BB35 Going Analog, The Old School Way!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ย. 2023
- Welcome to Interior Communications, a rarely looked at room on most warships that serves as the nervous system for the ship's communications and information systems. Because of that, it provided a number of critical functions that would cripple the ship if interrupted.
Even though the current hull repairs on Battleship Texas are funded, there are many important repairs that are not. These include restoring all of her secondary and antiaircraft weapons, including the 5" and 3" cannon, along with 40mm and 20mm weapons. This is where you can help! You can make a purchase of memorabilia or shirts and hats through the ship's online store. You can also have the unique, once in a lifetime experience of walking around and under the world's last dreadnought battleship by taking a dry dock tour. However, make it soon! The ship will be going back the water at the end of February 2024.
You can visit the ship's store using this link: store.battleshiptexas.org/col...
Make a tax deductible donation to the ship here: 112824a.blackbaudhosting.com/...
More information on the Dry Dock Tours can be found here: battleshiptdev.wpengine.com/p... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Having used motor generators when working on aircraft in hangers, that space was as bad as the boiler and engine rooms for noise and heat. Then there were the hazzards of working around all of those exposed electrical connections on a moving ship.
On a destroyer, add more extreme movement and salt spray that seemed to reach everywhere.
Holy Cow!! All those unprotected high voltage knife switches!! That aside, the level of automation and controls in a ship that's over 100 years old is just fascinating. By the way, on the drawing of the fire control system that you show, I noticed that Mr. Ford himself signed that drawing.
I was just thinking the same thing, all the unprotected knife switches. I wonder how many sailors were electrocuted accidentally in rough seas.
Something to consider. House wiring at that time consisted of bare wires and tubes mounted on ceramic insulators. Electrical safety had a long way to go in the first 20-30 years of last century.
I'm surprised at the number of unprotected switches given that was decomed in 1948.
Live front switch boards came into existence with the first attempts at commercial electricity in the late 1800s, They were common in new designs through the 1930s.
New designs in the 1940s going forward started to use dead front boards, for pretty obvious reasons. WW II had something to do with this, the military didn't like losing people and having interior systems messed up or disabled just because a lurch in the middle of combat threw a few soldiers or sailors into the face of the switch panel.
That said, live front panels were common in older buildings well into the late 1960s and even early 1970s. I'm guessing OSHA was probably eventually responsible for the elimination of the last working live front panels.
@@bobmartin4942 Um, not quite. Knob and tube wiring was done with individual wires supported every few feet on ceramic insulators, and penetrating walls in ceramic tubes, but they were insulated wires. A typical #14 wire of the day was a bit over a quarter inch in diameter. The conductor itself is only 1/16th inch, all the rest of the size was insulation.
The common insulation was to coat the wire in bitumen (pitch, tar) and then weave a fabric cover over it with cotton strands. This was actually a very robust insulation, and wires of this type made 130 years ago are usually still perfectly serviceable, though they won't meet new codes.
I am a retired elevator technician, and I would like to point out that very similar circuitry was in use there until the 1980s when high-power solid-state devices became cheap enough to use. By the 1990s, computers started replacing all the logic circuits. Elevator motion control was almost the same as battleship turret control and used all the scary exposed high-voltage switches. Westinghouse was a major player in the elevator industry.
Yeah, I sat in on a variable speed control seminar for mechanical engineers in the early 1980's. It was like watching kids on Christmas morning when a controls vendor started showing slides of digitally reproducing sine waves!
Same goes for older rail vehicles. A lot of their control is dc through switch and relay (more like contactors with many poles) logic. I had to relearn my electrics when I first took on a railway oriented job, because everything was done with dc instead of ac and electronic control that I was used to.
2:30 *I was enlisted as a Corpsman in the navy, but I had no sea time (not counting a couple of tiger cruises & when my Marines were getting a lift somewhere) & it never ceases to amaze me that people were able to find their way around & make it look so easy!* 😅
9:16 Cutler-Hammer still making electrical components to this day.
I was an Electricians Mate on three ships back in the 1960s, EMs and IC men shared the same division (E gang) on smaller ships. One ship was a WW2 LST, diesel powered with DC electricity just like you show, with live front, 'knife' switch boards. Diesel engine rooms were extremely noisy and in the tropics hot as hell, any space with a motor generator set in it was like a room with a big heater running that you couldn't turn off... Great memories...
You're the guy I want to talk to since you have direct experience with d.c. systems and live front panels. I know that Texas's power systems were isolated in that they weren't grounded, and that should be true for all ships. That being the case, and assuming there were no significant leakages to ground, was it relatively safe to touch a live conductor as long as you didn't also touch its opposite pole?
No! The ungrounded electrical system used on ships to protect the ship not you.
When one leg grounds the equipment stays running but you get a ground light . The second ground will trip it .
There is always capacitive coupling, low resistance wiring insulation etc especially the AC power.
It only takes milliamperes ti kill you .
Get a copy of EM 3&2 Usn training book.
I remember it had a good explanation.
@@josephpadula2283 One thing I remember on that LST over in Viet Nam was the shortage of power tools and parts, and how we did what ever we could to keep those old, well used, all metal antiques running and well grounded... Thanks for your reply...
I worked with someone who had served on the Ark Royal and he said that he had seen an electrical tech who just used to run his fingers down 400v terminals in a switch panel to see which were live and which weren't. He reckoned that the current only ran between adjacent fingers was probably why he managed to get away with it. If the system isn't grounded to the Hull and is isolated it would also make more sense.
I don't know if it was true but I have no reason to doubt him, and I have seen enough bizarre things in my time to not write it off.
Tom, great video as always. Future generations will always have a historical connection to the ship thanks to your amazing work!
Thanks, Bob! That's a very nice thing to say! I hope you are doing well.
I was fortunate enough to take a drydock tour a few weekends ago and loved it. Glad to see so many people taking advantage of this unique opportunity to see the ship, Keep up the good work and I enjoy your videos.
Could this ever work again? That would be awesome.
Be sure to say hi to me if you come back. Don't take too long to decide. Tours only go through the end of January and they are booking up pretty fast.
I probably already have didn't realize it. Our tour guide was an ex-Army Lt-colonel, tall fellow, who (with the others assisting) did an outstanding job. I was part of the veterans group . @@tomscotttheolderone364
Great video! It's nice to see this kind of detail that gives us some insight into the technology installed in 1914. There's no place else to see what might have been on the ships at Jutland. For WWI, USS Texas had some very leading-edge technology.
3:45 looking at all that electrical apparatus, I can only imagine what the temperature in that compartment must have been like. I imagine the hands assigned to that space went through a watch medium-well
True... those two big motor generators probably pumped out a lot of heat off of both sides when under heavy loads. There are large blower vents in the room, but I'm not too sure how well they worked if outside ambient temperatures were high.
Those "IC" Mates must have 'LOVED", the smell of 'OZONE" with the cup of coffee.
Hopefully we get to hear from you again soon!
Tom your videos are amazing. You are bringing Texas to the world!
That room would have to be one of the loudest workspaces on the ship when it was in operation!
Am privileged to be 1) a volunteer on the NEXT battleship to go to drydock (USS NEW JERSEY God willing) and 2) a witness to see USS TEXAS at Gulf Copper earlier this year.
IF you’re able…go see TEXAS! Its humbling to be able to touch the bottom of a 110+ year old ship that well and nobly served her country for 30+ years that saw ship design take huge strides…two times.
And…fun fact…if you also tour NEW JERSEY you’ll see the same gyro repeaters in different places on the ship.
You'll be able to take back the modern battleship speed record from Texas!
Thanks Tom
Awesome, Back-to-Back ship related Tom Scott uploads.
Thanks, Tom, for another outstanding episode.
a Fine example of how much has changed and been upgraded . Thank You
Outstanding information. Amazing engineering for the time. Thank you.
My dad worked for Cutler Hammer (AIL) in deer park NY during the 60's. I guess they started with power electronics for the Navy.
There are literally hundreds of Cutler Hammer controllers, switches and breakers all over the ship!
Another great video! My son and I always are excited when we see a new one. I know its a lot of work to put these together but these videos will continue to be important to future generations even after us and the ship are gone.
Another absolutely awsome and detailed video Tom thankyou as always
Another OUTSTANDING video Tom! Thank you. My comment: there sure is a lot of uninsulated electrical "stuff" in that room that better not be touched! How do you not get an electrical shock when working in that room?
That's a really good question. Exposure to shocks was far worse in the electrical distribution rooms that have really big, open switches, terminals, fuses and circuit breakers. All I can figure is that the shock hazard was reduced because it is an isolated system, meaning that nothing is grounded. There are positive and negative conductors and switches for all circuits. So, unless there is a major leak to ground, you wouldn't get much of a shock unless you fell across both positive and negative terminals. That's my guess and even if it is true, it isn't anything I'd bet my life on!
I've wondered the same thing myself. Every time I see all those exposed switches and buses I think about the snipes tending to things during high-speed manoeuvres or heavy weather.
As an ex-electricians mate, the sight of those old knife switches and fuse holders is enough to make my palms damp.
The fact that it was 120 AC and not the higher 480 I worked with did not help. 480 will throw you across a room if you get hit by it. If your lucky, you might even live through the experience. 120 will cause your muscles to contract and make you to hang on. I would not enjoy standing watch in there.
@@johntrottier1162 Hi John. Thanks for the response. Can you imagine if you touched phase to phase and got a true 480 Volt shock! OMG. I bet you worked very safely!!
I hope the other battleship guys do a similar video from the modern ships. It would be interesting how electrical safety improved over the years.
@@tomscotttheolderone364thank you for all your videos, and for pointing out the "isolated system" fact.
I guess it illustrates how standards went from "it is safe if everything works as intended"
(single fault tolerance? I don't know the correct english term)
to multiple fault tolerance, where we have many layers of safety. Doubly insulated wires in conduit pipes, protective grounding that also makes it more reliable to trip the breakers, fault detection circuits, spring- loaded wire connections instead of screws, ...
Electric engineering is a field where I have learned to accept my ignorance.
All those safety rules are there for good reasons.
And even if I think I know what's going on, I don't tempt the gods of lightning and thunder. 😀
(goes especially for cheap crimp connectors, barely functional fuse- shaped products, and old crumbling wires.)
Have nice day! Thank you.
The Texas is an awesome example of the technology of the time. Really one of the great museum ships, thank you state of Texas for preserving it.
Of course it's complexity pales in comparison to a modern warship. Which make look simple, but with thousands of microchips controlling every aspect, it's a thousand times more complicated than the Texas.
I've sailed numerous diesel electric tugs (DC/DC) and we had MG sets from one end to the other. AC and VFDs are better of course.
100% agree. I've only started reading Navy electrical manuals and articles in marine periodicals written at the beginning of the 20th century to get a good sense of state of the art back then. They had an excellent grasp of electrical theory and design, but were trying to get their arms around practical a.c. design. A couple of major articles even wrongly commented that d.c. would be the rule pretty much forever. They were not only using a.c. in power systems on battleships, but the U.S. even started using turbo electric with huge steam turbine driven ac generators as main propulsion in the Tennessee class in 1917.
@@tomscotttheolderone364 Correct me if I'm wrong but G.E. (I don't know about EMD) build their higher horsepower locomotives utilizing AC trucks/drive.
@@butziporsche8646 That's my understanding. I walked across the production floor at G.E.'s locomotive plant in Erie, PA about 20 years ago and that was what I saw sitting on open chassis'.
@@tomscotttheolderone364 I did a 2-week class at EMD (LaGrange) in 2004 but I didn't get to see any locos. They did have an H265 but I've never seen an EMD 4-stroke in operation Ours (marine side) are mostly 710s (EMDEC) and a few 645F7Bs.
@@butziporsche8646Technically, locomotives tend to use both DC and AC to power the traction motors, or at least they used to.
The diesel engine drives an AC alternator, which is then rectified into DC power, which is pomptly turned back into AC to drive the trucks. From my understanding we arrived at this setup becuse in a pre VFD world it was easier to throttle large amounts of DC current as compared to AC, but it’s easier to make a large generator that outputs AC.
Awesome video as always. Great info. Thanks.
Thank you for making this. It is very informative
Great stuff as always, THANK YOU!!
Thanks for the amazing information.
that was awesome! thanks!
I just found your channel. I wish I would have found it sooner. I love the old school technology. Some off that equipment was developed before my Dad was born. 1919. I had no idea that, that technology was that advanced that early on. Great Channel. I feel like I missed something just by the era alone. The fact is I did.
The shear complexity and design of the equipment, and their designers and builders are what keep me coming back. The big takeaway for me is that just because their technology is now obsolete doesn't mean that it wasn't genius. The following link through Google Books is a 1914 textbook on Naval Reciprocating Engines and Auxiliary Equipment. Scan through it and you'll see what I mean! www.google.com/books/edition/Naval_Reciprocating_Engines_and_Auxiliar/P3IKAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=navy+steam+and+auxiliary&pg=PA345&printsec=frontcover
I agree with everything you said. The brain power that went into it the technology and understanding of they needed to make this happen is mind boggling . May Dad was in the Manhattan Project. @@tomscotttheolderone364
Wow! That is a lot to take in. I downloaded it. I will read it. I've always Enjoyed studying this type of info. Thank You very much.@@tomscotttheolderone364
Great video.
Amazing to see how much that could be done - even with some 100 years old things -
As an IC electrician on Connie (CV64) I appreciated this video!
Thank you, it means a lot to me who "talks the talk" when I hear from veterans who "walked the walk"!
Great video Tom. By the way, can you do a short video on the training materials or manuals left on the ship that the crew would use? I would find that very interesting. Keep up the good work sir!
I am not aware of any significant collection of training materials that were left on board in the ship's archives. From what I can tell, the ship was stripped pretty bare of that type of material in preparation for donation by the Navy. However, Google Books has been my friend. They have scanned an immense amount of information in the form of Naval Academy textbooks and training manuals that I heavily rely upon.
Great indepth explanation of the equipment in the room.
How did they sync the two AC generators? I didn't see any equipment I recognized for that purpose.
Go to 6:03 to see the controller board. They sync'ed them by changing motor speed on one or both of the dc motors that drove the generator.
I know it's stupid, but when I heard them saw on line that the torpedo blisters where being removed it upset me a little bit.
It's not like she's ever going to sea again, let alone as a warship... Beauty of a ship..
They were mostly removed because their structure had failed due to corrosion caused by continual flooding over more than 70 years. It left them in a constantly flooded state that lead to deterioration of the hull's shell plating. This wasn't due to negligence, but simply because they leaked due to their light weight framing and riveted construction. In fact, they had significant leaking problems as early as the 1930's. The good news is the tops of the blisters were retained starting about 1 foot above the waterline and the rest was replaced from with new blisters that have welded construction and much heavier framing. Their design was modified to make it much easier to maintain in the future. Once back in the water, the ship will look precisely the way she should.
@@tomscotttheolderone364 I know the reasoning for their removal, but none the less don't like it..
At least on land, powered telephony usually required DC; I think it was at about 28v.
Please do fire control systems!
Sorry, but I don't really have the material to do it. The Navy removed the directors and fire control computers, so I can't create anything using my own photos or videos. That leaves creating graphics, but that is not only extremely time consuming, the results wouldn't be as good as textbooks and Navy manuals that are readily available. If you are interested, go to Google Books and search for Navy Gunnery and Navy Ordnance. Then filter the results for "full view" and you will find superb Annapolis textbooks and training manuals from about 1900 through the 1940's. That's my method for almost all of my background research.
it’s tempting to hit the switches to see what works
There's a gland that controls the desire to flip switches and turn knobs. I had it surgically removed about 20 years ago, hence my ability to access rooms like this.
I assume lots of people tried that 50-60 years ago when the most of the ship was open to public yet mostly powered and a little less supervised.
I like to believe that's how the rudder got turned on accident.
DC was standard shipboard because it could control motor speed by motor field rheostat, great for adjusting blower, pump, etc speed.
True! Big motors, like the 150 h.p. electric steering motor, were too big for rheostats, so they had banks of grid resistors that were switched in and out of the circuit using contactors and mult ipole switches. You can see that in my video in the aft steering compartment. th-cam.com/video/5s7HeKXbexk/w-d-xo.html
Can you smell the ozone created by the arch?
I don't know since I have never been around any open switches of those sizes when it opened or closed under a heavy load.
Ya, cuz you cant get near it to see it.!
The Ford rangefinder was designed by Hannibal Ford, not Henry Ford.
Thanks for pointing that out, I neglected to say that in the video and I should have. Hannibal Ford was a rare combination of mechanical and mathematical genius. Even more impressive is that he was a darn good businessman, too!
@@tomscotttheolderone364 Hey, when i was MUCH younger and a young sailor I was told the Ford rangefinders were made by Ford Aerospace....
The lies our elders tell us :)
For the gun firing circuits: Was AC used because it could be transformed up to higher voltages for the ignition circuits, or was there another reason AC was used?
I'm also guessing, but I think your assumption that it could be transformed may be part of a correct answer. There was no physical reason to use a.c. lieu of d.c. Either type is fully capable of igniting a gun primer. In fact, the backup system used batteries located in each of the turret structures, so it was d.c. The backup was always be used if a gun was locally fired by the gun pointer, who elevated the gun to aim it. It was also used if there was a misfire as part of the troubleshooting process.
You seem to have misspoke: you referred to the log as the fathometer.
Thanks for the heads-up. Where did I do that? I could certainly be wrong, but I don't recall mentioning fathometer anywhere in the video, nor do I recall seeing any circuits or instrumentation in the room associated with it.
@@tomscotttheolderone364
9:40
E: Oh, you said _pithometer_. I now feel extremely silly.
@@robertobryk4989 No worries!
Are any of the analog equipment still functional? My understanding is that USA Texas just sat as a museum for decades without maintenance on the analog systems. Do they still function if power was run through them once more?
Texas was deactivated and heavily modified to be a museum by the Navy in 1948. It wasn't done to demilitarize her, but simply to make her as durable as possible in her new life as a static display. As a result, none of the engineering or weapons systems have been functional for almost 80 years. I suppose it is possible that some instrumentation could be restored to operational status, but there isn't a lot of point to it since the vast majority was used for monitoring systems that no longer work. With the exception of the apparent wind indicator, they would simply sit there and do nothing.
Just out of curiousity....is there a video on Main Battery Plot? I have not found it if there is one.
I haven't made a video on Main Battery Plot. I have dabbled with doing one, but it is difficult without the range keepers, stable vertical and other fire control equipment that was removed by the Navy in 1948. So, while there are some really nice switchboards, the room is largely empty. An additional problem is I have an inventory of what was removed, but cannot find good references to some of the equipment.
Battleship New Jersey has a good one on their main plot, going through it position by position. It uses a lot of the same equipment as would have been on Texas and would give a rough idea of what the space would be like, minus the earlier equipment still in use from the ship's construction. That's what so interesting about Texas. The combination of equipment that's very similar to newer museum ships combined with things that no longer exist anywhere else.
What amount has state and federal contributed to rebuilding the uss Texas?
The state gave a total of $50 million for critical interior structural repairs that were performed between 2014 and 2018. They provided $35 million, then an additional $25 million for the current hull shell plating and torpedo blister replacement project. I am not aware of any federal funds being made available.
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