I know a lot of people won't notice, but the new setup with the lapel mics is really paying off. The audio quality in this episode compared to a month ago is night and day. Go back and listen to the Saint Kathrine episode in one tab then swap to this one, it's a glorious upgrade.
Thanks so much for saying so! It's really strange, at the time you don't really notice, then as soon as the change is implemented the difference is wild. Thanks as always for the support guys!
I agree.. the lapels are a great addition.. I am loving that you shouted these guys out.. i havent had a regret watching the amazing content the both of y'all put out
I tried reading the Horus Heresy so many times and got so bogged down in the "bolter porn." I then tried to read a more curated selection and skip some of the worst reviewed books in the series and failed again. Then I started reading the Caiphas Cain novels, books about the xenos races, and really anything not involving Space Marines and haven't been able to stop. Guess HH just isn't for me
Hey each to their own! Tbh there's a real wealth for great Warhammer books out there, with really interesting characters. Sometimes you just have to dig a bit to find them.
@@the_kieran_show I´m not even there (currently reading "mark of carth") but i already know about Lokens fate....Broke my heart :( Love that character !
I would say just read about legions or events that interest you. Most of the storylines in the final 3 books do little for the understanding of the whole thing. I wouldn't even say reading the last 3 books does anything. You know the events and outcomes - its just a much longer version of it and if you are not invested in the characters you probably won't enjoy it either way.
This was a really good summary for those who are thinking about getting further into the lore! Would love to hear your thoughts on other series e.g. the talon of Horus etc
I just recently read the first 3 books in the Horus Heresy and that was my first exposure to Warhammer lore. There were parts that I genuinely enjoyed but did not find them particularly compelling overall. So many pages about rembrancers that I didn't care about, so little actual characterization of Loken, Horus, or any of the other space marines who were key to the story. And the lack of any real motivation for the marines who turn against the emperor was jaw-dropping. Abaddon was particularly jarring because he went from being pissed that Horus wasn't exterminating the Interex in accordance with the Emperor's rules to joining the conspiracy with literally no explanation. I know that there are people who love the books, and more power to them, but they definitely aren't my cup of tea.
I read the Gaunt's Ghosts series + a ton of BL collections/short stories back in the early 00s, I read the ADB Night Lord trilogy just this year, I read some of the Mike Brooks Orks stuff... I don't think you could pay me to read all of HH. At the risk of elitism, Black Library authors, as a rule, seem to be extremely top-heavy in the sense there are 3-4 insanely good ones and not enough to go around for the rest. (Also buying all the books would cost like, 3 armies' worth of money, but I digress)
That seems like a pretty fair assessment tbh. I'd love to see some more story adaptations from authors, the ADB trilogy is just brilliant and straying away from the main narrative seems to be a success.
@@the_kieran_show The less confined they are by the hugest events of the story, the better, like you say. I read the first book of Dawn Of Fire and that was a slog with very occasional highlights even as an avowed Guilliman/Ultramarine/Primaris/White Consuls enjoyer. Just too much overhead to really be fun. Good shouts in the video, it can be difficult to find nuance in the 40k content creator community so I enjoyed the breakdown.
Definitely understand why Mortis isn’t popular, but have to say that the scene where the soldiers on the wall start jumping off due to hallucinations, or where that one guard crushes themselves through a firing slit, are some perfectly unsettling moments that give very 40k energy
The one story line that I very much like because it explains a lot of the things that happen later - is the story of the imperial cult forming around Euphratia and (sort of) Sigismund. It wasn't the Emperor who broke Chaos, separated warp from reality and made traitors to run away and cry in despair. It was done by the millions of simple religious fanatics united by their reluctant leader. And that explains the fall of the Imperial Truth and rise of the Ecclesiarchy really, really vividly. And it also makes the Emperor vs Horus duel less significant. I am sure it plays a role in it not feeling as climactic as you (and I) wished.
good review. i get the jist how it can feel stretched out. im mainly reading this series for kharn lol. world eaters had a bit of a role in the siege. but yeh kinda not looking forward to the story as it can be lengthy in descriptions.
It's just alot! I think what the Warhammer narrative does well is give a variety of characters you route for, it's just a shame it lacks a real ending at times.
I enjoyed the Horus Heresy series. I read every single book, short story, novella, etc. since it started. I don't imagine I would have continued had I not gotten something out of it. There were definitely some stories I liked more than others; I don't know if I would call them 'filler'; but more like they involved characters/factions/storylines that perhaps didn't appeal to me as much as others. Still, I wanted the whole experience and I got it. If you want to earn your black belt in Warhammer Lore, you gotta put your time in with the books boys LOL 🥋 I enjoyed the SoT series although some I wasn't that into - Mortis and Solar War kind of fell flat for me while Saturnine is my favorite overall and by a pretty large margin, i loved that book. Of the characters in the SoT, I don't know if I can pick favorites; I really appreciated Perturabo and what he was able to do and I liked Dorn a lot too. The series was able to offer some surprises - I think the biggest for me was Corswain and the Dark Angels showing up. His entrance at the very closing of Saturnine had me jumping out of my chair, I was so shocked and happy to see him. Having him come up with the plan of taking the Emperor's own flagship and suicide running it through the blockade to get to the mountain beacon was the kind of Big D*ck Energy I'd expect from a favored son of the Lion; but even I wasn't expecting that kind of badassery. Having that whole story end with him and Sigimund fighting back to back on the mountain was epic and I loved every bit of it. As for the big fights, I was actually kind of put off a bit with Horus and Sanguinius. I think it was how Sanguinius was described as a 'golden mote of light' zipping around Horus with his wings a blur and all that - I hate to say it but all I could think of was a little humming bird or worse, Tinkerbell from Peter Pan and it ruined the whole fight for me because I couldn't get Tink out of my head. On the flip side, I still think there was payoff because Dan was able to do something that I always felt was a big shortcoming of the series - Horus, once he stopped holding back, absolutely curb stomped Sanguinius with the most convincing thrashing I thought possible. Yes, Sanguinius had his rightful time to shine, but Horus was so swollen with power now, there was no doubt that even a 100% healthy Sanguinius would have been destroyed - Horus was ascendant and it was evident that the Emperor was the only being with even a remote chance of taking him down (and most likely not). The threat of Horus was FINALLY on display. Throughout all the books, I never felt like we had enough time with Horus, despite his name being on the marquis. We mostly only knew Horus was great because everyone kept saying he was and I think this is a weakness that the authors no doubt wish they could go back and correct. My understanding is that this was originally only supposed to be a 3-book series. It was only after its massive commercial success, the decision was made to turn the story into, well, a setting where a mythology could be laid out in detail. In retrospect, we really only meet 'good' Horus in the first book. We barely get to know him before he falls and Istvaan happens. I bet the authors would love to have had the chance to build him up more - let us get to know him and see through deeds and time with him, just how great he really was before his tragic fall. After book 3 though, sure he shows up now and then for a scene or two, but considering the volume of novels produced, he's more of a threatening/shadowy character in the background. These final books at long last let us see just what he was capable of and it was magnitudes greater than what we were perhaps lead to believe. The Emperor and Horus was never going to be personal; especially after the Emperor cast most of his emotional self aside in preparation for the battle. Yes, it was largely esoteric in how it played out but I think both showed the scope of their incredible powers - I never once thought it was going to be a conventional brawl so I guess I wasn't so disappointed. I liked part 3 of the End and the Death most of all out of the 3-part series. As for lots of it being filler? Maybe - I felt so invested in it after all these years, I suppose I recognized it but didn't mind so much. I liken it to Peter Jackson's Hobbit movies - most people didn't like those films, but since I love his take on the world of Tolkien so much, I still enjoyed spending time there with the characters I liked. It's been a long journey with these HH characters and I sort of didn't want to let some of them go. And yes, especially Loken - that was suitably dirty but you know, I loved his final interaction with Abaddon. In those final moments; they were just speaking as 2 weary brothers with no hint at immediate violence between each other. I don't know why, but these last moments of something akin to peace between them was just nice and I appreciate it. As for the Scouring - is that series confirmed? I wasn't aware of it although I always thought it likely. I doubt it would be another 20 year journey; it didn't take THAT long to chase everyone down. It would be cool to see the aftermath: Guilliman mopping up , Lion and Russ wiping the floor with everyone they are able to get their hands on, etc. I suppose we could also go deeper into some of the other big things that happened in that timeframe (i.e. Lion returning to Caliban and his showdown with Luther). I don't know - I think we all need a bit of a break from it but for me, I'm a satisfied customer, I'm really pleased overall with the HH series. I have to say though, I'm ready to move forward - I'm actually quite enjoying the narrative coming out of 40k right now and I'm looking forward to new stories. I am hoping everyone can find enjoyment from what's ahead as we move on from what's behind. Thanks for the video ❤
As someone who has never read any of the books, listening to you guys saying the closure and payoff was underwhelming for a 20 year series makes me sort of glad I never started them. I really considered getting through them on Audible as well.
Don't get me wrong SOME are brilliant. It's a very good series when you cherry pick what you want from it. Half the battle is looking for the cherries 🍒
I’m a big Legio Mortis fan and was hugely disappointed with Mortis. No Mortis characters, no Mortis-perspective storyline, it should have been titled “Ignatum.”
They did mention the psykers being sacrificed, and that whole thing started in Master of Mankind anyway. That book should not be skipped, at least. I loved SOT, especially Saturnine and Warhawk, and TEATD was insane, especially everything with the Dark King, and the Vengeful Spirit, the Warp, and the Palace all overlapping. Top-Tier cosmic horror. I read like maybe 30 books in their entirety but I don't really consider much of it 'filler,' its all cool characters and stories. The stuff with Ultramar like Pharos and Unremembered empire could be skipped maybe, but I would read Ruinstorm. The Night Lords in Pharos are fun tho. It just depends on what you're into, I think the First heretic - Know No Fear - Betrayer arc is mandatory, other people want to read books about Space Wolves and Salamanders, some people want bolter porn, I want Warp horrors and sadistic Night Lords. I love a good hateful duel tho, like Sigismund vs Kharn in Warhawk. Or Loken vs Aximand in Saturnine. I loved the HH. Im older than you guys tho, when you're 40 there aint shit to do but read a giant stack of books
I think Jaghatai being absent for half the siege is understandable but when hes gone in TEATD i felt there was a pretty strong lack of personality, everyone is dour and hopeless and Fair Enough it's the Actual Apocalypse but damn if i didnt miss him
The last chapter of the last book should have ended as Timmy and Bobby playing Warhammer in the basement. Bobby gets pissed at Timmy story and starts braking his terrain pieces and there mom is about to ground them for doing nothing but playing Warhammer all summer.
I can't be bothered to read all of the HH, its just too long, too many things that I don't care about. I also didn't read all of the Siege of Terra books for the same reason. Basically I read the Dark Angels, White Scars, Space Derps (also known as Space Wolves) some of the Alpha Legion and most of the Thousand Sons books as well as the first 4 books...and the End and the Death (overall with primarch books and all I think I ended up around 30 books which sounds too much...). To me too many storylines were pointless - the whole perpetuals for me didn't pay off at all. It was just trying to give some depth to Malcador's long life and making Oll Persson more than just 'random redshirt at the final scene'. I hated every part of that story whenever it came up in all the HH. End and the Death was a slog. A lot of it was filler that didn't really do much. Maybe it feels necessary to follow all the established characters til the end and make the big encounters feel epic. But at the same time most of it was just boring endless example battles, Dorn endlessly playing in the sand or whatever else happened that didn't move the story or like the perpetuals moved the story only because it was constructed in a way to make them meaningful, but if we are honest could have been done with other existing characters that would have been there anyhow. I admit I also didn't care much about the final part because none of the legions and characters that interested me where part of it (except that few chapters of Dark Angels). So I wasn't emotionally invested at all. I agree absolutely that the book should have ended with the aftermath of the Emperor being place on the throne and the return of the other primarchs. Like you guys said - Closure. For the Scouring - I really, really hope we get a dozen books at most. I just want to see the Fall of Caliban and that's it. I want some damn closure for the damn Fallen storyline and I don't think we will ever see it until Lion and Luther face off in 30k. Also damn Cypher mystery... 30 years is long enough.
I love Dan Abnett, he's my favorite author.... he's terrible at endings. I'm not surprised the ending wasn't great, but the character building, world building and filler is great... it's his style.
15:30 literally the last of us and bioshock infinite. not an insult, just you're right, "protect thing while going on a grand journey" is a hella concept
I have long held that Dan Abnett is the best author in the Black Library. Very disappointing to hear the final trilogy is so bloated, his writing rarely feels that way to me. I'll get to them eventually, but... 😢 I hope he can wrap up the Bequin trilogy sometime soon, now that his HH work is done. I thought the 1st 5 HH books were solid. Erebus is a total tool. It would have been nice to see more of the established Imperium before rushing straight into the fall. A couple of books of big E and Horus working together to claim the galaxy would have not only given more background, but would have invested us more in the characters. It would have made the betrayal far more visceral.
Unnecessary and redundant books, no literature value, just blatant merchandise. A shame, a true shame, considering the first 5-6 books of the saga were inspiring and, to some degree, innovative for the genre.
As someone who read most of fhe Horus Heresy and all of the Siege, I don't need go watch this video to guess the brainless nonsense that will be spewed here. There are issues with the series but I don't trust clowns on TH-cam who might have not even read it to comment on them.
@@the_kieran_show The only irony here is your channel getting recommended and you looking like the most smug tourists about to throw the dumbest takes imaginable.
I thought the siege of terra was dogwater especially the end and the death I don't know why writers felt it necessary to add so much nonsense lore to the setting. Enuncia, perpetuals, John grammatius, the dark King The horus heresy dragged on so long and is an absolute mess of a setting.
I can say we loved the subject matter but you're absolutely right that it went on for too long! SOT could have been 6/7 books max. TE&TD could and should have been no more than 2.
I know a lot of people won't notice, but the new setup with the lapel mics is really paying off. The audio quality in this episode compared to a month ago is night and day. Go back and listen to the Saint Kathrine episode in one tab then swap to this one, it's a glorious upgrade.
Thanks so much for saying so! It's really strange, at the time you don't really notice, then as soon as the change is implemented the difference is wild. Thanks as always for the support guys!
I agree.. the lapels are a great addition.. I am loving that you shouted these guys out.. i havent had a regret watching the amazing content the both of y'all put out
Thanks so much for the support mate! Glad to have you with us 😁
Goes to show that the best way to get good audio is to get the mic as close as you can.
I do think there's some reverb that needs cleaned up. Maybe some sound dampening in the room or the mics are too sensitive
This was really interesting as someone who hasn't been reading the heresy books.
Glad you thought so!
I tried reading the Horus Heresy so many times and got so bogged down in the "bolter porn." I then tried to read a more curated selection and skip some of the worst reviewed books in the series and failed again. Then I started reading the Caiphas Cain novels, books about the xenos races, and really anything not involving Space Marines and haven't been able to stop. Guess HH just isn't for me
Hey each to their own! Tbh there's a real wealth for great Warhammer books out there, with really interesting characters. Sometimes you just have to dig a bit to find them.
Haven’t read the books, but the summary of a friend of mine who read them all was „this should have been 10 books max“
Totally
That's the ironic thing... it originally was only supposed to be about 10 books! Dan Abnett and others have said the same thing quite a few times.
The real Horus Heresy were the friends we made along the way.
Magnus ❤️
@@the_kieran_show Curze 💙
I was seriously hoping that the last line in the End and Death 3 was Loken saying "I was there the day Horus slew the Emperor".
Would have been fitting I suppose but Loken was subject to a different fate 🙃
@@the_kieran_show I´m not even there (currently reading "mark of carth") but i already know about Lokens fate....Broke my heart :( Love that character !
40k is bigger than ever and becoming relatively well known. Having so much lore and content to pull from is what blew it up.
Totally!
24:42 Kieran is spot on. This is why Half Life 3 should never be made.
Yeah you're totally right!
I've only read the first 3 books back in the mid 2000's what would people say are the minimum required reading prior to the last 3 books?
Honestly just watch a Horus Heresy catch up video on TH-cam and dive right in.
There's too many books 🤣
I would say just read about legions or events that interest you. Most of the storylines in the final 3 books do little for the understanding of the whole thing. I wouldn't even say reading the last 3 books does anything. You know the events and outcomes - its just a much longer version of it and if you are not invested in the characters you probably won't enjoy it either way.
This was a really good summary for those who are thinking about getting further into the lore! Would love to hear your thoughts on other series e.g. the talon of Horus etc
Thanks! Yeah we would love to do that!
I just recently read the first 3 books in the Horus Heresy and that was my first exposure to Warhammer lore. There were parts that I genuinely enjoyed but did not find them particularly compelling overall. So many pages about rembrancers that I didn't care about, so little actual characterization of Loken, Horus, or any of the other space marines who were key to the story. And the lack of any real motivation for the marines who turn against the emperor was jaw-dropping. Abaddon was particularly jarring because he went from being pissed that Horus wasn't exterminating the Interex in accordance with the Emperor's rules to joining the conspiracy with literally no explanation. I know that there are people who love the books, and more power to them, but they definitely aren't my cup of tea.
Yeah you definitely need some rose tinted glasses to gloss over a lot of the failings in Warhammer books
I read the Gaunt's Ghosts series + a ton of BL collections/short stories back in the early 00s, I read the ADB Night Lord trilogy just this year, I read some of the Mike Brooks Orks stuff... I don't think you could pay me to read all of HH. At the risk of elitism, Black Library authors, as a rule, seem to be extremely top-heavy in the sense there are 3-4 insanely good ones and not enough to go around for the rest. (Also buying all the books would cost like, 3 armies' worth of money, but I digress)
That seems like a pretty fair assessment tbh. I'd love to see some more story adaptations from authors, the ADB trilogy is just brilliant and straying away from the main narrative seems to be a success.
@@the_kieran_show The less confined they are by the hugest events of the story, the better, like you say. I read the first book of Dawn Of Fire and that was a slog with very occasional highlights even as an avowed Guilliman/Ultramarine/Primaris/White Consuls enjoyer. Just too much overhead to really be fun.
Good shouts in the video, it can be difficult to find nuance in the 40k content creator community so I enjoyed the breakdown.
Definitely understand why Mortis isn’t popular, but have to say that the scene where the soldiers on the wall start jumping off due to hallucinations, or where that one guard crushes themselves through a firing slit, are some perfectly unsettling moments that give very 40k energy
Yeah those were great, just the book as a whole is so bloated 🫠
Great take gents, love the style and honesty
Thanks so much! 😁
The one story line that I very much like because it explains a lot of the things that happen later - is the story of the imperial cult forming around Euphratia and (sort of) Sigismund. It wasn't the Emperor who broke Chaos, separated warp from reality and made traitors to run away and cry in despair. It was done by the millions of simple religious fanatics united by their reluctant leader.
And that explains the fall of the Imperial Truth and rise of the Ecclesiarchy really, really vividly.
And it also makes the Emperor vs Horus duel less significant. I am sure it plays a role in it not feeling as climactic as you (and I) wished.
Agreed. The Keeler storyline was really good and sets up so much in 40K!
I HATED her. I couldn't stand any part of her storyline. Lol
@@Splat55099 lol indeed
good review. i get the jist how it can feel stretched out. im mainly reading this series for kharn lol. world eaters had a bit of a role in the siege. but yeh kinda not looking forward to the story as it can be lengthy in descriptions.
It's just alot! I think what the Warhammer narrative does well is give a variety of characters you route for, it's just a shame it lacks a real ending at times.
I enjoyed the Horus Heresy series. I read every single book, short story, novella, etc. since it started. I don't imagine I would have continued had I not gotten something out of it. There were definitely some stories I liked more than others; I don't know if I would call them 'filler'; but more like they involved characters/factions/storylines that perhaps didn't appeal to me as much as others. Still, I wanted the whole experience and I got it. If you want to earn your black belt in Warhammer Lore, you gotta put your time in with the books boys LOL 🥋
I enjoyed the SoT series although some I wasn't that into - Mortis and Solar War kind of fell flat for me while Saturnine is my favorite overall and by a pretty large margin, i loved that book. Of the characters in the SoT, I don't know if I can pick favorites; I really appreciated Perturabo and what he was able to do and I liked Dorn a lot too. The series was able to offer some surprises - I think the biggest for me was Corswain and the Dark Angels showing up. His entrance at the very closing of Saturnine had me jumping out of my chair, I was so shocked and happy to see him. Having him come up with the plan of taking the Emperor's own flagship and suicide running it through the blockade to get to the mountain beacon was the kind of Big D*ck Energy I'd expect from a favored son of the Lion; but even I wasn't expecting that kind of badassery. Having that whole story end with him and Sigimund fighting back to back on the mountain was epic and I loved every bit of it.
As for the big fights, I was actually kind of put off a bit with Horus and Sanguinius. I think it was how Sanguinius was described as a 'golden mote of light' zipping around Horus with his wings a blur and all that - I hate to say it but all I could think of was a little humming bird or worse, Tinkerbell from Peter Pan and it ruined the whole fight for me because I couldn't get Tink out of my head. On the flip side, I still think there was payoff because Dan was able to do something that I always felt was a big shortcoming of the series - Horus, once he stopped holding back, absolutely curb stomped Sanguinius with the most convincing thrashing I thought possible. Yes, Sanguinius had his rightful time to shine, but Horus was so swollen with power now, there was no doubt that even a 100% healthy Sanguinius would have been destroyed - Horus was ascendant and it was evident that the Emperor was the only being with even a remote chance of taking him down (and most likely not).
The threat of Horus was FINALLY on display. Throughout all the books, I never felt like we had enough time with Horus, despite his name being on the marquis. We mostly only knew Horus was great because everyone kept saying he was and I think this is a weakness that the authors no doubt wish they could go back and correct. My understanding is that this was originally only supposed to be a 3-book series. It was only after its massive commercial success, the decision was made to turn the story into, well, a setting where a mythology could be laid out in detail. In retrospect, we really only meet 'good' Horus in the first book. We barely get to know him before he falls and Istvaan happens. I bet the authors would love to have had the chance to build him up more - let us get to know him and see through deeds and time with him, just how great he really was before his tragic fall. After book 3 though, sure he shows up now and then for a scene or two, but considering the volume of novels produced, he's more of a threatening/shadowy character in the background. These final books at long last let us see just what he was capable of and it was magnitudes greater than what we were perhaps lead to believe.
The Emperor and Horus was never going to be personal; especially after the Emperor cast most of his emotional self aside in preparation for the battle. Yes, it was largely esoteric in how it played out but I think both showed the scope of their incredible powers - I never once thought it was going to be a conventional brawl so I guess I wasn't so disappointed. I liked part 3 of the End and the Death most of all out of the 3-part series. As for lots of it being filler? Maybe - I felt so invested in it after all these years, I suppose I recognized it but didn't mind so much. I liken it to Peter Jackson's Hobbit movies - most people didn't like those films, but since I love his take on the world of Tolkien so much, I still enjoyed spending time there with the characters I liked. It's been a long journey with these HH characters and I sort of didn't want to let some of them go. And yes, especially Loken - that was suitably dirty but you know, I loved his final interaction with Abaddon. In those final moments; they were just speaking as 2 weary brothers with no hint at immediate violence between each other. I don't know why, but these last moments of something akin to peace between them was just nice and I appreciate it.
As for the Scouring - is that series confirmed? I wasn't aware of it although I always thought it likely. I doubt it would be another 20 year journey; it didn't take THAT long to chase everyone down. It would be cool to see the aftermath: Guilliman mopping up , Lion and Russ wiping the floor with everyone they are able to get their hands on, etc. I suppose we could also go deeper into some of the other big things that happened in that timeframe (i.e. Lion returning to Caliban and his showdown with Luther). I don't know - I think we all need a bit of a break from it but for me, I'm a satisfied customer, I'm really pleased overall with the HH series. I have to say though, I'm ready to move forward - I'm actually quite enjoying the narrative coming out of 40k right now and I'm looking forward to new stories. I am hoping everyone can find enjoyment from what's ahead as we move on from what's behind.
Thanks for the video ❤
Scouring hasn’t been confirmed yet but we can safely assume that it’s coming. GW love a cash cow. Would also love to see the downfall of Caliban!
As someone who has never read any of the books, listening to you guys saying the closure and payoff was underwhelming for a 20 year series makes me sort of glad I never started them. I really considered getting through them on Audible as well.
Don't get me wrong SOME are brilliant. It's a very good series when you cherry pick what you want from it. Half the battle is looking for the cherries 🍒
Enjoyed how forthright this was, gg guys
Thanks Dad.. I mean Luetin..
I’m a big Legio Mortis fan and was hugely disappointed with Mortis. No Mortis characters, no Mortis-perspective storyline, it should have been titled “Ignatum.”
Really disappointed with Dies Irae should have been way cooler in the Siege, especially with how prevalent it was in the HH
I loved Warhark, not sure if that was because I found Mortis a real slog and it just felt like a breath of fresh air.
Yeah my word Mortis was a slog and a half, and it was such a long book too
They did mention the psykers being sacrificed, and that whole thing started in Master of Mankind anyway. That book should not be skipped, at least. I loved SOT, especially Saturnine and Warhawk, and TEATD was insane, especially everything with the Dark King, and the Vengeful Spirit, the Warp, and the Palace all overlapping. Top-Tier cosmic horror. I read like maybe 30 books in their entirety but I don't really consider much of it 'filler,' its all cool characters and stories. The stuff with Ultramar like Pharos and Unremembered empire could be skipped maybe, but I would read Ruinstorm. The Night Lords in Pharos are fun tho. It just depends on what you're into, I think the First heretic - Know No Fear - Betrayer arc is mandatory, other people want to read books about Space Wolves and Salamanders, some people want bolter porn, I want Warp horrors and sadistic Night Lords. I love a good hateful duel tho, like Sigismund vs Kharn in Warhawk. Or Loken vs Aximand in Saturnine. I loved the HH. Im older than you guys tho, when you're 40 there aint shit to do but read a giant stack of books
Some really good insights in here! Thanks 🫡
I think Jaghatai being absent for half the siege is understandable but when hes gone in TEATD i felt there was a pretty strong lack of personality, everyone is dour and hopeless and Fair Enough it's the Actual Apocalypse but damn if i didnt miss him
He was great in Warhawk!
The last chapter of the last book should have ended as Timmy and Bobby playing Warhammer in the basement. Bobby gets pissed at Timmy story and starts braking his terrain pieces and there mom is about to ground them for doing nothing but playing Warhammer all summer.
Now that would be the twist no one expected
That’s a twist and a half 😂
I can't be bothered to read all of the HH, its just too long, too many things that I don't care about.
I also didn't read all of the Siege of Terra books for the same reason. Basically I read the Dark Angels, White Scars, Space Derps (also known as Space Wolves) some of the Alpha Legion and most of the Thousand Sons books as well as the first 4 books...and the End and the Death (overall with primarch books and all I think I ended up around 30 books which sounds too much...).
To me too many storylines were pointless - the whole perpetuals for me didn't pay off at all. It was just trying to give some depth to Malcador's long life and making Oll Persson more than just 'random redshirt at the final scene'. I hated every part of that story whenever it came up in all the HH.
End and the Death was a slog. A lot of it was filler that didn't really do much. Maybe it feels necessary to follow all the established characters til the end and make the big encounters feel epic. But at the same time most of it was just boring endless example battles, Dorn endlessly playing in the sand or whatever else happened that didn't move the story or like the perpetuals moved the story only because it was constructed in a way to make them meaningful, but if we are honest could have been done with other existing characters that would have been there anyhow.
I admit I also didn't care much about the final part because none of the legions and characters that interested me where part of it (except that few chapters of Dark Angels). So I wasn't emotionally invested at all.
I agree absolutely that the book should have ended with the aftermath of the Emperor being place on the throne and the return of the other primarchs. Like you guys said - Closure.
For the Scouring - I really, really hope we get a dozen books at most. I just want to see the Fall of Caliban and that's it. I want some damn closure for the damn Fallen storyline and I don't think we will ever see it until Lion and Luther face off in 30k. Also damn Cypher mystery... 30 years is long enough.
Glad to see it’s not just us 😂
I love Dan Abnett, he's my favorite author.... he's terrible at endings.
I'm not surprised the ending wasn't great, but the character building, world building and filler is great... it's his style.
15:30 literally the last of us and bioshock infinite. not an insult, just you're right, "protect thing while going on a grand journey" is a hella concept
Need more of it in Warhammer!
@@the_kieran_show hear me out, kasrkin who saw cadia fall defending someone on a journey to safe harbor
I liked the stories of the human characters, despair no hope. All the books were worth it for me. Mortis was good.
See I loved the Khan story in Mortis!
*orders 20 years worth of books
Imagine the bill
I have long held that Dan Abnett is the best author in the Black Library. Very disappointing to hear the final trilogy is so bloated, his writing rarely feels that way to me. I'll get to them eventually, but... 😢
I hope he can wrap up the Bequin trilogy sometime soon, now that his HH work is done.
I thought the 1st 5 HH books were solid. Erebus is a total tool. It would have been nice to see more of the established Imperium before rushing straight into the fall.
A couple of books of big E and Horus working together to claim the galaxy would have not only given more background, but would have invested us more in the characters. It would have made the betrayal far more visceral.
Totally agree on having more books to cement the relationship between big daddy e and Horus! Would have totally added more weight to the downfall
Unnecessary and redundant books, no literature value, just blatant merchandise. A shame, a true shame, considering the first 5-6 books of the saga were inspiring and, to some degree, innovative for the genre.
A lot of the books did feel that way 🫠
"actually the emperor has to kill sanguinius" was is and will always be a stupid idea
But…. It would be coooooool
As someone who read most of fhe Horus Heresy and all of the Siege, I don't need go watch this video to guess the brainless nonsense that will be spewed here. There are issues with the series but I don't trust clowns on TH-cam who might have not even read it to comment on them.
Theres a beautiful irony in you not watching the video but still commenting 🤷🏻♂️
@@the_kieran_show The only irony here is your channel getting recommended and you looking like the most smug tourists about to throw the dumbest takes imaginable.
I thought the siege of terra was dogwater especially the end and the death
I don't know why writers felt it necessary to add so much nonsense lore to the setting. Enuncia, perpetuals, John grammatius, the dark King
The horus heresy dragged on so long and is an absolute mess of a setting.
I can say we loved the subject matter but you're absolutely right that it went on for too long! SOT could have been 6/7 books max. TE&TD could and should have been no more than 2.
I HATE that stupid train story. I also despised all the filler storylines with irrelevant characters. Why would anyone care about that stuff?
Yeah in the last 3 books the amount of filler and irrelevant stuff is a lot
@@the_kieran_show It is honestly like having a commercial break during a movie or something.