the squeeze and comfort; the BC is designed for buoyancy control, does it well and that's what I use it for. I do tend to keep the suit autodump a couple of turns closed on descent and level flight but that's more driven by experience with an old suit where the dump would let a lttle water in if left open. But trim is a different subject and there I absolutely use the suit to move the bubble around, especially as my sidemount wing keeps its gas in a small area in the small of the back.
More roundtables! Great info, I love hearing a variety of opinions on SCUBA's hard hitting subjects like this
1. Drysuit for exposure bcd for buoyancy, for me.
2. Single sidemount is fun. Lots of set up options though. I don’t offset weight. I use aluminum and weight myself evenly but slightly heavy.
At beginning of dive i front mount the tank from my chest ring and my scooter ring.
Once the tank is around 2,000 psi then i move it back to the side on a waist clip and bungee loop.
I think getting good trim in single side mount is a little bit more difficult, especially for new divers who are just learning. For me I have to start with an AL 80 clipped to my left butt plate, and a 2 lb weight on a bungee slider on my right waist belt, then as the tank becomes neutrally buoyant I clip it to my sliding d-ring on my left and slowly have to slide it towards my midline as it gets lighter, at the same time sliding that weight on my right hip belt inwards towards midline. I feel like a new diver has enough to manage with just thinking about their regulators and BCD hose without messing with all that other stuff
I could see using steel tanks for new divers where there's no adjustment needed
Round table videos sound like a fun idea.
The round table format is awesome
Great format. Loved seeing the three of you in one round table.
Greetings from Munich.
I have been in situations where I dived single sidemount with an al80 in salt water. I put a 4lb weight on my right side harness belt that I could slide. As I consumed air I could slide the weight to a more center of gravity location. Similar to when we slide drings down when tanks become buoyant. It's not ideal but it worked well enough to feel balanced.
Great! Love these… keep them coming guys!!!
I know people who did use single sidemount for discoverie dives, especially with kids!
Just give them an harness and a small tank (AL40 for example or even smaller) to sidemount they are much more comfortable.
And I most of the time single sidemount AL40! But with a chest mounted CCR 🤣 Meaning change of boyancy is not an issue as you consume nearly nothing on your sidemount cylinder (used as DIL and Bailout).
I dive a suit with a low profile Apeks dump valve (stock on the DUI suit). It will accidentally dump quite frequently if I don't notch it down a bit. My compass and computer are on my forearm on that side. I find I don't need to open it all the way again till ascending past 20ft or so.
I dive in the Netherlands, so almost always drysuit and use it for buoyancy. I think it depends on how cold it is, how cold resistant you are and personal preference.
I very much prefer sidemount. I've dove single rented AL80 in the tropics. Really no issue and you don't notice until you hit
That's a big one! I dive an Stealth 2.0 with redundant bladder, and lately I don't use the bcd at all, and try to keep all my buoyancy under control with the suit. And I think that once you've found your perfect weighting... Is the way to go, as is the fastest and more convenient way of venting without having to use your hands or changing position too much. A bit of shoulder lift and... done!
Is this the right way to dive? Well, seems the right one to me right now, but I've been using mostly my bcd until now and I'm still alive, so... I guess is just a matter of preferences and conveniences for each situation.
Excellent topic
I saw this diver in Cozumel with an Al 80 and a smaco tank on a side mount configuration.
I needed to use single SM once because a liveaboard wouldn't allow doubles. Balance was no problem, I had a 1kg/2lb weight that I slid along my harness. Starts near my waist, moves higher from there during the dive.
For single sidemount OW... Just dive two cylinders. Long hose is not too hard for OW students, swapping regs is not too hard, looking at a SPG is not too hard. I'm not a sidemount guy, but what makes me interested in sidemount OW being offered is that I believe a lot of good habits will be Imparted on students - such as being in trim, having a long hose, understanding weighting, being unafraid of redundancy (there are an amazing amount of divers - even solo certified - who are scared of configurations that are even vaguely "technical").
The *only* reason to not do sidemount OW In my opinion is because gear setup for each individual student might be quite challenging especially when a student doesn't yet "know what right feels like".
Very cool discussion enjoyed this immensely.
@Gus, interesting pendant you wore during the interview, what is that?
Not sponsored: wazoogear.com/collections/practical-pendants/products/viking-spark
You should add Avelo to the conversation. Just got certified - no more BCDs....
If you don’t see the imprint from yr peevalve on yr leg? To much gas 😂 I’ve got this from Martin Robson 😂
Always drysuit for me, from Mexico to Egypt to Finland 😉
I have the dumpvalve fully open and then close 1 or 2 clicks like Steve is telling. On the last deco in cold water maybe I would close it completely for warmth.
I have been diving drysuits the 20 years i have been actively diving (and teaching). Using your buoyancy control device to control buoyancy is the only right solution. If you only use your drysuit and for some reason have an emergency a drysuit can easily loose all buoyancy when the suit gets over inflated and all the gas leak out of a (neck) seal. You would be surprised of how fast you can loose buoyancy that way. You have a auto dump valve for a reason, Its not there for you to not use it.
Where can I watch that debate on transmitters v SPGs?? Im very interested
I was listening to the UTD podcast several months ago, and some of their early episodes discussed single tank sidemount and they were really pushing it. I really thought it was odd at the time…still not sure what I think about it.
I only had steel tanks, so Single tank side mount is awkward for me period however , when I did use an Aluminium single side mount in a pool.I thought it was Great period. Generally for me after switching to side mount.I don't ever really want to dive back.Mount again period I love having access to all my gear up front Valves et cetera. I had a situation last year where my dive buddy ended up having a free flow On a single backmount. It's very awkward doing a valve. Shut off when you are back mounted. She was also Carrying a pony bottle So a full shut down at the tank wasn't the problem. But having the option to feather your valve when in side mount and you have easy access to it is very nice, And would be particularly valuable in a situation where you were single tank with a free flow and no pony bottle.
Use your drysuit. If your bc has air in it, you’re overweighted. Of course carrying stage bottles is an exception. You want to have enough weight to keep you neutral at deco with all your tanks near empty.
I disagree. Sometimes your tank configuration (I.E. steel) requires you to have air in your wing in order to be neutral. It’s all based on your configuration.
@@DIVETALKPLUSin the beginning of a dive, yes. I dive double 95’s for deep stuff and I have air in my bladder when I start. By the end, it’s empty, and I’m perfectly balanced with just using the drysuit. But as far as most of my dives with aluminum 80’s, my bc is always empty unless I take it off to climb in the boat. But yes, configuration has an effect.
Since like a year ago I only dive sidemount, when I’m with recreational divers I use single tank and they look at me like if I’m an alien😂
I’m honestly surprised the fact some divers just prefer being dry didn’t come up. Don’t want to get wet scuba diving I’ll bring my drysuit from puget sound to Great Lakes to Bonaire. Has nothing to do with trim!
My instructor told me: control bouyancy only with dry suit. Please never do this.once the equipment or bottle is too heavy for your body, the only way to compensate is with you BCD. Checked. Rule for me: enough air in DS to avoid squeeze. Rest with BCD.