Trade Paint vs Retail - Are You Being Ripped Off?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2020
- James is unhappy with the huge price difference between Dulux trade paint and their retail version of the same paint from B&Q.
Trade and Retail Paint - What is the difference?
www.duluxdecoratorcentre.co.u...
A 10L tin of Dulux Weathershield All Weather Smooth Matt Masonry paint is 3 times more expensive from a Dulux Decorator Centre store than it is at B&Q.
Price comparison including VAT:
B&Q - £35
Homebase - £35
Brewers - £90
Dulux Decorator Centre - £108
#BandQ #DuluxTrade #housepainting
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Dulux has achieved one thing with this attitude: When I paint anything in future, I'll use a different manufacturer's product.
@GARGLER42
Professional decorators don't use Dulux paints.
Watch a decorating tradesman and you will notice he uses Crown or Johnstone's paints for interior and exterior work.
As for painting brickwork there are numerous alternatives to Dulux, a brand strictly for amatuers.
@@colintawn3535 - as a professional decorator for forty years, I disagree!
If my customer asks me to use Dulux, as many have, of course I'm not going to then recommend anything else! My response is "That's great, Dulux is one of the best,, you're right to choose that" or something similar. If given the choice, I use Armstead, another AN brand, but good and rightly priced.
@@colintawn3535 lols
@@1239chris Dulux trade is the best. End of. But other trade paints are fine. Due to the price professional decorators only use Dulux if it's specified because its not so much better to justify the price
AkzoNobel own most Brands.so you will have a problem finding another maker of paints!
The website states "Professional paints have a higher spreading rate than retail - this saves money" - if it covers an extra 10 sq m at three times the price, then surely this could be reported to trading standards as it's a complete lie. We've found the same with interior paint although it was only twice the price for us (£30 5l instead of £16). Great video, keep doing what you're doing!
Trade paint is meant to be better quality ?
A very good point. I think the Advertising Standards Authority could have a view.
Could it be because you also had it mixed especially to match the colour you already had? Maybe didn’t ask for an of the shelf alternative? Either way it’s taking the piss.
That’s a great idea, one for BBC watchdog maybe
@Andrew White the 'get out of jail free' card and/or quite possibly the reason that the product 'failed' after less time than the optimal (10 years) quoted will come down to the surface the product is applied to and the preparation of the surface beforehand. remember, their data will be based on perfectly prepped surfaces/new material/ideal conditions (most often) and could not possibly replicate the location or the aspect or conditions of the surfaces in your particular use and get the same results. all of that comes from experience (bitter) and reading the instructions! but hey, if you meet or even surpass those requirements and can back it up - and have your receipts then make a claim
I work in the print trade and we produce catalogues for what is a chain of builder merchants, all under different names spread across the UK. They are posing as a regional builders merchant, but they are a national company with a name change, depending on the location.
The inventory of the books is identical, the pictures and layout are identical, but the prices vary depending on region, those in the South pay more than those in the North.
Most interestingly they have what they call a national book, where you phone to place an order and they deliver. The prices are put up by 20% over London prices, but the cover of the book changes and says on the front that "If you have a trade account, we will pay your VAT" and bingo the price drop back down to retail prices and the tradesman thinks he has a good deal and in fact he paid top retail price.
interesting... corporations pretending to be a local business, we see this more often these days.
i would have walked out without paying for it , mixed or not.
same as
me too
Yup
Yep
I can't believe he felt guilted into buying it.
I'm a professional painter and have been for 30 years, I haven't used dulux since 2010 when the EU forced paint manufacturers to change their paint formulas to have lower voc's. Also dulux was bought by Akle Nobel (Crown manufacturer) and since these 2 changes dulux has gone down hill in quality with prices going through the roof.
I now use a masonry paint made by Bedec, it is quite pricey but its breathable and is 400% stretchable so any of those hair line cracks that always appear are hidden under the paint.
Good job fellas I always enjoy your videos.
Love Bedec paints, I’ve been using them for the last year. Wouldn’t buy anything else.
Nice pro tip.
Bedec will only accept bedec to be painted over. This is not written on the tin.
Assuming 100% stretch is 2x original size, then 400% is 5x original. Do you really think that Bedec paint stretches to 5x it's original size? That's like the stretchiness of an elastic band. Have you tried painting it on something and stretching it?
A colleague of mine had some fine cracks after using this on a new build. When he complained he was told that if there were no cracks before he painted it, and now there are 0.5mm cracks, the crack has increased from zero to 0.5mm, which is an infinite percentage increase.
Dulux paint is magic - I did all my skirting boards in white once, and a few months down the line they had turned to yellow.
Stop smoking.
Use water based gloss never turns yellow
@@stuartcruickshanks9607 Now he tells me...! Yes, I went over to WB pretty quick! chrz
that would be dulux retail oil paint which is useless they shouldn't sell it anymore trade oil paints do a little better but if doesn't get natural light it will still turn yellow in matter of months nowadays because the E.U. forced paint changes hybrid paints now are best to use around 90% water and 10% oil which stay white a lot longer i would recommend johnstones trade aqua range best water based paint on the market.
all solvent based paints in the paint industry yellow. It's the combination of alkyd and white spirit. Do not use a hybrid if you want it never to yellow as they will, only a true acrylic based product will not discolour
I would have walked and left them with the product. Three parts constitute a contract offer, consideration and acceptance. Because they never told you the price up front , no contract existed, therefore you should have walked away. Great video, just shows the trade centres are not looking after the industry.
They dont have to tell you the price up front. Anything thats for sale, is in law, an invitation to treat. If they agree to sell and you agree to buy, whether or not you know the price, a contract has been made.
That said, I would of walked away, knowing they cant stop you!
@@gbwildlifeuk8269 They may ban you!!
(as if you would ever go back.. fork 'em.. and word of mouth travels fast, bad news even faster!)
I'd have walked, "contract" or not.
@@gbwildlifeuk8269
So you walk into a Supermarket load up your trolley with food and other goods (knowing full well the price)So the supermarket has agreed to sell being available on the shelf and in theory as you place in trolley you are as I say in theory attempting to buy (your words)SO AT THIS STAGE ARE YOU SAYING A CONTRACT HAS BEEN MADE then you put it all on the conveyor belt at the checkout then walk away without paying.Are you stating once in your trolley one is committed to buy so the security guard can chase you and accuse you of theft even though the goods havent been totalled up and processed through the Cash till and not a penny piece has been handed over for said goods DONT BE RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!
@Flat Bastard Engineering Channel bullshit. Read law of tort, contract and the sale of goods act.
I would have turned on my heel when he mentioned the price, I wouldn't even have said anything to him. Let them worry about why a customer walked out. I think you may be too nice a chap. Lesson learned I suppose. Good luck next time.
Absolutely. They're selling paint like the crooks sell timeshares
And I think you'd be well within your rights to do so if a price wasn't agreed. I'd if done the same.
I went for a drink in Manchester once and got told it was 9 quid for a pint. So I asked for another 5 of them and when he'd pulled them I walked straight out.
@@am11744 Indeed. If the price wasn't agreed there was no contract. No contract - no obligation.
Honestly, I think I would have too. If it was a bit more expensive then I could have understood, but not at that much!
Fair play to the king build😁. Thanks Roger and skillbuilder we in the trade need this help. Painting a bedroom out Dulux £50 10 LITRES Leyland £20 10litres just to blat it out
Loved this video guys. A real eye-opener. I have a mate who is a painter and decorator. He tells his customers that he will use wilko paint. He has used crown, dulux etc but he prefers wilko all day long. He has customers that give him repeat work over and over again. Jusg like everything else, you pay for the name.
Personally I've used layland granocryl exterior paint. £10 per 5 ltr at the range and trago mills, and found it to be brilliant.
I painted one house 7 years ago now and still looks as fresh as the day it was done. And given that the house in 1m from a busy road, I think that's great.
Great content, keep it up. 👍
Insight from Australia. From my experience, trade centres are only interested in customers with big accounts and high volume orders. e.g commercial work - apartments etc. As the volume goes up, price goes down. Personally, as a small business, often doing small jobs, I find it cheaper to buy retail at the big box store rather than the Dulux trade centre. Although the difference in price is roughly 20%, not as much in your case. They don't care if your're trade or not, they only care about how much you're buying. e.g Economies of scale. Anyway, who cares , any painter worth his salt knows the most important component is the prep, not the brand. Dulux has the best marketing by far, but when you've done the correct preparation, it doesn't matter what brand you use. Don't get bogged down on these big companies who have lost their way chasing the profits, vote with your feet and buy another brand instead who wants your business. There's plenty of them around.
Cheers Roger and James . Keep up the good work.
Darren from Australia
Except for Mitre 10 , Accent brand.....may as well use water.
Yeah, as a one-man decorator, I paid about £40 for a particular 10 litre paint. I worked for a large contractor for a few months, and found out they were paying £9 for the same paint!
True here in New Zealand, paint in general is grossly overpriced, not just Dulux
@@tomwilson7452 EVERYTHING (except for secondhand Japanese cars) is overpriced in NZ.
Submit it to Which? I'm sure they'd love to investigate these two paints.
been telling people this for years.
They slap "Trade" on somthing and you assume its cheaper but its often the otherway around.
@Russell Durrant Trade...bigger colour choice. Yet I can go into a retailer and buy retail paint in virtually any color i can imagine (they have machines which will match color to any sample you bring in) so I dont think there really is any bigger color choice for trade paint at all
same as apple slaps " pro " on their devices and its no better than a cheaper microsoft or android device
@@girlsdrinkfeck As a software developer, I can assure you that is not the case, at least not with phones. Apple's ecosystem & security is far, far better than Android. Most commercial mobile software developers really dislike Android as it's far too easy to hack & steal apps.... If you care about your mobile devices security, get an Apple device, it's not perfect, but it's far better than anything else.
@@ckm-mkc that's nonsense. At work we all use Windows and android there is zero ios devices and I work at, uks 4th largest retailer
@@ckm-mkc - Its clear you work for Apple, or have been influenced by their marketing. Internet security companies would disagree!
There is a difference in coverage retail takes three coats to cover trade two ! . Retail is pre thinned for the retail market ,trade isn’t . But on the other hand they keep messing about with the formulas and the whole range isn’t as good as it used to be !!! I use isomat paints now cheaper and better coverage
My decorators couldn’t see a difference in application or coverage. Retail emulsion and oil based stuff is crap but This weathershield masonry was identical to the trade stuff.
Been there, done it, got the T-shirt...
The paints referred to are extremely close to chemically identical.
The coverage quoted is always an estimate anyway, and it is stated as higher on the other container (by a tiny 6.66% in this case) by assuming a higher 'trade' skill level when using it.
It's all legal and marketing smoke and mirrors.
Random Task lol, that's 300% price increase for 7% coverage increase. Not a good deal there.
@@dylanharrington744 No, he's saying its identical paint with identical coverage. The only reason 'Trade' paint covers 'more' is simply because Delux (apparently) assumes pros are more efficient.
@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb Pros don't knock over a tin supposedly
Trade paint is generally more pigmented.... in other words you can water down trade paint more for a first coat on pebbledash for example and therefor it goes further whilst holding its colour more due to more pigments. Just what I’ve heard from a long serving decorator. I do a lot of painting myself and do prefer the trade paint as it just flows better 👍 just my opinion. That’s all 😀
trade you need 1 less coat often too. as you say goes on much nicer
As an architect I am always baffled and amazed at the mark up of trade paint and how they can get away with it! In my opinion, Its mainly to catch the the bigger contractors on large projects - whereby they cannot go to b&q to buy 1000 tins of paint, and they make big big bucks from marking it up with very little changes for people with pockets that never end. It’s just disgusting and a real shame the smaller more money conscious projects can also get dragged into this money grabbing ideal!
Well done, I’ve paid the extra for trade paint in the past and found it to be chemically identical to retail formulas. Glad you are using your audience to bring attention to this issue.
Could not agree more, a mate recommended Dulux Trade (Interior Wall Emulsion) but also ended up during Lockdown to use Retail. Would always go with Retail !! Leyland emulsion now my go to for ceilings too .., thanks guys, much appreciated...
Been there, got the bill at the counter, told them to shove it. Drove across town to a retail centre.
A friend had a similar experience in the Dulux trade centre here in Dublin. & I had a similar experience with the Fleetwood trade centre, but with metal paint. Wanted crazy money; Twice as much as the price of Hammerite paint. & when I got a chance to use there metal paint a few weeks ago of a painter, it was bog standard.
Lesson: Stay away from those paint trade centres. unless you like getting ripped off.
Hammerite is another of Akzo Nobel's brands, like Sadolin, Polycell, International, and many more.
I used to work for Unilever. One day the machine that put invoices in envelopes malfunctioned and sent second pages to different customers, effectively showing customers what the competitors were paying!
I had to install a new 250K machine the week after!
Hi guys. I’ve been painting for over 30 years and I would never use b&q for the Dulux paint. It’s far more watery and takes more coats than Dulux trade. I pay around £40 for a mixed up colour and after the mist coat I only do a further two. This is only my opinion and hope this helps. J
LOL I wouldn't use dulux at all there captalistic..
used Dulux trade for years then like you i realised the cost difference, since then i only use the trade version if the client wants a very specific colour mixed i cant build in that kind of pricing to most jobs. I've never found any difference in consistency or colour between the two. and i will state its very good paint which i use as a preference for all external work with a mixture of roller brush and spray. and thanks for raising this on a great forum il keep peeled for an eventual outcome (hopefully)
I think this is a very important question and clearly warrant further scrutiny....Thanks for the vid
As a decorator for many years, trade Dulux is a rip off, even with the 20% discount I get from my supplier. Problem is, B&Q don’t mix Dulux any more. They only stock a limited selection of off the shelf colours. Try Valspar from B&Q which is a quality paint or stick with off the shelf Dulux from B&Q.
Hi u can still get mixed up some of the Dulux paint from Homebase
Valspar is the worst paint I have ever used, watery thin and 4 coats per wall to get an even coat. Dulux, crown etc are far better quality.
@@MrJin09 Is Valspar the brand that had the "cat urine" odour problem a couple years ago?
MrJin09. I’ll never buy Valspar again. I decorated the whole house and two cans of what was supposed to be same colour were totally different. I now use Crown trade from Brewers and have been very happy so far.
I've seen similar with "Trade"; I always work out the price in advance. If the branch tries it on, I give them one chance to price sensibly otherwise I walk out.
Hi Roger I'm am so glad you have shown this the price of paint is astronomical now it seems to increase by the week great video and I feel for your man there I wonder if he lost on that because how do you explain that one to your customer. Many thanks
Years ago I had a problem with my Dulux paint I bought at B&Q. I complained and they sent me a voucher to go and get a free tin made up from Travis Perkins.
They mixed the paint, but it was Dulux Trade, and I asked if it will be the same as the paint I bought from B&Q as I was touching up areas and the guy told me, "its exactly the same". Sure enough I finished painting the room and it was exactly the same.
Take this further lads. Get trading standards to look into it for a start.
I go to a local paint factory and buy from the factory shop brilliant deals and a full range of colours and applications
Best deals are the dented tins ... Homebase £24 factory shop £4 +vat
Came here on the back of the beanie video... nice to see how dulux treats their customers... I might not use a lot of paint in my working week... but I promised you this... what i do use...none of it will have the dulux name on it from now on.
Ha ha! I recently did a house with weather shield jasmine white...tbh, I had EXACTLY the same complaint... I got them for £83 each 10l tin. I ended up luckily only buying a couple then switching to the cheaper The thickness was minutely thicker in the trade paint. Never again. Brilliant video
Yeah moved away from Dulux along time ago for their prices, this is extreme though!
We have the same thing going on over here in Dublin. Johnstone’s and Dulux trade centres charging ridiculous prices for paint compared to the DIY places and a lot of the paint is the same
Thanks for the heads up guys as I've just bought an old house that needs gutting and redecorating so I wont be going to the Dulux center.
Only half way through the vid BUT let me just say we need more of this! These people have been getting away with this for sooo many years its basically a crime!
Perhaps you should report them to Trading Standards.
All they do is offer advice to the customer on how to claim a refund
@@cglees Not true. I have a case going against a car dealership at the moment and TS are going after criminal charges. They do have power when they want, but in this case, technically Dulux have done nothing wrong.
Gary Einhorf congratulations for getting them to take some action! Not my experience of them, must be a very naughty car dealer!
Trading Standards' mandate is limited to only protect Consumers and not other businesses.
@@snapdragogon69 Where did you hear this? Trading Standards' most certainly can and do take action against trade-only businesses.
Most customers of theirs are firms who put it on account and just receive a monthly bill with hundreds/ thousands of litres on, and the bigger firms have preferential rates (roughly equal to the B&Q price stated here). They charge this because they can get away with it.
I watched this when it came out and was interested as our local hardware shop only stocks the Trade Dulux range. Last week I was decorating a room and I had some vinyl matt left over but also bought a large tub of normal Dulux vinyl matt from a DIY superstore; I was painting grey walls white. The Trade covered in two coats, but the normal took three coats - that would support some of the difference in price; however, if you take into account time and effort of having to do an extra coat, that might swing the balance... Obviously, refreshing a wall in the same colour, it would make sense to use the cheaper one
I'm a hotelier (34 bedrooms) and I get most of my paint for free at my local council rubbish tip. Yes, really. Lots of council tips put tins of paint in a special place. Not every council tip does it but many do. Paint is difficult to recycle, so members of the public are welcome to take it for free. I visit the tip once or twice every month and always take lots of free paint. Typically I'll get two or three half-buckets of white or magnolia, a couple of tins of varnish or stain, some Hammerite and a couple of half-tins of gloss. Save the oil-based stuff in the shed 'cos fire officers don't like gallons of oil-based paint indoors. Keep the water-borne stuff indoors 'cos of the risk of frost-damage. Some emulsion is smelly so I quickly chuck it out. The rest is good. After four or five months I've got enough to completely repaint a couple of bedrooms. Sometimes I find a couple of tins of new unopened paint, with the little metal clips still attached.
Sounds like a great place to stay whats your hotel name... Or not!
Is this the lime green, pink, army green , pillar box red and council yellow line painted hotel ?
@@Philmoon69 doing his bit for the environment.
This is hilarious! I hope you don't get the bed sheets there too.
@@SBBUK No! Too many skid marks. However, I do indeed get most of my furniture there. My premises in 1997 had mostly veneered chip board furniture. I've replaced almost every piece of furniture in almost every room. I love late Victorian and Edwardian furniture, plus 1930s art deco. The stuff has very little value, but it's well-made and beautiful.
Thanks for this. I won’t buy Dulux based on this experience. It’s not about the one-off incident, which you might be able to forgive - it’s about the terrible service and lack of any desire to be accountable as a manufacturer. Been in the game too long, Dulux have.
Dulux has always been overpriced, we have both Dulux and Johnstones trade centres in my home city and Johnstones is by far the busier as it's excellent quality and far cheaper.
Well done lads, spot on. I've found exactly the same with this brand and, in fact less expensive Leyland paints when it comes to pricing. B&Q clearly have the buying power here. For example, 2.5l of Leyland MDF primer was £15 in B&Q whereas at an Ipswich well know paints specialist they wanted £45 for the same. Good job for me though it was out of stock due to Covid etc. otherwise I would have been tempted to pay more just to have it. Hard won lesson here is to shop around and do then vote with your feet. That way the message will get home to them that they can't keep on getting away with it. Keep up the good work!
thanks for the video i can relate to that...not a tradesman but during the lockdown I've been busy redecorating - pretty much done the whole house inside and out and one of the best decisions I've made, is to stop using Dulux - not only is their customer service awful as you've shared but I've found much better quality paint over the last 9 months...the other thing that really p'd me off with Dulux is that they have that weather shield paint in 3 different versions at three different prices with hardly any difference (as described on their labels).
Oh I'm all over this (long post coming) A few yrs ago I went to B&Q (on a Sunday(not at work)) to get some paint for my hallway, chose a colour and B & Q didnt have it in stock, went to the 'Dulux Trade Centre' was told that's NOT a Dulux colour!! when I asked why I was told that it's a B&Q colour in a Dulux can made to a totally different recipe, ended up buying a better colour from Dulux...more fool me but it was my own house so sucked the price up.
During 'lockdown' I needed some paint for my lounge (as I couldn't go to work the wife ...you know the rest) went to Dulux looking for paint I was told a minimum of £100 order!!!!! I wanted 5 ltrs!!!
Last week a customer (Friend) wanted me to use Dulux 'Soft Sheen' in white (just white not a colour mix) went to the Dulux centre asked about their paint, they don't make a 10ltr tub of soft sheen as it it 'too heavy' not sure what that means tbh and only sold it in 5ltr cans, a 10ltr in matt was £75, the 5ltr soft sheen was £48 as I needed 30ltrs that nearly £300 just for the walls no woodwork paint, went over the road to Johnstones bought 3 10ltr tubs of Johnstones Cover Plus (my goto paint normally & and was no 'heavier' than a normal pot of paint) 7.5 ltrs of Leyland Eggshell total cost £194!!!
I never use Dulux for 2 reasons 1) I think their paint is overrated and not good to use (IMO) 2) way too expensive. They live off the Dulux name ONLY their paint has been poor for over 20yrs for the price of it, Albany paint from Brewers is better as is Johnstones Cover plus.
DO NOT BUY DULUX ITS A RIP OFF
No paint is as good as it was 20 years ago. EU legislation has made them take out all the stuff that made it good.
Then they wonder why their trade centres are going bust 🙄
Most of the time big outlets like B&Q are cheaper due to sheer volume of order I imagine but just shocking dulux couldn’t give a toss. Their normal trade paint is for sure better quality but as always you got to shop around and make case by case comparisons.
Try this. I went into Dulux for 10 litres of Gardenia masonry but checked price first because onced mixed there is no return. Even on account it was over £100. So I went to a local independent decorators merchant where they had 7.5 litre tubs of Dulux trade white masonry which they tinted to Gardenia free of charge. I paid £28 all in. Most independents will do this, some may charge a couple of pounds. Just make sure you buy all the paint for the job at the same place, mixed in the same way.
Good tip, we are doing some shopping around to see what we can get where.
1 litre oil based eggshell at Brewers £32 same paint at Greys £11, Yes a lot of trade paints have much higher opacity and save a ton of time and work and examples like this are sneaked in under the radar so very happy to see you post this, same with caulk, some places it's £3.50 and only £1 in another shop for the same size and quality, imagine if paint companies could not sell cheaper to the public than to trade, what a great day that would be for the industry. good work lads.
I bet the extra 10 square metres is because a professional painter is going to waste a bit less than a non painter like me would.
A pro knows how to lay it out, they won't drip and splash, their brushes and rollers won't be absolutely caked full of paint when they're finished.
As a Dulux approved “Trade Professional” buying in bulk discounts through the Dulux branch are sufficient to explain the huge difference in price. B&Q would get a similar discount to a Dulux Trade Professional.
As for the product being any different...that’s garbage!
Can you imagine at the Dulux factory “ Ok guys, stop that retail junk production line and remove those tubs please and set them to one side.” “ Now, clear out all the process equipment and start again with the fancy trade formula and make sure the colour and texture remain exactly the same!.”
My hunch is that Dulux would assume a professional painter would be able to make their paint go further rather than the product being any different which is why the coverage is different.
I have tested both of them and they are different, Trade is thicker and cover better, its obliterance is higher and we normally paint a room with 2 coats of trade, instead of a 3 coats of retail version
@@pasisovi ok so you get it to go 1/3 further ? How do you explain the other 2/3rds more in price ?
Thanks for the video Roger and James. I had a similar experience at my local Dulux decorator centre. I asked for a 5l tin of Trade colour mixed kitchen grade emulsion without asking the price. I've previously bough the same paint at my local independent builders merchant, so thought I knew more or less what it would cost. As it was a Saturday afternoon my indy was closed, so off I went to the Dulux shop. When it turned out they were in the region of twice the price I was shocked. I won't be going back there - simples!
Good luck bringing Dulux to account.
Nice to hear from someone who did the same thing. We don't always ask the price because we think it will be there or thereabouts.
Very well done for exposing this Dulux scam. I have an account with one of their "Trade" centre's in North London (soon to be cancelled!!) and feel I've got to be on my toes in terms of ordering paints (Btw, I'm an established building contractor in the area) and it's quite easy to detect a sense of unease from the sales assistants that they are being so obviously coerced into essentially conning customers. Such a shabby way of doing business. Anyway, thank you for another great vid...
Having been in the factory at ICI in Slough I already knew they put the same paint in different brandings!! so trade in many cases makes no difference and in this case pay more!
I used to work for Crown Paints, so I have a few insights to what goes on - we viewed a lot of retail paint as awful stuff to use - but the public want it cheap. This is all about opacity which isn't defined on the tine. How many coats to get the cover you need. You can disguise this by raising the viscosity - it's jelly like consistency - so as you load a brush with something like loose jam it looks good and thick. You could compare something like Little Green Paint Co emulsion with retail Dulux emulsion to see how that works - same coverage quite different opacity. Trade paint will also be higher priced as the distribution costs are higher - it’s easy to send paint to supermarkets by the 40-ton truck - not so easy to get it out to thousands of smaller quantity trade shops.
The answer will be somewhere inside Dulux - but as with all huge companies, management staff just can't find out who to ask - it will be a chemist in a paint lab somewhere in the World.
Hi Chris
We appreciate your inside knowledge of the industry and if Dulux wants to give us a day in their lab we are happy to come along. At the moment we have nothing but anecdotal evidence that this paint was considered to be no different by the guys using it.
I used Dulux trade white interior and retail version for my office renovation. The trade was more money but I used two coats where the retail needed at least three coats.
The walls were done in trade Cornish Clay colour not available at B&Q. Again 2 coats over the most scabby wood chip looked great.
I use leyland primer/undercoat for bare wood and it’s bloody brilliant, cheap as chips. It’s great paint in general, the white emulsion is great too.
Edit: Dulux sprit based gloss goes yellow after a few years.
Just repainted my house in Merstham with Sandtex smooth masonry paint. Just as good as Dulux in my opinion. Paid £29.99 For 10 litres from Screwfix locally and they hold it in stock. DIY outlet price locally is £29.99 for 5 litres. No brainer.
Just down the road from me!
Indeed, I use the Screwfix on Holmethorpe
Loads of great info on here from Skill Builder and I respect people who want to do a proper job. There are too many cowboys around that are ready to rip you off with shoddy work. Keep up the good work!
I'm not a decorator, but I haven't bought Dulux since I bought a very expensive tin of their paint which had next to no pigment in it - was like trying to paint with skimmed milk (and yes, I did stir it). Leyland is my current favourite.
I've used a lot of Leyland through Toolstation. Happy with it.
Dulux is like skimmed milk will not cover , use only LEYLAND
Great video guys, I have had just this experience with Dulux. I brought some Dulux Matt from B&Q, but they didn’t have every colour in stock, went to a Dulux trade center, less than half a mile away & got stung. They didn’t mention how much it was & gave me the same waffle about it being better paint. I didn’t get done as bad as James, mine was only double the price. When I asked about it, they offered me 10% off if I spent over £100. Absolutely disgusting, I won’t be going back again.
Stopped using Dulux a while ago - paint quality seemed to go down, prices went up. Crown, Sandtex etc just as good if not better. The exception is Ducksback (same company, AzkoNobel) as it seems decent stuff.
i can tell you now, having worked in one of their factories in Australia that from one 50 000 litre tank they fill about 8 different brands including all the hardware brand paints. the only difference is the cost of the can they use for brands. Some have a sticker on can and others are transfer, there can be a difference of $8.00 per litre. The cheaper paints are last years formula
i noticed this the other week when the onlty cashmere colour gloss i could find was dulux and it was £90 for a can... i though the same thing like oh trade paint, must be a discounted price for like 20 literr or something crazy but no. it was a regular size tin you can buy but multipel times the price.
only possible difference i can tell is they offer different colours,, and apparently they also do the exact same colours which is nuts. but theres no reason those colours cost more to make.
I am still green in the trades, however from my experience if I have a decent wall that needs two coats then B&Q is fine, that being said if it is a bad wall, a good few years old with alot of abuse trade is the way to go, B&Q 4 coats VS trade 2...... if you have not got a account at a deluxe merchant you will always pay more.... alot more. For an example I get 80% off for buying drainage just because I am "in the trade" from a nation wide building suppliers.
Hello skill builder keep up the good work
Iv got the same feelings as you about dulux I'm a joiner by trade and also a landlord a wile back I refurbished 4 of my flats, one after another all the gloss work was done with oil based stay white gloss by dulux. I was advised by the shop that this was the best paint to stay white (my pet hate is yellow gloss)
After the first flat was completed I moved on the the next project and never gave it a thought ,buy the time I finished the 4th flat (7 months later ) I called back to the first flat to do a small repair , when I first entered the flat I noticed straight away that the gloss was yellow
Cut I long storie short it turns out if the paint donst get sun light it turns yellow ie hallway behind furniture backs of doors I complained to the shop but with no joy
So I was left with no choice to decorate all the flats again as they went the same way
So thanks to dulux it cost me a small fortune
And I'm sure 1000s of other people had this problem .
Never used dulux again....✌
Moral of the story....don’t trust any of them. Get a price before committing 😉
Interesting video be good to have a follow up video if you come to a conclusion. I'm never sure the difference think is a scam! I'd have left it on the counter even after they mixed it! Bet the poor girl that had to deal with you complaint gets a shit wage despite the cost of the paint!
One of my best friends is a painter and decorator and he tells me that every Dulux centre has gallons and gallons of paint that they have mixed for people who refuse to pay the exorbitant prices they charge by as shown in the video not disclosing the price of said paint to the prospective purchaser, trade or consumer. They sell off at preposterously low prices or even give away this paint gathering dust in their warehouses to their regulars.
@@BusinessButlers - mmmmm........
Your totally right here, probably the same product, shop around, trade paint shops are always bumped up prices due to the fact firms with accounts use them and operatives don’t care about the price as it’s firms cash, I got same can of gloss mixed at the blue pant shop and it was £80 and bbq mixed it the same for less than half.
when comparing the Dulux brilliant white interior emulsions I have found that there is a big difference in the relative weight of the tubs, the trade variety being significantly heavier, which indicates more pigment is used, it is also much thicker, than the B&Q retail variety.
There’s a big difference, I’ve used diy store emulation, it’s weird looks like stirred jelly or something, and the paint itself when finished looks ok but doesn’t have much body to it and isn’t durable at all, unless you buy easycare which is just diamond Matt, and same price roughly
Jurgen Klopp is a painter on the side.
It appears the trade is in a silver can you can melt down at the end, the other only plastic. Good value to me.
I got caught out years ago using Trade Decorating Centres, but I wised up quickly. The Big Sheds are the best prices, especially if you look out for the offers like 3-for-2. Even Screwfix and Toolstation have good prices.
As a painter and decorator since 1983 , i have had this discussion on many occasions with all trade paint merchants. They always come back with the same answer " Trade paint has better opacity and flow rate " ( covers better and goes further) on the rarest of occasions I have noticed a slight difference between retail and trade, but in general not much in it. When purchasing from a merchant the paint mixing colour can vary from one tin to another whilst off the shelf pre mixed retail colours remain consistent 🤔 . I always price for two coats, if your decorator is happy to use retail and you are prepared for it possibly needing another coat at an extra cost to you it will still be possibly cheaper than the price you are overpaying in the merchant 👍🏻
BACK TO BASICS!
If "Trade" is 3 times the price of "Retail" (Dulux & some Pro decorators have said that it's made from better quality materials, which is probably true)...well then it should be 3 times more durable...or three times quicker to apply! -otherwise What's The Point? If you are repainting the same colour you obviously don't want to repaint every 10+yrs (Retail) when you may get away with 30+yrs!
The only people repainting the same house with the same colour every 10+yrs are homeowners (DIY'rs). I've never seen a house that still looked good after 29yrs without repainting- Trade or Retail!
Pros paint a house and move on to the next, they don't live with the paint job and note how it deteriorates/weathers or when it needs re-painting! At least not over a 30yr period!
Shocking customer service. They’ve not even tried to apologise . Poor. Sorry to hear James is in the red with this build as well....such a fantastic job I feel really if he’s not been able to turn a profit. Hopefully this channel will result in a wave of extra work for him.
The most shocking part of your post is, that you expect customer service to be good everywhere. NEWS FLASH! They don't care. No one cares. Stop living in the past and move on.
Apologise for what?
We needed to paint some wooden battern and board in our front room.
Went to bnq, we wanted a dark green satin.
They kept trying to persuade us to get the wood specific paint, which was 3 times more than normal satin, which can also be used on wood.
We left without paint, went to dulux center, had a lovey dark green satin for wood, 3 times more expensive than bnq.
Think it was like 80 quid for 10ltrs.
Went to wilko, got a nice dark green matt, a tin of satin paint, 25 quid the lot.
Went on lovely, the varnish has a really nice finish on it.
Job done and very pleased with the result.
Bnq are rip off, dulux even more so!!
Screw Dulux , Buy Sandtex or even Johnstones Paint . I had the same treatment when I went in for sandstone coloured floor paint . Quoted me over £100. In the end I went to a local independent trade center and got 5l of excellent stuff colourmatched for about £35
It was known for years that Akzo Nobel wanted to buy Dulux, eventually acquiring ICI in 2007, knowing such (perhaps previously) 'trusted brands' can be 'milked' by increasing the prices continually, so as to yield more and more profits!!!
Rename the video "Are Dulux ripping off the trade?" and you'll get the attention of their customer services!
I used to work for a paint firm and I can tell they don't make different versions, just label the same products in different ways. For example white emulsion labelled 'white, super white,brilliant white etc are all the same pigment' just they 'dirty' the white with a spot of black its the amount of pigment in the product that counts for covering power
As a bricklayer we get the same problem with cement, selco being £3.90 a bag then going to build base which is owned by the same company nearly £8 per bag!
That's dulux on my boycott list
Sean Mcallister ............Mine too
Dulux = ICI
Their trade centre prices are highly inflated to show what a saving they have when customers setup accounts and get further discounts when you hit certain thresholds. The discounts are what they should be charging you in the first place. It is a con just to create a feeling of a loyalty discount for staying with them, they will even give you an account manager to make you feel like your custom is so important, working out better deals but still only at the price they should be charging. Always shop around and always compare prices even from the same place you usually buy from.
@DTPaintExpert should be ashamed.
I am a humble DIYer but can’t believe their brazen disregard to customers, be it Trade or Domestic. Great video guys
I used to work for Akzo Nobel and when I was decorating the outside of my house I decided to use my staff discount in the trade centre, even with staff discount it was still cheaper at B&Q. And I know how much it costs to make the stuff,,say no more.
Now I know why everyone was buying dulux weathershield white when the local shop had it for £22.00
Moral of the story: Expect to get screwed and agree all prices before any commitment.
Pleased to see so many peoples' reactions to this. Dulux ripping-off trade and consumers is a major reality and at least this has brought it to light for many. I discovered by research their ridiculous Trade Centre prices and steer well clear. Well done James for doing the morally right thing although I suspect shock must have played some part. If I'd got over the shock, I would have refused to pay but I suspect that I may well have done the same thing.
Keep up the good work Skill Builder, Roger, James, Robin et al!!
Previous we had B&Q Crown emulsion paint at £10 when we was paying £25 direct from Crown . We could not see a difference on that but was told it was older paint and to move B&Q could sell it for that price and also crown did discount there to £13. I think they have up prices as there is a shortage on some . I try to order some my mum wanted only to find the only place i could get it from was over double the price . I really enjoyed watching this sat waiting for the answer . lol
Similar thing happened to me at Crown Decorating Centre in Gants Hill, was looking fora wood paint in coffee colour to paint the stairs. They mixed it up without telling me the price £70 + VAT for 2.5ltrs ..i was gobsmacked and had to pay it..walked down the aisle saw something exactly similar on their shelves for £28 + VAT.
Just walked out of their store cussing myself.
I've found the deep coloured Dulux trade paints (even "washable finish") marks anything that touches it once dry. Nearly every other make I've tried has a much better non transferable finish. Never doing Dulux again.
PPG johnstones/Leyland trade decorating places have been getting silly with the prices on certain products as well in recent years, given up completely with Leyland White gloss, used to be fine but then every can just seemed thinner than the last. One exterior wood project I did 5 years ago is still good, most recent one is cracked after 3 months and wrinkled after final coat despite more than 30 hours dry time in summer plus took more coats. Both projects sanded to bare wood, cleaned and primed with Leyland primer.
Had similar with Johnstones, ran out of magnolia gloss bought from The Range shop and had to get a exactly the same from the local Johnstones decorating centre at around twice the price!
Great masonry paint that.
I’ve had that issue.
I love their Dulux Diamond Eggshell. I used it on a feature wall in my new house. It cost me about £96 for a 5L tin.
Mixed colour.
Now I was told by painters I’d had my pants pulled down. And probably so. BUT what can you do? Yes you can get another brand that’s just as good. But in my head at the time I knew the results I’d get from Dulux paint so I just went for it. The prices are unbelievable compared to the likes of Homebase but they don’t have the colour range especially for Trade gloss, they don’t mix it. Joe public will pay these prices, you get your more “money isn’t a issue” customer who visit these Dulux centres. People are paying the prices. I’ve haggled them since and it’s surprising how low they can go.
But in general it’s “bend over to the front and touch ya toes”.
In Lockdown the auld faithful Cuprinol fence paint was so hard to get the prices online went up a bit. I felt like a member of the Mexican cartel when my boxes from Amazon arrived THREE WEEKS after order. 😷
I never buy their colour mixed paints as they're so over priced. I usually buy a tub of white and then colour it myself. Those paint tints made by Rentokill that B&Q used to sell were brilliant but they don't exist now. I usually buy the packs of artists acrylic paint sold at Lidl's now and then, they are brilliant for tinting paint. The red is good for all shades of pink. The black is god for al shades of grey and so on. They're about a fiver a pack. Of course you can buy them online. I use one of those mixing tools you fit in a drill you can pick one up for a quid or two. Crown is a god second paint to Dulux and a fair bit cheaper.
I would be interestrd to see an analysis if they are found to be identical that will cause a major shake up within dulux
We need an insider to blow the whistle.
Other than asking how much, in the same situation I would have walked out. A mate worked in a paint factory and said that retail brands and known brands were often the same paint. Sometimes they change the viscosity slightly for the retail brand. Some retailers insist on the same viscosity for their own brands, so you get exactly the same paint but with different labelling.
My decorator wont use Dulux, so the bits in my house he did are in Velspar & I must say (as I did a room in it) it goes on & covers so much better than Dulux. Trade card at B&Q made it fairly decent price as well. My electrician was having an argument with the trade suppliers as he can get the same thing cheaper in B&Q/Screwfix than his "special" trade price, he also had an argument with B&Q as he wanted a bathroom suite. He priced it up with retail prices - went to pay at the trade counter & it was substantially more expensive, they wouldnt match the retail deal - In the same shop!
This has had me in fits of anger also, you are not alone in this. Dulux is the biggest ripoff paint company in the world, they will try and justify these prices with technical BS but better to just walk away and use their competition products which are better anyway.
This is why no decorators i meet even use dulux anymore.
Much better stuff out there for less
Enlightening vid as usual. I've had the same bs from Brewers and Crown decorating centres. A few months ago I got some coo var floor paint from Crown/Crawley. It was off the shelf,I kept asking how much it was but the person said the plastic screens make it hard to hear. Anyhow because I was using vouchers the transaction was going through. 120 quid for 5l.,nearly fainted. I then googled other places in case I needed more. 60/80 pounds. I don't expect to get ripped off by trade centres but I'll live and learn ,Hopefully
Funny that I should see this for 1) It is a good post/video. 2) Yes all major brands of just about anything from Cars to Paint to food in the supermarket is the same but a change of label for the sellers chain of stores, etc. 3) I was in a factory a few years ago where they produce anti-freeze and windshield winter washer fluids. On the rotary conveyor systems was plastic bottles with multiple colour runs of fluid and different store brand labels. Asking a supervisor, he told me that they make all the major brands fluids for stores across the country. He also told me that every one of those containers had the identical base product and there may be two differences, The colour tint/dye and winter freeze point.
Now you can buy fluids with a little anti blade squeal additive.