Better Value Than Motion? This $300 upgrade is INCREDIBLE! ButtKicker Gamer PLUS Long Term Review
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- If you're missing 'connection' to your car in your sim setup, I think this might be what you're looking for. This new ButtKicker has USB connectivity so you can say goodbye to messy audio cables and the need for additional sound cards.
I've been using 2 of them for MONTHS now. In this video I look at setup, drawbacks, cheaper alternatives and most importantly, I tell you (and try to show you) how it feels.
As always I appreciate your clicks and 'likes' on the video ❤️
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Start: 0:00
1. Introduction: 0:43
2. First Impressions: 3:02
3. Price: 4:07
4. Installation - Hardware: 5:08
5. Installation via sound card: 7:37
6. Installation via USB-C: 9:03
7. How it feels: 10:23
8. Things to consider: 11:22
9. Alternatives: 13:37
10: Final thought: 15:09
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Speaking as someone with a motion system that integrates haptics (Sigma Integrale DK2), I'll have to agree that the haptic feedback is just as important as motion in regards to immersion. I tried turning off the haptics and tried motion only and the sensation definitely lacked the depth that the haptics provided. I think a haptic feedback system definitely gives more value since it's more than 10x cheaper than a motion system. That being said, I still wouldn't give up the motion part. It's just too much fun :)
Excellent comment. And you understood the point I am making. Motion can be great fun, but I have never felt motion and thought to myself that I need it in order to be as quick as possible. It’s just a bit of fun for me where haptics like this really do add that connection to the car that I miss. Different strokes for different folks though :)
May I ask your impressions of the Sigma system? Seems like one of the more affordable systems, and I am considering going that direction since it would probably be a good addition to my VR sim setup. However, I still think that motion systems are a bit overpriced atm (niche) .
I have both as well, the DK2 and a diy shaker setup. The shaker set up costs $300 and feels like it adds $3,000 in value. The DK2 cost almost $6k and felt like it improved the experience by like $600. I still enjoy using it and they are constantly improving the product but overall, it just doesn't add nearly what a good haptic system does. Edit: To be clear, I wouldn't give up my motion setup, it adds a fun factor that is hard to put a finger on. If your concern is immersion, it's great. If you're just hunting for laptime, stick with haptics.
Based on what you said, and what I'm hearing from others, I'm designing a short travel motion rig with haptics as a best of both worlds. I'm thinking a really fast/violent 60mm of travel + haptics would be a good setup. Thoughts?
I don’t have motion but I use Somagic’s haptics in my pedals. The brake haptic alone actually took a full 1.5s off my laps on Spa in iRacing using the Skippie. YMMV but it was a very notable improvement. The throttle haptic only improved my lap over lap consistency, which helps a lot in-race.
I have the Buttkicker gamer 2 under my seat and the odd times I forget to turn the volume up and therefore no vibrations, I can instantly tell there’s something wrong with my rig. Going over rumble strips and kerbs, changing gears and wheel slip are my favourite sensations, they give my rig life and I get sensations going through my spine now and not just through my arms with the ffb from my wheelbase. If you love haptics, it’s a must buy!
I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks for the comment. I completely agree
Have you tried Next Level Racing HF8 Haptic Pad ?
I cannot describe enough how the best upgrade Ive ever made was putting small bass shaker on the brake pedel. So key for locking/abs. I feel utterly lost when i forget to turn it on now...
Awesome yeah I agree!
That’s a great idea what one did you buy? Can you isolate it to just bake telemetry with sim racing studio or something?
@@tp3293google sim3d, or just look up sim pedal rumble motors
Does it use telemetry from Simhub?
@@adz951Dayton Audio Puck and yes, they get telemetry from Simhub.
The enthusiasm shown in this review is no exaggeration. The BK is such a game changer, once you have one you'll never want to race without it. For me personally it's just as vital as FFB.
Yeah I’m glad people see the benefit and see that I’m just pouring my feelings out
I had a subwoofer strapped to the bottom of my seat facing up. That also was pretty awesome. You could feel the rumbles over the surface.
i bought a pair of transducers and had an old home theatre amplifier laying around to do the same thing for approx $80 australian dollars. Wired them up in series and use Simhib software so control the output so the transducers have approx 200W RMS capability
This right here. There is almost no difference and it's quarter the cost. BUttkicker works great...but it's vastly overpriced for doing something a 40 dollar amp from Amazon and a Base Transducer do.
Shoutout to Sim3D as a good alternative as well. I use 4 of their motors, 2 on pedals and 2 on seat to simulate front and rear axles. I've not used a buttkicker setup so can't compare but they do the job for me and are quiet enough not to wake kids up etc
I bought 9 of the cheapo 50 watt transducers from a closing business , installed 4 and kept 5 of em for spares when they eventually fail. Hooked up to 2 30 watt amps i rarely have the chance to run them over 50% volume at my apartment before the vibrations spill from the rig to the floor.
I bought those sound dampening patches they use under washing machine legs. I placed my entire rig on 4 of those. Worked well.
Also, I live in a apartment, I run volume on 10 on the amp sometimes all night long. You can barely hear it in the next room. Then during the day I run it on 18 volume, which is just perfect to feel everything and shake some stuff already. In either scenarios, not an issue.
Only thing I don't like about it is there is a tiny bit of latency and it's very hard to set it up in simhub. If you use the automatic calibration (which "learns your driving style") , you would need separate profiles for different tracks and cars. As an example, if you go from Monza to Spa, the tire slip will start shaking you from the slightest wheel movement already. I have this turned off.
It seems like a neat idea, something you could attach to your wheelstand to feel some of the surfaces, I don't suppose these can be used to give a little feeling to the clutch as you interact with the bite point. Not a big deal most of the time, but sometimes would be handy when pulling off, especially without traction control.
Nice video, good info. Was nice to see the S13 out yesterday :)
hahaha nice one :D Were you at cars and coffee?
@@LaurenceDusoswa yeah, were a load of ppl out. Got lucky with the weather too.
"that loose T nut you were too lazy to remove" Laurence I feel personally attacked 😂😂
Great review! It's unbelievable that hapticonnect can't support multiple discrete shakers, really valid criticism.
I feel like you really went above and beyond to explain the nature of your collaboration with Buttkicker, as it seems trendy at the moment to tear creators apart - but it must be said, these videos take heart and love and energy to put together and you're killing it. Keep up the good work ❤
I do like the mounting solution of these new ones with the ability to mount directly to the seat which IMO greatly improves the experience. I have a gamer 2 which is now redundant compared to 2xBST 1 transducers drilled to the back and bottom of the seat controlled via Simhub
Sell the gamer 2. Lots of people want them and can’t find them anywhere
@LaurenceDusoswa holding off in the hope my son wants to get into the hobby.
thx for this review. You help me make up my mind!
Awesome ❤️ glad it helped
Great review. Sound haptics are terrific. And if they are used properly, they seeming can even potentially make the average sim-racer (not e-racer) a touch faster. Motion is more fun but all the evidence seems clear that it’ll make you slower. These things are always a trade off. Perhaps someday they won’t be…
Yep I swear by haptics!
That’s a lovely Irish accent you’ve got there, friend, and what an excellent review. I’ve been on the fence about Buttkicker as I couldn’t tell how well it would actually work for sim racing and whether it would be better to just hold out for motion boxes. This helped immensely thank you so much! I think a Buttkicker could be a nice middle ground between no haptic feedback and full motion.
Haha thanks :D These are definitely a great solution and they really add a lot to your sim experience
I’m going h3 motion and buttkckers
Great video. I have integrated vibration haptics into my (VERY basic and janky) rig/setup. It's AWESOME... well worth the effort.
What was it your using ? These buttkickers ?
@@saren6538 Hi! Actually, no - it’s an older device called thr Aura InterAct. Basically, a rumble pack that in ‘backpack’ form.
;)
My buttkicker 2 amp failed a little bit over a year ago. As it turns out it was the bridge rectifier part of the circuitry. After repair its been working flawlessly since.
I 100% AGREE WITH YOU! I have a gamer pro in the rear and plus in the front and while playing ACC I feel the suspension and feel like I am actually moving.
also, I just heard you say no ability to differentiate front/rear? mine is set up as Gamer Pro rear and PLus front and they do act individually
With Hapticonnect? Maybe I missed something? I know it’s possible with Simhub.
Yep it’s incredible in ACC for feeling ABS especially.
@@LaurenceDusoswa You can differentiate 'sides' in the hapticonnect settings.
@@thijsazerty692 the setting is definitely not obvious if I missed it during the 6 weeks that I used Hapticonnect exclusively 😅😅😅
Amazon shakers and cheap soundcard/amp works great too. You have have 4 for the price of the buttkicker. I wouldnt ever be without my shakers now.
I have the older version of this and bolted it directly yo the bottom of my seat (warning be careful with the volume) I have since moved to the the rear rig frame and prefer the sensation. Bolted to the fibreglass seat I found the effect more like a buzzing than solid vibration
great comment! good info for people
Thanks for the tip, I will have to try it. I have it bolted to my seat bottom and struggle to find a happy medium for volume.
Yes though it was a good idea and I did not have the proper bracket at the time. But i found it just way too much. Less is def more with these things or it just turns into an annoying mess@@markrimkus200
Very nice content, well done Sir!
Thanks!!!
Haptics are SUPER important.
That being said, i would not compare to motion systems, they are indeed in a all diferent league, as anyone who tried or own them, knows it.
So in conclusion, haptics like this (or cheaper similar ones), are indeed a HUGE addon to anyone in the Sim world, and if price it's a limit factor for entering the Motion world, this is the perfect alternative...even more perfect (for those who can afford), it's to have them together with Motion system...that is near Sim Heaven!
Cheers for the review
Best would be if there was a local Simshop where you can get hands on the actual stuff. Test various DDs, Loadcell brakes, rigs, VR, wheels, motion, buttkicker and so on
Local sim shops are great for finding out about this stuff for sure. But I would fear that people try the product and just go online and buy it instead of supporting that shop. I dunno
I would love this. I want to build a proper rig that does everything I need but have no idea where to start to get it right.
@@LaurenceDusoswaI agree. You could charge a lot for the testing and then consider that money if you buy from the shop.
Nobsound amp and 2x Dayton pucks awesome 💯😎
Hell, I just got my dual Dayton 16ohm and nobsounds Amp. Wow this makes a difference..
No more guessing if the rear landed on a rumble strip. In F4 i can now tell when the rear wheels are slipping after sending it hard 😅
Haptic fees back is a 100% needed upgrade 😊
I have a buttkicker gamer 2 on an office chair with a gt omega apex stand with fanatec dd….game changer 😊
I’ve lost sound mid race before & was still able to drive bc of the Buttkicker/haptics feedback.
Haptics are Greater than Motion because most Motion is way over exaggerated. I have a Wooden RSR-21 rig and it's A Game Changer in Immersion
Yeah if I could only have one I’d choose the transducers over motion actuators every time
I would buy this in a flash if I didn't live in a smallish house with my rig in the upstairs box room. Good review
Yeah they can be noisy. I’ve never used one in an upstairs room but I imagine the vibrations would travel
I have 2 x Gamer2 and 1 x LFE running from GPU and the Monitor outs. Sort of disappointed they got rid of the lever as it does seem increase the strength of gamer2's over my lfe. I use Simhub because I can get consistent effects across multiple games. iRacing LFE is better for that game though but Simhub gives you far more control of settings with multiple BK's. BK sell isolation feet that come in the LFE kits, that together with soundproof mat usually works for most. All three of my original Amps still good except for one failed power LED. I see most people explode them not understanding how the clipping indicator or auto cut-off works.
This is an exceptionally good comment. Thanks for taking the time and sharing your insight ❤️
thanks for the video! What are your thought of combining motion systems and buttkicker?
Excellent idea! Having motion without additional haptics is not the same :)
I don’t think I could go without mine now especially in iRacing that seems to lack feel compared to other sims to begin with. I did mark the mounting pattern on the bottom of my seat and drilled it out so I could mount it directly and it’s MUCH more pronounced now. I’d recommend anyone doing it if they can.
Nice! Agreed
I have often considered getting these, but im put off because it requires multiple amps connected to mutiple tranducers. Although the opportunity to annoy my downstairs neighbour is incredibly tempting.
hahaha if you find yourself with the spare cash, do it! They're honestly right up there on my sim rig upgrade recommendations list
@@LaurenceDusoswaYou can daisy chain the buttkickers together.
Very informative, would you be so kind as to consider creating a video and setting up and purchasing pedal pucks?
One time you sould compare it to the biggest competitors, namely Dayton-Audio and Aura, AND all off these when mounted on a Rig with the Slip-Angel Isolators (on 4 corners) or the RaceBass Isolators (on seat and pedaltray). There are no real test/comparison for these great sollutions. The RaceBass and especially the Slip-Angle solution should, acording to the sources I found, greatly reduces noise while upgrade the feel even further. And the prices for thees solutions are reasonable to.
I've owned one for three years now ....I don't like playing my racing or driving games without it......the other benefit is, it still enhancing anything you listen too(other games especially war games, movies.) Please beware this thing will shake your house SERIOUSLY...If you live in an apartment might wanna make sure you're on the first floor trust me
Yep 100%! Thanks for the comment. It really is an incredible investment
I originally used the buttkicker gamer 2, but the bass shaker died. I replaced it with a 300 watt Dayton BST 300EX while continuing to use the Buttkicker gamer 2 amp. All I can say is wow! The Dayton is much more powerful than the gamer 2. I do not know how it compares to this new buttkicker, but the gamer 2 was always underpowered and was always shutting off from overheating. I am thinking of getting another Dayton and getting a 4 channel amp. Combined, it will be cheaper than the single Buttkicker option.
Do you know if you’re able to isolate the four transducers with the Dayton amp/software?
@@christopher_hopper simhub will allow you to isolate each channel. There are some youtube videos demonstrating various techniques.
@@christopher_hopper Get a 5.1 or 7.1 external sound card. Also get 2 channel amps. Each amp can power 2 transducers. Each amp will then plug into the sound card. You can plug in multiple amps into your external sound card. You can then control each channel in sim hub. Doing this, you can control 6 transducers.
Hey man. Thanks for the review. Wondering how you find this compared to the Gamer 2? I have a Gamer 2 now and I love it but wondering if it’s worth the upgrade? Thanks
This seems to be a little more refined, as mentioned in the video. I wouldn’t say it’s worth the upgrade but going from one haptic motor to 2 is a great upgrade
I'm definitely first today, I've always wanted to try something like this.
Great review LD ❤
Cheater!
hahaha yep... you win :D
haha sorry man! I send out a pre-release link to my paying channel members these days
@@LaurenceDusoswa I know! Just joking lol
How much leccy does one of these use? Just for those that worry about overloading their smart meters. 😅
hahaha. They're low wattage amps :) But anything that causes movement like this will use quite a bit of electricity :p
Haptics are super important, including as a complement to motion. But if I had to pick between the two, haptics would lose.
I agree. A good motion system (not a seat mover) is miles beyond any good haptics system. That said, a good motion system also includes haptic qualities. And while motion may not make you quicker, and could actually make you slower if you have it over tuned, it still brings a level of immersion that no other accessory other than a direct drive, can provide.
How i see the conversation going with the missus:
"Honey, what is this 300$ payment?"
"huuhhh... Yeah! It was me, don't worry about it."
"Yeah, but 300$? What for!?"
"It's a gaming thing... Nevermind..."
"A gaming thing!? Again??? Let me see it!.......... A BUTTKICKER!? You bouta thing called a buttkicker for 300$?"
"Yeah i can feel the car now..."
"WHAT CAR? YOU ARE IN THE LIVING ROOOOMAAAAA!"
"Yeah well i can feel it better now... Just... Whatever... I'll just return it."
Hahahahahahaha this comment made me spit out my tea 😂😂😂
Interesting . Good review .
If money is no object, then I can't see how it would be truly better than a full motion system. Sorry !
I'll admit , I haven't tried either. I only have a reasonable Thrustmaster T300RS wheel and LCM pedals so far. So I could be talking drivel.
However for most people, money is an object, and if it gets 90% of what full motion does, then it does sound worthwhile. It looks to be about 1/10th of the price of a full motion system.
I don't have the £4k for a full motion system, so I'm definitely "interested" . I need to try both, somehow ...
Motion doesn’t make anyone quicker. It’s more fun. But haptics like this give you the perfect amount of into your make you quicker.
Laurence, would you say its worth upgrading from an older gamer 2 to this?
While I love my transducers they were not as big as going from a belt driven too a SC2 pro.
Also their not like rumble motors as those are completely different technologies. These are basically a speaker with the cone missing where as a rumble motor uses a small motor and magnets.
How would you compare the butt-kicker to the U-shake6? Unlike the butt-kicker, the U-Shake6 is a sitting pad with six speakers embedded throughout the pad to simulate the vibration from different parts of the car.
I haven’t used the ushake so can’t compare unfortunately :(
10:36 Be honest, you were hoping one of the motion companies were gonna say "Oh yeah, we'll send you our motion sim for free so you can see how much better a motion rig is." Can't blame you for trying.
QUESTION: Does it generate a lot of heat? My room gets very hot so does this affect too much?
I have 4 buttkicker gamer 2's on my rig. Best transducers by far. Nothing else comes close to the range these things produce. They can also simultaneously produce multipl effects due to their wide range. They are more like musical instruments compared to other transducers. They are also virtually indestructible. I had the Dayton BST-1 before. They are nowhere near as powerful as the Buttkicker and Ive had 3 fail over several years. While the buttkickers are still going strong.
Nice! Great to have this perspective too. Thanks for sharing ❤️
Do you mean, it is so worth it to have even 5Hz on the low end of spectrum??? Did the high end help you too?
You think two, one front one back, would be enough to feel the immersion? For those that can't afford 4 lol
I have one gamer 2 and in the low frequencies it is rattling so bad... I tried some rubber mat, some hot glue... but it doesn't really fix the problem. And it often shuts off because of overheating. But I love this thing 😀but perhaps someone can give me some ideas to fix it.
This thing is not only great for sim racing, it also is so cool with shooters like Borderlands, Doom... or Starfield. Flying and shooting at the same time! But I use a cinema two-seater...
Can u review that crow crossing the road? Top skill, lot's of R&D, 8.2/10.
LO... I am still trying to decide on a basic setup (wheel base, wheel, pedals) and know this is the next step. I am wondering how this compares to the SRS U-Shake 6. With the increased price of the Buttkicker Gamer PLUS the price difference has narrowed. so IDK... sitting on seat pad w/6 transducers or 1 or 2 mounted to a rig? Any thoughts or experiences anyone? Also waiting on the review of the P1000 pedals. The few reviews there are on those make it seem like its could a pretty sweet setup but idk. Wondering if those are more of the diminishing returns over something like the Fantec CSL Elites and worth the difference. Have you tried the Campus upper tier pedals? Looking for input from anyone who has tried the Simagic P1000 with or without the haptics and/or the Cammus LC100 pedals. Thanks.
I haven’t tried the cammus pedals or the srs u-shake. Sorry :) will let you know about the p1000 in the next week or so
Thanks. I really like your style of reviews. BTW do you know if there are lot of sales on sim gear around Black Friday or Cyber Monday? @@LaurenceDusoswa
Man my 08 cobalt ss cost less than a full sim setup…. That’s sad… I’ve always wanted to setup a full rig but I might be able to eventually swing a used Amazon g923 lol
Its pretty easy to buy a race car or kart for the same price as a high end sim rig. Its the costs for literally everything else that gets ya lol.
Gamer plus owner here: it's really good, I like the extra immersion a lot. But still think this set is a bit (10-25%) overpriced (EU price). Also I've experienced overheating in long sessions. So now, when I know it's gonna be a long session, I point a fan on the transducer during short breaks.
I purchased small clip on usb fans that I keep on my transducers. Made a world of difference for me.
and here am i with a $60 version of the buttkicker that does the same thing.
OH please post your setup details! People would LOVE to know. Seriously
Second that, let's hear it!
@@twostorywood
Seems like any time I put part names TH-cam removes my post. I did contact Laurence and told him.
C'mon, you can't say that and not share any details!
@@adz951
Every time I do it’s gets removed from TH-cam. Even if I link a channel it gets removed. I think if the link is removed Laurence may need to change his channel rules to allow TH-cam links.
I have an XBox X that is hooked up to my Audio system with 5.1 surround sound. Can the Buttkicker be plugged directly into my sound system? Or even my XBox via usb?
I’m not sure about the console setup side of things
LD, just like the opening videos and whatnot, I would love to see some “live” video instead of voice over for your videos. Not that I dislike your reviews, they’re fantastic, but I feel it could be more engaging. See you on the stream tomorrow though! (Today for you)
Yep I usually do a first impressions video that gives loads of driving action. But there’s nothing to see with this product which makes it difficult and also, I have had buttkickers for years so it wouldn’t have been my proper first impressions. All my long term reviews are voiced over :)
Friend has one for every tire. I use one for my flight sim.
Nice! Is it good for flight sim?
@@LaurenceDusoswa Oh yeah. I use it on DCS and going down the taxiway you can feel the bumps. You get the feeling of stalling before you stall, the guns firing, and even a missile coming off the jet.
Damn costs 300 these days? I bought it for 200 something a couple of years ago. Here is my long run review with it. It works absolutely amazing for 2 to 3 years. After that the transducer cylinder gets wider. Gets eaten by the piston inside. There will be a big gap between cilinder and the piston. This will cause side to side movement and the piston hitting the walls of the cilinder. Causing unbearable noise. Now you need a new transducer. I don't use it because I went for 4 actuators motion setup. But when it works it's great. Only use it with simbub. I have a new transducer if I ever want to build a new rig.
Do you have a Ps5? Wonder if this work by connecting the USB connection on your Ps5? And you can still use a USB dongle headset at the same time on Ps5?
You'd need to check the documentation. The gamer2 could be used with consoles but it wasn't straight forward and required an additional connector which isn't always possible to add to system if you were running amp or switcher.
I don’t have a PS5, no. Sorry :) maybe others can help
I had 2 bad shakers on my bucket seat and it was great. Then i changed rig, and added motion system (simrig sr2). Many months later the shakers are sleeping on the shelf, and i don't feel the need to install them again any time soon. Motion is bringing what shakers were bringing, and 1000x more. So yes motion is very expensive, but its a complete different league
Thanks for a very informative video. I have the 150 watt, Gamer Pro on the way, (arriving next week). I use real automotive seats in the custom-built rigs I have ...one for flying & one for racing. I plan to wedge it in the under-seat-compartments wrapped in foam. Does the transducer need air-cooling ...does it get very hot?
difference in price (mentioned being up to 30%) is not caused by voltage but sales tax. In europe (most if not all countries uses 230v) tax is included in price (20-25%) while in us and a (110v)- not. Increased voltage and higher price is just a coincidence.
This is correct. Although at times the price is a massive amount higher too so the main message is to shop around.
sold, uk recomendations?
They have resellers listed on their site. I don’t really have a favourite
Laurence, sorry to ask this here but if I were to not go any higher than 15Nm for peak torque which is what the Alpha is rated at, would there be any benefit to going with the Alpha U still? e.g. would there still be any improvement to the details of the ffb or something else, when going max 15Nm on the Alpha and Alpha U? Many thanks in advance if you can help me with this.
I'd say it depends on the max continuous torque of the motor. The maximum torque label advertised for a wheel base is usually the stall or holding torque. This is basically the amount of torque you would have to force on the wheel with your hands to stop it dead from turning if it were trying to spin in one direction at max power). What really matters however, is the continuous torque or CT. This is the amount of actual power it has at any given moment, (in addition, the ability of the motor to ramp this up instantaneously in milliseconds is called its "slew rate". These two things affect the detail of the FFB "under pressure" from your hands as well as other effects trying to run at the same time.
So, the higher the CT and Slew Rate, the more detailed and smoother the wheel is. As a general rule, higher Stall Torque usually indicates high CT torque (usually its about half to two thirds the stall torque on a top end wheel base). This is why its always a good idea in general to set the torque at near max in the Windows controller driver, then turn it down in the game itself if its too heavy.
The Simagic Alpha is rated around 15nm max for holding torque, so I would assume (without actual numbers from Simagic) that the wheel's actual usable torque or CT is about 7 to 8nm. Turning down the max torque will also turn this down as well, which would directly affect the wheel's detail and feel under pressure. (whether in the driver, or comparing against two different powered bases)
Yes. Higher powered wheels have a higher dynamic range. Generally more power means more recognisable detail.
@@fredsas12 omg...thank you so much for your reply and the level of detail explaining everything. My mind is literally blown. So adjusting the peak torque level in the driver is just adjusting the total power output and since the CT point is at a fixed ratio of the total power output (usually about 1/2 to 2/3) you will also shift down the CT point proportionally as you shift down the peak torque in the driver. Here's a question....is there a way to keep the power output at maximum so as to have the highest CT possible but then set the torque output limit to be where the CT is?
I can set the ingame ffb gain lower so as to force the range of torque outputs whilst normal driving to operate in the lower half of the total torque range (i.e. the CT range) BUT (before this wonderful knowledge you've given me) I normally like to set the ingame ffb gain as high as possible so that the clipping point is just above areas of normal driving that experience peak steering forces and then lower the peak torque in the driver to set peak forces experienced at the wheel to what I'm comfortable with. That way if I should crash, I don't get a dangerous and uncomfortable torque spike out of my ffb wheel. But if I adopt this alternative arrangement (i.e. setting driver ffb to max and lowering the ingame ffb gain), I will then be setting myself with a dangerous potential especially if I get the alpha U (which given what you've now explained, I really would prefer to get over the Alpha now). You wouldn't happen to know of a solution to this problem?
@@LaurenceDusoswa thank you too! :)
@@DrR1pper If you turn the down FFB strength in game, it should reduce all game forces down (including crash/jerk forces), some games have an option to boost small or lower powered force effects to ensure that all details is not lost from the "volume" being to low. But you should remember that if you are wanting to purchase a higher strength FFB wheel, then that already comes with greater "injury" potential. Unless your wheel driver software has an option to adjust its "slew rate" independently of its max "stall" torque rate, then it will be simply something that you will have to learn to deal with. The CT rate is effectively tied to the max stall torque rate in most motors (regardless of whether they are FFB wheels, industrial motors or even car engines. - Think of a car's accelerator pedal; In order reach max rpm, you push the pedal 100% and the engine immediately revs to max and hits the limiter (this is max slew rate), you push the pedal 20% down and revs to max rpm, but this time much more lazily, but it still reaches max RPM.. However, give the engine actual work to do, i.e.; putting it into gear and driving, and the engine will not be able to achieve max rpm at 20% vs 100% throttle. (This is usable CT torque).
Some motors can do what you are suggesting because they have superior electronics (CPUs) and software governing their variables, so maybe the motor can put out near max CT torque for a "given load" whilst keeping the max Stall Torque down. This is very unusual and would only be found in the most expensive wheel bases (like Asetek or Simucube). Basically any wheel base that has an adjustable "slew rate" should be able to do so in conjunction with anti jerk-whip/damping software controls. I'm not really familiar with Simagic wheels or software, so you would probably actually have more info on the software on that aspect.
Is this worth it if you only have a gaming chair? They’re around 500 euros where I live :(
where would i mount this on this wheel stand 2.0 using my own chair? under the pedals? currently using the club sport v3 inverted which i think have their own haptics but are understated.
I would mount it as close to your butt as possible. That’s where you get the most value from it
@@LaurenceDusoswa my racing chair is the herman miller embody that slots into the wheel stand 2.0 lol
@@LaurenceDusoswaupgraded to TR160S
Great review, but every time LD puts a powder coated sim equipment on the asphalt/cement for a photo shoot a Panda dies.
Hahahaha I actually did drop one of these on the concrete 😅😅😅
Btw guys you can get this same effect with a tweeter and some fancy calibration
DIY is always cheaper for this stuff. But it's not a seamless experience
HOW MANY BK's are yoU using? thanks
Since adding haptic feedback I’ve become champion of the world, but seriously you’re correct it’s well worth the investment no matter your budget.
Im on console so it goes without saying I’m poor, but found an old stereo and spent $66 on Amazon buying 3 pucks. Ran 2 in series and 1 parallel to match the ohm rating of the amplifier.
Mounted them to my ghetto fabulous F1 GT sim rig (name is probably wrong) but it works and since adding the pucks it’s made a much larger difference than I’d ever anticipated.
Buttkicker wasn’t in me budget but it’s possible to make your own.
Good luck, Guys and that one racer girl who’s reading this.
I know plenty of rich people who love their consoles. I know plenty of poor people on PC too :)
So laurance what your really suggesting is have these and motion..
Yesssss. If you can afford it… I’m odd about motion though. Most systems have WAYYYY too much latency for my liking. They’re great fun but don’t add to the driving experience for me.
I'm lucky enough to have both plus Sim3d rumble motors on my pedals and for bang for your buck a transducer mounted directly to your seat should be the first choice. I run 4x150mm actuators via SRS software and latency isn't something I've personally noticed. The experience of everything together is fantastic and they all add something to the other.
@@LaurenceDusoswa That might be because you have tryed systems in situtations where they want to impress you and audience with huge amount of travel. Only little bit of movement is needed.
How does windows handle multiple active sound devices?? AFAIK this is one of windows limitations and sole reason why some music producers used macs. It was impossible to keep both active at time, eventhough one was a midi controler with a soundcard and the other was external soundcard with speakers attached to it. Not so fun times as i remember.
It is no issue, i run both headåhone with monitor and at times vr. Got 4 bass shakers, two buttkicker mini lfe running iracing lfe with a cheap nobsound amp/soundcard and two daytons (simhub) running out of the green headphonejack back at the computer. No issues whatsoever, win10 before now win 11
@@robinferdinando4038 noice. i guess simhub managed to hack its way arround it - the way windows interprets audio at hardware levels.
i cant even explain properly as its complicated, but the jist was that they somehow wanted to remove the option to directly record audio - for ripping an piracy reasons, so the ASIO drivers for sound were somewhat limited to only using one phisical address at a time - windows hw limitation. Thats one of the reasons why windows still keeps an option to select only ONE audio device at a time when you click the speaker and choose one (monitor thru hdmi, headphones on usb, etc. ) but not two. Lets say a roland synth and a external usb soundcard to which my speakers were attached. also loosing some functionality with it but yeah.. 1st world problems :D
I stoped producing and started to sim race. And these were the first addon i had in mind as full on motion for my rig is not an option for now.
you say you recommend to attach it directly to your seat. How come people buy 4 and attach it to each corner of their rig, is that bad?
If your rig is solid, you won’t be able to feel the various corners properly unless you can run them at crazy power. If it’s wood or something then fine. But from my experience, it’s easy to assume which corner is causing the issue if you’re braking, accelerating, etc based on the car you’re driving. Getting the feedback is important. Where it comes from, for me, is not a concern and doesn’t take away from immersion.
Is this any different from a bass transducer and simhub combo?
Similar. It’s just a variation of a similar concept. It’s just more polished and easier for most people to install and manage
@@LaurenceDusoswa thanks! I would love to understand how this productization sets itself apart from DIY solutions, spec wise
worth upgrading G29 to DD or getting buttkicker?
buttkicker has a bigger impact in my opinion
Can you get this to work on PS5?
How would you compare it to a motion system like a NJMotion Compact R?!... Doesnt motion adds the same information and more than a BK?!... I had a BK2 and didn't like it...
I love motion for fun. But it doesn’t make you quicker or tell you things that you don’t already know. Sure, it does some haptic stuff. But not as well as the ButtKicker devices
Hi i am using haptic software from buttkicker but ets2 when i click on the setting in haptic software it says i need to enable telemetry but i dont know how
there's a simhub discord. It might help to ask there
This can be done DIY for 150 bucks!
yep. I believe i mentioned that
@@LaurenceDusoswa My bad. Thanks for the vid. A buttkicker in any form is well worth the investment!!!
Can you buy the new amplifier and use it with the Buttkicker Gamer 2?
Yes but the amp hasn't changed much from the old version other than digital readouts if you were already using dedicated sound out and not game sound. Big difference is the USB, connection on Transducer and the BK software.
@@keyserni im on Ps5 and it is really confusing to get the Gamer 2 to work on Ps5 and use a USB dongle headset at the same time, as the moment you connect a USB dongle headset, it cut out all audio on other PS5 ports, so that is the reason I am wondering about the new amplifier and usb port
I’m not sure about console compatibility but there are guides out there that seem pretty straight forward. I guess you’ve tried those
Is it worth getting only 1 for iracing?
Yes 100%! And just tweak it to give you only the things that give the most value. Like if you struggle with abs, just focus on that. Always turn on the gear shift feedback because it’s awesome. Rear wheel slip is always a good one too.
Can it work with a PS5.?
The way to describe a buttkicker ....is having fizzy drink....without a buttkicker is like having a fizzy drink gone flat
Well, i guess it doesn't matter for me either way since i use my ps5 and vr2 😮💨
This will work with ps5. Just not quite as well as with PC
It does? If it does, even if it's not as good as pc, I would love to get one. Does it plug in directly to the PS5? I use a diy rig but I'm looking at getting something better so I'd like to get both at the same time. Thank you for your response.
Does it work with ps5? I'm using a wireless headset (arctis pro wireless)
I’m no expert but there are ways to make it work on console
@@LaurenceDusoswa okay, quick question. Will you have a giveaway for this one as well (missed out on your last giveaway) 😁❤️
@@Robbe1984I wont unfortunately :D
@@LaurenceDusoswa it's too good (and expensive)
Mine was fun while it lasted but it started to rattle badly after 6 months
The internals? Ah that sucks. Did you contact them to get a replacement?
what is the best software to get the most out of this buttkicker?
Simhub works great for me
Gold dust is easier to find In the UK than one of these or they cost the earth !!!
yep it's really strange. You'd think they'd be selling LOTS through resellers in the UK
@@LaurenceDusoswamanaged to get one off eBay mate 😊
why is the amazon site in german? 5:53min
When I order within the EU, I use Amazon.de. I’m in Ireland so also in the EU. But for smaller things I use Amazon UK because it’s usually a lot quicker :)
@@LaurenceDusoswa OK...i thought you can read German ...or you come from Germany
Anyone got a work around for these to work on ps5?
does this work on console?
way cheaper to buy 50e speakers and another 80e for amp
Yep, covered that in the video :)
Will this work with Forza Motorsports on Xbox?
no, not the way it works on pc. There's no telemetry info coming through
@@thijsazerty692 ok so Forza Motorsports on PC works?
We're not using sim hardware to trick our brain into thinking that what we're playing is real, but to get more information that will help us go faster.
Most people are looking for realism so most are just trying to recreate the real life feeling. But on my rig I do focus on the info available and how to maximise the use of that data, EVEN if it doesn’t simulate real life. So steering wheel rotations, ffb settings, haptics, lights, spotter/crewchief, etc. So I don’t think you’re necessarily disagreeing with me in the grand scheme of things
realism just waiting for that full dive vr rig.
defo gonna die with dirt 2 on this one
Buttkicker is good untill you have a problem the customer service to terrible no back up support or spare parts at all
Really? Good to know
You: "Hello, I can't feel my butt anymore"
Them: "If this is a medical emergency, please hang up and dial 911"
It would therefore be good now if you could try this product .... " 4 Corner Shaker Kit: 100W " of the company "slip-angle" 😃
edit: Big thanks to youtube for the censorship on internet links.... more than 6 times to type this post👎
The biggest problem is these buttkickers use the audio to make the rumble, right? I want something that uses the Forcefeedback signal.. i mean, instead of sending the suspension thru the wheel, send it thru the buttkicker. This way it would be awesome. I use a playseat challenge on a 5Nm DD wheel, and it feels great, since the DD wheel rumbles the seat making it feel the suspensionbumps. So i was looking to get a real buttkicker, but it looks like they use audio as signal in, which is worthless, since you cant send the suspension thru your hearing :)
You haven’t watched the video at all I think. The software sends only the car data to the ButtKickers. It uses AN audio signal. Not the same one as your headphones use. I state this very clearly early on in the video and throughout the software sections.
@@LaurenceDusoswa well, then a video is too drawn out i tend to skip just to get to the point, which i clearly missed. ok
@@AndrewTSq sure… blame the video. Thanks for watching months of work condensed into less than 20 minutes, skipping most of it and then offering your own conclusions in the comments.
That's a silly question. 300$ solution versus $5000+ setup.
Haptic: Very immersive. Buttkicker can achieve that. Go for PRO if you can.
Haptic + Motion: Very, very immersive.
Both together: Incredibly immersive.
This debate is a bit pointless. Buy what you can afford.