Nice job on adding crystals so easily, at least you make it look really easy! I watch your vids because you talk through each step, very informative. I use 'no worries' all the time, I'm in the UK 🙂
Yes that is where my mind jumped to first. I think someone said the random shape generator won't give crystals with gaps or multicolor, so maybe I would do something at the end of the series to reorder these operations to quarter, crystalise, stack, crystalise, stack crystalise etc etc with a mould to remove the limitations on my current build
Yeah, using a 3/4 shape of the required depth as a catalyst to make a quarter crystal on the top layer of a quarter result sounds like the only way to go about it. I also wonder if we could overcome the need of a hack with pins without too much brute-forcing permutations that way.
Well, it's certainly a different approach than I did. My MAM uses a matrix-like structure where shapes are input from the side and colors from the top. Pins will be added after colors as they are never painted. Crystallization is done afterwards by dropping pins on top and crystallizing them depending on what is necessary. I seriously considered looking at it by taking each quarter separately, instead of each layer. But that way, I could never add empty spaces or pins as they would either could not exist or be filled with crystals. Layers however are difficult to handle as well. My MAM now has 16 rows per layer (4 edges with 4 possible shapes), resulting in 64 rows in total. It can do 80% of the shapes, but won't be a able to do gaps and pins inside a combined shape if a layer above has crystals as with each stacker (which is necessary for adding layers) I can't protect lower layers against crystallizing. But what I do not understand is @27:45, you put direct signals into a logical gate, always resulting in just a boolean value. The rotation of any signal is totally unnecessary that way as the OR-gate does only evaluate if a signal is present or not.
yeah that logic gate thing was probably a mistake I'll realise later in the series. Your method of doing the MAM makes sense, probably more efficient than what I'm doing. If I had the time I'd take the learnings from this series and start over to make a more capable and efficient MAM. The thing about piecing from quarters, allows you to have multi-color crystals, but yeah you'd need to introduce some pretty crazy logic to do gaps in between the layers
Maybe you could make more use of the broadcast channels as global variables. Recognizing a crystal for a given layer could be broadcasted to reduce complexity in the final cutter signaling.
Just a little FYI. You can select anything or the entire thing and press I or hit the clear contents button to clear all contents including liquids. this should make changing things easier.
Have you considered using trains. The train loader auto flushes when you insert a new shape. That would be the same for the colours. Only issue you would have is going from a shape in a corner to a blank corner. Then you'd have some trash in the system. But it should still be faster
Yes, I found a technique where you can stack/destack to remove the crystal. I think I discover that, forget it, then rediscover it throughout the series 🤣
Instead of modifying recombinator logic for crystal check, you could just modify pin selector What i mean by that: If pin OR crystal, send pin That way the shape will still produce and the crystal will fill the pins
For sure would help if you just had a decider platform instead of having bypasses on the platform with the operation. Does this shape need to be stacked turn right here else just keeping going to the next step.
Are you familiar with the phrase "foot gun"? By trying to make decisions with binary logic you're making it much harder on yourself. You can use a filter to filter out the empty spaces because neither match the base shapes. And you can use the trashcan to help clean out shapes when they dont match the filter And rather than a 3x3 platform for picking colors, you can use 7 1x1 platforms inline with the space pipes and merge them into 1 output for the quarter
Analyzing shapes begins always from the top of the shape. I made a circuit to reverse that and instead of always knowing what the top layer is it has now always a bottom layer. And so builds my MAM crystals into shapez: if there's crystal in the bottom layer, my system processes the layer with a blank space. after the layer is assembled the empty space gets filled with crystal. then the next layer gets stacked onto it and does the layer have a crystal segment too it goes to the crystal generator after stacking layer 1 and 2 together and just before layer three gets dropped onto that. works fine. (shared screenshots on Twitter and Steam) 16:44 - one virtual rotate is missing. segment 4 is not segment 4. 27:35 - "collapsing the build together"? yu know, you have three layers ... you can 'fold' the circuits. -.o 28:13 - where are your dumpers? what signal do they use to verify the legitimacy of a produced tile? how do you sort unnecessary shapez out? how do you clean your production line after successfully delivering the needed amount of a requested shape? I see so many long belts and I'm seriously wondering about that. 36:07 - omfg ... waiting 'til the MAM "cleaned itself up" could give you the feeling that it takes hours. every unused shape segment and color gets processed until the right parts come in. that's super inefficient. #justsaying Ôo ... 1.6K views. I need to make my own tutorial. Ôo 46:13 - see? a mess. the first thing you HAVE to do next ... is implementing dumpers. not only for efficiency ... but for the sake of your own sanity. ^^ 50:50 - belts are not a problem ... as long as you can quickly clean them. the only thing that should not have long belts (or better pipes) are fluids, cause you can't dump them. keep the pipe gates near the painter and crystal generators to make changes ... quick. 51:08 - sorry, but 5 minutes IS horribly bad. 51:50 - "5 minutes". I see. -.-' with dumpers ... my MAM cleans itself up in about 10-20 seconds. Ôo ... overall nice work. but there's a lot of room of improvement. if you quadruple your existing 1 shape layer MAM you will kill your fps. contact me, if you wanna exchange. btw. use trains, but not too many. i had about 50 trains delivering stuff to my MAM. the game ran with 9fps. I'm at the point where I have to rethink my whole support delivery train system. not as funny as it sounds. ^^
Fiou! I just finished my MAM. Here are some of the harder shape i found to make (but can!!!): - multicolor crystal: crcgcbcw:cccmcy-- - pin below and above crystal: P-P-P-P-:crcrcrcr:P-P-P-P- - pin with empty above them: P-P-P-P-:------Ru:CuCuCuCu The order of operation had to be different than usual in order to do that!
Instead of the classic: Build a quarter->assemble in a layer->stack layers I went with: Build a quarter->stack/crystalize into a multi layer quarter->assemble into a full shape
Before i made it, i ended up first creating a virtual-MAM made entirely of wires so i could check if the logic was sound. That was super useful to handle those pesky edge cases and so on!!!
Firstly that's amazing it can make multicolor crystal shapes. And yes I had the thought to get more complex crystal shapes you would need to stack each quarter individually before assembling. Can your mam make something like this? RuRuRuRu:P-cb--cr:RuRu----:----cycw
@@DataEngineerPlays the last layer is a suspended crystal standing on nothing so i dont see how that would be possible. But even if you add a quarter to fill one of the empty spot, you can't have crystal on top of an empty quarter. If you fill the layer under or replace it by a regular shape, it should be possible!
I don't have time to test the idea out but I think you could fill a painting island with shapes then have them go in a circle so you don't need to feed in new shapes. Then have the island just pain shapes if the colour is not matching.
@@liamsmith1490 omg that's hilarious.. so they just keep re-painting the same shapes over and over... lord... that would be hilarious.... thanks for the content ideas...
@@DataEngineerPlays I do that often. I sometimes guess one then I notice i have to invert some stuff and end up screaming to myself THAT'S JUST THE OTHERONE. it's a classic
Hey, just because the game doesn't require it, doesn't mean you shouldn't challenge yourself to do it anyway! After my MAM is done I absolutely plan to extend its capability to handle multi color crystals
@@DataEngineerPlays checking top layer quadrants at every step for what direction to send them…. Maybe to be swapped with template shapes pre-fabbed to fit the current objective…. No thanks haha. Not to mention swappers technically allow crystals and pins to coexist.
God damn. It's like you're playing an entirely different game than me. This is very cool
Haha is that a good or bad thing
Nice job on adding crystals so easily, at least you make it look really easy! I watch your vids because you talk through each step, very informative. I use 'no worries' all the time, I'm in the UK 🙂
You could build each quarter up using a blank three quarter mold that you throw out before merging the quarters.
Yes that is where my mind jumped to first. I think someone said the random shape generator won't give crystals with gaps or multicolor, so maybe I would do something at the end of the series to reorder these operations to quarter, crystalise, stack, crystalise, stack crystalise etc etc with a mould to remove the limitations on my current build
Yeah, using a 3/4 shape of the required depth as a catalyst to make a quarter crystal on the top layer of a quarter result sounds like the only way to go about it. I also wonder if we could overcome the need of a hack with pins without too much brute-forcing permutations that way.
Well, it's certainly a different approach than I did. My MAM uses a matrix-like structure where shapes are input from the side and colors from the top. Pins will be added after colors as they are never painted. Crystallization is done afterwards by dropping pins on top and crystallizing them depending on what is necessary.
I seriously considered looking at it by taking each quarter separately, instead of each layer. But that way, I could never add empty spaces or pins as they would either could not exist or be filled with crystals. Layers however are difficult to handle as well. My MAM now has 16 rows per layer (4 edges with 4 possible shapes), resulting in 64 rows in total.
It can do 80% of the shapes, but won't be a able to do gaps and pins inside a combined shape if a layer above has crystals as with each stacker (which is necessary for adding layers) I can't protect lower layers against crystallizing.
But what I do not understand is @27:45, you put direct signals into a logical gate, always resulting in just a boolean value. The rotation of any signal is totally unnecessary that way as the OR-gate does only evaluate if a signal is present or not.
yeah that logic gate thing was probably a mistake I'll realise later in the series. Your method of doing the MAM makes sense, probably more efficient than what I'm doing. If I had the time I'd take the learnings from this series and start over to make a more capable and efficient MAM. The thing about piecing from quarters, allows you to have multi-color crystals, but yeah you'd need to introduce some pretty crazy logic to do gaps in between the layers
@@DataEngineerPlays Believe me, it`s worth it. It is so satisfying to watch it doing its job. Thanks again for the tutorial!
Maybe you could make more use of the broadcast channels as global variables. Recognizing a crystal for a given layer could be broadcasted to reduce complexity in the final cutter signaling.
I think I had that thought back in EP01. But recognising that the broadcast only has 7 channels, 4 of which I plan to use to broadcast the 4 layers
Just a little FYI. You can select anything or the entire thing and press I or hit the clear contents button to clear all contents including liquids. this should make changing things easier.
Have you considered using trains. The train loader auto flushes when you insert a new shape. That would be the same for the colours. Only issue you would have is going from a shape in a corner to a blank corner. Then you'd have some trash in the system. But it should still be faster
The trains episode comes out tonight! Not sure if I did it correctly but yes I stage all the inputs for the MAM via train
When making a version of the layer without the crystal, you can just use the virtual stacker, and it will virtually shatter the crystal quarters.
Yes, I found a technique where you can stack/destack to remove the crystal. I think I discover that, forget it, then rediscover it throughout the series 🤣
Instead of modifying recombinator logic for crystal check, you could just modify pin selector
What i mean by that: If pin OR crystal, send pin
That way the shape will still produce and the crystal will fill the pins
For sure would help if you just had a decider platform instead of having bypasses on the platform with the operation. Does this shape need to be stacked turn right here else just keeping going to the next step.
yep that would be clever to isolate the logic from the operation
Are you familiar with the phrase "foot gun"? By trying to make decisions with binary logic you're making it much harder on yourself. You can use a filter to filter out the empty spaces because neither match the base shapes. And you can use the trashcan to help clean out shapes when they dont match the filter
And rather than a 3x3 platform for picking colors, you can use 7 1x1 platforms inline with the space pipes and merge them into 1 output for the quarter
Thanks for the tips! In episode 8 and 9 I completely gut and redesign and reorder the color picking/shape selection area. Stay tuned!
This is super cool.
Analyzing shapes begins always from the top of the shape. I made a circuit to reverse that and instead of always knowing what the top layer is it has now always a bottom layer. And so builds my MAM crystals into shapez: if there's crystal in the bottom layer, my system processes the layer with a blank space. after the layer is assembled the empty space gets filled with crystal. then the next layer gets stacked onto it and does the layer have a crystal segment too it goes to the crystal generator after stacking layer 1 and 2 together and just before layer three gets dropped onto that. works fine. (shared screenshots on Twitter and Steam)
16:44 - one virtual rotate is missing. segment 4 is not segment 4.
27:35 - "collapsing the build together"? yu know, you have three layers ... you can 'fold' the circuits. -.o
28:13 - where are your dumpers? what signal do they use to verify the legitimacy of a produced tile? how do you sort unnecessary shapez out? how do you clean your production line after successfully delivering the needed amount of a requested shape? I see so many long belts and I'm seriously wondering about that.
36:07 - omfg ... waiting 'til the MAM "cleaned itself up" could give you the feeling that it takes hours. every unused shape segment and color gets processed until the right parts come in. that's super inefficient. #justsaying Ôo
...
1.6K views. I need to make my own tutorial. Ôo
46:13 - see? a mess. the first thing you HAVE to do next ... is implementing dumpers. not only for efficiency ... but for the sake of your own sanity. ^^
50:50 - belts are not a problem ... as long as you can quickly clean them. the only thing that should not have long belts (or better pipes) are fluids, cause you can't dump them. keep the pipe gates near the painter and crystal generators to make changes ... quick.
51:08 - sorry, but 5 minutes IS horribly bad.
51:50 - "5 minutes". I see. -.-'
with dumpers ... my MAM cleans itself up in about 10-20 seconds. Ôo
...
overall nice work. but there's a lot of room of improvement. if you quadruple your existing 1 shape layer MAM you will kill your fps. contact me, if you wanna exchange. btw. use trains, but not too many. i had about 50 trains delivering stuff to my MAM. the game ran with 9fps. I'm at the point where I have to rethink my whole support delivery train system. not as funny as it sounds. ^^
Fiou! I just finished my MAM. Here are some of the harder shape i found to make (but can!!!):
- multicolor crystal:
crcgcbcw:cccmcy--
- pin below and above crystal:
P-P-P-P-:crcrcrcr:P-P-P-P-
- pin with empty above them:
P-P-P-P-:------Ru:CuCuCuCu
The order of operation had to be different than usual in order to do that!
Instead of the classic:
Build a quarter->assemble in a layer->stack layers
I went with:
Build a quarter->stack/crystalize into a multi layer quarter->assemble into a full shape
This way you never break a crystal as you only stack shape on top of it, then reassemble with swappers
Before i made it, i ended up first creating a virtual-MAM made entirely of wires so i could check if the logic was sound. That was super useful to handle those pesky edge cases and so on!!!
Firstly that's amazing it can make multicolor crystal shapes. And yes I had the thought to get more complex crystal shapes you would need to stack each quarter individually before assembling.
Can your mam make something like this? RuRuRuRu:P-cb--cr:RuRu----:----cycw
@@DataEngineerPlays the last layer is a suspended crystal standing on nothing so i dont see how that would be possible. But even if you add a quarter to fill one of the empty spot, you can't have crystal on top of an empty quarter. If you fill the layer under or replace it by a regular shape, it should be possible!
i feel like the only way we can flush paint lines is to run a painting setup purely to use the paint and bin it.
That's clever... but also... ew....
@@DataEngineerPlays i agree ew.
let us hope the developers give us a new tool for clearing pipes.
I don't have time to test the idea out but I think you could fill a painting island with shapes then have them go in a circle so you don't need to feed in new shapes.
Then have the island just pain shapes if the colour is not matching.
@@liamsmith1490 omg that's hilarious.. so they just keep re-painting the same shapes over and over... lord... that would be hilarious.... thanks for the content ideas...
not in and not out in an and is an or gate
yes that makes perfect sense XD
@@DataEngineerPlays I do that often.
I sometimes guess one then I notice i have to invert some stuff and end up screaming to myself THAT'S JUST THE OTHERONE.
it's a classic
There wont ever be more than one color crystal in one layer
I’ve been looking for this answer. BIG sigh of relief. I was about to flood my world with wire and call it a day.
I am not quite far enough along to find out myself but I have been worried about multiple color crystals on the first layer as well.
Hey, just because the game doesn't require it, doesn't mean you shouldn't challenge yourself to do it anyway! After my MAM is done I absolutely plan to extend its capability to handle multi color crystals
@@DataEngineerPlays for sure let's you play with more advanced logic
@@DataEngineerPlays checking top layer quadrants at every step for what direction to send them…. Maybe to be swapped with template shapes pre-fabbed to fit the current objective…. No thanks haha. Not to mention swappers technically allow crystals and pins to coexist.